mgs

A case against colored lines?

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having all the lines on a boat be same color:

looks cleaner

quietly suggests a high level of skill ( or at least familiarality with the boat )

Could be cost effective if one buys in bulk.

 

I realize it is easier to tell inexperienced sailors to pull the red line, but by doing that you aren't really engaging them in the activity. By showing someone where the jib halyard is and telling them to pull the jib halyard, then they would have to actively participate/think. 

Sure on larger sailboats there are a whole host of colors and patterns, but those class40/open60/etc. after days and nights sailing I bet where the line is plays a bigger role than what color it is.

 

 Does a cruising boat with a furling jib need the jib halyard to be different from the main, or the sheets different from the halyards?

 

yes it's the above is a simplified argument. But it's worth thinking about.

if someone says they like the looks of different colored lines that's fine, I won't argue with that, but I don't think it helps/simplifies the sailing experience.

thoughts?

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I don't think it is the "look" we are seeking. If distinguishing colors prevent a single mishap during a race season, or a hectic event on a cruise, then the effort is worthwhile. The main reason lines were all the same color in the days of yore is....

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Colored lines give you more alternatives: to the experienced crew you yell: "Tighten the downfucker, NOW!.. To the newbie: "Could you please pull on the red and black line until tight".

One is much faster than the other one, but both work.

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42 minutes ago, mgs said:

having all the lines on a boat be same color:

looks cleaner

quietly suggests a high level of skill ( or at least familiarality with the boat )

Could be cost effective if one buys in bulk.

 

I realize it is easier to tell inexperienced sailors to pull the red line, but by doing that you aren't really engaging them in the activity. By showing someone where the jib halyard is and telling them to pull the jib halyard, then they would have to actively participate/think. 

Sure on larger sailboats there are a whole host of colors and patterns, but those class40/open60/etc. after days and nights sailing I bet where the line is plays a bigger role than what color it is.

 

 Does a cruising boat with a furling jib need the jib halyard to be different from the main, or the sheets different from the halyards?

 

yes it's the above is a simplified argument. But it's worth thinking about.

if someone says they like the looks of different colored lines that's fine, I won't argue with that, but I don't think it helps/simplifies the sailing experience.

thoughts?

Most of my lines are black...long lasting .

odd colour lines are because  I bought them at discount...end of spool

boat looks better when lines are the same...

cheaper to buy rope by the spool

 

 

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All White lines are racist.  They reflect a time when the world was colorless.  Now you can have your minions pull feck filled lines, in the old days they were feckless.  How long must I wait for my puce colored tweeker?

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I like colored lines.

It's a lot easier to tell a noob to pull the green or release the black than to tell them to pull on the port spinnaker halyard or to trip the sprit outhaul line....

And we race with a noob or semi-noob quite often.

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Happy days rigging new Swans in Italy in the late 70's, straight off the ship from Finland.  Everything was either white or white and blue fleck.  "Showing the ropes" to noob owners and crew wasn't too hard.  It made them think.  And there were lots of lines on those boats.

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Racing against the same make and model of boat, that had recently installed a brightly coloured main sheet, made it easy to see how they were setting their main.

Unkle Krusty

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Guys, it’s February. Black history month. “Colored” lines? How insensitive...

 

edit: couldn’t someone given me a trigger warning?

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My first experience of colored lines was doing cockpit on a 45-foot raceboat in the Solent in the 60s.  It had some shocking yellow custom high-strength rope.  The color code was called "Chinese Laundry" - white sheets, yellow guys.

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They all fade into the same color anyway so what difference does it make

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None of the benefits of colored lines will compensate for designated practice days with steady crew.

I realize not everyone has the luxury of steady crew but everyone can do a non-race practice day. It doesn't have to be dreary; it can be fun. Operating the boat is just a sequence of mechanical operations. Leave it to the clowns back in Fantasy Land to decide when and where they should be performed.

That said, I like color lines because I think it looks cool! However, at night, the colors become mostly indistinguishable.

 

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Sheet hooks to the guy.

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7 minutes ago, hobot said:

Sheet hooks to the guy.

On IOR maxis, they had to be clipped on the clew independently.  Guy below, sheet above.  If the sail flogs the shackle off, it only flogs one.  Also made the peel off the pole so much easier.

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36 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

On IOR maxis, they had to be clipped on the clew independently.  Guy below, sheet above.  If the sail flogs the shackle off, it only flogs one.  Also made the peel off the pole so much easier.

When afterguys were wire you removed them when not needed.

Even as fabric , many boats drop the afterguy 

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For a couple of years, we couldn't figure out why one of our crew kept making errors trimming lines - then he told us he was color blind!  Duh.

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7 hours ago, mgs said:

having all the lines on a boat be same color:

looks cleaner

quietly suggests a high level of skill ( or at least familiarality with the boat )

Could be cost effective if one buys in bulk.

