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Larry's AC50 Circus

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

7D800ACB-627D-4B7C-8769-8F6009C07D4A.jpeg

Buttons, anticlockwise from top left:

2: Max Diff

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1: Reset

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Cheers,


Earl

 

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5 minutes ago, mfluder said:

Looking forward to Daltons next interview.

Me too, and there’s a good chance he is perfectly good with this. That series could, like the ESS was for a time, be a stepping stone for sailors into ‘full-time’ AC gigs, a talent pipeline. GD spoke of wanting to tie in to World Sailing, a goal SGP has also embraced.

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5 minutes ago, Earl Boebert said:

Buttons, anticlockwise from top left:

2: Max Diff

3: Neut Diff

1: Reset

4: Trim

5: Trim

Cheers,


Earl

 

Nice, thnx

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

Me too, and there’s a good chance he is perfectly good with this. That series could, like the ESS was for a time, be a stepping stone for sailors into ‘full-time’ AC gigs, a talent pipeline.

Sure, although Dalton stated at the final Press conference in Bermuda "His vision isn't my vision" so not likely. Could've been okay if Coutts had've launched it overseas, but can't see Dalton being happy with the fact that they are basing the series out of New Zealand. 

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12 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

GD spoke of wanting to tie in to World Sailing, a goal SGP has also embraced.

from https://newfanzoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/10/04/sailgp-gains-world-sailing-special-event-status/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

SailGP, a thrilling new fan-centric grand prix racing circuit, has received Special Event status from World Sailing, the world governing body of the sport. 

Special Event status ensures the world governing body formally recognises and sanctions the event.

Over the course of the 11-year partnership, SailGP sanction fees will be invested back into the sport to support World Sailing’s development initiatives. 

World Sailing will support SailGP with promotional and marketing activities as well as supporting the World Sailing Race Officials overseeing the event. SailGP will be held under World Sailing’s Racing Rules of Sailing and Regulations, with World Sailing overseeing in particular the anti-doping and nationality rules.

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12 minutes ago, mfluder said:

Sure, although Dalton stated at the final Press conference in Bermuda "His vision isn't my vision" so not likely. Could've been okay if Coutts had've launched it overseas, but can't see Dalton being happy with the fact that they are basing the series out of New Zealand. 

Even Tuke is praising the good it is doing in NZ. What kind of lunacy thinks it’s a bad thing? Geezus.. lol

The only possible downside to GD is if TNZ has to compete for time-sensitive contracts that local companies have, any ones who do things for both SGP and TNZ. I suspect much of the SGP work has already been done. If GD was smart he’d approach Core for help, ramped up as they are.

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The fees to World Sailing (over 11 years!) remind me of the promised Kosmos/LE $$$ support to ITF over decades in return for a "revitalized" Davis Cup.  Hope they get what they asked for.

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2 hours ago, mfluder said:

 can't see Dalton being happy with the fact that they are basing the series out of New Zealand. 

^^ I am sure you would be happy if SGP was sailed in Aukland during the AC :lol:

 

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For that fancy button studded wheel a more complete description of features from their site would be:

The flight of the boat can be controlled from the twist grips on the steering wheel or from a joystick controlled by the crew member sitting in position 3 (flight controller). The ride height of the boat can be adjusted independent of the fore and aft bow down pitch.

and

The helmsman can control the ride height, the jib sheet, and the rudder differential from push buttons on the steering wheel. The helmsman can also adjust the speed at which those functions are adjusted by adjusting a dial in the centre of the steering wheel.

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5 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ I am sure you would be happy if SGP was sailed in Aukland during the AC :lol:

 

Yeah Pete and the boys can get the beast outta the shed and run a few rings around those toy boats.

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Has Jimmy spoken about why he choose AC?  Money? New skills? Break from Larry and Coutts?

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2 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Has Jimmy spoken about why he choose AC?  Money? New skills? Break from Larry and Coutts?

It was the only job on offer at the time so he bailed and signed...there's loyalty for you

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And you know that how?

You are full of koolade that you just spout any crap that comes into your tiny excuse for a brain.

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2 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Has Jimmy spoken about why he choose AC?  Money? New skills? Break from Larry and Coutts?

https://www.sail-world.com/news/210454/Up-close-and-personal-with-Jimmy-Spithill

Q: What does the America's Cup mean to you? Is it for you still the pinnacle of boat racing?

Jimmy: It really is my life, and it's been my life for a long time. What a dream, I get to work with some awesome people from designers, boat builders and the sailors. It's probably the most addictive thing I've ever done

Its an interview with Spithill, and while I still absolutely detest some of the things Jimmy has done in the past, I wouldn't go so far as to call the guy a liar. But ya know, some people have said its not the real Jimmy Spithill in this interview, he's just saying things because its what people want to hear, even though in the past, most of the things he's said, he's said because people DON'T want to hear it.

Basically, the guy loves the Americas Cup, because its where the best in the world compete.

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35 minutes ago, mfluder said:

Sure, although Dalton stated at the final Press conference in Bermuda "His vision isn't my vision" so not likely. Could've been okay if Coutts had've launched it overseas, but can't see Dalton being happy with the fact that they are basing the series out of New Zealand. 

When Dalton says "his vision isn't my vision", he is referring to the AC. Coutts vision for the SailGP series goes back over 11 years to a time when there were monohulls in the AC. The vision was never to rival the AC, just like now. 

