southerncross

VOR Leg 7 Auckland to Itajai

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2 minutes ago, Comsdown said:

sail/motor leaving 5th AM chile time. boat won't make import race.

Thanks.  How do you know that?

Chay, what would be the quickest route?  Will they bypass the Horn and cut through pat Puerto Arenas?

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15 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Gladwell's Line: Time for a rethink

by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com/nz 4 Apr 12:14 AEST4 April 2018

With the issues that have occurred on Leg 7 there must be some re-consideration of starting the Auckland - Brazil leg so late in the season and heading into the Southern Ocean in the autumn, or early winter.

Looking back into Peter Blake's day, the 1981/82 race in which Ceramco New Zealand competed, the fleet left Auckland on Boxing Day for the Southern Ocean and South America.

The next race, the 1985/86 Whitbread RTWR, when Blake skippered Lion NZ, the third leg of the race started on February 15, rounding Cape Horn on March 5, 1985.

The last three races have left Auckland for the Southern Ocean over a month later on March 18. This year Team Brunel rounded the notorious landmark 12 days later - which speaks to the much faster passages made on the haul through the Southern Ocean.

The 2011/12 Volvo Ocean Race fleet also took a hammering. That was the last year of the Volvo 70, and only two of the fleet finished in Itajai, Brazil without having suspended racing or having to nurse damaged boats.

By all accounts, the weather this year was worse than the two previous editions.

The other issue is that the skills of the crews, along with improvements in gear and technology, have increased exponentially and they can now drive the boats harder and faster for sustained periods than before.

The change is underlined by the time from Auckland to the Horn, which in 1985/86 took Lion NZ 18 days. This year Team Brunel sailed the same course in just 12 days over arguably a longer distance - there was no Ice Gate in Blake's day and they sailed down to 58degrees South (and passed within a few metres of icebergs in 150 metres visibility).

It has become reasonably clear now that the crews can take as much or more punishment than the boats. That situation has the design and structure engineers searching for definitive answers as to where the limits really lie.

Add into the equation the fact that the boats are being sailed at consistently high speeds for sustained periods of time, and with the crews assisted by sophisticated weather routing.

But the real issue is when the crews make a mistake, and the boat wipes out - either with a nosedive, a broach or Chinese gybe, or all of the above, then the strain on rigs, and boats in general, is horrendous. It's also action stations/danger time for the crew on deck.

While safety factors can be built in, no-one really knows what the loads are and where the limits lie. All the crews know is that they are either still in one piece after wiping out, or they have sustained a major breakage, and their leg is probably over.

What is not understood by the armchair fans is that the gear can be strained in these sort of episodes, and then inexplicably lets go sometime further down the track.

In many ways, it is fortunate that the timing of the next race is now somewhat in limbo. Clearly, there needs to be a timeout to look at several factors - being the timing of the event; the length of the race which has grown from 27,000nm in Blake's day to 45,000nm in the current course; and the design and engineering on the boats. Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed, just as it was in the America’s Cup after the incidents in 2012/13.

Good sailing!

Richard Gladwell 
NZ Editor 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/203724/Gladwells-Line--Volvo-OR-rethink

As usual, Gladwell is all over the shop here.

So we need a safety review?

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7 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

As usual, Gladwell is all over the shop here.

So we need a safety review?

 

Not necessarily a safety review - but in the course of planning when VOR departs Alicante/Lisbon - wherever the future holds, scheduling stops and events between Cape Town and Auckland, need to have a mind to consider that March is awfully late in the season (no other ocean sailing event crosses Cape Horn that late in the season). Especially with the availability of more data & the trend seems to be suggesting that we are expecting more extreme weather conditions now than we had in the past. The lack of doldrums in the Atlantic last year & persistent strength in the southern ocean this cycle isn't really a isolated freak event. Folks making the annual Atlantic east to west crossing have noticed how trades have settled in far later in the season too.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

While safety factors can be built in, no-one really knows what the loads are and where the limits lie. All the crews know is that they are either still in one piece after wiping out, or they have sustained a major breakage, and their leg is probably over.

. . . .

In many ways, it is fortunate that the timing of the next race is now somewhat in limbo. Clearly, there needs to be a timeout to look at several factors - being the timing of the event; the length of the race which has grown from 27,000nm in Blake's day to 45,000nm in the current course; and the design and engineering on the boats. Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed, 

 Thought this a useful summary of the forum points already made.  . . .

1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

As usual, Gladwell is all over the shop here.

So we need a safety review?

???  don't quite understand "all over the shop" (I've found Gladwell articles hold up better than Sailing Illustrated, for example).

Yeah, that "Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed"  is easily filtered.  The perspective on timing and length this time is useful, though he ducked the impact of China on the routing and timing.

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38 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 9.47.49 AM.png

I wonder what she means by “through no fault of our own”. That the spreaders / rig were faultily manufactured or of different quality than those on the other boats?  (BTW, routing for Dee to at least beat MAPFRE)

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5 minutes ago, Miffy said:

we are expecting more extreme weather conditions now than we had in the past.

Fiji Bitter can attest to this.

