southerncross

VOR Leg 7 Auckland to Itajai

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4 minutes ago, damagesmith said:

Wasn't Scallywags AIS broken?

Apparently was at a point early in the leg.

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3 minutes ago, damagesmith said:

Wasn't Scallywags AIS broken?

Yes I believe it was... utterly tragic situation

I suspect moving forward if required safety equipment is no longer functioning, teams may be obligated to drop out of racing that leg

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

Yes I believe it was... utterly tragic situation

I suspect moving forward if required safety equipment is no longer functioning, teams may be obligated to drop out of racing that leg

This could be a big deal if it turns out this is why they couldn't find him

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Wow. 

Fish was one of the good ones. 

Best wishes to family, friends, and teammates. 

Life at the extreme indeed, but something needs to be done to improve safety  

 

-jd

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Mr Fisher is #6 for this race. I can't easilly recall the events of those before Hans Horrevoets in 2006 other than there was 3 in the inaugral race and 1 in the 1989/90 edition as following the race back then involved reading the newspaper. How times have changed.

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38 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

These units they carry are great but only AIS/VHF, not 406 MHz / satellite capable. 

http://oceansignal.com/products/mob1/

Am I right thinking they don't get 406 MHz units?

I'm not sure what the current status of combined units coming to market is, a regulatory issue in the US I last recall.

That's correct, the Ocean Signal MOB1 is AIS and DSC only. I carry the MOB1 in my Deckvest along with a hand-held VHF with GPS & DSC and the PLB1. For the MOB1 to work properly, the antenna would need to be out of the water long enough to get a signal out. Given the sea state, it's possilbe its range was significantly reduced. If it is properly integrated onto the bladder, it will automatically start once the bladder inflates. The Deckvest also has an integrated pylon strobe but it's rather small. The Deckvest bladder is a very bright yellow-green.

 

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Christies Sailing Club

5 hrs · 

******Tragic News******
Club Member John Fisher is currently missing at Sea after going Man Over Board while doing the Volvo Ocean race. 

Marc is opening up the club just now for those of you that want to be together to support each other at this tragic time. 

Our thoughts and prayers go out to Kirsten, Ryan and Amy. No words can express our sympathy and pain.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/christiessailingclub/posts/?ref=page_internal

 

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14 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

AIS transponder does not equal AIS receiver.

Besides which - for such a critical piece of safety equipment, I'd be very surprised if they didn't have backup AIS receivers.

They do Dunc, their VHF radio has a AIS reciever built in.

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

They do Dunc, their VHF radio has a AIS reciever built in.

xacry - and I'd be surprised if they only had one AIS capable VHF on board.

Probably have two receivers plus a VHF, plus plus

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, despacio avenue said:

That makes sense to me. 

 

Edited by despacio avenue
delete as duplicative and mistakenly posted again

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14 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

xacry - and I'd be surprised if they only had one AIS capable VHF on board.

Probably have two receivers plus a VHF, plus plus

Dunc I don't for one minute like you think their was any reciever issue. If anything that sea state would make transmission a big ask. Maybe some good might come out of this horrible episode like antennas built into PFD hoods or something.

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Puerto Montt is the closer port, and it has facilities, although there is the Canal de Tezlo to travel through to reach it, but it is considerably smaller than Valparaiso. So Valpo cb SKHSK's destination as well. 

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Godspeed John Fisher. He was doing what he loved with his friends, racing around the world,  going fast.  

Rest In Peace, sailor, you’re off watch now. 

 

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This is really screwing me up. I've talked about it at work but no one really understands, so I come back to SA for a bit of reassurance from the sailing community that it's okay to be upset and angry.

I told my 10 year old lad this morning - kind of by mistake - he heard me shout out a bad word when I read the VOR Facebook post. The young fella burst into tears, as he remembered meeting Fish on Scally in Auckland and how huge his hands were when they shook. Fucked up.

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Yes I believe it was... utterly tragic situation

I suspect moving forward if required safety equipment is no longer functioning, teams may be obligated to drop out of racing that leg

How do you drop out of a race in the Southern Ocean? 

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1 hour ago, damagesmith said:

This could be a big deal if it turns out this is why they couldn't find him

Here we go again. How about waiting for some solid information and FACTS before wrapping up your own little coroners inquiry? 