Do use all one colour of wire when you do electrical work?

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2 hours ago, Vorticity said:

For a couple of years, we couldn't figure out why one of our crew kept making errors trimming lines - then he told us he was color blind!  Duh.

found out my pit guy was color blind after a race one time. I mean, i kind of suspected it after the jib cam down instead of the kite at the bottom mark, but they confirmed it verbally afterwards... 

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17 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Do use all one colour of wire when you do electrical work?

i do... but i also hate myself. 

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1 minute ago, mustang__1 said:

i do... but i also hate myself. 

Cause or effect?

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1 minute ago, IStream said:

Cause or effect?

...yes. 

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Racing with a visually impaired crew in the UK I said ' dump the vang - the yellow one!' The pit girl turned and said 'is that next to the blue one?'  

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Rigging blue control lines to yellow lines running up to the sail .. and the yellow control lines to the blue lines ... I mean WTF is up with that one??

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8 hours ago, mgs said:

having all the lines on a boat be same color:

looks cleaner

quietly suggests a high level of skill ( or at least familiarality with the boat )

Could be cost effective if one buys in bulk.

 

I realize it is easier to tell inexperienced sailors to pull the red line, but by doing that you aren't really engaging them in the activity. By showing someone where the jib halyard is and telling them to pull the jib halyard, then they would have to actively participate/think. 

Sure on larger sailboats there are a whole host of colors and patterns, but those class40/open60/etc. after days and nights sailing I bet where the line is plays a bigger role than what color it is.

 

 Does a cruising boat with a furling jib need the jib halyard to be different from the main, or the sheets different from the halyards?

 

yes it's the above is a simplified argument. But it's worth thinking about.

if someone says they like the looks of different colored lines that's fine, I won't argue with that, but I don't think it helps/simplifies the sailing experience.

thoughts?

The boats I grew up with had plain three strand. Somehow we managed.

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The people I sail with tend to be creatures of habit. When I replace a line I replace it with the colour it was before. I did have a student once that said that the should be a law that all boats had the same colour lines for each particular purpose. I wanted to slap her.

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5 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

The boats I grew up with had plain three strand. Somehow we managed.

We rolled our own ropes our of the hemp we grew ourselves. But do the young people do day listen? Nooooo. Nooooo.

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Tackling.png.44dbd35e74e470e29f868da645e3a397.png

not a colored line in sight ...

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54 minutes ago, Mid said:

Tackling.png.44dbd35e74e470e29f868da645e3a397.png

not a colored line in sight ...

Yeah - and it 200 guys with their backs whipped raw to sail it. :D

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Do use all one colour of wire when you do electrical work?

wiring.thumb.jpg.153b3279216818e6c5188beddd0ae4ad.jpg

Yep, but each one has it's own number.

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1 hour ago, Mid said:

Tackling.png.44dbd35e74e470e29f868da645e3a397.png

not a colored line in sight ...

The Kalymar Nyckel has over 500 (over 400?) lines! But this boat here is modern by comparison.

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All the lines on my H-Boat are the same type and color, white. I've got three different diameters. The only exception are the spinnaker sheets - one green, the other red - for port starboard I'd guess. No problems so far.

I like the look of one color lines.

I guess my argument against "coded" lines would be (a) replacement would be a pain, and (b) certain color lines then have a limited purpose.

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i prefer coloured lines on my boat. most of my stuff is moderately loaded and i often sail with non sailors, or people new to the boat. even with experienced crew, pull the red string is faster and clearer than pull the down fucker..... its much easier to find the red tail. 

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Sounds a lot like experience is an issue

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It seems to work on bigger boats somehow.....  Even in a gale.  At night.

15488508876_c116e0ec11_b.jpg

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Simply put, colored line makes it easy to spot. Makes it easier to sort out any rats nests, easier to trace halyards , particularly for inline halyards, etc. But by all means if you want to live in the 50s go for it, might as well buy a wood boat and throw all your electronics in the trash while you're at it , though. 

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Racing with a visually impaired crew in the UK I said ' dump the vang - the yellow one!' The pit girl turned and said 'is that next to the blue one?'  

Usually, when you say "dump the vang," you'd prefer for it to happen before the boat broaches. Not after, you know, a tutorial...

 

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44 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

Usually, when you say "dump the vang," you'd prefer for it to happen before the boat broaches. Not after, you know, a tutorial...

 

She was blind mate- as in can't see. Not as in blind to your own arrogance like your good self...

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

She was blind mate- as in can't see. Not as in blind to your own arrogance like your good self...

Being blind is a big stretch beyond being visually impaired. Without my spectacles, I'm pretty impaired but not blind.

So you're saying she was being sarcastic?

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13 hours ago, madohe said:

sprit outhaul line

????