Fiji PM warns of 'frightening new era' as he blames deadly cyclone on climate change

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/03/fiji-pm-warns-frightening-new-era-blames-deadly-cyclone-climate/

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

 Thought this a useful summary of the forum points already made.  . . .

???  don't quite understand "all over the shop" (I've found Gladwell articles hold up better than Sailing Illustrated, for example).

Yeah, that "Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed"  is easily filtered.  The perspective on timing and length this time is useful, though he ducked the impact of China on the routing and timing.

The thing is, the weather wasn't particularly brutal during this SO leg, was it? Sure there were two good blows and the sea state was pretty big at times. But certainly, by all the accounts I've read, not legendary brutal with massive towering seas and greybeards. What has changed dramatically is the design and speed of the boats.

Are they going TOO fast?

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

The thing is, the weather wasn't particularly brutal during this SO leg, was it? Sure there were two good blows and the sea state was pretty big at times. But certainly, by all the accounts I've read, not legendary brutal with massive towering seas and greybeards. What has changed dramatically is the design and speed of the boats.

I'm glad you brought that up and I was going to ask Stief about this.  

But I seem to remember back in the day of the earlier BOC and Around Alone, accounts of 10, 15, 20 meter seas and 60 - 80 knot gales, of rogue waves and boats diving down massive waves and pitchpoling!  Exaggeration?  Foggy memory?  Round in Winter?  I'll have to dig through my library when I have time.

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16 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

I wonder what she means by “through no fault of our own”. That the spreaders / rig were faultily manufactured or of different quality than those on the other boats?  (BTW, routing for Dee to at least beat MAPFRE)

The impression I got was that one of the two threaded spreader attachments had somehow unscrewed itself. Certainly possible with cyclic loads of just the wrong geometry. There is no way the crew could have known this was happening or that any part of how they were sailing the boat could be said to have led to the problem. Whether it was due to a mistake made in refitting the spreader during maintenance, or down to manufacturing tolerances, or indeed inexplicable in root cause, the crew can rightfully feel they were somewhat robbed.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

The thing is, the weather wasn't particularly brutal during this SO leg, was it? Sure there were two good blows and the sea state was pretty big at times. But certainly, by all the accounts I've read, not legendary brutal with massive towering seas and greybeards. What has changed dramatically is the design and speed of the boats.

Are they going TOO fast?

Ah, got it. I was worried that Gladwell had little credibility down there.

Agree that past accounts (recalling Shackleton's) were much worse, even allowing for the fish that got away gets longer every year. So yes, I think the weather was more than last (recall almost a drifter at point nemo). 2012 was tougher than the boats, as Gladwell got.

Still,  his point that tougher boats might mean the crews become the weaker link is good, and Jack's pillow pic above anticipated that line of thinking. 

So, looking at how the limits are evolving made sense, and obviously, organizers will always try to review and plan for safety.

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4 hours ago, boomer said:

 

Boomer--

In many of your posts all I see is a horizontal black line. This is also starting to occur in other posts where some kind of media is included.

Does anyone else suffer the same phenomena? Any idaes as to the cause?

Using a Mac with Firefox.

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

The thing is, the weather wasn't particularly brutal during this SO leg, was it? Sure there were two good blows and the sea state was pretty big at times. But certainly, by all the accounts I've read, not legendary brutal with massive towering seas and greybeards. What has changed dramatically is the design and speed of the boats.

Are they going TOO fast?


They used to go further south - now the exclusion zones that many criticize and lament - keeps them away. 

The difference I think compared to prior editions - like the VG or other record attempts, you leave earlier in the season - time it right and follow a low pressure system and hang on as long as you can, hitch the next one and maintain good speed.

This time around, despite the exclusion, they basically went non-stop from Auckland to Cape Horn without chasing a system. The strength and frequency + colder conditions in March vs. January definitely changes the game. I don't think it is merely about speed - the record chasing boats leave when the southern ocean conditions are at the most favorable for the Capes.

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2 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Boomer--

In many of your posts all I see is a horizontal black line. This is also starting to occur in other posts where some kind of media is included.

Does anyone else suffer the same phenomena? Any idaes as to the cause?

Using a Mac with Firefox.

Yes--happens while the page is loading on a slower connection. E.g, saw a black line in your post for a moment, then it filled in. "Like "buffering", but without the error message.

especially bad on slow and dodgy wifi.

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While we're waiting and talking about the human as the weak link (or is he rolling a joint?)...

Photos by James Blake:
5ac51215a62f0_JamesBlake13_07_180403_AZN_JSB_0620.thumb.jpg.b8b49236b793a35daf26694753788d06.jpg

5ac5121293dde_JamesBlake13_07_180404_AZN_JSB_0585.thumb.jpg.9ce743e4aa48215515663bef263594e6.jpg

by Sam Greenfield
5ac5121aa9cf0_SamGreenfield13_07_180403_TTT_SGR_0226.thumb.jpg.5981b8abd0b6f6124e79b0f5f89a2633.jpg

and Ugo Fonolla
5ac5121829d1d_UgoFonolla13_07_180402_MPF_UGF_00092.thumb.jpg.1e974cff1bd0e116735682d6da33b347.jpg

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4 minutes ago, stief said:

Yes--happens while the page is loading on a slower connection. E.g, saw a black line in your post for a moment, then it filled in. "Like "buffering", but without the error message.

especially bad on slow and dodgy wifi.

