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Plenipotentiary Tom

Number of School Shootings Decreased

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5 hours ago, jocal505 said:
6 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

The problem is when other stats are simply made up in order to promote hysteria -

Cite these examples. This problem is far from imaginary.

Quote function failure.  I didn't write that.  Jeff did.

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4 hours ago, Mid said:
8 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Are school shootings an acceptable price to pay?

Obviously the answer is yes to some on here .

Not any more than the price of enjoying our 1st, 4th, 5th and other constitutional rights is that some certain level of deaths are a direct result of those freedoms.  Without those pesky constitutional rights, such as the right to privacy and due process, we would have a metric shit ton less dead from the opioid epidemic and from other illegal drug trades,  But sadly, those deaths ARE the price we pay to enjoy those freedoms.  Like it or not you (ALL of you) need to face the reality that people murdered by others will never be eradicated.  But with enough draconian measures, the numbers could be brought down to close to zero.  It just depends on how far you want to go to save a life.  We have always accepted (yet we rarely admit it in good company) that there is and always has been a balance between safety/security and liberty.  It's a constant tug of war and will always be so until the day we finally give up on this democracy experiment and go full on authoritarian Big Brother state.  

So should we Accept school shootings?  No, of course not.  But we will tolerate them because we know the alternative is far worse.  When you all are willing to give up your 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th rights to save just that one child...... then we'll talk.  But frankly if ALL of the Constitutional rights are not on the table for discussion to address our violence issue, then NONE of them are on the table IMHO.

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From 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/04/mass-shootings-more-deadly-frequent-research-215678

Events

Shooting Rate.jpg

Victims

Screen-Shot-2017-10-04-at-11.45.56-AM.jpg

"This may help to explain why shootings seem more common, even though they aren’t. Research shows that the number of victims killed and wounded are the strongest predictors of the extent to which a mass killing gets reported by the news media. Recent growth in the number of catastrophic mass public shootings—combined with the extensive, wall-to-wall news coverage that accompanies these tragedies—likely accounts for the commonly held misconception that mass shootings are now more frequent."  

More specific to schools. From 

https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/

image.thumb.png.9f79639933501788af53823e7d34cb49.png

image.thumb.png.3c6389901c0fcd19384c2388d3d32501.png

image.thumb.png.31131104de38babc70a25ca8242e4257.png

image.thumb.png.f53a7d6bde5462ddabf7561927b262f5.png

 

They go on to say armed guards or teachers are not the best answer. 

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6 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I don't disagree with this premise, given the numbers of both students in schools and shootings in schools.

That said, this appears to be an argument like the one about safety in air travel.  It is the safest method of travel.

Then again, when their is an airliner crash, it's big news and usually big carnage.

And, their are strict controls in place to minimize/eliminate as many of those crashes as possible.

Using that analogy, Tommy dogballs would love nothing more than to argue against any regulations regarding airliner safety because one person committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane.

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33 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I don't disagree with this premise, given the numbers of both students in schools and shootings in schools.

That said, this appears to be an argument like the one about safety in air travel.  It is the safest method of travel.

Then again, when their there is an airliner crash, it's big news and usually big carnage.

And, their there are strict controls in place to minimize/eliminate as many of those crashes as possible.

Using that analogy, Tommy dogballs would love nothing more than to argue against any regulations regarding airliner safety because one person committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane.

2
2

The better analogy would be responding to 9/11 by banning private pilot flight schools, private pilot licenses and private ownership of airplanes. 

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16 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:
50 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I don't disagree with this premise, given the numbers of both students in schools and shootings in schools.

That said, this appears to be an argument like the one about safety in air travel.  It is the safest method of travel.

Then again, when their there is an airliner crash, it's big news and usually big carnage.

And, their there are strict controls in place to minimize/eliminate as many of those crashes as possible.

Using that analogy, Tommy dogballs would love nothing more than to argue against any regulations regarding airliner safety because one person committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane.

2
2

The better analogy would be responding to 9/11 by banning private pilot flight schools, private pilot licenses and private ownership of airplanes. 

Fair enough.  Either works.

Funny how you took care to correct my spelling errors.  Don't you dislike it when done to you?

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12 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Quote function failure.  I didn't write that.  Jeff did.

