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Larry's AC50 Circus

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Completely agree they are both extreme! There's only one been one group that has been desperate to claim one is faster than the other...

My notion of lower/wetter was more to indicate flight time...

How do they drain the cockpits?  

Brits took a dive at bottom mark & just sat there doing 3-4 kts then popped up and got it going again.   Powered bilge pumps?

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3 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

How do they drain the cockpits?  

Brits took a dive at bottom mark & just sat there doing 3-4 kts then popped up and got it going again.   Powered bilge pumps?

Good question, I'll ask

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'd agree with this, but not because of the racing, which was pretty damned good overall with some great dramatic moments.

The problem is that the production team just isn't on the ball.  Not sure if it is because Russell picked a cheap bid or because of the usual sailing-based issues (nepotism, etc.), but they make basic mistakes that live-streamed series have already figured out and they make the SailGP broadcast look positively amateurish and way behind the times.

It's the technical equivalent of how Jody and Shirley kept saying shit about 'anyone still think there's no tactics in foiling races?" or "30 knots and they're millimeters apart!! like it was news and like we haven't all been watching high-speed live cat racing for a decade already.

 

 

 

 

 

Final analysis....over-hyped yawn fest. They make an overly excited NASCAR announcer seem calm.

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2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

TC mate - if that's the best rebuttal you've got I'll take that as a win - cheers! :-)

I guess the win is for me ;)

On the other hand you are right to say that the F50s are not 15% faster than the AC50 but I don't think they have 2 sets of foils and I guess that they use pretty average foils for the first year knowing they have new teams. I hope they soon use high wind sets.

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

All teams would have had their arses kicked by the Kiwi boat. We didn't see dry laps, far from it, despite sea state

You speak of dry laps but conveniently forget the TNZ capsized in ligther conditions, not so dry :) 

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20 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You speak of dry laps but conveniently forget the TNZ capsized in ligther conditions, not so dry :) 

Shit happens. We also saw plenty of dry laps and smoother maneuvers. 

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38 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You speak of dry laps but conveniently forget the TNZ capsized in ligther conditions, not so dry :) 

One incident.! Who cares, we are talking about their general sailing consistency around the racing track. 

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29 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Shit happens. We also saw plenty of dry laps and smoother computer assist maneuvers. 

Computer assist maneuvers and crash.

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5 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Computer assist innovative control system maneuvers and crash.

 

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3 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ Innovative computer assist crash system :lol:

Well, at least you got the innovative part right...nobody's perfect

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I guess the win is for me ;)

On the other hand you are right to say that the F50s are not 15% faster than the AC50 but I don't think they have 2 sets of foils and I guess that they use pretty average foils for the first year knowing they have new teams. I hope they soon use high wind sets.

In the intro video, it was said, each team has 2 sets of foils. One for light wind and a set for heavy air as well.

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In all seriousness, the one obvious difference between the AC50, and F50, is the AC50, ETNZ especially, had the ability to effectively pivot on one foil through maneuvers, making for a faster, sharper turn which kept the boat on its foils easier and more regularly than the F50. Its the difference between "spinning" and "turning" The F50 definitely is not a step up on the AC50, and no amount of time in the boat will change that. Its almost as if the F50 designers focused on speed over the ground, instead of the overall performance, and it shows. 

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

It seems the teams need more time on the water. All teams would have had their arses kicked by the Kiwi boat and I suppose this is to be expected given the hours spent sailing during the AC vs SAILGP.  We didn't see dry laps, far from it, despite sea state. Sunday provided perfect conditions and we had a dramatic improvement from teak UK and team USA but the others still a way off. It was a much better spectacle this time around so Kudos for that. 

I've been saying all along this is the Achilles heel of the series. Perhaps as to not put too many miles on the boats, perhaps money to shorecrew..not sure. Boats were starting to show gremlins this time with being worked harder, and now 2 races in them.

Things would certainly pick up next season if there were a month long training camp in the off season. They just have to find Nathan something else to do or he will still kick but.

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3 hours ago, Herfy said:

UK and the USA teams now have a few days of total time in the boat.  Also, they changed the foil control system since Sydney.  I would suspect that a team such as NZ would beat these teams, but I don't think the ETNZ boat is any faster than these boats. 

Seriously, GTF would be in the thick of this fleet at this stage, with their AC50!