Our connection speed is robust so that doesn't seem to be the problem. Videos stream without buffering at 1020. The black line just stays there...taunting me.

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5 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Our connection speed is robust so that doesn't seem to be the problem. Videos stream without buffering at 1020. The black line just stays there...taunting me.

Hmm. To narrow down the cause, I switch browsers when that happens, or commandeer the wife's machines. If really desperate, I create a new temporary users account, (which rules out whether it's a problem in my home folder).

Sorry Renny--will get back on track. Good pics. Joint, huh. Hope Liz isn't sniffing glue..

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14 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

the crew can rightfully feel they were somewhat robbed.

I agree with most of your post but breakages and mishaps are par for the course, no?  Brunel had their share of mishaps as well.

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

Hmm. To narrow down the cause, I switch browsers when that happens, or commandeer the wife's machines. If really desperate, I create a new temporary users account, (which rules out whether it's a problem in my home folder).

Sorry Renny--will get back on track. Good pics. Joint, huh. Hope Liz isn't sniffing glue..

Why "sorry"? I am not the forum police, and enjoy almost every thread drift - especially if it helps someone.
Boooooooring... waiting for Akzo to finish... will they ever arrive?

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10 minutes ago, stief said:

Hmm. To narrow down the cause, I switch browsers when that happens, or commandeer the wife's machines. If really desperate, I create a new temporary users account, (which rules out whether it's a problem in my home folder).

Sorry Renny--will get back on track. Good pics. Joint, huh. Hmmm.

Well they show up on Safari... Thanks!

I'll try fiddling with various setting to see what's what.

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

There might be something in that who knows. They were the most southern boat so sea state would have been worse and the one closest north to them, Akzo gybed north around that time.

Not sure how much this played a role, but having a major refit, following a massive collision, in record time, might have introduced some engineering issues that showed up later??

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3 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Why "sorry"? I am not the forum police, and enjoy almost every thread drift - especially if it helps someone.
Boooooooring... waiting for Akzo to finish... will they ever arrive?

Got it, and agreed. Martine arrival should be good to watch ;) 

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Have you updated your flash

12 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Our connection speed is robust so that doesn't seem to be the problem. Videos stream without buffering at 1020. The black line just stays there...taunting me.

I have had the same problem on Chrome, but no problems on Firefox, with the exception of one sport website, in which case the videos perform flawlessly in Chrome. Try clearing your cookies, I have my Firefox set to clear cookies when I close the browser. Adblocker, cookie blocking or noscript will block things that are needed for video viewing from a site. Perhaps check in the Firefox support forums.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

(Dee's comments from 4373)

I like Dee and the TToP team, and I'd love to see them continue to improve and get a podium spot in a future leg.

And I can understand her frustration with the spreader failure.

But...

They were in 6th at Cape Horn, 30 miles behind third place (Dong) and notably further behind Vestas and Brunel.  They moved up two spots because of the mast issues on Mapfre and Vestas, which are unlikely to be any more the fault of the crew than TToP's spreader issues.  I realize she said they were "set to be battling for a podium position"...  she didn't say the podium position was lost through bad luck beyond their control, but rather the opportunity to battle for it was lost.  So...  Ok, fair comment...  But on the other hand, their perseverance to resolve the matter satisfactorily while continuing progress toward the finish allowed them to pass Vestas and Mapfre who were unable to do so.  Yes, they could have been battling with Akzo for a position if not for the spreader issue, but if you're going to play that game, you have to put Mapfre and Vestas back in it and acknowledge the position they'd be battling for was more likely to be 5th than 3rd.

Not trying to disparage Dee.  Mostly I'm just hoping she'll come to see it that way once they finish and get some rest and she has more information about what the other boats dealt with, etc, such that in the end, she'll be happy about the 4th and ready to push for better in the next leg.  4th is their best finish yet.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding her point.  After some more thought, I'm thinking maybe her point is that they're in it for the positional battles and she'd rather be in a battle to the finish for 5th vs 6th than locked into 4th.  I can understand that.  Competitive spirit.

In the meantime...  I just hope Mapfre doesn't sneak up to them in a driftathon finish.  Seems uncomfortably possible.

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1 minute ago, boomer said:

Have you updated your flash

I have had the same problem on Chrome, but no problems on Firefox, with the exception of one sport website, in which case the videos perform flawlessly in Chrome. Try clearing your cookies, I have my Firefox set to clear cookies when I close the browser. Adblocker, cookie blocking or noscript will block things that are needed for video viewing from a site. Perhaps check in the Firefox support forums.

I'll try all of the above. I suspect it's something to do with AdBlocker and/or NoScript.

Continuing to fiddle about....

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3 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

hey could have been battling with Akzo for a position

Not to mention the issues Akzo had to deal with.

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1 minute ago, burble said:

Any news on Vestas and their next steps?

Upthread.