Excuse the error. The software once worked properly.

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13 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Using that analogy, Tommy dogballs would love nothing more than to argue against any regulations regarding airliner safety because one person committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane.

A very stupid strawman, especially given all the arguments I've made that contradict it.

Using that analogy Grabbers would love nothing more than to argue against any privately owned guns because of one suicide at real estate that used to be a school.

All I've said, and will keep saying, is that my ownership of squirrel shooters and plinking in my yard doesn't cause these shooting and banning and confiscating our guns is a stupid SOLution. But it's the one that's offered over and over again.

And the only defense for it appears to be stupid strawman arguments and name calling.

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On 2/16/2019 at 5:09 PM, Bus Driver said:

Fair enough.  Either works.

Funny how you took care to correct my spelling errors.  Don't you dislike it when done to you?

Did you notice those 2's in the quote? They can't be edited out. Apparently, they re a bug in Grammarly and represent the errors in your text. I was experimenting to get rid of the first 2 and didn't want to edit your quote without identifying the edit so I used strike-through only Grammarly still considered it an error. Hence the second 2. 

I wasn't actually interested in your typo. I make a lot of typos and spelling errors. Was never good at either. 

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On 2/16/2019 at 3:25 AM, Bus Driver said:

Are school shootings an acceptable price to pay?

Of course they are.

Hundreds of dead children every year is just the price of freedom.

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On 2/16/2019 at 6:34 AM, Shootist Jeff said:
On 2/16/2019 at 6:25 AM, Bus Driver said:

By all means, let's focus on the mislabeled ones.  That way, we don't have to focus on dead kids.

You do know it is possible to turn away from the mislabeled shootings and focus on shootings in school, right?

Are school shootings an acceptable price to pay?

Of course they're not acceptable.  But why do they have to be mutually exclusive discussions?  I'd be more than happy to focus on the actual school shootings that are school shootings while at the same time pointing out that not all "school shootings" are school shootings and these others are being added simply to pad the numbers for even greater shock value.

But they were just "mislabeled." A simple mistake. No intention to pad numbers for greater shock value at all.

 

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10 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Did you notice those 2's in the quote? They can't be edited out. Apparently, they re a bug in Grammarly and represent the errors in your text. I was experimenting to get rid of the first 2 and didn't want to edit your quote without identifying the edit so I used strike-through only Grammarly still considered it an error. Hence the second 2. 

I wasn't actually interested in your typo. I make a lot of typos and spelling errors. Was never good at either. 

I did notice the 2s, and I saw other comments regarding 1s being inserted into quotes.  No idea how or why that is, as it hasn't occurred in any of my posts (that I know of).

Are trying one of your funny little tricks by inserting some code to track people or gather info?  You've done it before.  Even admitted it.

That said, I find your spelling corrections rich, since you have complained when it happens to you.

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4 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:

But they were just "mislabeled." A simple mistake. No intention to pad numbers for greater shock value at all.

 

Shootings are under-reported. Florida does not report any mass shootings to the FBI, for one example.  The Gun Violence Archive numbers are documented media accounts from something like 1200 news sources.

The reporting of gun incidents is important. On behalf of gunshot survivors, the GVA does great work to tally these incidents of multiple gunshot injury survivors. Oly a sick person would minimize such a horrible problem, one which is increasing.

 

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Now we've got cops shooting teachers with paintballs.

Has anyone else played with paintball guns? The things HURT. And you should be wearing eye protection.

Quote

Gail Zeharalis, a representative for the Indiana State Teachers Association (ISTA), testified about the incident at an Indiana Senate hearing Wednesday, RTV6 reported. "During active shooter drill, four teachers at a time were taken into a room, told to crouch down and were shot execution style with some sort of projectiles—resulting in injuries to the extent that welts appeared, and blood was drawn," the teacher's union wrote on Twitter

...

"It's a soft, round projectile," he told Star of the plastic pellets used in the airsoft guns. "The key here is 'soft.'" The practice ended, he added, after a teacher complained.

The ISTA went public with the allegations as part of an effort to amend a proposed school safety bill to clarify that teachers shouldn't be shot. It seems like a pretty reasonable demand. After all, it's hard to understand how shooting teachers with pellet guns makes anyone safer.