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16 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Ha, not anymore! Finally in a business where i get paid fair wages for fair work, which ain't how sailing media works.  For instance, Jody can afford to be there for what he is getting paid, which is next to nothing, Charlie is free, Shirley is getting paid by her World Sailing Show contract, and the british douche is there for a holiday.  Good try though!

Glad to hear that you might finally be able to earn the coin to pay for your lifestyle. But if that is the case, why take poorly worded pot shots from the sidelines?

Moreover, what & the tone you wrote, can only be interpreted as the jilted ex with a jealous/mean streak..........who longs to still have a say.

If you going to condense your thoughts to Twitter like Trumpisms then I (and I am sure others) will call you out. ;)

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Pretty sure the “British Douche”doesn’t care what  clean thinks. A 15+ year career fronting national tv, coverage for Redbull and Eurosport and multiple Olympic Games host slots probably mean not a single fuck has been given. 

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I was surprised to see that in addition to the AC and taking over SKY cycling funding he is also funding the INEOS 1:59 attempt to have his sponsored athletes do the marathon distance in under two hours this year....  I lot of money flowing around. So, yes, I am sure he gives no fucks....

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Saw somewhere maybe fb that China Team are going to do GC32s before NYC. Good idea.

"Focused on speed over the ground, instead of overall performance" Hahaha. Some men, er people really focus on size, er speed.  

I think with experience the F50s will be pivoted.

Comparison of (1) a boat and team that had solid history of team experience on boat and training before performance widely demonstrated (eg ETNZ AC50 aka the greatest boat that ever is) with (2) a different boat with a short/very short history of team exper on boat and training (eg the F50 teams) will always be inconclusive. Wait till team experience and training match up before writing off the F50s. 

The glitchy sw/hw is a problem. Better figure out why. Maybe they are getting forcefully wetter than planned or waterproofing integrity getting stressed with all the buried bows and extreme heels. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Boink said:

why take poorly worded pot shots from the sidelines?

 

'cause fun

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Pretty sure the “British Douche”doesn’t care what  clean thinks. A 15+ year career fronting national tv, coverage for Redbull and Eurosport and multiple Olympic Games host slots probably mean not a single fuck has been given. 

Nope, and he can add SailGP to his failures column.  Everyone has some.

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Interview with O Herledant of the French team. Google translates it for me in the browser.  

He talks about contrasts with AC, likes identical boats, admits to being in D2 of the teams but hopes they move up like GB is progressing. Other than grinders, no reason why male gender is a requirement.

French have seemed more forthcoming about money matters and dynamics (there was an interview a few months ago where they talked about how the $5M got allocated) maybe they just don't give a fuck or figure GP is not translating every press interview.

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/sail-gp-herledant-on-est-en-d2-pour-l-instant-06-05-2019-12276753.php

It's apparently part time pay, so sailors have to do multiple circuits eg he does GC32. So payroll pressure may be limiting training.  I'd have frontloaded that $$ a bit more if I were RC but what do I know pounding away critivizing on my Android while Elon is landing rockets on drone barges...

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55 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Nope, and he can add SailGP to his failures column.  Everyone has some.

I will be sure to pass your in depth critique on.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

I will be sure to pass your in depth critique on.

 

 

you don't need to, the viewers counts already did

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8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you don't need to, the viewers counts already did

Did you see the Sydney event clean? Now that was some painful commentary. Hell, you and sailor girl would have done better even if you were 2 flats of rum mixers down.

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11 minutes ago, barfy said:

Did you see the Sydney event clean? Now that was some painful commentary. Hell, you and sailor girl would have done better even if you were 2 flats of rum mixers down.

No I unfortunately did not, but it's always the same when you have a production team that doesn't have a strong plan or good funding, and you can always tell who those are because they don't have a solid team hired for the duration of a season.  Whenever you see 'guest commentators', you know you're dealing with something with a bullshit budget.  You sure don't see random guest commentator when you watch NFL or UFC or World Cup or F1 but for some reason top-end pro sailing events still try to get something for nothing and always seem surprised when no one watches their shit.

To be fair to the San Fran team, Jody is a great play-by-play guy when he has a well-researched color commentator. I think we did a day together on camera back at the Moth Worlds in Melbourne.  But Shirley is seriously awful at it and he ended up having to do both jobs.  Aside from being 100 years old and maybe not having the sharpest eyes or brain anymore, she doesn't seem to pay attention to what is going on, and relies solely on her knowledge rather than doing research.  

