southerncross

VOR Leg 7 Auckland to Itajai

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38 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Chay, how much would it be to tow Vestas to Itajai?  And are there any boats capable in the vicinity?

Maybe they could split the costs with Mapfre :ph34r:

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If Plan A was good a few days ago then it must be still good subject to weather. 

They are probably going to have to find somewhere to put in say another 500L of fuel (or be met closer to Brazil to top up) so they can do 8K not 6k otherwise it is nearly a 2 week trip. What ever they are doing about fixing propulsion they need to get a wriggle on..the clock is ticking. 

The whole race crew going is bullshit now

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22 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If Plan A was good a few days ago then it must be still good subject to weather. 

They are probably going to have to find somewhere to put in say another 500L of fuel (or be met closer to Brazil to top up) so they can do 8K not 6k otherwise it is nearly a 2 week trip. What ever they are doing about fixing propulsion they need to get a wriggle on..the clock is ticking. 

The whole race crew going is bullshit now

Perhaps the sponsor told them of the three strikes rule.  :mellow:

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48 minutes ago, Varan said:

Maybe they could split the costs with Mapfre :ph34r:

...that would assume there's still some budget.  :unsure:

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FWIW, SI reported Brunel was only 4m50s ahead of Dongfeng

That's 10 minutes less than VOR's release.

Tom Ehman's fact checking might want to retract that broadcast and fix the error, or get the VOR to change theirs.

Or tell his poodles here or there to quit being so sloppy and get the facts straight.

5ac454f3c7e62_ScreenShot2018-04-03at9_42_34PM.png.8f3efc2edd1c5347fed11452ca85d999.png

VOR says

Leg 7 into Itajaí 

1. Team Brunel finish time of 14:45:18 UTC in 16d 13h 45min 18sec - 16 points

2. Dongfeng Race Team time of 15:00:08 UTC in 16d 14h 00min 08sec - 12 points

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12 minutes ago, stief said:

Or tell his poodles here

Mr Poodle to you..I'm working on Tommy's breaking news for his show next Tuesday. 

I won't give too much away but it involves a transgender prostitute with a lisp called Brian, a gerbil wrangler, a torn genoa, the San Fransisco Fire Department and a member of European royalty.

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15 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

Perhaps the sponsor told them of the three strikes rule.  :mellow:

Well to be fair different boat/crew so they still have one left.

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4 hours ago, PIL007 said:

It's the mental state of the young ones that concerns me... At Witty's age, coming to terms with death is easier than it was in ones 20's...

I hope the delivery to Brazil goes well for all... 

Big ups to Brunel and DF.....and go Dee

I'm happy to move on from this leg... see you all at the next one

No offense, Pil, but having one's best friend die, especially under circumstances such as these, is not easier regardless of your age. Trust me. 

4 hours ago, southerncross said:

I can't watch or listen to the show anymore. It is insufferable.  The poaching is just wrong. The inaccuracy bad journalism. 

4 hours ago, animeproblem said:

Funny that you mention the AC threads, just checked them myself.

I went there briefly recently. It's an awful place.

2 hours ago, Ozee Adventure said:

Is this because its the first place they landed where there are authorities?

75ec71_70ea2a4282ae41268af2995b458bb8d3~mv2.jpg

Yes.

ON a much lighter note, I have been laughing about Stief's sloth gif all day.

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2 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

No offense, Pil, but having one's best friend die, especially under circumstances such as these, is not easier regardless of your age. Trust me. 

I can't watch or listen to the show anymore. It is insufferable.  The poaching is just wrong. The inaccuracy bad journalism. 

I went there briefly recently. It's an awful place.

Yes.

ON a much lighter note, I have been laughing about Stief's sloth gif all day.

Not easy at all... but understanding it and coping after the event at age 50 as opposed to 20 was my point

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31 minutes ago, Ozee Adventure said:

I thought I was going to have to get someone to explain it in blonde :P

International waters?

Yes. The boats flag country might also instigate something. VOR certainly will.

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35 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

ON a much lighter note, I have been laughing about Stief's sloth gif all day

You won't see it anymore...got halfway across the road 2 hours later, then decided to take a nap.

