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Having just read this entire thread all I have read is everyone chipping in about what hardware and what  e charts they prefer. Here is a little challenge for you all. Search the difference between ECs and ENCs. 

Have fun!

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

With such limited knowledge, why bother replying?

It annoys Bob.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Having just read this entire thread all I have read is everyone chipping in about what hardware and what  e charts they prefer. Here is a little challenge for you all. Search the difference between ECs and ENCs. 

Have fun!

I just get mine from whatever repository has the latest stash that works with OpenCPN. There's not a lot to run into down here.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I just get mine from whatever repository has the latest stash that works with OpenCPN. There's not a lot to run into down here.

FKT

As you know we have plenty to run into up here but it is mostly soft. But Moreton bay has just been resurveyed by 96 etchells and about 50 coach boats.

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Just now, LB 15 said:

As you know we have plenty to run into up here but it is mostly soft. But Moreton bay has just been resurveyed by 96 etchells and about 50 coach boats.

I've always thought that crowdsourcing bathymetric data would be a good idea but given how few people have even half a clue, not sure if I'd want to rely on it. Well, not without a decent 'bugger factor' built in.

Yeah I know it's being done in places.

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I've always thought that crowdsourcing bathymetric data would be a good idea but given how few people have even half a clue, not sure if I'd want to rely on it. Well, not without a decent 'bugger factor' built in.

Yeah I know it's being done in places.

FKT

Agreed - it is certainly the future but there is a lot of trust in the sounder offset information on sonar charts. Most clowns up here sail around with the offset about a metre below their keel. For some odd reason they think not knowing the actual true depth is somehow 'safer'. 

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Just now, LB 15 said:

Agreed - it is certainly the future but there is a lot of trust in the sounder offset information on sonar charts. Most clowns up here sail around with the offset about a metre below their keel. For some odd reason they think not knowing the actual true depth is somehow 'safer'. 

Yep and how many are logging using UT+0 as their time so you don't have to fuck with correcting for local time, daylight saving (not that a Queenslander would know about such a thing) etc? You really need lat, long, time and depth to be useful. Transducer offset from the surface should be in the setup.

Did quite a lot of this on transit to/from Antarctica. We used to run a slightly different course each time to build up a bit more data. Big echosounder capable of pinging the bottom in over 5000m of water.

I've seen the newer swathe mappers in action. *Nice* toys.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yep and how many are logging using UT+0 as their time so you don't have to fuck with correcting for local time, daylight saving (not that a Queenslander would know about such a thing) etc? You really need lat, long, time and depth to be useful. Transducer offset from the surface should be in the setup.

Did quite a lot of this on transit to/from Antarctica. We used to run a slightly different course each time to build up a bit more data. Big echosounder capable of pinging the bottom in over 5000m of water.

I've seen the newer swathe mappers in action. *Nice* toys.

FKT

Was chating to a guy testing a water drone mounted depth sounder on the river the other day. His idea is that it can be sent ahead of the mothership. Kind of like a 21st century row boat with lead line. Pretty cool concept I thought. 

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

Was chating to a guy testing a water drone mounted depth sounder on the river the other day. His idea is that it can be sent ahead of the mothership. Kind of like a 21st century row boat with lead line. Pretty cool concept I thought. 

Agree. I've wanted to do a micro-scale map of my mudflats complete with current flow. One of these days when I'm bored.

Already screwed with the longshore drift to build myself a beach so I can keep my dinghy there. I have a hankering for a small island (ok flyspeck islet) next. If I have good data on where to put it I might be able to screw with the wave refraction as well and eventually form a tombolo.

Doubt I'll live long enough to see the end result but I can't do it the quick & dirty way nowadays.

FKT

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Apart from logs, whales and just about every fishing boat on earth. Back when I was plying my trade as a sailing instructor in the UK, I crossed the English channel 76 times. No AIS, no GPS and I didn't die once. Gods gift to navigators is a body of knowledge and common sense, not the latest shinny toy. You do know that AIS cannot be used for collision avoidance only watch keeping I trust...

I don’t quite get the distinction: I had thought collision avoidance was one of the roles of watch keeping, silly me.  Nevertheless I can always aspire to a better body.

Here’s something that only AIS can do: I had enough space to cross ahead of one ship till it showed me another vessel hidden behind the first one, which would have put me in a pickle.  Most fishing vessels over here do seem to use it now. 

