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Shortforbob

Israel joins the party

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-10/israeli-f-16-fighter-jet-shot-down-by-syria,-military-says/9419280

Israel launches 'large-scale attack' in Syria after Israeli F-16 fighter jet shot down

Israel says it has launched air strikes against air defences and Iranian targets in Syria, while the Syrian army claims to have hit an Israeli F-16 that crashed in northern Israel in a major escalation of tension in the region.

Key points:

  • Israel said it sent its jets into Syria after shooting down an Iranian drone reportedly flying over Israeli territory
  • The F-16 crashed on a mission to strike the Iranian drone installations in Syria
  • The Syrian army denied a drone had entered Israeli airspace

 

The Israeli military said the F-16 jet crashed after it came under fire during a mission to strike Iranian drone installations in Syria, after earlier shooting down an Iranian drone reportedly flying over Israeli territory.

Israel's military said its planes struck 12 targets in response, including three aerial defense batteries and four Iranian targets that are part of Iran's military establishment in Syria.

Despite the retaliation, Israel said it did not seek an escalation in the region.

"We are willing, prepared and capable to exact a heavy price from anyone that attacks us, however we are not looking to escalate the situation," a military spokesman said.

"This was a defensive effort triggered by an Iranian act of aggression and we are defending our airspace our sovereignty and civilians."

But the military alliance fighting in support of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said Israeli claims that a drone entered Israeli airspace were a "lie", adding Israel would witness a "severe and serious" response to its "terrorism" from now on.

In a statement, the group said Israel attacked a drone base in central Syria. The alliance added that drones had left the T4 air base in the morning to conduct routine operations against Islamic State in the Syrian desert.

 

Syria fired more than 24 SAM’s at Israeli jets.. much more will be fired in the future at Israeli airports if Israel continues its aggressions. Israelis must realize they have no longer superiority in the skies nor on the ground.

 
 

 

Iranian and Iran-backed forces have established a major foothold in Syria while fighting in support of President Bashar al-Assad.

Iran's expanding clout during Syria's nearly seven-year-long war, including deployments of Iran-backed forces near the Golan frontier, has raised alarm in Israel, which has said it would act against any threat from its regional arch-enemy Tehran.

The clashes marked a dangerous new confrontation between the international powers caught up in Syria's war.

Iranian and Iran-backed Shiite forces, including Lebanon's Hezbollah, have deployed widely in support of Mr Assad.

Iran's military chief warned Israel last October against breaching Syrian airspace and territory.

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Well mates cover each others backs. Or scratch em.

Did you click that link? It's a humanitarian aid site. What's the problem with it?

 

Anyway, this thread is odd. What would Australia do if Indonesia launched an attack drone that was nearly about to hit a city in the Northern Territories? And what would they do if one of your own fighter jets was then shot down as it sought to disconnect the source of those drones? 

People have a right to defend themselves Meli.

And yet, you started this thread while simultaneously ignoring Israel's planned expulsion of Sudanese and Etrian immigrants. Lefty Israelis are protesting that bullshit widely, even to the point that Israeli commercial pilots have declared that they won't pilot planes to leave the country if they have forced expulsions in them.

Now, why the disconnect?

Oh yeah, maybe because Australia, like the USA and now Israel, has allowed immigrant-hating assholes to gain power in their governments?

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It must be tough for Israel to see a jet shot down like that.  Mostly F16s have been used to bomb defenceless Palestinians.

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Waffles, I posted the OP without comment. (pirate dog seems to think it's an israel attack)

This is a political site..is no one concerned if Israel joins the Syrian party? and the possible ramifications if Syria decided to return fire in Israel. Why is the thread odd?

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58 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Waffles, I posted the OP without comment. (pirate dog seems to think it's an israel attack)

This is a political site..is no one concerned if Israel joins the Syrian party? and the possible ramifications if Syria decided to return fire in Israel.

Couldn't care less, actually. As I've said before, a pox on the lot of them.

Having said that, *if* true, flying a drone, especially if it's an armed drone, over someone else's country in a time of active military hostilities (no formal war declaration) rates an armed response.

So *if* in fact the Syrians or their masters the Iranians did fly a drone over Israeli territory, it & they got what they were asking for.

FKT

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Firstly, I somehow doubt the Iranian drone over Israel story.  Would they be dumb enough to do that ... or maybe they had a few SAMs nearing their Use By date and needed some target practice.

But if they did fly drones into Israel, then how fucking dare they!  I mean the concept of foreign drones flying over other peoples countries is criminal.  If it is allowed to go on unchallenged, next they will start killing suspected enemies and bombing wedding parties!!!! 

It's an outrage and the US should join in and condemn the practice ... oh wait, they already have.

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Having said that, *if* true, flying a drone, especially if it's an armed drone, over someone else's country in a time of active military hostilities (no formal war declaration) rates an armed response.

10711-Are-You-Fucking-Kidding-Me.gif?1

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8 hours ago, mikewof said:

Did you click that link? It's a humanitarian aid site. What's the problem with it?

 

Oh yeah, maybe because Australia, like the USA and now Israel, has allowed immigrant-hating assholes to gain power in their governments?

Does the "humanitarian aid site" have ground based drone pilots residing?

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46 minutes ago, warbird said:

Does the "humanitarian aid site" have ground based drone pilots residing?

What?

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Ish, I'm concerned for you - is your latest avatar an example of what you mentally ecdys?

If so, stop it!

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14 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Ish, I'm concerned for you - is your latest avatar an example of what you mentally ecdys?

If so, stop it!

Hey, it took me almost fifteen seconds to find that image. I can't remember what I was actually looking for at the time but it certainly wasn't that.

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Waffles, I posted the OP without comment. (pirate dog seems to think it's an israel attack)

This is a political site..is no one concerned if Israel joins the Syrian party? and the possible ramifications if Syria decided to return fire in Israel. Why is the thread odd?

It's odd because you seemed to have deliberately avoided the elephant in the room of the planned deportations,  which is obviously not okay, and focused on their decision to defend themselves.

You don't post anything here without comment, you suggested that Israel has "joined the party." Do you mean the same party to which Australia belongs and through which they bombed civilians in Syria (unlike Israel, a country which presents zero physical threat to Australia, the USA, Canada, etc.), or do you mean a different party?

