RumLine

2018 American Yacht Club Spring Series

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1 hour ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Interesting the primary sponsor is a powerboat manufacturer  

Is there a Predicted Log division? 

Believe it or not, Hinckley has made a few nice sailboats over the past 90 years.  They also have a number of yards along the East Coast that service all sorts of boats.

Someone should tell Rolex to start producing sailboats or stop sponsoring events.

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Numbers are looking very light with a little under a month  to go...

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3 hours ago, RumLine said:

Numbers are looking very light with a little under a month  to go...

DEAD!

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36 minutes ago, jesposito said:

DEAD!

You may be right.

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32 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Maybe a Snowboard Division would bump up the numbers?

You might be right

I think with the cold March and the snow, not many have thought about sailing.

Either that or more sailors have bought bikes and are going to Battenkill on April 28;)

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Numbers are looking a little better now...still light.

 

If you're not coming this year, but have in the past few years, what could the event chairs do to get you back next year?

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On 4/16/2018 at 8:41 AM, RumLine said:

If you're not coming this year, but have in the past few years, what could the event chairs do to get you back next year?

I've done more or less 30 AYC Spring Series;  I'm not coming this year for reasons having nothing to do with AYC, the regatta format, or the weather.

But since you asked,  here is my 2 cents:

There are a lot of regattas from April through October on Long Island Sound.  To maximize participation, the IRC Class and One-Design Classes generally do not allow over-lapping regattas in the same geographic vicinity.  The PHRF Class could be a little more organized in this area: perhaps one solution to improve season regatta participation would be to encourage yacht clubs to self-limit the number of regattas they host each summer.  If a club has a multi-weekend regatta in the spring, then allow a different yacht club to host a milti-weekend regatta in the fall.  Organized the schedule such that Single Day qualifying regattas, that fall on the same weekends are from the same harbor, so boats will tend to do both days, even if it is different host clubs.

Yacht Clubs are very proactive recruiting boats to come to their regatta, but aren't as energetic when it comes to encouraging club member boats to reciprocate by attending other yacht club regattas that may not be as big or high profile – that's like having a baseball team and saying, we're only going to play home games, and the world series.

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On 2018-04-16 at 8:41 AM, RumLine said:

If you're not coming this year, but have in the past few years, what could the event chairs do to get you back next year?

Nothing to do with maximizing racer participation, but in the interest of professionalism the committee who drafted the NoR should learn the difference between PRO and RO.

Alternatively, for consistency they should revise paragraph 14 so that each class will be awarded three first place prizes rather than first, second and third. :rolleyes: Everybody’s a winner!

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9 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Nothing to do with maximizing racer participation, but in the interest of professionalism the committee who drafted the NoR should learn the difference between PRO and RO.

Alternatively, for consistency they should revise paragraph 14 so that each class will be awarded three first place prizes rather than first, second and third. :rolleyes: Everybody’s a winner!

Yeah, just like local town kids sports, where they don't keep score.

So when these kids get to high school where they do keep score the kids get depressed and turn to drugs when their teams suck.

 

How about not charging for a mooring to keep the boat at host club's regatta.

Between the 4 weekends of spring and fall, with entry fee and mooring fees for the 2 events, food and drinks on the boat, you are  looking at $1000.

That doesn't include a round of drinks each day  at the club after racing and a dinner each weekend.

The average PHRF boat does not see the fun it it all and more.

Plus Bill is right, to many conflicting, overlapping events 

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Drove through Mamaroneck yesterday, awful lot of boats still on the hard.

BSP is gonna make a great YRALIS Scheduler next season! Once you assume that role Bill, you will learn that the YRA does not pick and choose who can run what on any given weekend. While the scheduler does their honest best to avoid conflicts or negotiate overlap , essentially that is the privy of the individual clubs as to when they hold their regattas.