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Thing that bothers me about Vestas is the question how much self inflicted both the leg 4 and leg 7 damage is? Are Charlie and Mark pushing too hard? Do they know when to throttle down?

Bouwe, Dee, Xabi and Nicho (Simeon) knew already and I think Charles C has learned that too this edition (as compared to the last one). 

It takes some bold decision making and experience to back off, especially when your (young) crew disagrees. 

Just my two pennies...

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45 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Well to be fair different boat/crew so they still have one left.

...not much difference from an accountant's perspective.  :mellow:

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13 minutes ago, Elisa said:

Are Charlie and Mark pushing too hard? Do they know when to throttle down?

There might be something in that who knows. They were the most southern boat so sea state would have been worse and the one closest north to them, Akzo gybed north around that time.

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55 minutes ago, Ozee Adventure said:

I thought I was going to have to get someone to explain it in blonde :P

International waters?

The flag state's laws usually apply aboard for incidents in international waters. Otherwise the laws of the nation's who's territorial waters you are floating in apply.

In any case when you arrive in a port with one less crew than those listed on your crew manifest the local police will investigate (in this case the Policia De Investigaciones). The flag nation of the vessel and the deceased national's police may also get involved but normally accept the findings of the local coroner. 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:
46 minutes ago, littlechay said:

The flag state's laws usually apply aboard for incidents in international waters. Otherwise the laws of the nation's who's territorial waters you are floating in apply.

In any case when you arrive in a port with one less crew than those listed on your crew manifest the local police will investigate (in this case the Policia De Investigaciones). The flag nation of the vessel and the deceased national's police may also get involved but normally accept the findings of the local coroner. 

Yes. The boats flag country might also instigate something. VOR certainly will.

Thanks gents, I investigate deaths for part of my living & even after doing Clipper I haven't really thought it through x 

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4 minutes ago, Ozee Adventure said:

Thanks gents, I investigate deaths for part of my living & even after doing Clipper I haven't really thought it through x 

Even after doing Clipper! Now there's a loaded statement.

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What is the flag state for the VOR65s? I've searched the VOR site and SA generally and cannot find the answer.

Admitted thread drift but since this is the most trustworthy and generally most retribution-light thread: To what extent is the information on the VOR site about the boats Turner, etc. have proposed for the next VOR edition valid? I thought once he quit everything regarding the next edition is up in the air, incl dates and different types of boats for the in port and offshore races; and certainly from Bruno DuBois' letter in response to BH FP article et al, as far as he is concerned there are a number of boat-related issues to be discussed. 

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15 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

What is the flag state for the VOR65s? I've searched the VOR site and SA generally and cannot find the answer.

Admitted thread drift but since this is the most trustworthy and generally most retribution-light thread: To what extent is the information on the VOR site about the boats Turner, etc. have proposed for the next VOR edition valid? I thought once he quit everything regarding the next edition is up in the air, incl dates and different types of boats for the in port and offshore races; and certainly from Bruno DuBois' letter in response to BH FP article et al, as far as he is concerned there are a number of boat-related issues to be discussed. 

Differs from team to team, but mostly some offshore haven somewhere.  Bermuda or similar.  The team nationality is not necessarily where the vessel is registered

4 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Unfortunately not allowed in Chay.  Thanks for all the info so far.

 

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Looking pretty painful on Mapfre right now. Whilst I obviously want Dee in 4th, that has to be painful onboard knowing the food is running low.

Amazing work by their shore team, never give up attitude and the very definition of PPPPPP!

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4 minutes ago, Potter said:

Differs from team to team, but mostly some offshore haven somewhere.  Bermuda or similar.  The team nationality is not necessarily where the vessel is registered

Unfortunately not allowed in Chay.  Thanks for all the info so far.

 

Just some photos. Boat and rig look ok to me.

Trying to attach the lifted pics...

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FB_IMG_1522828111071.jpg

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8 hours ago, southerncross said:

 

 

Enman is a slut and a complete turd. No wonder they film it in a motel room.

 

 

7 hours ago, southerncross said:

He does have the skinny on the news sometimes which I am happy to lift.

 

Yes but he "lifts" all that as well most likely!