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8 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It's odd because you seemed to have deliberately avoided the elephant in the room of the planned deportations,  which is obviously not okay, and focused on their decision to defend themselves.

You don't post anything here without comment, you suggested that Israel has "joined the party." Do you mean the same party to which Australia belongs and through which they bombed civilians in Syria (unlike Israel, a country which presents zero physical threat to Australia, the USA, Canada, etc.), or do you mean a different party?

Piss off waffles..If you want to mourn Israels refugee policy start your own thread or go cry to Israel. You're American.and an expert on humanitarian issues of course.

They'll prolly give you a personal audience with the Areya Deadyet, just don't mention Palestinian refugees. 

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11 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Piss off waffles..If you want to mourn Israels refugee policy start your own thread or go cry to Israel. You're American.and an expert on humanitarian issues of course.

They'll prolly give you a personal audience with the Areya Deadyet, just don't mention Palestinian refugees. 

Palestinians don't live in Israel. Sudanese and Eritreans live in Israel, and they are to be deported in an inhumane way, much like the way the USA and Australia are inhumane to many of those who seek refuge.

And ultimately, Australia's and the USA's contribution to "the party" does roughly fuck-all to defend our respective homelands. Things tend to change when the bombs actually fall on your stylish townhome, huh?

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On 2/10/2018 at 7:14 AM, mikewof said:

Did you click that link? It's a humanitarian aid site. What's the problem with it?

 

Anyway, this thread is odd. What would Australia do if Indonesia launched an attack drone that was nearly about to hit a city in the Northern Territories? And what would they do if one of your own fighter jets was then shot down as it sought to disconnect the source of those drones? 

People have a right to defend themselves Meli.

And yet, you started this thread while simultaneously ignoring Israel's planned expulsion of Sudanese and Etrian immigrants. Lefty Israelis are protesting that bullshit widely, even to the point that Israeli commercial pilots have declared that they won't pilot planes to leave the country if they have forced expulsions in them.

Now, why the disconnect?

Oh yeah, maybe because Australia, like the USA and now Israel, has allowed immigrant-hating assholes to gain power in their governments?

Where did you hear that this "Iranian drone" was attacking...or even armed? Most UAVs aren't. If that had been the case it would be odd that the Izzies kept it to themselves...as the mere presence of an observation platform being justification for a military attack on a neighbor's air fields is questionable at best. 

 I would like to see the map of exactly were this drone was and some information on how they know it to be "Iranian", btw. The Russian AF has drones and they are much closer than the Iranian AF. This  smells of a Gleiwitz Incident to me. 

  

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19 hours ago, mikewof said:

It's odd because you seemed to have deliberately avoided the elephant in the room of the planned deportations,  which is obviously not okay, and focused on their decision to defend themselves.

You don't post anything here without comment, you suggested that Israel has "joined the party." Do you mean the same party to which Australia belongs and through which they bombed civilians in Syria (unlike Israel, a country which presents zero physical threat to Australia, the USA, Canada, etc.), or do you mean a different party?

We only do that because we're a client state under the thumb of the USA. If you guys would stop threatening us and offering us bribes we'd stay home.

Yes, that means we're unprincipled & gutless but what does that make you?

This topic is boring, nobody really cares anyway.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

Where did you hear that this "Iranian drone" was attacking...or even armed? Most UAVs aren't. If that had been the case it would be odd that the Izzies kept it to themselves...as the mere presence of an observation platform being justification for a military attack on a neighbor's air fields is questionable at best. 

 I would like to see the map of exactly were this drone was and some information on how they know it to be "Iranian", btw. The Russian AF has drones and they are much closer than the Iranian AF. This  smells of a Gleiwitz Incident to me. 

  

Thanks Mark, my thoughts exactly.

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22 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

We only do that because we're a client state under the thumb of the USA. If you guys would stop threatening us and offering us bribes we'd stay home.

Yes, that means we're unprincipled & gutless but what does that make you?

This topic is boring, nobody really cares anyway.

FKT

I get the feeling that even the USA is a client state these days.

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

Where did you hear that this "Iranian drone" was attacking...or even armed? Most UAVs aren't. If that had been the case it would be odd that the Izzies kept it to themselves...as the mere presence of an observation platform being justification for a military attack on a neighbor's air fields is questionable at best. 

 I would like to see the map of exactly were this drone was and some information on how they know it to be "Iranian", btw. The Russian AF has drones and they are much closer than the Iranian AF. This  smells of a Gleiwitz Incident to me. 

  

They claimed they were endangered. Unlike the USA and Australia and Iceland, they have been militarily bombed by their neighbors by aircraft, mortars and missiles countless times in the last few decades. If they had the capability to shoot down a modem fighter jet, why do you doubt their ability to arm and deploy a drone? Do you imagine them to be a pack of unadvanced savages? 

There may be a conspiracy, I've no idea.But then if you're willing to let conspiracies trump news reports, then I think you've an obligation to do that with all news reports, not just the ones from the hipster-hated-du-jour country.

Luxemborg grain reports, Taiwanese crime statistics, tourism agendas from Burkino Faso and drought reports from South Africa, they should all be examined that way, because history has taught us that nothing is below the level of subterfuge in national agendas.

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31 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Thanks Mark, my thoughts exactly.

I'm willing to wager, that at no point in your lifetime, did you worry that a fucking bomb was going to fall on your head as you exited your stylish townhouse to go to the farmer's market.

When I was in Israel, the common terrorism of the day was some sick, perverted fucks made children's squirt rings out of some kind of explosive, and when the kids found these scattered around, then picked one up and squeezed the ball, it blew off a hand.

While it's adorable that you've painted an entire country with a conspiratorial brush, the reality is that you've probably never had to alter your worldview because your worldview has never been challenged in any significant way.

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Mike, fuck off.  Eat some bacon and quit making the mistake of thinking you're the smartest person in the room.

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36 minutes ago, mikewof said:

They claimed they were endangered. Unlike the USA and Australia and Iceland, they have been militarily bombed by their neighbors by aircraft, mortars and missiles countless times in the last few decades. If they had the capability to shoot down a modem fighter jet, why do you doubt their ability to arm and deploy a drone? Do you imagine them to be a pack of unadvanced savages? 

