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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
AmericanVagrant

Sold everything to sail the world...boat sunk on day 2

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22 minutes ago, LB 15 said:
5 hours ago, Zonker said:

 It is the buoy furthest offshore from a harbour and is usually where a pilot is taken aboard. They are typically in about 30m of water or more and are usually, but not always marked with a Fairway Buoy. If there are particular dangers to be avoided, the usual lateral marks are used. 

 

And here i was teaching people for 25 years that this symbol was to indicate a pilot boarding area.

image.png.bc4327bbcd308ac7631c877f24dc1b1e.png

Turns out that all along that is what a safe water mark is for. I wonder why they use them outside of Harbours that don't have pilots operating? We have several here. Oddly enough the ships take pilot several miles out to sea of them. I guess our Australian Pilots didn't get the memo.

Clearly Zonker is another Yank that's never left the shores of 'Murca.

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37 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

It's seems you're quibbling over the proper way to tell the story in the drawing room. Many of us don't own smoking jackets or ascots, and can navigate perfectly fine without the Pip Pip Cheerio! forms of the Queen's way of referring to navaids. And we also tend to give fuck-all about what an RYA instructor thinks of us or our abilities.

It it also doesn't matter fuck-all if you call it a sea buoy, a fairway buoy, or a "big, floating, stripey thing" so long as you understand what it means and know how to use it.

In fact, I'd be willing to guess that a great number of people have navigated successfully without knowing any more of the Queen's English than how to order a beer and ask directions to the heads, and call the big, floating, stripey things "havböja" or " bouée de mer" or whatever other term they use that the RYA does not approve of.

Seriously BJ - you have met me - do I seem like the smoking jacket kind of guy? Zonker brought the RYA into the discussion, not me. You know better than anyone how this game works. KRoch gets all preachy and starts telling me I don't know how to navigate so i respond showing how ignorant he is. Then it escalates into cross pacific name calling and stereotyping. It is what we do. :) As for the RYA Yachtmaster, it can be used as a professional qualification, so using correct terminology is important, because if they don't understand that, what else has been missed in their education? Most cruisers navigate safely (and very conservatively) and many think they are competent. Many undertake the Yachtmaster exam to find out if they are right. 

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2 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Clearly Zonker is another Yank that's never left the shores of 'Murca.

I thought he was Canadian? So tell me - is the purpose of a SWM for ships to take pilot? 

And BTW i respect Zonker's vast experience and knowledge. But he does like to try and prove I am wrong. Hey one day he might even be able to do it.

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And BJ cut me some slack - I got a bit on at the moment, giving shit to the gun nuts over in the school shooting thread...

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11 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Seriously BJ - you have met me - do I seem like the smoking jacket kind of guy? Zonker brought the RYA into the discussion, not me. You know better than anyone how this game works. KRoch gets all preachy and starts telling me I don't know how to navigate so i respond showing how ignorant he is. Then it escalates into cross pacific name calling and stereotyping. It is what we do. :) As for the RYA Yachtmaster, it can be used as a professional qualification, so using correct terminology is important, because if they don't understand that, what else has been missed in their education? Most cruisers navigate safely (and very conservatively) and many think they are competent. Many undertake the Yachtmaster exam to find out if they are right. 

I probably couldn't pass it because I don't use your terminology. If you aren't using it for professional qualifications it's less relevant. I can honestly say that in sixteen months here in Oz I've never once had a discussion with an Australian over the proper name for a navaid.

I know you aren't a smoking jacket kind of guy, but that's how it's coming off.

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

And BJ cut me some slack - I got a bit on at the moment, giving shit to the gun nuts over in the school shooting thread...

Well yes, that should continue.

I avoid the gun threads assiduously.

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4 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I probably couldn't pass it because I don't use your terminology. If you aren't using it for professional qualifications it's less relevant. I can honestly say that in sixteen months here in Oz I've never once had a discussion with an Australian over the proper name for a navaid.

I know you aren't a smoking jacket kind of guy, but that's how it's coming off.

I have a reefer jacket from when I was a director of the yacht club. I might go put it on.

 

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25 minutes ago, LB 15 said:
28 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I probably couldn't pass it because I don't use your terminology. If you aren't using it for professional qualifications it's less relevant. I can honestly say that in sixteen months here in Oz I've never once had a discussion with an Australian over the proper name for a navaid.

