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VOR Leg 7 Auckland to Itajai

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Sun Hung Kai Scallywag Retweeted teamAkzoNobel

We want to thank Simeon and @teamAkzoNobel for their support and kind words for John Fisher during this devastating time.

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Think this is the message SHKS team received

 

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Live worth a look for Akzo drone (the only one who got one airborne) footage and Ian Walker saying their VO65 MOB turnaround practise times in 25k flat water was 45 minutes. That says a lot.

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1 minute ago, stief said:

Think this is the message SHKS team received

Yeah, sorry, task master.  :D  It was in the Live. 

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

It looks as though daylight roundings tomorrow....hope they have a helo.

If not, Live showed drones have been doing a great job . . . . as you said :) (sorry--too slow. rereading Ian Walker's account of the Luzon time)

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37 minutes ago, boomer said:

When one goes to the tracker and scrolls back, note how Brunel has been sailing consistently deeper then the rest of the fleet.

Vestas has been sailing deeper too, especially of late, but not with the consistency of Brunel.

What footage/pictures that have been available, seems like they're sailing DDW in a manner more like a performance cruiser than a VO65. Conservatively reefed main - code zero at the front with a blade jib. Minimal heel. With the cold conditions and sea state down there - seems like you can be doing 20 knots and the apparent wind will still be on the beam. 

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Sorry to post these if you've seen them.  I love this shit.  Watch Nicho helm.

 

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8 minutes ago, southerncross said:

 

This! This is the clip to challenge Telefonica's wave clip. 

And by a drone!  Keep 'em coming, please.

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2 hours ago, mario147 said:

At the risk of being laughed at, why don't use drones as a safety measure? A kind of follow-me-drone device that diverts the drone to sit some meters on top of a MOB activated device? It will be much easier to track the drone than the guy on the water. Also drone camera can be of great help for track and rescue...

 

1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

Because in 40 knots winds  you  need a drone capable of flying at  speeds of 40 knots  to stay still.

Drones have the speed - hence the great shots recently - and they are matching pace with the boats so are flying in 20 apparent, not forty. Problem is battery life. Max about 30 minutes even for the best pro drones

Your follow-me rescue drone would have to launch on command at the MOB signal and would only have thirty minutes in the air after that. It's an interesting idea but it's technology that doesn't exist yet. Probably better with an old fashioned danbuoy (or an inflatable) with a strobe at the top of the pole and an AIS/PLB beacon.

John was reportedly wearing best available technology and sadly it was not good enough.

In my view, it doesn't matter what safety gear you have. If you go overboard in the SO (or any Ocean) in 30 plus knots you are almost 100% certainly dead. It's a risk we all have to accept.

 

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4 minutes ago, Andalay said:

Your follow-me rescue drone would have to launch on command at the MOB signal and would only have thirty minutes in the air after that. It's an interesting idea but it's technology that doesn't exist yet.

It is an interesting idea.  Drones are being used extensively in search and rescue operations now with great success.  With thermal imaging they are able to find missing hikers and mountain climbers more readily.

A MOB button launch of a drone that would carry a payload to the MOB or at least hold a position over the MOB is possible.

 

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19 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Multiple below deck injuries.  

Powerful clip. Mental and physical injuries, and almost as bad down below. Expect this clip will be used for righteous posts calling for air bags and  tethers in the head area, and handholds for smaller people. Sensible nav architects will be studying this one.

Another back injury bullet dodged. Whew.

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2 hours ago, mario147 said:

At the risk of being laughed at, why don't use drones as a safety measure? A kind of follow-me-drone device that diverts the drone to sit some meters on top of a MOB activated device? It will be much easier to track the drone than the guy on the water. Also drone camera can be of great help for track and rescue...

Your kidding right - do you know the life of the battery for a drone.  How about in those temps. 

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

It is an interesting idea.  Drones are being used extensively in search and rescue operations now with great success.  With thermal imaging they are able to find missing hikers and mountain climbers more readily.