I'd sure complain if subjected to such nonsense.
 

Quote

 

As Reason's Jesse Walker has argued, these sorts of overly realistic simulations don't prepare students and teachers for disasters as much as they pointlessly reenact past tragedies. They're also not terribly effective, as Erika Christakis has written in The Atlantic.

The truth is, schools are actually relatively safe. School shootings are tragic, but thankfully, very rare. In fact, some research suggests schools might even be safer now than they were in the 1990s, as Robby Soave has pointed out.

 

People who interrupt a good PANIC are inconvenient.

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23 minutes ago, Happy said:

Australia's gun laws are good. We haven't had a bunch of schoolkids massacred in years, actually never.....


Are you sure you're counting correctly? Shootings that happen at or near colleges and universities count, as do suicides on real estate that was once a school.

 

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10 hours ago, Raz'r said:

41 school shootings at US schools year-to-date. 

The nutters must be proud.

No source cited, so I guess you're parroting Bloomberg'$ $peech here?

 

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Now that ASSault weapons are being legally introduced to schools shootings will invariably zoom way up.

SAD!

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8 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Now that ASSault weapons are being legally introduced to schools shootings will invariably zoom way up.

SAD!

What's with the fixation on ASS, Gator?

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1 minute ago, Importunate Tom said:
8 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Now that ASSault weapons are being legally introduced to schools shootings will invariably zoom way up.

SAD!

What's with the fixation on ASS, Gator?

It not just any ASS..... it YOUR ass that gaytor is most interested in.  That's what you get for posting pics of yourself on PA.  Gaytor is likely masturbating to the one of you on your pontoon boat while he has the Deliverance soundtrack dueling banjos playing in the background.  NTTAWWT.

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1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

It not just any ASS..... it YOUR ass that gaytor is most interested in.  That's what you get for posting pics of yourself on PA.  Gaytor is likely masturbating to the one of you on your pontoon boat while he has the Deliverance soundtrack dueling banjos playing in the background.  NTTAWWT.

In case you're right, here's a sailor boner killer pic.

seadoospray.jpg

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Tom Ray himself.jpg

Tom Ray, fashiontrainwreck.jpg

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I have a way better foldable kayak sailing pic, Joe, but can't top that fashion trainwreck for amusement. It takes a good friend to stop and take a pic when he sees you looking that funny, so credit goes to my buddy Gene.

faltsl.jpg

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On 5/4/2019 at 4:48 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

So do you think both of those links you posted are really "school shootings" in the sense of how we use the term here?

Is an accidental discharge by a cop on school grounds really a "school shooting"?

See, it is these kinds of BS "facts" that are trotted out continually that make the gun nutterz roll their eyes and harden them to actually working with you to achieve any sort of compromise.  When you have to lie to make your point, you don't actually have a point in their first place.

There's a whole thread about this kind of scare tactic, which is why I replied in it.

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13 hours ago, Mid said:

D6J8JVVXoAwHh8-.jpg

Probably depends who is counting.

On 2/17/2018 at 6:25 AM, Importunate Tom said:

Number of School Shootings Decreased

Bloomberg $ay$ there have been 17, not 18
 

Quote

 

Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings. Take, for example, what it counted as the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

Also listed on the organization’s site is an incident from Jan. 20, when at 1 a.m. a man was shot at a sorority event on the campus of Wake Forest University. A week later, as a basketball game was being played at a Michigan high school, someone fired several rounds from a gun in the parking lot. No one was injured, and it was past 8 p.m., well after classes had ended for the day, but Everytown still labeled it a school shooting.

Everytown explains on its website that it defines a school shooting as “any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds.”

Sarah Tofte, Everytown’s research director, calls the definition “crystal clear,” noting that “every time a gun is discharged on school grounds it shatters the sense of safety” for students, parents and the community.

...

After The Washington Post published this report, Everytown removed the Jan. 3 suicide outside the closed Michigan school.

 

 

And when grabbers are counting, don't count on the casualties being kids. Or the location even being a school.

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Krist I'm so happy those kids killed outside of school don't count .

 

Fok but you are a nasty piece of work .

  • Like 1

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20 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

 

56 minutes ago, Mid said:

Krist I'm so happy those kids killed outside of school don't count .

