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Larry's AC50 Circus

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BAR boat was broken apart and had its carbon fiber recycled. I doubt it is the BAR boat.

 

I think it was the 45s

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In your opinion. In MY view, the AC50 circuit - if it happens - will be Gran Prix yacht racing at its best - 50 knot wing sailed foiling cats that can foil all the way round the course. Especially if they add EV to raise/lower/cant/rake the foils, so the grinders are only trimming the wing and jib. 

When you really think about it, those boats and the schedule they were looking at doing with the framework agreement makes more sense as a ‘gran prix’ than as an AC format anyway - once every 4 years is plenty often for the AC, and closer to tradition.

It will also add an upper level tier to foiling racing that will be another potential source/proving ground for future AC sailors. 

 

No, in reality. There was only ONE dominant AC50 in Bermuda, and that AC50 will not be part of this series, so there will always be a faster, better AC50 than anything in any AC50 series.

The Americas Cup is the ONLY series needed as a top proving ground for AC sailors.

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This was from a guy who is building the foils. He also said that the BAR boat had just turned up. A mate rang me the next day and he had beard about it too. Definitely not a rumour. 

BAR are recycling all 5 boats so it wont be their boat.

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Maybe its about time you pulled your 12s ,Iaac and Black Heart posters down off the toilet wall.:D

Maybe its time you forget about the AC50's. They're dead, and they're not coming back.

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In your opinion. In MY view, the AC50 circuit - if it happens - will be Gran Prix yacht racing at its best - 50 knot wing sailed foiling cats that can foil all the way round the course. Especially if they add EV to raise/lower/cant/rake the foils, so the grinders are only trimming the wing and jib. 

When you really think about it, those boats and the schedule they were looking at doing with the framework agreement makes more sense as a ‘gran prix’ than as an AC format anyway - once every 4 years is plenty often for the AC, and closer to tradition.

It will also add an upper level tier to foiling racing that will be another potential source/proving ground for future AC sailors. 

 

What do you mean by "Gran Prix" (sic)?

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Core are building one design foils and modding the boats. Anyone heard anything else?

What mods? Are they sealing the kingposts??:lol:

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^ ‘Grand prix’.

:)

And what do you mean by "Grand Prix"?

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And what do you mean by "Grand Prix"?

He meant le grand poulet

5ab3ffea96a6f_legrandpoulet.jpg.1e90bf7811e95b387e8d837ce9f979f9.jpg

 

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Maybe its time you forget about the AC50's. They're dead, and they're not coming back.

We’re all going to laugh when these obsolete boats continue to be faster than those goofball tripods the pride of your country came up with. 

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We’re all going to laugh when these obsolete boats continue to be faster than those goofball tripods the pride of your country came up with. 

Yep. They'll be really fast wrapped in their cling wrap or sitting in pieces in a shed somewhere while those "Goofball Tripods" contest the Americas Cup.

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Yep. They'll be really fast wrapped in their cling wrap or sitting in pieces in a shed somewhere. 

Care to bet on that?  I’ll even make it a cheap bet. If the AC50 series actually happens before the next America’s Cup, I get to pick your avatar for the duration of the Cup. If it doesn’t, vice versa. 

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We’re all going to laugh when these obsolete boats continue to be faster than those goofball tripods the pride of your country came up with. 

There are plenty of faster boats... 

Justlike there are plenty of faster cars than F1...

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There are plenty of faster boats... 

Justlike there are plenty of faster cars than F1...

Yep, but a certain someone from NZ said they’d be faster. 

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Yep, but a certain someone from NZ said they’d be faster. 

The consensus is they will be in the right conditions.

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"Rival America's Cup regattas have been mooted many times in the past but have faltered because they are not the America's Cup and lack the prestige to attract sponsorship and commercial backing"

https://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup---Is-an-AC50-World-Series-about-to-be-launched/-158067?source=google.co.nz

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What we do know for sure is that Rusty Coutts has his own world series about to happen..... AC50... can't see it happening

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The only thing we've heard about this series is Tom Ehman, and if you go by his past tendencies to blab about different series happening (Super 12's) take it with a grain of salt. Ehman said he had facilities contracted to build the boats, he had owners signed up who were going to put teams together, and nothing. Everyone else is "I heard it from a friend of a friend who is building the boards at core" Yeah right, I'll believe it when I see it. "My neighbors, friends, cousins, brothers best friends cat told him it was on" haha

Definitely not this year anyway as the calendar is full and confirmed, no AC50 series. And the next AC design/ build/ Team development cycle will be in full swing come 2019.

Highly unlikely.

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The only thing we've heard about this series is Tom Ehman, and if you go by his past tendencies to blab about different series happening (Super 12's) take it with a grain of salt.