A MOB button launch of a drone that would carry a payload to the MOB or at least hold a position over the MOB is possible.

 

Interesting, thanks.

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25 minutes ago, stief said:

Expect this clip will be used for righteous posts calling for tethers in the head area and handholds for smaller people

Hancock is probably writing as we speak.."Why Aren't VOR Fat-Suits Mandatory Below"

$_12.jpeg

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Rare glimpse of Mapfre teams showing wear, tear and fatigue.

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hancock is probably writing as we speak.."Why Aren't VOR Fat-Suits Mandatory"

and air bags . . 

He'd understand the thinking behind Red Flag Traffic Laws

01_old-Laws-Bumper-Sticker-Dallas-News.j

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Nice ...especially with recent events.

At almost any other time I'd dismiss this as sentimental exploitation.

Not this one. Works, so thanks for the find.

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23 minutes ago, stief said:

Powerful clip. Mental and physical injuries, and almost as bad down below. Expect this clip will be used for righteous posts calling for air bags and  tethers in the head area, and handholds for smaller people. Sensible nav architects will be studying this one.

Another back injury bullet dodged. Whew.

 

The VOR 65's have been specifically mentioned as being difficult for smaller statute sailors from the very beginning. On the list of suggested improvements, better accomodations for smaller sailors - made very apparent basically the moment they brought on experienced sailors to do the mockups. But by that point the hull and deck design was basically set in stone.

There's a whole list of "wishes" that was to be incorporated into the new VO60s - but who knows what's going on now.

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

The VOR 65's have been specifically mentioned as being difficult for smaller statute sailors from the very beginning.

Winching on tippy decks for the verticaly challenged is a big gripe.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Winching on tippy decks for the verticaly challenged is a big gripe.

It is a tough one to manage human factors - every imoca owner gets to make adjustments for their own. Sam Davies isn't going to do another VG with pedestals too high for her, or handholds so high she can't transition safely without having to take a step of faith. But these boats aren't going to get customized like the imocas. 

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51 minutes ago, stief said:

This! This is the clip to challenge Telefonica's wave clip. 

And by a drone!  Keep 'em coming, please.

Awesome footage, flying every bit of rag and going like a train.

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I've always been impressed by engineers who create and add modular features to small spaces including boats.  Ingenious some of it.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I've always been impressed by engineers who create and add modular features to small spaces including boats.  Ingenious some of it.

I high end production builders with build repetition and design time to warrant it come up with some imazing solutions.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I've always been impressed by engineers who create and add modular features to small spaces including boats.  Ingenious some of it.

Agree. The scenes planning and building of the trailer here come to mind. I never know if something on the Front Page turns out to be a real gem.

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36 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Nice ...especially with recent events.

 

Oh hand me a hanky please, total melt down, the kids, the love, the wet eyes.... we here can discuss winches, routes, clip on or off, drones and what have you....but these men and women are just humans after all, giving it their best and hanging on. Pom-pons for all!

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Is it possible that the ship hailed for the SAR has arrived on the scene?

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Update to the saddest playlist I ever made (maybe already posted above):

 

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An all out frontal assault on the Pacific's back door.

BRUNEL still charging.

Screen Shot 2018-03-29 at 5.10.27 AM.png

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Looking again at the heavy air, downwind seas state and comparing IMOCA to VOR65 and 70 sail plans.  

The new design will benefit from moving the mast aft as in the IMOCA (see photo).

This might help reduce white water but it makes it a difficult design challenge to accommodate all of the crew, winches and pedestals.

7d0467a283fd69a259996fe1eead1246.jpg

Volvo-65L.jpg

Banque Pop_VIII lines.png

7057f5c9783ae79b616a1e8674ee72de.jpg

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3 minutes ago, SaltyPuppy said:

And for all of you, who rarely or never visit the frontpage:

http://sailinganarchy.com/2018/03/28/extreme-sadness/

extreme sadness

It’s been a seriously tough few days for the 65 sailors and 7 OBR’s ripping through the Southern Ocean right now in the Volvo Ocean Race.

