midcoastsailor

best new foiler for beginner?

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21 hours ago, Major Tom said:

The reality is that foiling is for above average skill sailors, full stop. If you don’t understand apparent wind and have above average boat handling skills on a normal dinghy then you should not be trying to foil before you have mastered these basic skills. Once you are on foils a modern up to date state of the art moth is probably the easiest boat to foil in a straight line, simply because it has been so well developed over time that every system is better than those on any ‘beginner’ production boat. 

I am the living proof ....... not true at all.

My first ever dinghy was the Skeeta, never sailed using a tiller (my biggest issue btw...... do not touch the damn thing). This is my 4th year sailing and I am 56 years old (after 3 years sailing a hobie adventure). Foiling is way easier then everybody thinks. Apparent wind in a foiler is easy ....... you feel it moving (like on a bike). This year I bought a laser EPS (just for fun) and way more difficult to feel the apparent wind. I struggle more in the EPS than the Skeeta.

You need some feel for the wind in your sails and have a good feeling for balance. I tried a Waszp as well, could not even sail it, Skeeta took me an hour and up on the foils (just short 10 seconds runs). Now I just foil straight lines, bring it down and turn (still slow, but who cares..... just a matter of time and I will get it). Will I ever be competitive..... nope, but not my goal.

Most sailors need to get rid of leeward sailing and hicking habits, I do not and was up on the foils way faster then my sailing buddy's (all lifetime laser sailors). The big difference is marginal conditions...... they foil and I "search" for wind. But enough wind, you always have enough pressure in your sail to foil (not rocket sience).

Am I the exception, maybe..... but several inexpierenced sailors tried my Skeeta, most just do it pretty fast. Kids will probaly pick this up very fast.

If you can sail a bit, just try the Skeeta you will be amazed how easy it is.

 

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26 minutes ago, prettig said:

Am I the exception, maybe..... but several inexpierenced sailors tried my Skeeta, most just do it pretty fast. Kids will probaly pick this up very fast.

You are right on the money. It is challenging, but people can learn it real fast with good instruction.

If you learned your sailing on slow boats, you might have a lot to unlearn. 

If you are going to learn it on your own, without instruction, then it can be a long road. Still rewarding :-)

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On 6/24/2020 at 6:47 PM, Major Tom said:

I had the only foiler in Africa and learnt to gybe by watching you tube videos, it took me 4 sessions to nail my first gybe and after that it was easy, tacking was more of a lucky thing, but I was sailing a Bladerider with standard foils and wand which in hindsight made things a bit harder. 

That is a pretty amazing feat.

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On 7/1/2020 at 6:17 PM, prettig said:

I am the living proof ....... not true at all.

My first ever dinghy was the Skeeta, never sailed using a tiller (my biggest issue btw...... do not touch the damn thing). This is my 4th year sailing and I am 56 years old (after 3 years sailing a hobie adventure). Foiling is way easier then everybody thinks. Apparent wind in a foiler is easy ....... you feel it moving (like on a bike). This year I bought a laser EPS (just for fun) and way more difficult to feel the apparent wind. I struggle more in the EPS than the Skeeta.

You need some feel for the wind in your sails and have a good feeling for balance. I tried a Waszp as well, could not even sail it, Skeeta took me an hour and up on the foils (just short 10 seconds runs). Now I just foil straight lines, bring it down and turn (still slow, but who cares..... just a matter of time and I will get it). Will I ever be competitive..... nope, but not my goal.

Most sailors need to get rid of leeward sailing and hicking habits, I do not and was up on the foils way faster then my sailing buddy's (all lifetime laser sailors). The big difference is marginal conditions...... they foil and I "search" for wind. But enough wind, you always have enough pressure in your sail to foil (not rocket sience).

Am I the exception, maybe..... but several inexpierenced sailors tried my Skeeta, most just do it pretty fast. Kids will probaly pick this up very fast.

If you can sail a bit, just try the Skeeta you will be amazed how easy it is.

I had a Laser EPS in the past too, and I confirm it is a very fun and great boat which gives you good sensations !

Your feedback on skeeta is very interesting, and I think it's  a boat very similar to UFO, with an easy handling

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On 7/1/2020 at 6:45 PM, martin 'hoff said:

You are right on the money. It is challenging, but people can learn it real fast with good instruction.

If you learned your sailing on slow boats, you might have a lot to unlearn. 

If you are going to learn it on your own, without instruction, then it can be a long road. Still rewarding :-)

I took some Skeeta lessons (4 x 1 hour), most important points I learned:

 

- first windward is your friend (forget leeward, just stop and get it flat or windward )

- get up on the foils (beginners): beam reach, flat boat, get some speed, bear off a bit, go up, heel windward and sheet in

    - it's more like a roll-off-roll-on movement............ roll off the wind and roll on to the wind

    - The roll on is like rolling into the apperent wind (it's pretty instant, so sheet in fast). 

    - First time I felt the sail "hanging" on the wind was the "aha" moment, just hang.....nothing happens, windward you can just drag through the water and still get up, just keep it windward.

    - Exercise: do not try to foil (wand almost down) and try to sail windward and keep going (even if you are half submerged), you will feel how much control you have windward.

 

- on foils: sit still (on edge off tramps), sheet first, than body and last rudder (micro movements)

- Light winds: sit back (more angle and less pressure on front foil), once going up......move forward fast to level the boat (or you will dive !).

 

This training did help me a lot and still learning......

