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Larry's AC50 Circus

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4 hours ago, mfluder said:

Try telling our friend Stingray that. He seems to think the faster boat lost AC35.

The only thing the cheaters were faster than were these Bermuda locals..1406253700_BermudaTurtles.jpg.4d21509035622c22255dd860d5ce53a0.jpg

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22 hours ago, random said:

Hey SS, it's fucking hard to beat cheats, really hard.

Weird. Oracle was pinged for cheating prior to the actual cup, in a different boat, not in the cup itself. The only effect it had on the AC proper was to cause the event to run for 2 more races than it otherwise would have.

ETNZ got beaten 11 wins to 8. Once the Oracle team learned to sail their boat, it was clearly faster by a long way. 7 straight wins faster. Even when ENTZ won the start, it was still easily beaten.

You can bleat about cheating all you like, but it was irrelevant to the overall result.

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4 hours ago, RobG said:

Weird. Oracle was pinged for cheating prior to the actual cup, in a different boat, not in the cup itself. The only effect it had on the AC proper was to cause the event to run for 2 more races than it otherwise would have.

ETNZ got beaten 11 wins to 8. Once the Oracle team learned to sail their boat, it was clearly faster by a long way. 7 straight wins faster. Even when ENTZ won the start, it was still easily beaten.

You can bleat about cheating all you like, but it was irrelevant to the overall result.

I agree with you but Man, you just poked the autistic kid in the class. 

Yeah, we’ve all done it but it’s a bad idea to set the retard off hey, let’s just give him a few free passes. 

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On 8/4/2018 at 9:00 PM, Terry Hollis said:

The America's cup managed the first 100 years without sponsors or spectators so if New Zealand can put up a team the others only need a collection of billionaires to compete, although BAR seems to manage.  Come to think of it we have NYYC and Italy backed by billionaires versus BAR and ETNZ backed by sponsors, who would you favour to win?

Not NYYC.

I would favor BAR which has plenty of relevant talent + backing from a first generation billionaire.

I would favor ETNZ which has incredible relevant talent + backing from a nation of fanatical delusional fans

I wouldnt know anything about Italy other than the food is very good.

I wish I could favor an American team but it seems oddly out of step in terms of the talent needed to win on a foiling monohull and is backed by wealthy TP52 owners who are providing a great and inspirational entry but do they want to honor loyal friends or do they want to win? 

Make no mistake, Jim Ratcliffe and Ben Ainslie want to win and they will take whatever decisions they need to take in order to win.  Make no mistake Grant Dalton, Burling and Tuke intend to defend and retain the cup, and they will take whatever decisions they need to take in order to succeed.  The Italians will put on an elegant challenge. The NYYC will put on an honorable challenge.  But my money is on "determination to win".

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13 hours ago, RobG said:

Weird. Oracle was pinged for cheating 

[Snip]

You can bleat about cheating all you like, but it was irrelevant to the overall result.

I'll bite...

Except the result was from the same team that had just demonstrated they would cheat to win.

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3 hours ago, barfy said:

Except the result was from the same team that had just demonstrated they would cheat to win.

Except what? I guess Friday the 13th of September, 2013 is forever etched in your memory. Everyone remembers where they were on that day, when ETNZ should have won but wuz robbed… by a bunch of bloody cheats! Who played fair! Oh the irony!

Was karma on holiday? :)

 

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

I'll bite...

Except the result was from the same team that had just demonstrated they would cheat to win.

except the cheating in the ACWS was done by a few guys in the sailing/shore team, not exactly an executive decision.

the weight in the kingpost was the same as a crew member moving forwards 10cm and could of been acheived with a few more coats of paint and some decals.

a spade's a spade, they cheated, but is it really such a big deal? at least it wasn't an entire illegal bowsprit...

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

except the cheating in the ACWS was done by a few guys in the sailing/shore team, not exactly an executive decision.

the weight in the kingpost was the same as a crew member moving forwards 10cm and could of been acheived with a few more coats of paint and some decals.

a spade's a spade, they cheated, but is it really such a big deal? at least it wasn't an entire illegal bowsprit...

Guess you're right, they seem to have had a pretty good team culture the whole way through - from the 45's in the world series all the way to BDA.....

image.thumb.jpeg.0bd9a33c444df60538128da3e7d7a8b4.jpeg

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Just now, Roota said:

Guess you're right, they seem to have had a pretty good team culture the whole way through - from the 45's in the world series all the way to BDA.....

 image.thumb.jpeg.0bd9a33c444df60538128da3e7d7a8b4.jpeg

pouring out NZ flags from their bag? it was probably put in there as a prank anyway.

what's your point? looked like just a bit of fun.

 

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13 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Make no mistake Grant Dalton, Burling and Tuke intend to defend and retain the cup

Funny how the non NZer who was most responsible for winning the AC is rarely mentioned, or doesn't it fit with the story that the skipper was from Australia ;)

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13 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Funny how the non NZer who was most responsible for winning the AC is rarely mentioned, or doesn't it fit with the story that the skipper was from Australia ;)

What's that got to do with anything?? The Design Team manager was/is English, the tea lady was Russian, the toilet cleaner was a yank...your point??

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Just now, Indio said:

What's that got to do with anything?? The Design Team manager was/is English, the tea lady was Russian, the toilet cleaner was a yank...your point??

The point is that Glenn Ashby was probably the biggest influence on the team and he is constantly missed out of the comments while Dalton, Burling and Tuke get the credit. Ashby was the one who committed the team to the bikes, he came up with the way the wing was to work (he trimmed it just like he trims his A Class) and he ran the sailing team. It seems rather self serving and nationalistic to keep dropping him off the list of big names or to equate him to the tea lady like you just did.

