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OHAWHO

PV Race

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So with a few weeks left before the start of PV the class breaks are out here:

https://yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eid=4434

 

I think it will be an interesting race, maybe we can get some weather guys to chime in about what the course looks like as we get closer.  Here is my look at the Divisions:

Multi:

Mighty Merlot Orma 60 takes the win, these guys crushed transpac (with top crew) and I think they will handle the gunboat easily.  Gunboats are awesome but this "base model" won't hang with the ORMA

First to Finish:

Mighty Merlot will be the first boat to cross the line and I think RIO 100 will take monohull line honors.  Rio did a nice job against el cabron the botin 80 (then beau geste) in the 2014 Sydney Hobart and Karl Kwok's team had more time in the boat.  I think with the right conditions prospector and el cabron will give rio a run for their money.

Division 1:

Badpak wins corrected, the Pac 52s really showed their prowess in Transpac and unless there's very light wind they will be on the step early and hang with the bigger boats.  I don't know prospector's rating but the maxi 72s seem to do well in other offshore events against 52ish boats, in my opinion if sailed well they'll compete with badpak.  I'm pretty sure destroyer changed hands and isn't sailing leaving only 2 other 52ish boats to compete and BadPak is the most put together of those programs.  I also think BadPak will take the overall corrected trophy.

Division 2:

Pyewacket will continue their dominance, runaway has too much sail area they have to pay for it in rating.  Peligroso, Mr Bill and Med Man just aren't campaigned at the same level as Pyewacket.  I'm going to guess we see Peligroso as Pyewacket's biggest competition but maybe runaway's sail area will be helpful if it's a lighter year.

 

Division 3:

I think this race comes down to Horizon vs Timeshaver & Derivative.  Horizon has proven to be the fastest sc50 in the past 10 (?) years.  The j/125 if sailed reasonably correct will always crush the sc50s (in the 2016 edition of this race the "shaver" took a stop at the office in cabo apparently).  I think Timeshaver takes it because they've done the most sailing on the 125 in the past few years.  Derivate 2nd and Horizon 3rd.  Long shot in this one is on Triumph, they've been pushing to compete with Horizon for a few years now and this may be the race they step on the podium.

 

Division 4:

I think you have 4 contenders in this class, so likely one of the more interesting groups to watch.  Fast exit has completely changed the boat in the last 2 years and is trying to be a "fast 40", if it's finally setup right they could compete.  Jim Madden's SRM program has an unlimited budget and multiple big boats to play with, they're the best "program" but how will a swan 601 compete against a RP 50?  To be seen...  I think Blue Blazes, while aging has really found their niche with this race, I think the race will be Blue Blazes vs Bretwalda.  I think if it's a windy year Bretwalda wins and if it's light Blue blazes but I will speculate Bretwalda as the winner.  Varuna the Rogers 46 had a great year in transpac and showed the capability of the Rogers (not that it was in doubt) and I know the bretwalda guys and varuna always sailed close together.

 

Division 5:

I'm much less familiar with these 3 boats but I think Marjorie probably has some unreal rating and has sailed the event before so I'll guess they take it. 

 

I mean no offense to the teams that I didn't mention or pick, as I sit behind the keyboard those on the water can feel free to prove me wrong.  We could see boats having to drop out because of conditions or damage like we did a few years ago when cabo ended up being a beat upwind.

I've sailed on a few of the boats racing and sisterships of the bigger boats in quite a few cabo races and transpacs. 

I hope other people chime in with their commentary on why I'm way off.  I do wish we had a fleet of hobie 33s or some smaller boats racing, maybe even the mini transat boats?

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I heard that was the reason for the mods. They wanted to be competitive with the J-125s. But, I don't think they are quite there yet. 

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Pretty happy we are not in with the J125's and Horizon although they are known entity with us.  I will be on Blue Blazes.  We are used to looking at the J125's as our competition which come down to under 15 or over 23 we are really close or maybe winning 16--22 they are on the step and it hard for us.  Horizon all around good boat. Haven't really done miles with any of the boats in our class 4 so will have to wait and see where we stack up. Should as always be fun.  We are doing it with a group that has sailed together over the course of 20 - 30 years.  SO while many are aging we do all know each others strengths and weaknesses and we all get along great so will be fun no matter what. There a lot of newer designs in our class well at least compared to us I think BB was built in 1986 maybe?