 

Fok but you are a nasty piece of work .

Lying to scare people into becoming like Aussies, unable to object when grabbers are confiscating museum collections, isn't going to work on me.

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Just now, Importunate Tom said:

 

Lying to scare people into becoming like Aussies, unable to object when grabbers are confiscating museum collections, isn't going to work on me.

You are not well. You became dogballs.

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9 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

3B54B944-9AE5-41DD-9EC3-39D2AD0638EB.jpeg

 

But what about the adults who were shot or shot themselves at or near colleges and universities, or some property that was once a school?

Those are "school shootings" too you know.

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Introducing the Jussie Smollett Award For School Safety

First recipient:
 

Quote

 

A Southbridge teacher is accused of leaving ammunition in a school stairwell Thursday morning before calling police to report it.

Southbridge police said high school biology teacher Alfred Purcell III, 57, of Woodstock, Connecticut, reported to staff that he had just found one live round of 9 mm ammunition in the rear stairwell. The school was placed on lock down.

 

 

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Another nominee for the Jussie Smollet School Safety Award
 

Quote

 

Major news outlets were all conned by David Briscoe, who claimed to be a substitute teacher working at the high school that day. The story emerging is that Briscoe falsely promoted himself as a witness to the carnage of the shooting.

...

The problem with his story is that he wasn’t a teacher at the school and he was never a resident of Texas. There is no record of his employment with the Santa Fe Independent School District. The district is confident that no one by that name was on campus that day. A lieutenant for the Galveston County Sheriff’s Office, James Roy, said that Briscoe’s accounting of his location is off, too. (Texas Tribune) The shootings occurred in the art department section, not the wing where English classes are taught.

“If he was anywhere other than that hallway [where the shooting took place], I don’t think he could’ve heard anything but the fire alarm,” he said, referring to the alarm a teacher pulled as a warning to get people out of the school.

According to public records, Briscoe’s home address was a Florida address at the time of the shootings. There is no record of his alleged residence in Texas. After being contacted by the Texas Tribune with their findings, all four media outlets that quoted Briscoe in their stories removed any reference to him.

 

Lying is sometimes bad, but there's always that TeamD/grabby second amendment exception to such rules. Lying in service of grabbing is always OK.

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1 hour ago, Sean said:

500B0FF5-35A9-45B2-A676-A92E2D29FE52.jpeg

How about men who shoot themselves alone at night on real estate that used to be a school?

I mean, it has "school" and "shoot" in the description of what happened, so that's a convenient "school shooting" too, right?

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Did somebody say something?

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3 minutes ago, Sean said:

Did somebody say something?

Not a thing.  Blessedly quiet.

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3 minutes ago, Sean said:

Did somebody say something?

At least he isn't quoting himself.

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

At least he isn't quoting himself.

Peeking, were you?

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LieFi is a more descriptive name than DiFi

But fear will trump facts most of the time, so inventing "hundreds of school shootings using assault weapons that have taken place in recent history" is a winning gungrabby strategy.

Quote

According to a database maintained by Mother Jones, there have been 101 "indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker" since 1982. A Washington Post tally published last October, based on the FBI's definition of mass murder, identified "154 shootings in which four or more people were killed" since 1966. Only a small share of these attacks—16 of 101 in the Mother Jones database—occurred at schools, including universities. Just six of those 16 school attacks involved "assault weapons," which account for about a quarter of the firearms used by mass shooters, most of which are handguns.

 

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4 hours ago, Repastinate Tom said:

LieFi is a more descriptive name than DiFi

But fear will trump facts most of the time, so inventing "hundreds of school shootings using assault weapons that have taken place in recent history" is a winning gungrabby strategy.

 

 

Diane may have mis-spoken, but your article is flawed. It is a real word salad, full of twisted worms, for lunch.

Quote

Second, the shootings are irrelevant to the question of whether banning so-called assault weapons is consistent with the Second Amendment.

I see a big tie between AW supply and a fearful lifestyle, hunkered down in schools.

--The Second Amendment needs to work, to hold its own. It is not more improtant than schooling these days, just because of Larry Pratt.

--Simply put, my dear dogballs, the common use of AW's now threatens schooling, basically... due to, ahem, cough cough, "lawful use at the time." Enough is enough.

