Amati

British Dinghies sold in the USA & the sinking $

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Being that there are a cool boats manufactured in Britain sold in the USA (advertised here even:)), what effect on pricing, short term or long term will we see with the sinking $ from importers over here?  Over the last few months, the $ vs the pound has gone from bumping around 1.2 to today at 1.4+, which for a Pound 8800 (sorry, no pound sign on my keyboard) boat is an increase of nearly $2,000.  Not inconsequential.   Any words of comfort?  

(Besides stuff that belongs over on PA.........:lol:)

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If you think a small imported dinghy is getting expensive just look at the price of the latest cell phones that no one can live without. It is all about priorities. Go sailing and forget the cost. The VALUE of any sailing experience cannot be measured. Enjoy!

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With the US stock market making good gains in the last six months and employment number getting better, it will have to show up in the exchange rates by Summer. Either way I will be sailing and putting away a few bucks every week, just in case I find a great deal on an Aero someday.

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2 hours ago, Eddie_E said:

With the US stock market making good gains in the last six months and employment number getting better, it will have to show up in the exchange rates by Summer. Either way I will be sailing and putting away a few bucks every week, just in case I find a great deal on an Aero someday.

Typically a sinking dollar is coupled to a buoyant stack market. So you can't win.

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17 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Typically a sinking dollar is coupled to a buoyant stack market. So you can't win.

Typically?  Trump said early in the campaign he'd be happy with 15% inflation.  Typical....

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Anybody have a list of US dinghy manufacturers?

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12 minutes ago, Amati said:

Anybody have a list of US dinghy manufacturers?

.....here's a comprehensive list...........

 

 

 

 

 

,..... your welcome.   <;~}

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5 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

.....here's a comprehensive list...........

 

 

 

 

 

,..... your welcome.   <;~}

Thankyou......hilarity ensues!

 

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1 minute ago, fastyacht said:

Right off the top of my head, dinghies that are built in the US include:

UFO
Windmill

Thistle

Lighning

Flying Scot

 

I took delivery of a US built I14 a couple months ago...

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13 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I took delivery of a US built I14 a couple months ago...

Oh and the canoe too of course. Duh!

I'm sure there are many more. Basically every legacy class has some few boats built every year here. So scows, of all stripes, local one design or class boats (Town class for instance) etc etc.

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For example, are the Melges 14 made in Zenda, or overseas?

Hard to figure out on the web-

the reason I’m interested is with the US dollar looking like it’s going to be fluctuating, if you’re looking to purchasea boat in the future, how do you budget?  Which boat, if you live in the Sailing Sticks, and find it difficult or impossible to demo one, do you go with?

Assume the Melges 14 is built in the US (a big if these days): one of the issues in these forums has been over what made the Melges worth more $$ than the Aero.  

Assume the Aero is being supplied from Britain to the USA.  And then assume the conversion rate goes from 1.2 to 1.5, pound to buck,  which at least narrows the gap a lot- does that change the conversation?  The decision?  

How much does the conversion rate mess with K1 or VX Evo cost?   

Talking down the dollar has real effects...

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46 minutes ago, Amati said:

For example, are the Melges 14 made in Zenda, or overseas?

Hard to figure out on the web-

the reason I’m interested is with the US dollar looking like it’s going to be fluctuating, if you’re looking to purchasea boat in the future, how do you budget?  Which boat, if you live in the Sailing Sticks, and find it difficult or impossible to demo one, do you go with?

Assume the Melges 14 is built in the US (a big if these days): one of the issues in these forums has been over what made the Melges worth more $$ than the Aero.  

Assume the Aero is being supplied from Britain to the USA.  And then assume the conversion rate goes from 1.2 to 1.5, pound to buck,  which at least narrows the gap a lot- does that change the conversation?  The decision?  

How much does the conversion rate mess with K1 or VX Evo cost?   

Talking down the dollar has real effects...

I have no idea what the fluctuations in the exchange rater are going to do to the price of an RS Aero in the US. How much of the cost is labor, materials, builder profit, dealer profit, shipping etc. etc? Where do the raw materials come from and what is that country's exchange rate doing? If building boats in England becomes uncompetitive on the international market, would RS Sailing move the manufacture offshore?  Way too many variables.

But if you are worried that the price of an RS Aero might go up, then the obvious solution is to buy one NOW.

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Selling windows, taxes, and availability of product lead to a lot of balls in the air -  for example, on the West Coast Sailing site, it doesn’t look like Aeros are even available, so the question of price looms again....