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According to Socalphrf.org Blue Blazes was built in 1992, amazing how relevant she still is compared to many of the 50 somethings of that era.  When I said "aging" i was speaking merely of the kevlar hull not of the crew members on Blue Blazes.

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17 minutes ago, OHAWHO said:

According to Socalphrf.org Blue Blazes was built in 1992, amazing how relevant she still is compared to many of the 50 somethings of that era.  When I said "aging" i was speaking merely of the kevlar hull not of the crew members on Blue Blazes.

You are probably right about 1992 I thought it was older but yes both crew and boat  are aging and I would say aging well but with a lot of hard miles under them haha

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The race admins are getting push back on the provisional Div 3/4.  The question seems to be why aren't all the sprit/planing boats together in one class and all the full displacement together in another.

The Rogers runs neck and neck with the 125s and the Swan at various times. Fast Exit has shown great speed and may pull it together.

The displacement boats (RP, DK, SC50/52) all sail in the same water and none will get on step unless its 20++ (if at all). 1D35 and J65 are rating outliers but aren't an issue either way.

There are rumors of boats pulling out because of this (and questions on the politics of it as well).

Its still provisional and they have 2 weeks or so for a possible change.

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As an SDYC boat I would be curious how this split really helps us but maybe they are referring to the other SDYC boat. Yeah we had some discussions.  Splitting mixed fleets like this is never easy and not everybody will be happy ever. Our disappointment is really with the 601 being in our fleet when they fit closer to the 70's and 52's then us. I get they want all the 70's and all the TP52's in a fleet.  So then it is how do you split the remaining 13 boats.  They want all the Santa Cruz 50 and 52's together so that is 4 boats.  SO how to split the remaining boats? Most similar is us most closely rated would be the Rogers. If you take the SC50 out of the mix the split it seems pretty clear. We would be perfectly happy if you moved the J125s down and us up.  Then you have all pole boats together.  But is it fair to leave the 601 as it is by far the fastest.  Just from looking at Islands race from last year.  WHo knows we just look at it as who ever it is they all have conditions they are strong nd weak in against us so it is what it is.  Again the 601 is the spoiler as it by far the quickest in those two fleets and would be closer up to the 70's then down to us.

j125 1.01

SC50 1.01

R46 1.054

SC52 1.063

RP50 1.081

601 1.149

SC70 1.17

Andrews 70 1.61

TP52 1.266

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In Long Point, the J125s, Rogers and 601 mixed it up, but the 601 is faster going upwind for sure and light air reaching (waterline). The 601 is in no man's land evenly split between the fast 50s and the 52/70 groupings and the big boats sure don't want them. They weren't in the Islands race  (or any other offshore race as I can tell) last year so hard to tell on an offshore race.

Knowing its horses for courses, it has to best to split the poles and sprits - mixing them writes off half of each division based on the actual weather.

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16 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

In Long Point, the J125s, Rogers and 601 mixed it up, but the 601 is faster going upwind for sure and light air reaching (waterline). The 601 is in no man's land evenly split between the fast 50s and the 52/70 groupings and the big boats sure don't want them. They weren't in the Islands race  (or any other offshore race as I can tell) last year so hard to tell on an offshore race.

Knowing its horses for courses, it has to best to split the poles and sprits - mixing them writes off half of each division based on the actual weather.

Looking at the numbers they are not evenly split between.  RP 50 1.08 / 601 1.15 / SC70 1.17 that is a LOT closer to a 70 then a 50

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you seem to be using the 'adjusted' buoy numbers from Hot Rum - I was looking at OWC and measuring the Swan versus the Rogers at the tiope of the class (14 sec delta) vs 30 seconds delta for the 70s'

 

Either way, looks like the concern with the SC50/52s is being worked out - more to come tomorrow.

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Same guy that owns the Azhou RP63  

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Yea BB was built in 1992 . The old Morning Glory .Most crew have kids that were born then . Happy hour everyday and cooked food . Winning comb o . Oh and the best best owner . 82 and loves offshore .