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I can't find any reference to scallywag having AIS trouble. Brunel was having AIS troubled according to this:

"“It just feels like there’s always something to do,” Abby Ehler explained. “We had a couple of breakages on the first day, we’ve got a little tear in the J2 and our AIS isn’t working, which is a real hindrance not being able to see the rest of the fleet. We’re working our way through all these mishaps.”"

https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/11294_Turning-to-the-east-pointing-to-Cape-Horn.html

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Really sad news.  We as keen sailors and followers of the race are all really so close to all the sailors without quite realising it till something like this happens. Thoughts to his family and the crew. I will be raising a beer to him tonight after work

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1 hour ago, windsurfer said:

Life at the extreme indeed, but something needs to be done to improve safety

I'm no statistician but my bet is based on cumulative miles per person and incidents involving loss of life then this race is probably one of the safest offshore events going. 

Also if you take out the inaugral edition where three died, that number what ever it is halves.

That is not to say there is no room for continual improvement, but so far those responsible for this aspect, onboard and ashore, seem to have been doing a pretty good job.

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45 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Dunc I don't for one minute like you think their was any reciever issue. If anything that sea state would make transmission a big ask. Maybe some good might come out of this horrible episode like antennas built into PFD hoods or something.

Or antennas/ strobe built into mandatory mob pole(s) that puts light/or any other frequency a few feet above the surface once it's thrown immediately after mob somewhere in the vicinity. Not perfect, and not much more of a reassurance in that sea state and speed, but something to think about.

Of the many accounts I've come across of the Southern Ocean, there seems to be a recurring theme, a divergence between its beauty and its anger.  If this is to be a final resting place, may family, friends, crew, and skipper eventually remember only the beauty.

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Just now, fufkin said:

Or antennas/ strobe built into mandatory mob pole(s) that puts light/or any other frequency a few feet above the surface once it's thrown immediately after mob somewhere in the vicinity. Not perfect, and not much more of a reassurance in that sea state and speed, but something to think about.

This is a great idea. a 5-10kg lithium battery and lots of LED's like the ones used on lightbars, flood lights, etc. would be pretty effective.

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47 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

How do you drop out of a race in the Southern Ocean? 

That's a good question, and it might be one of those cases where laying off the pace makes it even more dangerous, but I was considering the earlier article discussing how everyone is pushing it all the time, even in truly insane conditions. In the event any of your safety gear fails (btw I incorrectly stated this was the case) you switch to a different slower/safer mode with more contingencies in place for crew management etc...

"Sometimes I would think this is crazy ... we've got to slow down. But if you don't put up the big sails you finish last. You have competitive people who want to win."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12020804

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Shocking news and one of the worst places possible to happen with crappy weather bearing down.

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5 minutes ago, bayboy said:

Shocking news and one of the worst places possible to happen with crappy weather bearing down.

I thought about this too, it was just a little while ago the VOR & we here were talking about "Point Nemo" & now the worst possible ramifications of that have come home to roost.

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To bring this horrible thing into perspective, bad shit can happen in any sport, sometimes expected sometimes not. Like for instance I'm sure this Croatian soccer player didn't run on to the pitch on Sunday expecting to be killed by the ball.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-26/croatian-footballer-dies-on-pitch-after-being-hit-with-ball/9586414

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Dunc I don't for one minute like you think their was any reciever issue. If anything that sea state would make transmission a big ask. Maybe some good might come out of this horrible episode like antennas built into PFD hoods or something.

There have been tests showing AIS MOB being visible at least 3.5 M at sea to a mast top antenna of a much smaller boat. It should be quite easy to get very close (10 m or so) to the AIS target once you have reception. It seems that they did not got reception. Or how could it be possible they got no visual contact?

Do they have a system to automatically get an alarm and MOB position to GPS? Or could it happen that it has taken a few minutes to notice the MOB and thus it would be much more difficult to get back to AIS MOB range.

We just had safety training here for our offshore sailors. We were shown the earlier Scallywag MOB case video as an example of effective pickup using a rope.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm no statistician but my bet is based on cumulative miles per person and incidents involving loss of life then this race is probably one of the safest offshore events going. 

Also if you take out the inaugral edition where three died, that number what ever it is halves.

Equally insightful (as usual), speaks volumes to the older set like myself before risk management was a serious thing.

Shamefully I have been thinking about my own fortunes in still being in the Land of the Living considering the era in construction I started in with all limbs intact & drawing breath, I can think of 5 guys I worked with that no longer enjoy this bright warm thing we call life.