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

Selling windows, taxes, and availability of product lead to a lot of balls in the air -  for example, on the West Coast Sailing site, it doesn’t look like Aeros are even available, so the question of price looms again....

The website says they are running low or out of stock on RS Aeros and to call them. So call them. They must have been selling RS Aeros too fast out there on the west coast.

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53 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

breRSxit

LOL.

Who knows what Brexit will do to pound/dollar exchange rates, not to mention US/UK trade relations in general and how that might affect supply of British built dinghies.

Although I did see the US President on TV last week saying that he thinks that the British Prime Minister likes him a lot and that he predicts a "tremendous" increase in UK-US trade.

So that's all good... isn't it?

I look forward to seeing a tremendous increase in US imports of RS Aeros.

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13 hours ago, tillerman said:


Although I did see the US President on TV last week saying that he thinks that the British Prime Minister likes him a lot

That's nice. Plenty in her party don't like her at all. PM is not a directly elected role and if they've lost the confidence of their party they can be removed, as happened to Thatcher. Don't count on her remaining PM for very long.

If building boats in England becomes uncompetitive on the international market, would RS Sailing move the manufacture offshore?

Huh? The pound is not rising. The dollar is falling against all other major currencies. It's a correction, it has been significantly overvalued for some time.

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5 hours ago, dogwatch said:

That's nice. Plenty in her party don't like her at all. PM is not a directly elected role and if they've lost the confidence of their party they can be removed, as happened to Thatcher. Don't count on her remaining PM for very long.

 

 

Huh? The pound is not rising. The dollar is falling against all other major currencies. It's a correction, it has been significantly overvalued for some time.

Yep.

See my statement about stock market above.
 

 

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16 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Yep.

See my statement about stock market above.
 

 

People don’t want to buy the US dollar? 

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

People don’t want to buy the US dollar? 

It goes up and down depending on:

current account, Fed reserve actions, Treasury actions, international trade...lots of things.
But when the dollar is sinking, the stock market is buoyant. The most outstanding example being the devaluations carried out under the Obama treasury, with Bernanke coordinating monetary policy to sop up the Treasury debt (TARP etc) (QE1, QE2 etc).  over 95% of the movement in the market in 2009 was currency. The actual trade-based movement in valuation was less than 5% and was essentially "in the noise."

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What happened to sailing in the US? I mean, I'm a big fan of RS Sailing, and just bought an RS Cat 14, but it sure would be nice if I could buy the same or similar boat here in the U.S. I mean, waiting for an April delivery on a boat ordered last year? No fault of the distributor - they're great. It's just that it has to come on a tanker with a bunch of other boat deliveries to make the shipping cost worthwhile for the distributor. Anyway, I wish more people in the U.S. sailed small adventurous boats instead of those boring wine-cheese-and-caviar yachts.

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24 minutes ago, DTA said:

What happened to sailing in the US? I mean, I'm a big fan of RS Sailing, and just bought an RS Cat 14, but it sure would be nice if I could buy the same or similar boat here in the U.S. I mean, waiting for an April delivery on a boat ordered last year? No fault of the distributor - they're great. It's just that it has to come on a tanker with a bunch of other boat deliveries to make the shipping cost worthwhile for the distributor. Anyway, I wish more people in the U.S. sailed small adventurous boats instead of those boring wine-cheese-and-caviar yachts.

Thread drift but that's the $1,000,000 question! 

It's been discussed and debated so many times. In my opinion access to good sailing locations suitable to safely launch and retrieve small dinghy's is a growing problem, especially for those of living in areas that do not have sailing clubs nearby.

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1 hour ago, DTA said:

I wish more people in the U.S. sailed small adventurous boats instead of those boring wine-cheese-and-caviar yachts.

DTA - I share that sentiment. But in my case, it's because I'm committed to the RS Aero, and the more that other sailors in my part of the country buy RS Aeros and come and race them in local fleets and regattas, the more fun it is for me.

But why do you want more people in the U.S. to sail small adventurous boats? From what I can gather from your online postings you get your kicks from blasting around on your own in the surf in your RS Aero or RS700 on Corpus Christi Bay. Do you need other people sailing those boats to make it more fun for you? Or are you more interested in racing those boats against other owners of the same boats than I thought?

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49 minutes ago, tillerman said:

DTA - I share that sentiment. But in my case, it's because I'm committed to the RS Aero, and the more that other sailors in my part of the country buy RS Aeros and come and race them in local fleets and regattas, the more fun it is for me.

But why do you want more people in the U.S. to sail small adventurous boats? From what I can gather from your online postings you get your kicks from blasting around on your own in the surf in your RS Aero or RS700 on Corpus Christi Bay. Do you need other people sailing those boats to make it more fun for you? Or are you more interested in racing those boats against other owners of the same boats than I thought?