--Next, the reason.com source immediately confuses school shootings, DiFi's actual term,  with mass murders.

--The article is careless: It uses handgun shaming to make AW's look better, a Jeffie tool.. Such words , from this source, could backfire sooner rather than latter.

--At the actual nexus of the AW justification within the article, Kavanaugh uses a weak interpretation of Heller, introducing the "AW-is-undefinable" defense".  Weak weak weak.

--Hmmm, Heller unequivocally nixed "M-16's and their elk."  Yo, Antonin Scalia laid it down clearly enough.

 

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On 8/15/2019 at 7:59 PM, Ishmael said:

Peeking, were you?

I don't believe I ever said he was going on my "Ignore" list.  I am fairly certain I said I wasn't going to interact with him.  Those are two different things.

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I am considering putting Mr. Tom Ray on ignore. But I am captivated by the mental trainwreck here. A progression of sorts. 

A Libertarian's progression, which slid right into serial race-baiting.

I give you the progression of Robert Levy, he says he is "The Chair" down at CATO. These guys crack me up, but they do damage too. 

Robert Levy.jpg

Robert Levy, of Naples FL.jpg

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Just checked.  Nobody on my "Ignore" list.  Which is odd, because I HAVE added folks. 

If memory serves, every one I added wound up banned.  Maybe they just become "unpeople" when the ban hammer descends.

Screen Shot 2019-08-18 at 11.49.45 AM.png

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14 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

Ears.

We all have ears. We all have karma too. We need to be careful out there. 

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58 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

We all have ears.

Not like Levy's we don't. Those are special.

 

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1 hour ago, justsomeguy! said:

Not like Levy's we don't. Those are special.

 

Let's debate this. IMO, Levy's ears are not as special as Levy's outcome. Robert Levy per$onally gave us Heller, and his CATO operation gave us Citizen'$ United.

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7 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Let's debate this.

His ears are big. End of debate.

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23 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:
32 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Let's debate this.

His ears are big. End of debate.

Hardly a point worthy of mention.

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On 2/16/2019 at 3:30 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

Not any more than the price of enjoying our 1st, 4th, 5th and other constitutional rights is that some certain level of deaths are a direct result of those freedoms.  Without those pesky constitutional rights, such as the right to privacy and due process, we would have a metric shit ton less dead from the opioid epidemic and from other illegal drug trades,  But sadly, those deaths ARE the price we pay to enjoy those freedoms.  Like it or not you (ALL of you) need to face the reality that people murdered by others will never be eradicated.  But with enough draconian measures, the numbers could be brought down to close to zero.  It just depends on how far you want to go to save a life.  We have always accepted (yet we rarely admit it in good company) that there is and always has been a balance between safety/security and liberty.  It's a constant tug of war and will always be so until the day we finally give up on this democracy experiment and go full on authoritarian Big Brother state.  

So should we Accept school shootings?  No, of course not.  But we will tolerate them because we know the alternative is far worse.  When you all are willing to give up your 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th rights to save just that one child...... then we'll talk.  But frankly if ALL of the Constitutional rights are not on the table for discussion to address our violence issue, then NONE of them are on the table IMHO.

If saving 1st graders lives means putting people found  with AR15’s in prison for a decade I find that a tolerable alternative.

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He didn't lose his ears, looks like he lost his pizazz. 

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Exaggerating and Hyping Fears to Promote Irrational Policies

It remains a big business.
 

Quote

 

...

Inflating the risk of school shootings also can lead to irrational school policies that invade privacy and undermine civil liberties. Last year, the Plano Independent School District, which runs the middle school my youngest daughter attends in Dallas, announced a new policy authorizing "random, suspicion-less metal detector searches" of students in grades 6 through 12. The district planned to use "both walk-through and hand-held metal detectors" on "random groups of students," who would be required to "remove all metallic items from their pockets and person." In addition, "backpacks, bags and personal items capable of concealing a weapon will be opened and inspected for the presence of weapons." Any student "who refuses to comply with the search process will be removed from campus and subject to disciplinary consequences."

...