I hope the Soul Society has a sea on which a fellow like Fish can ply his trade.

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6 hours ago, BR3232 said:

I know we've had threads and endless discussions on this, but why do the boats have to be so damn wet? It looks interesting for ludites but it's bloody dangerous.

Yes, these boats are bloody submarines. They shouldn't, this is a OD class, ultimate speed doesn't matter. 

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I've been watching this all day with my heart in my throat. I can only hope that Fish knows that he didn't perish alone, and that he had the love, hopes ,and prayers of his peers with him. Condolences to all of his friends and family, and I truly pray for peace for the crew of Scallywag. I can't imagine the pain that they are in.

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I realise there is little option but for Scally to get out of the washing machine and head for Chile. 

However I do hope those on board get the chance to experience the embrace of their fellow competitors sooner than later. Particularly with those like Tienpont, SciFi, Luke Malloy and Bicey who were on ABN Amro 2 in 2006 when Hans Horrevoets went over, albeit his body was recovered (by Tienpont). Also any of the Moviestar crew who ABNA2 subsequently took on board after she sank, like Bouwe, Capey and Nicho and have seen the impact first hand of something like this.

There is a lot peer healing power there, particularly for poor Witty who will need every ounce of it.

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37 minutes ago, Joakim said:

There have been tests showing AIS MOB being visible at least 3.5 M at sea to a mast top antenna of a much smaller boat. It should be quite easy to get very close (10 m or so) to the AIS target once you have reception. It seems that they did not got reception. Or how could it be possible they got no visual contact?

Do they have a system to automatically get an alarm and MOB position to GPS? Or could it happen that it has taken a few minutes to notice the MOB and thus it would be much more difficult to get back to AIS MOB range.

We just had safety training here for our offshore sailors. We were shown the earlier Scallywag MOB case video as an example of effective pickup using a rope.

crunch the numbers.

 

3 on deck at 20+ kn.

One goes over. Oh fuck. Hit the MOB button and an alarm goes off to alert those below.

#2 dumps the main and you luff into 30-40kn - probably not?  rig will shake out of boat.

So now you're waiting for someone to come up - hopefully a crew on standby in full gear ready for when shit happens.

Now we're at 30s in -- 0.17nm or over 300m away.

Furl the J and codes like buggery - another minute? - almost a km away now.

 

I wonder if you're better throwing the boat into a chinese to stop. At least she'll lay over and play dead.  Who wants to try that out in 30foot seas? The resulting clusterfuck will take tens of minutes to resolve.

 

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37 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Do they have a system to automatically get an alarm and MOB position to GPS?

MOB button by the wheel.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I realise there is little option but for Scally to get out of the washing machine and head for Chile. 

However I do hope those on board get the chance to experience the embrace of their fellow competitors sooner than later. Particularly with those like Tienpont, SciFi, Luke Malloy and Bicey who were on ABN Amro 2 in 2006 when Hans Horrevoets went over, albeit his body was recovered (by Tienpont). Also any of the Moviestar crew who ABNA2 subsequently took on board after she sank, like Bouwe, Capey and Nicho and have seen the impact first hand of something like this.

There is a lot peer healing power there, particularly for poor Witty who will need every ounce of it.

Yeah good point Jack. They will catch up eventually however long way to go. They recovered Hans and he was placed in the bow for quite some time before he could be transferred. The terrible thing for David Witt and team is they simply couldn't find John and the pain of having to give up without any resolution. All our hearts go out to John's family and the Scallywag team

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2 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

crunch the numbers.

 

3 on deck at 20+ kn.

One goes over. Oh fuck. Hit the MOB button and an alarm goes off to alert those below.

#2 dumps the main and you luff at 30-40kn - probably not?  rig will shake out of boat.

So now you're waiting for someone to come up - hopefully a crew on standby in full gear ready for when shit happens.

Now we're at 30s in -- 0.17nm or over 300m away.

Furl the J and codes like buggery - another minute? - almost a km away now.

 

I wonder if you're better throwing the boat into a chinese to stop. At least she'll lay over and play dead.  Who wants to try that out in 30foot seas?

 

Sure they end up quite far before they stop and start heading back. But if they have a valid MOB position stored in GPS they should easily get back to AIS MOB range and then find the AIS MOB within 10 m at some time. Might be too late, but should be possible to get a visual contact.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

MOB button by the wheel.