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10 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

The point is that Glenn Ashby was probably the biggest influence on the team and he is constantly missed out of the comments while Dalton, Burling and Tuke get the credit. Ashby was the one who committed the team to the bikes, he came up with the way the wing was to work (he trimmed it just like he trims his A Class) and he ran the sailing team. It seems rather self serving and nationalistic to keep dropping him off the list of big names or to equate him to the tea lady like you just did.

Only in your pathetic little mind. The people who matter - Kiwis - acknowledge the role Ashby played in the ETNZ team design and sailing programme since AC34*

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5 hours ago, inebriated said:

except the cheating in the ACWS was done by a few guys in the sailing/shore team, not exactly an executive decision.

the weight in the kingpost was the same as a crew member moving forwards 10cm and could of been acheived with a few more coats of paint and some decals.

a spade's a spade, they cheated, but is it really such a big deal? at least it wasn't an entire illegal bowsprit...

Lol,

You are completely correct.

Just a little bit pregnant.

Just a quick chat about Russian adoption.

Rotflmho

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6 hours ago, inebriated said:

except the cheating in the ACWS was done by a few guys in the sailing/shore team, not exactly an executive decision.

the weight in the kingpost was the same as a crew member moving forwards 10cm and could of been acheived with a few more coats of paint and some decals.

a spade's a spade, they cheated, but is it really such a big deal? at least it wasn't an entire illegal bowsprit...

If so irrelevant, why have new components designed, engineered and manufactured? surely moving forwards 10cm is easier than that.

 

Cheating is cheating.

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6 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

If so irrelevant, why have new components designed, engineered and manufactured?

They didn't. The replacement was a standard OD kingpost, which was then filled with a gunk/lead mixture. 

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22 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

They didn't. The replacement was a standard OD kingpost, which was then filled with a gunk/lead mixture. 

Over length kingpost isn't standard OD equipment and needs to be made. Same goes for aluminium tang fitting with over long insert.

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It wasn't over-length. It was over-weight.

Think about it. It's an OD component sitting out in plain sight. How the hell would you plan to get away with using an over-length kingpost? It was an OD component illegally stuffed with lead and gunk. The idea was to increase bow-down trim, which was apparently fast.

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Just now, barfy said:

Cheating team in acws competed in ac match.

Fact

the cheating individuals were punished accordingly

fact

oracle went on to acheive the biggest and best comeback in sailing history, arguably sporting history with a bit of help from ETNZ's stagnate and outdated design and systems

fact

5 hours ago, Roota said:

Guess you're right, they seem to have had a pretty good team culture the whole way through - from the 45's in the world series all the way to BDA.....

image.thumb.jpeg.0bd9a33c444df60538128da3e7d7a8b4.jpeg

and how is pouring NZ flags out of a bag so unsportsmanlike? it was probably a prank pulled on one of the sailrs who took part in the legendary cup match which was AC34

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Lol,

You are completely correct.

Just a little bit pregnant.

Just a quick chat about Russian adoption.

Rotflmho

lolololololol

what the fuck is that even supposed to mean

you know i am right and yet cannot come up with any valid argument against

ROLVBHGCYTVNVFUYHVMVFYU whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean

nobody actually says that shit anymore, get back to 2009

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7 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

The point is that Glenn Ashby was probably the biggest influence on the team and he is constantly missed out of the comments while Dalton, Burling and Tuke get the credit. Ashby was the one who committed the team to the bikes, he came up with the way the wing was to work (he trimmed it just like he trims his A Class) and he ran the sailing team. It seems rather self serving and nationalistic to keep dropping him off the list of big names or to equate him to the tea lady like you just did.

It was me who didnt include Glenn when I referred to the importance of the "determination to win" in the forthcoming America's Cup. I am a HUGE admirer of Glenn Ashby and I do not underestimate for a moment the critical role he played in winning the last AC.

My main point was comparing the ruthless determination to win of Jim Ratcliffe and Grant Dalton compared to the more convivial approach of Hap Fauth and Doug Devos.    Ratcliffe and Dalts decisions are based purely on winning. As an illustration Dalts dropped Dean Barker because he felt it was necessary to win.  If Dalts realized that Glenn Ashby needed to retire, despite all that Glenn has done for ETNZ , Glenn would be asked to retire.  But...not for a moment do I think that Glenn actually will be retiring. Glenn mirrors Dalts winning decision philosophy and remains a driving force to win on TNZ.  Glenn will make sure that everyone on that NZ boat will be there for purely meritocratic reasons and will apply the same criteria to the decision of whether he will be on the boat or not.  In contrast if you look at the American conjurer team, it is a bunch of "old mates" of Terry Hutchison, Devos and Fauth ....with an emphasis on "old"....largely from their TP52 campaigns. 

Why am I so critical of America Magic?   Because I am a very patriotic American and I want USA to be sending a challenge to Auckland that is going to whup you.  I want a team that reflects America's winning drive and determination and creativity and willingness to crack heads to get 'er done.  So when I read AM's mission statement:

  " We will restore the passion, values and spirit that have made the America's Cup, the oldest trophy in international sports, a legendary contest between sailors and nations."

my heart sinks.    Restoring the values and spirit of the AC is NOT going to beat the kiwis.

Right now, the oldest trophy in sports is owned by one of the newest nations....and there is a reason for that. They wanted to win it.

 

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19 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

It was me who didnt include Glenn when I referred to the importance of the "determination to win" in the forthcoming America's Cup. I am a HUGE admirer of Glenn Ashby and I do not underestimate for a moment the critical role he played in winning the last AC.