 

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm  foiler fan however after looking at the SO drone footage we have seen this edition for the first time in sporty conditions, in particular one of Brunel plowing into the bottom/back of a wave and wiping off 20k in a millisecond and a regular norm, I'm starting to have my doubts. 

A crewed boat will push a lot harder and for longer than the SH VG foiling guys. I'm not sure anymore these things will cut the mustard "as is" and maybe what Bruno is inferring to and behind their design/build suspension?

unnamed (21).jpg

15228422609881564090168.jpg

The last Vendee Globe is an example of what can go wrong with a foiling boat in a VOR e.g. Alex Thompson. 

2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:


 

Talking about degrading forums, here's my thread drift of the day (if you have lots of tiiiimmmeeee...):

 

Thanks for the sloth update, Rennmaus; another visual to keep me amused for another day. As long as we are drifting, I updated my knowledge of sloths. I mentioned previously I had only seen them in trees prior to Stief's sloth gif.

I did know they slept up to 20 hours per day and came down weekly to take a dump, which downward trip took many hours. I saw that trip (but not the dump) in action, so to speak, very slow action.

What I did not know is that sloths are very fast and good swimmers and can hold their breath underwater for up to 40 minutes.

And that they are able to hang upside down, which they do most of the time, sleeping, because their internal organs are fixed in place.

Stief's original sloth pic reminded me of when I was in Myanmar/Burma a few years ago, riding with a couple of citizens - a guide and a driver- who in my presence were candid and cynical about the general state of affairs in the country. The car as were most of them was around 30 years old. The roads were terrible. The people indescribably poor.  I asked the guide what were some of the stupidest things tourists had asked her. She looked at the driver, translated what I said, and they both broke into laughter. She said she was asked, when while they were driving a chicken crossed the road in front of the car: "Why did the chicken cross the road?" and said she was thinking to herself, "how the hell do I know?" but responded "to get to the other side" which to her was logical. She also knew it was an internationally known joke. 

43 minutes ago, stief said:

 

...Jack's pillow pic 

 

Ha! I thought those were sand bags in the pic, because of the flooding problems Azko is having due to the separation around the keel.

 

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37 minutes ago, familysailor said:

I'll try all of the above. I suspect it's something to do with AdBlocker and/or NoScript.

Continuing to fiddle about....

My adblocker has been giving this site fits, making it slow to load initially, then occasionally having hiccups. Thinking about going back to the original adblocker that I used forever. Only changed to this adblocker(Ultimate) because it was supposed to be better.  I like high speed and an instant result when I click on something, not having to wait for a couple of seconds or longer.

Also of note this latest version of SA or whatever server they're using, absolutely sucks, as did two or three versions before that - and had a lot to do with why I got off SA for quite a while. It's only been the VOR that caused me to return to SA, because no place delivers the latest skinny on the VOR like this forum. Other then taking pics and doing a few videos for Bob, haven't been on this site, since the R2AK and the previous VOR. 

Also after I retired, spending to much time here, when I should be out sailing or find some back roads to go cruise on. Then I got tired of sailing all the time, so now all I do is race other then an occasional cruise. Speaking of cruising, preparing for another sail up the inside this summer, taking an old service buddy who just retired. It's a rainy day today, so probably should go down and work on the boats - though I bet I could find some sunshine if I drove up to Port Townsend.

We've been spoiled by close finishes in this race - waiting for the van to make their way in, it felt a wee bit anticlimactic this morning compared to yesterday.

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desp: please: cred https://twitter.com/Martin_P for the sloth, and RaceBlog for posting it.

(and am still laughing over how well the Laurel and Hardy vid fits. Thanks, Renee for the find)

For for sloth info, this is my favourite, from the opening of Jann Martel's Life of Pi. 

(I find it really funny--parody of academic boondoggles and writing, poking fun at religion, and serious about how to handle suffering). 

Quote

My zoology thesis was a functional analysis of the thyroid gland of the three-toed sloth. I chose the sloth because its demeanour—calm, quiet and introspective—did something to soothe my shattered self.

There are two-toed sloths and there are three-toed sloths, the case being determined by the forepaws of the animals, since all sloths have three claws on their hind paws. I had the great luck one summer of studying the three-toed sloth in situ in the equatorial jungles of Brazil. It is a highly intriguing creature. Its only real habit is indolence. It sleeps or rests on average twenty hours a day. Our team tested the sleep habits of five wild three-toed sloths by placing on their heads, in the early evening after they had fallen asleep, bright red plastic dishes filled with water. We found them still in place late the next morning, the water of the dishes swarming with insects. The sloth is at its busiest at sunset, using the word busy here in the most relaxed sense. It moves along the bough of a tree in its characteristic upside-down position at the speed of roughly 400 metres an hour. On the ground, it crawls to its next tree at the rate of 250 metres an hour, when motivated, which is 440 times slower than a motivated cheetah. Unmotivated, it covers four to five metres in an hour.