Way back when it was suggested that WLIS be parsed into 5 or 6 regions and then provide the member clubs some guidelines that would try and avoid adjacent regions hosting events on competing weekends. The theory being that with the exception of the bigger more marquee events, that boats from say City Island or Manhasset and boats from say Port Jeff or Blackrock don't participate in the same regattas. IMO that would help a good deal in boosting participation. Another suggestion was to do away with Qualifying Events in favor of a criteria that if met would have any event be a qualifier for the YRALIS Seasonal Awards. The theory that boats would gravitate to the better run events instead of feeling beholden to participate in events solely based on the  which are deemed qualifiers. A cream rises to the top sort of theory.

American specific, what about awarding Best Club Effort trophies/team trophies? That would encourage clubs to put together a team.

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People have been giving the organizers of Spring and Fall series advice and feedback privately and in these threads for a decade now. There is no evidence that such input has been heard or responded to, and no evidence of any willingness to stoop to taking advice from the unwashed masses on Sailing Anarchy. 

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3 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

People have been giving the organizers of Spring and Fall series advice and feedback privately and in these threads for a decade now. There is no evidence that such input has been heard or responded to, and no evidence of any willingness to stoop to taking advice from the unwashed masses on Sailing Anarchy. 

Great point

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And like, while John is an imperfect messenger, he’s a good example. He has been making a lot of the same points every year and has a PHRF boat that participated regularly but is now sitting in his driveway in April rather than sailing. 

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45 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

People have been giving the organizers of Spring and Fall series advice and feedback privately and in these threads for a decade now. There is no evidence that such input has been heard or responded to, and no evidence of any willingness to stoop to taking advice from the unwashed masses on Sailing Anarchy. 

the beer is STILL foamy and warm

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26 minutes ago, dacapo said:

the beer is STILL foamy and warm

And gone when the slow boats get in

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

And like, while John is an imperfect messenger, he’s a good example. He has been making a lot of the same points every year and has a PHRF boat that participated regularly but is now sitting in his driveway in April rather than sailing. 

I know my delivery sucks, most of the time

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7 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

BSP is gonna make a great YRALIS Scheduler next season!

You saide I coude do that nexte yeare!

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6 hours ago, jesposito said:

I know my delivery sucks, most of the time

Dointe be so harde on youselfe, you gette teh messagge accrosse.......                    :)

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14 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Dointe be so harde on youselfe, you gette teh messagge accrosse.......                    :)

I ALWAYS get my message across;)

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Snaggletooth said:

You saide I coude do that nexte yeare!

You can BSP doesn't like to serve! It is a lot of work. There is this whole database you have to update and maintain (this only got developed a few years back, before that it was a complete nightmare!). That in of itself is a huge task as in the offseason and with outgoing flag officers being less than responsive and incoming flag officers not yet known, it is a bit of a challenge. Takes a good long while before you have the ability to reach those you need to reach..... next season's decision makers.

Then you have to contact all the clubs and ask when they intend to run their events. Mostly you just change the dates and try and keep the same schedule as the prior year...... in theory. You publish and disseminate a provisional schedule (first of like a dozen) and ask for feedback. You might hear back from 3-4 clubs out of the 62 member clubs. In reality there are always clubs looking to move their event a weekend earlier or later, or a moonlight race or two that need to be coordinated with the phases of the moon to be run when it is full. But they can't address that until their  new board convenes and makes their decisions on such things. Then the negotiation starts trying to get the clubs to play nice and not crap on one another's event. Finally you end up sending out your final e-mail telling the clubs unless you hear back from them in 72 hours, the schedule will be published as is as the YRALIS Year Book deadline has arrived. That usually gets a few more edits or updates. 

And just like the ALIR you swear that you will never-ever do this again..... and just like the ALIR the next year rolls around and Mr. President calls and asks if you can do it just one more year. And just like the ALIR you smile and say "Sure, anything I can do to help!"

So send me your contact info Snaggie and I will be sure to get it to the powers that be.

 

And now it is time to go sailing. Hope you all enjoy the season. We went out yesterday and worked on rig tune and prepped the boat some. Time to get in the hunt for silverware.