 

 

 

 

 

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So does anyone know if Melges has received their first shipment of Skeeta's?   If so, has anyone on the forum bought one or had a chance to sail one?   Curious to hear from someone with direct experience here!

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Spoke with Ed Cox at Melges, they are due in next week, with delivery due out from Wisconsin the 8th of September.  

Are there any foilers here in the Los Angeles area ? I was going to keep it up near the Gorge, but since the Pandemic, I am thinking about sailing in Southern California instead.

I have spoken with CYC in Marina del Ray, wonder if there are other places I should consider sailing out of ABYC/ Long Beach ?

 

 

 

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On 8/20/2020 at 4:42 AM, mstuart said:

Spoke with Ed Cox at Melges, they are due in next week, with delivery due out from Wisconsin the 8th of September.  

So has anyone sailed a Skeeta in the US yet?  I'm eager to hear what the sailors think, particularly those that have experience rigging and sailing the Waszp, UFO, and/or Moth.  

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On 8/20/2020 at 1:42 AM, mstuart said:

Spoke with Ed Cox at Melges, they are due in next week, with delivery due out from Wisconsin the 8th of September.  

Are there any foilers here in the Los Angeles area ? I was going to keep it up near the Gorge, but since the Pandemic, I am thinking about sailing in Southern California instead.

I have spoken with CYC in Marina del Ray, wonder if there are other places I should consider sailing out of ABYC/ Long Beach ?

 

 

 

There are Moths & A Cats (& a few others) in Southern California. You might consider joining the West Coast Moth FB group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/694829203913174/

 

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On 7/1/2020 at 12:17 PM, prettig said:

I am the living proof ....... not true at all.

My first ever dinghy was the Skeeta, never sailed using a tiller (my biggest issue btw...... do not touch the damn thing). This is my 4th year sailing and I am 56 years old (after 3 years sailing a hobie adventure). Foiling is way easier then everybody thinks. Apparent wind in a foiler is easy ....... you feel it moving (like on a bike). This year I bought a laser EPS (just for fun) and way more difficult to feel the apparent wind. I struggle more in the EPS than the Skeeta.

You need some feel for the wind in your sails and have a good feeling for balance. I tried a Waszp as well, could not even sail it, Skeeta took me an hour and up on the foils (just short 10 seconds runs). Now I just foil straight lines, bring it down and turn (still slow, but who cares..... just a matter of time and I will get it). Will I ever be competitive..... nope, but not my goal.

Most sailors need to get rid of leeward sailing and hicking habits, I do not and was up on the foils way faster then my sailing buddy's (all lifetime laser sailors). The big difference is marginal conditions...... they foil and I "search" for wind. But enough wind, you always have enough pressure in your sail to foil (not rocket sience).

Am I the exception, maybe..... but several inexpierenced sailors tried my Skeeta, most just do it pretty fast. Kids will probaly pick this up very fast.

If you can sail a bit, just try the Skeeta you will be amazed how easy it is.

 

Your comment and Toms thay you repkied to are straifht out of windsurfing. Same arguments. Same result too just 40 years ago.

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You guys are really fooling yourselves, a good dinghy sailor will be able to adapt to any new things far quicker than a completer novice. 

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What baffles even some good dinghy sailors with a foiler is the accelleration on take off. The apparent wind quickly goes well forward and unless the sail is sheeted in rapidly, the sail flutters and the boat heals excessively to windward and falls over. A tight leach and flat sail helps. 10 to 12 kts wind and flat water is ideal.

I have seen moderately good sailors master it immedialey and others take some time. I have also seen some competant sailors buy moths and spend a year just getting started. Sailboard experience is good for balancing weight against the rig.

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After the first year I believe we can compare it nicely (to some extent). I can foil (very inexperienced sailor). Sailing buddy's (life time dinghy/cat sailors), do it better. We all do straight lines for now (gybes ........attempts).

I have/had huge problems with the rudder movements and I need stronger winds. If I crash, 90% sure wrong rudder movement (good dinghy sailors just do not have this, natural to them). Also my buddy's just instantly get up with less wind, I (still) struggle. Sailing expierence clearly helps.

Speed/accelaration, I am a slalom waterskier (short line), I never had the feeling that the skeeta was fast at all (even crashes are easy). All relative.......

Balancing, natural to me. Just feels like I am on a giant ski high on the water (i use to air chair years ago). It was a real aha moment for me, first longer flights and you feel something you already know, really funny.

 

Guess foilng is a mix of techniques, wish I had started sailing earlier.......great fun.......

 

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Prettig:

Tiller too sensitive at speed:  Add a strong shock cord to centre the rudder. You will need to push harder when turning but it will be more stable in straight lines. 

Take off: Heal the boat to windward slightly. Its also faster when you  get going, especially upwind. This feels un natural to everyone except sailboard sailors.

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1 hour ago, Phil S said:

 

Take off: Heal the boat to windward slightly.

A great light wind take off technique is to roll the boat "on top of you" as if you were roll tacking. Get it heeled then trim to lift your butt off the water. Works on the ufo, seems to work on all of them.

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Thx guys..... I can do it (roll on top off you) and works fine, I just need more wind than my buddy's (they have a better feel for the wind than I do...... just more expierenced sailors). If I roll, they do not need the roll......... if they roll, I probally have to pump.....

The shock cord........ I try that, we just kept the standard one (not that strong) and maybe I should just add an extra shock cord. This year was the frist time in my life I actually used a tiller .....:) 

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