There may be a conspiracy, I've no idea.But then if you're willing to let conspiracies trump news reports, then I think you've an obligation to do that with all news reports, not just the ones from the hipster-hated-du-jour country.

Luxemborg grain reports, Taiwanese crime statistics, tourism agendas from Burkino Faso and drought reports from South Africa, they should all be examined that way, because history has taught us that nothing is below the level of subterfuge in national agendas.

 You have no idea yet you seem to believe the drone must have been armed? 

 Israel has been bombing Syria for a couple years. Cite the case of Syria bombing Israel at any time in the last decade please, or assert the existence of anyone attacking them somewhere in the past justifies Israel in the bombing of other countries at the mere chance they might do something, I guess.  

 It may be the Syrians or the Russians deliberately let one of their UAVs wander a bit into Izzie airspace to temp them over so they could test their new Russian AA systems. If so, it worked. They damaged three F15s and downed an F16. That could be a game-changer on the Izzie ability to bomb its neighbors with impunity. If I had to bet the loss of that ability will be unacceptable to many Israelis and they will launch much wider scale attacks on Syria in response. Even having aircraft over other countries being shot down while in the process of attacking those countries will be perceived as antisemitism..albeit only the small minority of Israelis who support such as Bibi, but it is they who control Israel at the moment. We will see. 

    

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Syria and the surrounding situation is a HUGE mess. It could radily escalate for a myriad of reasons. 

Many stabilizing influences have historically come from the Diplomacy led by the USA. 

Unfortunately the USA currently does not have a competent leader or team of diplomats in place.

Perhaps it won’t get totally out of hand while the kakistocracy rules the West. 

In 500 years it won’t matter.... nor will it matter in a billion years 

but

The  planet will still be here orbiting the sun and you, dear reader, won’t be alive 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mark K said:

 You have no idea yet you seem to believe the drone must have been armed? 

 Israel has been bombing Syria for a couple years. Cite the case of Syria bombing Israel at any time in the last decade please, or assert the existence of anyone attacking them somewhere in the past justifies Israel in the bombing of other countries at the mere chance they might do something, I guess.  

 It may be the Syrians or the Russians deliberately let one of their UAVs wander a bit into Izzie airspace to temp them over so they could test their new Russian AA systems. If so, it worked. They damaged three F15s and downed an F16. That could be a game-changer on the Izzie ability to bomb its neighbors with impunity. If I had to bet the loss of that ability will be unacceptable to many Israelis and they will launch much wider scale attacks on Syria in response. Even having aircraft over other countries being shot down while in the process of attacking those countries will be perceived as antisemitism..albeit only the small minority of Israelis who support such as Bibi, but it is they who control Israel at the moment. We will see. 

I gotta say Mark, you take the "go big or go home" approach.

Your conspiracy is far more sophisticated and nuanced than the actual news report.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

I gotta say Mark, you take the "go big or go home" approach.

Your conspiracy is far more sophisticated and nuanced than the actual news report.

What are you labeling a conspiracy? 

 

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Another bullshit proxie war, this time in Syria between Russia/China/Iran on one side and US/Israel/Saudi Arabia on the other (dead cvilian men, women and children in the middle). Thanks Trump for continuing where Ohbombya, Hiltlery and the little bush left off! Making America great again.

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

What are you labeling a conspiracy?

First off, I originally read that the drone was armed, but it's hard to track these things on my cell phone. I read that they have the downed drone, if it was armed, it would have been noted, so I'll accept that it wasn't. Regardless, that's still a threat, the USA or most any other country would respond similarly. Even an unarmed drone can present a deliberate hazard to a jetliner. Airspace is protected in most countries. As for the drones, they claim to have shot down others.

Your conspiracy is that it wasn't an Iranian drone, but rather a Syrian or Russian drone, and that it was done deliberately as a false flag operation, similar to the Nazi's escalating WWII, and that the drone was in fact designed to lure Israeli aircraft over the border so they could use Russian anti-aircraft weapons to shoot them down.

Your conspiracy is more complicated than the published story, but that's the beauty of conspiracies I guess, they're more fun.

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Anything in the press about this is a lie.  There is no way any quality information would be released to the public.  The only thing that is there is some wreckage on the ground ... maybe.

4 hours ago, mikewof said:

Israel has been bombing Syria for a couple years. Cite the case of Syria bombing Israel at any time in the last decade please,

I think Mark has a great case above.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

First off, I originally read that the drone was armed, but it's hard to track these things on my cell phone. I read that they have the downed drone, if it was armed, it would have been noted, so I'll accept that it wasn't. Regardless, that's still a threat, the USA or most any other country would respond similarly. Even an unarmed drone can present a deliberate hazard to a jetliner. Airspace is protected in most countries. As for the drones, they claim to have shot down others.

Your conspiracy is that it wasn't an Iranian drone, but rather a Syrian or Russian drone, and that it was done deliberately as a false flag operation, similar to the Nazi's escalating WWII, and that the drone was in fact designed to lure Israeli aircraft over the border so they could use Russian anti-aircraft weapons to shoot them down.

Your conspiracy is more complicated than the published story, but that's the beauty of conspiracies I guess, they're more fun.

So if an unarmed UAV strayed a millimeter into Israeli airspace they have the justification to bomb a Syrian airport and kill Syrians.

 Got it. 

  

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36 minutes ago, random said:

Anything in the press about this is a lie.  There is no way any quality information would be released to the public.  The only thing that is there is some wreckage on the ground ... maybe.

I think Mark has a great case above.

Going down that rabbit hole -- where every news report from every "disliked" country is disinformation -- can be really wearing though. If you have the stomach for it, be my guest.

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29 minutes ago, Mark K said:

So if an unarmed UAV strayed a millimeter into Israeli airspace they have the justification to bomb a Syrian airport and kill Syrians.

 Got it.

I didn't write that.

I think that if a country doesn't want to get into a battle, they should be careful with their guns. Flying aircraft over someone's border where borders have a hint of stress, might not end well for everyone ... Canada, USA, Russia, China, Israel, we don't like borders getting breached. It apparently wasn't a little remote control helicopter from the local Walmart that flew over the border, but rather a somewhat advanced American knock-off. Link. It could have been armed as easily as not armed.