OK. So it could be the driver did not notice MOB and the MOB button was pressed too late to have an accurate location for starting the search.

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4 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Sure they end up quite far before they stop and start heading back. But if they have a valid MOB position stored in GPS they should easily get back to AIS MOB range and then find the AIS MOB within 10 m at some time. Might be too late, but should be possible to get a visual contact.

sure, if everything worked as designed  -- we can only speculate as to what actually happened during the search.

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4 minutes ago, Joakim said:

OK. So it could be the driver did not notice MOB and the MOB button was pressed too late to have an accurate location for starting the search.

Mate give speculation like that a rest will you. It's offensive.

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I certainly hope the ship that is 400 miles away can find him aive, but realistically any MOB incident in heavy southern ocean conditions is a death sentence.

To die  while doing something we love... we should all be so lucky. 

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4 minutes ago, Joakim said:

OK. So it could be the driver did not notice MOB and the MOB button was pressed too late to have an accurate location for starting the search.

could be the whole on-deck crew got swept out the back on the end of their tethers or pinned under a moving stack... we can speculate all we want. Let's not.

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13 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Sure they end up quite far before they stop and start heading back. But if they have a valid MOB position stored in GPS they should easily get back to AIS MOB range and then find the AIS MOB within 10 m at some time. Might be too late, but should be possible to get a visual contact.

Even with an accurate MOB position and say Libby's minute by minute drift calcs were accurate to say a 100 metre radius, getting a visual in those conditions would be as hard as fuck.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Even with an accurate MOB position and say Libby's minute by minute drift calcs were accurate to say a 100 metre radius, getting a visual in those conditions would be as hard as fuck.

Why are they not using an automatic MOB detection system? Isn't that quite trivial with all the technology they have. Even something as simple as this.

I understand it is very hard to find a person in those conditions without help using just MOB position recorded. But you should easily get back to 100-500 m from the target using MOB position. That should be more than good enough to get AIS MOB signal, which should guide you to the target with 10 m accuracy.

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Hope this isn't a re-post.

 

Statement by Lee Seng Huang and Sun Hung Kai & Co: owner and sponsor of Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag:

“We are devastated by the news involving our crew member, John Fisher, following a man overboard incident early on Monday afternoon UTC.

Witty and the Scallywag crew have been battling extremely treacherous conditions in the Southern Ocean and this tragedy is heart breaking.

The crew did everything they could to recover John, leading an extensive search and rescue operation in stormy conditions. Now, with the forecast worsening and night falling, the team has made the difficult decision to head for landfall, 1,200 nautical miles away in South America.

Over our long passages, I have come to know Fish well. Despite the dangers of the sport he loved his sailing. He is one of our own, a long-standing member of the team. He is a great and experienced sailor, the finest human being and a true Scallywag.

Our thoughts and prayers are with John’s family and the crew at this most difficult time, and we are working with Volvo Ocean Race to provide all the support we can. Our focus now, is getting the boat and crew to a safe harbour.”

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=558338334539156&id=426357004403957

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get a beach ball and toss it overboard next time you're out .

then yell man overboard and see how long the crew can track it , if they can even see it .

then factor in the southern ocean .

 

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2 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Why are they not using an automatic MOB detection system? Isn't that quite trivial with all the technology they have. Even something as simple as this.

I understand it is very hard to find a person in those conditions without help using just MOB position recorded. But you should easily get back to 100-500 m from the target using MOB position. That should be more than good enough to get AIS MOB signal, which should guide you to the target with 10 m accuracy.

in these conditions , you are dreaming  . You never sailed like this whith a boat around 20 knots . You need many more to get back

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29 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

MOB button by the wheel.

With westerlies year round, there must be some current down there. So the Gps WP must be wrong quite quickly. 

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2 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Why are they not using an automatic MOB detection system? Isn't that quite trivial with all the technology they have. Even something as simple as this.

I understand it is very hard to find a person in those conditions without help using just MOB position recorded. But you should easily get back to 100-500 m from the target using MOB position. That should be more than good enough to get AIS MOB signal, which should guide you to the target with 10 m accuracy.

even with a fix to within meters, they still have to be able to turn around to find him without capsizing first. it's impossible to see beyond the next wave in those conditions, maybe the other wave after that if you're at the top of the swell.

I don't imagine turning the engine on helps in those conditions?

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2 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

You guys aren't listening to Joakim - he's talking about the AIS every crew was carrying, not visual search.

