Presuming Ed

Oyster Yachts gone bust

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2 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

Feel for the workforce

and the people with half-built boats...

it's a pity - i think they are nice boats. i have done a several thousand miles on them, including an ARC. 

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2 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

Sad to hear. I guess the way to have $1 million from boat building is to start with $2 million.

unless you are Richard Mathews, who started Oyster Yachts and sold it for £70,000,000

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http://sailinganarchy.com/2018/01/26/it-came-to-consume-us/

Scooter: "I am not expecting that reception when I sit down at talk to talk with Oyster CEO David  Tydeman today. Although maybe I will as I completely missed our planned visit yesterday…! "

Scooter meeting Oyter's CEO 10 days ago and their Liquidation today? 

Coincidence?

 

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I'm surprised that they lasted this long after that keel disaster.

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So oyster is on the rocks? Not unusual. 

But seriously a great pity. Terrific products generally.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Keels coming off have anything to do with this???

Bingo.

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And boats crudely trimmed with concrete? I don't really know but with the lost keel due to poor engineering it smells of a good company ran into the ground by investment funds trying to get too much out of it.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Keels coming off have anything to do with this???

I don't know...

from the YM article:


"Recently embarking on a major project to build several 118ft superyachts, boosting jobs in the area, the quintessentially British brand announced an order book in excess of £80m worth of business only a few months ago. "

Really..., they built a lot of great boats.., but they had (serious) trouble with one..., i am not sure how big an issue it was for them in terms of sales. I know a few Oyster owners, and they didn't see it as a problem beyond that one boat. 

They were still selling boats - most new oysters are sold to oyster owners.

They are nice boats, and I would sail anywhere on one.

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4 minutes ago, us7070 said:

They are nice boats, and I would sail anywhere on one.

Yes, I agree. Not perfect boats (lots of engine noise, due to poor insulation?), but no boat is.

I've done ocean crossings on their 47, 55 and 56. All were quality yachts.

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14 minutes ago, us7070 said:

I don't know...

from the YM article:


"Recently embarking on a major project to build several 118ft superyachts, boosting jobs in the area, the quintessentially British brand announced an order book in excess of £80m worth of business only a few months ago. "

Really..., they built a lot of great boats.., but they had (serious) trouble with one..., i am not sure how big an issue it was for them in terms of sales. I know a few Oyster owners, and they didn't see it as a problem beyond that one boat. 

They were still selling boats - most new oysters are sold to oyster owners.

They are nice boats, and I would sail anywhere on one.

I think there were 4 built of that model. Presumably with same keel structure. That's millions to fix.

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1 minute ago, RKoch said:

I think there were 4 built of that model. Presumably with same keel structure. That's millions to fix.

i think in the written response about the boat that sank, Oyster said that that boat was built differently, and that none of the other boats of the same model shared the design that failed.

Still, replacing one big boat might have been enough to cause financial stress.

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Any chance of someone buying them out and re-structuring and continuing with the brand? I think the brand is a strong one not withstanding the keel issue they had in the past? Why not a Taiwanese or Chinese builder?

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15 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Any chance of someone buying them out and re-structuring and continuing with the brand? I think the brand is a strong one not withstanding the keel issue they had in the past? Why not a Taiwanese or Chinese builder?

I agree about the brand's strong reputation. I doubt it would be effectively transferable to an Asian builder ... but that's just my opinion.

Part of the high brand value has been based upon the company's excellent aftermarket support, even for third- or fourth-hand owners of quite old Oysters. I wonder how much this sad development will adversely affect resale value.

Oyster has also been known for preserving excellent documentation for all of the individual boats: many were semi-custom built, and included various owner-specified equipment. I hope those archives will be preserved, but fear that they will end up in a tip.

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2 hours ago, kiwichas said:

"loosing" or losing their jobs?? Surely....

You're not from around here are you?

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2 hours ago, carcrash said:

The price advantage of building in China is vanishing ...

There's always the Maldives or Sub-Saharan Africa.