People have a right to defend themselves. Ideally, they wouldn't need to go after bases in Syria over this nonsense, and kill people, and get planes shot down. War is war though, it sucks. How many times did you wish that the Afghanis, or Yemenis or Somalians had the means to fight back against U.S. drones? Ditto for the people targeted by Israeli drones, it's a violently yucky kind of technology, I hate them, I would like to see a treaty against them.

You wrote that you thought it was a Nazi-style false flag, presumably orchestrated by the Israelis, to have an excuse to bomb Syria. That's a very different thing than a measured approach to border security.

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6 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Going down that rabbit hole -- where every news report from every "disliked" country is disinformation -- can be really wearing though. If you have the stomach for it, be my guest.

You have a President that openly lies multiple times a day and you doubt that reports on Israeli operations are disinformation?  The country that bombs Syrian children but get's outraged about a drone?

I do not differentiate between liked and dislike countries.  This is the information age, information it power and is extremely valuable.  It is not given away only to be consumed by your enemies.  Every opportunity to mislead and confuse is taken.  Think about it just a bit more.

That's why Presidents do not release certain memo's, why networks have instructions on what can and cannot be broadcast, why there are still pages of the 9/11 Report not released and why someone stood in front of the UN and showed them powerpoint presentations of Saddam's WoMDs. 

And after all that, you watch the news and accept what they are saying.

 

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1 minute ago, random said:

You have a President that openly lies multiple times a day and you doubt that reports on Israeli operations are disinformation?  The country that bombs Syrian children but get's outraged about a drone?

I do not differentiate between liked and dislike countries.  This is the information age, information it power and is extremely valuable.  It is not given away only to be consumed by your enemies.  Every opportunity to mislead and confuse is taken.  Think about it just a bit more.

That's why Presidents do not release certain memo's, why networks have instructions on what can and cannot be broadcast, why there are still pages of the 9/11 Report not released and why someone stood in front of the UN and showed them powerpoint presentations of Saddam's WoMDs. 

And after all that, you watch the news and accept what they are saying.

 

I've no doubt that politicians lie, that's nothing new. But your conspiracy assumes that all journalists are basically a gaggle of blithering idiots, incapable of digesting information to produce knowledge. I read the Al Jezeera report and the mainstream U.S. and British reports on this.

Again, if you like seeing conspiracies around every corner, have a ball.

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14 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I've no doubt that politicians lie, that's nothing new. But your conspiracy assumes that all journalists are basically a gaggle of blithering idiots, incapable of digesting information to produce knowledge. I read the Al Jezeera report and the mainstream U.S. and British reports on this.

Again, if you like seeing conspiracies around every corner, have a ball.

Do you believe that any reports on US or Israeli military operations are made without going through the censors?

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8 hours ago, random said:

Do you believe that any reports on US or Israeli military operations are made without going through the censors?

They definitely go through censors, information is often withheld, no question.

But you're suggesting an inability of experienced reporters to see complete fabricated realities.

It's hard enough for Hollywood screenwriters to construct realities with no ability of their audiences to fact-check. What you're suggesting sounds orders-of-magnitudes more difficult. So many hipsters and Australians already hate Israel, why would they bother trying to show themselves in a better light?

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

They definitely go through censors, information is often withheld, no question.

But you're suggesting an inability of experienced reporters to see complete fabricated realities.

So, all reports on military activity goes through censors.  That means that the experienced reporters get what they are given.  Any of them who attempt to get their own material and story find that the material has to go through censors before the networks will broadcast it.

But there are sources that attempt to bypass that system, one is called Wikileaks.  Other Americans have tried really hard to get information out to the public, let me think now ... Bradly Manning?  And then there is that other guy currently hiding  in Russia?  Starting to get the idea?  Remember the video of the chopper chopping up unarmed journalists in the streets of Baghdad?  That one would not have made it through the filters of the system, perpetuating the artificial reality that the US is protecting the Iraqi civilians, when in fact they were being routinely slaughtered in the streets by the thousands.

Given the above, what do you think an experienced reporter does when they see a completely fabricated reality about US military activities?  It's still going on Mikey, only worse.

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4 hours ago, random said:

So, all reports on military activity goes through censors.  That means that the experienced reporters get what they are given.  Any of them who attempt to get their own material and story find that the material has to go through censors before the networks will broadcast it.

But there are sources that attempt to bypass that system, one is called Wikileaks.  Other Americans have tried really hard to get information out to the public, let me think now ... Bradly Manning?  And then there is that other guy currently hiding  in Russia?  Starting to get the idea?  Remember the video of the chopper chopping up unarmed journalists in the streets of Baghdad?  That one would not have made it through the filters of the system, perpetuating the artificial reality that the US is protecting the Iraqi civilians, when in fact they were being routinely slaughtered in the streets by the thousands.

Given the above, what do you think an experienced reporter does when they see a completely fabricated reality about US military activities?  It's still going on Mikey, only worse.

There is a difference between censors hiding a story, and then a conspiracy to concoct a giant cover story.

I'm sure there were details of this story that were not released, there usually are. But that's not the same thing as suggesting that the Israelis deliberately hijacked an Iranian drone and deliberately guided it over their own border so that they could have a Nazi radio station excuse to bomb the shit out of some innocents in Syria, and then on their way back home deliberately cut off their pinkie toe by crashing their own F-16s. Again, the American hipsters and Australian hipsters already hate Israel, why should they bother with trying to show themselves in a better light at this point?

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11 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Australians generally dont hate Israel, It's just our bullshit meters are more finely tuned than yours. 

And you have tuned this "bullshit meter" how exactly? By shelving books in a library for most of your life and reading the Internet?

No offense Sally, but even Australian journalists with whom I've worked when I lived there would scoff at your perceived "bullshit meter."

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13 minutes ago, mikewof said:

There is a difference between censors hiding a story, and then a conspiracy to concoct a giant cover story.

I'm sure there were details of this story that were not released, there usually are. But that's not the same thing as suggesting that the Israelis deliberately hijacked an Iranian drone and deliberately guided it over their own border so that they could have Nazi radio station excuse to bomb the shit out of some innocents in Syria, and then on their way back home deliberately cut off their pinkie toe by crashing their own F-16. Again, the hipsters and Australians already hate Israel, why should they bother with trying to show themselves in a better light at this point?