Surfers like to surf with other surfers but rarely compete. The same is true for skiing, snowboarding, biking, paragliding etc. Peer groups don't always mean competition.

DRC

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+1 Dave

Racing small boats is great BUT simply getting out and blasting around can be even better for many.

Same for skiing. I could care less about racing (Alpine, Nordic or randonee) but simply getting out and sliding downhill on snow is great.

Again, thread drift, but maybe the expectation (perhaps too strong of a word...) that the only way to enjoy small sailboats is to race is one of the "problems" in decline of small boat sailing?

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Just now, Alan Crawford said:

+1 Dave

Racing small boats is great BUT simply getting out and blasting around can be even better for many.

Same for skiing. I could care less about racing (Alpine, Nordic or randonee) but simply getting out and sliding downhill on snow is great.

Again, thread drift, but maybe the expectation (perhaps too strong of a word...) that the only way to enjoy small sailboats is to race is one of the "problems" in decline of small boat sailing?

Good points Alan and Dave. I totally get it. I used to ski a lot but was never into racing.

And those of us who like to race small boats sometimes forget that not every owner of similar boats feels the same way about racing.

In fact, there are a lot of RS Aero owners who like to blast around on their boats and are not much into racing (if at all.) 

Perhaps there should be more events where dinghy sailors can enjoy a sail together without it always being a race?

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TM - didn't intend to come across negative towards your point of view.  Just wanted to build on Dave's comment. 

I see skiing and small boat sailing having some parallels, perhaps since I enjoy both. I wonder if there are lessons to be learned in both activities that can help the other. I'm no ski industry expert but know that in most segments there is at least stagnant growth (or even decline) but there is one area showing pretty good growth - backcountry skiing. Are there any parallels with small boat sailing? Maybe.

BC skiing does require some specialized gear and specialized safety education (avalanche safety; route finding, etc) BUT it eliminates the need for one to have access to a ski resort to play in the snow. Parallel with easier access to water to enable safe launch and retrieval of small sail boats and to avoid the usually high costs associated with yacht clubs? BC skiing access, at least in the western USA, is on US Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management or National Park Service land so we've already "Paid" for that via taxes.

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1 minute ago, Alan Crawford said:

TM - didn't intend to come across negative towards your point of view.  Just wanted to build on Dave's comment. 

I see skiing and small boat sailing having some parallels, perhaps since I enjoy both. I wonder if there are lessons to be learned in both activities that can help the other. I'm no ski industry expert but know that in most segments there is at least stagnant growth (or even decline) but there is one area showing pretty good growth - backcountry skiing. Are there any parallels with small boat sailing? Maybe.

BC skiing does require some specialized gear and specialized safety education (avalanche safety; route finding, etc) BUT it eliminates the need for one to have access to a ski resort to play in the snow. Parallel with easier access to water to enable safe launch and retrieval of small sail boats and to avoid the usually high costs associated with yacht clubs? BC skiing access, at least in the western USA, is on US Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management or National Park Service land so we've already "Paid" for that via taxes.

It didn't come across negatively at all. Far from it. I think you are on to something...
.

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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

DTA - 
But why do you want more people in the U.S. to sail small adventurous boats? From what I can gather from your online postings you get your kicks from blasting around on your own in the surf in your RS Aero or RS700 on Corpus Christi Bay. Do you need other people sailing those boats to make it more fun for you? Or are you more interested in racing those boats against other owners of the same boats than I thought?

Not for sailing buddies. Yeah, I'm a "friendly" hermit sailor, meaning - I'm happy to sail with someone if I meet them out on the water, but I'm not going to go out of my way to sail with others. No - my interest in more sailing activity is SO I CAN BUY A DAMN BOAT LOCALLY AND HAVE IT SERVICED LOCALLY!!! Corpus Christi is a sailing dreamland for goodness sake. There ought to be an RS Sailing retail shop there, along with half-a-dozen competitors all trying to sell the local sailing population on the latest and coolest dinghies and catamarans. *THAT'S* why I want more people to sail. And as it relates to the original post - then there would be no more hand-wringing over exchange rates.

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37 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

Surfers like to surf with other surfers but rarely compete. The same is true for skiing, snowboarding, biking, paragliding etc. Peer groups don't always mean competition.

DRC

Yeah, that sums me up perfectly re sailing. But again - a robust U.S. sailing ecosystem would be nice, not just to meet others out on the water through happenstance, but to get good deals locally and have a wealth of options from which to choose.