And sailor girl may be annoying as an interviewer but she is a fantastic analyst and has a great eye for a race as it develops.  Actually Jody and Nic would be a lot more solid than what they had in SF, though with the director they had and the clear financial restraints, I'm not sure anyone could've done enough talking to get good numbers.

 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

 

It's apparently part time pay, so sailors have to do multiple circuits eg he does GC32. So payroll pressure may be limiting training.  I'd have frontloaded that $$ a bit more if I were RC but what do I know pounding away critivizing on my Android while Elon is landing rockets on drone barges...

Million bucks to winner SailGP yes?   How much for GC32?   

More to be gained at SailGP beyond big prize.   GC ‘s just don’t generate same buzz as 50’s. 

 

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^yeah million divided among team, 5 or 20 or however they count for inclusion in jackpot. 

I think the point is (read translation or French) is it is not a yearlong steady income or even as much as AC and you need other gigs.  You get visibility sure but you need the gig $ too. 

 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you don't need to, the viewers counts already did

Oh that can be directly attributed to Ed Leigh can it? 

Seriously you didnt watch the first event and have just sniped at the second.

rolling out another “who the fuck is that” sailer or forum guy is going mean jack shit to the public ( the non sailing public who are arguably more important to attract than you) 

As for Shirley? She could and probably would whoop your ass around a race course despite being “so old” better to have been and done it on the world stage you think?

this is Alan from a forum 

this is Shirley an Olympic champion and world champion 

who for the masses is likely to hold more appeal? It ain’t you. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

No I unfortunately did not,

Well you didn't miss anything. The sailing was shit,and the commentary was abysmal.

My point was I reckon sailgp lifted their production game hugely from the first show. I enjoy Jody's spiel, Shirley was 10x better than the last effort, so overall a win even to the most critical eye.

I hope they build on their strengths here, and keep their eye on the prize..which is to get a following and attract new viewers, not just get the boats around the track.

Problem is they just finished at the best venue in the heap, need some serious sacrifice to the weather gods to improve on SF.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

^yeah million divided among team, 5 or 20 or however they count for inclusion in jackpot. 

I think the point is (read translation or French) is it is not a yearlong steady income or even as much as AC and you need other gigs.  You get visibility sure but you need the gig $ too. 

 

Not sure why we're talking about the yearlong steady income (looks like I missed the initial post). Anyway, is there a regatta series that provides this kind of security, except maybe the AC for some years and the VOR for 18 months? The grand prix style regatta series probably don't.

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13 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Nor sure why we're talking about the yearlong steady income (looks like I missed the initial post). Anyway, is there a regatta series that provides this kind of security, except maybe the AC for some years and the VOR for 18 months? The grand prix style regatta series probably don't.

The relevance of SailGP being one of several gigs (part time or sequential jobs) is that there may be a limit on number of days budgeted for team employment,  That limit may be why they did not all spend a month at a time sailing to get really good/even up the teams in the beginning.  On the bright side' "It's not to time consuming."

Excerpt from article, emphasis added:  

 

Does the Sail GP Tour pay more than the America's Cup?

No, because it's a different formula. We are not full time here, unlike the Team France project where we were constantly mobilized. We were doing more than 20 days a month and, as we approached the America's Cup, it was six days a week. So the America's Cup paid better. There, in Sail GP, we almost all have a circuit, or two, in parallel because it is not enough to do only the F50. But we are all very happy to be there because it is a formula that is not too time consuming and allows us to do something else. Personally, I'm on the circuit GC32 with Franck Cammas and it's very interesting, very complementary. They are catamarans equipped with foils but they are lighter, you are more about sensations. It's important to keep that too. In F50,

 


https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/sail-gp-herledant-on-est-en-d2-pour-l-instant-06-05-2019-12276753.php#pDTd0HH57v7mKMuC.99

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

 this kind of security

what kind of security is the kind of security granted by the fickle whim of one Dear Leader? ;-)

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Problem is they just finished at the best venue in the heap, need some serious sacrifice to the weather gods to improve on SF.

From the official SGP PR TC shared (https://sailgp.com/news/50knots-boat-speed-or-not/)

Armed with a new flight control system, on one of the best sailing venues in the world - if the record is to be broken, San Francisco will be the one to witness it.