Nice deflection attempt.

Where did I claim it was a conspiracy?

I am offering verifiable examples of what happens to people if they report, or attempt to report what has happened in the military conflict anywhere.  That was exactly what Wikileaks was created to circumvent.  But it seems that high profile cases of people being thrown in prison are not enough for ordinary people to question "now hang on a minute, if these people are being locked up for telling the truth, about what happened, what is the veracity of what we are being told?"

No, not enough brain cells to join those dots it seems.  Instead they see whistle-blowers as criminals, it must be so because the News Network just told them they were.  Can you see how fucked up that is?

 

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2 hours ago, random said:

Nice deflection attempt.

Where did I claim it was a conspiracy?

I am offering verifiable examples of what happens to people if they report, or attempt to report what has happened in the military conflict anywhere.  That was exactly what Wikileaks was created to circumvent.  But it seems that high profile cases of people being thrown in prison are not enough for ordinary people to question "now hang on a minute, if these people are being locked up for telling the truth, about what happened, what is the veracity of what we are being told?"

No, not enough brain cells to join those dots it seems.  Instead they see whistle-blowers as criminals, it must be so because the News Network just told them they were.  Can you see how fucked up that is?

 

It's not deflection, that was Mark's conspiracy, I think. You jumped into the thread, if you don't assume his mantle then please feel free to suggest what you think is the real story.

You're preaching to the choir as to the restriction of information, I used to be in that businesses. But specifically, wrt to the Israeli jet, what do you think is the "real" story?

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23 hours ago, mikewof said:

I didn't write that.

I think that if a country doesn't want to get into a battle, they should be careful with their guns. Flying aircraft over someone's border where borders have a hint of stress, might not end well for everyone ... Canada, USA, Russia, China, Israel, we don't like borders getting breached. It apparently wasn't a little remote control helicopter from the local Walmart that flew over the border, but rather a somewhat advanced American knock-off. Link. It could have been armed as easily as not armed.

People have a right to defend themselves. Ideally, they wouldn't need to go after bases in Syria over this nonsense, and kill people, and get planes shot down. War is war though, it sucks. How many times did you wish that the Afghanis, or Yemenis or Somalians had the means to fight back against U.S. drones? Ditto for the people targeted by Israeli drones, it's a violently yucky kind of technology, I hate them, I would like to see a treaty against them.

You wrote that you thought it was a Nazi-style false flag, presumably orchestrated by the Israelis, to have an excuse to bomb Syria. That's a very different thing than a measured approach to border security.

The Izzies hit 12 different sites in "response". Hell of a response for a drone that was very small and to the best of anyone's knowledge unarmed. 

 All through the war the border between Syria and Israel has been a haven for Jihadi rebels, somehow that has not prompted the Israelis to act to clear them out, they only attack Syrian government forces. What poses the greater threat to Israel: Radical Islamists or the multi-confessional GOS? They apparently want wild men for neighbors. I suppose that will make it easier to demand more money from the US, but it is unlikely they believe they couldn't get more without that. The presence of an observation drone near those rebels is completely explainable, but unfortunately not as an attempt to attack Israel. 

 You seem to believe Bibi speaks for all Jews as Bibi claims he does so, to you, Israel isn't a nation it's a religion. Here's some more Blind Faith. 

 

 

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This is my favorite Bar in the world. 

Mike.

cliff-clavin.jpeg

Meli

Image result for carla cheers

And Randumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Image result for kramer seinfeld

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7 minutes ago, mikewof said:

But specifically, wrt to the Israeli jet, what do you think is the "real" story?

I have no fucking idea.  But this is fact. 

  1. The real story is classified. 
  2. The story released by the censors is not the real story.

Simple.  But still we have people here, most people in the street, have no idea that they are being manipulated and lied to every time that read the news about any thing to do with conflict and just about every thing else.

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15 minutes ago, random said:

I have no fucking idea.  But this is fact. 

  1. The real story is classified. 
  2. The story released by the censors is not the real story.

Simple.  But still we have people here, most people in the street, have no idea that they are being manipulated and lied to every time that read the news about any thing to do with conflict and just about every thing else.

You have posted exactly the same shit in threads about-

- Sea level rise

- MH370

- Genetic food modification

- US military activities

- Alternative energy

- the faking of 911

and anything ever said by any American.

 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

This is my favorite Bar in the world. 

Mike.

cliff-clavin.jpeg

Meli

Image result for carla cheers

And Randumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Image result for kramer seinfeld

not far off, I had 7 kids "home for dinner" last night :D

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2 hours ago, Mark K said:

The Izzies hit 12 different sites in "response". Hell of a response for a drone that was very small and to the best of anyone's knowledge unarmed. 

The Izzies are still paying everyone else back for what Hitler did.  They never miss and opportunity to do so.

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3 hours ago, random said:

I have no fucking idea.  But this is fact. 

  1. The real story is classified. 
  2. The story released by the censors is not the real story.

Simple.  But still we have people here, most people in the street, have no idea that they are being manipulated and lied to every time that read the news about any thing to do with conflict and just about every thing else.

 

So you have no specific avenue to doubt whatever it is that you read, just that everything you read is a lie?

Why did you even comment in this thread, except to post what every Jr. High School pothead has ever said in the history of ever?

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fok , how did i lose my way into here :(

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17 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

So you have no specific avenue to doubt whatever it is that you read, just that everything you read is a lie?

Why did you even comment in this thread, except to post what every Jr. High School pothead has ever said in the history of ever?

No, everything I read about military conflict has been through the US censors.  Their job is not to pass on information that may be useful to the enemy, or to deliberately misinform the enemy.  That means that the public are not given accurate information or are deliberately given the wrong information.  Sometimes they are not given any, like the US choppers chopping up journalists that Manning released.  Gives a new meaning for 'Choppers' hey.

This is one of the reasons that the western press is excluded from areas where the US is bombing the fuck out of civilian populations e.g. northern Pakistan.  They don't want what is going on there reported.

Read what I posted, stuff about Israeli F16s bombing unarmed civilians, Gazza I was thinking of.  But I do not have to explain anything I post to you, unless it is an opportunity to repost my points, as I have here.

Everything reported about military activity has been through the censors and they are not there to educate us.  Stop sucking that shit up Mikey.