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Just now, Mr. Ed said:

I don’t quite get the distinction: I had thought collision avoidance was one of the roles of watch keeping, silly me.  Nevertheless I can always aspire to a better body.

Here’s something that only AIS can do: I had enough space to cross ahead of one ship till it showed me another vessel hidden behind the first one, which would have put me in a pickle.  Most fishing vessels over here do seem to use it now. 

Watch keeping is keeping a lookout. Collision avoidance is making decisions about taking action to avoid a collision. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great innovation, but the reliance I am seeing people putting on it is very, very troubling. It is definitely adding to the culture of 'Nintendo navigation'. Not all craft have it and never will. Like anything it is fallible. The widespread use of AIS phone apps is horrifying. When I point this out to some of my more ignorant students they often respond with 'It should be compulsory!' With the greatest respect, a good and proper visual lookout would have shown you the other ship. I can not understand how the second ship could have remained hidden continuously unless you were traveling at a speed close to that of the ship, particularly if you were passing a safe distance ahead.

Image result for hill street blues let's be careful out there

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9 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Watch keeping is keeping a lookout. Collision avoidance is making decisions about taking action to avoid a collision. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great innovation, but the reliance I am seeing people putting on it is very, very troubling. It is definitely adding to the culture of 'Nintendo navigation'. Not all craft have it and never will. Like anything it is fallible. The widespread use of AIS phone apps is horrifying. When I point this out to some of my more ignorant students they often respond with 'It should be compulsory!' With the greatest respect, a good and proper visual lookout would have shown you the other ship. I can not understand how the second ship could have remained hidden continuously unless you were traveling at a speed close to that of the ship, particularly if you were passing a safe distance ahead.

Image result for hill street blues let's be careful out there

The closer ship must have been travelling faster for the further one remained hidden for some time. We altered course and took both sterns. 

Oh and I do dislike it when people keep their heads glued to the gadgetry instead of being “in the environment” so I’m with you there.

 

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Ed said:

The closer ship must have been travelling faster for the further one remained hidden for some time. We altered course and took both sterns. 

Oh and I do dislike it when people keep their heads glued to the gadgetry instead of being “in the environment” so I’m with you there.

 

Fair enough. Crossing the channel is like trying to cross the M25 at times. Are you on the South coast?

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Essex based but the boat’s in the West of Ireland now, and usually full of Australians. Mrs Ed is a Sydney girl so we have an endless flow of gorgeous nieces and eccentric aunts. 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

The widespread use of AIS phone apps is horrifying. When I point this out to some of my more ignorant students they often respond with 'It should be compulsory!' 

Scare the fuck out of them with phone GPS's being "spoofed". Maybe not use Cook as your example though.

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So ... who or what gave you a hard day, LB?

17 hours ago, LB 15 said:

With such limited knowledge, why bother replying?

 

17 hours ago, LB 15 said:

And don't forget there could be a Zombie Apocalypse. You really have no idea do you?

 

17 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Apart from logs, whales and just about every fishing boat on earth. Back when I was plying my trade as a sailing instructor in the UK, I crossed the English channel 76 times. No AIS, no GPS and I didn't die once. Gods gift to navigators is a body of knowledge and common sense, not the latest shinny toy. You do know that AIS cannot be used for collision avoidance only watch keeping I trust...

 

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48 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

So ... who or what gave you a hard day, LB?

 

 

 

Yeah, but we talked him down. And he's not as bad as he seems. Remember he's Australian - their mother's milk is a diet of tough love titrated into an emulsion of mystical matehood. It took me a while to get used to - especially if you're English over there, it can seem they're giving you a hard time, when they don't mean it at all. Best thing Mrs. Ed did when we got together was to give me a copy of Peter Carey's Illywhacker as an introduction to 20th Century (yes, I know) Australia. 

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I got a NMEA 2000 to WiFi device this week and installed it, which has made me re-evaluate software options on the iPad.  Sorry for the distraction away from OpenCPN.