I know you aren't a smoking jacket kind of guy, but that's how it's coming off.

I have a reefer jacket from when I was a director of the yacht club. I might go put it on.

A bit warm for that, isn't it?

I have an old hapi coat that I used to wear playing bass in a reggae band. Is that close to the same thing?

FB- Doug

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44 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I have a reefer jacket from when I was a director of the yacht club. I might go put it on.

 

I have my great-grandfather's smoking hat and his pipe. Did your jacket come with a pack of Zig-Zags?

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17 minutes ago, cameron said:

A fairway buoy can also have the flash characteristic MoA (dot dash). 

slang...MoA...was the term used on my first ocean racing experience ...1968 SORC...and sea buoy...however I did learn the proper name in this thread and it is not much harder to say...

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26 minutes ago, cameron said:

A fairway buoy can also have the flash characteristic MoA (dot dash). 

That's because it is a safe water mark. Mo A or LFL are the available light caritoristics of a SWM. We have a SWM near here 'named' the NW fairway.  We also have two transit (range) markers called the coffee pots. But that doesn't mean you can get a large latte there. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I have my great-grandfather's smoking hat and his pipe. Did your jacket come with a pack of Zig-Zags?

No a pipe. Something for putting in my mouth. :) 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I thought he was Canadian? So tell me - is the purpose of a SWM for ships to take pilot? 

And BTW i respect Zonker's vast experience and knowledge. But he does like to try and prove I am wrong. Hey one day he might even be able to do it.

Nah.  Nope. Here's how ship's take pilots.   They talk to 'em on the radydidio, after having had their port agent make the initial request with an ETA.  The pilot boat comes out and meets the ship and the pilot gets on anywhere between a half and or three miles (nautical ones).  No shipmaster willingly goes up the spot on the chart whether sea buoy or SWM or whichever, cuz like da pilots can sometimes be late.  Of course, in some s****ole countries they don't really ever come out much beyond the breakwater so you might end up running up the channel a ways.  No worries, they're often really nice and will ask you to wait and hold position in a narrow channel so they can come out and bring you a 'gift'----one green coconut.

True story

 

Edit:  In 15 years of pushing big steel ships all around the world, I never heard, nor needed, to know what a Safe Whatever Buoy Marker was.  Some knowledge is useless.  Some not so much.  'Sea buoy' sufficed....

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8 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Nah.  Nope. Here's how ship's take pilots.   They talk to 'em on the radydidio, after having had their port agent make the initial request with an ETA.  The pilot boat comes out and meets the ship and the pilot gets on anywhere between a half and or three miles (nautical ones).  No shipmaster willingly goes up the spot on the chart whether sea buoy or SWM or whichever, cuz like da pilots can sometimes be late.  Of course, in some s****ole countries they don't really ever come out much beyond the breakwater so you might end up running up the channel a ways.  No worries, they're often really nice and will ask you to wait and hold position in a narrow channel so they can come out and bring you a 'gift'----one green coconut.

True story

 

Edit:  In 15 years of pushing big steel ships all around the world, I never heard, nor needed, to know what a Safe Whatever Buoy Marker was.  Some knowledge is useless.  Some not so much.  'Sea buoy' sufficed....

Great bit of context, Veeger.

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45 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Nah.  Nope. Here's how ship's take pilots.   They talk to 'em on the radydidio, after having had their port agent make the initial request with an ETA.  The pilot boat comes out and meets the ship and the pilot gets on anywhere between a half and or three miles (nautical ones).  No shipmaster willingly goes up the spot on the chart whether sea buoy or SWM or whichever, cuz like da pilots can sometimes be late.  Of course, in some s****ole countries they don't really ever come out much beyond the breakwater so you might end up running up the channel a ways.  No worries, they're often really nice and will ask you to wait and hold position in a narrow channel so they can come out and bring you a 'gift'----one green coconut.

True story

 

Edit:  In 15 years of pushing big steel ships all around the world, I never heard, nor needed, to know what a Safe Whatever Buoy Marker was.  Some knowledge is useless.  Some not so much.  'Sea buoy' sufficed....