His premise is returning to being within AIS range, providing there is a signal of course. Thats great, but no signal then visual is all they have.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

His premise is returning to being within AIS range, providing there is a signal of course. Thats great, but no signal then visual is all they have.

of course.  Like I said -- you have to assume all these high tech gadgets are where they need to be, set up correctly, used correctly, and work as designed.  There's a whole chain of things, technology and human, that need to work just right.

 

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38 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I realise there is little option but for Scally to get out of the washing machine and head for Chile. 

However I do hope those on board get the chance to experience the embrace of their fellow competitors sooner than later. Particularly with those like Tienpont, SciFi, Luke Malloy and Bicey who were on ABN Amro 2 in 2006 when Hans Horrevoets went over, albeit his body was recovered (by Tienpont). Also any of the Moviestar crew who ABNA2 subsequently took on board after she sank, like Bouwe, Capey and Nicho and have seen the impact first hand of something like this.

There is a lot peer healing power there, particularly for poor Witty who will need every ounce of it.

Well said Jack.  I remember waving goodbye to Hans and the crew in Baltimore and hoped to never hear that message again.  I feel for them all.  

I also stick to my earlier statements about this class of boats vs the trimarans that they should be sailing.  An ocean tri around 75 feet with a set up like the current g class just has to be a safer and faster alternative to the semi submersibles they are on now.

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2 minutes ago, Puntone said:

in these conditions , you are dreaming  . You never sailed like this whith a boat around 20 knots . You need many more to get back

No, I haven't sailed anywhere near that location nor in those conditions with that kind of boat. Still I know the accuracy of a GPS is about 10 m even there. If you press the MOB button at the correct time or get an automatic MOB position, you should be able to get back to that location very accurately. You have the instruments to show current. So even if you come back say half an our later, you should be able to be within 500 m from the MOB. Then you should easily get AIS MOB reception and eventually get very close to the MOB. Or you could even have AIS MOB reception the whole time.

This is how everything is suppose to work AFAIK. Apparently some part of that chain failed.

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8 hours ago, react said:

In the March 22nd Daily Live broadcast Scallywag reported their AIS reception had been broken for a couple of days. RIP.

Really? That explains a lot!

I thought Brunnel had a broken AIS in this leg.

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This thread should stop,. Stop the speculation and what should happen, a man has died give him the respect of a 24 hour hiatusfrom this bullshit.

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3 minutes ago, thetruth said:

This thread should stop,. Stop the speculation and what should happen, a man has died give him the respect of a 24 hour hiatusfrom this bullshit.

you are new round here aren't you .

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Indeed.

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16 minutes ago, Joakim said:

This is how everything is suppose to work AFAIK. Apparently some part of that chain failed.

Let me guess...your a private detective who charges by the word.

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17 minutes ago, Joakim said:

No, I haven't sailed anywhere near that location nor in those conditions with that kind of boat. Still I know the accuracy of a GPS is about 10 m even there. If you press the MOB button at the correct time or get an automatic MOB position, you should be able to get back to that location very accurately. You have the instruments to show current. So even if you come back say half an our later, you should be able to be within 500 m from the MOB. Then you should easily get AIS MOB reception and eventually get very close to the MOB. Or you could even have AIS MOB reception the whole time.

This is how everything is suppose to work AFAIK. Apparently some part of that chain failed.

You seriously need to get a grip on where in the world they are.  Theory and "shoulda" "woulda" "oughta" go out the window with the reality of 45 knots, huge seas etc

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14 minutes ago, thetruth said:

This thread should stop,. Stop the speculation and what should happen,

There is respectful and disrespectful commentary and speculation. To date there has not been too many instances of the latter, which is rare for this joint.

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20 minutes ago, Joakim said:

No, I haven't sailed anywhere near that location nor in those conditions with that kind of boat. Still I know the accuracy of a GPS is about 10 m even there. If you press the MOB button at the correct time or get an automatic MOB position, you should be able to get back to that location very accurately. You have the instruments to show current. So even if you come back say half an our later, you should be able to be within 500 m from the MOB. Then you should easily get AIS MOB reception and eventually get very close to the MOB. Or you could even have AIS MOB reception the whole time.

This is how everything is suppose to work AFAIK. Apparently some part of that chain failed.

If the instructor on your recent safety training told you that nobody can get lost if they have this equipment, you should get your money back. Now fuck off with your stupid speculations, we don't know what happened yet.