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15 hours ago, jackolantern said:

OCC?

 

Sorry, too easy

haha or Maritime those two places seem to be where all the bug boats out west  end up

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3 weeks out and no change to the class breaks yet...

Destroyer owner now has Nimbus which is the old Rio TP52 from 07.  The boat was in rough shape prior to being purchased, she was on the hard in San Diego a few weeks ago.  I think it would be quite a feat to go from Annapolis not cared for to competitive with a Pac52 with full pro preparation in 60 days or less.  I don't see them as a contender in Division 1.

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8 hours ago, OHAWHO said:

3 weeks out and no change to the class breaks yet...

Destroyer owner now has Nimbus which is the old Rio TP52 from 07.  The boat was in rough shape prior to being purchased, she was on the hard in San Diego a few weeks ago.  I think it would be quite a feat to go from Annapolis not cared for to competitive with a Pac52 with full pro preparation in 60 days or less.  I don't see them as a contender in Division 1.

Are there any old gen TP52's competitive with Pac52's?

Looks like there were some class break changes:

https://yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eid=4434

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Vesper is an "older" 52 and she can do good work against the pac52 guys.  I'll have to look at the classes now and see what it looks like but horizon on top in sc50/52 class and timeshaver on top of 125 class. 

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2 hours ago, OHAWHO said:

Vesper is an "older" 52 and she can do good work against the pac52 guys.  

I know next to nothing about the TP or Pac52's. When did Vesper race against the Pac52's?

Horizon is a safe bet.

I don't know who's on Timeshaver, guessing Kmag will be, but who else? 

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I'm sailing with John, Len and the boys on Horizon. Hip and lil Hip will be with Viggo on Time Shaver . Then Fan will be on Blue Blazes. So, it will be interesting.   

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2 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

I'm sailing with John, Len and the boys on Horizon. Hip and lil Hip will be with Viggo on Time Shaver . Then Fan will be on Blue Blazes. So, it will be interesting.   

Sounds like all the usual suspects. 

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19 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

I'm sailing with John, Len and the boys on Horizon. Hip and lil Hip will be with Viggo on Time Shaver . Then Fan will be on Blue Blazes. So, it will be interesting.   

At least we are all in different fleets now!

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It means they still have a shot at first place haha

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On 2/9/2018 at 12:55 PM, Hitchhiker said:

I know next to nothing about the TP or Pac52's. When did Vesper race against the Pac52's?

Horizon is a safe bet.

I don't know who's on Timeshaver, guessing Kmag will be, but who else? 

Vesper sailed against Gladiator LRBAR, Bad Pak,Rio, and more today.

 

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_regatta_results.php?regatta_id=15723 

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On an unrelated note Invisible Hand broke theo headstay  today. Saw them at the dock at SDYC

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1 hour ago, OHAWHO said:

Vesper sailed against Gladiator LRBAR, Bad Pak,Rio, and more today.

 

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_regatta_results.php?regatta_id=15723 

Interesting.  Had they raced against the Pac52's prior to this?

Btw, I see the corrected results, were they across the line first as well?

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18 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Interesting.  Had they raced against the Pac52's prior to this?

Btw, I see the corrected results, were they across the line first as well?

Click on the race number to see the elapsed times

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Someone clue me in on this: I thought the Pacific 52s are different from the Transpacific 52s in the the Pac52s are built for offshore and the (at least current) TP52s are not?

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^Comparing Bad Pak and Invisible hand to Kinetic in Hawaii last year, the two Pac52's had noticeably greater hull volume than Kinetic. No idea what gen Kinetic is.

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9 hours ago, Parma said:

Someone clue me in on this: I thought the Pacific 52s are different from the Transpacific 52s in the the Pac52s are built for offshore and the (at least current) TP52s are not?

I believe Bad Pak and Invisible Hand are more offshore oriented than Rio and fox.  But even Rio and Fox are more robust than the current TP52's.  

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Besides the rules deltas (more sail, smaller engine, etc), the Pac52s are tweaked for offshore (less holes in deck, etc). It takes about 125 lbs extra gear to convert inshore to offshore mode (head, bunks, jetboil, etc).  But other wise, they are TPs.