 

I agree on that, however, difficult to compare super slow 12's with super fast AC50's

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I agree on that, however, difficult to compare super slow 12's with Super Fast  Super expensive AC50's

Fixed

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Yep, but a certain someone from NZ said they’d be faster. 

In certain conditions (ie the Hauraki Gulf, you know... where they will be raced...)

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Care to bet on that?  I’ll even make it a cheap bet. If the AC50 series actually happens before the next America’s Cup, I get to pick your avatar for the duration of the Cup. If it doesn’t, vice versa. 

@sclarkeplease respond

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Why?

because it would be funny as shit to watch you change his profile or vice-versa

i don't think that this shitshow will happen either though

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clarkey, why are you touting this series as a rival to the AC.  It is not trying to be anything else but a series using the AC50s, just another regatta, not a put up to the AC.  You seem to have your knickers in a twist that Larry is doing this to thumb his nose at the AC.  Not so, but it is a way of making use of some great technology and also to further improve on what they had.  We get that TNZ had better tech and their boat was faster but it would be interesting to see where this class of boat can lead to in the future.

The AC is the AC and nothing will change that, but having a regatta or two in the AC50s would be great viewing.

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I think we should call them OR50s as they are not AC50s !

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clarkey, why are you touting this series as a rival to the AC.  It is not trying to be anything else but a series using the AC50s, just another regatta, not a put up to the AC.  You seem to have your knickers in a twist that Larry is doing this to thumb his nose at the AC.  Not so, but it is a way of making use of some great technology and also to further improve on what they had.  We get that TNZ had better tech and their boat was faster but it would be interesting to see where this class of boat can lead to in the future.

The AC is the AC and nothing will change that, but having a regatta or two in the AC50s would be great viewing.

 

There's a fair bit of twisted logic in there ^

 

using the AC50s

they will not be 'class compliant' AC50s, nor will they be able to keep anything 'AC' in their name or promotion - unless RNZYS is feeling extremely generous.

Re-purposing some of the unmatched carcasses more like.....

 

would be interesting to see where this class of boat can lead to in the future.

It will not be 'this class' (America's Cup Class per AC35)

If you simply want to push on, why start with something that was so rule-compromised in the first place?

But of course by using the basic boat/s and improving it's performance, (outside the rule, outside the window and without the strongest competitors) or easier yet just claiming to have and convincing the gullible (sadly SOP in the USA ATM) will allow Larry to 'best' ETNZ yet again and forever! as he will not compete against them on anything like a level playing field again (if he ever did):lol:

 

making use of some great technology

Which tech? The best foils? The best wing? The best control systems? The best hydraulics?

How much of the good stuff do they even have access to? Most of OTUSA's turned out to be 2nd (or 3rd) rate :D The mountain bike was cool though.

And how much would they use in a one design class* even if they could. Wont they be looking for simpler, more reliable, less expensive, easier (smaller team) to launch and retrieve, easier to maintain and easier to sail boats?

As others have pointed out a lot of the basic 'tech' is already out there racing in other classes already - so that brings us to...

 

that Larry is doing this to thumb his nose at the AC

which I think is and always has been the most obvious conclusion - reinforced again by the weak arguments against, that you presented here.

Larry has clearly learned that his ego gets the biggest boost when he totally controls the game in which he competes - and those he competes against.
 

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On 3/23/2018 at 12:26 AM, Justaquickone said:

I think it was the 45s

It was only their slow boats!  :)

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Another boring fucking nothing thread..! Time to let go and do the AC36. Who gives a shit? The AC will be on foiling monos and then you whingers can sook about that design? 

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On 24/03/2018 at 11:36 AM, terrafirma said:

Another boring fucking nothing thread..! 

I have wonderful news for you. If the thread bores you, you don't have to read it. We'd all like be discussing AC36 news, if only there were some.

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"unmatched carcases"

Except they are matched. But for the controls and foils the boats where basically one design. Fit out with standard controls and foils  and you've got a fleet of matched boats.

At least this keeps AC36 honest. It may be The Americas Cup, but if it aint in the fastest boats (conditions apply) and doesn't have the best sailors at it it's not going to be the pinnacle of the sport. Brash money and being in Auckland will keep the torch burning for a cycle or 2 but it'll slowly fade.

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1 hour ago, rgeek said:

"unmatched carcases"

Except they are matched. But for the controls and foils the boats where basically one design. Fit out with standard controls and foils  and you've got a fleet of matched boats.

At least this keeps AC36 honest. It may be The Americas Cup, but if it aint in the fastest boats (conditions apply) and doesn't have the best sailors at it it's not going to be the pinnacle of the sport. Brash money and being in Auckland will keep the torch burning for a cycle or 2 but it'll slowly fade.

Sure thing bud...

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13 hours ago, rgeek said:

"unmatched carcases"

Except they are matched. But for the controls and foils the boats where basically one design. Fit out with standard controls and foils  and you've got a fleet of matched boats.