It’s cold, wet and rough (it goes without saying) but unless you have experienced it personally, it’s hard to portray the extra edge that competition gives this already tough environment. As much as we all look forward to getting ‘down south’ there isn’t one person out there who isn’t counting the hours until it’s done.

That said, as tough as it has been for the fleet in general, nothing will compare to the torment that John Fisher’s family will have endured and the sadness and guilt that all his fellow crew members will be dealing with right now.

We have lost a friend, but they have lost a husband, a father and a crewmate.
I have spent much of the last year working alongside John, clocking up thousands of miles together, whilst battling through good and bad times both on and off the water, and he was the most supportive, amiable and steadfast friend and colleague you could wish for. Through thick and thin he propped us all up with his unwavering optimism and professionalism.

Everybody’s personal story around their decision to compete in these events is different but watching him live out his dream took me back twenty-five years to when I did my first race and it saddens me beyond belief, that I won’t be able to shake his hand at the end of it.

This is not the last time I will pay my respects, but for now ‘Fish’, I salute you and all you stood for, thank you for everything you did for us all and know that you will live long in all our memories ……..

These situations are surrounded by emotion and most of it is natural and totally understandable, but it struck me upon reading an article on Sailing Anarchy (extreme anger) that the further removed you are from the situation, the less right you have to express it, especially when it’s not grief or sadness.

Anger is the reserve of his wife, children and close family and the rest of us owe it to them to show our respect and then politely take a back seat. The very last thing I want is a ‘war of words’ but to quote the author I too “have earned the right to have an opinion” and when the time is right and in the right circumstances I will express mine.

There is a huge number of unknowns around this incident, and when the crew complete the, not insignificant, task of getting themselves ashore with their minds still in one piece there will be the appropriate de-briefs and eventually we can all learn what happened and collectively make the process of ocean racing safer.

This process has been going on for decades and, especially in recent years, the progress made in the overall safety of the event is considerable, despite the boats being quicker and more spectacular.

I respect the author for his time at sea, much of which was in way riskier boats than we have now and before the extensive training, equipment and monitoring of the current race but I don’t think it’s right to apportion blame at this early stage especially without more detail.

I strongly disagree that the boats themselves, the designers of those boats, or those that organize the race have avoided responsibility or done anything that puts sailors lives at risk. Aspects can be improved of course, but the implication that the boats are too dangerous is unfounded and the idea that anyone is complicit in John’s death is offensive to a great many of us that trust in those same boats, people and procedures when we put to sea.

None of us are stupid and if the situation was as described we would be negligent in our duties to our families and that is simply not the case.

The sport itself is inherently dangerous, we all acknowledge that, but we do so knowing that the equipment, procedures and, most importantly, our team mates mitigate that risk to an acceptable level and as competitors we all make a conscious decision to leave the dock. I can never quite explain why I do what I do and indeed the last 24 hours have made me think even more about those motives, but I do know that if the risk was somehow completely removed then the attraction would be gone.

There will be some that don’t agree, and they are entitled to their opinions; there will be some that disagree with my view on the safety of these boats and I respect them too, but please let’s not express polarizing views on potential causes in the wake of a man’s death without being in full possession of the facts. I am not trying to push the opposite view or promote debate, and don’t particularly concern myself with the future of the but am keen that we draw proper conclusions based on evidence.

There have been fatalities at sea over the course of this race, and each one is tragic and devastating in equal measure. If you look the VOR / Whitbread race four competitors lost their lives in the earlier races with three in the first race 1973 and one in 1989.

