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McGyver

Super Foilers

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It's a good thing that the "Flying Wallendas" in the picture are not landing on what's written on the mainsail...

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It seems like the pushback on these boats (unstable, capsize/ nosedive too often, fragile, too fast) parallels that against multihulls when they were first becoming popular.

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Thanks!!  I now have a new background wallpaper pic on my work 'puter!!

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Related to the FP and the “retarded” comment, the European and Australian/New Zealand sailing communities embrace high performance sailing WAY MORE than the US sailing community. I think the US sailing community is to a significant degree scared of high performance sailing so how do humans react to something they are scared of? They bash it and try to de-legitimize it. It’s no wonder the US is no longer competitive at the Olympics and has pretty much disappeared from the high end offshore sailing circuits.

 

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It's not a positive reflection on the human condition but If there were no crashes in NASCAR would anybody watch? NASCAR became a huge multi-million dollar industry because of the multicar pile-ups.

So if people knew there was going to be aquatic carnage with spectacles like that on the FP they might come down to watch (I know I would!) and others might want to get out onto the water themselves.

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I find it kind of odd that with those training wheels on each side they still can't get it right. This goes for all classes, but maybe it's time to take a step off the foiling soapbox and utilize our tactical minds back on the racecourse for racing and not drag racing into the next pitchpole. 

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3 hours ago, AClass USA 230 said:

Related to the FP and the “retarded” comment, the European and Australian/New Zealand sailing communities embrace high performance sailing WAY MORE than the US sailing community. I think the US sailing community is to a significant degree scared of high performance sailing so how do humans react to something they are scared of? They bash it and try to de-legitimize it. It’s no wonder the US is no longer competitive at the Olympics and has pretty much disappeared from the high end offshore sailing circuits.

 

Best to just ignore such elitist opinions........not unlike dealing with politicians by laughing at them........

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16 minutes ago, Aqua Logic said:

I find it kind of odd that with those training wheels on each side they still can't get it right. This goes for all classes, but maybe it's time to take a step off the foiling soapbox and utilize our tactical minds back on the racecourse for racing and not drag racing into the next pitchpole. 

By watching the actual race replays, they get it right +90% of the time and the thrill/spill aspect of the racing and the boats is what makes it attractive to the non-sailing public.

If your opinion of high performance sailing whether in multihulls, skiffs, or soon to be 75’ long AC foiling monhullers is a non-tactical,  nothing more than a drag race to the next “pitch pole” kind of race, then it’s reasonable to assume you have no experience with this type of sailboat racing.

Embrace diversity, limit uniformity.

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4 minutes ago, AClass USA 230 said:

By watching the actual race replays, they get it right +90% of the time and the thrill/spill aspect of the racing and the boats is what makes it attractive to the non-sailing public.

If your opinion of high performance sailing whether in multihulls, skiffs, or soon to be 75’ long AC foiling monhullers is a non-tactical,  nothing more than a drag race to the next “pitch pole” kind of race, then it’s reasonable to assume you have no experience with this type of sailboat racing.

Embrace diversity, limit uniformity.

You are correct. The only experience I have is from my own observations. I guess I don't really care if the non-sailing public gets the sport, but agree with you that foiling racing is indeed fascinating and should be embraced. 

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6 hours ago, Commercial Boater said:

It seems like the pushback on these boats (unstable, capsize/ nosedive too often, fragile, too fast) parallels that against multihulls when they were first becoming popular.

quite the opposite I think. other foiling classes have proven the point that foiling boats are indeed controllable, stable and obviously fast. the superfoiler on the other hand seems to be an outlier so people seeing the superfoilers constantly wiping out, and often in spectacular fashion they, I think fairly ask "what gives?" 

I mean lets remember that foiling boats aren't a new thing. the moths have been a foiling class for going at least a decade now, the AC-72's first got on foiling in 2012. the GC-32's have been a foiling class since what? 2014? foiling is hardly new at this point. 

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I think the concept is excellent, but that - in pushing the performance envelope - they haven't quite got the risk/reward balance correct in terms of boathandling. In other words, the Superfoiler is just a little bit too 'exciting' in the crash and burn department at the moment.

 I see these as resolvable teething problems on a really clever forward-thinking platform with tons of potential.

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they should drop a smaller high aoa T foil just aft of the bow.

may be a bit slower, but might keep the whole mess from going down the mine so often...

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5 hours ago, Aqua Logic said:

I find it kind of odd that with those training wheels on each side they still can't get it right. This goes for all classes, but maybe it's time to take a step off the foiling soapbox and utilize our tactical minds back on the racecourse for racing and not drag racing into the next pitchpole. 

 

^^^^^^^^  One of the most enjoyable facets of racing is the cerebral part, figuring out how to get the lead mine, PHRF or OD boat into the money.  At the speeds they are going, and the concentration required to avoid a spectular crash, how is there time to observe and think about the big picture?  I guess it's like learning to fly fixed wing aircraft.  You learn in small bites.  Practice one thing until proficient, then add another, then another, and another, until you are eventually flying the plane, without having to think about the numerous learned steps one is now instinctively doing.  So, it's kind of like instrument flying, when you are flying the plane without thinking, and can use your mind for other things, like an instrument approach.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

^^^^^^^^  One of the most enjoyable facets of racing is the cerebral part, figuring out how to get the lead mine, PHRF or OD boat into the money.  At the speeds they are going, and the concentration required to avoid a spectular crash, how is there time to observe and think about the big picture?  I guess it's like learning to fly fixed wing aircraft.  You learn in small bites.  Practice one thing until proficient, then add another, then another, and another, until you are eventually flying the plane, without having to think about the numerous learned steps one is now instinctively doing.  So, it's kind of like instrument flying, when you are flying the plane without thinking, and can use your mind for other things, like an instrument approach.