 

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3 hours ago, Mark K said:

The Izzies hit 12 different sites in "response". Hell of a response for a drone that was very small and to the best of anyone's knowledge unarmed. 

 All through the war the border between Syria and Israel has been a haven for Jihadi rebels, somehow that has not prompted the Israelis to act to clear them out, they only attack Syrian government forces. What poses the greater threat to Israel: Radical Islamists or the multi-confessional GOS? They apparently want wild men for neighbors. I suppose that will make it easier to demand more money from the US, but it is unlikely they believe they couldn't get more without that. The presence of an observation drone near those rebels is completely explainable, but unfortunately not as an attempt to attack Israel. 

 You seem to believe Bibi speaks for all Jews as Bibi claims he does so, to you, Israel isn't a nation it's a religion. Here's some more Blind Faith.

You believe in a giant Nazi-level conspiracy because Israel reacted far too harshly in your opinion? That's your reason to believe that they actually orchestrated the entire thing, and hijacked an Iranian drone, and deliberately flew it over their own border?

Israel overmeasures their response for the same reason the USA overmeasures our response; because they have military hardware to spare, they make good money selling military hardware, and use of their hardware (in their case, electronic warfare sensing and control gear) and they want to continue to establish themselves the regional superpower. Duh. They have a point of national pride of being the baddest dude on the block, same as the USA, and they have a well-publicized history of getting attacked once without provocation.

We also overmeasure our retaliation in the USA, so is the 9/11 actually a false flag version of the Nazi-radio station attack? (Random will be thrilled to see he has someone on his side in that one.) Heck, as long as we're ignoring overriding geopolitical shifts like the reorganization of the Ottoman Empire, wasn't WWI a bit of an overreaction over the assassination of one low-level diplomat? Was Flanders actually a British-run false flag to get Australia blown "ass over tits" at Gallipoli?

Your conspiracy sucks in part because the amount of money that Israel gets from the USA just covers their agreement not sell that electronic warfare to China and Russia. So why would they then deliberately crash one of their own planes (for which they're going to run out of spare parts) to "demand more money from the US" as you wrote, when losing a plane severely damages their ability to sell those highly profitable electronic countermeasures, which is much bigger than the bribe from the USA anyway? Your conspiracy now needs an additional level of complexity to explain that ... a little more complexity and we'll soon be in "nanothermite" territory!

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1 hour ago, random said:

This is one of the reasons that the western press is excluded from areas where the US is bombing the fuck out of civilian populations e.g. northern Pakistan.  They don't want what is going on there reported.

Any one from the west will be picked up, beheaded, shot or blown up. For them going to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa or FATA is like a black journalist travelling south to interview the KKK during the civil war. A really dumb idea

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6 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

Any one from the west will be picked up, beheaded, shot or blown up. For them going to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa or FATA is like a black journalist travelling south to interview the KKK during the civil war. A really dumb idea

Did you read that in the paper or was it on the news?

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1 hour ago, random said:

Did you read that in the paper or was it on the news?

A place where on winning the political party passes laws codifying stoning and amputation for drinking, blasphemy etc, prevents male doctors examining females, has restrictions on what you can wear, bans public music and photos/posters of women and is a hotbed of terrorism is not a place most would willingly go to.

The locals aren't very friendly to local journalists and hate the west for indiscriminate bombing. With a strong Taliban presence and no supporting forces to guard them a westerner would cause a lot of deaths. He would be captured and then killed, the Pakistan army would go in kill a few locals for "face" and try to retreat to strongholds before they take casualties. A lot of pain on all sides for your infotainment.

http://www.ifj.org/nc/news-single-view/backpid/50/article/pakistan-state-of-play-on-impunity/

http://www.firstpost.com/world/suicide-attack-on-pakistan-armys-sports-unit-in-peshawar-kills-11-soldiers-injures-13-others-4342899.html

 

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7 hours ago, VhmSays said:

With a strong Taliban presence and no supporting forces to guard them a westerner would cause a lot of deaths.

The US media ban is not a ban on westerners, it is a media ban regardless of nationality or how you dress.  Got anything else for us to prop up and argue about instead of the real issue?

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9 minutes ago, random said:

The US media ban is not a ban on westerners, it is a media ban regardless of nationality or how you dress.  Got anything else for us to prop up and argue about instead of the real issue?

There is no media ban. Heres some current events from that area

https://www.suchtv.pk/pakistan/kp-fata.html

 

I admit journalists aren't thick on the ground there, maybe cause a couple get killed every month?

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14 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

There is no media ban. Heres some current events from that area

https://www.suchtv.pk/pakistan/kp-fata.html

 

I admit journalists aren't thick on the ground there, maybe cause a couple get killed every month?

Mashaal Radio shutdown: Is Pakistan suppressing foreign media?

Pakistan's Interior Ministry suspended the operations of Radio Mashaal on January 19, following accusations by the nation's spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) that its programs were "against the interests of Pakistan."

Many journalists, politicians and activists view the move as a crackdown on free speech and the Western media in Pakistan.

Launched in 2010, Radio Mashaal is the local name of the US Congress-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's (RFE/RL) Pashto-language service in Pakistan. It was introduced as a public service to counter the extremist narrative of the Taliban in Pakistan's mountainous regions that border Afghanistan. Foreign media rarely gain access to these areas.

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24 minutes ago, random said:

Mashaal Radio shutdown: Is Pakistan suppressing foreign media?

Pakistan's Interior Ministry suspended the operations of Radio Mashaal on January 19, following accusations by the nation's spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) that its programs were "against the interests of Pakistan."

Many journalists, politicians and activists view the move as a crackdown on free speech and the Western media in Pakistan.

Launched in 2010, Radio Mashaal is the local name of the US Congress-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's (RFE/RL) Pashto-language service in Pakistan. It was introduced as a public service to counter the extremist narrative of the Taliban in Pakistan's mountainous regions that border Afghanistan. Foreign media rarely gain access to these areas.

You do understand the area is under the control of extremists? There is no real freedom there, ffs they passed laws that banned music and allowed stoning, free speech gets you stoned...not in a good way. Proselytising western values isn't going to win friends and the ISI is on the side of the terrorists, they run their camps and arm them. 