Careful now.  LB might pull your credentials.  :P

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Veegs, your story would be even better without the scatological modifier. Doesn't add much, and in fact detracts. Otherwise, informative. Thanks.

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23 minutes ago, lasal said:

Veegs, your story would be even better without the scatological modifier. Doesn't add much, and in fact detracts. Otherwise, informative. Thanks.

Never been one to be particularly enamored with being PC and with this day and age environment, well, it does kinda fit.  I don't know what  your world travels may have been, possibly far more than mine, but here's the truth of the matter----I've been in places where it took 3 days for the mere odooor of the local officials to dissipate from my office and quarters, been 'held up' by officials for 'chicken money' cuz well, quote,  "...Captain, this ship, she takes a lot of money to run, yes?  So, like $300, is chicken money, yes?"  just so the ship and crew (and her gallant captain) can get un-arrested and go about their business of plying the high seas.  Places where the pilot has fewer skills than our erstwhile, unfortunate 2 day veteran world voyagers, and where staying on board was preferable over the sounds of gunshots not far from the dock.   Where your crew's vaccinations consist of a stack of 'shot cards' for the low, low price of $800.  Nope, there's a bunch of places that neither you nor I would want to spend much time in, often because of the greed and avarice of the local gummint.  It really does meet the definition...  YMMV

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58 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

Careful now.  LB might pull your credentials.  :P

A Master 1 that has never heard of a safe water mark? Can I interest you guys in a cheap bridge?

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13 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

A Master 1 that has never heard of a safe water mark? Can I interest you guys in a cheap bridge?

I bow at your feet for your great vocabulary and that you were able to remember this, oh so very critical piece of information. We poor, rebellious cousins and outcasts from the empire tend to focus on what's important and blow off the trivial.  Surely, I'm not worthy....

 

(I'll live....somehow)

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24 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Never been one to be particularly enamored with being PC and with this day and age environment, well, it does kinda fit.  I don't know what  your world travels may have been, possibly far more than mine, but here's the truth of the matter----I've been in places where it took 3 days for the mere odooor of the local officials to dissipate from my office and quarters, been 'held up' by officials for 'chicken money' cuz well, quote,  "...Captain, this ship, she takes a lot of money to run, yes?  So, like $300, is chicken money, yes?"  just so the ship and crew (and her gallant captain) can get un-arrested and go about their business of plying the high seas.  Places where the pilot has fewer skills than our erstwhile, unfortunate 2 day veteran world voyagers, and where staying on board was preferable over the sounds of gunshots not far from the dock.   Where your crew's vaccinations consist of a stack of 'shot cards' for the low, low price of $800.  Nope, there's a bunch of places that neither you nor I would want to spend much time in, often because of the greed and avarice of the local gummint.  It really does meet the definition...  YMMV

I hear you and never assumed you were using a loaded term for political reasons. I've been to most countries in the America's and yes, I've seen corrupt govt and local yocal criminals. What is also consistent is that I've never felt like the whole country was condemnable. Your shakedowns were much worse than mine however.

I did find the context interesting and informative and loom forward to more! Cheers.

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And, LB, your efforts to inform folks on sound seamanship are commendable and despite your forked but comedy-tuned tounge we all know that's your goal.

Likewise, RKoch, your trash talking skills pale in comparison to your decades of sailing experience that enrich everybody here. No shit.

And neither of you suffer hateful fools. Cheers.

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45 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Surely, I'm not worthy....

Perhaps but don't beat your self up about it. Few are.

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4 hours ago, Veeger said:

Nah.  Nope. Here's how ship's take pilots.   They talk to 'em on the radydidio, after having had their port agent make the initial request with an ETA.  The pilot boat comes out and meets the ship and the pilot gets on anywhere between a half and or three miles (nautical ones).  No shipmaster willingly goes up the spot on the chart whether sea buoy or SWM or whichever, cuz like da pilots can sometimes be late.  Of course, in some s****ole countries they don't really ever come out much beyond the breakwater so you might end up running up the channel a ways.  No worries, they're often really nice and will ask you to wait and hold position in a narrow channel so they can come out and bring you a 'gift'----one green coconut.

True story

 

Edit:  In 15 years of pushing big steel ships all around the world, I never heard, nor needed, to know what a Safe Whatever Buoy Marker was.  Some knowledge is useless.  Some not so much.  'Sea buoy' sufficed....