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41 minutes ago, Alan Crawford said:

+1 Dave

Racing small boats is great BUT simply getting out and blasting around can be even better for many.

Same for skiing. I could care less about racing (Alpine, Nordic or randonee) but simply getting out and sliding downhill on snow is great.

Again, thread drift, but maybe the expectation (perhaps too strong of a word...) that the only way to enjoy small sailboats is to race is one of the "problems" in decline of small boat sailing?

Great observations Alan. While racing is important it will not grow or even sustain the sport. Seascape recognized this and all its boats are aimed towards family sailing with an emphasis on fun. That includes the new dinghy which while fast is designed to be easy to sail and have good stability. With almost 500 boats sold in a few years I think the sailing community agrees. Racing is also becoming more and more expensive with demands for equipment and rating certificates which further discourages racing. Instead go for a downwind blast and post on sailingrecord.com for bragging rights or perhaps arrange a weekend raid with friends and family.

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Missing in the list of available US built boats: Force 5. And it's even "chined" which is popular again.

Also we're missing a whole product line of bullet-fast scows from Melges.

DRC

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6 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Amati - suggest you contact George at West Coast Sailing directly and ask your question.

I've been trying to get a K1 (I Know- it has a keel!:angry:) over here for a while- I called West Coast Sailing up, they don't carry it,  I then called the US Rondar rep a couple of years ago, and was told flat out 'no', so I got frustrated and creative, and emailed Paul Handley (the designer), who got me in touch with the English distributor, who got me in touch with Paul Young (who runs Rondar).  Which is really neat!  Paul's currently working on price, US trailer/dolly, shipping $$ (looks like Roll on On Roll Off on it's trailer/dolly in a car freighter/transport delivered to Tacoma or Seattle or someplace- DTA?  I don't know it this is an option for you instead of waiting for a dinghy shipment and a long drive- Paul pointed out this would be less $$, and quicker....), exchange rate, availability, etc.   From my current vantage point, it doesn't seem as far off in the future as DTA's #31 RS 14er (..... I'm beginning to understand the GestaltB)), but it's going to take a while, and it is an act of faith in many ways, since I'll be inspecting the boat via Skype, and I've never sailed one, but this is pretty much performance dinghy sailing in the US if we want cool boats.  I'm watching the Pound/US exchange rate go up as all the gears work to make this happen, and I don't know if it will effect the K1, but it's something to watch, and my toy list is long this year :).....

So that's why I'm not calling George (but who knows- if things fall apart?), but the situation got me thinking about the dinghy situation here in the US.  Supposedly we live in this interlinked world where things are easily available from all over,  and the Web makes that at least seem more the case, but reality is a bit different-   Maybe it's because this is a niche micro underground market?

I really hold that anyone who believes enough in sailing small boats to build and sell them is doing God's work.  It's a brutally tough racket, made worse by a bunch of crazed sailors looking for a designer fix.  And it's even weirder seeing the shockwave of a couple of guys shooting their mouths off (Mnuchin is one of them) and effecting an industry, world wide.  I've daydreamed that a factory dedicated to taking plywood kits and building them on a one off basis might work (kind of like paying guys to put Ikea stuff together), but one guy (a professional boat builder, no less!) got a Paper Jet (Dudley Dix) kit and spent 200 hours + (or more) finishing it, and at $75/hour, for example, that adds up!

CLC at least used to to that with its own kits, but I don't know if they do that any more.    Wasn't cheap though.

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2 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

Missing in the list of available US built boats: Force 5. And it's even "chined" which is popular again.

Also we're missing a whole product line of bullet-fast scows from Melges.

DRC

I thought Week's got out of the Force 5?  Did they get back in?

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37 minutes ago, Amati said:

I've been trying to get a K1 (I Know- it has a keel!:angry:) over here for a while- I called West Coast Sailing up, they don't carry it,  I then called the US Rondar rep a couple of years ago, and was told flat out 'no', so I got frustrated and creative, and emailed Paul Handley (the designer), who got me in touch with the English distributor, who got me in touch with Paul Young (who runs Rondar).  Which is really neat!  Paul's currently working on price, US trailer/dolly, shipping $$ (looks like Roll on On Roll Off on it's trailer/dolly in a car freighter/transport delivered to Tacoma or Seattle or someplace- DTA?  I don't know it this is an option for you instead of waiting for a dinghy shipment and a long drive- Paul pointed out this would be less $$, and quicker....), exchange rate, availability, etc.   From my current vantage point, it doesn't seem as far off in the future as DTA's #31 RS 14er (..... I'm beginning to understand the GestaltB)), but it's going to take a while, and it is an act of faith in many ways, since I'll be inspecting the boat via Skype, and I've never sailed one, but this is pretty much performance dinghy sailing in the US if we want cool boats.  I'm watching the Pound/US exchange rate go up as all the gears work to make this happen, and I don't know if it will effect the K1, but it's something to watch, and my toy list is long this year :).....