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

You've probably already found it, but since nobody replied (at least no that I've seen it):

2D: https://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/tracker/leg07_babylon.html

3D: https://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/assets/virtualeye/volvobabylon/

Thanks Renny, you are really paying attention, and no, I had not found it yet. I was in fact after the virtual trackers, or Virtual Eye as they are called, and the second one is exactly what I was looking for, Virtual Eye 2D.  The Android virtual app has a 2D and 3D option, and I found the 3D impossible to navigate. So I was just curious how it would be on a bigger screen, but have no real need for that.

Just looked back in the Leg 6 thread, and there this button is mentioned by SC: Screen Shot 2018-02-19 at 11.56.13 AM.png

In fact I played with the 3D version, I now remember. So has that button now disappeared from the Babylon tracker, or am I missing something?

And is there anything on the VOR site about this, or is it another example of their miscommunication?

 

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1 hour ago, Potter said:

Looking pretty painful on Mapfre right now. Whilst I obviously want Dee in 4th, that has to be painful onboard knowing the food is running low.

Amazing work by their shore team, never give up attitude and the very definition of PPPPPP!

Maybe they went off their food after one of their friends died.  At least they can still eat something.

Oh sorry, Look over there!  There's Mapfre looking painful!  Fun times!

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6 minutes ago, DtM said:

You are one weird sick fuck.

At least I acknowledged that a good man died, unlike the VOR office.

Edit: and I want to know what they are doing to change the killer traveler!

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Oh and if you see a blue VO65 with a ridiculously short mast going for a sail northbound in the next few days....

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Guessing by the reviews of Sailing Illustrated I’ve saved a lot of time by never watching. Much like ignoring Random 

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Probably answered, haven’t followed all. 

 

Other trackers this time? Remember volodijaja and forss tracker other times. 

 

Edit: Found gis.ee/vor/  :-)

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So what are they doing to prevent people being knocked into the piss by the killer traveler?

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4 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

What is the flag state for the VOR65s? I've searched the VOR site and SA generally and cannot find the answer.

Admitted thread drift but since this is the most trustworthy and generally most retribution-light thread: To what extent is the information on the VOR site about the boats Turner, etc. have proposed for the next VOR edition valid? I thought once he quit everything regarding the next edition is up in the air, incl dates and different types of boats for the in port and offshore races; and certainly from Bruno DuBois' letter in response to BH FP article et al, as far as he is concerned there are a number of boat-related issues to be discussed. 

Georgetown

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4 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

Admitted thread drift but since this is the most trustworthy and generally most retribution-light thread: To what extent is the information on the VOR site about the boats Turner, etc. have proposed for the next VOR edition valid? I thought once he quit everything regarding the next edition is up in the air, incl dates and different types of boats for the in port and offshore races; and certainly from Bruno DuBois' letter in response to BH FP article et al, as far as he is concerned there are a number of boat-related issues to be discussed. 

I'm  foiler fan however after looking at the SO drone footage we have seen this edition for the first time in sporty conditions, in particular one of Brunel plowing into the bottom/back of a wave and wiping off 20k in a millisecond and a regular norm, I'm starting to have my doubts. 

A crewed boat will push a lot harder and for longer than the SH VG foiling guys. I'm not sure anymore these things will cut the mustard "as is" and maybe what Bruno is inferring to and behind their design/build suspension?

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm  foiler fan however after looking at the SO drone footage we have seen this edition for the first time in sporty conditions, in particular one of Brunel plowing into the bottom/back of a wave and wiping off 20k in a millisecond and a regular norm, I'm starting to have my doubts. 

A crewed boat will push a lot harder and for longer than the SH VG foiling guys. I'm not sure anymore these things will cut the mustard "as is" and maybe what Bruno is inferring to and behind their design/build suspension?

I'm with you on that.  Would be a spectacle but one too many things that could go disastrously wrong.  Still, some design elements from the IMOCA's would improve speed, bow stuffing and water over the deck.

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A long day for Akzo coming up if they can't get out of that hole..maybe too far out to get much sea breeze when it fills in later..and their sinking. Bitch of a job this RTW caper.