Four more events and fifteen years passed until Hans Horrevoets was sadly lost approaching the UK in 2006 and now we face another tragedy twelve years on. I am not happy with that safety record and one life lost is one too many but until the right people can make the right decisions based on the facts it’s simply pointless to try and suppose what would have saved his life. The implication that it’s getting more dangerous is not supported in evidence.

The deeper question is ‘why’ we choose to compete rather than how. We could have safer boats, safer routes and many other protections but at some point, it simply wouldn’t be worth doing. I don’t for a moment underestimate the significance of this tragedy and it’s truthfully shaken me to my core but it’s important to recognize that no-one is being forced to go out there and we all do it with a deep and well understood acceptance of the risk.

I am not angry, I am deeply saddened, and I feel desperately sorry for his loved ones to whom I offer my sincere condolences

Steve Hayles

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5 minutes ago, stief said:

Thanks NBG. First mention of being caught by the mainsheet. Horrible.

Indeed. At the same time, I’ve been hoping that he was knocked unconscious, just so he didn’t have to suffer. I’m probably not the only one. 

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21 hours ago, Chimp too said:

There was more protection originally but the sailors agree to remove it. Knut really wanted it and the high freeboard and coachroof are all there to give protection. Simple fact is that when going at these speeds boats are wet. If you think that the IMOCA or G Class are safer, particularly if you go anywhere outside of the cockpit then you are very wrong.

The design brief for the VO65 was to give the sailors more protection and the only opposition was from the sailors themselves.

Yes but sailors spend most of their time in the cockpit! In IMOCA, some even slow down when they have to get out of the cockpit in big air.

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23 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Indeed. At the same time, I’ve been hoping that he was knocked unconscious, just so he didn’t have to suffer. I’m probably not the only one. 

So true. Was hoping you would post this in case your link gets overlooked  https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/11370_Update-from-Team-Sun-Hung-Kai-Scallywag.html

Quote
Quote

Newton says he asked the crew to put together a timeline of events to ensure accurate reporting on the incident and it follows here:

  • On Monday, 26 March, SHK/Scallywag was racing in Leg 7 of the Volvo Ocean Race from Auckland, New Zealand to Itajai, Brazil, approximately 1,400 nautical miles west of Cape Horn
  • Weather conditions were 35-45 knots with 4 to 5 metre seas with showers reducing visibility. It was 15 minutes before sunrise
  • The team was sailing with a single reef in the mainsail and the J2 jib. The Fractional 0 (FR0) sail was hoisted but furled
  • At roughly 1300 UTC SHK/Scallywag surfed down a large wave leading to an accidental crash gybe
  • John Fisher was on deck, in the cockpit. At the time, he was moving forward to tidy up the FR0 sheet and had therefore unclipped his tether
  • As the mainsail swung across the boat in the gybe, the mainsheet system caught John and knocked him off the boat. The crew on board believe John was unconscious from the blow before he hit the water
  • He was wearing a survival suit with a wetsuit hood and gloves and a lifejacket
  • The JON buoy and the horseshoe buoy were thrown off the back of the boat to mark the position
  • It took some time to get the boat under control and motor sail back to a position near where the man overboard occurred
  • At 1342 (UTC), the team informed Race Control, by email, that there was a man overboard and they were returning to the MOB position to start a search pattern
  • With input from the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre and Race Control in Alicante, a search and rescue operation was carried out for several hours but there was no sign of John, the horseshoe buoy, or the JON buoy
  • With weather conditions deteriorating, a difficult decision was taken to abandon the search and preserve the safety of the remaining crew

https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/11370_Update-from-Team-Sun-Hung-Kai-Scallywag.html

 

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3 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Yes but sailors spend most of their time in the cockpit! In IMOCA, some even slow down when they have to get out of the cockpit in big air.

Slowing down?  

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Indeed. At the same time, I’ve been hoping that he was knocked unconscious, just so he didn’t have to suffer. I’m probably not the only one. 

You heartbreaker you.

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1 minute ago, stief said:

So true. Was hoping you would post this in case your link gets overlooked (I'll hide it if you have). 