My main point was comparing the ruthless determination to win of Jim Ratcliffe and Grant Dalton compared to the more convivial approach of Hap Fauth and Doug Devos.    Ratcliffe and Dalts decisions are based purely on winning. As an illustration Dalts dropped Dean Barker because he felt it was necessary to win.  If Dalts realized that Glenn Ashby needed to retire, despite all that Glenn has done for ETNZ , Glenn would be asked to retire.  But...not for a moment do I think that Glenn actually will be retiring. Glenn mirrors Dalts winning decision philosophy and remains a driving force to win on TNZ.  Glenn will make sure that everyone on that NZ boat will be there for purely meritocratic reasons and will apply the same criteria to the decision of whether he will be on the boat or not.  In contrast if you look at the American conjurer team, it is a bunch of "old mates" of Terry Hutchison, Devos and Fauth ....with an emphasis on "old"....largely from their TP52 campaigns. 

Why am I so critical of America Magic?   Because I am a very patriotic American and I want USA to be sending a challenge to Auckland that is going to whup you.  I want a team that reflects America's winning drive and determination and creativity and willingness to crack heads to get 'er done.  So when I read AM's mission statement:

  " We will restore the passion, values and spirit that have made the America's Cup, the oldest trophy in international sports, a legendary contest between sailors and nations."

my heart sinks.    Restoring the values and spirit of the AC is NOT going to beat the kiwis.

Right now, the oldest trophy in sports is owned by one of the newest nations....and there is a reason for that. They wanted to win it.

 

Yeah you make valid points. Hell they beat Oracle easily despite so many advantages Oracle had. I made this exact point with regards to Team UK hiring Grant Simmer. Why would you hire the man who lost the cup? Perhaps that's harsh but perhaps it's almost along the lines of the point you make, we'll do whatever it takes to win. Team NZ go to great lenghs to think outside of the box, Oracle clearly didn't. 

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And returning to the original subject of this thread. 

Oracle USA was at its roots an American defender.  You dont get more American than Larry Ellison. The adopted son of immigrant parents who did not graduate from college....self made billionaire  the hard way by building a company that makes and sells stuff globally.  He is driven to win and he backs winner.  He backed Steve Jobs after Steve was fired from Apple. He backed Mark Hurd when Mark was fired from H-P. Both turned out to be brilliant decisions.

So he shook up the AC and brought it into the 21st century?  Thats what American entrepreneurs do. So he sought to hire the best talent in the world wherever he could find them?  Thats what American organizations do.

He lost the AC more times than he won it. But Oracle truly won the AC in San Fran in one of the greatest sporting come backs of all time,  ranking alongside the "4 days in October 2004".   

Ellision and Team Oracle USA will go down as a page turner in the history of the AC

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah you make valid points. Hell they beat Oracle easily despite so many advantages Oracle had. I made this exact point with regards to Team UK hiring Grant Simmer. Why would you hire the man who lost the cup? Perhaps that's harsh but perhaps it's almost along the lines of the point you make, we'll do whatever it takes to win. Team NZ go to great lenghs to think outside of the box, Oracle clearly didn't. 

Cross post.

I agree with your sentiment but if I can restate from my pov.

Both TNZ and Oracle demonstrated that they were prepared to think out of the box.  TNZ just went further out of the box than any other challenger and in the humble opinion of this spectator.....TNZ had an ingredient of incredible talent on the water who made the best out of the format. Plus thos transitional foils were fast!

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10 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

...

Ellision and Team Oracle USA will go down as a page turner in the history of the AC

More like a bookend in the shadow, with AC34* asterisked in perpetuity for their cheating and self-dealings in the America's Cup.

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14 hours ago, inebriated said:

the cheating individuals were punished accordingly

fact

oracle went on to acheive the biggest and best comeback in sailing history, arguably sporting history with a bit of help from ETNZ's stagnate and outdated design and systems

fact

and how is pouring NZ flags out of a bag so unsportsmanlike? it was probably a prank pulled on one of the sailrs who took part in the legendary cup match which was AC34

The flags were stolen from properties of ETNZ staff and fans who were staying in Bremuda so unsportsman like and illegal. 

 

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

More like a bookend in the shadow, with AC34* asterisked in perpetuity for their cheating and self-dealings in the America's Cup.

The real measure of a team is grace in defeat.

In every America's Cup, there is one winner and one loser.  Going back over the years, some of the losers and their fans have congratulated the winner. Others have gone home grumbling and complaining about cheating.  It will not be the first time or the last time...but history has tended to look down on the grumblers and admire the ones who lost with grace.

I leave you with the words of Harry Vanderbilt after winning the 1930 America's cup

"Uppermost in our minds is a feeling of sympathy for that grand old sportsman, Sir Thomas Lipton, with whom our relations have been so pleasant. This is perhaps his last attempt to lift the America's Cup. The ambition of a lifetime, to achieve which he has spent millions, is perhaps never to be realized. It has been our duty to shut the door in his face. In defeat lies the test of true sportsmanship, and he has proved to be a wonderful sportsman, quite the finest it has ever been our good fortune to race against."

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rudder_NZ said:

The flags were stolen from properties of ETNZ staff and fans who were staying in Bremuda so unsportsman like and illegal. 

 

ah, jeez

not cool at all then

just to clarify (not backtracking) i don't and did not love oracle

i guess i don't hate them like some of you kiwis do but that's understandable i guess

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58 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I leave you with the words of Harry Vanderbilt after winning the 1930 America's cup

"Uppermost in our minds is a feeling of sympathy for that grand old sportsman, Sir Thomas Lipton, with whom our relations have been so pleasant. This is perhaps his last attempt to lift the America's Cup. The ambition of a lifetime, to achieve which he has spent millions, is perhaps never to be realized. It has been our duty to shut the door in his face. In defeat lies the test of true sportsmanship, and he has proved to be a wonderful sportsman, quite the finest it has ever been our good fortune to race against." 