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18 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I'm with you on that.  Would be a spectacle but one too many things that could go disastrously wrong.  Still, some design elements from the IMOCA's would improve speed, bow stuffing and water over the deck.

SX I actually think they have just as many issues below as on deck to deal with...maybe even more important ones.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

SX I actually think they have just as many issues below as on deck to deal with...maybe even more important ones.

True.

padroom_1_1200.jpg

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Jack, you'll like this from Alex Thompson.  Thread drift.  Maybe we should resurrect the Super 60 thread.  Imagine the sponsors.  And new boats every Edition (maybe).

Talk to internationalize the class, the project under consideration to run the Volvo Ocean Race IMOCA is it in your opinion a good idea? 
For a team like mine, so we can run the Volvo Ocean Race with a small additional cost, but for a double performance, it is obviously a good idea . Hugo Boss, we regularly talk to participate in the Volvo, but the relationship between the costs and benefits was not enough so far, then, it might work. We have also re-signed a contract for four years with Hugo Boss it five months ago and when we discussed the matter, they were very excited by this prospect . And if the Volvo becomes IMOCA event, I think we'll get the skippers of the Volvo in the Vendée Globe, and unlike the Vendée Globe sailors go on the Volvo, it can only be positive. In my opinion, the two races do not compete , they tell different stories, they are really complementary, it is an important point. We must stop behaving as if we were all in competition. We are the only on water.

You said at Tip & Shaft / Connect as one of the obstacles to the development of the Vendée Globe is that it is managed by a company partly public, can you say more? 
The Vendée Globe should make efforts to internationalize. Organizers say they do, but in reality, this is not the case. I made half of all the Vendée Globe, so I am well placed to know! In France, the Vendée Globe has reached its limits : organizers say that 80% of French people know the race, so now to become bigger, go abroad. The Vendée Globe is a state property [mainly due to department, Ed], this is public money, and it always will be. The problem is that it is directed in the same way that a municipal council , with very heavy process. I do not think this is the right way to handle this is for me one of the biggest sporting events in the world. But I still want to emphasize that the people working for the Vendée Globe do a fantastic job. 

https://us12.campaign-archive.com/?u=1e692787e2c4cc3370813fca1&id=e8da4f384d

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A day late, but incredibly well done, Brunel, and congrats to Dong Feng as well. Touching words by both skippers. 

Enjoyed the short Live show this morning. Xabi’s message to TTOP (we came from behind in the last leg and caught up to you) was pretty funny, but perhaps a bit optmistic at this point. 

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41 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Enjoyed the short Live show this morning. Xabi’s message to TTOP (we came from behind in the last leg) was pretty funny

Agree, and TTOP crew enthusiasm over the sked was equally funny (more reactions in the vid SC posted  above).

(Damn the quality of content is high since most posters now ignore  random junk: still catching up . . .only 4 pages to go ;) 

This thread is well over 4000 posts in just a few weeks. Hard but worthwhile keeping up. Tom Ehman was pleased SI had almost 1000 comments in 1 year.)

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

In France, the Vendée Globe has reached its limits : organizers say that 80% of French people know the race, so now to become bigger, go abroad. 

He nailed it saying this. Easier saying it than doing it though. 

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

He nailed it saying this. Easier saying it than doing it though. 

Brexit certainly won't help Alex.

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On 2018-04-02 at 1:22 PM, southerncross said:

As we approach Brazil.  Watch when there is time.  

Credit to Virgulino Ferreira in http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/197613-the-empire-of-a-sailor/

[bump] Thanks SC. Long and tough hours needed to view. Sorta like a sailor's equivalent to "unknown  soldier" monuments.

Spoiler alert in the linked thread.

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32 minutes ago, stief said:

bump] Thanks SC. Long and tough hours needed to view. Sorta like a sailor's equivalent to "unknown  soldier" monuments.

Stief I recall you were contemplating going to Brazil and your wife was worried. I recall saying don't worry about down south it is up north..the poorest part. 

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Stief I recall you were contemplating going to Brazil and your wife was worried. I recall saying don't worry about down south it is up north..the poorest part. 