 

No that’s fine, thank you. I only have my (new) iPhone and feel a little disabled in posting. Couldn’t even link the text, had to just paste the link. Also, I’ve had a glass of wine and am about to go out with some sailing buddies, to get some more. Been talking to some insiders about how the team will be met in Chile. They are still quite nervous for the team and their safety, completely understandable. They are NOT safe yet and must be even more exhausted than normal. I’m not at ease yet. 

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3 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

No that’s fine, thank you. I only have my (new) iPhone and feel a little disabled in posting. Couldn’t even link the text, had to just paste the link. Also, I’ve had a glass of wine and am about to go out with some sailing buddies, to get some more. Been talking to some insiders about how the team will be met in Chile. They are still quite nervous for the team and their safety, completely understandable. They are NOT safe yet and must be even more exhausted than normal. I’m not at ease yet. 

All the best to you and those around you. Enjoy what you can. No one ever suggested you were easy ;) 

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1 minute ago, NORBowGirl said:

No that’s fine, thank you. I only have my (new) iPhone and feel a little disabled in posting. Couldn’t even link the text, had to just paste the link. Also, I’ve had a glass of wine and am about to go out with some sailing buddies, to get some more. Been talking to some insiders about how the team will be met in Chile. They are still quite nervous for the team and their safety, completely understandable. They are NOT safe yet and must be even more exhausted than normal. I’m not at ease yet. 

This. I don't know where VOR is sending them - but if they're diverting to north of the Beagle Channel, we're at a time in the year when the wind is blowing hard against the current. The VOR already sends boats from Auckland later than the ideal time, any delay and the conditions can dramatically worsen. It is almost safer to divert to Ushuaia, but very difficult for shoreteam to provide them the much needed support.

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22 minutes ago, stief said:

Thanks NBG. First mention of being caught by the mainsheet. Horrible.

Yes, thanks NBG. if he went over unconscious it is possible he never woke up. I hope he had a peaceful transition and as has been said on this thread many times, what better way to face our inevitable exit than doing what we love best.

RIP John

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Just now, stief said:

All the best to you and those around you. Enjoy what you can. No one ever suggested you were easy ;) 

Hehe, thanks :) 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

This. I don't know where VOR is sending them

We were guessing Peurto Montt.  Seems like the closest most civilized place with accommodations.

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Update from Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag

March 28, 201814:27 UTC

The following story has been issued on behalf of Team Sun Hung Kai / Scallywag

On Monday 26 March, Team Sun Hung Kai / Scallywag lost John Fisher overboard in the Southern Ocean, approximately 1,400 nautical miles west of Cape Horn.

Despite conducting an exhaustive search in gale force conditions, he has not been recovered.

“This is the worst situation you can imagine happening to your team,” said SHK/Scallywag Team Manager Tim Newton, who has spoken with skipper David Witt and navigator Libby Greenhalgh about what happened on Monday.

“We are absolutely heart-broken for John’s family and friends. I know for David, he has lost his best friend. It’s devastating.”

Newton says he asked the crew to put together a timeline of events to ensure accurate reporting on the incident and it follows here:

  • On Monday, 26 March, SHK/Scallywag was racing in Leg 7 of the Volvo Ocean Race from Auckland, New Zealand to Itajai, Brazil, approximately 1,400 nautical miles west of Cape Horn
  • Weather conditions were 35-45 knots with 4 to 5 metre seas with showers reducing visibility. It was 15 minutes before sunrise
  • The team was sailing with a single reef in the mainsail and the J2 jib. The Fractional 0 (FR0) sail was hoisted but furled
  • At roughly 1300 UTC SHK/Scallywag surfed down a large wave leading to an accidental crash gybe
  • John Fisher was on deck, in the cockpit. At the time, he was moving forward to tidy up the FR0 sheet and had therefore unclipped his tether
  • As the mainsail swung across the boat in the gybe, the mainsheet system caught John and knocked him off the boat. The crew on board believe John was unconscious from the blow before he hit the water
  • He was wearing a survival suit with a wetsuit hood and gloves and a lifejacket
  • The JON buoy and the horseshoe buoy were thrown off the back of the boat to mark the position
  • It took some time to get the boat under control and motor sail back to a position near where the man overboard occurred
  • At 1342 (UTC), the team informed Race Control, by email, that there was a man overboard and they were returning to the MOB position to start a search pattern
  • With input from the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre and Race Control in Alicante, a search and rescue operation was carried out for several hours but there was no sign of John, the horseshoe buoy, or the JON buoy
  • With weather conditions deteriorating, a difficult decision was taken to abandon the search and preserve the safety of the remaining crew

Newton says the team is distraught but has a clear focus on getting the crew and boat back to shore.

“This situation isn’t over yet for our team,” Newton said. “The conditions are extremely challenging, with strong winds and a forecast for a building sea state over the next couple of days. Our sole focus, with the assistance of Race Control in Alicante is to get the team into port safely.

“Once we have achieved that, we have time to de-brief more fully and ensure that any lessons that can be learned from what happened to John are incorporated by the rest of the fleet going forward.

“That would be a tremendous legacy for John, who spent so much of his time passing the learnings from his lifetime of experience at sea onto the younger sailors on our team.”

https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/11370_Update-from-Team-Sun-Hung-Kai-Scallywag.html

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

We were guessing Peurto Montt.  Seems like the closest most civilized place with accommodations.


If that's the case - and if the team & sponsors remain committed to rejoin the race in memory of Fish, they'll have to go to Panama & rejoin at Newport. 

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8 minutes ago, southerncross said:

[SHKS:] “Once we have achieved that, we have time to de-brief more fully and ensure that any lessons that can be learned from what happened to John are incorporated by the rest of the fleet going forward.

“That would be a tremendous legacy for John, who spent so much of his time passing the learnings from his lifetime of experience at sea onto the younger sailors on our team.”

A tremendous legacy indeed. I expect this lesson about gybe risks has been passed on to the rest of the fleet now. I'm sure the skippers have  been obsessing and reviewing their maneuvers already

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Someone upthread made the comment that the bird interested in Brunel's drone yesterday wasn't an Albatros.

It wasn't. It is some kind of Petrel or Shearwater but I am not sure what yet.

Might be a Pycroft's Petrel, definitely not an Albatros.

Brunel Petrel.jpg

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1 minute ago, Andalay said:

Someone upthread made the comment that the bird interested in Brunel's drone yesterday wasn't an Albatros.

We figured that out upthread as well. ;)

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My very first post, been a VOR junkie for years, and have minimal sailing experience but 30 years experience flying over the water with the Navy, to include 7 times taking the week-long open ocean survival refreshers. I know what I carried on my person when I flew. I've previously thought long and hard about what I would do if hopping out into the ocean void, so this incident hit really close. Some questions, from ignorance (looked to find the answers first)

- With the rescue equipment on the person who is MOB, do you have smoke? Flares? It'd seem that popping a smoke would help with initial search localization. You see the smoke, you go upwind of it. We carried them on our person when flying.

- Does the MOB person have voice comms with the searchers? In my practice SAR, my ability as a victim to talk the searchers on to me was often critical. Could he see the mast even when they can't see him?

- I am a professional drone operator, and I think getting the drone out there to search could be critical. I wonder/bet they tried it. You can also attach long tethers to them to carry out.

- can these boats even go upwind in those conditions? Seems like as someone said above, in those conditions you are simply operating without a net. Overboard = loss of life

My best to his family. I am absolutely sure the crew of Scallywag took themselves to the limit to try and rescue him.

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48 minutes ago, stief said:

Thanks NBG. First mention of being caught by the mainsheet. Horrible.