But such security practices do accomplish something. They condition teenagers to surrender their privacy in response to arbitrary edicts from people in authority, based on zero evidence that they pose any kind of threat. Training young people to accept such invasions leaves them ill-prepared for situations in which police overstep their authority. People who are accustomed to being searched for no reason at all are not likely to assert their constitutional rights when a cop asks if he can peruse their cars, homes, or personal belongings.

 

The idiotic war on guns, much like the stupid drug war, has lots of unintended and negative consequences for our rights.

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Personally, I've found that 'random searches' is just a a polite euphemism for profiling.

I wonder how many kids will be 'randomly' searched to discover such things at Juul pens.  

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22 hours ago, Hypercapnic Tom said:

But such security practices do accomplish something. They condition teenagers to surrender their privacy in response to arbitrary edicts from people in authority, based on zero evidence that they pose any kind of threat. Training young people to accept such invasions leaves them ill-prepared for situations in which police overstep their authority. People who are accustomed to being searched for no reason at all are not likely to assert their constitutional rights when a cop asks if he can peruse their cars, homes, or personal belongings.

 

That's BS!  I have zero issue with metal detectors and searches of bags to get into sporting events, Courthouses, Schools, airports, etc.  I choose to go there and know the rules that one agrees to to be permitted entry.

I don't think that then conditions me to allow a cop to search my home or car without permission.  

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's BS!  I have zero issue with metal detectors and searches of bags to get into sporting events, Courthouses, Schools, airports, etc.  I choose to go there and know the rules that one agrees to to be permitted entry.

I don't think that then conditions me to allow a cop to search my home or car without permission.  

What would you say to random searches of people during a sporting event they were required to attend?

Because "such security practices" was in reference to this:

Quote

Last year, the Plano Independent School District, which runs the middle school my youngest daughter attends in Dallas, announced a new policy authorizing "random, suspicion-less metal detector searches" of students in grades 6 through 12. The district planned to use "both walk-through and hand-held metal detectors" on "random groups of students," who would be required to "remove all metallic items from their pockets and person." In addition, "backpacks, bags and personal items capable of concealing a weapon will be opened and inspected for the presence of weapons." Any student "who refuses to comply with the search process will be removed from campus and subject to disciplinary consequences."

That's a bit beyond a metal detector at the gates of a stadium, don't you think?

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3 hours ago, Olsonist said:


If they're going with that number, they might as well add back in the guy who committed suicide at night on real estate that was once a school. I mean, he shot himself and the word "school" is right there in the description, so it's a school shooting!

 

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:32 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

That's BS!  I have zero issue with metal detectors and searches of bags to get into sporting events, Courthouses, Schools, airports, etc.  I choose to go there and know the rules that one agrees to to be permitted entry.

I don't think that then conditions me to allow a cop to search my home or car without permission.  

Children don't choose to go to school you fuckwit - it's the law.

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On 9/21/2019 at 1:08 PM, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

What would you say to random searches of people during a sporting event they were required to attend?

Because "such security practices" was in reference to this:

That's a bit beyond a metal detector at the gates of a stadium, don't you think?

No no really.  Most sporting events I've been to lately require that your bag be searched if you have one.  That's why they usually suggest to not bring a bag.  And if you trip the metal detector, you have to empty your pockets.  What's the point of a Metal detector if you can go through with lots of metal shit in your pockets???

 

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So, we find that gun mentality, and gun culture baggage, and all things gun,  brought these invasive searches, instead of bringing civil liberties. Just sayin'.

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Chicago managed to go a day without any shootings. Sorta.

Quote

The first day of 2019 without a reported shooting in Chicago was Jan. 14, although two people were hurt in accidental discharges that day.

It's funny how standards differ. As readers of the topic post know, when a school safety officer accidentally/negligently discharges a gun at a school, that's a "school shooting" according to the Keepers of such stats at Bloomietown for Gun Grabbiness. Much like when an adult trespasser is shot at night at a university or when a man commits suicide on real estate that was once a school.

Any way that can be found to link "school" and "shooting" in a headline will be exploited to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs because you have to scare people to get them to support those programs.

8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

literally no one who has kids in school thinks that the war to keep their kids from getting killed is stupid, including people who don't believe in gun regulation.  The sooner you realize this, the sooner your arguments might make sense to parents of school age kids.