Yes. Was thinking about that, and hoping for a chance to ask Carlos (and now Virgulino Ferreira, linked above) for their views.

Too, thought of asking Couch if he was considering  a possible trip to Newport like last time, but after hearing Tom Ehman pimping Newport, and cringing at the thought of the Homeland security latex ladies, decided Itajaí would be more enjoyable. No matter--only a month before I can start prepping my boats for the season.

[like limit reached during catchup: you've been on a roll, so couldn't take the easy acknowledgement route. later, I hope]

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From Scally FB courtesy ForrestDoggy

Scallywags never give up!

When you’re feeling the pain
And you’re sick of the game
But you’re young and you’re brave and you’re bright
You pick yourself up and dust yourself down
Cos it’s the carrying on that’s hard.

Scallwags will continue!!

Our delivery crew have arrived and we are now in a race against the clock to make the start in Brazil for the next leg. We are all hurt but we are not out!!

Scallywags never ever give up!!

We will make the start we will look after each other we will finish the race and do the best job we can for all Scallywags in John’s memory and honor.

On behalf of all the team I would like to thank all our supporters for all the messages of support it has helped us enormously in this difficult time.

Witty

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15 hours ago, animeproblem said:

Funny that you mention the AC threads, just checked them myself.

Been "born" on SAAC, and anticipated to get beaten to death here in the VOR forum for it. Hasn't happened, and I'm generally very happy about the more civilized, although cheeky tone hereabouts. Thanks for that!!! :wub:

I've made some good friends over there, and most of them cut down on posting, very much like me. The AC forum has degraded immensely, and there's no end in sight.

Hoggie did not deserve the spanking. I think, he was really miffed that VOR was silent about the most important incident of this leg (who are we to criticize him while we also do not let any opportunity pass to criticize VOR media?), and he maybe has not listened closely enough until the end of the "Live". We're all human, right? Hoggie is a good one.
 

10 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

(...)

ON a much lighter note, I have been laughing about Stief's sloth gif all day.

Talking about degrading forums, here's my thread drift of the day (if you have lots of tiiiimmmeeee...):

6 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Thanks Renny, you are really paying attention, and no, I had not found it yet. I was in fact after the virtual trackers, or Virtual Eye as they are called, and the second one is exactly what I was looking for, Virtual Eye 2D.  The Android virtual app has a 2D and 3D option, and I found the 3D impossible to navigate. So I was just curious how it would be on a bigger screen, but have no real need for that.

Just looked back in the Leg 6 thread, and there this button is mentioned by SC: Screen Shot 2018-02-19 at 11.56.13 AM.png

In fact I played with the 3D version, I now remember. So has that button now disappeared from the Babylon tracker, or am I missing something?

And is there anything on the VOR site about this, or is it another example of their miscommunication?

 

This specific button is still here: https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/tracker.html
It's the last one in the column, and it toggles the data table with the graphics.
BTW, I am not using the App, my Droid is too old.

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28 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Stief I recall you were contemplating going to Brazil and your wife was worried. I recall saying don't worry about down south it is up north..the poorest part. 

The north is entertaining, you just need to avoid being robbed, kidnapped, malaria and dengue fever. 

Apart from that it’s a great place, met some great people while I was there. 

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

From Scally FB courtesy ForrestDoggy

Scallywags never give up!

When you’re feeling the pain
And you’re sick of the game
But you’re young and you’re brave and you’re bright
You pick yourself up and dust yourself down
Cos it’s the carrying on that’s hard.

Scallwags will continue!!

Our delivery crew have arrived and we are now in a race against the clock to make the start in Brazil for the next leg. We are all hurt but we are not out!!

Scallywags never ever give up!!

We will make the start we will look after each other we will finish the race and do the best job we can for all Scallywags in John’s memory and honor.

On behalf of all the team I would like to thank all our supporters for all the messages of support it has helped us enormously in this difficult time.

Witty

Fair play to them!!!!! Go on Scallywag

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

From Scally FB courtesy ForrestDoggy

Scallywags never give up!

When you’re feeling the pain
And you’re sick of the game
But you’re young and you’re brave and you’re bright
You pick yourself up and dust yourself down
Cos it’s the carrying on that’s hard.