The record wasn't broken at SF, nor does it even appear anyone bested the AC36 racing speed record(?).

LE be like
 giphy.gif.095c0d4a67e14b43295f6934d563095d.gif

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Oh that can be directly attributed to Ed Leigh can it? 

Nope.  Production is a team sport.  Everyone should share the blame or the accolades.

Seriously you didnt watch the first event and have just sniped at the second.

Not sniped.  Given my opinion.  It's worth whatever you choose to assign to it.

rolling out another “who the fuck is that” sailer or forum guy is going mean jack shit to the public ( the non sailing public who are arguably more important to attract than you) 

Good thing I don't give a jack shit what the public thinks of me when I comment in a forum.

As for Shirley? She could and probably would whoop your ass around a race course despite being “so old” better to have been and done it on the world stage you think?

Probably.  There are countless world champions in every sport who can't talk their way out of a paper bag.  Shirley can talk, but she is a shit commentator.  If you don't believe me, ask the other people who listened

this is Alan from a forum 

this is Shirley an Olympic champion and world champion 

who for the masses is likely to hold more appeal? It ain’t you. 

Cool.  How do you think the masses are going to hear about my comments?  Or for that matter, SailGP, cause they certainly ain't watching it.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

 

I reckon sailgp lifted their production game hugely from the first show. I enjoy Jody's spiel, Shirley was 10x better than the last effort, so overall a win even to the most critical eye.

I hope they build on their strengths here, and keep their eye on the prize..which is to get a following and attract new viewers, not just get the boats around the track.

 

Good input.  I also hope they can accomplish something, but based on what I see and what I've seen in the sport over my 15 years working on it, it won't happen without a better crew, better gear, and a commitment to doing it for a while.  

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4 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

From the official SGP PR TC shared (https://sailgp.com/news/50knots-boat-speed-or-not/)

Armed with a new flight control system, on one of the best sailing venues in the world - if the record is to be broken, San Francisco will be the one to witness it.

The record wasn't broken at SF, nor does it even appear anyone bested the AC36 racing speed record(?).

LE be like
 giphy.gif.095c0d4a67e14b43295f6934d563095d.gif

LOL.  Despite looking old as shit in our Ed.'s closeup over in the SA Caption Contest he seems to have looked happy at the end per the photo by Josh Edelson, probably because no more major damage to anything or body count. 

 

SailGP_San_Fran_AUS_wins_5-5-2019.png

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It is funny reading the stupidity that some write. I particularly like the claims that ETNZ would do better and that they would beat these teams in their AC50. The only way that would happen is if they were training 6 days a week for a year like they did for the AC. With limited training, there is no reason why they would be any better than the top teams. We have seen this with Pete and Blair in the 49er. With lots of training, they used to be unbeatable. Now, with less training, they haven't looked so good.

The reason why the F50's aren't getting as much flight time as the AC50's is nothing to do with the boat and everything to do with the amount of time on the water for the sailors. If they sailed as much as the AC teams, flight time would be the same.

I personally believe the event is far more interesting for the reduced flight time. Where was the excitement in 100% flight time? What we have now is that mistakes lead to coming off foils and this makes for more place changes and more tension, plus some spectacular moments. I hope the organisers keep limiting training time so that no team gets to fly 100% of the time. Racing would be so much more boring if all teams were always airborne.

What tells us that these boats are step up from the AC boats is that novice teams are getting round the course in conditions that were worse than anything experienced in Bermuda despite very little practice and even while using a new flight control system that they had little time to learn. Based on the big wind day in Bermuda, if the AC fleet had raced in those conditions in SF, there would have been carnage.Who knows, there may have even been a pitchpole.:ph34r:

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

LOL.  Despite looking old as shit in our Ed.'s closeup over in the SA Caption Contest he seems to have looked happy at the end per the photo by Josh Edelson, probably because no more major damage to anything or body count. 

 

SailGP_San_Fran_AUS_wins_5-5-2019.png

Looks like the Oracle business unit is out on the water like Bermuda, pretty sure that is Judith Sim , Oracle CMO who signs the corporate sailing checks seated behind Larry.

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On 5/7/2019 at 2:27 AM, blunderfull said:

Is SMT doing the fx package for SailGP?

Noting that SailWorld article this morning had foiling % data for the boats, I’m looking for link to see more same.

