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squiby

1st JPK 11.80 launches

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JPK says hull #1 will splash on Feb 7th. I'm excited to see how this boat turns out. I've been enamored with the JPK 10.80 and Sunfast 3600 but really looking for something a bit bigger offshore. I'm wondering how this boat will stack up against the J/121. Any other obvious competitors?

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JPK11.80 - Plan de voilure 171029.pdf

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Drawings I’ve seen show a slab which seems to be the ticket for IRC optimization. I’ve seen some other JPK models with a bulb. IRC focused 10.80 seems to have the slab. I’m guessing the slab is standard but they’ll built you either one. I asked Jean Pierre the same question and am waiting to hear the answer but I’m guessing he’s a bit busy with the launch. 

 

If one is not competing in IRC and more concerned with ORR or other rules, would you choose a bulb keel?

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Nice slab, nice prop shaft aperture, 

the last jpk i saw  had excellent cockpit ergonomics.

the french do smart boats   

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Custopol is a clue to Gery Trentesaux' involvement.  RORC racers should pay attention :)

 

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Looks very JPK. They seem to specialise in plenty of volume in front of the mast.

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On 2/4/2018 at 7:20 AM, squiby said:

Drawings I’ve seen show a slab which seems to be the ticket for IRC optimization. I’ve seen some other JPK models with a bulb. IRC focused 10.80 seems to have the slab. I’m guessing the slab is standard but they’ll built you either one. I asked Jean Pierre the same question and am waiting to hear the answer but I’m guessing he’s a bit busy with the launch. 

 

If one is not competing in IRC and more concerned with ORR or other rules, would you choose a bulb keel?

If you were doing predominantly windward/leeward racing you would go for the lower drag and lower rating of the fin keel every day. These boats also have a focus on short handed racing which would mandate a bulb keel.

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I concur. This sample is for a retractable keel allowing deeper draft. I this case the choice is for a "Slab" keel for lower drag and same C.G.

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39 minutes ago, MelbourneA31 said:

If you were doing predominantly windward/leeward racing you would go for the lower drag and lower rating of the fin keel every day. These boats also have a focus on short handed racing which would mandate a bulb keel.

don't  the JPK 1010 and 1080 carry a fin/slab keel though?

 fair to say they've got a focus on short handed racing.

 

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For a racer cruiser , A bulb   is hard to live with....you can never prepare the bottom of the bulb without an expensive suspension  or a complicated cradle. 

when a bulb  keel grounds out it is very hard to get off.  Big footprint and poor geometry .

bulbs always pick up junk like rope...a slab sheds them 

the pointy trailing profile of my bulb is always bent, deformed from sitting on the bottom or touching things when in reverse 

with a slab  it not so important that the bottom of the keel is  clean and fair because its footprint is so small....when grounded with a slab  you just heel over a bit and off you go 

No need for a bulb unless your intended purpose   or the design needs a bulb 

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Also, JPK and Valer are very good for shape stability and therefore don't need that much weight in the keel, unlike say, the A31. A lot of the DH French 1010 choose the IRC keel and keep on winning.

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3 hours ago, slug zitski said:

For a racer cruiser , A bulb   is hard to live with....you can never prepare the bottom of the bulb without an expensive suspension  or a complicated cradle. 

when a bulb  keel grounds out it is very hard to get off.  Big footprint and poor geometry .

bulbs always pick up junk like rope...a slab sheds them 

the pointy trailing profile of my bulb is always bent, deformed from sitting on the bottom or touching things when in reverse 

with a slab  it not so important that the bottom of the keel is  clean and fair because its footprint is so small....when grounded with a slab  you just heel over a bit and off you go 

No need for a bulb unless your intended purpose   or the design needs a bulb 

This is the least of the worries of people who buy these boats. They just want to win and if bulb become more efficient IRC weapons, they will switch to bulbs.

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Slug,

Flowing....flowing...

A bit this.

The semi pro guys will and do take the IRC optimum.

But the good club guys should (maybe) take the higher RM bulb version.

And cop some not so great results in very rough water and downwind... for ease and Ok less rough?

Whatdya think?

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I think that before you play with fast boats , you should speak with the designer.

they can give you the pros and cons  

i prefer a slab

its possible that the designer recommends a bulb...thats why I presently have a bulb .

dual purpose boats get heavy with refrigerators  and stuff.

that bulb helps the designer keep the boat on its lines 

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Slug,

 

ttttyt...the designer here is ...roughly 1000% attuned.

IMO this is a long way from 'fat production'

Capiche ?

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9 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

I concur. This sample is for a retractable keel allowing deeper draft. I this case the choice is for a "Slab" keel for lower drag and same C.G.

313GApic3-FY15-12.jpg

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Was that your NYYC One Design proposal? 

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From what I remember or the best 1010s out there, "Foggy Dew is slab+single rudder while "Night & Day" and "Raging Bee" are slab+double rudder.

They all went carbon mast, which seems worth the penalty offshore, but not the bulb.

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Flat keel and twin rudders is #1 choice for fully crewed unless 100% windward leewards where the single rudder is slightly less drag. Short handed, the bulb keel is considered, but if you look at the boats leading the Transquadra, they are mainly flat keel, twin rudder.

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We have been through a similar discussion whilst specking a brand new sunfast 3600. Designers comments are flat keel should give lower handicap, better upwind in light to medium breeze and be lower drag downwind in all weather, the downside being reduced righting moment. Interestingly the J112 GP has gone up 4 points with no adjustments to the boat, it is suspected that it’s the flat keel and our trial certificate pre weighing and measuring for the sunfast has come in higher than expected. But back to the JPK I think it will be awesome and will clean up offshore and will probably cause irc to reconsider their formula again...

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It's about autopilot use, the majority of 960 and 1010 offshore are single or double-handed, and the boat goes really well on the hear. Foggy Dew races mostly fully crewed.

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Yah... much less force needs to be generated by the autopilot drive unit .

the leeward rudder also gets a much better bite , stays wet,  when heeled in a seaway ... a center rudder on a beamy stern is dry when heeled  

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the Sunfast 3200 r2 mods suggest flat keel for crewed/inshore stuff, bulb for shorthand/offshore stuff

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Jackolantern.

No, it was not a proposal for the NYYC. One Design.

At 33' this 2012 design was for A Chilean client.

I wish I had known about the NYYC program.

 

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Saw this boat first racing trials this weekend, not a big fan of the look with it's inverted deck camber, seems to be pushing a bit of water upwind with all that volume in front.

It was only10/15 knots so can't comment on the downwind potential but more breezy racing day will sure prove to be interesting! :)

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looks like she is sailing to about 1.085 irc compared to an average of the two Grand Soleil 43,s. Does anyone know what irc is hoped for the 11.8.  .   I think the 10.80's are around 1.050 so you have to think a design that is a metre longer would be close to 1.100. 

 

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On 25/02/2018 at 10:25 PM, Shadowman said:

looks like she is sailing to about 1.085 irc compared to an average of the two Grand Soleil 43,s. Does anyone know what irc is hoped for the 11.8.  .   I think the 10.80's are around 1.050 so you have to think a design that is a metre longer would be close to 1.100. 

 

The first IRC rating i’ve seen for an 1180 is 1.102 but not endorsed

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Courrier Recommandé (Gery Trentesaux) is now rated and racing off 1.0960 at la Trinité. Hitting the front.

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