 

Speaking of noobs...

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1 hour ago, mustang__1 said:

Simply put, colored line makes it easy to spot. Makes it easier to sort out any rats nests, easier to trace halyards , particularly for inline halyards, etc. But by all means if you want to live in the 50s go for it, might as well buy a wood boat and throw all your electronics in the trash while you're at it , though. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

Being blind is a big stretch beyond being visually impaired. Without my spectacles, I'm pretty impaired but not blind.

So you're saying she was being sarcastic?

Exactly. The VI's ranged from some light and dark through to blind since birth. They were great to sail with- lots of taking the piss out of me and some of their helming upwind in flat water was a thing of beauty to behold. One explained it to me like it was walking along a wall. I regularly blind folded myself and steered with the talking compass on a reach. I sucked at it.

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I used to sail with a guy who nearly always took one or two newbies along for casual races. 5 halyards, 2 reefing lines, cunningham, vang, outhaul, downhaul and centreboard line all came from the mast base and were run through jammers on the cabin top at the front of the cockpit. Telling a novice to blow the jib halyard means there's a less than 10% chance of getting the right line, even when they're labelled. Accidentally blowing the main halyard or a topping lift risked serious injury to someone, blowing the centreboard line when it's raised would drop it through the bottom of the boat. It's plain stupid to not mitigate those risks for the sake of some minor aesthetic. Anyone more than about 10m from boat likely can't readily distinguish the colours of the lines anyway as they're generally only visible along the cabin top or deck between mast and jammers (or cleats or whatever they're held fast on).

So yes to coloured lines and labelled jammers. Saying "Blow the jib halyard, the blue one on the right" is not much more to say and helps people learn. It hugely speeds up the learning process and makes for a much more enjoyable experience, which is what it's all about.

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All black lines used to be a thing the cool kids did. Is that still cool? Asking for a friend. 

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21 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

All black lines used to be a thing the cool kids did. Is that still cool? Asking for a friend. 

If you have to ask, you're definitely not cool…

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10 hours ago, fastyacht said:

The boats I grew up with had plain three strand. Somehow we managed.

How was Captain Bligh as a sailing instructor?

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1 minute ago, mad said:

How was Captain Bligh as a sailing instructor?

Does that include his navigation skill, or just sailing ability?

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3 hours ago, SCANAS said:

All black lines used to be a thing the cool kids did. Is that still cool? Asking for a friend. 

They stay clean and resist UV

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11 hours ago, mgs said:

Sounds a lot like experience is an issue

Sure is, when you are introducing the sport to non sailors. 

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9 hours ago, SCANAS said:

All black lines used to be a thing the cool kids did. Is that still cool? Asking for a friend. 

I reserve black lines for the third and final reef for the main.

One of the officers on the Bounty said Bligh was the finest sailor he had ever served under.

Unkle Krusty

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colored lines: much easier. "pull on burgundy" or "let the light red one go" easy to convey & understand.

also if you only have white lines on your boat where will your "safe space" be?

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those boats with green stbd /red port jib sheets looks dumb as hell. I like white lines.

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Different colors of halyards certainly make it a lot easier to see tangles at the masthead.  We used red/green for our wing halyards.  I don't want any two halyards with the same color, otherwise it doesn't matter too much.

Our guys are fluorescent orange, which makes it pretty easy for everyone on the boat to see what is going on during a jibe. 

 

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I'm a fan of colors if only for the fact that they can prevent a mishap during races. Especially in the event lines get wrapped up and tangled, it'd be pretty tough to work with 3 black lines all mixed together. Plus there're some pretty sweet colored ones out there nowadays

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9 hours ago, slug zitski said:

They stay clean and resist UV

Yes everyone knows how well black reflects sunlight. And dirt apparently. 

Drunk fat and stupid is no way to go through life son.

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3 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Drunk fat and stupid is no way to go through life son.

now ya tells me :blink:

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2 hours ago, Parma said:

colored lines: much easier. "pull on burgundy" or "let the light red one go" easy to convey & understand.

also if you only have white lines on your boat where will your "safe space" be?

If I ever told my crew to "pull on burgundy", corkscrews would appear from everywhere.

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On 2/4/2018 at 11:52 AM, BillDBastard said:

Ummmm, what sort of lines are we talking about?

tack tack tack tack tack

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you go right ahead and make all your lines white. I'll stick with my color scheme thank ya very much.

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I want to do anything I can to suggest my crew is highly skilled. I will be swapping all my colored lines for monofilament line. Only the best can work with invisible stuff.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Drunk fat and stupid is no way to go through life son.

Be fairre!!!!  You halve no effidense of hisse bing overe waitte or if beene dricken.

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If looks are the number one priority on your boat then go ahead, make all the lines the same colour.