So that's why I'm not calling George (but who knows- if things fall apart?), but the situation got me thinking about the dinghy situation here in the US.  Supposedly we live in this interlinked world where things are easily available from all over,  and the Web makes that at least seem more the case, but reality is a bit different-   Maybe it's because this is a niche micro underground market?

I really hold that anyone who believes enough in sailing small boats to build and sell them is doing God's work.  It's a brutally tough racket, made worse by a bunch of crazed sailors looking for a designer fix.  And it's even weirder seeing the shockwave of a couple of guys shooting their mouths off (Mnuchin is one of them) and effecting an industry, world wide.  I've daydreamed that a factory dedicated to taking plywood kits and building them on a one off basis might work (kind of like paying guys to put Ikea stuff together), but one guy (a professional boat builder, no less!) got a Paper Jet (Dudley Dix) kit and spent 200 hours + (or more) finishing it, and at $75/hour, for example, that adds up!

CLC at least used to to that with its own kits, but I don't know if they do that any more.    Wasn't cheap though.

One way that's worked in the past for orphan boats, is to find a container heading your way for a fleet that is attending a world championships. Like the Brit I14 fleet coming to SF in August.  If they have space....  It does muck up the Carnet though.

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I wouldn’t expect the USD price to change much, despite fluctuations in GBP or any other currency.,

These days, many (most?) of the manufactures utilize US Dollars in significant portions of their bill of materials.
RS takes USD from people like ourselves, and keeps it in USD to pay suppliers in USD in many situations.

So, currency risk is hedged a bit for US customers (ie, the price won’t change a ton despite the various strengths of USD currency compared to others).  This makes a typically very stable boat price.  

Good, since you aren’t ever ‘missing out’ but can also be a negative if you are expecting a 20% reduction in the price of your Aero because of what currency exchange rates have done.

 

That’s how a majority of the dinghy import business works these days, in the US anyway. 

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6 minutes ago, WestCoast said:

I wouldn’t expect the USD price to change much, despite fluctuations in GBP or any other currency.,

These days, many (most?) of the manufactures utilize US Dollars in significant portions of their bill of materials.
RS takes USD from people like ourselves, and keeps it in USD to pay suppliers in USD in many situations.

So, currency risk is hedged a bit for US customers (ie, the price won’t change a ton despite the various strengths of USD currency compared to others).  This makes a typically very stable boat price.  

Good, since you aren’t ever ‘missing out’ but can also be a negative if you are expecting a 20% reduction in the price of your Aero because of what currency exchange rates have done.

 

That’s how a majority of the dinghy import business works these days, in the US anyway. 

Not intuitively obvious-  thanks-

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

I thought Week's got out of the Force 5?  Did they get back in?

Weeks still holds the rights and molds for the F5 (as of about a year ago, anyway). They still have the website up http://force5sailboats.com Not sure if they would actually build a new one for you or not. 

Old F5 hulls are still pretty good when they will dry out light enough. If someone like Nickels would build bagged foam core F5s at min weight demand would go up (or everyone would quit sailing F5s)

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38 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Weeks still holds the rights and molds for the F5 (as of about a year ago, anyway). They still have the website up http://force5sailboats.com Not sure if they would actually build a new one for you or not. 

Old F5 hulls are still pretty good when they will dry out light enough. If someone like Nickels would build bagged foam core F5s at min weight demand would go up (or everyone would quit sailing F5s)

I can get an older Force 5 hull for free, and I have a rig, but I'd like a modern boat.

Brian Weeks was behind the Force 5 at Weeks, and he was working on this little beauty, based on the Force 5, which as far as I know, never made it to fruition.  Too bad....

 

what.jpg

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On 1/27/2018 at 9:29 PM, Amati said:

Contact info & Prices?

I assume Hendo built it in Seattle.. but I could be wrong. Expensive...

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2 hours ago, ASP said:

I assume Hendo built it in Seattle.. but I could be wrong. Expensive...

The blessings of mass production upon you.....

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3 hours ago, ASP said:

I assume Hendo built it in Seattle.. but I could be wrong. Expensive...

He does. And yes, if you think of it as a 14’ boat. If you consider it a work of carbon art, not so much.