Green coconuts can be pretty tasty if you pour in a slurp of rum.

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On 2/11/2018 at 12:34 AM, Uncooperative Tom said:

.

I'm the biggest cold water sissy in the world 

Not a Chance !!!!! B)

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20 hours ago, Ajax said:

Ok, some people here completely ripped my ass for critiquing them.

Can someone please tell me when enough time has passed to declare that these two are *not* going to clean up their mess, and that they are every bit the irresponsible, loser beggars that I initially thought they were?

I guaran-God-damn-tee that no one is going to offer me an apology when these two skip off with their donations.

You're foaming at the mouth again and have clearly learned nothing about making assumptions.  If they skip off with their donations and don't remove the boat, you can say "I told you so".  Until then, you are still spewing slander with remarkable zeal.  Shame on you.

Quote

He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
 -- Proverbs 18:13

Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
 - Proverbs 29:20

 

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15 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

Until then, you are still spewing slander with remarkable zeal.  Shame on you.

Slander?  Via written word?  And a mere prediction is a false statement of material fact?  Really?

As for the Proverbs, I think you just sentenced the entire weather forecasting industry to hell.

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More or less back on topic, I'm amazed that the boat's structure hasn't been more discussed. If the keel fell off during after a grounding in soft sand, and the hull broke into bits after a few days on the sand, that's pretty astonishing. There's loads of classic plastics that get ran into rocks, sand, or mud and you don't hear about them shattering.

 

Keel bolts seemed an obvious oversight but the disintegration of the hull, especially if the weather was as mild as some have said, seems more disturbing. Was the C-28 especially poorly/ cheaply built? Is this something one should expect from all late 60's polyester boats? Are we now approaching the structural lifespan of the earliest glass boats?

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I had never visited GoFundMe before, so checked out some of the "sailing around the world" hopefuls, in  part because I will hopefully be one soon, and most have gotten $0 so far.

And no, I will not have to go there, I've worked hard for 40 years and will retire soon in good financial shape.

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10 minutes ago, Commercial Boater said:

More or less back on topic, I'm amazed that the boat's structure hasn't been more discussed. If the keel fell off during after a grounding in soft sand, and the hull broke into bits after a few days on the sand, that's pretty astonishing. There's loads of classic plastics that get ran into rocks, sand, or mud and you don't hear about them shattering.

 

Keel bolts seemed an obvious oversight but the disintegration of the hull, especially if the weather was as mild as some have said, seems more disturbing. Was the C-28 especially poorly/ cheaply built? Is this something one should expect from all late 60's polyester boats? Are we now approaching the structural lifespan of the earliest glass boats?

I simply can not imagine the boat breaking up....it was not floating..no pounding if not floating....unless it was struck my another vessel which so far has not been part of the story.....I really do not think it has broken up, rather the term has been misused...I suspect the hull and deck are still together with miscellany still attached surrounding the boat giving the appearance of a larger mass

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3 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I simply can not imagine the boat breaking up....it was not floating..no pounding if not floating....unless it was struck my another vessel which so far has not been part of the story.....I really do not think it has broken up, rather the term has been misused...I suspect the hull and deck are still together with miscellany still attached surrounding the boat giving the appearance of a larger mass

Hard to see what's going on here. Has the cabin trunk sheared off, or is it just partially buried in the sand?

 

Anyone got updated low tide pics?!?

image.thumb.jpeg.a8494b8aba3a0c6d83b42c2942986c59.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, Commercial Boater said:

More or less back on topic, I'm amazed that the boat's structure hasn't been more discussed. If the keel fell off during after a grounding in soft sand, and the hull broke into bits after a few days on the sand, that's pretty astonishing. There's loads of classic plastics that get ran into rocks, sand, or mud and you don't hear about them shattering.

 

Keel bolts seemed an obvious oversight but the disintegration of the hull, especially if the weather was as mild as some have said, seems more disturbing. Was the C-28 especially poorly/ cheaply built? Is this something one should expect from all late 60's polyester boats? Are we now approaching the structural lifespan of the earliest glass boats?