Mr. Vanderbilt never foresaw the likes of Ellison, unlike your founding fathers and framers of your Constitution who could have devised the Emoluments restrictions with the Dotard in mind.

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30 minutes ago, Indio said:

Mr. Vanderbilt never foresaw the likes of Ellison,

Harry Vanderbilt was descended from the likes of Ellison. Cornelius Vanderbilt makes Larry look like a saint. 

Despite the  similarities between the winning defendes,  we await to see if New Zealand can rise to the standard that Tommy Lipton set for grace in defeat. 

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15 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

And returning to the original subject of this thread. 

Oracle USA was at its roots an American defender.  You dont get more American than Larry Ellison. The adopted son of immigrant parents who did not graduate from college....self made billionaire  the hard way by building a company that makes and sells stuff globally.  He is driven to win and he backs winner.  He backed Steve Jobs after Steve was fired from Apple. He backed Mark Hurd when Mark was fired from H-P. Both turned out to be brilliant decisions.

So he shook up the AC and brought it into the 21st century?  Thats what American entrepreneurs do. So he sought to hire the best talent in the world wherever he could find them?  Thats what American organizations do.

He lost the AC more times than he won it. But Oracle truly won the AC in San Fran in one of the greatest sporting come backs of all time,  ranking alongside the "4 days in October 2004".   

Ellision and Team Oracle USA will go down as a page turner in the history of the AC

Yes, that's all so American because outside of America, there is no such thing as a self made billionaire. Outside of America, no one ever makes any money, they never sell anything or organise modern sports events, and they hate winning and never do it. 

 

 

 

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What does rehashing " the greatest comeback in the history of sport " have to do with the thread topic.

The past few pages have been dealing with an entirely different event and things from the past .

This tread is pertaining to the future. 

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50 minutes ago, maxmini said:

What does rehashing " the greatest comeback in the history of sport " have to do with the thread topic.

The past few pages have been dealing with an entirely different event and things from the past .

This tread is pertaining to the future. 

Our Kiwi friends are going to be bitter about that for a long time I guess.

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Just now, barfy said:

Where do you get 50%?

They were thrown under the bus.

Sailor x?

link or it didn't happen

Just now, barfy said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonya_Harding

Just a little bit of cheating...didn't make a difference. Just forget about it.

nobody is saying it isn't bad, just that it is irrelivant to the cup match itself in every way but name

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40 minutes ago, barfy said:

Where do you get 50%?

They were thrown under the bus.

Sailor x?

 

 

The jury found that de Ridder instructed Bryce Ruthenberg, a rigger from Australia, and boat builder Andrew Walker to add the lead weight. All three men were expelled from the regatta. Sailor Matt Mitchell, a grinder from New Zealand, has been suspended for four races. "

 

So it looks like one Dutch fellow, one Aussie and two from NZ .

That looks like 50% to me .

On a side note what do you think Larry did to persuade those two to give up their NZ sporting ways we hear so much about and throw those five lbs of lead around ? 

Threats of bodily harm or perhaps the kidnapping of their favorite ewe ? 

Inquiring minds want to know :) 

 

 

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2 hours ago, maxmini said:

Out of curiosity did they ever let  Andrew Walker and Matt Mitchell. back in New Zealand or are they banned for life  due to being 50% of the " cheat " crew? 

Oraclecheating.jpg.8f7e41b36d32a89431e732e22945f18f.jpg

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11 hours ago, random said:

Oraclecheating.jpg.8f7e41b36d32a89431e732e22945f18f.jpg

 

That is a great photo thanks for posting . I would be smiling too f I had just accomplished " the greatest comeback in the history of sport " :) 

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54 minutes ago, maxmini said:

That is a great photo thanks for posting . I would be smiling too f I had just accomplished " the greatest comeback in the history of sport " :) 

They're just laughing at all the fools on the dock wearing Oracle T-shirts because they managed to fool them. Not only did they dupe them into believing some bollocks "comeback story" but they sucked them into wasting their hard earned money for a shitty T-shirt!

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14 hours ago, maxmini said:

 

 

The jury found that de Ridder instructed Bryce Ruthenberg, a rigger from Australia, and boat builder Andrew Walker to add the lead weight. All three men were expelled from the regatta. Sailor Matt Mitchell, a grinder from New Zealand, has been suspended for four races. "

 

So it looks like one Dutch fellow, one Aussie and two from NZ .

That looks like 50% to me .

On a side note what do you think Larry did to persuade those two to give up their NZ sporting ways we hear so much about and throw those five lbs of lead around ? 

Threats of bodily harm or perhaps the kidnapping of their favorite ewe ? 

Inquiring minds want to know :) 

 

 

Oh. I thought you meant 50% of the team were cheaters.

The cheaters were the scapegoats from a team with a pervasive cheating culture.

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17 hours ago, maxmini said:

Out of curiosity did they ever let  Andrew Walker and Matt Mitchell. back in New Zealand or are they banned for life  due to being 50% of the " cheat " crew? 

we may never know the entire "cheat crew", or at least not for another 20 years when they will not compromise their careers by going public. 

There is also the feeling that those team members named in the Rule 69 allegation may not have been alone. They are perhaps even scapegoats. The findings state: "The Jury failed to discover which individuals were responsible for all the breaches, resulting in concerns there may have been more. For example, there was evidence of a bag of lead being inserted into a king post but no evidence of who removed it or what happened to it. There were emails referring to 'fill king posts' as if there was an  intention to fill both king posts on boat BAR, but no evidence as to whether one king post was filled and emptied."