At least this keeps AC36 honest. It may be The Americas Cup, but if it aint in the fastest boats (conditions apply) and doesn't have the best sailors at it it's not going to be the pinnacle of the sport. Brash money and being in Auckland will keep the torch burning for a cycle or 2 but it'll slowly fade.

Nope. The outside of the hulls and the wing were defined.

But there was variation allowed in hull structure, wing structure, foils, foil placement, foil box, bearings and controlling hydraulics, aero, rigging, foredeck, 'pod-deck', wing seal, winches (or not) and all control systems - but sure, if you call standardizing all that 'fit-out' :lol:

Cup of Spite.

 

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16 hours ago, rgeek said:

"unmatched carcases"

Except they are matched. But for the controls and foils the boats where basically one design. Fit out with standard controls and foils  and you've got a fleet of matched boats.

At least this keeps AC36 honest. It may be The Americas Cup, but if it aint in the fastest boats (conditions apply) and doesn't have the best sailors at it it's not going to be the pinnacle of the sport. Brash money and being in Auckland will keep the torch burning for a cycle or 2 but it'll slowly fade.

Haha by "basically one design" do you mean they all had two hulls and a wing? haha

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3 hours ago, sclarke said:

Haha by "basically one design" do you mean they all had two hulls and a wing? haha

Are you really that dumb or did you make no effort to understand the rules? The hulls and beams were one design and the profile and sections of the wing were also one design. To create a fleet of equal boats is actually rather easy.

The absence of the ETNZ boat is actually a bonus, not a negative. If it were there and was winning, it would mean that they had failed in the most imporant concept of the series, to create an equal fleet where the sailors are the ones that make the difference. When one design racing, the difference between the boats doing, say 44 knots and 45 knots is irrelevant. Some of the most spectacular racing during the last AC didn't even involve the fastest boat and to some extent, it was less interesting when you knew who had the faster boat.

There is more than enough room in the sailing world to have a series with these great boats. There is zero conflict or competition with the AC, which is something completely different. I think it is great that these wonderful boats will not be wasted and only limited to one single event.

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Just now, Team_GBR said:

Are you really that dumb or did you make no effort to understand the rules? The hulls and beams were one design and the profile and sections of the wing were also one design. To create a fleet of equal boats is actually rather easy.

The absence of the ETNZ boat is actually a bonus, not a negative. If it were there and was winning, it would mean that they had failed in the most imporant concept of the series, to create an equal fleet where the sailors are the ones that make the difference. When one design racing, the difference between the boats doing, say 44 knots and 45 knots is irrelevant. Some of the most spectacular racing during the last AC didn't even involve the fastest boat and to some extent, it was less interesting when you knew who had the faster boat.

There is more than enough room in the sailing world to have a series with these great boats. There is zero conflict or competition with the AC, which is something completely different. I think it is great that these wonderful boats will not be wasted and only limited to one single event.

i think that they have a possible market if they were fleet racing

are they fleet racing, i haven't read into this whole thing too much, if it was match racing i don't think it would get anywhere at all

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24 minutes ago, inebriated said:

i think that they have a possible market if they were fleet racing

are they fleet racing, i haven't read into this whole thing too much, if it was match racing i don't think it would get anywhere at all

Imagine the carnage 5 of those things on a course at one time could cause! With all the safety conscious posting going on about how dangerous the AC75's will be, 5 AC50's closing at 30+ knots in a fleet race seems far more reckless. 

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35 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Imagine the carnage 5 of those things on a course at one time could cause! With all the safety conscious posting going on about how dangerous the AC75's will be, 5 AC50's closing at 30+ knots in a fleet race seems far more reckless. 

It would basically look like the latest round of the Super Foilers in Sydney :) they only injured two or three crew over the course of the weekend!

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39 minutes ago, sclarke said:

AC75's will be, 5 AC50's closing at 30+ knots in a fleet race seems far more reckless. 

^^ Could you explain why clarkey ?

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4 hours ago, Boybland said:

It would basically look like the latest round of the Super Foilers in Sydney :) they only injured two or three crew over the course of the weekend!

Except we’ve already seen the AC50s race in anger. All of them had fully manual foil control system except for ETNZ - the only boat that flipped - and still no injuries.  

 

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5 hours ago, surfsailor said:

Except we’ve already seen the AC50s race in anger. All of them had fully manual foil control system except for ETNZ - the only boat that flipped - and still no injuries.  

 

which was pure luck in terms of the BAR/TJ prestart incident

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Just now, rgeek said:

which was pure luck in terms of the BAR/TJ prestart incident

yeah, for sure

but i think if the new boats have stored power, and the ride height is passed off to a former grinder, so much pressure would be taken off the helm.

imagine trying to steer and fly a machine like that

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3 hours ago, rgeek said:

which was pure luck in terms of the BAR/TJ prestart incident

True - but you can’t really directly blame the boats for that. If there WAS a boat issue with BAR - sudden unexpected leeway coupling, rudder ventilation etc - that somehow caused that, it should be resolved on the AC50 rebuilds which would logically combine the best aspects of each boat.