 

42 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Class act Mr. Hayles.

So knocked, not washed overboard contrary to the entire foundation of Hancocks accusations. Hope the fucker chokes on that revelation and Hayles piece.

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5 minutes ago, Miffy said:


If that's the case - and if the team & sponsors remain committed to rejoin the race in memory of Fish, they'll have to go to Panama & rejoin at Newport. 

Luckily, Scallywag (or Ragamuffin) has been building a delivery culture for years so that won’t be a problem :) 

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

We figured that out upthread as well. ;)

Sorry, missed it, did you positively ID it? I've spent two hours searching and the best match I can find (other than Pycroft's which is marginal) is a Caribbean species on the Cites red list.

 

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4 minutes ago, nafod said:

My very first post

Good questions and interested to hear about the potential of drones in S&R.  A lot of these questions are answered upthread.  It might get a little busy now with the report having just come out.

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5 minutes ago, nafod said:

My very first post, been a VOR junkie for years, and have minimal sailing experience but 30 years experience flying over the water with the Navy, to include 7 times taking the week-long open ocean survival refreshers. I know what I carried on my person when I flew. I've previously thought long and hard about what I would do if hopping out into the ocean void, so this incident hit really close. Some questions, from ignorance (looked to find the answers first)

- With the rescue equipment on the person who is MOB, do you have smoke? Flares? It'd seem that popping a smoke would help with initial search localization. You see the smoke, you go upwind of it. We carried them on our person when flying.

- Does the MOB person have voice comms with the searchers? In my practice SAR, my ability as a victim to talk the searchers on to me was often critical. Could he see the mast even when they can't see him?

- I am a professional drone operator, and I think getting the drone out there to search could be critical. I wonder/bet they tried it. You can also attach long tethers to them to carry out.

- can these boats even go upwind in those conditions? Seems like as someone said above, in those conditions you are simply operating without a net. Overboard = loss of life

My best to his family. I am absolutely sure the crew of Scallywag took themselves to the limit to try and rescue him.

To answer some: I don’t think smoke is something crew carry on them, it’s for the boat and raft only. Anyhow the MOB in this case was most probably unconscious. That being said, it’s of course something to consider, why not. 

The boats can go upwind but it’s very slow and they have to zig-zag. They can motor directly upwind but that’s also slow and they have to navigate the waves. 

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6 minutes ago, Andalay said:

did you positively ID it

I've been too busy digging up and posting stuff while working, watching the markets and news, making meals, arguing with the ex and working on the boat.  Be my guest.

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5 minutes ago, nafod said:

My very first post, been a VOR junkie for years, and have minimal sailing experience but 30 years experience flying over the water with the Navy, to include 7 times taking the week-long open ocean survival refreshers. I know what I carried on my person when I flew. I've previously thought long and hard about what I would do if hopping out into the ocean void, so this incident hit really close. Some questions, from ignorance (looked to find the answers first)

- With the rescue equipment on the person who is MOB, do you have smoke? Flares? It'd seem that popping a smoke would help with initial search localization. You see the smoke, you go upwind of it. We carried them on our person when flying.

- Does the MOB person have voice comms with the searchers? In my practice SAR, my ability as a victim to talk the searchers on to me was often critical. Could he see the mast even when they can't see him?

- I am a professional drone operator, and I think getting the drone out there to search could be critical. I wonder/bet they tried it. You can also attach long tethers to them to carry out.

- can these boats even go upwind in those conditions? Seems like as someone said above, in those conditions you are simply operating without a net. Overboard = loss of life

My best to his family. I am absolutely sure the crew of Scallywag took themselves to the limit to try and rescue him.

Pretty good for a first post: hope you do better than Andalay. 

Haven't heard of smoke being part of the MOB procedure, but when Groupama lost their mast in 2012, they did release dye. Will be interesting if the idea of some kind of automatic flare could be safely triggered with the Jon buoy, 

And drones, as SC of course pointed out much more quickly and succinctly. :) 

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I've been too busy digging up and posting stuff stuff while working, watching the markets and news, making meals, arguing with the ex and working on the boat.  Be my guest.