Scallwags will continue!!

Our delivery crew have arrived and we are now in a race against the clock to make the start in Brazil for the next leg. We are all hurt but we are not out!!

Scallywags never ever give up!!

We will make the start we will look after each other we will finish the race and do the best job we can for all Scallywags in John’s memory and honor.

On behalf of all the team I would like to thank all our supporters for all the messages of support it has helped us enormously in this difficult time.

Witty

Be great to see them back in the race, wasn’t a fan of Witt to start with. But they’ve definitely grown on me as a team to watch over the race. 

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

The north is entertaining, you just need to avoid being robbed, kidnapped, malaria and dengue fever. 

Advice was mainly to allay stief's missus about Itajai. I actually prefer Bahia and states north. 

 

 
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9 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

This specific button is still here: https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/tracker.html
It's the last one in the column, and it toggles the data table with the graphics.
BTW, I am not using the App, my Droid is too old.

Thanks, you're right, it's the same button but not doing the same thing...

BTW, I noticed you were back at the AC thread, and loved you trolling Spinray, who is going nuts. Well played.

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16 minutes ago, mad said:

The north is entertaining, you just need to avoid being robbed, kidnapped, malaria and dengue fever. 

Apart from that it’s a great place, met some great people while I was there. 

Cool. No problem with the robbing and kidnapping ( not worth enough; only the 5,041,002nd richest person on earth by income), and still keep up my immunizations and cautions. I live in the murder capital of Canada, and volunteer in the 'hood', so some experience knowing my way around. Thanks for the endorsement of the people.That's what matters. /end drift degrading--sorry Renny. Back to the Witty news and his chances of redemption. 

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Just saw Forestdawg's post.  This is indeed great news. 

I believe continuing the race in honor of Fish and in his memory will do more to help heal the crew than any therapy and medication.

I also believe that Fish's wife's blessing may have had something to do with it.

Way to hang Witty and Scally's!

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1 hour ago, stief said:

[bump] Thanks SC. Long and tough hours needed to view. Sorta like a sailor's equivalent to "unknown  soldier" monuments.

Spoiler alert in the linked thread.

Thanks for bumping, and thank you SC for posting that, I skipped past it.

What a nice documentary, and I can tell you it touched me deeply. Even more so after reading of his murder, very sad!

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The Magenta Project.

Glad to hear that @scallywaghk will continue in the Volvooceanrace and are aiming to get to the start for Leg 8 

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Anyone have an idea how they plan to get the Scally to Itajai?  Delivery crew ...

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Thanks all. Seriously great news. Guess that means the police have cleared the crew and they can speak out. Major hurdle met.

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25 minutes ago, stief said:

Cool. No problem with the robbing and kidnapping

Best and only safe place in Brasil is Fernando de Noronha, stopped there once, it's beautiful and peaceful. Or maybe not anymore as I believe the bloody cruise ships have now invaded it. 

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Gladwell's Line: Time for a rethink

by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com/nz 4 Apr 12:14 AEST4 April 2018

With the issues that have occurred on Leg 7 there must be some re-consideration of starting the Auckland - Brazil leg so late in the season and heading into the Southern Ocean in the autumn, or early winter.

Looking back into Peter Blake's day, the 1981/82 race in which Ceramco New Zealand competed, the fleet left Auckland on Boxing Day for the Southern Ocean and South America.

The next race, the 1985/86 Whitbread RTWR, when Blake skippered Lion NZ, the third leg of the race started on February 15, rounding Cape Horn on March 5, 1985.

The last three races have left Auckland for the Southern Ocean over a month later on March 18. This year Team Brunel rounded the notorious landmark 12 days later - which speaks to the much faster passages made on the haul through the Southern Ocean.

The 2011/12 Volvo Ocean Race fleet also took a hammering. That was the last year of the Volvo 70, and only two of the fleet finished in Itajai, Brazil without having suspended racing or having to nurse damaged boats.

By all accounts, the weather this year was worse than the two previous editions.

The other issue is that the skills of the crews, along with improvements in gear and technology, have increased exponentially and they can now drive the boats harder and faster for sustained periods than before.