Here are my quick observations:

  • SeaIQ is a pretty great for $5.  That gets you quilted NOAA maps, good NMEA data displays, nice AIS.  Tides and current display aren't so great, mostly it wants you to also have installed AyeTides ($7) and it will run that when you click on a tide station.  There is no way to get readtime tide/current like you do with Navionics.  It's free for one week trial.
  • iNavX is really overpriced.  It is $15 on sale for the base software, then you need to spend $20 to get NOAA raster maps in a quilted fashion (unquilted are free, but really annoying to deal with).  Navionics charts through it are $90/year!  In comparison the same charts running in the Navionics app are only $15/year.  Tides and currents are no better than SeaIQ.  I feel like I wasted $35 in checking it out.  No trial period like SeaIQ.
  • iRegatta 2 is interesting looking, but full of typos which doesn't give me a lot of confidence in it's functionality.  Requires you to buy charts from Transas, and they aren't available offline.  It might be worth it for start line stuff, but isn't really useful for navigation.
  • Navionics is still pretty cheap and functional, but can't do anything with boat NMEA.
  • Aquamap is also pretty cheap ($15/year for US+Canada) and has the closest thing that I've seen to DeepZoom graphics for currents.  

Am I missing any good ones?

DeepZoom.com is the best display of tides and currents and I'm not sure why it hasn't been copied by any of these developers.  

This is the device that I'm using, and it was really easy to setup: https://www.amazon.com/Yacht-Devices-DeviceNet-Gateway-Connector/dp/B07BHKTDW3/

We have a Raymarine plotter down below, but not available in the cockpit, and use the iPad in the cockpit on distance races or when cruising.

 

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I picked up a Raymarine a78 MFD/GPS for a really stupid low price yesterday...I am happy. (mass factory refurb special)

 

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Yeah, they also have the es78 for great pricing.  I just don't really have a good place to put a plotter in our cockpit without cutting a hole into one of the bulkheads, and I'm not excited by that. 

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

So ... who or what gave you a hard day, LB?

 

 

 

Just another day at the office. 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Just another day at the office. 

And of course, that's the problem - you should have been out on the water.

Never mind, the tide will come back in.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

And of course, that's the problem - you should have been out on the water.

Never mind, the tide will come back in.

FKT

My problem is that I have spent far too much time out on the water (and away from the family) lately, and over the past 25 years. To be honest most sailing bores me senseless these days except for racing or cruising with the family. This weekend the child bride and I are racing on the POGO with shaggy. It is the french yacht challenge were we get to beat up on a bunch of Beneteau's crewed by people in red and white striped shirts and berets. We are dressing as the rainbow warrior frogmen.

It is going to be a hoot!

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

My problem is that I have spent far too much time out on the water (and away from the family) lately, and over the past 25 years. To be honest most sailing bores me senseless these days except for racing or cruising with the family. This weekend the child bride and I are racing on the POGO with shaggy. It is the french yacht challenge were we get to beat up on a bunch of Beneteau's crewed by people in red and white striped shirts and berets. We are dressing as the rainbow warrior frogmen.

It is going to be a hoot!

Enjoy.

Got to admit that my sailing plans extend from here to Bruny Island and back, and there's a mooring I can borrow over in Barnes Bay so I don't have to bother getting the anchor wet. I've a choice of 3 moorings out the front of my place and another in Prince of Wales Bay up town.

I thoroughly enjoy playing with boats & building boat bits but long distance travel in a small one, after spending many years going places and getting paid for it, well, not so sure about that. I doubt we'll ever go very far. I really don't like hot humid climates and there's no air con on the boat.

FKT

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20 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

 

Nice video smack. Very helpful. If you only had the tired old iPad 2 (like I do) and were a bit price conscious, which app would you recommend?

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In the US?  SeaIQ, it is only $5 with charts and is one of the better apps.

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1 hour ago, freewheelin said:

Nice video smack. Very helpful. If you only had the tired old iPad 2 (like I do) and were a bit price conscious, which app would you recommend?

Thanks free. It was fun being a bit of a goofball mocking the crap you typically hear on forums and disproving each complaint - but it was REALLY fun learning more about all this technology and these apps.

Bear in mind that the iPad in the LifeProof case that you see me using in the video (both in the testing and while offshore) is the tired old iPad 2. I bought 2 of them off eBay for under $400 - and they were (and still are) extremely reliable. Here's another video showing the apps we have on these and how we use them...

We used iNavX and ran all NMEA data (SeaTalk instrumentation, AIS via the GX2200 VHF, etc.) into iNavX via the Brookhouse iMux. It's a great system. It really is. So if you're really cost-conscious, I don't think you can go wrong with this rig.

However, since the iPad2 is getting a bit long in the tooth and no longer getting iOS updates, it probably makes sense to move to newer models that are still getting the updates. A good reason for this is all the new apps and technology coming along like I cover in this video. For example, the TimeZero chart app is truly awesome. Couple that with the Furuno 1st Watch radar overlay and the NMEA via iMux - and add in the IR camera capability - and you have a truly killer rig at the helm for not much money.