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1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

Besides the rules deltas (more sail, smaller engine, etc), the Pac52s are tweaked for offshore (less holes in deck, etc). It takes about 125 lbs extra gear to convert inshore to offshore mode (head, bunks, jetboil, etc).  But other wise, they are TPs.

Except they could never measure as a TP52 the way the class is currently dealing with things. 

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TP52 started as a box rule for west coast and pacific offshore racing. The boats were very successful and a decent size for both grand prix and offshore. In about 2007, the class was 'shifted' to a med based series, almost died in 2011 and has had a number of local updated rule changes. Currently, there are 9 boats being built by 2 designers and 3 older boats coming back for 2018. I surmise there are well over 50 TP52 box rule boats in existence world wide, with less than half being designed/built for the med series

The rest of the TP52 world (I don't have a count) race under various handicap and have won virtually every major offshore race there is at one time or another. Any of the med-series cast offs, are very fast inshore boats, but NOT built to offshore scantlings and virtually no one would take them offshore as is.

The Pac52 is an attempt to take back the boat (not the current inshore 'rule' or class) to its original intent (inshore/offshore), and they have made some minor updates to match it  to more modern needs. Other TP52 box rule boats are invited to sail, but must be altered to make fair racing against the true inshore/offshore inspired boats.

The med-based TP52 'rule' will go their focused way, and the Pac52 class, while still in the same TP52 box rule theme, will go their own way. I suspect that the med-inspired/tested hull shapes (botin) will continue to be fast but will be altered for the offshore needs in the Pac52 class.

 

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Jetboil is a manufacturer of extremely lightweight backpacking propane single burner stove. 

Weight concious hang one of these on gimble on a bulkhead for all their hot liquid and freeze dried cooking needs. Less than a pound.

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Heres a pic on a mini transat ( jetboil as a generic terminology) - it is evident just outside the 'nav station'

 

btw - on a recent tp52 i was on, the 'nav station' was a laptop bolted upside down to the main bulkhead and the user laid on the floor looking up at the laptop screen - that was about it. Weight weenies will always find a way.

unnamed_3.jpg?itok=mXi1vxFV

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Not sure that "nav station" would fly with my clients. I remember the days when clients would ask for a chart table big enough to lay out a paper chart!

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1 minute ago, Bob Perry said:

Not sure that "nav station" would fly with my clients. I remember the days when clients would ask for a chart table big enough to lay out a paper chart!

What charts?:o

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3 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

What charts?:o

I still believe in paper charts. Or at the least, Maptech ChartKits. I believe in using every means available to track and plan position. Real charts do not fall victim to the problem of losing resolution with scaling such as what happened with Aegean in the 2012 Newport to Ensenada Race or Team Vestas in the 2013-2014 VOR.

Not only is it a safety issue, but it is also good for team morale and even tactical brainstorming. When a real chart with updated positions is visible to all crew members (without disturbing the Navigator or their equipment) it keeps them engaged in the game. It keeps many eyes and brains up-to-date with options and planning. This is a good thing.

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18 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

I still believe in paper charts. Or at the least, Maptech ChartKits. I believe in using every means available to track and plan position. Real charts do not fall victim to the problem of losing resolution with scaling such as what happened with Aegean in the 2012 Newport to Ensenada Race or Team Vestas in the 2013-2014 VOR.

Not only is it a safety issue, but it is also good for team morale and even tactical brainstorming. When a real chart with updated positions is visible to all crew members (without disturbing the Navigator or their equipment) it keeps them engaged in the game. It keeps many eyes and brains up-to-date with options and planning. This is a good thing.

Sarcasm is lost in SA.

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wanna see what they do to equalize "old" boats like Vesper. Heard weight movements, even mast issues. I'm happy I don't "get it". Well done anyways. Bet fleet not to thrilled with the beater boat Bud doing so well. Will be fun to watch

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Fleet should be less thrilled with AC teams showing up with "amateurs" and wiping the floor with their intentions of having a pro-am 52 circuit.