The change is underlined by the time from Auckland to the Horn, which in 1985/86 took Lion NZ 18 days. This year Team Brunel sailed the same course in just 12 days over arguably a longer distance - there was no Ice Gate in Blake's day and they sailed down to 58degrees South (and passed within a few metres of icebergs in 150 metres visibility).

It has become reasonably clear now that the crews can take as much or more punishment than the boats. That situation has the design and structure engineers searching for definitive answers as to where the limits really lie.

Add into the equation the fact that the boats are being sailed at consistently high speeds for sustained periods of time, and with the crews assisted by sophisticated weather routing.

But the real issue is when the crews make a mistake, and the boat wipes out - either with a nosedive, a broach or Chinese gybe, or all of the above, then the strain on rigs, and boats in general, is horrendous. It's also action stations/danger time for the crew on deck.

While safety factors can be built in, no-one really knows what the loads are and where the limits lie. All the crews know is that they are either still in one piece after wiping out, or they have sustained a major breakage, and their leg is probably over.

What is not understood by the armchair fans is that the gear can be strained in these sort of episodes, and then inexplicably lets go sometime further down the track.

In many ways, it is fortunate that the timing of the next race is now somewhat in limbo. Clearly, there needs to be a timeout to look at several factors - being the timing of the event; the length of the race which has grown from 27,000nm in Blake's day to 45,000nm in the current course; and the design and engineering on the boats. Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed, just as it was in the America’s Cup after the incidents in 2012/13.

Good sailing!

Richard Gladwell 
NZ Editor 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/203724/Gladwells-Line--Volvo-OR-rethink

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40 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Anyone have an idea how they plan to get the Scally to Itajai?  Delivery crew ...

sail/motor leaving 5th AM chile time. boat won't make import race.

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2 minutes ago, Comsdown said:

sail/motor leaving 5th AM chile time. boat won't make import race.

Thanks.  How do you know that?

Chay, what would be the quickest route?  Will they bypass the Horn and cut through pat Puerto Arenas?

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15 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Gladwell's Line: Time for a rethink

by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com/nz 4 Apr 12:14 AEST4 April 2018

With the issues that have occurred on Leg 7 there must be some re-consideration of starting the Auckland - Brazil leg so late in the season and heading into the Southern Ocean in the autumn, or early winter.

Looking back into Peter Blake's day, the 1981/82 race in which Ceramco New Zealand competed, the fleet left Auckland on Boxing Day for the Southern Ocean and South America.

The next race, the 1985/86 Whitbread RTWR, when Blake skippered Lion NZ, the third leg of the race started on February 15, rounding Cape Horn on March 5, 1985.

The last three races have left Auckland for the Southern Ocean over a month later on March 18. This year Team Brunel rounded the notorious landmark 12 days later - which speaks to the much faster passages made on the haul through the Southern Ocean.

The 2011/12 Volvo Ocean Race fleet also took a hammering. That was the last year of the Volvo 70, and only two of the fleet finished in Itajai, Brazil without having suspended racing or having to nurse damaged boats.

By all accounts, the weather this year was worse than the two previous editions.

The other issue is that the skills of the crews, along with improvements in gear and technology, have increased exponentially and they can now drive the boats harder and faster for sustained periods than before.

The change is underlined by the time from Auckland to the Horn, which in 1985/86 took Lion NZ 18 days. This year Team Brunel sailed the same course in just 12 days over arguably a longer distance - there was no Ice Gate in Blake's day and they sailed down to 58degrees South (and passed within a few metres of icebergs in 150 metres visibility).

It has become reasonably clear now that the crews can take as much or more punishment than the boats. That situation has the design and structure engineers searching for definitive answers as to where the limits really lie.

Add into the equation the fact that the boats are being sailed at consistently high speeds for sustained periods of time, and with the crews assisted by sophisticated weather routing.

But the real issue is when the crews make a mistake, and the boat wipes out - either with a nosedive, a broach or Chinese gybe, or all of the above, then the strain on rigs, and boats in general, is horrendous. It's also action stations/danger time for the crew on deck.

While safety factors can be built in, no-one really knows what the loads are and where the limits lie. All the crews know is that they are either still in one piece after wiping out, or they have sustained a major breakage, and their leg is probably over.