The series is not based out of NZ. The boats have been built there and will get their shake down testing there. If anybody thinks that is bad for NZ or the AC then they are pretty stupid.

You need to be very paranoid to believe this any threat or competition to the AC. The AC is a design competition based around a single event held every 3-4 years. It needs huge budgets, lets say $100m minimum to be competitive. It needs a team that probably totals 50-80 people. The SailGP is in one design boats, with the series running every year. The team needs to be 7-8 people and  budgets are said to be $5m per year which is about the same as a top TP52.

There is nothing around that is like the SailGP. Comparing it to the Extreme series is like comparing the J70's to the TP52's. I believe it does fill a need and will get great traction with the public.

 

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

When Dalton says "his vision isn't my vision", he is referring to the AC. Coutts vision for the SailGP series goes back over 11 years to a time when there were monohulls in the AC. The vision was never to rival the AC, just like now. 

The series is not based out of NZ. The boats have been built there and will get their shake down testing there. If anybody thinks that is bad for NZ or the AC then they are pretty stupid.

You need to be very paranoid to believe this any threat or competition to the AC. The AC is a design competition based around a single event held every 3-4 years. It needs huge budgets, lets say $100m minimum to be competitive. It needs a team that probably totals 50-80 people. The SailGP is in one design boats, with the series running every year. The team needs to be 7-8 people and  budgets are said to be $5m per year which is about the same as a top TP52.

There is nothing around that is like the SailGP. Comparing it to the Extreme series is like comparing the J70's to the TP52's. I believe it does fill a need and will get great traction with the public.

 

Its a pity they didn't think this way when they took the qualifiers away from Auckland. Back then many of you were saying "New Zealand is too far away. New Zealand is logistically difficult, and none of the teams want to go to New Zealand" Now its good for New Zealand, and its only a good thing" Oh how times change! It Would've been great for NZ then too right? Thats what Harvey Schiller thought when he signed the contract, before he was told no, and unceremoniously fired. This isn't about doing a good thing for NZ. Its about Coutts and Ellison thumbing their nose at ETNZ.

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This should be looked at as plus for the NZ economy . The well established boat building community which has grown year by year due in great part do to a VERY favorable $$$ exchange rate is well situated to handle the fleets needs . The dollars flowing into the area will help mitigate the lower than expected income from the AC due to a smaller number of participants what what was planned on . 

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9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

This subject has enjoyed the benefit of rumors and intrigue for a good while. Much of the speculation has now been finalized by the announcement yesterday. Perhaps what remains will be at lower volume and of higher quality :)

We can most likely cut the post count by 5 to10 a day from a certain member saying that there is no way this will ever happen :) 

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21 minutes ago, maxmini said:

We can most likely cut the post count by 5 to10 a day from a certain member saying that there is no way this will ever happen :) 

Then again, the thread is relevant because of a certain member. You're welcome.

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1 hour ago, mfluder said:

Its a pity they didn't think this way when they took the qualifiers away from Auckland. Back then many of you were saying "New Zealand is too far away. New Zealand is logistically difficult, and none of the teams want to go to New Zealand" Now its good for New Zealand, and its only a good thing" Oh how times change! It Would've been great for NZ then too right? Thats what Harvey Schiller thought when he signed the contract, before he was told no, and unceremoniously fired. This isn't about doing a good thing for NZ. Its about Coutts and Ellison thumbing their nose at ETNZ.

How can you get things so badly twisted? We are looking at 2 completely different situations. In the current case, the boats have been built and modified in NZ and are still in NZ, so it is the most convenient place to hold shake down trials. In the case of the qualifiers, everybody except ETNZ was going to have to pack up their boats and base, move to NZ for the qualifier and then pack up again. While nobody would have denied that it would have been good for ETNZ, the NZ economy and local spectators, for the teams it was an expensive distraction with no benefit. If you are unable to understand the difference, there is no hope of ever having an intelligent discussion with you.

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25 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

How can you get things so badly twisted? We are looking at 2 completely different situations. In the current case, the boats have been built and modified in NZ and are still in NZ, so it is the most convenient place to hold shake down trials. In the case of the qualifiers, everybody except ETNZ was going to have to pack up their boats and base, move to NZ for the qualifier and then pack up again. While nobody would have denied that it would have been good for ETNZ, the NZ economy and local spectators, for the teams it was an expensive distraction with no benefit. If you are unable to understand the difference, there is no hope of ever having an intelligent discussion with you.

This series is supposedly coming back once a year to NZ, for the next 3 years, which means they have to pack up and ship to NZ, so whats the difference? Its not just "Shake down trials" its an annual testing session held in NZ every year once a year for at least the next 3 years for all 6 teams! Most of the AC50's were built in New Zealand anyway, certainly more were built in NZ, than not, so no, its an excuse. Schiller thought it was both logistically and financially achievable, that was his job as Commissioner before he was fired, which is why he signed the contract. The problem was, Oracle knew the Kiwi's would have a home town advantage, so they cut it off and were forced to compensate ETNZ for (another) infringement, then imposed a gagging order.

It was too hard, too costly to have a qualifier in NZ, but no sweat to pack up 6 teams and ship everything to NZ once a year for the next 3 years...right?

 

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9 hours ago, acintelligence said:

Ellison might not be the driving force. Coutts actually is. But in management he only failed. 

Is that so? I'd say the RC44 circuit has met its objectives pretty well.