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Shame.  Maybe one of the problems was the decision to bring all the construction in-house rather than sharing the risks and profits with their suppliers.  Why get rid of a well proven formula?

As an Oyster owner, of one of the smallest they ever built, and I've never paid them a penny,  the back up from the company is terrific.  

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I always felt Oyster made a relevant product. Their brand appeared strong. It's sad to see the demise of something like that. Don't think it matters where it's built as long as Oyster continue with a strong support program. I think it would be great to see someone buy the brand and continue the tradition. 

They went public stating they closed 2017 with a record order book.! So you wonder why the pull of financial support? Return on investment perhaps not meeting expectations?

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12 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

Oyster Yachts looks like it is no more. Feel for the workforce. 

IIRC, VCs loaded the company up with too much debt? 

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/oyster-yachts-gone-liquidation-2-64825

12 hours ago, us7070 said:

and the people with half-built boats...

it's a pity - i think they are nice boats. i have done a several thousand miles on them, including an ARC. 

Struggle to feel for the people with half built boats when there are many who will wonder how to pay for the mortgage next month.

 

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I always felt Oyster made a relevant product. Their brand appeared strong. It's sad to see the demise of something like that. Don't think it matters where it's built as long as Oyster continue with a strong support program. I think it would be great to see someone buy the brand and continue the tradition. 

Wouldn't shock me if Richard Matthews steps in with a rescue package, rights the company and moves on again. Niklas Zennström style.

I think Presuming Ed nailed it. The investment firm probably over leveraged the company and they couldn't afford the nut.

An £80m order book means nothing if it costs £81m to fulfill those orders and pay the bank....

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1 hour ago, Whinging Pom said:

Shame.  Maybe one of the problems was the decision to bring all the construction in-house rather than sharing the risks and profits with their suppliers.  Why get rid of a well proven formula?

As an Oyster owner, of one of the smallest they ever built, and I've never paid them a penny,  the back up from the company is terrific.  

It's better than you know. 

If you had gone to any Oyster regatta you could have had a free boat checkup from an Oyster mechanic. For anyone prepared to pay Oyster was both the real deal and the best. They were expen$ive but they delivered the goods.

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There was a 'Breaking News' ticker item this morning regarding the company going into liquidation, but nothing on the BBC website as yet.

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16 minutes ago, savoir said:

It's better than you know. 

If you had gone to any Oyster regatta you could have had a free boat checkup from an Oyster mechanic. For anyone prepared to pay Oyster was both the real deal and the best. They were expen$ive but they delivered the goods.

1_cab10ee00e.jpegb_6917fffa3f.jpeg

 

 

© YACHT Russia/A. Grokhovsky

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Any VC company that gets into a unique business ends up fucking it up, seen it in printing and now boat building.  Its not like a normal business.  Its a long term game plan which VC investors aren't interested in. Mathews will buy the remnants for a song and pocket a lazy 65mill and start all over again.  The brand and owner loyalty is too strong for it to fold

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1 hour ago, mad said:

1_cab10ee00e.jpegb_6917fffa3f.jpeg

 

 

© YACHT Russia/A. Grokhovsky

 

Only one model Oyster has ever had a keel fall off.

 

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oyster built brilliant boats, changing the structure on the 825 to a semi bonded frame rather than the "old school" foam structure completely glassed over was not their greatest idea, then taking over the complete build rather than using quality sub contractors with variable costs rather than a fixed cost was another no no, 

the brand is strong the owners always buy the newer bigger models so there is a business to be rescued but deep pockets and a sharp axe are going to be needed

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VCs and private equity companies are two completely different animals. We're talking about private equity here, no VCs would have any interest in Oyster - they're not creating a new market, industry or even product, no big bucks to be made however well they do.

 

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As a couple of anarchists have suggested above, I am just waiting to hear that the shark has stepped back in, and invests a tiny proportion of the 70 million in putting the show back on the road, rehiring 2 or 3 key people making everything shiny again, then selling for a second time, like Michael Schmidt did ....