Whisper Films which is owned by former F1 driver David Coulthard does teh production of SailGP

https://www.whisperfilms.co.uk/films/view/sail-gp-launch-film-gbr

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

LOL.  Despite looking old as shit in our Ed.'s closeup over in the SA Caption Contest he seems to have looked happy at the end per the photo by Josh Edelson, probably because no more major damage to anything or body count. 

 

SailGP_San_Fran_AUS_wins_5-5-2019.png

Is LE wearing ADIDAS parachute material track suit pants, the ones that were cool in the early 90's that zipped all the way up the sides ?? :o

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5 minutes ago, Flippin Out said:

Is LE wearing ADIDAS parachute material track suit pants, the ones that were cool in the early 90's that zipped all the way up the sides ?? :o

Yup , probably shooting some hoops later...

https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/larry-ellison-oracle-ceo-clippers-suitor-plays-yacht-basketball-while-second-boat-fetches-airballs.html

 

 

 

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i thought the commentary pretty good, the racing much better than sydney, and a fun event to watch. it would be cool to see people just be fans of sailing. lots of action and a perfect venue for this class. if you could take the holding a grudge part out of it , i think most would/should enjoy it. comparing boats and country's here is just dumb. AC35 is over, AC36 is still to come, just watch and enjoy for now.

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8 minutes ago, Flippin Out said:

Whisper Films which is owned by former F1 driver David Coulthard does teh production of SailGP

https://www.whisperfilms.co.uk/films/view/sail-gp-launch-film-gbr

That explains a lot of the tech issues.  All their work up to now is land-based and they only just began live work a couple years ago, and if the learning curve for live stuff on land is a mountain, doing it all on saltwater is a fucking cliff.  They do make sexy highlight reels though and apparently their formula 1 show on UK 4 is awesome although I am too big a fan of the Sky F1 production team so I don't watch it.

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

It is funny reading the stupidity that some write. I particularly like the claims that ETNZ would do better and that they would beat these teams in their AC50. The only way that would happen is if they were training 6 days a week for a year like they did for the AC. With limited training, there is no reason why they would be any better than the top teams. We have seen this with Pete and Blair in the 49er. With lots of training, they used to be unbeatable. Now, with less training, they haven't looked so good.

The reason why the F50's aren't getting as much flight time as the AC50's is nothing to do with the boat and everything to do with the amount of time on the water for the sailors. If they sailed as much as the AC teams, flight time would be the same.

I personally believe the event is far more interesting for the reduced flight time. Where was the excitement in 100% flight time? What we have now is that mistakes lead to coming off foils and this makes for more place changes and more tension, plus some spectacular moments. I hope the organisers keep limiting training time so that no team gets to fly 100% of the time. Racing would be so much more boring if all teams were always airborne.

What tells us that these boats are step up from the AC boats is that novice teams are getting round the course in conditions that were worse than anything experienced in Bermuda despite very little practice and even while using a new flight control system that they had little time to learn. Based on the big wind day in Bermuda, if the AC fleet had raced in those conditions in SF, there would have been carnage.Who knows, there may have even been a pitchpole.:ph34r:

Wait, so you're telling us that if you practice more you get better?
And that ETNZ are only better because they have had more training than the SGP teams? 

6FXdFuRH.jpg.6869dc1acad9ba6495e21405fc3aa475.jpg

And you claim what others write is stupidity...Jesus wept...

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

It is funny reading the stupidity that some write. I particularly like the claims that ETNZ would do better and that they would beat these teams in their AC50. The only way that would happen is if they were training 6 days a week for a year like they did for the AC. With limited training, there is no reason why they would be any better than the top teams. We have seen this with Pete and Blair in the 49er. With lots of training, they used to be unbeatable. Now, with less training, they haven't looked so good.

The reason why the F50's aren't getting as much flight time as the AC50's is nothing to do with the boat and everything to do with the amount of time on the water for the sailors. If they sailed as much as the AC teams, flight time would be the same.

I personally believe the event is far more interesting for the reduced flight time. Where was the excitement in 100% flight time? What we have now is that mistakes lead to coming off foils and this makes for more place changes and more tension, plus some spectacular moments. I hope the organisers keep limiting training time so that no team gets to fly 100% of the time. Racing would be so much more boring if all teams were always airborne.