The three-toed sloth is not well informed about the outside world. On a scale of 2 to 10, where 2 represents unusual dullness and 10 extreme acuity, Beebe (1926) gave the sloths senses of taste, touch, sight and hearing a rating of 2, and its sense of smell a rating of 3. If you come upon a sleeping three-toed sloth in the wild, two or three nudges should suffice to awaken it; it will then look sleepily in every direction but yours. Why it should look about is uncertain since the sloth sees everything in a Magoo-like blur. As for hearing, the sloth is not so much deaf as uninterested in sound. Beebe reported that firing guns next to sleeping or feeding sloths elicited little reaction. And the sloth's slightly better sense of smell should not be overestimated. They are said to be able to sniff and avoid decayed branches, but Bullock (1968) reported that sloths fall to the ground clinging to decayed branches "often".

How does it survive, you might ask.

Precisely by being so slow. Sleepiness and slothfulness keep it out of harm's way, away from the notice of jaguars, ocelots, harpy eagles and anacondas. A sloth's hairs shelter an algae that is brown during the dry season and green during the wet season, so the animal blends in with the surrounding moss and foliage and looks like a nest of white ants or of squirrels, or like nothing at all but part of a tree.

The three-toed sloth lives a peaceful, vegetarian life in perfect harmony with its environment. "A good-natured smile is forever on its lips," reported Tirler (1966). I have seen that smile with my own eyes. I am not one given to projecting human traits and emotions onto animals, but many a time during that month in Brazil, looking up at sloths in repose, I felt I was in the presence of upside-down yogis deep in meditation or hermits deep in prayer, wise beings whose intense imaginative lives were beyond the reach of my scientific probing.

Sometimes I got my majors mixed up. A number of my fellow religious-studies students—muddled agnostics who didn't know which way was up, who were in the thrall of reason, that fool's gold for the bright—reminded me of the three-toed sloth; and the three-toed sloth, such a beautiful example of the miracle of life, reminded me of God.

 

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2 minutes ago, boomer said:

My adblocker has been giving this site fits, making it slow to load initially, then occasionally having hiccups. Thinking about going back to the original adblocker that I used forever. Only changed to this adblocker(Ultimate) because it was supposed to be better.  I like high speed and an instant result when I click on something, not having to wait for a couple of seconds or longer. It's only been the VOR that caused me to return to SA, because no place delivers the latest skinny on the VOR like this forum. Other then taking pics and doing a few videos for Bob, haven't been on this site, since the R2AK and the previous VOR.

Also of note this latest version of SA or whatever server they're using, absolutely sucks, as did two or three versions before that - and had a lot to do with why I got off SA for quite a while. It's only been the VOR that caused me to return to SA, because no place delivers the latest skinny on the VOR like this forum. Other then taking pics and doing a few videos for Bob, haven't been on this site, since the R2AK and the previous VOR. 

Also after I retired, spending to much time here, when I should be out sailing or find some back roads to go cruise on. Then I got tired of sailing all the time, so now all I do is race other then an occasional cruise. Speaking of cruising, preparing for another sail up the inside this summer, taking an old service buddy who just retired. It's a rainy day today, so probably should go down and work on the boats - though I bet I could find some sunshine if I drove up to Port Townsend.

We've been spoiled by close finishes in this race - waiting for the van to make their way in, it felt a wee bit anticlimactic this morning compared to yesterday.

Thanks for the update. I did notice you've been on Facebook more than here. I recently purged my Facebook "friends" I'm down to 14 all of whom I've actually met and interacted with in person, strange as that may be...

You and JP are the only people I have never met in person. Looking forward to an opportunity to do so in the future. 

Thread drift over.

 Back to the regular (?) program...

 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Advice was mainly to allay stief's missus about Itajai. I actually prefer Bahia and states north. 

 

 

That’s exactly where I was. 

I didn’t really have an issue, though it was a while ago. But I can understand the reticence for some. 

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Scally will most likely use the Magellan Straight, no?  I wonder if there is an inland water way to the entrance to avoid too much open ocean so close to a lee shore.  

straitofmagellan.png?w=700

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SC--wanted to check if the freeSquid routing might try an inland route. No luck: Great Circle site is unavailable while upgrading.

Anyway, sad averages in the latest sked for MAPF; more comic relief for Dee and crew. 

Team At position Instantaneous Average since last report
DTF DTL Gain/Loss 24h run Waypoint COG SOG VMG COG SOG VMG
Team AkzoNobel 84.8 nm 0.0 nm 0.0 nm 159.8 nm Das Cabecudas 23° 10.1 kts 5.2 kts 22° 9.9 kts 5.2 kts
Turn The Tide on Plastic 480.2 nm 395.4 nm 0.1 nm 196.4 nm Dos Ingleses 11° 11.0 kts 10.9 kts 10° 11.2 kts 11.1 kts
MAPFRE 678.4 nm 593.5 nm 0.0 nm 92.9 nm Dos Ingleses 48° 5.8 kts 4.8 kts 49° 5.9 kts 4.8 kts

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34 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Thanks for the update. I did notice you've been on Facebook more than here. I recently purged my Facebook "friends" I'm down to 14 all of whom I've actually met and interacted with in person, strange as that may be...

You and JP are the only people I have never met in person. Looking forward to an opportunity to do so in the future. 

Thread drift over.

 Back to the regular (?) program...