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2 hours ago, mfluder said:

Schiller thought it was both logistically and financially achievable, that was his job as Commissioner before he was fired, which is why he signed the contract. The problem was, Oracle knew the Kiwi's would have a home town advantage, so they cut it off and were forced to compensate ETNZ for (another) infringement, then imposed a gagging order.

Wrong again. Schiller might have thought it was viable but key teams didn't. Both BAR and Artemis stated it would cost more to go to NZ than the fine for non attendance. The biggest issue they had wasn't home advantage for NZ but the time they would be off the water shipping to NZ while ETNZ were practicing. It would have given ETNZ an extra month at a critical time. BAR and Artemis made it clear they would not go, the French weren't properly up and running so were uncertain and SBTJ weren't in yet. that meant only Oracle were in, which made it pointless so the pin was pulled.

2 hours ago, mfluder said:

was too hard, too costly to have a qualifier in NZ, but no sweat to pack up 6 teams and ship everything to NZ once a year for the next 3 years...right?

Completely different. In the AC, the teams are full time trying to develop the fastest boat. Going to and from NZ lost nearly 2 months sailing. That doesn't apply to the SailGP. With the AC teams, they need to bring their whole shore team with all their gear and build a workshop. For the SailGP, all the gear and workshop is there as a shared cost. While in NZ, the AC teams would have been in competition with each other. The sailGP guys will be working together to improve the boats and there will be no formal racing. There is no comparison between the 2 situations.

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4 hours ago, mfluder said:

Its a pity they didn't think this way when they took the qualifiers away from Auckland. Back then many of you were saying "New Zealand is too far away. New Zealand is logistically difficult, and none of the teams want to go to New Zealand" Now its good for New Zealand, and its only a good thing" Oh how times change! It Would've been great for NZ then too right? Thats what Harvey Schiller thought when he signed the contract, before he was told no, and unceremoniously fired. This isn't about doing a good thing for NZ. Its about Coutts and Ellison thumbing their nose at ETNZ.

This is a totally different issue. The AC last time around had commercial partners that had no interest in being in NZ, as it was difficult to drive ROI on their sponsorship. With Sail GP you are talking about design, build and modification followed by shake down sailing. It's all funded by LE, so no need to be make decisions based on what the sponsor want.

Sail GP will look for commercial partners to offset the underwriting from LE, hence why the events are in commercially interesting locations. No doubt NZ is a great country with tons of sailing heritage but it is a commercial nightmare!

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On 10/4/2018 at 8:52 AM, inebriated said:

 

it will be faster than the AC and more competetive

 

One design more competitive than design competition? Imagine that?

Then again, no matter how much better GP2 is to watch than Formula 1, it will always get a tiny fraction of the media and fan interest and ratings of its big brother with the big name.

Moreover, the whole "1 Million Dollars" thing is way too much like Austin Powers for someone to not have made a meme yet.  A million dollars buys two sets of foils...

Is that really the best he can do?  Hell, a mild millionaire owner of the WMRT gave out the same at his first season finale, and more than that in his first season.  For M32 cats...

Look for this to last as long as Larry's health does and the stock market keeps going up.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

...Is that really the best he can do?  Hell, a mild millionaire owner of the WMRT gave out the same at his first season finale, and more than that in his first season.  For M32 cats...

Look for this to last as long as Larry's health does and the stock market keeps going up.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heck, US Survivor TV show gives that to 1 person for 39 days of outwit, outlast, outplay.  And those contestants are not great athletes. 

Specifically, the ORACLE stock price staying up/rising. 

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51 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

A million dollars buys two sets of foils

For a team, $1mm is just a portion of their operating budget. For the sailors, it could be life changing money. No where was it made clear who gets the million. The skipper? Shared by the five sailors? Shared among the entire team? Or into the team's operating budget? The answer makes a big difference. 

 

54 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Look for this to last as long as Larry's health does and the stock market keeps going up.

Agreed. The only way for Larry to remove the inevitable uncertainty about the durability of this circuit is to publicly endow it with enough $$ to keep it running without him. Back of the envelope I figure that would take a low-to-mid-9-figure endowment. 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

One design more competitive than design competition? Imagine that?

 

Of what we hear,

it is not a one design but an evolutive one design, which means it can evolve faster than an AC where the rule is frozen and modifications have to be accepted by the CoR

It is also a rule where all team designers can have an input, thus more creative and resourceful than the CoR/D.

 

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52 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Of what we hear,

it is not a one design but an evolutive one design, which means it can evolve faster than an AC where the rule is frozen and modifications have to be accepted by the CoR

It is also a rule where all team designers can have an input, thus more creative and resourceful than the CoR/D.

 

I'll have whatever you are smoking - it's clearly an amazing trip!

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1 hour ago, 2Newts said:

For a team, $1mm is just a portion of their operating budget. For the sailors, it could be life changing money. No where was it made clear who gets the million. The skipper? Shared by the five sailors? Shared among the entire team? Or into the team's operating budget? The answer makes a big difference. 

No, it doesn't.  $1M after taxes is maybe a year's salary for a mid level skipper with some medals in his CV.  $1M after taxes split 5 ways is a new car.  Life changing?

 

via GIPHY

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It's funny how many ways there are to look at it.  Is it Larry looking to provide a living for 'his boys' and do something good for the sport's future?  Or is he the most vindictive and petty guy ever and he's going to spend $100M to undermine everything that Dalts and Bertelli have done with the 'new' AC?

 Is it Russell desperate to keep the gravy train rolling and stay in the spotlight, or a man who loves the sport doing what he can to keep employing his mates and bring an exciting part of the sport to big cities to try to improve the future for all pro sailing?