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1 hour ago, duncan (the other one) said:

crunch the numbers.

 

3 on deck at 20+ kn.

One goes over. Oh fuck. Hit the MOB button and an alarm goes off to alert those below.

#2 dumps the main and you luff into 30-40kn - probably not?  rig will shake out of boat.

So now you're waiting for someone to come up - hopefully a crew on standby in full gear ready for when shit happens.

Now we're at 30s in -- 0.17nm or over 300m away.

Furl the J and codes like buggery - another minute? - almost a km away now.

 

I wonder if you're better throwing the boat into a chinese to stop. At least she'll lay over and play dead.  Who wants to try that out in 30foot seas? The resulting clusterfuck will take tens of minutes to resolve.

 

Maybe it would take tens of minutes - the key message i was always taught was to stop the boat.

And maybe they did - we don't know...

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1 minute ago, DtM said:

You seriously need to get a grip on where in the world they are.  Theory and "shoulda" "woulda" "oughta" go out the window with the reality of 45 knots, huge seas etc

I understand conditions are very difficult, but what part of what I said is known to fail there? Driving the boat close is very difficult, but with the skills they have they should have been able to do it within the several hours they tried. If they had AIS MOB reception to guide them accurately towards the MOB.

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At the risk  of repeating myself, stop the boat in 45 knots and massive seas. Really.  That is great in theory. In practice I have no idea at all how you do it quickly without putting everyone on board at enormous risk.

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37 minutes ago, thetruth said:

This thread should stop,. Stop the speculation and what should happen, a man has died give him the respect of a 24 hour hiatusfrom this bullshit.

Shut up.. this is just one of the many ways that people deal with what has happened. All he and others are doing is going through a process to understand in their own minds what and how this could have happened.

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12 minutes ago, Joakim said:

I understand conditions are very difficult, but what part of what I said is known to fail there? Driving the boat close is very difficult, but with the skills they have they should have been able to do it within the several hours they tried. If they had AIS MOB reception to guide them accurately towards the MOB.

I have been polite with you, a trait I'm not exactly renoun for ..but it really is time for you and your fishing expedition that is underpinned by zero experience, to fuck off.

 

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29 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

- the key message i was always taught was to stop the boat.

If that is all you were taught you were taught wrong. Without "control" your are of no use to anyone not on board and endangering the boat and those still on board.

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22 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

Maybe it would take tens of minutes - the key message i was always taught was to stop the boat.

And maybe they did - we don't know...

If running a heavy assy with the keel at full cant, you cannot just "stop the boat"  A handbrake turn stop from 20 plus knots in the reported 35 knots winds and 6m seas would very likely dismast the boat and then you have a whole different scenario, putting the entire crew at risk. 

So sad to hear of this tragedy. 

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so sad that john has gone one of the good guys 

you can imagine the questions that will be coming 

-was he tethered 

-was mob pressed

- did ais work

 

v sad for the crew too as they had a lucky escape with mob earlier leg 

with all the spin to come will we ever know ???

 

 

 

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As deeply sad as it is, the race to the Horn continues. BRUNEL extending again. 

Screen Shot 2018-03-27 at 8.41.22 PM.png

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What a tragedy, my thoughts and prayers are with Fisher’s family and friends.

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18 minutes ago, barfly said:

you can imagine the questions that will be coming 

-was he tethered 

-was mob pressed

- did ais work

bar you are right and frustrating as it is, that detail shit will take a while to surface. Most here are not interested in the goulish details but are keen to apply corrective measures to their own sailing endevours if it is shown to be necessary by this horrible incident.

As a guide to how long that may take, well it wasn't until the Moviestar guys stepped off ABN Amro 2 along with Hans Horrevoets body in 2006 that it first came to light Hans wasn't tethered.

Full details didn't emerge until ABNA2 subsequently finished the Leg and to my knowledge the crew have never spoken publicly about it since.

This shit hurts survivors a lot.

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I wake up with the same feeling I went to bed last night:  taking the decission to head away, not knowing where he is but knowing he really is there, must be terrific. A lump in the throat.

My condolences.

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1 hour ago, Joakim said:

Why are they not using an automatic MOB detection system? Isn't that quite trivial with all the technology they have. Even something as simple as this.

I understand it is very hard to find a person in those conditions without help using just MOB position recorded. But you should easily get back to 100-500 m from the target using MOB position. That should be more than good enough to get AIS MOB signal, which should guide you to the target with 10 m accuracy.