 

Yes I'm on FB during my first cup of coffee, and again a few times through the morning - if the right topic presents itself - and again late night before retiring. If that wretched, whining, angry failure of a leader Donnie Boy has done something particularly stupid, egregious or wrong - or the GOP does the same, I usually weight in. Other then that checking out what my children, relatives and few friends are up to.

I also purged my FB "friends" a few times in the last year or so. Primarily those who are willfully ignorant or anti - as in anti-immigrant, anti-minority, anti-poor, anti-women, anti-children, anti-gay, anti-education, anti-science, anti-technology, anti-environment, anti-fiscal solvency, anti-union, anti-free market, and anti-critical thinking'.

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^^^
Blast from the past: In 2012, Abu Dhabi was shipped from Puerto Montt to Itajaí, whereas Camper rounded Cape Horn and was ranked 4th.

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27 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Scally will most likely use the Magellan Straight, no?  I wonder if there is an inland water way to the entrance to avoid too much open ocean so close to a lee shore.  

straitofmagellan.png?w=700

If you can’t round the horn, that’s still got to be high on anyone’s bucket list. I’d be there in a heartbeat for that trip. 

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RAFAL ZIOBRO FROM POLAND CONQUERS THE STRAITS OF MAGELLAN

pc3felipe-pc3a9rez1.jpg

Swimmer from Krakow Poland just finished the swim accross the Straits of Magellan, Chile. The waters in this extreme part of the world were 4.5 deg C.(40.5 F.) His time was 1hr.19 min, covering the distance of 3.4 miles.  

https://waterworldswim.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/rafal-ziobro-from-poland-conquers-the-straits-of-magellan/

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26 minutes ago, boomer said:

Yes I'm on FB during my first cup of coffee, and again a few times through the morning - if the right topic presents itself - and again late night before retiring. If that wretched, whining, angry failure of a leader Donnie Boy has done something particularly stupid, egregious or wrong - or the GOP does the same, I usually weight in. Other then that checking out what my children, relatives and few friends are up to.

I also purged my FB "friends" a few times in the last year or so. Primarily those who are willfully ignorant or anti - as in anti-immigrant, anti-minority, anti-poor, anti-women, anti-children, anti-gay, anti-education, anti-science, anti-technology, anti-environment, anti-fiscal solvency, anti-union, anti-free market, and anti-critical thinking'.

Brexit has caused an almost identical fallout for many in the UK, split friends and families apart, literally!!

I’ve learnt to keep my mouth shut at family occasions. 

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29 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

^^^
Blast from the past: In 2012, Abu Dhabi was shipped from Puerto Montt to Itajaí, whereas Camper rounded Cape Horn and was ranked 4th.

You either googled that, or just showing off! :lol:

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13 minutes ago, southerncross said:

The waters in this extreme part of the world were 4.5 deg C.(40.5 F.)

Image result for brrr cold gif

As cold as a shrimp. How do penguins do it?

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

split friends and families apart, literally

It's like the world has turned into one big Sailing Anarchy Thread!

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46 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Scally will most likely use the Magellan Straight, no?  I wonder if there is an inland water way to the entrance to avoid too much open ocean so close to a lee shore.  

straitofmagellan.png?w=700

Sure there is. 1000s of miles of variations. Basically it would be south from PTO Montt inside Isla Chiloe, out and across Gulfo de Penas, back inside all the way down. Beautiful trip. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

You either googled that, or just showing off! :lol:

Bit of both :D
I was a Camper fan, so I could remember the Puerto Montt episode very well. I also knew that Abu was in PM, but I must admit that I had to look up how the black boat left.

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5 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Sure there is. 1000s of miles of variations. Basically it would be south from PTO Montt inside Isla Chiloe, out and across Gulfo de Penas, back inside all the way down. Beautiful trip. 

How do I find a boat for a passage through? Serious question. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

How do I find a boat for a passage through? Serious question. 

2394402821_25907f8b4c_z.jpg?zz=1

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

How do I find a boat for a passage through? Serious question. 

Find a rich owner, then get paid for the trip.

Slightly more serious answer than SC  :)

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4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Been "born" on SAAC, and anticipated to get beaten to death here in the VOR forum for it. Hasn't happened, and I'm generally very happy about the more civilized, although cheeky tone hereabouts. Thanks for that!!! :wub:

I've made some good friends over there, and most of them cut down on posting, very much like me. The AC forum has degraded immensely, and there's no end in sight.

Hoggie did not deserve the spanking. I think, he was really miffed that VOR was silent about the most important incident of this leg (who are we to criticize him while we also do not let any opportunity pass to criticize VOR media?), and he maybe has not listened closely enough until the end of the "Live". We're all human, right? Hoggie is a good one.
 

Talking about degrading forums, here's my thread drift of the day (if you have lots of tiiiimmmeeee...):

Watched the AC forum self destruct and just walked away a long time ago, and just learnt not to get involved. 

It was a lesson in watching what trolls can do to wreck a discussion..... don’t really want to see VO threads go the same way. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

How do I find a boat for a passage through? Serious question. 

Here is one I did earlier. 

And a link to an article that my missus wrote about our cruise there http://www.bwi.org/bwicontest/files/2830-54daysofrain.pdf I used to work the charter boats so have done the southern part many times. 