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3 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

Shame.  Maybe one of the problems was the decision to bring all the construction in-house rather than sharing the risks and profits with their suppliers.  Why get rid of a well proven formula?

As an Oyster owner, of one of the smallest they ever built, and I've never paid them a penny,  the back up from the company is terrific.  

RM had it all worked out. He contracted out the boat building and just ran a marketing operation for most of his years running the business. That way avoided most of the risk. 

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I have had 2 Oysters, a 54 and now a 625. The sense of pride that comes from owning this brand is immense, the feeling of being a part of something special really adds value to the enjoyment of sailing. Oyster have a superb product, sure there was a mistake with the 825 keel but the other 3 models built the same were checked and corrected and with near 100 circumnavigations to their credit the brand is solid as evidenced by the number of boats in the order books and in build. However I would agree that the "contract" business model has a lot of advantages and if Matthews takes the opportunity to buy back in then he will know what is best for the Company, for certain. Meanwhile consider the heartbreak for all those who have worked for decades with the brand, for all those owners out there dependent on the legendary after sales and for all the soon to be owners with boats in build. It is a sad day for British boat building but hopefully only the beginning of another era in the history of one of the finest blue water sailing yachts out there.

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owner sells co to P-E firm in 2008 for 70 Million pounds (over $100 US), current owner, a P-E firm paid 15 Million pounds in 2011.....not off to a strong start...

 

if you've ever worked in a company owned by P-E, there is focus on profit to the detriment of most all else....discussions of product, design, quality...employee relations.....are not on the table......a lethal mix in the boat building business..

 

 

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5 hours ago, mad said:

1_cab10ee00e.jpegb_6917fffa3f.jpeg

 

 

© YACHT Russia/A. Grokhovsky

well obviously not *that* one.

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7 hours ago, Soley said:

Struggle to feel for the people with half built boats when there are many who will wonder how to pay for the mortgage next month.

 

the only reason that the boat builders had the jobs that paid mortgages in the first place was that people were willing to step up and buy the boats - risking deposits and so on.

so, it's okay to feel for both groups

 

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3 hours ago, Hugh Johnson said:

I have had 2 Oysters, a 54 and now a 625

I did some sailing on a 625 - i thought it was a great cruising boat.., extremely comfortable, and well built. It sailed quite well too, for such a large boat. The systems are complicated - but that's normal for a modern boat that size. I felt very safe offshore on the boat - as I have on other Oyster yachts. 

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3 hours ago, yikes said:

 

if you've ever worked in a company owned by P-E, there is focus on profit to the detriment of most all else....discussions of product, design, quality...employee relations.....are not on the table......a lethal mix in the boat building business..

 

 

Boy is that ever true. I worked at a company that was acquired by some suits in a building - they looked at the employees, the supplies, the services, the management, the building, the brand and everything else as profit centers they could make a buck off of in order to generate more money for themselves. The business itself was secondary to everything else.

I quit and started my own company. Best decision I ever made.

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15 hours ago, RKoch said:

I think there were 4 built of that model. Presumably with same keel structure. That's millions to fix.

From what i remember reading that particular boat had been extended longer than the normal model and they had spec'd more glass but the same amount of resin for the layup. The problem was only with that hull iirc. 

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30 minutes ago, us7070 said:

the only reason that the boat builders had the jobs that paid mortgages in the first place was that people were willing to step up and buy the boats - risking deposits and so on.

so, it's okay to feel for both groups

 

You are absolutely right. While I doubt anyone who paid to build a new Oyster is put in financial crisis by this, I am sure it would make you sick to your stomach to lose a huge chunk of change with nothing in return.

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30 minutes ago, us7070 said:

I did some sailing on a 625 - i thought it was a great cruising boat.., extremely comfortable, and well built. It sailed quite well too, for such a large boat. The systems are complicated - but that's normal for a modern boat that size. I felt very safe offshore on the boat - as I have on other Oyster yachts. 