The Wasabi/Buds of the world should be encouraged, not discouraged. Hopefully they manage to coax some boats down from Seattle as well. 

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18 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Not only is it a safety issue, but it is also good for team morale and even tactical brainstorming.

Plus, in some instances, it's the law.  Planning a trip to the Gulf Islands this summer, and found that Canadian law requires paper charts on board.

Which is fine, I carry paper charts anyway (as backup for iSailor on my iPad, which is backup for the chartplotter...)

Plus... I have to say, there's still something that feels good about taking a bearing and drawing a LOP on a chart. 

</drift>

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21 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Fleet should be less thrilled with AC teams showing up with "amateurs" and wiping the floor with their intentions of having a pro-am 52 circuit.

The Wasabi/Buds of the world should be encouraged, not discouraged. Hopefully they manage to coax some boats down from Seattle as well. 

For Pac52 class racing, there is still a 7 pro crew limit.  Who cares if the pro's are AC guys or not?  

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On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:00 PM, sumpin said:

wanna see what they do to equalize "old" boats like Vesper. Heard weight movements, even mast issues. I'm happy I don't "get it". Well done anyways. Bet fleet not to thrilled with the beater boat Bud doing so well. Will be fun to watch

For the midwinters, they raced ORC, so the beaters had a fair shot.  If you look at the "line honors" results, the beaters were right where you would think they would be.

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

For Pac52 class racing, there is still a 7 pro crew limit.  Who cares if the pro's are AC guys or not?  

Because there are a lot of well paid amateurs out there... 

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20 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

The best amateurs money can buy!

Until someone starts calling them out on that behavior it is going to continue. Some very well compensated team van drivers, gardeners, cooks, riggers, drone pilots, media people, etc etc etc out there. 

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Until someone starts calling them out on that behavior it is going to continue. Some very well compensated team van drivers, gardeners, cooks, riggers, drone pilots, media people, etc etc etc out there. 

It is never going to stop.  This all came about way back when the Farr 40 fleet was in full swing. Some of the owners were pretty open about it in fact I believe that "The best amatuers money can buy" was first uttered by Kilroy at the trophy presentation at the first Farr 40 Worlds in San Fran. 

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20 minutes ago, fan said:

It is never going to stop.  This all came about way back when the Farr 40 fleet was in full swing. Some of the owners were pretty open about it in fact I believe that "The best amatuers money can buy" was first uttered by Kilroy at the trophy presentation at the first Farr 40 Worlds in San Fran. 

Oh No.  It pre-dates Farr 40's by decades.

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26 minutes ago, fan said:

It is never going to stop.  This all came about way back when the Farr 40 fleet was in full swing. Some of the owners were pretty open about it in fact I believe that "The best amatuers money can buy" was first uttered by Kilroy at the trophy presentation at the first Farr 40 Worlds in San Fran. 

Uh, I was on that crew in '99 and no such words were uttered. We were 100% legal - just really good Cat 1's. 

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I was also there.  He said it in jest but he said it out loud and at the trophy presentation.  Not saying he was doing anything that anybody else wasn't.  Again just my recollection.  This isn't even what this thread is supposed to be about.  I can tell you though that the Cat1 -3 situation is a lot more sorted now then it was back then.  

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If said, it was meant to mean that good programs attract the best amateurs. Not that Cat 3's were sailing as 1's on Samba. However, there are still sailors and owners who abuse this concept. Always will be. 

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Not take this off topic from the TP/PAC 52 discussion but I see the Swan 601 beat two ULDB 70's and TP52 boat for boat in the Islands Race.  I still don't understand the logic of having them start Fri.  They rate soo much closer to the 70's then to anyone on that start day.  T-minus 10 days to start.  Looking forward to seeing all the official ratings this Fri.  Have a work day this Saturday to get everything cleaned, vacuum bagged and gear loaded etc.

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Two fairly uncompetitive 70's and a TP 52 under new management, who is yet to turn the money hose onto the sail program! Plus in a race that had more holes than Trump's no collusion assertion.