Either way, Larry does have a pattern. He gets super excited and goes balls deep for a couple of years on all of his passion projects, spending a fortune with the promise that sponsorship and event revenue will defray more and more of his spend.   When revenue fails to materialize, he gets tired of funding everything and pulls back to a more civilized level.  Another year down the road and he pulls back to the bare essentials.  Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.  

If the product is as good as a bit of Bermuda and some of the San Francisco racing and the GP50 folks can get plugged into the right digital platform at the right time for the right price - AND STICK WITH IT - this thing could rise rapidly.  Chances of that happening?

 

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 1.54.30 PM.png

  

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Of what we hear,

 

"it is not a one design but an evolutive one design, which means it can evolve faster than an AC where the rule is frozen and modifications have to be accepted by the CoR"

That sounds economical

"It is also a rule where all team designers can have an input"

That sounds efficient

 

/sarcasm

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21 hours ago, Earl Boebert said:

Buttons, anticlockwise from top left:

2: Max Diff

3: Neut Diff

1: Reset

4: Trim

5: Trim

Cheers,


Earl

 

Crank that shite to eleven and sendor

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The was I took it, it is not going to be "all team designers can have input" where your "team" really refers to "sailing teams".

Design and upgrades (and event management) all are being done by the common central organization. 

There is and will continue to be (supposedly) a paid design / upgrade team.  The one "design team" does not "have input", it is responsible for design efforts.  If people on "sailing teams" want to be involved in design / upgrading, they should be able to.  However, in this area there will probably be little reliance on the "sailing teams" for much more than possibly operating the boats during test sessions.   

 

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I reckon the development will be centralised with input from the teams and it will mostly be aimed at refining the control systems. 

But unlike the extreme sailing series who seem to have less pride in the system i can imagine more being done to make performance increases year to year then in the VX40s and GC32s. 

I also think it has a chance of being faster than the AC... sure, it's a SMOD so we're not likely to see earth shattering developments along the line, but its a proven platform with upgrades which are likely to have been the product of AC R&D. It's going to take a while to get to the potential of the AC75 and we don't know yet where that potential will end... it could fall short of a cat. 

It'll likely be a much closer competition on the water too. 

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

If the product is as good as a bit of Bermuda and some of the San Francisco racing and the GP50 folks can get plugged into the right digital platform at the right time for the right price - AND STICK WITH IT - this thing could rise rapidly. 

The SGP site does include a few details about media, I think including TV, apps, and something like ‘immersive digital experiences.’

Will they outspend and out-tech AC36 media-wise? Hard to imagine but with Stan Honey on board it’s at least a possibility. Hopefully both will be great.

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56 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The SGP site does include a few details about media, I think including TV, apps, and something like ‘immersive digital experiences.’

Will they outspend and out-tech AC36 media-wise? Hard to imagine but with Stan Honey on board it’s at least a possibility. Hopefully both will be great.

But you thought the AC 35 app was great, so your a pretty cheap date. And immersive was hooking your gps equipped gear, because of course one needed a GPS to use the app and watch the show, up to a TV.

Can't wait to see what Russ cooks up.

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40 minutes ago, barfy said:

But you thought the AC 35 app was great, so your a pretty cheap date.

It did work great for me and the two forum members I chose to share it with but I realize it didn’t work for everyone.

They best-possible we saw during the AC/RC era was when they live streamed ACWS events, for free on YouTube, complete with a whole bunch of selectable on-boat channels. 

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If they go back to something like the ACWS format that was used during the build-up to AC34 (a little bit longer course, match races after the fleet racing and a free-to-air digital TV package), this concept should do very well with the TV viewing public. 

There is no televised racing of any class that foils full time. The ESS is not what I consider an exciting foiling event with short courses that don't let the crews actually sail the boats, and short bursts of foiling action. The televised GC32 series is nothing but highlights and even then the boats are not full-time foiling.

The F50 will not have the restriction of "grinding" pressure to run the foils but will have power on demand so these boats will not only foil 100% of the course in most conditions, but will be able to tack and jibe as needed, taking the lack of reserve pressure out of the picture.

It will be like 6 ETNZ AC50's on the water, only slightly faster, that can tack and jibe on demand (which even the cyclors could not overcome).

There is a lot to like about what is being done here. I do not see SailGP as any kind of "threat" to the AC. 

If anything should SailGP take off or gain any sort of regular veiwership, it would actually help boost the TV ratings of the AC by building interest in fast foiling racing yachts. I would think ETNZ/Prada would welcome their arrival and wish them success as SailGP is the best off season promotion the AC could ask for.

The SailGP website boasts free-to-air television and OTT outlets and hinted at bringing back the multi-boat feed that was so cool in former YouTube and even AC App broadcasts.

LE and RC have had a number of examples of what "works" and what doesn't work. I think they know the AC App with paid subscription viewing was a big flop and that the free YouTube channel was much more successful as far as eyes on the event.

There are far more options available now, that would pay for the programming and present it at no charge then there was back then.

My reservation is talk about the presentation of the TV package. My understanding is that they are NOT looking at "live" broadcasts" but a production to streamline wind and other weather related delays so a show fitting a prescribed timeslot can be produced. There is nothing worse than an edited for time sailboat race. The race needs to be shown in full as it develops or it is really a worthless endeavor.

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23 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Has Jimmy spoken about why he choose AC?  Money? New skills? Break from Larry and Coutts?