There are a few ships that do cruised Puerto Montt to Puerto Williams or Ushuaia including a look at and if you are lucky at visit to the Horn and lighthouse. https://www.australis.com/site/en/

Otherwise there are various yachts but the Chileans have clamped down on a lot of the foreign operators lately so I don't know who is still running. 

 

inside passage.png

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

2394402821_25907f8b4c_z.jpg?zz=1

Thanks. :lol:

Anymore details, what ship, country etc?

 

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15 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Find a rich owner, then get paid for the trip.

Slightly more serious answer than SC  :)

That’s definitely an option a few years back, not really in the position to sign up for a crew contract just to do the passage unless it’s short term.  Buts it’s appealing all of a sudden. 

Must be a list a mile long for people wanting to sign up to that trip. 

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5 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Here is one I did earlier. 

And a link to an article that my missus wrote about our cruise there http://www.bwi.org/bwicontest/files/2830-54daysofrain.pdf I used to work the charter boats so have done the southern part many times. 

Sweet

( I used the https://www.soundingsonline.com/features/54-days-of-rain-a-cruise-through-southern-chile web version to read that.)

Nice writer, and the cooking pot chimney repair was fun to read. Always something.

These accounts make the race so much more real and interesting--thanks again 

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

Brexit has caused an almost identical fallout for many in the UK, split friends and families apart, literally!!

I’ve learnt to keep my mouth shut at family occasions. 

I purged "friends" mostly acquaintances from my old work and some old acquaintances from my childhood who are particularly extreme right wing - not like minded friends I hang with or old service buds, who for the most part are like minded.  When Reagan was decimating the middle class, the US getting involved in Afganistan and Iraq, I spoke up. However with many, particularly at work, I kept my yap shut, too - only discussing it with a few close friends and one of my brothers. I was surprised at work with the closet racists, who only "came out", because of their hatred for Obama. I thought we moved beyond that decades ago.

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11 minutes ago, mad said:

Thanks. :lol:

Anymore details, what ship, country etc?

 

According to our all knowledgeable administration, it's either from Wakanda or that nation in Southern Africa, Nambia.

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Chay,  I see you have to stick you nose out for a little while to get around this 

Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 1.48.09 PM.png

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5 minutes ago, mdeh said:

According to our all knowledgeable administration, it's either from Wakanda or that nation in Southern Africa, Nambia.

That "shithole" nation, I believe is the correct description.  

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

That "shithole" nation, I believe is the correct description.  

Sadly, this is true. 

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7 minutes ago, boomer said:

I purged "friends" mostly acquaintances from my old work and some old acquaintances from my childhood who are particularly extreme right wing - not like minded friends I hang with or old service buds, who for the most part are like minded.  When Reagan was decimating the middle class, the US getting involved in Afganistan and Iraq, I spoke up. However with many, particularly at work, I kept my yap shut, too - only discussing it with a few close friends and one of my brothers. I was surprised at work with the closet racists, who only "came out", because of their hatred for Obama. I thought we moved beyond that decades ago.

Again, identical. 

A disturbing amount of family, and friends I’d known for 10 years plus suddenly came out as extremely right wing. A couple of them are starting to spout Trump praise and seem to be consuming his defence story lately. 

 

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For Vestas, will be an interesting tradeoff of sailing outside vs motorsailing inside and fuel capacity.  Are they doing the 1000 liter center tank mod also?

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10 minutes ago, mdeh said:

According to our all knowledgeable administration, it's either from Wakanda or that nation in Southern Africa, Nambia.

:lol:

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Just now, mad said:

suddenly came out as extremely right wing.

They've been muttering displeasures to themselves the whole time, upset about reverse colonialism.  Now there is a sense of retaking.  My PA contribution over.

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Per southerncross' suggestion for Scallywag/Vestas delvery updates to be in this thread, here is a crosspost from Leg 8: FWIW, Scallywag's AIS is working and they can be found on MarineTraffic, moored in Puerto Montt, right beside a very capable-looking S/V Anne Margaretha. The Anne Margaretha is of Dutch registry, so perhaps Annemieke Bess is enjoying some conversation with them.

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Hey Chay, 35ft is the cruising sweet spot but how does it feel down there.  Would you go bigger?

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5 minutes ago, southerncross said:

They've been muttering displeasures to themselves the whole time, upset about reverse colonialism.  Now there is a sense of retaking.  My PA contribution over.

Mine too. 

Apologies for the thread drift. 

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Isn't it wonderful with the world so divided that we here on the VOR thread can rise above it all and get along?  

73aO.gif

 

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21 minutes ago, southerncross said:

http://www.pelagic.co.uk

Must be others.

I run the maintenance on the Pelagics. I'll be off to meet PA in Cape Town in June.

I don't think they are taking Chilean channels bookings at the moment though but that may change for next season.

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27 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Chay,  I see you have to stick you nose out for a little while to get around this 

Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 1.48.09 PM.png

Yep. And it's a bastard. Not called the gulf of sorrows for nothing.

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9 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Isn't it wonderful with the world so divided that we here on the VOR thread can rise above it all and get along?  