During the course of the hearing Oracle Team USA itself acknowledged that it had not found the answers to the questions arising from the 'five' incidents. They believed they had taken the required action to identify the relevant people. OTUSA's Counsel  submitted that the team had tried to get answers but there was one person who should know the answer. He submitted the person was 'not cooperative' and they did not think they were going to get any more answers and the person was "currently suspended and will go‟. OTUSA has no plans to continue their internal investigation as they do not believe want to they can take the matter further.

Had you forgotten or just trolling?

http://www.thedailysail.com/inshore/13/65184/0/oracle-team-usa-fined-and-penalised-for-ac-world-series-cheating

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On 8/5/2018 at 6:06 PM, mfluder said:

Curious thing is, the guy who made that bet with Me, hasn't been back since. Unless he's created SomeRandom new account lol

No i've actually been sailing a real boat and getting involved in a foiling 50ft cat circuit. not sitting there doing FA on a computer. September? i cant remember putting a date on it but i seem to remember you have nothing better to do than troll on here so i'm sure you'll find the post.

Its happening so best get ready for it. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, agk470 said:

No i've actually been sailing a real boat and getting involved in a foiling 50ft cat circuit. not sitting there doing FA on a computer. September? i cant remember putting a date on it but i seem to remember you have nothing better to do than troll on here so i'm sure you'll find the post.

Its happening so best get ready for it. 

 

 

The original bet was made with Team_GBR. He hasn't been back since. And Yes, it was the "Before the beginning of September"

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Looks like he's moved to insert his influence on another long standing sporting competition with huge history which has ruffled quite a few feathers. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/larry-ellison-davis-cup-revamp-indian-wells

https://www.tennis.com.au/news/2018/08/11/australian-tennis-legends-davis-cup-survival

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/08/davis-cup-gets-ellison-backing-federations-communicate-concerns/75870/

 

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17 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Looks like he's moved to insert his influence on another long standing sporting competition with huge history which has ruffled quite a few feathers. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/larry-ellison-davis-cup-revamp-indian-wells

https://www.tennis.com.au/news/2018/08/11/australian-tennis-legends-davis-cup-survival

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/08/davis-cup-gets-ellison-backing-federations-communicate-concerns/75870/

 

He’s been a patron of tennis for at least the past decade . 

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46 minutes ago, maxmini said:

He’s been a patron of tennis for at least the past decade . 

That's a pretty generous term for someone who simply acquires assets and then injects money into them in their attempt to 'fix' something others might suggest isn't broken...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-06-04/oracle-s-larry-ellison-plans-u-s-tennis-revival-indian-wells-growth

I get what you are saying, but I also am not sure everyone in tennis should be expected to be thankful for his splashing cash around in much the same way as he did/does in sailing. He can do what he wants, but it is not a given that this is activity is simply a positive that we should all be thankful for.

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2 hours ago, maxmini said:

He’s been a patron of tennis for at least the past decade . 

I'd be interested in hearing what your definition of "patron" is ?

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4 hours ago, monosailor said:

Word is 15-16 February 2019

racing off Sydney opera house/Bradley’s head and boats arriving mid January with potentially 5+ teams

Even using the entire harbour and ignoring Bradley's Head cutting in, the AC35 course is a fucken tight squeeze into that space - to say nothing of the significant amount of marine traffic and activity in that heavily populated area...

Apart from the population, it seems like a very compromising place to try and host a regatta for foiling cats...

accourse.jpg.6cc1ffb4122b63fa9f52d650e28272ed.jpg

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On 8/14/2018 at 5:16 PM, Flippin Out said:

I'd be interested in hearing what your definition of "patron" is ?

Well this particular bit of support for tennis started nine years ago so your a bit late in discovering his interest in the sport . There is a lot more info out there as to some of his other teninis activities if you are truly interested , google is your friend .

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/25/a-must-see-larry-ellisons-desert-tennis-palace/

and if it was just the word you were not familiar with here is what webster ( a well known dictionary )  has to say about it .

 

Definition of patron

1a a person chosen, named, or honored as a special guardian, protector, or supporter  
  • patron of the arts
b a wealthy or influential supporter of an artist or writer 
  • … the unspoken contract between artist and patron …
  •  —D. D. R. Owen
c a social or financial sponsor of a social function (such as a ball or concert)  
  • patron of the annual masked ball
2one that uses wealth or influence to help an individual, an institution, or a cause  
  • patron of the city library
3

 

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22 minutes ago, maxmini said:

Well this particular bit of support for tennis started nine years ago so your a bit late in discovering his interest in the sport . There is a lot more info out there as to some of his other teninis activities if you are truly interested , google is your friend .

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/25/a-must-see-larry-ellisons-desert-tennis-palace/

and if it was just the word you were not familiar with here is what webster ( a well known dictionary )  has to say about it .

 

Definition of patron

1a a person chosen, named, or honored as a special guardian, protector, or supporter  
  • patron of the arts
b a wealthy or influential supporter of an artist or writer 
  • … the unspoken contract between artist and patron …
  •  —D. D. R. Owen
c a social or financial sponsor of a social function (such as a ball or concert)  
  • patron of the annual masked ball
2one that uses wealth or influence to help an individual, an institution, or a cause  
  • patron of the city library
3

 

I tried all the options and each one got stuck...

1a. Neither chosen nor honoured

1b. No artists or writers to suport

1c. No social function

2.  No institution or cause, let alone no-one recognising any influence as 'help'

Building a tennis "palace" is yet to get him any real thanks from the Tennis fraternity...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Tennis_Hall_of_Fame

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1 hour ago, maxmini said:

Well this particular bit of support for tennis started nine years ago so your a bit late in discovering his interest in the sport . There is a lot more info out there as to some of his other teninis activities if you are truly interested , google is your friend .