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49 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

And just like the ALIR you swear that you will never-ever do this again..... and just like the ALIR the next year rolls around and Mr. President calls and asks if you can do it just one more year. And just like the ALIR you smile and say "Sure, anything I can do to help!"

there has never been a more truer statement

 

https://yachtscoring.com/current_event_entries.cfm?eID=4589

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4 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Really?

Two words.

Warner Wolf.

WW is dead

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

WW is dead

let's go to the video tape..............

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21 minutes ago, dacapo said:

let's go to the video tape..............

No, he's dead, like Mini Me 

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I will participate.

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24 minutes ago, EastCoastHustle said:

Also in, late reg. like many others. Not looking so dead.

No, he wase sayen g thst Wernere Wolfe sock ist deade.

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One wonders what the RC is going to do with the PHRF class when they've implemented a rating limit of 115 which excludes two boats which have entered already and belong to longtime supporters of the event?

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47 minutes ago, Robyn Banxx said:

One wonders what the RC is going to do with the PHRF class when they've implemented a rating limit of 115 which excludes two boats which have entered already and belong to longtime supporters of the event?

Check the scratch sheet again, I think the RC was a step ahead of you

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52 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

72 entries doesn't look so bad; is that the norm?

Lowest #s since Spring 2013, but not as bad as it was looking a month ago.

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The glaring light is in the phrf fleet. No boat rates above 99....has everyone given up on older (slower) boats?

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Ahhh phrf limit. Seems like a good way to increase participation 

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and just to make things more inane the distance races are scored using ORR - unless a boat is doing Bermuda who has an ORR cert??

way to encourage participation - love to know why IRC certs couldn't be used...

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5 hours ago, adrianl said:

and just to make things more inane the distance races are scored using ORR - unless a boat is doing Bermuda who has an ORR cert??

way to encourage participation - love to know why IRC certs couldn't be used...

I don’t know the answer to your question, but it’s the same in too many other places. Looking at the entries, this is mostly just a Jfest, and then a handful of random boats. There’s just too many rating rules. It’s one more layer of complexity that makes it easier for an owner to say “I’m done, that Sea Ray over there is looking pretty sweet”. 

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1 hour ago, sunseeker said:

There’s just too many rating rules. 

Yup. PHRF on LIS is making a push to be more open and fair. NYYC going one design with 40+ boats ordered worldwide already.

 

IRC for buoy racing on LIS has had its day. 

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9 hours ago, adrianl said:

and just to make things more inane the distance races are scored using ORR - unless a boat is doing Bermuda who has an ORR cert??

way to encourage participation - love to know why IRC certs couldn't be used...

IRC is dying, in part, because it's not a good rule..., and PHRF is a mess

sailboat racing would be much better with more focus on OD classes - a new version of the J/44, complete with class sails for OD racing, - would be a great thing. something like the XP44...

but, if you are going to race under a rule.., you might as well use a good one.., and ORR is, in principle, a better rule than IRC

Personally.., i would prefer to see a move to ORC, with full performance curve scoring. ORC is very similar to ORR, but the organization is better, and I like the greater transparency.

 

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58 minutes ago, us7070 said:

IRC is dying, in part, because it's not a good rule..., and PHRF is a mess

sailboat racing would be much better with more focus on OD classes - a new version of the J/44, complete with class sails for OD racing, - would be a great thing. something like the XP44...

but, if you are going to race under a rule.., you might as well use a good one.., and ORR is, in principle, a better rule than IRC

Personally.., i would prefer to see a move to ORC, with full performance curve scoring. ORC is very similar to ORR, but the organization is better, and I like the greater transparency.

 

Probably the thing to do is group boats by size and sailing characteristics. Then score that fleet using PHRF, ORR, IRC, ORC and other variants of those rules. That way everyone is sure to get a trophy. Then everyone can brag about how great their rule is and what how awesome they are.

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1 hour ago, us7070 said:

IRC is dying, in part, because it's not a good rule...,

just to qualify this statement...