EDIT: They are all for exporting their culture just very against importing any.  Radio Mashaal may have mentioned womens rights/contraception/vaccination/praised the USA all grounds for bombing.

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3 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

You do understand the area is under the control of extremists? There is no real freedom there, ffs they passed laws that banned music and allowed stoning, free speech gets you stoned...not in a good way. Proselytising western values isn't going to win friends and the ISI is on the side of the terrorists, they run their camps and arm them. 

You keep on injecting subjects not relevant.  Did I say anything about "Proselytising western values"?  Did I?

All I did was claim that there was a media ban in Northern Pakistan, then posted references to that.  Many of the journalists of the Mashaal Radio would have been locals.

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1 minute ago, random said:

You keep on injecting subjects not relevant.  Did I say anything about "Proselytising western values"?  Did I?

All I did was claim that there was a media ban in Northern Pakistan, then posted references to that.  Many of the journalists of the Mashaal Radio would have been locals.

News gets out from that area quite well especially if its harmful to the US (civilian deaths) or helpful to Pakistani interests. A lot of it is propaganda and comes from groups fighting each other. There is no media ban as such its just that journalists are very likely to die if they step on any toes in that area.

https://thewire.in/104470/pakistani-reporters-in-the-crosshairs/

What do you think Radio Mashaal was doing? 

 "Radio Mashaal is the local name of the US Congress-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's (RFE/RL) Pashto-language service in Pakistan. It was introduced as a public service to counter the extremist narrative of the Taliban in Pakistan's mountainous regions that border Afghanistan."

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http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-and-iran-knock-heads-in-most-serious-conflict-to-date/news-story/2190605b84c22020fb3628e9f624b782

 

Hmm

Simple recap

On Saturday morning, Israeli intelligence claimed to have spotted an Iranian drone approaching Israel’s airspace from Syria.

The Israeli military deployed a combat helicopter to intercept the drone, and its social media head tweeted footage of the incident.

next

 

Later, Israel sent fighter jets into a Syrian military base near the city of Palmyra, where the drone was believed to be launched from.

Syria — one of Iran’s closest allies — responded by firing a number of anti-aircraft missiles, and one of Israel’s planes was struck down. It crashed into an empty field, seriously injuring the pilot.

so then

This prompted Israel to conduct a much larger strike in Syria, attacking 12 targets, four of which were Iranian.

They told Israeli newspaper Haaretz that it was the largest and most successful attack on Syria’s missile system since the 1982 Lebanon War.

 

Could we just ponder a moment.

Israel hits Syria ....twice.

in retaliation for what they believe was an Iranian drone (launched from the base of an ally)

they send a bunch of fighter jets into Syria (note..these are actually factually armed) they hit one target  (they are now actually in Syria)..and..surprise..surprise..syria, quite justifiably shoots one down.

Boo hoo..

so the Israelies attack twelve (12) sites in Syria ..that will show them not to mess with us while we're attacking YOU!!

 

Why does this remind me of the start of the 67 war..?

So, what's the game plan here?

Provoke Iran/Syria..then hide behind the Skirts of the USA now the USA has a Fearless leader willing to use Nukes and grab some more land in the aftermath?

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23 hours ago, mikewof said:

So you have no specific avenue to doubt whatever it is that you read, just that everything you read is a lie?

This supports my comments on the matter, written nearly 100 years ago.

“FREEDOM OF THE PRESS"

During war all institutions and organs of the State and of public opinion become, directly or indirectly, weapons of warfare. This is particularly true of the Press. No government carrying on a serious war will allow publications to exist on its territory which, openly or indirectly, support the enemy. ”

<snip>

"To propose this in the name of the "freedom" of the Press is just the same as, in the name of open dealing, to demand the publication of military secrets.”

Excerpt From: Leon Trotsky. “Dictatorship vs. Democracy (Terrorism and Communism): a reply to Karl Kantsky.” iBooks.

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14 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-and-iran-knock-heads-in-most-serious-conflict-to-date/news-story/2190605b84c22020fb3628e9f624b782

 

Hmm

Simple recap

On Saturday morning, Israeli intelligence claimed to have spotted an Iranian drone approaching Israel’s airspace from Syria.

The Israeli military deployed a combat helicopter to intercept the drone, and its social media head tweeted footage of the incident.

next

 

Later, Israel sent fighter jets into a Syrian military base near the city of Palmyra, where the drone was believed to be launched from.

Syria — one of Iran’s closest allies — responded by firing a number of anti-aircraft missiles, and one of Israel’s planes was struck down. It crashed into an empty field, seriously injuring the pilot.

so then

This prompted Israel to conduct a much larger strike in Syria, attacking 12 targets, four of which were Iranian.

They told Israeli newspaper Haaretz that it was the largest and most successful attack on Syria’s missile system since the 1982 Lebanon War.

 

Could we just ponder a moment.

Israel hits Syria ....twice.

in retaliation for what they believe was an Iranian drone (launched from the base of an ally)

they send a bunch of fighter jets into Syria (note..these are actually factually armed) they hit one target  (they are now actually in Syria)..and..surprise..surprise..syria, quite justifiably shoots one down.

Boo hoo..

so the Israelies attack twelve (12) sites in Syria ..that will show them not to mess with us while we're attacking YOU!!

 

Why does this remind me of the start of the 67 war..?

So, what's the game plan here?

Provoke Iran/Syria..then hide behind the Skirts of the USA now the USA has a Fearless leader willing to use Nukes and grab some more land in the aftermath?

"Hide behind the Skirts"?

What country, able to retaliate, wouldn't defend themselves from an aircraft coming over their border, maybe headed toward a city?

And speaking of hiding behind a skirt, what's that whole mutual defense agreement that your country has with our's? You guys have the second largest coastline defended by a relatively tiny defense, and you claim that Israel is hiding? You enjoy a quality of life down there because your country has decided to avoid significant defense costs and use someone else's skirt.

Who are you to judge any country's defenses that have been bombed repeatedly within the last few decades? Does your neighborhood school have an active air raid shelter? Because if it was in Golan, it would, and the children there would be familiar with it. But yeah, Meli the village idiot says "fuck 'em" why should they be allowed to defend themselves?

Is it their somewhat unBritish tint to their skin tone?