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/25/a-must-see-larry-ellisons-desert-tennis-palace/

and if it was just the word you were not familiar with here is what webster ( a well known dictionary )  has to say about it .

 

Definition of patron

1a a person chosen, named, or honored as a special guardian, protector, or supporter  
  • patron of the arts
b a wealthy or influential supporter of an artist or writer 
  • … the unspoken contract between artist and patron …
  •  —D. D. R. Owen
c a social or financial sponsor of a social function (such as a ball or concert)  
  • patron of the annual masked ball
2one that uses wealth or influence to help an individual, an institution, or a cause  
  • patron of the city library
3

 

Geez mate, you need to relax a bit. Don't get so defensive. My interest and initial post was merely around what he's up to with regards to the Davis Cup right now and how he's upset quite a few people over it. There a real divide which is very similar to what happened with his Americas Cup involvement.

Just for the record too, I'm well aware of how long he's been involved in tennis and I also know what a patron is. But I wasn't sure that you knew when you called LE a patron of tennis. I'd say he's more of an enthusiast.

Anyway, lighten up and enjoy the rest of your day.

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8 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Even using the entire harbour and ignoring Bradley's Head cutting in, the AC35 course is a fucken tight squeeze into that space - to say nothing of the significant amount of marine traffic and activity in that heavily populated area...

Apart from the population, it seems like a very compromising place to try and host a regatta for foiling cats...

accourse.jpg.6cc1ffb4122b63fa9f52d650e28272ed.jpg

That is really tight, and that part of the harbour is super busy. There is no way you could exclude that area either - too many ferries and what not. The Super Foilers were further down the harbour on a North South axis which worked better, but even they had issues with traffic and they're much smaller than the cats. Another thing, I don't think an east west axis will work because in Feb the prevailing breeze is North East. The harbour is too narrow to do that in the planned area. To me the cats a too fast for Sydney harbour.

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5 hours ago, rh2600 said:

I tried all the options and each one got stuck...

1a. Neither chosen nor honoured

1b. No artists or writers to suport

1c. No social function

2.  No institution or cause, let alone no-one recognising any influence as 'help'

Building a tennis "palace" is yet to get him any real thanks from the Tennis fraternity...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Tennis_Hall_of_Fame

Oxford Dictionary is a bit more succinct. It also leaves less room for pedantic people to split hairs.

Patron = A Person who gives financial or other support 

Remarkably (well, remarkably f you don't understand typical patron involvement) similar to sponsor = a oerson or organisation who pays for or contributes to the costs.

So only real difference is a patron is an individual, whereas a sponsor could be individual or organisation.

Suffice to say that most high profile sports event could not exist or occur in their current form without a patron/sponsor so let's piss them all off and live in a flatter more boring sporting landscape.

SS

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6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

To me the cats a too fast for Sydney harbour.

What;s the craic round in Botany Bay?

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6 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Oxford Dictionary is a bit more succinct. It also leaves less room for pedantic people to split hairs.

Patron = A Person who gives financial or other support 

Remarkably (well, remarkably f you don't understand typical patron involvement) similar to sponsor = a oerson or organisation who pays for or contributes to the costs.

So only real difference is a patron is an individual, whereas a sponsor could be individual or organisation.

Suffice to say that most high profile sports event could not exist or occur in their current form without a patron/sponsor so let's piss them all off and live in a flatter more boring sporting landscape.

SS

Becoming reductionist to prove a point sounds pretty boring to me.

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12 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Geez mate, you need to relax a bit. Don't get so defensive. My interest and initial post was merely around what he's up to with regards to the Davis Cup right now and how he's upset quite a few people over it. There a real divide which is very similar to what happened with his Americas Cup involvement.

Just for the record too, I'm well aware of how long he's been involved in tennis and I also know what a patron is. But I wasn't sure that you knew when you called LE a patron of tennis. I'd say he's more of an enthusiast.

Anyway, lighten up and enjoy the rest of your day.

Well lets agree on an enthusiast that likes to write checks to support his interests. 

You have a good day as well :) 

 

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5 hours ago, rgeek said:

What;s the craic round in Botany Bay?

Hmmm, doubtful they'd go there. It's not nearly as picturesque as Port Jackson, plus the airport is there which might restrict drone/helicopter coverage. The more I think about it the more I wonder about the logistics of this event. Are they sailing with wings? Whose paying for the transport of them? Will they have two, as in a spare wing each? In Sydney I can't think of any one location on the harbour that could store under cover up to 10 wings? If the boats are in multiple locations then that means multiple cranes, and the higher costs associated with that. Also, to have these things on a busy Sydney harbour they're going to have to have some fairly big liability insurance - they wouldn't get the go ahead without it. I know Larry has got deep pockets, but the ROI is just not going to be there. How long will he keep footing the bills before he gets bored with it and pulls the plug? It's not adding up to me.

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Hmmm, doubtful they'd go there. It's not nearly as picturesque as Port Jackson, plus the airport is there which might restrict drone/helicopter coverage. The more I think about it the more I wonder about the logistics of this event. Are they sailing with wings? Whose paying for the transport of them? Will they have two, as in a spare wing each? In Sydney I can't think of any one location on the harbour that could store under cover up to 10 wings? If the boats are in multiple locations then that means multiple cranes, and the higher costs associated with that. Also, to have these things on a busy Sydney harbour they're going to have to have some fairly big liability insurance - they wouldn't get the go ahead without it. I know Larry has got deep pockets, but the ROI is just not going to be there. How long will he keep footing the bills before he gets bored with it and pulls the plug? It's not adding up to me.

It’s already been said it’ll be a Volvo style shore crew/support set up. So probably one or two spare wings to cover the fleet. 

