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Matt DI

Hazard to Navigation

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Just a friendly heads up. A container ship lost 73 containers over the side last night off of Hatteras. The vessel is anchored off Charleston now.

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7 minutes ago, Matt DI said:

Just a friendly heads up. A container ship lost 73 containers over the side last night off of Hatteras. The vessel is anchored off Charleston now.

I saw the Coast Guard note on that yesterday..... those containers are going to be scattered up the US East Coast by the Gulf Stream. They're going to be a hazard all the way to Ireland for a couple of weeks.

FB- Doug

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Sooo who insures such things as lost cargo. loyds? Who’s paying the bill as the CG alerts us. Who pays the bill as these things come in. Are found  one way or another?

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The shipping companies should be fined heavily. Maybe they would secure the cargo better.

 

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16 hours ago, DRIFTW00D said:

Sooo who insures such things as lost cargo. loyds? Who’s paying the bill as the CG alerts us. Who pays the bill as these things come in. Are found  one way or another?

As far as I know there is no effort to recover the lost containers.  You don't know if they float or sink.  There are no tracking devices on them.

Losing containers is just a cost of business.

Most choose to insure their shipment, some don't. There are tons and tons of insurance companies that insure cargo.

What is interesting is a Court decides whether the loss is General Average or Particular Average.  What is this?

When one or a few containers are lost, it was not inherent to the safety of the voyage and whoever owned the goods in those containers and their insurance companies are the ones who pay for the loss.  This is called Particular Salvage.

When a bunch of containers are lost which ended up reducing the center of gravity and possibly keeping the ship from rolling upside down, the loss of those containers ended up saving all of the other containers.  If they hadn't been lost, then all containers could have been lost.  Should this occur all containers whose shipments were saved pays for the loss of the containers that were lost.  This is called General Average.  Adjusting these claims is quite a bit of work, you take the value of each shipment and then apportion the loss based on the values.

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As long as they don't make there way up the Hudson River I'm good;)

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Of course there is no effort to recover the lost contaniners! They are a deadly thread only to racing sailors and recreatinal boaters so who cares?

If a racing yacht breaks a foil on a container, the managers of the shiping company are called average arseholes. If a cruiser crashes into a container and drowns, they are called above-average, or particular, arseholes. If they are losing a bunch of containers over the side every right and left and don't care, they are called general arseholes.

Adjusting the bore of these arseholes is quite a bit of work, you take a rubber glove and some chili sauce and then give 'em the good ol' harbor cruise based on the damage.

 

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I believe finding one is like finding a boat out there with no one aboard.  You get to strike a salvage claim on it.  A court will determine how much you are entitled to.  It is a combination of your time, fuel costs, and how hazardous it was to recover it.

20 minutes ago, Je Prefere said:

do I get to keep one if I find it ?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Je Prefere said:

do I get to keep one if I find it ?

 

What if it's the one Bull Gator has been living in these past few years?

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Send it back out to sea.

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4 hours ago, By the lee said:

Those containers should have a plug (several) that dissolve when immersed in salt water so they flood. I realize some cargo may be too  buoyant for them to sink completely....but some world trade body should legislate packing materials that water log. 

I never stop the car if my wife sees a dollar store.  <_<

Years ago I went on a mission to get CO2 cylinders for your inflatable PFD accepted on airlines worldwide.  What a learning experience.  Obviously you start with our FAA, and DOT (and every other country has some sort of safety organization), then at the international level is ICAO and IATA, who all meet as part of the United Nations.  At the end of the day, each airline owns their airplanes. Each airline gets to choose their risk level.  So there is no way to legislate that airlines be forced to accept them on their airplanes.

While not a parallel to this discussion, it is to show the number of organizations involved when dealing with international issues.

 

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12 hours ago, gn4478 said:

The shipping companies should be fined heavily. Maybe they would secure the cargo better.

 

That would incentivise concealment. Better to know they are there. 

Cheers, 

               W.

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I dont think you need plugs. AFAIK they are not watertight anyway.

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5 hours ago, Omer said:

I dont think you need plugs. AFAIK they are not watertight anyway.

 

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We're all gonna die!

Lost containers

 

 

Quote

619 words • 2~4 min read

Busting Ocean Myths: How many containers are really lost at sea?

 

The Claim: 10,000 containers are lost at sea every year.

Who said it: Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, Slashdot, Yahoo News, NOAA, me, and many others.

Status: False.

10,000 is one of those numbers that’s big enough to be surprising, but not so huge to inspire immediate incredulity. The worldwide shipping industry is enormous and containers do get lost overboard. With a few recent high-profile maritime accidents, it’s not hard to believe that 10,000 containers could be sent to swim with the fishes every year.

The MOL Comfort breaks its back. Image via gCaptain.

The MOL Comfort breaks its back. Image via gCaptain.

Fortunately, it’s pretty hard to hide a missing container and the number of containers lost at sea is actually much lower than 10,000. In 2011 and 2014, the World Shipping Council surveyed it’s members to find out exactly how many containers are lost at sea each year. What they found was that not only was the number of lost containers an order of magnitude less than the 10,000 figure, but that the average was driven up by two catastrophic accidents–the sinking of the MOL Comfort and the grounding of the MV Rena.

 

Between 2008 and 2013, and excluding these two maritime disasters, an average of 546 containers were lost at sea. When Comfort and Rena are added to the equation, that number climbs to 1,679 containers per year. The MOL Comfort, which broke in half on June 17, 2013 and subsequently sunk during a prolonged attempt to recover her stern, was the worst container ship disaster in history: 4,293 containers were lost in a single incident. The MV Rena grounded on a reef of the New Zealand coast in late 2011, spilling 900 containers over the side.

Even with these two maritime tragedies, the number of containers lost at sea each year come nowhere close to 10,000. When you consider that roughly 120 million containers were moved across the ocean in 2013, 1,679 lost containers per year seems positively minuscule.

 

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Well, Maersk and Coast Guard are monitoring and putting signaling devices on the couple of containers still afloat/awash, and will try sidescan to see if there are others. 
http://gcaptain.com/us-authorities-monitoring-76-containers-lost-from-maersk-ship-off-north-carolina/?goal=0_f50174ef03-96748855d9-139795957&mc_cid=96748855d9&mc_eid=0a747aadd9

It's understandable that we sailors get all fire-and-brimstone over lost containers, but it's a rare occurrence (okay, I know-- "Oh, yeah! At sea??  Chance in a million") considering how many containers don't go overboard.   At least they're making an effort, it's not complete lah-de-dah.

 

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On 06/03/2018 at 12:43 AM, LB 15 said:

What if it's the one Bull Gator has been living in these past few years?

Drill some extra holes in the bottom 

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