If it actually happens, that is.

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On 3/27/2018 at 3:58 PM, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ Could you explain why clarkey ?

I just did. 

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It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.

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17 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.

Great so it's the sailing equivalent of the Reno Air Races... enjoy!

Agree that these new boats won't be AC50s, rightfully preserving ETNZ as the fastest AC50 forever.

And also agree with you that this isn't the AC, so best you open a new thread at Multihull Anarchy ;-)

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31 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.

Yadda yadda.....

Funny how those who say this is separate and no competition, put a 'no compete' clause in their own Protocols specifically to stop AC sailors (Ainsley for example) and Teams from participating in other regattas without leave to do so.

The Spite Cup, woulda, coulda, shoulda

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.

Link? There is nothing anywhere to suggest anything is happening anywhere. Even Tom Ehman has seemingly given up on mentioning it. And he was the only one who seemed to know anything about it!

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3 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.

If Ainslie is sailing in this new series then what's happening about their AC36 challenge? It would seem to be impossible to participate in two unrelated series - both time wise and financially.

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Ainslie won't be a part of it, neither will Burling, Tuke, Ashby, Spithill or Barker. By the sounds of it Alinghi is out as well. Given this scenario, you won't see ETNZ, Oracle Team USA, Land Rover BAR, Softbank Team Japan or Alinghi. That leaves two AC teams (Brands) Artemis Racing, and Groupama Team France. They can't use any of the copyright and Trademarked material from the Americas Cup, so there is no footage to promote the event, someone has to pay for these supposed upgrades that no one has heard anything about, 2018 is almost half way through, and there is not even a hint of anything being added to the calendar year in 2019. 

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6 hours ago, sclarke said:

Link? There is nothing anywhere to suggest anything is happening anywhere. Even Tom Ehman has seemingly given up on mentioning it. And he was the only one who seemed to know anything about it!

I have heard almost the same thing as A Class Sailor posted. No official announcements for some time yet, because they don't need to make them. The main players know what is going on. The way it was told to me is that only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part, which means no Jimmy, Ashby, Burling or Tuke. Slingsby will skipper the Oracle boat, Outteridge will helm Artemis with Percy, Barker will be sailing and Chris Draper will skipper a boat. Others want in and the current discussion is whether they can convert AC45's to be fair and competitive as they want more boats.

I believe that the design work is finished, orders have been placed, work schedules are drawn up . Venues are being finalised. I'd put a lot of money on it happening. Time will tell.

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

... only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part...

Given the alleged crew requirements are less for these new boats, I'd say that that there are plenty more sailors from AC35 not taking part than just those working for ETNZ and LR.

Or are you suggesting that there are some others who will be sailing in the next AC cycle as well as participating in this?

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

I have heard almost the same thing as A Class Sailor posted. No official announcements for some time yet, because they don't need to make them. The main players know what is going on. The way it was told to me is that only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part, which means no Jimmy, Ashby, Burling or Tuke. Slingsby will skipper the Oracle boat, Outteridge will helm Artemis with Percy, Barker will be sailing and Chris Draper will skipper a boat. Others want in and the current discussion is whether they can convert AC45's to be fair and competitive as they want more boats.

I believe that the design work is finished, orders have been placed, work schedules are drawn up . Venues are being finalised. I'd put a lot of money on it happening. Time will tell.

AC 45's...

That's a good idea.

kinda like going to a rally race with a datsun510.

time will tell.

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2 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

I have heard almost the same thing as A Class Sailor posted. No official announcements for some time yet, because they don't need to make them. The main players know what is going on. The way it was told to me is that only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part, which means no Jimmy, Ashby, Burling or Tuke. Slingsby will skipper the Oracle boat, Outteridge will helm Artemis with Percy, Barker will be sailing and Chris Draper will skipper a boat. Others want in and the current discussion is whether they can convert AC45's to be fair and competitive as they want more boats.

I believe that the design work is finished, orders have been placed, work schedules are drawn up . Venues are being finalised. I'd put a lot of money on it happening. Time will tell.

You guys always say "I heard" from who? To just say "I heard this" is ridiculous! There are no links, not even any discussions that anyone has heard taking place. If you think Hap Fauth, Doug De Vos and Terry Hutchinson are going to let Barker go anywhere else except "American Magic" you're kidding yourself. Barker is locked in for at least 2018 with the Quantum Bella Mente Team. Barker is also Americas Cup through and through, he's not doing anything except the Americas Cup, especially given the fact it is being held in his home country. He'll be in Auckland in 2021, so he's out. Slingsby, Outteridge and Draper aren't big enough names to carry a brand new series.