Joakim, you have no idea what you are talking about and should stop. Apart from all the difficulties explained to you also realise these boats do not sail to windward and are fitted with an engine suitable only for charging and docking pretty much. Punching into 40knts and big seas they would be lucky to get back there at all and manouvering if they did would be extremely dangerous. All the electronic gizmos you can imagine don't change that.

 

1 hour ago, Hold Fast said:

Yes one report I heard said he fell overboard in "inclement" weather.
The bar at Christies Sailing Club opened this morning for mates to gather. Its a small off the beach club and normally only open on weekends.

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24 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If that is all you were taught you were taught wrong. Without "control" your are of no use to anyone not on board and endangering the boat and those still on board.

Totally agree JS - stopping the boat is one thing (and you aim to do it), staying in control is more important, as you are no use to anyone if you're out of control, sails and lines in the piss - and the conditions they were in, fuck, just fuck.

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

As deeply sad as it is, the race to the Horn continues. BRUNEL extending again. 

Screen Shot 2018-03-27 at 8.41.22 PM.png

Yes the Caped Crusaders are doing a great job and look to have a bonus point almost in the bag.

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An aside, I wonder why they stopped tracking Scally. Vestas was on screen throughout their debacle off HK.

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1 hour ago, Joakim said:

No, I haven't sailed anywhere near that location nor in those conditions with that kind of boat. Still I know the accuracy of a GPS is about 10 m even there. If you press the MOB button at the correct time or get an automatic MOB position, you should be able to get back to that location very accurately. You have the instruments to show current. So even if you come back say half an our later, you should be able to be within 500 m from the MOB. Then you should easily get AIS MOB reception and eventually get very close to the MOB. Or you could even have AIS MOB reception the whole time.

This is how everything is suppose to work AFAIK. Apparently some part of that chain failed.

Joakim , go back to your playstation and Virtual skipper game

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4 minutes ago, paps49 said:

An aside, I wonder why they stopped tracking Scally. Vestas was on screen throughout their debacle off HK.

I imagine, paps VOR was trying to avoid this forum spotting the possibility of a MOB from the various trackers we follow, as was the case in HK. 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

Maybe it would take tens of minutes - the key message i was always taught was to stop the boat.

And maybe they did - we don't know...

 

36 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If that is all you were taught you were taught wrong. Without "control" your are of no use to anyone not on board and endangering the boat and those still on board.

Jack, I don't want to get into the discussion at this time, but consider that there might be different opinions on this. I would think there will  be a thread on the subject in due time, and am reserving my point of view for later.

And please give Joakim a break, he is not offensive. Rather give us some more insight on how you guys dealt with the Hans Horrevoets tragedy, if you can. Thanks.

Edit: ok Jack, "no worries", if that is the right thing to say, dunno.

Edited by Fiji Bitter
no worries

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53 minutes ago, Joakim said:

I understand conditions are very difficult, but what part of what I said is known to fail there? Driving the boat close is very difficult, but with the skills they have they should have been able to do it within the several hours they tried. If they had AIS MOB reception to guide them accurately towards the MOB.

Will you just shut the fuck up with your suppositions for a few days? <_<

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Woke up with a heavy heart, kept thinking about the recovery attempts. It is a noble attempt to provide much welcomed relief for the family and crew, but it did have little chance of success imo. A MOB in these SO conditions is almost certain fatal. Stopping the boat and turning upwind is very dangerous and hard to do. Even with AIS help, visibility is very limited especially at dawn or at night. Priority should be with keeping the remaining crew safe, so I think Witty should not have stayed any longer given their are chased by a cold front. The needed to get the hell out of there and get to Chile or perhaps even Itajay. Very though decisions in a though leg in though race... thoughts are with the crew, they will be physically and mentally exhausted and drained. Stay safe, please. 

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19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Full details didn't emerge until ABNA2 subsequently finished the Leg and to my knowledge the crew have never spoken publicly about it since.

This shit hurts survivors a lot.

There was recent Dutch documentary about this, SiFi had wet eyes still. It is horrendous, survivors guilt is a beast. 

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18 minutes ago, paps49 said:

An aside, I wonder why they stopped tracking Scally. Vestas was on screen throughout their debacle off HK.

Simple.... to starve the goulish ones of oxygen for commenting on Scally's SAR tracks between daybreak and dusk.

Smart RO.

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