What tells us that these boats are step up from the AC boats is that novice teams are getting round the course in conditions that were worse than anything experienced in Bermuda despite very little practice and even while using a new flight control system that they had little time to learn. Based on the big wind day in Bermuda, if the AC fleet had raced in those conditions in SF, there would have been carnage.Who knows, there may have even been a pitchpole.:ph34r:

Thats all well and good. But then there's no way to quantify yours, and many others peoples comments saying "The F50 is a step up from the AC50, because when it comes down to it, after the dust is settled and all is said and done, they're not. Whether through bad design or not enough time in the boat, they're not. So we go back to the beginning. The F50 has been re-designed, re-defined etc etc, but does that necessarily make it a better boat, the obvious answer has to be NO. 

One obvious point of difference is the maneuvers, when we get back to basics, the control system on the F50 does not allow a sharp, precise turn as the AC50 control systems did. You can say "time in the boat" all you like, but as we saw in Auckland and Bermuda with the Kiwi's, they were able to execute near flawless maneuvers straight out of the box. ETNZ between the time they packed up in Auckland to the time they arrived in Bermuda had modified their systems, so essentially as Sean Regan stated in the video - Touchdown and Takeoff in Bermuda - the boat they assembled in Bermuda was essentially a "New boat" to the one they had in Auckland, yet they executed flawless maneuvers on the first day. Did they have mis-haps, YES, but one mis hap doesn't discount the consistency they showed every other day. At the end of the day, there is nothing that shows the F50 being any better or faster than the AC50.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

 a better boat, the obvious answer has to be NO. 

Well the boat may indeed be 'better' or in theory faster, but if the sailing and racing isn't better and thus isn't in reality faster then what does it matter?

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6 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Well the boat may indeed be 'better' or in theory faster, but if the sailing and racing isn't better and thus isn't in reality faster then what does it matter?

Exactly. What makes it a better boat? It may hit speeds higher than an AC50 in a straight line for a few seconds with no other competitors around, but if you crash off the foils regularly and your maneuvers aren't as crisp, versus a boat that may be one knot slower but can beat the pants off you and make up for that 1 knot of straight line speed through flawless maneuvers, then, as you say, what does it matter? As it is now, the AC50's are still an all round better package. The Artemis and ETNZ AC50's are still the all round better packages than any of the F50'S. 

The only thing people have to quantify the statement that the F50's are better is their own opinion, they think the F50's are better because Russell Coutts has told them they're better, and they're taking his word for it.

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I prefer to take the word of one of the GBR team that was racing in San Fran

 

the boats are better to sail than the AC50 

limited training time is the issue 

they are still hard work for the grinders

 

 

 

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As for the TNZ boat nailing flawless manoeuvres straight out of the box.

 

either every person on that boat was of a higher sailing skill set than any other team, ( unlikely as some had never sailed before) so as to nail it first up. or as is well known they had a very different and advanced control system that coupled with their power generation meant manoeuvres and ride height were clamped down incredibly tightly. 

They performed the manoeuvres so consistently from the word go till the end there was very little quantifiable improvement with time on the water

other teams with less optimal systems all showed improvement through repetition as the event progressed.

 

the F50 doesn’t have the same configuration as the kiwi ac50 so why would they be able to manoeuvre with the same precision when they don’t run the same system for flight control, board or wing control. 

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More selective memory trolling from the ETNZ fanboys. The reason why their boat did so well out of the box was that they had been sailing for months and months on their simulator and their boat behaved on the water in the way the simulator had predicted. Blair had many hundreds of hours experience in flying the boat. The guys "flying" the F50's this last weekend had about 10 hours training. 

For the teams in the AC50's to sail them as well as they did, it to hundreds or even thousands of hours training on simulators and/or the boats themselves.

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

More selective memory trolling from the ETNZ fanboys. The reason why their boat did so well out of the box was that they had been sailing for months and months on their simulator and their boat behaved on the water in the way the simulator had predicted. Blair had many hundreds of hours experience in flying the boat. The guys "flying" the F50's this last weekend had about 10 hours training. 

For the teams in the AC50's to sail them as well as they did, it to hundreds or even thousands of hours training on simulators and/or the boats themselves.

I'm sure I heard on the commentary that the Sail GP teams have also had access to simulators..?

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17 minutes ago, Hemi said:

I'm sure I heard on the commentary that the Sail GP teams have also had access to simulators..?

I think they had access to Artemis' simulator, taking turns.  