Names who won't be a part" Ben Ainslie, and much if not all of his Land Rover BAR team from Bermuda including Giles Scott, Freddie Carr and Leigh McMillan. 

Jimmy Spithill, Francesco Bruni and most of the top Italian sailors.

Dean Barker, and probably most of his ex Team NZ buddies.

Pete Burling, Blair Tuke, Glenn Ashby, Jason Waterhouse is also helming the New Zealand ESS team, so wouldn't be surprised if he becomes part of the next cycle as well.

Sure you might see Outteridge, Draper and Percy, but are they really big enough names to carry a brand new series? 

Its more likely Outteridge and Jensen will focus their attention on Tokyo 2020 and winning a gold medal, they will have to focus much of their attention if they are to defeat Burling and Tuke.

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19 minutes ago, sclarke said:

You guys always say "I heard" from who? To just say "I heard this" is ridiculous! There are no links, not even any discussions that anyone has heard taking place. If you think Hap Fauth, Doug De Vos and Terry Hutchinson are going to let Barker go anywhere else except "American Magic" you're kidding yourself. Barker is locked in for at least 2018 with the Quantum Bella Mente Team. Barker is also Americas Cup through and through, he's not doing anything except the Americas Cup, especially given the fact it is being held in his home country. He'll be in Auckland in 2021, so he's out. Slingsby, Outteridge and Draper aren't big enough names to carry a brand new series.

Names who won't be a part" Ben Ainslie, and much if not all of his Land Rover BAR team from Bermuda including Giles Scott, Freddie Carr and Leigh McMillan. 

Jimmy Spithill, Francesco Bruni and most of the top Italian sailors.

Dean Barker, and probably most of his ex Team NZ buddies.

Pete Burling, Blair Tuke, Glenn Ashby, Jason Waterhouse is also helming the New Zealand ESS team, so wouldn't be surprised if he becomes part of the next cycle as well.

Sure you might see Outteridge, Draper and Percy, but are they really big enough names to carry a brand new series? 

Its more likely Outteridge and Jensen will focus their attention on Tokyo 2020 and winning a gold medal, they will have to focus much of their attention if they are to defeat Burling and Tuke.

+1

outtridge and jensen are no longer in the 49er though, outteridge is with his sister on a nacra from what their instagram stories show. i also have mutual friends with members of the aus nacra squad and they're a bit miffed because it's not like anyone else will get the spot to tokyo.

really though, if they needed big sailing names to carry their new series, outtridge, jensen and slingsby are some of the biggest in the world next to the 3 leaders of TNZ

i definitly agree with you though, this whole ac50 circuit is feeling like a bit of a ruse 

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Maybe best if A Class explains where all the things he states so definitively are coming from....

 

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15 minutes ago, nav said:

Maybe best if A Class explains where all the things he states so definitively are coming from....

 

From the Whitehouse in Queen Street fake news section.

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5 hours ago, sclarke said:

Names who won't be a part....

 

And why would the absence of those names prevent the organisation of another event ?

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

And why would the absence of those names prevent the organisation of another event ?

Because a new event needs sponsors, sponsors need a reason to get involved. Big names attract sponsors. They can no longer rely on the catchphrase "The latest technology" because 1)everyone knows ETNZ has that covered, especially if the 75's take off. And 2) Big names attract audiences. Without big names, no one cares. The only thing that anyone who is pushing this thing are relying on is the fact that Larry is a dumb ass who will do it because he wants to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for next to no return, except a few SA posters who would "pay to see it" 

Think about it, no British team means no british audience, no kiwi team means no Kiwi audience, no American team, no American Audience, no Italian Team, no Italian audience, you get the picture right?

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On 22 March 2018 at 3:45 PM, sclarke said:

BAR are recycling all 5 boats so it wont be their boat.

The BAR 50 is at Core...

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6 hours ago, sclarke said:

Because a new event needs sponsors, sponsors need a reason to get involved. Big names attract sponsors. They can no longer rely on the catchphrase "The latest technology" because 1)everyone knows ETNZ has that covered, especially if the 75's take off. And 2) Big names attract audiences. Without big names, no one cares. The only thing that anyone who is pushing this thing are relying on is the fact that Larry is a dumb ass who will do it because he wants to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for next to no return, except a few SA posters who would "pay to see it" 

Think about it, no British team means no british audience, no kiwi team means no Kiwi audience, no American team, no American Audience, no Italian Team, no Italian audience, you get the picture right?

1) There are lots of other big names for another event

2) AC75 latest technology does not exclude another event

3) I don't know if the other event will happen, but if it does, a cheaper and probably faster boat would attract sponsors

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I would think any serious AC challenger would welcome the opportunity to give their sailing team more quality water time on 50kt foilers, especially a new team like Bella Mente Quantum - the boats are already 90% sorted, so the cost of competing will be chump change compared to the overall AC budgets. For sure there will be other hot talent itching to get into next level foiling as well, and with fewer teams in AC36 due to massive expense, this will also be a great opportunity for all the guys who didn't get a gig.