They haven't stated which divisions start on which date as far as I can tell.  Maybe you'll get to start on Saturday.:o

 

Screen Shot 2018-02-20 at 10.24.10 AM.png

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from the schedule:

 

Thursday, March 1, 2018
1200 START - ORR Division 7 San Diego Bay
1800 Kick Off Party SDYC Club Room

Friday, March 2, 2018
0800 Div 4, 5, 6 Reception & Skippers Meeting SDYC Club Room
1200 START - ORR Division 6 San Diego Bay
1210 START - ORR Division 5 San Diego Bay
1220 START - ORR Division 4 San Diego Bay

Saturday, March 3, 2018
0800 Div 0, 1, 2, 3 Reception & Skippers Meeting SDYC Club Room
1200 START - ORR Div 3 San Diego Bay
1210 START - ORR Div 2 San Diego Bay
1220 START - ORR Div 1 San Diego Bay
1230 START - Multihull Div 0 San Diego Bay

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All of the SRM's have been extremely quick. But, this SRM does preform much more closely to a Div 3 boat. It would make more sense to move Blue Blazes in with us in Div 5 and Cazan & Breitwalda into Div 6. But, I'm not sure where they should put Good Call.

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I get its a gonna be what its gonna be.  I  just know that we race really closely with the J125's it sort of comes down to conditions on who is faster down the course. SRM are always well prepped, well sailed and well rated.  As random as it is you don't win three Hot Rums in a row without all three. 

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2 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

Could be - but with multiple fronts passing before then, its hard to believe that specific forecast will hold for 10 days.

I wouldn't put any money on it.

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I tried to copy and paste some of the division stuff but I think it's changed so much I calls for a new post.

 

Multi:

Mighty Merlot - Look at islands race...crushed it and no competition with chim chim.  To be fair you could legitimately could have had a barbecue and watched the olympics on chim chim while still racing.

Division 1:

This is the race for the first to finish boats, I think Rio wins 1st across the line (behind merlot) and prospector wins corrected.  Rio was on her way back from Hawaii as of two days ago so this is assuming shes fitted with a new rudder and back to California in time.

Division 2:

Bad Pak is the overall winner and clear winner of this class unless something surprising happens.

Division 3:

Pyewacket's race to lose reference the previous post about boats preparation and program preparedness.  Medicine man should be first to finish in this class but well see what they decide to do.

Division 4:

The big changes in class breaks start here, you have brewalda vs blue blazes (as mentioned before I don't know why you wouldn't put bretwalda with the j125s).  I think your dark horse in this race is Stark Raving Mad, but that boat won't hang in the big breeze with planing hulled smaller boats.  Could be a tough race for Blue Blazes with the swan excelling in lighter conditions with waterline and the rogers excelling in planing conditions with bigger breeze.  I'm going to say bretwalda for the win in this class and hope to see a good race with the swan and Blue Blazes.

Division 5:

The SC50/52 class will be dominated by horizon unless triumph or one of the other teams can capitalize on mistakes of horizon.  She's been a challenging competitor among sisterships for 10 years (minus that 2 minute loss in 15 transpac).  She's beatable but it won't be easy.

Division 6:

The guys on fast exit seem to think they have the boat sorted after islands and are excited for this race but I don't see them holding with the 125s, I think timeshaver and derivative duke it out for the win and as I said before I'm picking timeshaver.  Unfortunately the guy with the 1d35 has a boat that doesn't compete with carbon 40 footers.  Maybe it's rating will compensate if it's light?

Division 7:

As I said before I'm much less familiar with these boats and would guess Marjorie wins.

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Wonder what the RC will do with the boats not having an MMSI/AIS - several boats do not have any listing on the FCC website and its hard to see how they get one in time:

Amendment 1:

An AIS transceiver IS required to be on board and functional for each vessel entered in the race. The Sailing Instructions will specify that AIS is to be switched ON only for a nominal amount of time at the start and finish of the race.

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4 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

Wonder what the RC will do with the boats not having an MMSI/AIS - several boats do not have any listing on the FCC website and its hard to see how they get one in time:

Amendment 1:

An AIS transceiver IS required to be on board and functional for each vessel entered in the race. The Sailing Instructions will specify that AIS is to be switched ON only for a nominal amount of time at the start and finish of the race.

Curious about this too. Also, what is the definition of "nominal amount of time"?