My guess is

1. Because the AC is in his blood. Its an itch, he has to scratch it.

2. AC is way more money .  The skippers and key team members are going to earn more in a $100m campaign than a $5m campaign.  The UK GP team has some good sailors but they are not currently considered "the best that money can buy".

 

 

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Im excited about the F50 series.....but realistically, it is going to start off as the Formula 2 of professional foiling. The big names still want to win the AC.

If the AC was really smart and confident, they would realize this and amend the protocol  to allow AC syndicates/teams to fend F50 teams.  The AC teams could use the F50 series to (i) Build a pipeline of talent for the AC  (ii) Build brand recognition for their teams (iii) Reinforce the image that the AC is the big kahuna.

The AC loses if it tries to cast itself as banning participation in other events.  Scared of something?   The F1 motor racing teams participate in many other motor sports events than F1 for all sorts of good reasons.

 

But with or without the cold shoulder from the AC, the F50 is happening and it will be amazing to watch.

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4 minutes ago, IPLore said:

The UK GP team has some good sailors but they are not currently considered "the best that money can buy".

Chris Draper has been right up there in the last 2 AC cycles. He more than held his own in the AC45's ACWS and was sailing team manager for SBTJ. He would be on most teams radar if it weren't for nationality issues.

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21 minutes ago, IPLore said:

Im excited about the F50 series.....but realistically, it is going to start off as the Formula 2 of professional foiling. The big names still want to win the AC.

If the AC was really smart and confident, they would realize this and amend the protocol  to allow AC syndicates/teams to fend F50 teams.  The AC teams could use the F50 series to (i) Build a pipeline of talent for the AC  (ii) Build brand recognition for their teams (iii) Reinforce the image that the AC is the big kahuna.

The AC loses if it tries to cast itself as banning participation in other events.  Scared of something?   The F1 motor racing teams participate in many other motor sports events than F1 for all sorts of good reasons.

 

But with or without the cold shoulder from the AC, the F50 is happening and it will be amazing to watch.

^ This (bolded part) - SailGP is the perfect vehicle for developing high level national teams for future AC challenges and is win/win if the AC decides to embrace it.

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

Chris Draper has been right up there in the last 2 AC cycles. He more than held his own in the AC45's ACWS and was sailing team manager for SBTJ. He would be on most teams radar if it weren't for nationality issues.

Hes a brit, but he obviously wasnt on the British teams radar. There is a 100% nationality rule in this series, so nationality rules aren't the issue.

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43 minutes ago, mfluder said:

Hes a brit, but he obviously wasnt on the British teams radar. There is a 100% nationality rule in this series, so nationality rules aren't the issue.

More rubbish but we have come to expect that. Ben Ainslie's team is already top heavy with senior personnel. Ainslie is loyal to his people so wouldn't sack somebody to replace them with another. Draper helmed during AC34 and was sailing team manager during AC35. Ainslie doesn't need a helm or a new sailing team manager and for any other team, there is the nationality issue to consider. To suggest that Draper isn't up there with the best is wrong because there aren't many who have his experience or record of sailing these fast foilers. I seem to remember that last time around, he was one of the guys responsible for unlocking the first foiling tacks, but then again, that was probably just luck;).

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50 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

More rubbish but we have come to expect that. Ben Ainslie's team is already top heavy with senior personnel. Ainslie is loyal to his people so wouldn't sack somebody to replace them with another. Draper helmed during AC34 and was sailing team manager during AC35. Ainslie doesn't need a helm or a new sailing team manager and for any other team, there is the nationality issue to consider. To suggest that Draper isn't up there with the best is wrong because there aren't many who have his experience or record of sailing these fast foilers. I seem to remember that last time around, he was one of the guys responsible for unlocking the first foiling tacks, but then again, that was probably just luck;).

Rubbish.

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9 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

"it is not a one design but an evolutive one design, which means it can evolve faster than an AC where the rule is frozen and modifications have to be accepted by the CoR"

That sounds economical

"It is also a rule where all team designers can have an input"

That sounds efficient

 

/sarcasm

What will probably change are the foils, $ 1M is peanut for a team.

More brains are always better than less.

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6 hours ago, Chainlocker said:

If they go back to something like the ACWS format that was used during the build-up to AC34 (a little bit longer course, match races after the fleet racing and a free-to-air digital TV package), this concept should do very well with the TV viewing public. 

There is no televised racing of any class that foils full time. The ESS is not what I consider an exciting foiling event with short courses that don't let the crews actually sail the boats, and short bursts of foiling action. The televised GC32 series is nothing but highlights and even then the boats are not full-time foiling.

The F50 will not have the restriction of "grinding" pressure to run the foils but will have power on demand so these boats will not only foil 100% of the course in most conditions, but will be able to tack and jibe as needed, taking the lack of reserve pressure out of the picture.

It will be like 6 ETNZ AC50's on the water, only slightly faster, that can tack and jibe on demand (which even the cyclors could not overcome).

There is a lot to like about what is being done here. I do not see SailGP as any kind of "threat" to the AC. 

If anything should SailGP take off or gain any sort of regular veiwership, it would actually help boost the TV ratings of the AC by building interest in fast foiling racing yachts. I would think ETNZ/Prada would welcome their arrival and wish them success as SailGP is the best off season promotion the AC could ask for.

The SailGP website boasts free-to-air television and OTT outlets and hinted at bringing back the multi-boat feed that was so cool in former YouTube and even AC App broadcasts.