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On 8/16/2018 at 9:20 PM, Horn Rock said:

That is really tight, and that part of the harbour is super busy. There is no way you could exclude that area either - too many ferries and what not. The Super Foilers were further down the harbour on a North South axis which worked better, but even they had issues with traffic and they're much smaller than the cats. Another thing, I don't think an east west axis will work because in Feb the prevailing breeze is North East. The harbour is too narrow to do that in the planned area. To me the cats a too fast for Sydney harbour.

Yes very tight however they have a full exclusion Zone being put in place similar to the Hobart Start etc. Parts of the harbour full closed down to the public. Very short race courses though

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On 5/9/2018 at 3:51 PM, Team_GBR said:

You are so confident how about this. If there is no announcement before the beginning of September, I will never post again, so long as if there is an announcement, you agree to never post again. No sock puppets etc. A simple exit and no return.How about it?

Hey, Team_GBR Its the beginning of September mate.

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2 hours ago, SomeRandom said:

Doesn't change the fact that its still happening...

Sure it is. Anyway, I thought we said we weren't going to create new profiles? And no sock puppets? And quit stalking my Facebook. Its creepy when you use my Facebook profile photo as yours on here. Ya lost the bet mate, fair and square.

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Just learnt that trials of the mofified boats will take place during November in NZ. A number of AC sailors from various teams from AC35 had bought A’s for our worlds but they are now unable to compete. It also means there are some good A’s either for sale or charter.

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4 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Just learnt that trials of the mofified boats will take place during November in NZ. A number of AC sailors from various teams from AC35 had bought A’s for our worlds but they are now unable to compete. It also means there are some good A’s either for sale or charter.

Great to hear about the positive impact LE continues to have on international competitive sailing eh... a true patron that truly cares about the sport... what a champ!

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5 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Great to hear about the positive impact LE continues to have on international competitive sailing eh... a true patron that truly cares about the sport... what a champ!

What are you on about? Are you really so bitter and deluded that you think that the date has anything to do with LE. The timetable is driven by when the boats will be ready and having enough time to make changes before the Christmas/New Year break so the boats can be packed up to be shipped in time for the first event.  

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4 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

What are you on about? Are you really so bitter and deluded that you think that the date has anything to do with LE. The timetable is driven by when the boats will be ready and having enough time to make changes before the Christmas/New Year break so the boats can be packed up to be shipped in time for the first event.  

Last time I checked LE was responsible for the F50s - and you've just said that the A-Class worlds have suffered collateral damage as a result of their schedule...

Are you really so deluded as you can't see that the existence of F50 has had a negative effect on an existing class - and if you think LE is unable to consider dates and what might be effected - then we're in a agreement - he clearly doesn't give a shit about the A-Class.

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9 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Last time I checked LE was responsible for the F50s - and you've just said that the A-Class worlds have suffered collateral damage as a result of their schedule...

Are you really so deluded as you can't see that the existence of F50 has had a negative effect on an existing class - and if you think LE is unable to consider dates and what might be effected - then we're in a agreement - he clearly doesn't give a shit about the A-Class.

you dead set must be kidding, surely your not that stupid,,,,,, surely.

i know 1 guy that may not make it to the worlds but im sure the pay packet at the 50's wont worry him :D

I know that the AC effects multiple classes by people having to choose it over other sailing. why is it any different?

 stop to think of it like this...

 

what is your job?

 

has it ever effected your ability to compete in a sailing regatta that you do not get paid to do? 

 

 going off your logic here If answer is yes than your job is negatively effecting sailing events therefor should be stopped.

 

does your boss ever check with your local sporting commitments before arranging work on a given day that clashes?

 

 going off your logic here If answer is yes than your boss is negatively effecting sailing events therefor clearly doesnt give a shit about your sporting commitments.

 

The people sailing these boats CHOOSE to do so as it is their job, Its how they pay their mortgages off, put food on the table for their families pay for the Christmas holidays, If that clashes with 20 events the holy shit welcome to LIFE!!

sailing for a very long time has been a shitfight with classes clashing, you choose a class and sail it, pretty simple,

 

Its another awesome sailing event, you lemons just dont get it. 

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There

29 minutes ago, agk470 said:

you dead set must be kidding, surely your not that stupid,,,,,, surely.

i know 1 guy that may not make it to the worlds but im sure the pay packet at the 50's wont worry him :D

I know that the AC effects multiple classes by people having to choose it over other sailing. why is it any different?

 stop to think of it like this...

 

what is your job?

 

has it ever effected your ability to compete in a sailing regatta that you do not get paid to do? 

 

 going off your logic here If answer is yes than your job is negatively effecting sailing events therefor should be stopped.

 

does your boss ever check with your local sporting commitments before arranging work on a given day that clashes?

 

 going off your logic here If answer is yes than your boss is negatively effecting sailing events therefor clearly doesnt give a shit about your sporting commitments.

 

The people sailing these boats CHOOSE to do so as it is their job, Its how they pay their mortgages off, put food on the table for their families pay for the Christmas holidays, If that clashes with 20 events the holy shit welcome to LIFE!!

sailing for a very long time has been a shitfight with classes clashing, you choose a class and sail it, pretty simple,

 

Its another awesome sailing event, you lemons just dont get it. 

That's not my point... which was mainly that anyone that thinks that LE is in this as a patron of sailing is barking up the wrong tree... when the F50s fall away, maybe the A-Class will be in a worse shape than before the F50s... plenty of things get in the way of sailing, and competing in classes, the F50 is a job like any other, but I wouldn't pretend some rich dude is somehow "doing good for sailing" because he paid me handsomely to go rum racing whilst he still cares about winning an irrelevant ego trophy instead of me going and competing at the worlds...