The boat should have been able to withstand hitting a sandbar at hull speed (5+ knots) without the keel coming off, and sustaining only minor structural damage.  I think the 49 year old keel bolts were deteriorated and hadn't been inspected. 

The weather has been mild the past week. I would expect the wooden interior to start coming apart after being submerged for several days. Hull was likely solid glass, and robust. I'm almost 100% certain the deck was cored. Probably plywood, possibly balsa. If the core of the deck became water damaged, the deck would become weakened and start breaking apart. If the deck failed, that would also weaken the hull. If the deck remained structurally sound, then it and the hull should have remained intact even with the interior coming apart, and I have no idea how they broke up. 

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6 hours ago, F'g Dinosaur said:

"filling" ?   do you mean  " filing "  ?    Criminal progeny are often illiterate you know.     Be prideful  you are not recidivist totally.

Ah my PA is back. Where is my coffee bitch? 

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17 hours ago, Veeger said:

Never been one to be particularly enamored with being PC and with this day and age environment, well, it does kinda fit.  I don't know what  your world travels may have been, possibly far more than mine, but here's the truth of the matter----I've been in places where it took 3 days for the mere odooor of the local officials to dissipate from my office and quarters, been 'held up' by officials for 'chicken money' cuz well, quote,  "...Captain, this ship, she takes a lot of money to run, yes?  So, like $300, is chicken money, yes?"  just so the ship and crew (and her gallant captain) can get un-arrested and go about their business of plying the high seas.  Places where the pilot has fewer skills than our erstwhile, unfortunate 2 day veteran world voyagers, and where staying on board was preferable over the sounds of gunshots not far from the dock.   Where your crew's vaccinations consist of a stack of 'shot cards' for the low, low price of $800.  Nope, there's a bunch of places that neither you nor I would want to spend much time in, often because of the greed and avarice of the local gummint.  It really does meet the definition...  YMMV

You are been deliberately vague about your actual role on these travels of yours. So are you claiming you are a Foreign going master? I think your claim to have never heard of a SWM makes it clear you are not. Of course you may just read a lot of Clive Cussler...

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Ah my PA is back. Where is my coffee bitch? 

i wouldn't trust that stunned cunt to get me a cup of water.

 

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3 hours ago, Commercial Boater said:

More or less back on topic, I'm amazed that the boat's structure hasn't been more discussed. If the keel fell off during after a grounding in soft sand, and the hull broke into bits after a few days on the sand, that's pretty astonishing. There's loads of classic plastics that get ran into rocks, sand, or mud and you don't hear about them shattering.

 

Keel bolts seemed an obvious oversight but the disintegration of the hull, especially if the weather was as mild as some have said, seems more disturbing. Was the C-28 especially poorly/ cheaply built? Is this something one should expect from all late 60's polyester boats? Are we now approaching the structural lifespan of the earliest glass boats?

absolutely true.  keel bolts aside that boat must have been ready to come apart if it's already in 3 pieces. Im guessing the hull probably came loose from the deck, rudder broke free as well maybe? my understanding has always been that columbias may have been heavy and slow but were built like tanks, hell several of the colmbia 50's circumnavigated. especially back in the days before we understood how strong fiberglass is so they  overbuilt the hell out of the boats. 

 

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2 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

absolutely true.  keel bolts aside that boat must have been ready to come apart if it's already in 3 pieces. Im guessing the hull probably came loose from the deck, rudder broke free as well maybe? my understanding has always been that columbias may have been heavy and slow but were built like tanks. especially back in the days before we understood how strong fiberglass is so they  overbuilt the hell out of the boats. 

no way that thing is in 3 pieces or even 2...unless it was deliberately  cut apart...there were no natural forces at work strong enough...

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13 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

no way that thing is in 3 pieces or even 2...unless it was deliberately  cut apart...there were no natural forces at work strong enough...

maybe someone ( they) tried unsuccessfully to move it ...

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I have not seen any local media reports lately. Don't know if there's a current salvage operation or not. If they don't act soon, much of their gfm windfall might be going towards fines and lawyers fees.

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1 minute ago, RKoch said:

I have not seen any local media reports lately. Don't know if there's a current salvage operation or not. If they don't act soon, much of their gfm windfall might be going towards fines and lawyers fees.