I recently finished 2 seasons running a 655. The build quality was very conservative but to a high standard. I could see the same build techniques as were on a boat built in the UK in the early 80's I ran for a while. There were a couple of shortcuts but nothing major.

Although I doubt Oyster would be my choice of builder, I can see why they have been very successful and they deserve to be a premier boat builder.

 

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58 minutes ago, Rusty_Pipes said:

It seems the debt load rather than build quality was the culprit here.

Classic vulture capitalism - buy a solid company, sell off any profitable segments, load up the carcass with debt and walk away with the money.

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If you do a  Google ....oyster yachts for sale you can find many many many....

the market is flooded with brokerage boats that are only a few years old.

not much has changed with yacht design...no need to buy a new one when you can buy a used one at half price 

you can pretty much say the same for all the big builders...brokerage swans are stacked up like cordwood 

 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Classic vulture capitalism - buy a solid company, sell off any profitable segments, load up the carcass with debt and walk away with the money.

well, often they need to borrow money to buy the business - most businesses are financed by a combination of debt and equity.., not everyone has enough money to buy a huge business outright.

don't forget that nobody is forcing the lenders to lend the buyers any money - presumably, they looked at the project and figured they would get repaid. but the lenders do get it wrong sometimes...  Certainly, worldwide central bank policies that have led to an extremely low interest rate environment over the last decade have made it necessary for people with cash to seek out riskier, and higher leverage,  investments than they would have otherwise - that's one of the reasons for the huge growth in private equity firms in the first place. 

did the buyers of Oyster sell off anything? I think it's been through two owners since RM.., and if i understand correctly.., they _added_ a manufacturing facility to the company

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1 hour ago, Soley said:

Although I doubt Oyster would be my choice of builder, I can see why they have been very successful and they deserve to be a premier boat builder.

 

i'm not sure there is any yacht builder out there with higher brand loyalty than Oyster.

 

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I hope there aren't further casualties from this - lots of other small companies in the area do stuff for Oyster.  It's going to be a struggle for some of them.

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16 minutes ago, us7070 said:

well, often they need to borrow money to buy the business - most businesses are financed by a combination of debt and equity.., not everyone has enough money to buy a huge business outright.

don't forget that nobody is forcing the lenders to lend the buyers any money - presumably, they looked at the project and figured they would get repaid. but the lenders do get it wrong sometimes...  Certainly, worldwide central bank policies that have led to an extremely low interest rate environment over the last decade have made it necessary for people with cash to seek out riskier, and higher leverage,  investments than they would have otherwise - that's one of the reasons for the huge growth in private equity firms in the first place. 

did the buyers of Oyster sell off anything? I think it's been through two owners since RM.., and if i understand correctly.., they _added_ a manufacturing facility to the company

True.... They invested and invested in the company to own the whole thing. Manufacturing was bought and run in house unlike the good old days in UK manufacturing. 

My understanding was that the previous builders were exceptional!!

Would be a real shame to see the brand die, its been a pillar of yachting based in the UK for many years and it would be a great shame for that to end now

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16 minutes ago, npf1 said:

I hope there aren't further casualties from this - lots of other small companies in the area do stuff for Oyster.  It's going to be a struggle for some of them.

Yep. I have a vested interest in this sad event as my partner works for a company who supply to Oyster and the majority of their business is Oyster. So we have possible financial implications..

 

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38 minutes ago, us7070 said:

 

i'm not sure there is any yacht builder out there with higher brand loyalty than Oyster.

 

Hinckley

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4 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Hinckly

 

not sure i agree - anyway, they basically stopped building sailboats - except for the daysailer - a decade or more ago, so owners would have been forced to go elsewhere

edit - i forgot about the new 50.., but that's not been much of a success...

also - think about the comparison - 50" is a big sailboat for hinckley.., but Oyster hardly built any boats smaller than that over the last few years

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7 hours ago, Hugh Johnson said:

The sense of pride that comes from owning this brand is immense, the feeling of being a part of something special really adds value to the enjoyment of sailing.