Good on those who will go and earn a good crust doing the F50s, but if the thinking is that there is a long term future in those boats and its worth trading in the A Class then I hope it stays fine for them....

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

anyone that thinks that LE is in this as a patron of sailing is barking up the wrong tree...

AFAIK there is only one person on SAAC who has ever expressed such an opinion.

But I'm looking forward to the AC50s, especially at this point in the AC36 cycle at which ETNZ is really doing fuck all to maintain interest or momentum.

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Great,  take the thread - and all the amazing F50 action, where someone cares :)

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

As a lot here claim that's the F50 is in direct competition with the AC it has its place here :)

You're just proving our point...

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32 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

You're just proving our point...

It's only festering in your kiwi minds. Who gives a fuck about proving a point. It's an ex-ac boat and can be here or wherever the fuck people want it to be. You cunts keep the thread alive here with your bitterness. I am guessing a billionaire doesn't have as much time to be as bitter as you fucks. 

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17 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

Just learnt that trials of the mofified boats will take place during November in NZ. A number of AC sailors from various teams from AC35 had bought A’s for our worlds but they are now unable to compete. It also means there are some good A’s either for sale or charter.

Out of where? From next month the Viaduct becomes a construction site. ETNZ moves into the Events Centre in October, and I can't see Dalton letting them go anywhere near the waterfront, and Northport is far too small.

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50 minutes ago, mfluder said:

Out of where? From next month the Viaduct becomes a construction site. ETNZ moves into the Events Centre in October, and I can't see Dalton letting them go anywhere near the waterfront, and Northport is far too small.

I overlook north port and bream bay and I'm a chronic boat spotter so if anything is going on I will let you know . It could be done from north port but I dunno about Marsden cove it's a very cramped little marina . As for sailing the north corner of bream bay a pretty good bit of water , no obstructions , minimal traffic , flat water in winds from the north round to southwest . There is a container terminal currently going unused and the refinery next door has fuelled the need for mobile cranes so there's a couple of companies  here with a bunch of cranes . And it's cheap up here , perfect for a quick in and out regatta 

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18 minutes ago, Cazzate said:

....

I assume you know what your alias means in Italian ...

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Yes ....my boat is a bull so it was only natural to call it that but not in English !

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4 hours ago, mfluder said:

Out of where? From next month the Viaduct becomes a construction site. ETNZ moves into the Events Centre in October, and I can't see Dalton letting them go anywhere near the waterfront, and Northport is far too small.

Why do you think I would know that? All I know is that I made an inquiry to buy an A from somebody who bought a boat for the worlds and now cannot do the event. He said it was because of testing of the 50's in NZ. I did ask why it couldn't be done at another time because there were a number of people who would miss the worlds and was told the boats wouldn't be ready before hand and that there were a number of reasons why it could not be done after the worlds, including one skipper not being able to attend due to his wife ebing due to give birth.

Reading some other comments above, I laugh at how pure hatred drives some really stupid comments. Some of you need to read the international sailing calendar and see when pro events are. For instance, the RC44 series also clashes with the A Class worlds and that prevents a number of sailors from sailing A's because A's don't pay anything while the RC44's do. It's a fact that pro sailing for these guys comes before sailing for yourself. If anybody thinks the organisers of pro sailing consider something like the A Class Worlds when setting dates for their events, you are being stupid. When asking a few pros whether they would be doing the A Class Worlds (such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Spitthill) the response was always the same - they would like to but it depended on what else was going on in the professional sailing world. 

If you are going to blame Ellison for people not being able to attend the worlds, I blame Dalton for Spitthill not coming because he needs to be in Italy for residency reasons. I believe he isn't the only one in that situation. That would be a crazy thing to do, just like blaming Ellison.

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2 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

Why do you think I would know that? All I know is that I made an inquiry to buy an A from somebody who bought a boat for the worlds and now cannot do the event. He said it was because of testing of the 50's in NZ. I did ask why it couldn't be done at another time because there were a number of people who would miss the worlds and was told the boats wouldn't be ready before hand and that there were a number of reasons why it could not be done after the worlds, including one skipper not being able to attend due to his wife ebing due to give birth.

Press release or it didn't happen. Sorry, Mfluders rules!

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4 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

Why do you think I would know that? All I know is that I made an inquiry to buy an A from somebody who bought a boat for the worlds and now cannot do the event. He said it was because of testing of the 50's in NZ. I did ask why it couldn't be done at another time because there were a number of people who would miss the worlds and was told the boats wouldn't be ready before hand and that there were a number of reasons why it could not be done after the worlds, including one skipper not being able to attend due to his wife ebing due to give birth.

Reading some other comments above, I laugh at how pure hatred drives some really stupid comments. Some of you need to read the international sailing calendar and see when pro events are. For instance, the RC44 series also clashes with the A Class worlds and that prevents a number of sailors from sailing A's because A's don't pay anything while the RC44's do. It's a fact that pro sailing for these guys comes before sailing for yourself. If anybody thinks the organisers of pro sailing consider something like the A Class Worlds when setting dates for their events, you are being stupid. When asking a few pros whether they would be doing the A Class Worlds (such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Spitthill) the response was always the same - they would like to but it depended on what else was going on in the professional sailing world. 

If you are going to blame Ellison for people not being able to attend the worlds, I blame Dalton for Spitthill not coming because he needs to be in Italy for residency reasons. I believe he isn't the only one in that situation. That would be a crazy thing to do, just like blaming Ellison.

How many of the current AC skippers compete seriously in the A-Class? I would say maybe 2. Outteridge, and possibly Slingsby. Why blame Dalton? He lets Ashby compete in the A-Class championships, so why should it be any different for anyone else? 

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