IRC is an okay rule for rating boats designed to that rule

It is not a good rule to rate a class of widely varying boat types, like one typically sees in regattas in the USA

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52 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Do you know how many new 44 foot cruiser/racers suitable for one design w/l racing have been sold in the USA in the last year?  

 

 

probably none, or nearly none...

but the beauty of the J/44 is that it's suitable for quite a lot more than OD W/L racing

I think if J/Boats had introduced something like the XP/44, say 4 or 5 years ago, and marketed it as a modern J/44 OD class.., capable of W/L racing.., Bermuda.., family cruising.., it would have been successful in new england.., and they'd  have an OD start for Bermuda. 

 

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2 minutes ago, us7070 said:

probably none, or nearly none...

but the beauty of the J/44 is that it's suitable for quite a lot more than OD W/L racing

I think if J/Boats had introduced something like the XP/44, say 4 or 5 years ago, and marketed it as a modern J/44 OD class.., capable of W/L racing.., Bermuda.., family cruising.., it would have been successful in new england.., and they'd  have an OD start for Bermuda. 

 

I think they call that the 121. They know they own the w/l market with the 70, and people are done trying to line up 10-12 crew, and paying for everything that goes along with that. Besides, as someone said above the IC 37 is the new thing, and that might actually be sustainable.

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1 minute ago, sunseeker said:

I think they call that the 121

maybe.., i don't think it will fill the role of the J/44 - in particular, i don't think the OD W/L racing will happen.., nor the cruising.., but we'll see...

J/44 has 8 boats registered for OD W/L racing at AYC - nearly 30 years after the boat was designed! that's a huge success...

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10 minutes ago, sunseeker said:

they own the w/l market with the 70, and people are done trying to line up 10-12 crew, and paying for everything that goes along with that.

i could have said the same thing in 1989 when the J/44 came out - the J/24 was a few years old.., and had huge numbers

there is no shortage of money today...

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4 minutes ago, us7070 said:

i could have said the same thing in 1989 when the J/44 came out - the J/24 was a few years old.., and had huge numbers

there is no shortage of money today...

Lots of boat types had huge numbers in 1989 and there was far more rating rule racing and bigger one design fleets. Things have contracted seriously since then, and not many people were being paid to sail in ‘89. Very different times.

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20 hours ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

That's the Anti Espo Rule. Keep him and his bicycle off the lawn and in da Bronx. 

My boat rates 114, I'm all set, if I wanted to sail;)

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4 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Probably the thing to do is group boats by size and sailing characteristics. Then score that fleet using PHRF, ORR, IRC, ORC and other variants of those rules. That way everyone is sure to get a trophy. Then everyone can brag about how great their rule is and what how awesome they are.

You need to have enough entries to do that

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41 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

You would be 117 with a weight credit now that those 2 fatsos are no longer on the crew list.  

Only one Fatso has been guillotined  off the boat, he's busy optimizing MORC boats to go slower,  the other makes guest appearances when in from FL.

 

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19 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Does he bring new sails when he makes those guest appearances?

No, he hasn't in about 5 years, he's retired living on a fixed budget, golfing every dayB)

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On 4/22/2018 at 7:52 AM, BillDBastard said:

You can BSP doesn't like to serve! It is a lot of work. There is this whole database you have to update and maintain (this only got developed a few years back, before that it was a complete nightmare!). That in of itself is a huge task as in the offseason and with outgoing flag officers being less than responsive and incoming flag officers not yet known, it is a bit of a challenge. Takes a good long while before you have the ability to reach those you need to reach..... next season's decision makers.

Then you have to contact all the clubs and ask when they intend to run their events. Mostly you just change the dates and try and keep the same schedule as the prior year...... in theory. You publish and disseminate a provisional schedule (first of like a dozen) and ask for feedback. You might hear back from 3-4 clubs out of the 62 member clubs. In reality there are always clubs looking to move their event a weekend earlier or later, or a moonlight race or two that need to be coordinated with the phases of the moon to be run when it is full. But they can't address that until their  new board convenes and makes their decisions on such things. Then the negotiation starts trying to get the clubs to play nice and not crap on one another's event. Finally you end up sending out your final e-mail telling the clubs unless you hear back from them in 72 hours, the schedule will be published as is as the YRALIS Year Book deadline has arrived. That usually gets a few more edits or updates. 