The space is changing very quickly. But the power you can get by looking at the alternatives which are thousands and thousands less than the brand name solutions is pretty incredible. And it's really not that hard to put it all together.

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3 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

For example, the TimeZero chart app is truly awesome.

TimeZero appears to be vector only. Not only vector only, but proprietary vector only.

Don't like vector charts, and don't like NOAA charts that people have fucked with.

Go ahead, ask me to tell my Navionics story about charts that have been fucked with.

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4 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

TimeZero appears to be vector only. Not only vector only, but proprietary vector only.

Don't like vector charts, and don't like NOAA charts that people have fucked with.

Go ahead, ask me to tell my Navionics story about charts that have been fucked with.

Tell me!

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On 11/2/2018 at 9:11 AM, LB 15 said:

My problem is that I have spent far too much time out on the water (and away from the family) lately, and over the past 25 years. To be honest most sailing bores me senseless these days except for racing or cruising with the family. This weekend the child bride and I are racing on the POGO with shaggy. It is the french yacht challenge were we get to beat up on a bunch of Beneteau's crewed by people in red and white striped shirts and berets. We are dressing as the rainbow warrior frogmen.

It is going to be a hoot!

You will have to fart in their general direction...

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37 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

You will have to fart in their general direction...

He'll have a wetsuit on. It'll just make an unsightly neoprene bubble.

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28 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

He'll have a wetsuit on. It'll just make an unsightly neoprene bubble.

I might steal that.

 

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In the real world, among folks that have actually worn a wetsuit, the idea of a fart making a wetsuit bulge is a truly frightening thing.

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J6 - just FYI, you're not quite right on the charts for TZ. The version of the app I showed in my video had only NOAA raster charts available at that time. The newer version (TZiBoat) - has BOTH raster and vector. And though I've not bought the vector charts for the app itself - their website lists C-MAP, Navionics, and IHO as the options in their library.

As for what you mean (or are implying) by "proprietary vector" and/or "NOAA charts that are f'd with" - I don't really know.

As I say in the video - I've personally used Navionics vector charts extensively in the Gulf of Mexico through iNavX and have found them to be extremely accurate from Mexico to S. Florida. And they are always being updated for obvious reasons due precisely to their "proprietary" nature (crowdsourced SonarChart bathymetry which is a brilliant idea).

So, if you actually ran your boat aground or something and are blaming "proprietary vector" and/or "NOAA charts that are f'd with" maybe there is something off in your specific area - or maybe your story about the incident? You may go ahead and tell that story and show the chart problems if you'd like. Maybe that would be interesting in light of the alleged NOAA f'ing.

Regardless, I've found no reason yet to "distrust" the Navionics charts. I definitely trust them as much as I do NOAA charts at this point (maybe even a bit more)...though I always watch where I'm going anyway...even with an unsightly post-burrito neoprene bubble in my form-fitting wetsuit.

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Smackdaddy: how are the current and tide displays in the TZ app?  I installed the free version to play with it, but they won’t show me tides until I pay for charts. 

Can you see a representation of the current levels?  Can you easily adjust that using a time slider?

Thanks, I haven’t seen much else about this app but it looks pretty good. 

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15 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Smackdaddy: how are the current and tide displays in the TZ app?  I installed the free version to play with it, but they won’t show me tides until I pay for charts. 

Can you see a representation of the current levels?  Can you easily adjust that using a time slider?

Thanks, I haven’t seen much else about this app but it looks pretty good. 

I don't know Alex. As I said, my primary app til now has been iNavX. And, for me, it had beaten everything else hands-down until I found TZ - especially because you could load iNavX on multiple devices with a single license. But with everything going on with TZ, I was just crazy impressed when I saw it.

But because you have to drop $40-$50 for the TZ charts, I haven't gone that next step. As I said above, because the version in my video only had raster charts - I was going to wait. This new iBoat version has definitely upped the ante. But looking at the demos, the tide/current info looks solid from a UX/UI perspective. And I can't imagine that the info itself would be out of whack.

So someone else is going to have to take the plunge and do an updated review...or give me the $2500 to do it myself! Heh.

PS - But don't forget SeaNav either. Some crazy cool tech (and cheaper charts) with that one too. It's going to be a hard choice between these two for my next full-blown purchase and integration.

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