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21 hours ago, DTA said:

What happened to sailing in the US? I mean, I'm a big fan of RS Sailing, and just bought an RS Cat 14, but it sure would be nice if I could buy the same or similar boat here in the U.S. I mean, waiting for an April delivery on a boat ordered last year? No fault of the distributor - they're great. It's just that it has to come on a tanker with a bunch of other boat deliveries to make the shipping cost worthwhile for the distributor. Anyway, I wish more people in the U.S. sailed small adventurous boats instead of those boring wine-cheese-and-caviar yachts.

My half baked theory is that mooring fees in populated ocean front areas have pushed the casual mid-sized yacht owners out. I can buy my choice of clean wine and cheese yachts locally for $2500 all day long. It's not hard to find them. It's harder to decide which one. Pearson 26, C&C 25, Catalinas, etc. 

It's a good thing I sail inland with clubs that have 20' limits on boats.

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I'd say that's the problem with waterfront access anywhere. Florida and Southern California used to be mecas of off the beach catamarans and easy access to water for launching lasers and sunfish etc. Now beach access is severely restricted and $2mil+ condo owners don't want their view blocked by sailboat masts. Couple that with the "now now now" culture and you quickly see the problem. I applaud Daves efforts to bring a really cool simple boat to market here in the midst of such challenges. I seriously evaluated the same but in the end decided the cost and risk outweighed the potential reward, so good on Dave for accepting said risk and pushing ahead full steam.

As to selling more cool boats so you have a local retailer, great dream but how many RS Aeros or $10K+ Hobie 16's and $25k F18's can Corpus Christi support? Let me put this another way, when given the choice between buying a brand new Hobie Cat or Laser, or buying a used one for 1/3rd the price PLUS a new Toyota for the family, what choice does the average family really have?

 

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8 hours ago, samc99us said:

I'd say that's the problem with waterfront access anywhere. Florida and Southern California used to be mecas of off the beach catamarans and easy access to water for launching lasers and sunfish etc. Now beach access is severely restricted and $2mil+ condo owners don't want their view blocked by sailboat masts. Couple that with the "now now now" culture and you quickly see the problem. I applaud Daves efforts to bring a really cool simple boat to market here in the midst of such challenges. I seriously evaluated the same but in the end decided the cost and risk outweighed the potential reward, so good on Dave for accepting said risk and pushing ahead full steam.

As to selling more cool boats so you have a local retailer, great dream but how many RS Aeros or $10K+ Hobie 16's and $25k F18's can Corpus Christi support? Let me put this another way, when given the choice between buying a brand new Hobie Cat or Laser, or buying a used one for 1/3rd the price PLUS a new Toyota for the family, what choice does the average family really have?

 

Friends don't let friends buy new Toyotas when they could buy a new RS Aero for a tenth of the price.

taqt7yfbg2mcpphoqfue.pngRS-Aero.jpg

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9 hours ago, samc99us said:

I'd say that's the problem with waterfront access anywhere. Florida and Southern California used to be mecas of off the beach catamarans and easy access to water for launching lasers and sunfish etc. Now beach access is severely restricted and $2mil+ condo owners don't want their view blocked by sailboat masts. Couple that with the "now now now" culture and you quickly see the problem. I applaud Daves efforts to bring a really cool simple boat to market here in the midst of such challenges. I seriously evaluated the same but in the end decided the cost and risk outweighed the potential reward, so good on Dave for accepting said risk and pushing ahead full steam.

As to selling more cool boats so you have a local retailer, great dream but how many RS Aeros or $10K+ Hobie 16's and $25k F18's can Corpus Christi support? Let me put this another way, when given the choice between buying a brand new Hobie Cat or Laser, or buying a used one for 1/3rd the price PLUS a new Toyota for the family, what choice does the average family really have?

 

How many people in corpus don’t pay at least a hundred-bucks a month for cable?  The question is, how do you convince people to put down their iPhones, cancel their cable and get the hell ouside.  For a hundred bucks a month you could step it up to an Evo!

 

 

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Beach access is definitely not an issue in Corpus Christi, nor likely anywhere else in Texas. There's hundreds of miles of sand beach opening directly onto the Gulf of Mexico that's available to the public. Plus, lots and lots of public boat ramps in all the bays. Obviously, the northeast and west coast have their beach access issues, but it just isn't a problem in Texas.

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The issue is the entry point. Low cost membership to a club where you can get started with club boats. At least here in Miami & FL coast that's surprisingly expensive (and I mean access to beaten up optis and sunfish). Even keeping boats near a ramp is expensive and severely limited.