As already stated, I like Oysters. I think they are fine yachts, with good designs (both Holman and Humphreys), high quality builds, and excellent after-sales service.

That said, you are drinking the marketing Kool-Aid. The idea that 'luxury' and 'prestige' are desirable qualities that magically transform the consumer of expensive yachts/cars/watches/clothes/hotels/charge cards into a sexier, smarter, happier, generally more attractive and "special" person is just a bunch of hype.

How much money one has, or the make of the boat one sails, may be helpful for posing ... but have no real effect on the enjoyment of sailing.

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7 minutes ago, Svanen said:

As already stated, I like Oysters. I think they are fine yachts, with good designs (both Holman and Humphreys), high quality builds, and excellent after-sales service.

That said, you are drinking the marketing Kool-Aid. The idea that 'luxury' and 'prestige' are desirable qualities that magically transform the consumer of expensive yachts/cars/watches/clothes/hotels/charge cards into a sexier, smarter, happier, generally more attractive and "special" person is just a bunch of hype.

How much money one has, or the make of the boat one sails, may be helpful for posing ... but have no real effect on the enjoyment of sailing.

 

you must not have read HJ's post before commenting on it...

he didn't mention anything about "luxury", "prestige", sexier".., or any of the other stuff..

He just said he enjoyed owning the boat, and the camaraderie of the owners - which I have experienced a bit myself as a family member owns one...

what's wrong with that?

 

 

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Oyster had a niche in the Mid size boats  .   They are nothing special in the big range .

yards like Baltic  produce special boats and they have  loyal clients with deep pockets.

same with builders in the Netherlands.

Oyster was going after that market ...it didnt work 

IMG_8066.jpg

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10 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Mathews will buy the remnants for a song and pocket a lazy 65mill and start all over again.  The brand and owner loyalty is too strong for it to fold

He’s still involved with Gunfleet Marine, so might well just carry on with that.

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4 hours ago, Rusty_Pipes said:

It seems the debt load rather than build quality was the culprit here.

perhaps....but the company was bought for a song on the second pass...perhaps they assumed some debt also....

 

but, i'm guessing that product liability claims, and blood sucking fees from the p-e firm were a larger issue.

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It seems that there is some confusion about the actual status of Oyster Yachts, with the CEO stating they are not in liquidation or administration yet...

from the superyacht news  http://www.superyachtnews.com/business/oyster-yachts-

 

Quote

Oyster Yachts, the renowned British sailing yacht manufacturer, has, according to a number of sources, entered into liquidation after announcing a record £80million-plus order book on 10 January 2018. Reportedly, the Southampton-based superyacht builder has informed all staff, some 160 individuals, that they will be losing their jobs. SuperyachtNews speaks exclusively with David Tydeman, CEO of Oyster Yachts.

“We are not in administration at the moment and we are not in liquidation,” starts Tydeman. “Yesterday, however, we did start a consultation with all staff about potential redundancy, because we do not have the means to pay them at the moment.”

It has been suggested that HTP Investments, the Dutch financial vehicle that purchased Oyster Yachts in 2012 for around £15million, has withdrawn its financial support from the enterprise, this follows a period of investment that saw Oyster Yachts expand the facilities at its Southampton Shipyard in 2017 and continue to invest in new designs and models, including the new Oyster 745 that was launched at Boot Dusseldorf in January. Tydeman was unable to comment on company’s current position.

“It is with sincere regret that we advise that the company [Oyster Yachts] has been unable to secure financial support to enable it to continue to trade at this time and it is looking at all opportunities available. Further information will be issued as soon as we can,” reads a statement from Tydeman on the company’s website. The admission that financial support has led to the closure of operations at Oyster lends credence to the suggestion that the closure comes as a result of HTP Investments removing its funding.