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As for the AIS, I assume they really want to use it to notify the RC when to watch the YB closely at the finish. AID is not accurate enough for calling lines or finish times, but accurate enough to notify someone that a given boat is within minutes of a given position. That being said, I would think 10-15 minutes would be reasonable unless the SIs state something different. Coming out of stealth mode for 15 min at the finish is not going to change any other boat's tactics.

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It will be interesting to see how accurate the virtual finish line will be. 

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Yeah if any positions are determined by less then 5 minutes my guess is there will be some grumbling.  As a member of SDYC and for the money and all the full time staff we have AND are sending to PV I think it is a joke they can't be bothered to go set a line.  I mean what is it that is so important they can't do it?  Are they a social committee or a race committee. I always always thank race committee when I finish.  But in this case we at paying to send a team down why can't they go do their duty and finish people.  The option presented was to just finish like they used all the way in then they can sit in the hotel like they do for Cabo finish.

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I’m interested in the virtual line too. The potential of 10’ position accuracy is clearly better than floating bouys and boats, but the reality will certainly be worse than that, with several sources of small errors.

Were there many complaints about the SoCal 300, with multiple virtual GPS finish/start gates?

Seems like a great concept, curious about how successful it feels to the racers.

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37 minutes ago, fan said:

Yeah if any positions are determined by less then 5 minutes my guess is there will be some grumbling.  As a member of SDYC and for the money and all the full time staff we have AND are sending to PV I think it is a joke they can't be bothered to go set a line.  I mean what is it that is so important they can't do it?  Are they a social committee or a race committee. I always always thank race committee when I finish.  But in this case we at paying to send a team down why can't they go do their duty and finish people.  The option presented was to just finish like they used all the way in then they can sit in the hotel like they do for Cabo finish.

The wacko thing about that is that there are good sailors, probably even local RC members, freezing in Chicago, Boston St Louis, NY etc who would pay $1,000s to go sit on a boat in Puerto Vallarta for a few days. Should have auctioned it off to the highest bidder.

 

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As I recall at the awards for the Islands Race, Jeff said that the largest discrepancy between reported time and electronically tracked finish times  was 15 seconds. But, the transponders are all mounted on the transoms. We are all used to recording finishes as our bow crosses the line. There can be 65' of difference between Rio crossing the line and a OD35 crossing the line. How does that work out?

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I just find it funny we have to report our positions daily because of the lack of confidence in the trackers accuracy and realiability yet after a 5 day race when it really matters they are willing to let that decide your finish time.  For me skip one of the pre-awards parties and have finish line that is why we do these races or don't send the race management people down if they are not going to manage the race send food and beverage instead.

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I'm not complaining about the RC. I'm just curious about how they will deal with certain variables. The accuracy of the YB tracker is highly dependent on ping rate. The ping rate determines battery life. So, do they turn up the ping rate in the last 5 miles? When I look at the YB track of the Islands Race, it completely missed showing the distance we continued to sail on port beyond the West end of Catalina to get around the hole. How do they account for the position of the tracker on the boat?  I understand that they intend to use YB tracker as the primary and the AIS as a back up with navigators taking pictures of gps/plotters as the secondary back up. But, each of the items above are going to add some variance to the three data collection methods. 

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Look at what STC does with the Pineapple Cup. One end of the line is a Govt. Marker, and the other is a powerboat that motors out whenever there's one/multiple finishers and ties up to a hippity hop on an anchor that they've dropped at the other end of the line. Only needs to be one person in a Mako to record a time. Agreed that seconds matter offshore and this sounds like a shitty way to record finishes on a very major distance race. 

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So, I've been talking with the RC. It appears there is new technology that Yellow Brick is utilizing. They program the finish gate position into each competitor's tracker. Then when the boat crosses the line the tracker will send one extra position report. They are also considering boat speed calculations to offset for the bow to stern  variance.

 

But, if you have a really close finish, I'm thinking cameras on the bow as well as in the nav station. 

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6 minutes ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

But, if you have a really close finish, I'm thinking cameras on the bow as well as in the nav station. 

Or attach the tracker to the bow, prod or Spi pole.  

 

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