I'd love to help make it easier, but IMO it's a local effort in each place. I was volunteer coach for a few years in Titahi Bay Boat Club (NZ) and we had $60 per season per family memberships. And people definitely came, sailed, got their kids sailing, volunteered, everything. The boats were an assortment of patched up hand-me-downs, but you know what? We had a blast, and TBBC was the first club of a bunch of olympic sailors. What more can you ask for?

Miami has water access and affordable volunteer-based club issues.

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On 1/29/2018 at 9:15 AM, DTA said:

What happened to sailing in the US? I mean, I'm a big fan of RS Sailing, and just bought an RS Cat 14, but it sure would be nice if I could buy the same or similar boat here in the U.S. I mean, waiting for an April delivery on a boat ordered last year? No fault of the distributor - they're great. It's just that it has to come on a tanker with a bunch of other boat deliveries to make the shipping cost worthwhile for the distributor. Anyway, I wish more people in the U.S. sailed small adventurous boats instead of those boring wine-cheese-and-caviar yachts.

Anyone who thinks small adventurous sailing is suffering, us missing something blindingly obvious  to me today, as I sit here in Ventana....

.... . WE are sailing the big boring 'yachts', in relative terms at least.  We are the dinosaurs.  :(.   WINDSPORT IS THRIVING IN THE US AND AROUND THE WORLD LIKE NEVER BEFORE!!!!   KITEBOARDING has pretty massive appeal, with substantial manufacturing base in the US.      Down here in Ventana, Mex ,, just one of the kiteboarding mecca's around the world, it's not uncommon to have... HUNDREDS OF PARTICIPANTS A DAY,. on MANY LOCATIONS AROUND THE WORLD,, people flying in, flying out,, from the US and everywhere else, with their craft as check-in baggage!    Lotsa gray hairs,, lotsa gals... it's quite a different scene from a few old farts tinkering on their trailer burdeoned beasts, fawning over the young guy who's gonna join the fleet... there's literally DOZENS of shops and schools here,, a few doing repairs..... Sailing,,,,, it's time to wake up, evolve, and realize you are a small sleepy part of a greater phenomena of.... WINDSPORT!!

.

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On 09/02/2018 at 5:19 PM, couchsurfer said:

  KITEBOARDING has pretty massive appeal

Numbers around here are well down on a decade ago. 

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Numbers around here are well down on a decade ago. 

Sure, everyone realized how easy it is to jump on a jet, go somewhere nice!   :mellow:

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Going on holiday somewhere warm has always been part of board sports. Nothing new there. It's never going to represent a major proportion of water time because most people just don't get that much holiday. https://www.statista.com/statistics/606772/outdoor-water-sports-activity-by-participation-united-kingdom/ kitesurfing barely registers and as someone with regular sight of a couple of popular board sports beaches, I'm certain the trend in numbers has been down over the last 5 years. I'm sorry to see that, anything that gets people using the wind on the water is good as far as I am concerned. 

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Regarding American made dinghys:

  • Zim builds some of theirs in the U.S. including the Megabyte
  • Windrider (Nickels Boatworks) builds several legacy class dinghys in Flint, MI of all places
  • American Sail, in Charleston, SC builds the Aquafinn. It is a lateen rigged boardboat with some enhancements over the Sunfish though no racing class.

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14 minutes ago, Reardon said:

Regarding American made dinghys:

  • Zim builds some of theirs in the U.S. including the Megabyte
  • Windrider (Nickels Boatworks) builds several legacy class dinghys in Flint, MI of all places
  • American Sail, in Charleston, SC builds the Aquafinn. It is a lateen rigged boardboat with some enhancements over the Sunfish though no racing class.

I'll also add McLaughlin to this list.  Even though it's just optis.

 

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Don't forget Dave Clark's Fulcrum Speedworks where the UFO is built. Also Great Midwest in Ohio for Thistles.

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British dinghy prices seem to be doing better in Canada! Topper Sailboats Canada had this posted on their website. Note these are $C. (Not a big fan of these boats - but the Topper is a better call than a 4.7 IMHO.)

Posted on Friday January 5th, 2018Friday January 5th, 2018 by admin

Down trend Euro currencyDue to the Canada-European Trade Agreement (CETA), duties have been removed on sailboats.  This is excellent news as Toppers boats are made in the United Kingdom which is covered by CETA.