LE and RC have had a number of examples of what "works" and what doesn't work. I think they know the AC App with paid subscription viewing was a big flop and that the free YouTube channel was much more successful as far as eyes on the event.

There are far more options available now, that would pay for the programming and present it at no charge then there was back then.

My reservation is talk about the presentation of the TV package. My understanding is that they are NOT looking at "live" broadcasts" but a production to streamline wind and other weather related delays so a show fitting a prescribed timeslot can be produced. There is nothing worse than an edited for time sailboat race. The race needs to be shown in full as it develops or it is really a worthless endeavor.

There is much to commend about SailGP.  Rusty and Larry are probably the best-suited people in the world to bring us that professional sailing circuit we've been hankering after and debating for years.  Quibbles, of course, from the pundits here but that's to be expected.  I do agree that the prize money is paltry by today's standards, and by Larry's.  

They have engaged some of the most noted and successful names in sailing to bring their vision to reality.  And it doesn't hurt that Larry owns the boat construction company. That said, the ultimate reality is that Rusty has two, perhaps three years at the outside, to build momentum and an engaged following before Larry does his inevitable fade. 

They've stepped away from existing sailing contractors with PR, Marketing and TV, Stan Honey aside.  Certainly kicked off PR strongly with placement of well-written pieces telling their story in a variety of media. As for TV, they've gone for a relatively recent heavyweight in Brit company Whisper Films. A big and talented outfit whose team has kept its powder and its feet dry when it comes to sailing TV.  I echo Chainlocker's truism that "there is nothing worse than an edited for time sailboat race."  The only way to engage sail racers is saturated coverage from the warning signal to the finish gun.  Ideally they should offer both -- free live to air for web or TV who will take it plus a polished Hi-Def one-hour canned show for those who want the highlights.  You can argue that one detracts from the other but that's their dilemma. 

 

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14 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

One design more competitive than design competition? Imagine that?

Then again, no matter how much better GP2 is to watch than Formula 1, it will always get a tiny fraction of the media and fan interest and ratings of its big brother with the big name.

Moreover, the whole "1 Million Dollars" thing is way too much like Austin Powers for someone to not have made a meme yet.  A million dollars buys two sets of foils...

Is that really the best he can do?  Hell, a mild millionaire owner of the WMRT gave out the same at his first season finale, and more than that in his first season.  For M32 cats...

Look for this to last as long as Larry's health does and the stock market keeps going up.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The “ Big Brother “ ?

Big Brother to whom exactly ? 

Certainly not to anywhere near the percentage of the actual sailing community they had a dozen years ago .

The best the AC can hope for is to ramp up interest to the here today gone tomorrow Xgames crowd and that is years away . 

For the next coupl,e of years the only ones interested in following the AC will be the foiling crowd and perhaps NEw Zealanders and those numbers are a fraction of what it used to be .  :) 

Yes this is a generalization to a degree but just swing by most any yacht club and try to strike up a AC related conversation . The blank stare should tell you all you need to know .

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

What will probably change are the foils, $ 1M is peanut for a team.

More brains are always better than less.

Necessity is the mother of invention, not quantity...

Witness ETNZ in AC35... It's hunger... Plain and simple... SGP suffers from the same malaise as the London agreement - it wasn't about the prize, it was about the league...

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5 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

ertainly kicked off PR strongly with placement of well-written pieces telling their story in a variety of media. As for TV, they've gone for a 

Snips

 

Really, fire, lasers...and 404's ???

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10 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

Chris Draper has been right up there in the last 2 AC cycles. He more than held his own in the AC45's ACWS and was sailing team manager for SBTJ. He would be on most teams radar if it weren't for nationality issues.

And why isn't he with sir bin?

He seems like a real affable guy, capable as.

Only room for one helmsman on bens team?

 

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Really, fire, lasers...and 404's ???

I'm with you on fire and lasers, etc. Or course they don''t have a product to film yet. Pushing the mystique button is a knee-jerk response.

But I was ignoring that son et luniere.

Perhaps you missed my comment that they have achieved plenty of PR visibility with well-written explanatory text about people and processes.

However I barely alluded to the steep learning curve Whisper Films faces in capturing sailing action on every a small expanse of open water.  They have a good resource in Stan Honey if only they'll listen to him but we've seen the hash that many TV directors have made of putting viewers inside racing action.

 

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^ I have high hopes for the coverage, especially if they post it. No Wi-Fi, heaps of cameras, drones are all on especially with the free style pilots starting to film action.

Still feels a bit rushed, and no firm statements about free to view. Subscription would sink this ship for sure, are these guys capable of learning this from last time?

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On 10/5/2018 at 8:52 AM, mfluder said:

"it will be faster than the AC and more competetive" Bad spelling aside, lol not with a 100% Nationality rule it won't! 

 

 

Faster? How many extra cycles are they gonna fit on Board? 

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5 hours ago, Nutta said:

Faster? How many extra cycles are they gonna fit on Board? 

Apparently they're going with batteries and stored power instead.

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11 hours ago, barfy said:

^ I have high hopes for the coverage, especially if they post it. No Wi-Fi, heaps of cameras, drones are all on especially with the free style pilots starting to film action.

Still feels a bit rushed, and no firm statements about free to view. Subscription would sink this ship for sure, are these guys capable of learning this from last time?