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18 minutes ago, mikewof said:

You enjoy a quality of life down there because your country has decided to avoid significant defense costs and use someone else's skirt.

No, we enjoy it because they would fucking die in the desert.  The Japanese once.

armyindstrat_719x357px.jpg

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19 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-and-iran-knock-heads-in-most-serious-conflict-to-date/news-story/2190605b84c22020fb3628e9f624b782

 

Hmm

Simple recap

On Saturday morning, Israeli intelligence claimed to have spotted an Iranian drone approaching Israel’s airspace from Syria.

The Israeli military deployed a combat helicopter to intercept the drone, and its social media head tweeted footage of the incident.

next

 

Later, Israel sent fighter jets into a Syrian military base near the city of Palmyra, where the drone was believed to be launched from.

Syria — one of Iran’s closest allies — responded by firing a number of anti-aircraft missiles, and one of Israel’s planes was struck down. It crashed into an empty field, seriously injuring the pilot.

so then

This prompted Israel to conduct a much larger strike in Syria, attacking 12 targets, four of which were Iranian.

They told Israeli newspaper Haaretz that it was the largest and most successful attack on Syria’s missile system since the 1982 Lebanon War.

 

Could we just ponder a moment.

Israel hits Syria ....twice.

in retaliation for what they believe was an Iranian drone (launched from the base of an ally)

they send a bunch of fighter jets into Syria (note..these are actually factually armed) they hit one target  (they are now actually in Syria)..and..surprise..surprise..syria, quite justifiably shoots one down.

Boo hoo..

so the Israelies attack twelve (12) sites in Syria ..that will show them not to mess with us while we're attacking YOU!!

 

Why does this remind me of the start of the 67 war..?

So, what's the game plan here?

Provoke Iran/Syria..then hide behind the Skirts of the USA now the USA has a Fearless leader willing to use Nukes and grab some more land in the aftermath?

The game plan is for Israel to react decisively to dissuade any further incursions across their border.   I'd say that Syria has had plenty of experience w/provoking  Israeli retaliation, and knew exactly what they were doing when they 1) Let the drone fly across the boarder, and 2) Escalated by shooting down the Israeli jet.    Israel lives in constant fear of attack from ALL of its neighbors - they can't afford to ignore any incursion that has the potential to adversely impact their security .  

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4 hours ago, random said:

No, we enjoy it because they would fucking die in the desert.  The Japanese once.

armyindstrat_719x357px.jpg

Nobody wants Alice Springs - they'd probably be happy w/Townsville, Adelaide, Sydney and Wollongong, though.  The area around ACT is nice farm/ranchland too - so maybe some of that. 

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Nobody wants Alice Springs - they'd probably be happy w/Townsville, Adelaide, Sydney and Wollongong, though.  The area around ACT is nice farm/ranchland too - so maybe some of that. 

Invasions and occupations haven't gone so well the last 100 years or so, even for America.  Got it's arse kicked out of a few countries now.

350px-Saigon-hubert-van-es.jpg

I suspect that's what would happen to someone invading Australia.

 

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3 minutes ago, random said:

Invasions and occupations haven't gone so well the last 100 years or so, even for America.  Got it's arse kicked out of a few countries now.

I suspect that's what would happen to someone invading Australia.

We haven't "gotten our ass kicked" out of ANY country in the last 100 years or so - we have demonstrated the lack of political will to stay, which is a much different circumstance than you suggest. 

I suspect the invasion of Australia will be economic, not military, and that y'all will welcome it w/open arms until you collectively realize it's too late, and you've sold your futures.  Like I said - who wants Alice Springs?   

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

We haven't "gotten our ass kicked" out of ANY country in the last 100 years or so - we have demonstrated the lack of political will to stay, which is a much different circumstance than you suggest. 

No of course not.  History can always be rewritten, I mean America could not really be beaten could it?  America decided to leave Vietnam on it own terms, of course.  Maybe you need to read up on the Fall of Saigon.

vietnam114-sjpg_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50.jp

"If we get chased out of Iraq with our tail between our legs, that will be the fifth consecutive Third-world country with no hint of a Navy or an Air Force to have whipped us in the past 40 years."

  • Hunter S Thompson (18 November 2003)

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Hunter S Thompson is your authoritative source for military analysis?    Hoo boy - I bet you use Penthouse Forums as your primary medical reference, too...  

I have read more texts and performed more analysis of historic military movements than I suspect you even know exists - but, hey, if you're having fun thinking you're smarter than everyone else - as Grumpy liked to say - Fill your boots. 

 

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28 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I have read more texts and performed more analysis of historic military movements than I suspect you even know exist

So you are saying that the US did not get kicked out of Vietnam?

giphy.gif

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think I've already given you the answer to that - and don't think your bait is fresh enough to keep sniffin' at. 

So you are retreating, like what happened in Vietnam?

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1 minute ago, random said:

So you are retreating, like what happened in Vietnam?

Sure - anything you say.  Did you see me erase/edit any posts?  Nope - not a bit. Your question's already been answered, and you refuse to admit the distinction between a lack of political will and a military defeat. SO?  Refusing to play your silly games is no more a retreat than ignoring the 5 yr old w/a plastic machine gun jumps around the corner and shouts "Bang!  Your Dead!" 

 

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

you refuse to admit the distinction between a lack of political will and a military defeat.

And you refuse to admit that the US were thoroughly routed from Vietnam.  Fucking incredible level of self deception you are showing.

How the fuck can anyone bother reading what you post when you are openly denying recorded history?

The US got their fuckin arses kicked out and you are unable to accept documented reality.

Exhibits_Upcoming_Vietnam_FallofSaigon_D

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Piss off Random - we left because the US no longer had the political will to fight a protracted battle in which our military was prevented by politicians from executing in a manner to achieve a decisive military victory.   That's quite different than what you like to wrongly suggest. 

 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Piss off Random - we left because the US no longer had the political will to fight a protracted battle in which our military was prevented by politicians from executing in a manner to achieve a decisive military victory.   That's quite different than what you like to wrongly suggest. 

 

And pretty different from the one reported in the papers to I see.  Talk about mass delusion.

ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA

Vietnam War

"Meanwhile, the United States, its military demoralized and its civilian electorate deeply divided, began a process of coming to terms with defeat in what had been its longest and most controversial war."

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