If the regulating authorities are aware of their GFM largesse, they will certainly press their case.   They might have been better off if they had just slinked of to obscurity somewhere, instead of promoting themselves...

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Not to interject, but even old solid fiberglass hulls assuming no dry or over resined layups are amazingly strong.  Abrasion  can cut through them quickly compared to a steel or aluminum hull, but we're comparing days to weeks in that situation. Cored foam or balsa hulls  (and  cored plywood decks) are much more fragile and will break up quickly especially if not maintained concerning water intrusion. 

Early solid glass hulls' bulkheads, etc., interior connections to an FG liner are typically plywood, tabbed to the hull.  That gets waterlogged and the hull deforms quickly.  After this much time I think their boat is ready for the trash heap except metals recovery and salvage of salt water resistant equipment (winches, anchors, lines, etc.).

 

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8 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

If the regulating authorities are aware of their GFM largesse, they will certainly press their case.   They might have been better off if they had just slinked of to obscurity somewhere, instead of promoting themselves...

they have been hanging around the waterfront, some divers took them out last week not sure what for other than possibly recovering something the two needed documents, stash of cash other personal stuff ......anyway it would not be a stretch  for a scheming  guy with a boat powerful enough to strike a deal for GFM % and drag that wreckage 1/2 mile offshore and no one would ever see it again...

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3 minutes ago, axolotl said:

Not to interject, but even old solid fiberglass hulls assuming no dry or over resined layups are amazingly strong.  Abrasion  can cut through them quickly compared to a steel or aluminum hull, but we're comparing days to weeks in that situation. Cored foam or balsa hulls  (and  cored plywood decks) are much more fragile and will break up quickly especially if not maintained concerning water intrusion. 

Early solid glass hulls' bulkheads, etc., interior connections to an FG liner are typically plywood, tabbed to the hull.  That gets waterlogged and the hull deforms quickly.  After this much time I think their boat is ready for the trash heap except metals recovery and salvage of salt water resistant equipment (winches, anchors, lines, etc.).

 

Agreed. That boat may be pre-liner, with the entire interior tabbed in plywood.  A thought occurred to be that as the boat shifted around on the bottom, some rigging could have broken and the mast acted as a lever tearing shit apart. 

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21 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

they have been hanging around the waterfront, some divers took them out last week not sure what for other than possibly recovering something the two needed documents, stash of cash other personal stuff ......anyway it would not be a stretch  for a scheming  guy with a boat powerful enough to strike a deal for GFM % and drag that wreckage 1/2 mile offshore and no one would ever see it again...

If this fiasco is just around the corner from you, why is there still any mystery about what is happening on scene?  Instead of speculation, how about current facts about the boat or the couple?

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6 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

You're foaming at the mouth again and have clearly learned nothing about making assumptions.  If they skip off with their donations and don't remove the boat, you can say "I told you so".  Until then, you are still spewing slander with remarkable zeal.  Shame on you.

 

It's better to believe in the goodness of people and be wrong sometimes than looking for a reason to find fault.

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14 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

If this fiasco is just around the corner from you, why is there still any mystery about what is happening on scene?  Instead of speculation, how about current facts about the boat or the couple?

I thought about going up there last week...there were very low tides 8-9-10 AM I thought maybe from the bridge with binocs I could see something. I did talk to the SeaTow that did the first rescue and the Captain I spoke with was very familiar with the boat and did know about the GFM and said they had not been incontact with the 2 for any further services. Johns Pass is full of tourists and businesses no way am I going to go sleuthing about in search for the 2 or hearing rumors of what might be happening. If RKoch has a boat that can take me out there I'll go in the water for a look 

 

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Just now, SailBlueH2O said:

I thought about going up there last week...there were very low tides 8-9-10 AM I thought maybe from the bridge with binocs I could see something. I did talk to the SeaTow that did the first rescue and the Captain I spoke with was very familiar with the boat and did know about the GFM ut said they had not been incontact with the 2 for any further services. Johns Pass is full of people and businesses no way am I going to go sleuthing about in search of the 2 or hearing rumors of what might be happening. If RKoch has a boat that can take me out there I go in the water for a look 

There was nothing that could be seen from the bridge last Sunday. Boat I was on hasn't resolved overheating issue, and its owner hasn't heard any news about the sunk boat. My understanding is it's completely underwater now, partially buried in sand, according to the couples FB page (since made private). 