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1 hour ago, JimC said:

If looks are the number one priority on your boat then go ahead, make all the lines the same colour.

the important things: look good sail good, and safety third. 

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On 2018-02-04 at 10:06 AM, mgs said:

having all the lines on a boat be same color:

looks cleaner

quietly suggests a high level of skill ( or at least familiarality with the boat )

Could be cost effective if one buys in bulk.

No lines at all would look even cleaner (just use the engine ... we don't need no stinking sails!). But function is more important than form, at least in my world.

I don't need to suggest (quietly or loudly) a high level of skill. People can form their own impressions about my competence; I don't really care, I'm not trying to impress anyone.

Nothing in yachting is "cost effective". Whatever savings might be realized would be essentially insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

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20 minutes ago, Svanen said:

No lines at all would look even cleaner (just use the engine ... we don't need no stinking sails!). But function is more important than form, at least in my world.

I don't need to suggest (quietly or loudly) a high level of skill. People can form their own impressions about my competence; I don't really care, I'm not trying to impress anyone.

Nothing in yachting is "cost effective". Whatever savings might be realized would be essentially insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

But what about the fuel line?

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Back in the last century, before it was at all commonplace, I colour coded the lines on my Quarter Pounder when I re-rigged it.

Most passersby on the dock stopped and commented positively on it.

 

deck.jpg

deck (3).jpg

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Do you replace the, all at once by the calander, or one at a time as they wear?  

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Back in the last century, before it was at all commonplace, I colour coded the lines on my Quarter Pounder when I re-rigged it.

Most passersby on the dock stopped and commented positively on it.

 

deck.jpg

deck (3).jpg

But don't you just hate it when someone drops the kite in the drink instead of blowing the mainsheet.

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On 2/5/2018 at 3:05 PM, Bump-n-Grind said:

you go right ahead and make all your lines white. I'll stick with my color scheme thank ya very much.

If you disagree with him, why are you thanking him?

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White is also a color, btw.  Colors are a gift if you know how to use them.

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27 minutes ago, Kraftwerk said:

White is also a color, btw.  

No its not.

"Visible light, radio waves, x-rays and other types of radiation are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Visible light is electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths ranging from roughly 400 and 700 nanometers. In physics, a color is visible light with a specific wavelength. Black and white are not colors because they do not have specific wavelengths. Instead, white light contains all wavelengths of visible light. Black, on the other hand, is the absence of visible light."

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No, he's just correct.

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20 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Don't  tell me lb is mikeys sock?

Like these?

CC.jpg

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2. White is the blending of all colors and is a color.

Explanation:
Light appears colorless or white. Sunlight is white light that is composed of all the colors of the spectrum.  A rainbow is proof. You can't see the colors of sunlight except when atmospheric conditions bend the light rays and create a rainbow. You can also use a prism to demonstrate this.

Fact: The sum of all the colors of light add up to white. This is additive color theory.

https://www.colormatters.com/color-and-design/are-black-and-white-colors

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25 minutes ago, Mid said:

2. White is the blending of all colors and is a color.

Explanation:
Light appears colorless or white. Sunlight is white light that is composed of all the colors of the spectrum.  A rainbow is proof. You can't see the colors of sunlight except when atmospheric conditions bend the light rays and create a rainbow. You can also use a prism to demonstrate this.

Fact: The sum of all the colors of light add up to white. This is additive color theory.

https://www.colormatters.com/color-and-design/are-black-and-white-colors

Unless you are dealing with pigments, such as the dyes in colored lines, then its the subtractive color theory.  Fact.

Reflection vs. Refraction.  

Sorry, I should have left that bit of pedantry for Mikey.  He's better at it.

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This thread smacks of racism.

you should all be ashamed

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5 minutes ago, Moderate said:

This thread smacks of racism.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

5 minutes ago, Moderate said:

you should all be ashamed

index.jpg.5b41967510b365d413f87b11485791fa.jpg

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58 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Unless you are dealing with pigments, such as the dyes in colored lines, then its the subtractive color theory.  It's a little known Fact.

Reflection vs. Refraction.  

Sorry, I should have left that bit of pedantry for Mikey.  He's better at it.

Fixed.

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On ‎05‎.‎02‎.‎2018 at 7:19 AM, RobG said:

 Accidentally blowing the main halyard or a topping lift risked serious injury to someone,

So yes to coloured lines and labelled jammers.

We tie the main halyard around the jammer, for 2 reasons: to avoid it being accidently dropped, and to avoid it from gliding.

I agree on the coloured lines. Not that every line need to be a different colour, but at least SOME colours. On symmetrical boats it's also very nice to differ the guy and the sheet from each other, when both are in use. It's not that they HAVE to have different colours, it's just a little easier and can prevent mistakes. And why on earth wouldn't you want that. Having all the lines in one colour sounds anal.

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