As well as a series of sub-30m projects, the size range for which Oyster Yachts was best known, the British stalwart also has two 37.45m Oyster 118 projects currently in build, due for delivery in 2018 and 2020.  Work on both superyachts and all other vessels has been suspended.

Oyster Yachts becomes one of many superyacht shipyards to cease operation over the last 10 years, indeed in 2008 there was 268 vessels delivered across 118 shipyards, by comparison there was only 124 vessels delivered in 2017 across 51 shipyards. 

“We are going to conclude the next steps day by day and we are chasing every option available to use. We’ve had to stop boat building at the moment, close the doors and we are just trying to protect the building, the assets and everything else. Our priority right now is our staff and boat owners,” concludes Tydeman.

Oyster Yachts is yet to release a full statement, but SuperyachtNews will provide an update on the situation as more details continue to be released. A full statement is due in the coming days.

 

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Classic vulture capitalism - buy a solid company, sell off any profitable segments, load up the carcass with debt and walk away with the money.

¿Classic? That, my friend, has nothing to do with capitalism. Socialist governments have done that to virtually every country they've ruled.

Capitalism is actually the opposite.

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9 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

¿Classic? That, my friend, has nothing to do with capitalism. Socialist governments have done that to virtually every country they've ruled.

Capitalism is actually the opposite.

not only that, but it appears that the first buyers sold at a loss... I think they bought Oyster a few months before the 2008 crash...

and the second buyers actually invested money in addition the initial purchase, both in plant/equipment and salaries, which they are probably now going to loose.

it doesn't look like anyone took any money out of the business, unless you count the sale by the founder RM..., indicating that  sloopjonb's "analysis" is completely wrong - unless he can provide some evidence...

 

 

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3 hours ago, us7070 said:

 

i'm not sure there is any yacht builder out there with higher brand loyalty than Oyster.

 

Swan springs to mind by far. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Swan springs to mind by far. 

swan builds more boats.., but if you measure brand loyalty by the percentage of owners who buy the same brand when upgrading.., i'm not sure that swan would rate as high as oyster..

i have no actual data though

i spent a week at the swan yard - loved it..., amazing place with incredibly dedicated employees.., so i have nothing against swan.., and would agree that on the whole, swans are better boats than oysters - at least in terms of what i like in a boat...

but i'm not sure about the brand loyalty

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1 minute ago, us7070 said:

swan builds more boats.., but if you measure brand loyalty by the percentage of owners who buy the same brand when upgrading.., i'm not sure that swan would rate as high as oyster..

i have no actual data though

i spent a week at the swan yard - loved it..., amazing place with incredibly dedicated employees.., so i have nothing against swan.., and would agree that on the whole, swans are better boats than oysters - at least in terms of what i like in a boat...

but i'm not sure about the brand loyalty

Royal Huisman rate very highly for brand loyalty if we’re basing this on number of boats built, admittedly in a different price bracket. Large super yachts such as Feadship are similar as well. 

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50 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

¿Classic? That, my friend, has nothing to do with capitalism. Socialist governments have done that to virtually every country they've ruled.

Capitalism is actually the opposite.

No it's not; that is exactly what Mitt Romney did, in his heyday as a Vulture Capitalist...

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3 hours ago, us7070 said:

you must not have read HJ's post before commenting on it...

he didn't mention anything about "luxury", "prestige", sexier".., or any of the other stuff..

He just said he enjoyed owning the boat, and the camaraderie of the owners - which I have experienced a bit myself as a family member owns one...

Oh, I read it.

Apparently you read it differently than I do. We'll agree to disagree.

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23 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Oh, I read it.

Apparently you read it differently than I do. We'll agree to disagree.

There is an intangible value to brand identity and community. C&C owners collectively support the old boats incredibly well compared to most boats out there. If you buy a C&C, even an ancient one, you are buying into a supportive community. Other boats......well sometimes not so much.

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1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

There is an intangible value to brand identity and community. C&C owners collectively support the old boats incredibly well compared to most boats out there. If you buy a C&C, even an ancient one, you are buying into a supportive community. Other boats......well sometimes not so much.