12 hours ago, DHFiend said:

Looks like the Oracle business unit is out on the water like Bermuda, pretty sure that is Judith Sim , Oracle CMO who signs the corporate sailing checks seated behind Larry.

Who are the other people? 

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

I prefer to take the word of one of the GBR team that was racing in San Fran

 

the boats are better to sail than the AC50 

 

 

 

 

Which AC50 did he sail on?  If GBR, then duh.

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Clean, seems like your point is that they didn't put the resources in, which seems like part of their MO. I am guessing they keep hoping that an actual broadcaster will want to cover it and provide those resources. But you are coming across as just bitching about the commentators. I like Shirley. She seems compelling to me, but yeah, she isn't the most analytical. I guess that isn't her style, though. And Once they start talking on air, the viewer numbers have already been mostly determined.

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12 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Which AC50 did he sail on?  If GBR, then duh.

It was a comment about the boats overall not specific, still the GBR boat can’t have been that shit it took a win off every team there.

but compared to the kiwi boat they were all inferior In Terms of technical systems and how they operated.

that they don’t have a team in the F50 set up probably explains why their toys didn’t get onto the F50

 

 

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8 minutes ago, nroose said:

Clean, seems like your point is that they didn't put the resources in, which seems like part of their MO. I am guessing they keep hoping that an actual broadcaster will want to cover it and provide those resources. But you are coming across as just bitching about the commentators. I like Shirley. She seems compelling to me, but yeah, she isn't the most analytical. I guess that isn't her style, though. And

I have multiple points, and I mostly just spew them as they come.  I'm glad that you like Shirley.  To me she is starting to sound like Dianne Rehm, but then again she rubbed me the wrong way even before she ran Bora over in her powerboat and then blamed him and his moth for the crash.  

Once they start talking on air, the viewer numbers have already been mostly determined.

Perhaps the most wrong thing I've seen in this thread.  Top broadcasters will always tell you that having great commentators is the linchpin to the success of a live work.

Don't take my word for it.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-05-08 at 11.23.36 AM.png

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Lots of offtopic rambles. Let's talk about stuff that happened on the water.

Race 4(?) final reaching leg -- Nate squeezed Tom pretty aggressively against the top finish marker to the point Tom dropped the windward foil which slowed down the boat pretty violently. Australia says folks got hurt - 'blood everywhere, maybe a cracked rib'. He seemed pretty pissed off.

Final race -- Australia "squeezes back" at the exit of the bottom mark, makes Japan stall off the foils. Even if you have the right of way, is it blameless if you dial up to a point you know the other boat will lose its maneuverability? Also -- electronics failure on the Japanese boat, Nate looking grumpy AF in the final interview.

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14 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

. Even if you have the right of way, is it blameless if you dial up to a point you know the other boat will lose its maneuverability? 

More than blameless; it's an unforced error if you don't.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

More than blameless; it's an unforced error if you don't.

You're risking quite a bit there - gear, life, limb.

In that situation the foiler will first ride high, then slip sideways, then stall and dip. In this case Japan had ran through the first 2 steps quickly and stalled. When Dean Barker skippering for Japan squeezed Ben Ainslie, the gbr boat flew high and skipped sideways quite a bit, landing it's leeward hull on Japan's windward hull. This isn't something anyone can control.

So - roll the dice and if he maims your crew, whatever?

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17 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

You're risking quite a bit there - gear, life, limb.

 

Yep. That's why they wear the kevlar.

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Which AC50 did he sail on?  If GBR, then duh.

Softbank and BAR... 

Plus the whole team mixes in the right circles so I'm pretty sure they have a good reports from outside those two teams. 

Seeming as Oracle and Artemis have pooled boats, technology, staff and sailors for this who have been directly training them. I'd be suprised if they didn't have a good handle on how the AC50s were.

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5 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Lots of offtopic rambles. Let's talk about stuff that happened on the water.

Race 4(?) final reaching leg -- Nate squeezed Tom pretty aggressively against the top finish marker to the point Tom dropped the windward foil which slowed down the boat pretty violently. Australia says folks got hurt - 'blood everywhere, maybe a cracked rib'. He seemed pretty pissed off.

Final race -- Australia "squeezes back" at the exit of the bottom mark, makes Japan stall off the foils. Even if you have the right of way, is it blameless if you dial up to a point you know the other boat will lose its maneuverability? Also -- electronics failure on the Japanese boat, Nate looking grumpy AF in the final interview.