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

If the regulating authorities are aware of their GFM largesse, they will certainly press their case.   They might have been better off if they had just slinked of to obscurity somewhere, instead of promoting themselves...

that would have been the smart move, instead they decided to start a GFM and turned themselves into a lightning rod. 

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

You are been deliberately vague about your actual role on these travels of yours. So are you claiming you are a Foreign going master? I think your claim to have never heard of a SWM makes it clear you are not. Of course you may just read a lot of Clive Cussler...

Yes, LB, I really and truly, pushed oil tankers all over the world for a few years, and, yes, as Master, at 32 years old.  Hmmm, that was 32 years ago.  When we studied that 'other' buoyage system, I did enough learning to pass the test.  But you know what?  Nobody gave a shit after that, the generic 'sea buoy' was pretty well understood.   Consequently, I let my Mark 1, gray matter hard drive, just delete that unnecessary info right out of my brain.  Some people may be really great at remembering the trivia of their book learning.   You ever notice that when you see a buoy on the chart, it really isn't all that hard to tell which side of it you are supposed to go on?  In fact, it's pretty intuitive when combined with GPS, charts with soundings, etc.  Shapes and colors were critical especially in the days when something just loomed up out of the fog.   They even come in handy now for newbs and old salts from time to time.  What was never critical is whether is was called a Safe Water Mark, a Fairway Marker, or a sea buoy.  But I''m glad you've kept that info there in your brain so that it gives you the opportunity to feel both superior and horrified at the ignoramuses all around you.

Back in the day, we used to joke about how different ranks answered the Captain's morning question--"Where are we,?"  The Cadet says,  "Captain, we're right here at 162 degrees 49.81 minutes West and 12 degrees, 15.4 minutes North."  The Third Mate would say, "we're right HERE, sir" as he put his index finger just past the last fix on the chart and quickly add that we only had 693 miles to go.  The Second Mate would wave his index finger at the last position on the chart and say " we're right about here and we'll get in a little early on Friday".  The Chief Mate would say, "Mornin' Cap! we're right around here" as he waved his hand in a 10" radius over the chart and put his palm down on the chart in the similar area.  "Oh, by the way, we're gonna be chipping up around the foc'sle today if the weather stays good.  Probably ought to have Fire and Boat Drill this morning after coffee"

Obviously, these answers wouldn't be very good if the Safe Water Mark was anywhere in the immediate offing...

The most important thing to me was that folks knew what was important at the moment it was important.  For your poor cads in your sailing school, obviously the definition of a Safe Water Mark would be the most important thing to know.  

It's been a long time since it was important to me....

 

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18 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Yes, LB, I really and truly, pushed oil tankers all over the world for a few years, and, yes, as Master, at 32 years old.  Hmmm, that was 32 years ago.  When we studied that 'other' buoyage system, I did enough learning to pass the test.  But you know what?  Nobody gave a shit after that, the generic 'sea buoy' was pretty well understood.   Consequently, I let my Mark 1, gray matter hard drive, just delete that unnecessary info right out of my brain.  Some people may be really great at remembering the trivia of their book learning.   You ever notice that when you see a buoy on the chart, it really isn't all that hard to tell which side of it you are supposed to go on?  In fact, it's pretty intuitive when combined with GPS, charts with soundings, etc.  Shapes and colors were critical especially in the days when something just loomed up out of the fog.   They even come in handy now for newbs and old salts from time to time.  What was never critical is whether is was called a Safe Water Mark, a Fairway Marker, or a sea buoy.  But I''m glad you've kept that info there in your brain so that it gives you the opportunity to feel both superior and horrified at the ignoramuses all around you.

Back in the day, we used to joke about how different ranks answered the Captain's morning question--"Where are we,?"  The Cadet says,  "Captain, we're right here at 162 degrees 49.81 minutes West and 12 degrees, 15.4 minutes North."  The Third Mate would say, "we're right HERE, sir" as he put his index finger just past the last fix on the chart and quickly add that we only had 693 miles to go.  The Second Mate would wave his index finger at the last position on the chart and say " we're right about here and we'll get in a little early on Friday".  The Chief Mate would say, "Mornin' Cap! we're right around here" as he waved his hand in a 10" radius over the chart and put his palm down on the chart in the similar area.  "Oh, by the way, we're gonna be chipping up around the foc'sle today if the weather stays good.  Probably ought to have Fire and Boat Drill this morning after coffee"

Obviously, these answers wouldn't be very good if the Safe Water Mark was anywhere in the immediate offing...