This represents a SUBSTANTIAL SAVINGS.  Here are some sample savings on some of our most popular models:

  Before CETA Now
Europti  $3,456.08 $2,799
Taz Club $3,949.00 $3,499
Topper Club $5,760.13 $4,999
Uno Plus  $6,253.85 $5,599
Race X $7,899.60 $6,999
Argo Sport $14,482.60 $12,799
Omega Sport $16,622.08 $14,699

2017 prices are still in effect for a limited time.  Don’t miss these great savings, call now!

 

 

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1 hour ago, bill4 said:

British dinghy prices seem to be doing better in Canada! Topper Sailboats Canada had this posted on their website. Note these are $C. (Not a big fan of these boats - but the Topper is a better call than a 4.7 IMHO.

Different boats. The weight ranges don't overlap much, most kids that are light enough to be competitive in a Topper will struggle to right a turtled Laser in any breeze and many will struggle with the more powerful rig.

Topper bridges the gap between Oppy and 4.7... not everyone needs that bridge, especially if they mostly get warm, light weather...

I'm not very keen on Toppers... but they have a niche.

Cheers,

                W.

 

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Yes, all UK built boats (RS, LaserPerofrance, Ovington, Topper and whatever else) no longer pay a 9.5% duty on import.

Good news for the builders, but obviously a one off law change, not exchange rate related.
Good news for all UK builders.

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22 hours ago, WestCoast said:

Yes, all UK built boats (RS, LaserPerofrance, Ovington, Topper and whatever else) no longer pay a 9.5% duty on import.

Good news for the builders, but obviously a one off law change, not exchange rate related.
Good news for all UK builders.

That's interesting, when did that occur?

As to Cable favouring you guys you have no fear of that altering for the foreseeable future (short of your man Trump doing something absolutely ridiculous) we have enough City Boys shorting sterling ahead of the pending Brexit date of March of next year to keep the price of Aero's well within your reach an120.d in the immediate aftermath of Brexit we will be in a pickle until the Government wakes up to lots of the practical applications of Border controls they haven't even begun to think about yet.

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2 hours ago, G.R.F. said:

That's interesting, when did that occur?

As to Cable favouring you guys you have no fear of that altering for the foreseeable future (short of your man Trump doing something absolutely ridiculous) we have enough City Boys shorting sterling ahead of the pending Brexit date of March of next year to keep the price of Aero's well within your reach an120.d in the immediate aftermath of Brexit we will be in a pickle until the Government wakes up to lots of the practical applications of Border controls they haven't even begun to think about yet.

When did that occur?

The post from bill4 with the quoted prices from Topper Sailboats Canada referred to CETA. This is the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement between Canada, the European Union  and its member states. Substantial parts of it came into effect on September 2017.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement for more details.

I may be confused or wrong or other wise delusional but I think it applies to boats imported into Canada from any member state of the EU. (Are there any other major dinghy builders in Europe, other than the UK?)

So it apparently does not mean any change for British dinghies sold in the USA (the original topic of this thread.) Is that right?

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12 minutes ago, tillerman said:


So it apparently does not mean any change for British dinghies sold in the USA (the original topic of this thread.) Is that right?

I was going to ask that, so unless you have some reciprocal cross boarder arrangement with Canada I imagine it wouldn't, but the fact is since the Brexit result sterling lost around 15% which is bad news if you are in my game which is importing stuff into the UK from you guys or the EU. However there are talks of a post Brexit trade arrangement with Trump saying we're 'head of the queue' providing Tessa drops her knickers no doubt..;)

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Sorry if my reply wasn’t 100% specific.  Yes, this duty change has nothing to do with the US.

CETA and the corresponding change in Duty applies to UK built boats sold to Canada only.

 

**There is still a 1.5% duty for UK built boats sold in the USA.

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57 minutes ago, tillerman said:


 ... boats imported into Canada from any member state of the EU. (Are there any other major dinghy builders in Europe, other than the UK?)
...

Blueblue (Poland) and Winner (Denmark) spring to mind... I would be very surprised if there are not more. Bic (France) used to make small boats, probably in Europe... and it seems likely that there are more French built boats that I've never  heard of...

Cheers, 

               W.  

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17 minutes ago, WestCoast said:

Sorry if my reply wasn’t 100% specific.  Yes, this duty change has nothing to do with the US.

CETA and the corresponding change in Duty applies to UK built boats sold to Canada only.

 

**There is still a 1.5% duty for UK built boats sold in the USA.

West Coast,

Will this 1.5% reduction in duty be passed down to buyers of new boats, or is this just something that goes into the pockets of the manufacturers?

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Looper:  Nothing has changed on the US side for Duty.  

In addition, I believe all dealers (ourselves anyway), just eat the duty charge and don’t pass it on to customers as a line item.  Cost of doing business for us.

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