And just like the ALIR you swear that you will never-ever do this again..... and just like the ALIR the next year rolls around and Mr. President calls and asks if you can do it just one more year. And just like the ALIR you smile and say "Sure, anything I can do to help!"

So send me your contact info Snaggie and I will be sure to get it to the powers that be.

 

And now it is time to go sailing. Hope you all enjoy the season. We went out yesterday and worked on rig tune and prepped the boat some. Time to get in the hunt for silverware.

never a truuer word was said. You can try your hand at it next year if you like. 

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6 hours ago, jesposito said:

No, he hasn't in about 5 years, he's retired living on a fixed budget, golfing every dayB)

 

A good friend who has been retired from the Us Postal Service for many years, likes to say.....

"I'm on a fixed income; fixed pretty good!!" 

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On 4/27/2018 at 1:44 PM, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Didn't he represent Bill Cosby?

If he represented Bill Cosby, Cosby wouldn't have been guilty.;)

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7 minutes ago, RumLine said:

If anyone is looking for a tender, looks like the Coastal Queen could be yours for a price.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1928/Custom-Chesapeake-Bay-Oyster-Buy-Boat-3195667

 

Nice motor yacht!  But, if B O A T stands for Break Out Another Thousand, then....

 

W O O D stand for Wads Of Outrageous Dough!!

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Was on that boat 40 years ago as a teen.  We went snorkling off Key Largo. Beautiful boat.  

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Gotta give kudos to the South Course RC.  they got 11 races off despite some very shifty conditions.  I really didn't think the last race of the series was gonna happen.

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18 hours ago, CrushDigital said:

Gotta give kudos to the South Course RC.  they got 11 races off despite some very shifty conditions.  I really didn't think the last race of the series was gonna happen.

But were they quality races?

AYC is famous for quantity not quality;)

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17 minutes ago, Expatriated said:

Yes. The south course race committee did a great job overall. 

Glad to hear that!

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On 5/7/2018 at 11:38 AM, mustang__1 said:

a rousing day of race

How were the temper tantrums from a certain crew member on the second weekend?

--Matt

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6 hours ago, egon said:

How were the temper tantrums from a certain crew member on the second weekend?

--Matt

you must be meaning Left Hook................ ;-)

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9 hours ago, egon said:

How were the temper tantrums from a certain crew member on the second weekend?

--Matt

nah he was alright. 

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3 hours ago, dacapo said:

you must be meaning Left Hook................ ;-)

does he still post here?

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44 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

does he still post here?

Who knows.  LH has not graced us with his presence in a while.

However, he was proud of a new sock puppet and its post count a few months ago.  I don't know why someone would be proud of a sock puppet, that's right up there with winning an argument on the internet.

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4 hours ago, mustang__1 said:

does he still post here?

howe do you notte no?                         :)

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55 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

howe do you notte no?                         :)

 

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8 hours ago, mustang__1 said:

nah he was alright. 

You were on the XP?

Who was calling tactics and where did your transom door go?

You can PM me if bashful.

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1 hour ago, BillDBastard said:

You can PM me if bashful.

WFT?                                                     :)

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6 hours ago, CrushDigital said:

I thought this all got resolved on the lawn

Thinges thet happende on foamey beere lawne ist suppoeste to staye on foamey beere lawne.                                    :)

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:55 PM, Snaggletooth said:

WFT?                                                     :)

WTF, WTF??

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On 5/9/2018 at 5:34 PM, BillDBastard said:

You were on the XP?

Who was calling tactics and where did your transom door go?

You can PM me if bashful.

http://www.americanyc.org/documents/10197/656090/AYC+Day+1+Phantom+Stern+XXX.jpeg/85ad32c3-5ad8-4100-b385-28a813be89d6?version=1.0&t=1525196402000&imagePreview=1

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