LOL. I didn't have time to look up that post where you first corrected the Albi label and pointed out it was likely a petrel . Wife is beaking at me because I 'promised' to work on some home renovations 2 hours ago. #firstworldproblems 

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I've been too busy digging up and posting stuff while working, watching the markets and news, making meals, arguing with the ex and working on the boat.  Be my guest.

Already tried. There are a helluva lot of different seabirds out there and what google doesn't tell you is that their plumage changes seasonally. I've been a birder for half a century. Good fun. I'll keep at it. Better than watching cat videos

 

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4 minutes ago, stief said:

Pretty good for a first post: hope you do better than Andalay. 

Hey, I'm trying to play nice

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2 minutes ago, stief said:

LOL. I didn't have time to look up that post where you first corrected the Albi label and pointed out it was likely a petrel . Wife is beaking at me because I 'promised' to work on some home renovations 2 hours ago. #firstworldproblems 

Did I mention the rabbits?  Fuckers are picky eaters.

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51 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Looking again at the heavy air, downwind seas state and comparing IMOCA to VOR65 and 70 sail plans.  

The new design will benefit from moving the mast aft as in the IMOCA (see photo).

This might help reduce white water but it makes it a difficult design challenge to accommodate all of the crew, winches and pedestals.

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Volvo-65L.jpg

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Maybe I'm mistaken, but quite a difference in hull shape between the V70 and V65, which also looks to have a deeper draft than the V70. Thanks for the comparison

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Did I mention the rabbits?  Fuckers are picky eaters.

No. Thought the bobcats had eaten them by now. But I've been wondering about your mudslides and connectivity too. Is JBC still holed up in his refugee motel too? Can't keep up with the troubles you guys are facing, sorry ;) 

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

...and wearing Musto. Zhik won't be happy.

I love my Zhik gear, its light and its dry, but I wouldn't take it into the Southern Ocean. It just doesn't have the testing needed yet.

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23 minutes ago, Miffy said:


If that's the case - and if the team & sponsors remain committed to rejoin the race in memory of Fish, they'll have to go to Panama & rejoin at Newport. 

Not necessarily, Camper managed to sail round from there, and rejoin in Brazil.  Though I think you maybe right. 

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1 minute ago, stief said:

No. But I've been wondering about your mudslides and connectivity too. Is JBC still holed up in his refugee motel too? Can't keep up with the troubles you guys are facing, sorry ;) 

The storm turned out not that bad.  Ironically, the road never got washed out but was closed because a car crashed into a telegraph pole and knocked it down.

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Did I mention the rabbits?  Fuckers are picky eaters.

Picky to eat..maybe you need to cook them for longer?

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8 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Did I mention the rabbits?  Fuckers are picky eaters.

But they are pretty good eating especially jugged

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I can't eat them.  My daughter would never speak to me again.

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12 minutes ago, stief said:

LOL. I didn't have time to look up that post where you first corrected the Albi label and pointed out it was likely a petrel . Wife is beaking at me because I 'promised' to work on some home renovations 2 hours ago. #firstworldproblems 

Hey man, as the judge said to me, you married her

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I can't eat them.  My daughter would never speak to me again.

Tell her it's chicken and that the bunnies escaped

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34 minutes ago, Miffy said:


If that's the case - and if the team & sponsors remain committed to rejoin the race in memory of Fish, they'll have to go to Panama & rejoin at Newport. 

I wonder if a delivery crew can meet them in Chili and sail the boat to Brazil in time to rejoin that leg? They could motor sail part of the upwind section.

Do we know what physical damage Scally has at present?

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1 minute ago, Andalay said:

Tell her it's chicken and that the bunnies escaped

Sure thing Ms. Forrest.

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