What is not understood by the armchair fans is that the gear can be strained in these sort of episodes, and then inexplicably lets go sometime further down the track.

In many ways, it is fortunate that the timing of the next race is now somewhat in limbo. Clearly, there needs to be a timeout to look at several factors - being the timing of the event; the length of the race which has grown from 27,000nm in Blake's day to 45,000nm in the current course; and the design and engineering on the boats. Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed, just as it was in the America’s Cup after the incidents in 2012/13.

Good sailing!

Richard Gladwell 
NZ Editor 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/203724/Gladwells-Line--Volvo-OR-rethink

As usual, Gladwell is all over the shop here.

So we need a safety review?

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7 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

As usual, Gladwell is all over the shop here.

So we need a safety review?

 

Not necessarily a safety review - but in the course of planning when VOR departs Alicante/Lisbon - wherever the future holds, scheduling stops and events between Cape Town and Auckland, need to have a mind to consider that March is awfully late in the season (no other ocean sailing event crosses Cape Horn that late in the season). Especially with the availability of more data & the trend seems to be suggesting that we are expecting more extreme weather conditions now than we had in the past. The lack of doldrums in the Atlantic last year & persistent strength in the southern ocean this cycle isn't really a isolated freak event. Folks making the annual Atlantic east to west crossing have noticed how trades have settled in far later in the season too.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

While safety factors can be built in, no-one really knows what the loads are and where the limits lie. All the crews know is that they are either still in one piece after wiping out, or they have sustained a major breakage, and their leg is probably over.

. . . .

In many ways, it is fortunate that the timing of the next race is now somewhat in limbo. Clearly, there needs to be a timeout to look at several factors - being the timing of the event; the length of the race which has grown from 27,000nm in Blake's day to 45,000nm in the current course; and the design and engineering on the boats. Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed, 

 Thought this a useful summary of the forum points already made.  . . .

1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

As usual, Gladwell is all over the shop here.

So we need a safety review?

???  don't quite understand "all over the shop" (I've found Gladwell articles hold up better than Sailing Illustrated, for example).

Yeah, that "Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed"  is easily filtered.  The perspective on timing and length this time is useful, though he ducked the impact of China on the routing and timing.

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38 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Screen Shot 2018-04-04 at 9.47.49 AM.png

I wonder what she means by “through no fault of our own”. That the spreaders / rig were faultily manufactured or of different quality than those on the other boats?  (BTW, routing for Dee to at least beat MAPFRE)

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5 minutes ago, Miffy said:

we are expecting more extreme weather conditions now than we had in the past.

Fiji Bitter can attest to this.

Fiji PM warns of 'frightening new era' as he blames deadly cyclone on climate change

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/03/fiji-pm-warns-frightening-new-era-blames-deadly-cyclone-climate/

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

 Thought this a useful summary of the forum points already made.  . . .

???  don't quite understand "all over the shop" (I've found Gladwell articles hold up better than Sailing Illustrated, for example).

Yeah, that "Safety and crew protection is now a significant factor needing to be reviewed"  is easily filtered.  The perspective on timing and length this time is useful, though he ducked the impact of China on the routing and timing.

The thing is, the weather wasn't particularly brutal during this SO leg, was it? Sure there were two good blows and the sea state was pretty big at times. But certainly, by all the accounts I've read, not legendary brutal with massive towering seas and greybeards. What has changed dramatically is the design and speed of the boats.

Are they going TOO fast?

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

The thing is, the weather wasn't particularly brutal during this SO leg, was it? Sure there were two good blows and the sea state was pretty big at times. But certainly, by all the accounts I've read, not legendary brutal with massive towering seas and greybeards. What has changed dramatically is the design and speed of the boats.

I'm glad you brought that up and I was going to ask Stief about this.  

But I seem to remember back in the day of the earlier BOC and Around Alone, accounts of 10, 15, 20 meter seas and 60 - 80 knot gales, of rogue waves and boats diving down massive waves and pitchpoling!  Exaggeration?  Foggy memory?  Round in Winter?  I'll have to dig through my library when I have time.

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