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crashtestdummy

Insurance-Double Handed race coverage

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What company are you all using?  

Boat and crew are more than qualified. No issues getting coverage for major races, deliveries, Cuba Etc but getting the run around for Bermuda race coverage double handed

AIG, Chubb, Ironshore and Pantaenius have all said no. Surprising Pantaenious said no as they are a major sponsor

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Chubb said no? That's surprising. I checked with them awhile back for my shorthanded sailing club and specifically asked if it would be a problem and was told it wouldn't be.

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Really surprised to hear Pantaenius said no. We swapped to them from Boat US when Boat US wouldn't let us sail to Bermuda (cruise) without 6 ppl on board. Pantaenius gave us a huge cruising range double-handed - could have missed Bermuda by 500 miles ;)

I'll ask a friend of mine who did it last year what company he used.

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17 hours ago, crashtestdummy said:

What company are you all using?  

Boat and crew are more than qualified. No issues getting coverage for major races, deliveries, Cuba Etc but getting the run around for Bermuda race coverage double handed

AIG, Chubb, Ironshore and Pantaenius have all said no. Surprising Pantaenious said no as they are a major sponsor

Pantaenius said no ... a race sponsor?  I'd contact the Race Chair etc. about that.

 

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Chubb said no? That's surprising. I checked with them awhile back for my shorthanded sailing club and specifically asked if it would be a problem and was told it wouldn't be.

Double handed deliveries have not been an issue.  Racing offshore is the challenge

2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Are you talking the 1 person leg or the 2 person leg?

Double handed class in regular Newport Bermuda Race 

1 hour ago, WoobaGooba said:

Pantaenius said no ... a race sponsor?  I'd contact the Race Chair etc. about that.

 

I brought this to their attention on the last email and waiting for a response 

Thanks

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46 minutes ago, crashtestdummy said:

Double handed deliveries have not been an issue.  Racing offshore is the challenge

Double handed class in regular Newport Bermuda Race 

I brought this to their attention on the last email and waiting for a response 

Thanks

I told Chubb we'd be racing.

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Offshore is different than inshore.  I'd be surprised if you could find coverage.  My carrier requires 5 for the race, 3 for the return.

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I was insured double handed bermuda race, german flag, pantaenius 

you might double check .

its possible that europe and the US are different markets 

 

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Pantaenius came through.  Coverage for the double handed race and preliminary 25% than AIG.  Some slight differences but overall better coverage 

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Last time I checked on this - and it was a long time ago - my insurance to race to Bermuda was about 3 times higher than cruising from Annapolis to the Caribbean with a stop for gas in Bermuda! Apparently the insurance company was very tired of racers claiming sail and rig damage from pushing the boats hard.

Not like the first time we raced to Bermuda and paid $50 extra.

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41 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Its not the racing, Its the remote and expensive repair logistics compared to  USEC, Bahamas, Caribbean, etc 

Disagree. If I can cruise to Bermuda and then the Caribbean, then the logistics are just as bad as racing to Bermuda. 

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Let me repeat - my agent specifically told me it was the *race* that was the issue. This may not be true now in 2018 or for every company, but they specifically told me that they had a lot of claims from RACERS and would charge less to cruise there.

YMMV

* edit - I have spent a lot of time in the Bahamas and can think of places with logistics 10,000 times worse than Bermuda.

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"It is with much regret that we inform you that our Underwriters are no longer prepared to offer cover for American or Canadian registered or owned vessels unless they are permanently sailing within European waters. Cover cannot be provided even in European waters if the yacht is used for charter or yachts requiring third party liability cover only. These restrictions apply to any new applications for Yacht Insurance. This decision has been made because of the potential additional costs under US and Canadian legislation."

That's an email I got from them yesterday. I was just shopping for quotes to see if I could save a few bucks.

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1 hour ago, Not Nice said:

"It is with much regret that we inform you that our Underwriters are no longer prepared to offer cover for American or Canadian registered or owned vessels unless they are permanently sailing within European waters. Cover cannot be provided even in European waters if the yacht is used for charter or yachts requiring third party liability cover only. These restrictions apply to any new applications for Yacht Insurance. This decision has been made because of the potential additional costs under US and Canadian legislation."

That's an email I got from them yesterday. I was just shopping for quotes to see if I could save a few bucks.

To be clear, that is a Pantaenius email you received yesterday?

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13 minutes ago, ryley said:

To be clear, that is a Pantaenius email you received yesterday?

This is very common.  Americans are difficult to insure .

most companies will not accept US flags, US crews

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1 minute ago, slug zitski said:

This is very common.  Americans are difficult to insure .

most companies will not accept US flags, US crews

I'm currently covered under them on one of my boats, that's why I was asking. The other is covered under Markel, but I've been a big fan of Pantaenius, so I'm sorry to see them ditching the American market. Interestingly, they still show up on their website as "Best American Yacht Insurance Company."

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It has to do with crew liabilty , injury,.......Jones Act 

i dont know the Canadian Flag 

interesting that whenever I race in the US ,  I am asked to sign a paper that  protects the owner if I am injured 

you should call the insurance  and ask...its possible that you only need additional coverage for the  event 

 

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18 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

 

Zits,   Now you are talking bullshit 

Watch your foul mouth little boy 

 

 

IMG_8345.PNG

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Slugger may be off in the details, but I have read over and over being a USA citizen is the kiss of death as far as finding employment on any non USA flagged ship or boat. Apparently we collectively have been world famous for being very injury-prone and litigious for decades :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, ryley said:

To be clear, that is a Pantaenius email you received yesterday?

Yes, sorry I did not make that clear

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It isn't JUST the per-hour wage. Injure an (insert rude nickname for some 3rd world national here) and you can basically heave them over the side where convenient. Injure an American and welcome to lawyer hell.

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Call Total Dollar ask for Arthur or Andrew, they will hold you b y the hand and take care of all your needs

516-833-1566

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17 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

No doubt we are more litigious but  much of the job placement is also due to non USA crew wages being far less expensive.  

 

 

In addition the  yacht owner who pays an American must comply with  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act

compliance is complex, expensive and makes Americans Toxic Internationally 

banks will not handle Americans . 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-law-that-makes-u-s-expats-toxic-1444330827

 

IMG_8346.PNG

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I just read this...

 

crew, female, yacht in Florida, american flag.  Sexual assault 

the owner and insurance company had to pay out 70 million the settle the case 

 

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