I figure it's win-win - and win^3 if they crack 50 kts with the new foils and flight control systems.

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1 hour ago, Racing Fast said:

The BAR 50 is at Core...

The new Sled TP52 was given coverage of its build at CORE, and that was a brand new build. There was photo's of its construction as well as updates as it was being built, and its launch. There are no photo's, no nothing of an AC50, an already established Americas Cup Class yacht arriving at CORE, or being modified at CORE, neither on the CORE Builders website, the CORE Builders Facebook page, the Land Rover BAR Facebook page, or any other NZ Marine industry website, Facebook page or information site anywhere. 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

1) There are lots of other big names for another event

Like?

2) AC75 latest technology does not exclude another event.

Correct, but it does leave minimal opportunity to promote the AC50's as anything other than another foiling cat regatta. The world watched every other AC50 get dominated by the ETNZ AC50. There is no use in attempting to promote second place boats as the worlds fastest boats, and if they're not the worlds fastest, what are they? Just another foiling cat.

3) I don't know if the other event will happen, but if it does, a cheaper and probably faster boat would attract sponsors.

So not an AC50 then.

 

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6 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The new Sled TP52 was given coverage of its build at CORE, and that was a brand new build. There was photo's of its construction as well as updates as it was being built, and its launch. There are no photo's, no nothing of an AC50, an already established Americas Cup Class yacht arriving at CORE, or being modified at CORE, neither on the CORE Builders website, the CORE Builders Facebook page, the Land Rover BAR Facebook page, or any other NZ Marine industry website, Facebook page or information site anywhere. 

^ That's from October 2017 - Sled is launched. The were hiring in December, though...hmmm.

:)

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2 minutes ago, sclarke said:

There is no use in attempting to promote second place boats as the worlds fastest boats, and if they're not the worlds fastest, what are they? Just another foiling cat.

Unless they are the world's fastest boats. :)

As far as them being AC50s, all classes evolve. Thanks to one design hulls and wings, they will look exactly the same, and their legacy will be intact - they actually ARE AC50s.

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23 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ That's from October 2017 - Sled is launched. The were hiring in December, though...hmmm.

:)

CORE were hiring in December. so they have work to do...big surprise. You know they are a business right? You also know they don't just build race yachts right?

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21 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Unless they are the world's fastest boats. :)

As far as them being AC50s, all classes evolve. Thanks to one design hulls and wings, they will look exactly the same, and their legacy will be intact - they actually ARE AC50s.

Not if they get used outside the AC they're not.

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^ They were used in the America's cup. The class is called "AC50'. I doubt what they are called will matter in any case - if it happens, the draw will be top level teams fully foiling around the course and possibly cracking 50kts in epic venues.

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10 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

And why would the absence of those names prevent the organisation of another event ?

You’re wasting your time. Unless it comes from the mouth of Grumpy, SClarke gets confused. It’s an unfortunate problem with the intellectually challenged. 

He can’t fathom the fact that otherwise useless old Cup boats are being repurposed for a neat series. His brain can’t cope with the fact that it’ll be cool racing despite the fact it isn’t a belly-flopping Jesus lizard looking thing. 

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16 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ They were used in the America's cup. The class is called "AC50'. I doubt what they are called will matter in any case - if it happens, the draw will be top level teams fully foiling around the course and possibly cracking 50kts in epic venues.

Top level teams? Who are these "Top Level Teams" you speak of?

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16 minutes ago, Monkey said:

You’re wasting your time. Unless it comes from the mouth of Grumpy, SClarke gets confused. It’s an unfortunate problem with the intellectually challenged. 

He can’t fathom the fact that otherwise useless old Cup boats are being repurposed for a neat series. His brain can’t cope with the fact that it’ll be cool racing despite the fact it isn’t a belly-flopping Jesus lizard looking thing. 

All I ask is a link, or some information to back up what you guys are saying, and not just "My mate told me his neighbour said" or my best friends Dads Uncles bosses cousins best mates girlfriend knows a guy that works for CORE" There's nothing...not a thing, other than CORE hired some more workers in December! That's literally all there is...they were hiring in December. Sorry if I'm a little sceptical about this series because all you know is apparently CORE were hiring in December.

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33 minutes ago, Monkey said:

You’re wasting your time. Unless it comes from the mouth of Grumpy, SClarke gets confused. It’s an unfortunate problem with the intellectually challenged. 

He can’t fathom the fact that otherwise useless old Cup boats are being repurposed for a neat series. His brain can’t cope with the fact that it’ll be cool racing despite the fact it isn’t a belly-flopping Jesus lizard looking thing. 