 

I've seen a few, they are following the path of COR/D on that one - despite all the nonsense they spouted against free to air during AC35

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https://www.sail-world.com/news/210889/SailGP-to-usher-in-a-new-era-of-Grand-Prix-sailing

"But with every crew on the same groundbreaking F50 catamaran, this isn't a tech arms race, rather the ultimate test to establish the best sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans."

There is already a team who has been crowned clearly as the "best sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans" ETNZ were/ are clearly the best team. The fact that they dominated the whole event in Bermuda is proof of that point. An 8% improvement in the boats, will not/ does not change that. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/210722/Kiwis-claim-victory-at-Qingdao-Mazarin-Cup

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Using a road to fly the wing will handicap them enough that they will not reach the level ETNZ were capable of, but we did not see!

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I can see all of bream bay from here , will post any activity I see 

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56 minutes ago, Cazzate said:

I can see all of bream bay from here , will post any activity I see 

I am not far away so I might come down is there is a chance of seeing them.

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1 hour ago, mfluder said:

https://www.sail-world.com/news/210889/SailGP-to-usher-in-a-new-era-of-Grand-Prix-sailing

"But with every crew on the same groundbreaking F50 catamaran, this isn't a tech arms race, rather the ultimate test to establish the best sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans."

There is already a team who has been crowned clearly as the "best sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans" ETNZ were/ are clearly the best team. The fact that they dominated the whole event in Bermuda is proof of that point. An 8% improvement in the boats, will not/ does not change that. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/210722/Kiwis-claim-victory-at-Qingdao-Mazarin-Cup

Are you really that blind or are are you just dumb. ETNZ won a design race. They had the best boat with the best systems. All credit to them for that. All credit to the sailors for learning how to sail the boat to its potential. What there is no evidence for is who would have won if the teams had been in equal boats. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

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35 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Are you really that blind or are are you just dumb. ETNZ won a design race. They had the best boat with the best systems. All credit to them for that. All credit to the sailors for learning how to sail the boat to its potential. What there is no evidence for is who would have won if the teams had been in equal boats. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

So you're just going to brush over the fact that Pete Burling and Blair Tuke have dominated the 49er since 2012, winning 28 major regattas, and who also won the Olympic gold medal without even needing to sail the gold medal race, and won by the largest points margin of any Olympic class for the last 50 years!? Glenn Ashby is widely referred to as the greatest multihull sailor in the world today, those guys put a team together, gel'd and dominated the Americas in their first foray as a team with a team full of rookies? It takes an extremely talented team to be able to pull that feat off?

Is it really so hard for you to admit it? Just say it...Team NZ had/ have the best design, and the greatest sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans. 

After hearing for so long "There is no second" I guess now, there is a second. 

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11 minutes ago, mfluder said:

So you're just going to brush over the fact that Pete Burling and Blair Tuke have dominated the 49er since 2012, winning 28 major regattas, and who also won the Olympic gold medal without even needing to sail the gold medal race, and won by the largest points margin of any Olympic class for the last 50 years!? Glenn Ashby is widely referred to as the greatest multihull sailor in the world today, those guys put a team together, gel'd and dominated the Americas in their first foray as a team with a team full of rookies? It takes an extremely talented team to be able to pull that feat off?

Is it really so hard for you to admit it? Just say it...Team NZ had/ have the best design, and the greatest sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans. 

After hearing for so long "There is no second" I guess now, there is a second. 

It is as stupid to say that ETNZ was the best AC team because PB dominated the 49er in 2012 than if I was saying it was a bad AC team because PB was dominated during the Volvo in 2018. 

And now, put it into your head, AC is a design contest, OD is a sailor contest.

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18 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

It is as stupid to say that ETNZ was the best AC team because PB dominated the 49er in 2012 than if I was saying it was a bad AC team because PB was dominated during the Volvo in 2018. 

And now, put it into your head, AC is a design contest, OD is a sailor contest.

I'm not saying ETNZ was the best team because of Pete Burlings achievements outside the AC, but its equally stupid saying it isn't. I'm saying the overall package was by far the best. Package includes design/ build/ sailing team etc, not just design. A fast boat with a great team will always beat a fast boat with an average team. 

Oracle was out designed, outsmarted, and out sailed by ETNZ. The strength of a sailing team should never be discounted/ dismissed because that team was given a better tool for the job. 

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3 minutes ago, mfluder said:

I'm not saying ETNZ was the best team because of Pete Burlings achievements outside the AC, but its equally stupid saying it isn't.

So, basically you say you are stupid ? :)

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42 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

It is as stupid to say that ETNZ was the best AC team because PB dominated the 49er in 2012 than if I was saying it was a bad AC team because PB was dominated during the Volvo in 2018. 

And now, put it into your head, AC is a design contest, OD is a sailor contest.

ETNZ won The Cup because they had the best boat in Bermuda. It is as simple as that. The decision to stretch the class rules and go with cyclors, which all the other teams looked at and made the calculated mistake of not choosing that option, was, in my opinion the biggest game changer. Yes they also had a great flight control and wing trim system that allowed them to sail the boat at its best trim possible, it was the ability to generate pressure quickly and keep that pressure to control the foils and wing that made the biggest difference.

I have the utmost respect for the ETNZ sailing team and they deserved the win, but as far as a pure sailing team I still feel Artemis fielded a superior crew in a less competitive boat. We will never know, but sailed in one-design F-50's, Artemis would have bested ETNZ. The end results were actually closer than the end score shows with a much less capable yacht.

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30 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So, basically you say you are stupid ? :)

He’s bound to get lucky and be right once in awhile!