And you are exactly right. I spent the first 1/3rd of my sailing life sailing and racing Finns, Lasers, Lightning’s, Snipes, Thistles, and the occasional PHRF race but my passion was small boat one design. The high performance bug bit when I got into windsurfing and racing sailboards (plus it did not hurt that about 1/3rd of the sailboard fleet was hard bodied females!). What impressed me the most about racing a sailboard was that for the most part you just went faster as the wind picked up almost in a linear manner on all points of sail while racing a dinghy you never really went faster upwind after about 10 knots of wind and very limited downwind on how much the peformance increased as the breeze picked up. This meant the boats got less fun to sail and just loaded up more. I experienced the same (as what I observed with sailboards) when I started racing catamarans (Prindle 19 followed by Tornado to A-cat to foiling A-Cat now). When you get into racing boats that go this fast, at first you are consumed with the mechanics and keeping the boat on its feet. But once you get comfortable, the same tactical mind applies with the exceptions that you have to have a bigger view of what is going to trend during a race leg and really looking ahead in crossing situations and mark roundings. I believe this kind of perspective is the reason you hardly ever see any protests in multihull racing because the sailors are thinking way ahead and the consequences of a collision are more severe. So every time I hear that fast high performance sailing is just drag racing to laylines, I know it is usually from someone with little to no experience racing a true high performance sailboat.

In the Superfoiler discussion, I also think what a lot of critics have missed is that this concept was brought to market pretty fast and it looks like the sailors are getting more experienced at taming the boat at every event. I think the racing has been quite exciting to watch.

I’ll be 60 this year and look forward to another decade of racing an A-Class. It’s discouraging how many sailors I experience in their 40’s and 50’s who won’t give a high performance class a try because they have convinced themselves they are too “old”. This mindset seems much more prevalent in the US.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

^So, it's kind of like instrument flying, when you are flying the plane without thinking, and can use your mind for other things, like an instrument approach.

I think the SF guys are already there. Yes they could consider tactics but realize (tactically) that boat speed will trump a slower boats tactics.

What's the phrase? "Boat speed makes one a tactical genius" .

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The FP'ers wouldn't know "Anarchy" if it bit them on the ass!

If Superfoilers do not represent sailing at its most anarchic I don't know what does.

So along comes something thats not a J111 (for example todays FP story) and its a bit different. and a bit harder to sail brilliantly, and you FP bozos get stuck into it like a pack of mongrol dogs.

SA perfectly demonstrates the problems with US sailing. Just have a look where Dinghy Anarchy fits into the sceme of things, right down the list in NINTH place. FFS you have to scroll down lower than MH and GH anarchy. And this lack of respect for dinghy sailing is why your sailing is stuffed.

IMHO

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It seems like the fleet has got better since Adelaide. 

Tactics get harder the faster a boat goes. Trying to guess laylines going downwind on apparent wind boats is hard. Having to weight tactical option in a couple of seconds is hard. These things are hard to sail. Super physical. A little dangerous. Perfect for professional athletes. That's who modern pro sailors are right, athletes. 

I also love the slow speed chase of 4KSB where you can tack on every shift etc but times change.

If foiling is the future of the very top of the sport then that's a cool future.

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4 hours ago, cosmicsedso said:

The FP'ers wouldn't know "Anarchy" if it bit them on the ass!

If Superfoilers do not represent sailing at its most anarchic I don't know what does.

So along comes something thats not a J111 (for example todays FP story) and its a bit different. and a bit harder to sail brilliantly, and you FP bozos get stuck into it like a pack of mongrol dogs.

SA perfectly demonstrates the problems with US sailing. Just have a look where Dinghy Anarchy fits into the sceme of things, right down the list in NINTH place. FFS you have to scroll down lower than MH and GH anarchy. And this lack of respect for dinghy sailing is why your sailing is stuffed.

IMHO

+10000  Anarchy is a SC33, or whatever it was, ffs.

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9 hours ago, cosmicsedso said:

The FP'ers wouldn't know "Anarchy" if it bit them on the ass!

If Superfoilers do not represent sailing at its most anarchic I don't know what does.

So along comes something thats not a J111 (for example todays FP story) and its a bit different. and a bit harder to sail brilliantly, and you FP bozos get stuck into it like a pack of mongrol dogs.

SA perfectly demonstrates the problems with US sailing. Just have a look where Dinghy Anarchy fits into the sceme of things, right down the list in NINTH place. FFS you have to scroll down lower than MH and GH anarchy. And this lack of respect for dinghy sailing is why your sailing is stuffed.

IMHO

This site has never been about anarchy so much as its been whine-archy. 

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6 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

This site has never been about anarchy so much as its been whine-archy. 

amen. 

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18 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

This site has never been about anarchy so much as its been whine-archy. 

I think you might be confused, anarchy is just a disobedience to authority. It can come in whatever form it wants.

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