Sorry, I just fail to see the danger to children when an adult commits suicide on real estate that was once a school.

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15 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

Chicago managed to go a day without any shootings. Sorta.

It's funny how standards differ. As readers of the topic post know, when a school safety officer accidentally/negligently discharges a gun at a school, that's a "school shooting" according to the Keepers of such stats at Bloomietown for Gun Grabbiness. Much like when an adult trespasser is shot at night at a university or when a man commits suicide on real estate that was once a school.

Any way that can be found to link "school" and "shooting" in a headline will be exploited to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs because you have to scare people to get them to support those programs.


Sorry, I just fail to see the danger to children when an adult commits suicide on real estate that was once a school.

You are tilting at windmills Tom, and ginning up your media complaints based on - well, I'm not sure what.  The many parents I interact with are educated on the subject and actively pursue information on shootings and legislation and many push for change on their own terms.   I'm not sure who you think is being fooled by whatever stat problem you claim is a big deal today.

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11 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

You are tilting at windmills Tom, and ginning up your media complaints based on - well, I'm not sure what.  The many parents I interact with are educated on the subject and actively pursue information on shootings and legislation and many push for change on their own terms.   I'm not sure who you think is being fooled by whatever stat problem you claim is a big deal today.

You don't seem to be a very careful reader sometimes, Clean. Did you read the article from the Washington Post in the topic post? They're not exactly gun nuts but could see Bloomberg's dishonesty and said so.

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11 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 I'm not sure who you think is being fooled by whatever stat problem you claim is a big deal today.

Nobody - that's why dogballs does more talking to himself than anyone else here.

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7 hours ago, garuda3 said:


Not really self-murder related so I'm not sure why that one was in the "gun violence" thread.

It's bound to be counted by Bloomietown for Gun Grabbiness as a "school shooting" but my guess is that the school kids who were home at 1:30 in the morning instead of in a van at a school were mostly not dead as a result of this crime, which broke a host of California gun control and other laws.

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1:30 in the AM???  Wow they sure start elementary skool early out there in kalifornia.  No wonder all ya'lls are so smart out there!

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@Plenipotentiary Tom. @Shootist Jeff.

Seriously. what the damn fuck?

Are you two clowns speaking against the consideration of early-morning shootings on school property? Gunfire at schools is to be accepted, you say?

So...as our kids do active shooter drills by day (instead of learning shit), the gunfire at night needs no concern. And you don't see any problem with this position?

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55 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

 

@Plenipotentiary Tom. @Shootist Jeff.

Seriously. what the damn fuck?

Are you two clowns speaking against the consideration of early-morning shootings on school property? Gunfire at schools is to be accepted, you say?

So...as our kids do active shooter drills by day (instead of learning shit), the gunfire at night needs no concern. And you don't see any problem with this position?

No one is saying that it "needs no concern".  It just doesn't need the concern of calling it a school shooting.  Its more properly a "Parking lot shooting".  If this had happened in the walmart parking lot at 0130 in the eh em, would it have had the outrage factor this one is attempted to be used for furthering political agendas?  I don't think so.  

I'm betting it's just another fallout from the stupid war on drugs and is therefore politically inconvenient.  Certainly less compelling than a SCHOOL SHOOTING!!!!

I'm curious, do you think the school called all the students in by 0245 and ran their active shooter drills?  Or do you think they just let them sleep in?

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You sound dumber and more fanatical with every post.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You sound dumber and more fanatical with every post.

So you believe that something that happened in the early morning in a school parking lot is properly called a "school shooting"?

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You sound dumber and more fanatical with every post.

Fanatical?  Why, because the facts of the case are inconvenient for you?  Is it fanatical to point out the simple truth?  That this was not a school shooting but instead a likely drug related "parking lot" shooting?

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Fucking hopeless - you just don't get it.

Keep splitting those pubic hairs. Possibly in a few generations the country will manage to survive you and your moronic gun nutter elk.

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What the hell is going on in Wisconsin?

Yesterday a 17 year old high school student was shot by the school resource officer after the kid brought a gun to school and refused to drop it when ordered to do so.

Same day, different high school, same community, another kid brought a gun to school.  No one shot.

Today, different community, kid stabs school security officer, kid shot.

 

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10 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

What the hell is going on in Wisconsin?