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12 minutes ago, Chainlocker said:

ETNZ won The Cup because they had the best boat in Bermuda. It is as simple as that. The decision to stretch the class rules and go with cyclors, which all the other teams looked at and made the calculated mistake of not choosing that option, was, in my opinion the biggest game changer. Yes they also had a great flight control and wing trim system that allowed them to sail the boat at its best trim possible, it was the ability to generate pressure quickly and keep that pressure to control the foils and wing that made the biggest difference.

I have the utmost respect for the ETNZ sailing team and they deserved the win, but as far as a pure sailing team I still feel Artemis fielded a superior crew in a less competitive boat. We will never know, but sailed in one-design F-50's, Artemis would have bested ETNZ. The end results were actually closer than the end score shows with a much less capable yacht.

Artemis made mistakes. They made more mistakes at critical times than ETNZ did. A superior boat doesn't stop you sliding overboard. A superior boat doesn't stop you crossing boundaries at critical times. Those are all unforced errors made in pressure situations. A superior team handles pressure better than an average team. A superior team is able to identify their weaknesses, learn from their mistakes, and get stronger, which is exactly what ETNZ did. ETNZ may have been faster than Artemis, but it wasn't by much. The deciding factor, certainly in the early stages of the final was the mistakes Artemis made (crossing the boundary, and Outteridge going overboard) coupled with gear failure when Artemis had to retire from one race with board issues. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Monkey said:

He’s bound to get lucky and be right once in awhile!

Coming from a guy who couldn't hold a decent conversation to save himself! smh

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2 minutes ago, mfluder said:

Coming from a guy who couldn't hold a decent conversation to save himself! smh

Why are you still here?  You don’t care about Larry’s experiment, remember?  We’d hate to think you lied to us. 

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2 minutes ago, mfluder said:

 

Do you honestly think ETNZ could win the SailGP without f’ing bicycles (!) on the yacht? 

:D

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Do you honestly think ETNZ could win the SailGP without f’ing bicycles (!) on the yacht? 

:D

Yes, I would. Are you saying they're not capable of it? Why wouldn't they win? Are you saying they only won because of the bikes? Thats as stupid as when you said "Its clear that the faster boat lost the Americas Cup"

 

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4 hours ago, mfluder said:

https://www.sail-world.com/news/210889/SailGP-to-usher-in-a-new-era-of-Grand-Prix-sailing

"But with every crew on the same groundbreaking F50 catamaran, this isn't a tech arms race, rather the ultimate test to establish the best sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans."

There is already a team who has been crowned clearly as the "best sailing team in advanced foiling catamarans" ETNZ were/ are clearly the best team. The fact that they dominated the whole event in Bermuda is proof of that point. An 8% improvement in the boats, will not/ does not change that. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/210722/Kiwis-claim-victory-at-Qingdao-Mazarin-Cup

B frickn S.

ETNZ had the best boat by a large margin.  Without a level playing field for equipment you assertion is pure KIWI wishful thinking.

You are just so full of it I can not resist the opportunity to show how biased and untruthful you are.

You sure make all ETNZ supports look like the lowest form of manic supporters.

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49 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Mfluder, do you think they could win the SailGP without their computerized heave control system ? :ph34r:

Really? Yes. So what you're saying is suddenly Peter Burling, Glenn Ashby and Blair Tuke have forgotten how to sail because they have a computerised system? And you guys think I say some stupid things!! 

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2 minutes ago, P Flados said:

B frickn S.

ETNZ had the best boat by a large margin.  Without a level playing field for equipment you assertion is pure KIWI wishful thinking.

You are just so full of it I can not resist the opportunity to show how biased and untruthful you are.

You sure make all ETNZ supports look like the lowest form of manic supporters.

You must be loving the taste of those sour grapes huh?

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4 minutes ago, mfluder said:

You must be loving the taste of those sour grapes huh?

Absolutely not.  In my opinion, Artemis put forth a much better effort than my team.  You are just so full of it, that you nauseate everyone that wants to contribute to a meaningful discussion about the topic at hand.

As previously noted, ETNZ won the design contest hands down.  The crew used this advantage to win.  Nothing more, nothing less.   

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3 minutes ago, P Flados said:

Absolutely not.  In my opinion, Artemis put forth a much better effort than my team.  You are just so full of it, that you nauseate everyone that wants to contribute to a meaningful discussion about the topic at hand.

As previously noted, ETNZ won the design contest hands down.  The crew used this advantage to win.  Nothing more, nothing less.   

I have never disputed that, Yes, they did. And yes, Artemis put up a better fight than Oracle (I assume thats your team? As many on here were scared of admitting it, so they just went to the go to line of "I don't have a horse in this race) so your contribution is irrelevant. Go back to sleep.

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Just now, mfluder said:

I have never disputed that, so your contribution is irrelevant. Go back to sleep.

Yes you did.  Your assertion that they were the best sailors in the AC is in direct contradiction.

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3 minutes ago, P Flados said:

Yes you did.  Your assertion that they were the best sailors in the AC is in direct contradiction.

My assertion is correct. They were the best sailors in the AC. Are you saying the best sailors didn't win the AC? because if you're going to say that, the next thing you should do is give yourself an uppercut.

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I think it's great we will see the F50's sailing in a re-invented circuit. They will be fun to watch at 50 Knots.! Larry's Circus lives on.! Can't wait to see the AC75's sailing also. Good times all round IMO.

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