I have to aknowledge, it's pretty difficult to make him understand, even basic concepts...

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11 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I have to aknowledge, it's pretty difficult to make him understand, even basic concepts...

Basic concepts like where is the link? or actually answering the question. And not just saying "I heard" and "A mate told me" Even Richard Gladwell (A well respected and knowledgeable sailing enthusiast hasn't reported anything!

You guys have now made statements like "It is confirmed" and "Larry and Torbjorn are funding it" "Russell Coutts is CEO, and Iain Murray is Regatta Director" You even said Dean Barker is involved, when he is already confirmed at least for the rest of 2018. Where is the link to all of these confirmations!?

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

The new Sled TP52 was given coverage of its build at CORE, and that was a brand new build. There was photo's of its construction as well as updates as it was being built, and its launch. There are no photo's, no nothing of an AC50, an already established Americas Cup Class yacht arriving at CORE, or being modified at CORE, neither on the CORE Builders website, the CORE Builders Facebook page, the Land Rover BAR Facebook page, or any other NZ Marine industry website, Facebook page or information site anywhere. 

So what? I am sorry they don't keep you informed but I am not sure they consider that necessary. 

 

3 hours ago, Racing Fast said:

The BAR 50 is at Core...

Correct

9 hours ago, sclarke said:

Because a new event needs sponsors, sponsors need a reason to get involved.

Please explain why they need sponsors? Larry and TT are putting up the money. I am not sure if you are aware, but this is petty cash to them.

 

9 hours ago, sclarke said:

Think about it, no British team means no british audience, no kiwi team means no Kiwi audience, no American team, no American Audience, no Italian Team, no Italian audience, you get the picture right?

More BS. There will be a British team, BAR. Larry is fielding a team. There will be others. The lack of national teams has never stopped people watching good sailing before. Lots of people in the UK watched the AC72's, even though there was no British team. Lots of people watched the 72's in other countries as well.

 

17 hours ago, sclarke said:

You guys always say "I heard" from who? To just say "I heard this" is ridiculous!

I guess it doesn't cross your mind that if I were to say who told me they probably wouldn't tell me anything else.

17 hours ago, sclarke said:

Sure you might see Outteridge, Draper and Percy, but are they really big enough names to carry a brand new series? 

Your list is rather selective. Even if you want to believe that Ainslie won't do it (he will), it's hard to believe Larry would have anybody but Slingsby sailing for him. and there are plenty of others, although i don't have information on anybody other than those mentioned above. How about Goodie - 3 times Moth world champ, Olympic gold medalist and Artemis reserve driver. The list goes on. You have never needed major names in sailing to carry a series, because so few people know those names anyway. I would bet that a majority of people who sail would still not know most of the names you mention while non sailors have even less of an idea. Despite that, series such as the Extremes have done pretty well with a bunch of nobodies.

I do not understand the hate. The AC50's are very cool boats. What's wrong with setting up a circuit for them. Being fleet racing, it's nothing to do with the AC and it will be spectacular. What's not to get excited about? 

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18 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

So what? I am sorry they don't keep you informed but I am not sure they consider that necessary. 

Who considers it necessary! You keep saying "They and "them" Who are "they"??

Correct

Please explain why they need sponsors? Larry and TT are putting up the money. I am not sure if you are aware, but this is petty cash to them.

And they aren't billionaires by being stupid with their cash. Larry didn't even want to fund the AC! Why would he want to fund this?

More BS. There will be a British team, BAR. Larry is fielding a team. There will be others. The lack of national teams has never stopped people watching good sailing before. Lots of people in the UK watched the AC72's, even though there was no British team. Lots of people watched the 72's in other countries as well.

BAR is busy with the Americas Cup, because it means something. Remember #Bringthecuphome? that means the Americas Cup, so if you think he's going to be interested, or able to do anything else over the next 2 years, you're kidding yourself! You yourself said the Americas Cup is too expensive! Now you're saying he's doing that AND an AC50 series? Ridiculous!

I guess it doesn't cross your mind that if I were to say who told me they probably wouldn't tell me anything else.

About what? its not like the AC50's are new! There is no secret! Everyone has already seen how the AC50's perform, and everyone knows what they can do, so why the secrecy?

Your list is rather selective. Even if you want to believe that Ainslie won't do it (he will won't), it's hard to believe Larry would have anybody but Slingsby sailing for him. and there are plenty of others, although i don't have information on anybody other than those mentioned above. How about Goodie - 3 times Moth world champ, Olympic gold medalist and Artemis reserve driver. The list goes on. You have never needed major names in sailing to carry a series, because so few people know those names anyway. I would bet that a majority of people who sail would still not know most of the names you mention while non sailors have even less of an idea. Despite that, series such as the Extremes have done pretty well with a bunch of nobodies.