The most important thing to me was that folks knew what was important at the moment it was important.  For your poor cads in your sailing school, obviously the definition of a Safe Water Mark would be the most important thing to know.  

It's been a long time since it was important to me....

 

No mate in my game the most important thing is to spot a bullshit artist. I am pretty good at it as well :) That's the great thing about the interwebs for some people. You can be anything you want to be. 

But keep your stories coming, I am enjoying them. I haven't read any Dirk Pitt books in years.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

There was nothing that could be seen from the bridge last Sunday. Boat I was on hasn't resolved overheating issue, and its owner hasn't heard any news about the sunk boat. My understanding is it's completely underwater now, partially buried in sand, according to the couples FB page (since made private). 

They must have found this thread.

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21 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

They must have found this thread.

The comments I read before they closed it were much worse than here...outright nastiness and hate. 

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25 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

No mate in my game the most important thing is to spot a bullshit artist. I am pretty good at it as well :) That's the great thing about the interwebs for some people. You can be anything you want to be. 

But keep your stories coming, I am enjoying them. I haven't read any Dirk Pitt books in years.

Does LB drive a Porsche or Cactus? I'm betting Porsche.

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29 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

No mate in my game the most important thing is to spot a bullshit artist. I am pretty good at it as well :) That's the great thing about the interwebs for some people. You can be anything you want to be. 

But keep your stories coming, I am enjoying them. I haven't read any Dirk Pitt books in years.

No worries, mate!   (but, pssst, just between you and me?  you're not quite as good as you think you are)

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4 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Does LB drive a Porsche or Cactus? I'm betting Porsche.

No but my bowman has one. And mate can you change legs? You have humped my right one enough. 

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2 minutes ago, Veeger said:

No worries, mate!   (but, pssst, just between you and me?  you're not quite as good as you think you are)

All good Dirk. Say hi to Al, Rudy and Admiral Sandecker for me.

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47 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Hmmmm...Australians in drunken melee aboard cruise ship. LB's inbred relatives.  I guess the captain couldn't find a 'Safe Bouy'. Remaining  passengers get 25% discount their next trip. Yippee. 

 https://m.sfgate.com/news/article/A-Carnival-cruise-in-the-South-Pacific-descended-12622028.php

Drunken Australians?  What are the chances?

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15 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Drunken Australians?  What are the chances?

Chance in a million!

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Hmmmm...Australians in drunken melee aboard cruise ship. LB's inbred relatives.  I guess the captain couldn't find a 'Safe Bouy'. Remaining  passengers get 25% discount their next trip. Yippee. 

 https://m.sfgate.com/news/article/A-Carnival-cruise-in-the-South-Pacific-descended-12622028.php

Got a real hard on for me don't you cup cake. And it's called 'a safe water mark'. You are a tad slow - that story was about 5 days ago. 

Anything interesting happen in the friendly state of Florida over the past few days?

 

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34 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Drunken Australians?  What are the chances?

Bogan cruise ship fuckwits. Cruising is the new Bali. White Trash holidays. 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Bogan cruise ship fuckwits. Cruising is the new Bali. White Trash holidays. 

i think you might find they were a family of Lebs, looking for a fight from the time they got onboard

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22 hours ago, the_abandoned_brane said:
On 2/18/2018 at 4:52 AM, ProaSailor said:

You're foaming at the mouth again and have clearly learned nothing about making assumptions.  If they skip off with their donations and don't remove the boat, you can say "I told you so".  Until then, you are still spewing slander with remarkable zeal.  Shame on you.

 

It's better to believe in the goodness of people and be wrong sometimes than looking for a reason to find fault.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

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3 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

i think you might find they were a family of Lebs, looking for a fight from the time they got onboard

That's racist. They may identify as White Trash.

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13 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

That's racist. They may identify as White Trash.

Racist? What's racist about 23 Lesbians taking over the boat and punching people out?

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