Not sure, but I would expect Sabre's to have a similar supportive following?  And I you believe Uncooperative Tom, who sold a metric shit ton of Mac 26's, they most certainly do as we.., right Tom! 

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33 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Not sure, but I would expect Sabre's to have a similar supportive following?  

Sabres do.  Extremely active listserv with almost half of the sailboat hulls built accounted for in membership. Members support each other on and off the water with information and material and logistic help. Sabre yachts continues to support sailing owners with information and parts. 

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59 minutes ago, sshow bob said:

Sabres do.  Extremely active listserv with almost half of the sailboat hulls built accounted for in membership. Members support each other on and off the water with information and material and logistic help. Sabre yachts continues to support sailing owners with information and parts. 

And what about the Mac 26's that Tom sold?  Did they all include a Mini 14 Ranch Rifle, like mine for onboard protection?  It's the perfect Home/boat protection firearm.!  Short barrel, for easy maneuvarability in close quarters, Semi-Auto, NATO rounds, just like the SCARY BLACK AR15!,  and while the SS barrel and bits are not true Stainless Steel, they are coated with some silver stuff to prevent rust.  I have been told by many people, that it is a very much preffered personal protection firearm amongst cruisers.  One of the reasons I acquired, in the event that we become cruisers, should we ever retire from work.

 

I know, take it to PA, right?  Just kidding, but I am sure that there a lot of other online communities about quality built boats over the years, besides the C&C's and Sabres, and probably deserves it's on thread, as I can' t arsed, and my pillow is calling me for 05:00 Revellie, and another 9 hour day in the salt mine! LOL

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41 minutes ago, sshow bob said:

Well, I can't speak to the Mad 26's.  I don't carry a Mini 14 on the Sabre. 

Great boats the Sabres are!  Used to put them together and do some deliveries, back in the day, when Mom and her Partners brokerage in Essex, CT, sold them...

I was just taking the piss out of Tom about the Mini 14......

But, I have one, so as to be properly prepared for the end of times, should they arise in the next 20 years, which is my probably lifetime..

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We love ours.  Its a 34-2, so the last of Hewson's original breed, if his second chapter.  I've wanted one for a long time, and was fortunate to be able finally to get one with Selma two summers ago.  

We acquired our end of times property this fall - and yes, there's a Mini 14 there.

SSB

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23 hours ago, kiwichas said:

"loosing" or losing their jobs?? Surely....

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16 hours ago, savoir said:

 

Only one model Oyster has ever had a keel fall off.

 

Yep and it sticks. I only fucked one lousy goat.

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7 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Oyster had a niche in the Mid size boats  .   They are nothing special in the big range .

yards like Baltic  produce special boats and they have  loyal clients with deep pockets.

same with builders in the Netherlands.

Oyster was going after that market ...it didnt work 

 

Odd that they didn't come to you for some business advice. Owned a few Oysters have you dick breath?

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There was always a little note in the annual reports, page 21, discussing the 21M in debt, saying something like

"Amounts owed [by Oyster] are unsecured and repayable on demand. An amount of 15M (2015: 16.5M) is interest bearing [at] 3.25% (2015: 10.5%). All other amounts owed are interest free."

So it sounds like the financial backers first gave Oyster a break for the year, dropping the loan amount for the purchase from 10.5% down to 3.25%. Kind of a weird thing for a purchaser to do, to charge the company for buying the company, but I've seen this before: its accounting. This is a nice gift to the company, but I bet the assumption was that the company would be pretty darn profitable. 

So perhaps the financial backers saw the cash in the drawer from all the deposits on the 80M backlog and figured that it would be smarter to just take all the cash, rather than wait for the original 15M to be repaid at 0.1M per year, with the odd 6M loss when a keel falls off... If the amount in the drawer was 80M, then they actually made a decent profit over the 15M purchase plus 10M investments.

Numbers are approximate of course. You can read the financial statements, they were included in an earlier post.

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