I do not understand the hate. The AC50's are very cool boats. What's wrong with setting up a circuit for them. Being fleet racing, it's nothing to do with the AC and it will be spectacular. What's not to get excited about? 

 

There we have it! You've gone from this is confirmed, and that is confirmed, funding was confirmed, A CEO was appointed as well as a Regatta Director NOw its "I don't have any information" and "How about this person" Yesterday teams were confirmed and big names were involved. now you're wondering who might suit the series... Next time, just say..."I DONT KNOW"

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17 minutes ago, sclarke said:

There we have it! You've gone from this is confirmed, and that is confirmed, funding was confirmed, A CEO was appointed as well as a Regatta Director NOw its "I don't have any information" and "How about this person" Yesterday teams were confirmed and big names were involved. now you're wondering who might suit the series... Next time, just say..."I DONT KNOW"

Don't try to be a smart arse by parsing words. I said very clearly that I have no other information other than about the people I mentioned.That is completely different from what you are saying. It is you who is saying there are no big names. I have been pretty clear about who will be involved.

 

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46 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Basic concepts like where is the link? or actually answering the question. And not just saying "I heard" and "A mate told me" Even Richard Gladwell (A well respected and knowledgeable sailing enthusiast hasn't reported anything!

You guys have now made statements like "It is confirmed" and "Larry and Torbjorn are funding it" "Russell Coutts is CEO, and Iain Murray is Regatta Director" You even said Dean Barker is involved, when he is already confirmed at least for the rest of 2018. Where is the link to all of these confirmations!?

 

Sclarke, you make a good NZ fan with fantastic arguments and logic.

Yep, there won't be another event because the only good sailors will be at the AC, because there would be no sponsors, because a new AC 50 would be from a later tech than the AC75, and because they would be slower than fastest ever, NZ AC50. :lol:

 

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26 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

 

Sclarke, you make a good NZ fan with fantastic arguments and logic.

Yep, there won't be another event because the only good sailors will be at the AC, because there would be no sponsors, because a new AC 50 would be from a later tech than the AC75, and because they would be slower than fastest ever, NZ AC50. :lol:

 

Tornado Cat, so I asked some very valid questions which were never answered, like which teams were involved? because you had "Heard" then you made some wild, outlandish claims like "The AC50 series is all go" and "The boats are being modified at Core" and "The BAR AC50 is at CORE now" and "Larry and Torbjorn are funding it" and "Big names are involved, Even Ben Ainslie and his Land Rover BAR team" and "Russell Coutts is CEO" and "Iain Murray is Regatta Director" and "Bermuda is confirmed as a host venue" but you've provided no links, nothing to back up those claims. No other website, not Sail-World, not Scuttlebutt, not cup experience, not Sail NZ, not any blogs, not even on any Facebook pages! The Oracle Facebook page is still showing clips from last year and the Land Rover BAR page is all about the PAC52 series and the Americas Cup. You have nothing...just "I heard through a mate"
 

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everyone is talking about there being no "big names" involved with this thing

you guys really think that there is any big names in sailing?

to be honest, ben ainsley is as big as you get, and it's all national knowledge. aussies would know of slingsby, outteridge and jensen while kiwis know about tuke and burling, i haven't named them all but you get the idea.

but i think that Ben Ainsley would be as close as you can get to a celebrity, and he could walk around in public no worries.

there are plenty of big enough names that will not be in the AC that will do this if it gets going, but no matter the names, nearly no non sailor will know of them, then looking at sailors, names like tom slingsby and others will attract a shit ton of attention anyway

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31 minutes ago, inebriated said:

everyone is talking about there being no "big names" involved with this thing

you guys really think that there is any big names in sailing?

to be honest, ben ainsley is as big as you get, and it's all national knowledge. aussies would know of slingsby, outteridge and jensen while kiwis know about tuke and burling, i haven't named them all but you get the idea.

but i think that Ben Ainsley would be as close as you can get to a celebrity, and he could walk around in public no worries.

there are plenty of big enough names that will not be in the AC that will do this if it gets going, but no matter the names, nearly no non sailor will know of them, then looking at sailors, names like tom slingsby and others will attract a shit ton of attention anyway

If you look at the last Americas Cup in Bermuda, you look at the names involved, then look at those who were left who were not doing the AC, there are plenty of good names outside of the AC, there were regattas still held outside of the AC, but those regattas don't have the prestige of the Americas Cup. The 52 Super Series, the RC44 Championship, the GC32 and ESS, they all had good names, and they all attracted attention, but none compare to the Americas Cup. The good sailors compete in annual series, the great sailors compete in the Americas Cup. That won't change. Even if the new series does get off the ground, the AC50's deserve the prestige they gained in the AC, not being watered down to some mediocre one design, global circus that no one cares about. The AC50's deserve to be remembered for what they brought to the AC. 

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