73aO.gif

 

It’s a rather strange mix of people:lol:

But it does give you a little bit of faith in humanity. 

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12 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Hey Chay, 35ft is the cruising sweet spot but how does it feel down there.  Would you go bigger?

Yea I'd go bigger always but 35 remains affordable if slower.

Often in Chile there are days of waiting or just going out and motoring and for that longer waterline length and big motor are nice.

35 feet is easy to handle alone or as a couple for mooring etc., Economical on fuel. We carry 400L in a keel tank and 50 L in a day tank. For the trip up the channels we carried about 160L on deck too. Engine is Beta 28 that burns under 2L hour in easy conditions.

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56 minutes ago, mad said:

That’s definitely an option a few years back, not really in the position to sign up for a crew contract just to do the passage unless it’s short term.  Buts it’s appealing all of a sudden. 

Must be a list a mile long for people wanting to sign up to that trip. 

Mad, the S/V Anne Margaretha might be the ride for you. And it is parked beside Scallywag right now. Hop on a plane, get two birds with one rock: make friends with Witty and get a tour down the passage.

https://annemargaretha.com/

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Just now, mad said:

It’s a rather strange mix of people:lol:

But it does give you a little bit of faith in humanity. 

My swimming group is the same.  Professionals from all over the world.  Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Japan, Jamaica including math professors, a screenwriter, popular singer, a few corporate and Wall Street types.  Eclectic like the VOR.

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17 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Hey Chay, 35ft is the cruising sweet spot but how does it feel down there.  Would you go bigger?


I met a young Swedish couple in Hawaii who crossed the Atlantic to Brasil - spent a season in Uruguay then sailed south via Magellan and then north to Chile. The boat was no bigger than 28ft and they had decomissioned their diesel and were using an outboard :lol: They were planning to head towards Indonesia - probably going to transit thru Bali the last I heard.

 

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8 minutes ago, Miffy said:


I met a young Swedish couple in Hawaii who crossed the Atlantic to Brasil - spent a season in Uruguay then sailed south via Magellan and then north to Chile. The boat was no bigger than 28ft and they had decomissioned their diesel and were using an outboard :lol: They were planning to head towards Indonesia - probably going to transit thru Bali the last I heard.

 

http://www.intothewind.fr

An even smaller boat. Friends of ours but I like my heater and my engine among other comforts.... Heck I'm even going to add a roller furler up front! Getting old

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4 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Curious to see if Scally has drive problems like V 11.  Maybe they took a spare.

Now that would be a huge PR fuckup for Volvo!

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6 minutes ago, littlechay said:

http://www.intothewind.fr

An even smaller boat. Friends of ours but I like my heater and my engine among other comforts.... Heck I'm even going to add a roller furler up front! Getting old

Did anyone you know ever hear of Frank Guernsey?

http://archive.easyreadernews.com/archives/issuelist.php?ActualDate=2003-10-16

or come across a family cruising down there in a Finot Class 40?

http://anasaziracing.blogspot.com/

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24 minutes ago, mad said:

Now that would be a huge PR fuckup for Volvo!

In the last few days, I have been pondering about this.. must mean I have too much time on my hands.  :D

Volvo, are renown for safety... or that is certainly the persona they try and project. And.. not unsuccessfully, I would have to say. So here is my somewhat serious question.

In view of this really tough leg , with both loss of life and equipment issues, added to the loss of life on a previous leg, is there some "bean counter" at Volvo saying ... "This is really not good for our image".  Could  they contemplate a time-out in Itajai, using a reason of improving safety?

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7 minutes ago, mdeh said:

In the last few days, I have been pondering about this.. must mean I have too much time on my hands.  :D

Volvo, are renown for safety... or that is certainly the persona they try and project. And.. not unsuccessfully, I would have to say. So here is my somewhat serious question.

In view of this really tough leg , with both loss of life and equipment issues, added to the loss of life on a previous leg, is there some "bean counter" at Volvo saying ... "This is really not good for our image".  Could  they contemplate a time-out in Itajai, using a reason of improving safety?

No way, too many commitments to the other stop overs etc. And they’d need to compensate the teams etc to keep the crews on a retainer.

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8 minutes ago, mad said:

No way, too many commitments to the other stop overs etc. And they’d need to compensate the teams etc to keep the crews on a retainer.

 

17 minutes ago, mdeh said:

In the last few days, I have been pondering about this.. must mean I have too much time on my hands.  :D

Volvo, are renown for safety... or that is certainly the persona they try and project. And.. not unsuccessfully, I would have to say. So here is my somewhat serious question.

In view of this really tough leg , with both loss of life and equipment issues, added to the loss of life on a previous leg, is there some "bean counter" at Volvo saying ... "This is really not good for our image".  Could  they contemplate a time-out in Itajai, using a reason of improving safety?

 

Safe ? Yes......but they are trying to shed the "Granny" image.

And emphasize

Rugged,....Tough....Swedish Luxury.....The vehicle bred in the Arctic circle

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^ All I’m hearing is Yanmar Yanmar Yanmar where people were previously chanting Volvo Volvo Volvo.

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