Yesterday a 17 year old high school student was shot by the school resource officer after the kid brought a gun to school and refused to drop it when ordered to do so.

Same day, different high school, same community, another kid brought a gun to school.  No one shot.

Today, different community, kid stabs school security officer, kid shot.

 

I blame Dr Spock.  And GTA.

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On 11/25/2019 at 4:18 PM, bpm57 said:

 

So you believe that something that happened in the early morning in a school parking lot is properly called a "school shooting"?

I believe that collectively, a lot of gunfire around schools is being dismissed. You and your keen perception have a lot to brush over here, DeadEye..

Let's review the details here, they come from the dogballs  @Plenipotentiary Tom

  • Accidental gun discharges in schools are not gun mayhem, in schools.
  • Gang shootings, in schools, are gang shootingzs, not school shootings.
  • Any gunfire after school is out.
  • School gun suicides are out.
  • Gunfire in the parking lot doesn't count.
  •  

Since these firearms incidents are not atrocities, since they are not active shooter situations, they are not "school shootings," so they don't matter, so we're all good. (Like with AW's, you fog up the definition, then claim there is no problem?)

 

Meanwhile, a whole variety of school-related gunfire is going on (see not far above), and you simply dismiss the phenomena. It's bullshit.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

I believe that collectively, a lot of gunfire around schools is being dismissed. You and your keen perception have a lot to brush over here, DeadEye..

Let's review the details here, they come from the dogballs  @Plenipotentiary Tom

  • Accidental gun discharges in schools are not gun mayhem, in schools.
  • Gang shootings, in schools, are gang shootingzs, not school shootings.
  • Any gunfire after school is out.
  • School gun suicides are out.
  • Gunfire in the parking lot doesn't count.
  •  

Since these firearms incidents are not atrocities, since they are not active shooter situations, they are not "school shootings," so they don't matter, so we're all good. (Like with AW's, you fog up the definition, then claim there is no problem?)

 

Meanwhile, a whole variety of school-related gunfire is going on (see not far above), and you simply dismiss the phenomena. It's bullshit.

 

 

Sorry joey, but definitions ARE important.  If we were to use your loose and flexible method of describing events - we should probably call every gang shooting in shitcago "A Domestic Terrorist Attack" according to the definition:   

Quote

The United States Department of State defined terrorism in 2003 as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

I would say the gang doing the shooting are certainly trying to influence an audience.  Wouldn't you agree, Joey?

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12 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Since these firearms incidents are not atrocities, since they are not active shooter situations, they are not "school shootings," so they don't matter, so we're all good.

Words matter, Joe.

12 hours ago, jocal505 said:

and you simply dismiss the phenomena.

I do? I'm not the person who claims that anything that happens near a school - or even at an ex-school is a "school shooting" - that would be you and your ilk.

I guess no lie is to big when it comes to your "only the government should have guns" mission.

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13 hours ago, bpm57 said:

 

Words matter, Joe.

Our culture is oozing gunfire, eh? And you got semantics.

Look, your fundamental need to accept a definition of "assault weapon", while rejecting all efforts by the way, are not fooling anyone. I just gotta add that marginalizing gun mayhem around school settings is not for me. YMMV. 

 

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4 hours ago, jocal505 said:

I just gotta add that marginalizing gun mayhem around school settings is not for me. YMMV. 

Who the fuck is "marginalizing" it???  We are just calling them what they are.... drug related crime.

Hyper-sensationalizing them by lying about what they really are, OTOH, is not for me.  If you can't win your argument without resorting to making shit up.... then you've already lost.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

. drug related crime.

 

what's that?  is a drunken husband killing his wife just 'drug-related crime' or is it also something else?  Is it possible for a crime to be fit into more than one of your categories.

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22 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

If you can't win your argument without resorting to making shit up.... then you've already lost.

(I'll just spare us the Pee Wee bikini poster, where you took the position, flat out, that Heller didn't grant home gun rights.)

 

The problem Jeff,  is the steady pattern of the peripheral gunfire in and around schools. Think exposure.

Maybe you can present a niftier name for non-active-shooter-type school gun mayhem, so we can parse the school gun mayhem properly. But such is fog, Jeffie. The reporting of the problem is not the problem.

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