I was disappointed with the mark room call GBR suffered in the final fleet race. I felt they left USA plenty of room. This killed off their pursuit of Aus and the final slot. It felt like GBR really deserved to make the final, that instance and the drop off the foils whilst leading the first race were pretty clear cut moments where they lost their chance.  Certainly most improved.

I saw the strava file from Matt Gottrel from training. Seems their certainly on the limit. 

I think nathans squeeze was fine, leaving the angle too deep for aus to foil in to the finish. Aus should have hung on longer and hoped for the overlap... would have been pretty balsy though!

 

The other questionable moment was the boundary call from Aus on the first downwind. I know you have rights to call for a tack upwind for an obstruction, but downwind surely you can't call for a gybe? The inside boat just needs to give you room, if that room means the boat on boundary has to sail deep rather than gybe and drop of the foil then so be it?

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4 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

It felt like GBR really deserved to make the final,

Pesky colonials not respecting British privilege.

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5 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Just some Update from "Other" Series:

The ESS (Extreme Sailing Series) is DEAD!

Oman Air, Alinghi have joined the GC32 Tour.

 

SailGP & the GC32 Tour will be the Main (foiling) Racing Series this year.

"In 2019 the Extreme Sailing Series brand is set to continue in a new direction, as organisers OC Sport confirm they will cease management of the circuit. Details will be revealed soon"

https://www.extremesailingseries.com/news/view/extreme-sailing-series-2019

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12 hours ago, Hemi said:

I'm sure I heard on the commentary that the Sail GP teams have also had access to simulators..?

Yes they did, for a very limited period of time. The simulator is in the UK and IIRC, each team got a week, so something less than 3% of the amount of time ETNZ used their simulator for before launching their boat. 

For the boats to behave this well with crews who have had so little practice suggests the boats are rather well sorted.

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On 5/7/2019 at 3:47 PM, Tornado-Cat said:

Computer assist maneuvers and crash.

This thing has more buttons than a computer keyboard!

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Can they invert the top of the wing?

I heard him say they can "invert the wing", I presume that means the top?

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16 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

LOL,

That Article is from March 27th, almost 2 months ago. That Series is DEAD. They're losing Key Teams like Oman Air & Alinghi BUT of course you know everything better. ESS have no Sponsor. OC Sport is OUT.

The class is still around, as are the teams. Its effectively just undergone a transformation due to the merger with the GC32 class. It was inevitable once the Extreme 40 was retired in favor of the GC32 Class. 

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8 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The ESS is dead. Most of the Teams will sail the GC32 Tour this year.

Its all Maltas fault!

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11 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

LOL,

That Article is from March 27th, almost 2 months ago. That Series is DEAD. They're losing Key Teams like Oman Air & Alinghi BUT of course you know everything better. ESS have no Sponsor. OC Sport is OUT.

OC owns it. Are they selling it or just letting it die?

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The ESS is dead. Most of the Teams will sail the GC32 Tour this year.

ESS, GC32, Whitbread Round The World Race, Volvo Ocean Race, The Ocean Race. Its evolution.

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6 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

OMG could not resist:

AC50, F50. It's evolution.

 

 

When something "Evolves" it is generally supposed to get better, as the GC32 class has, it has expanded its fleet to ten teams and is also looking at expanding outside of its European circuit. The F50 is a de-evolution of the AC50, meaning it has devolved (gone backwards) instead of evolved.

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44 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Trying to find someone who buys it.

I got 50 bucks

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I got 50 bucks

You're too generous.

Well, I actually loved the EXSS; a bit sad that it obviously ends this way. But that's how things go.

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

You're too generous.

Well, I actually loved the EXSS; a bit sad that it obviously ends this way. But that's how things go.

Back in the day, when there were 12 big fuckoff cats with no forward buoyancy, crewed by the best high speed sailors of their generation, crashing and smashing their way around big cityfronts...it was the tits.  I miss it too.

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2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

OMG could not resist:

AC50, F50. It's evolution.

 

 

AC50 (except the ETNZ  one aka greatest 50 ft cat that ever was or will be), F50.  It's evolution.

Fixed it for NZ correctness.  ;)

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

AC50 (except the ETNZ  one aka greatest 50 ft cat that ever was or will be), F50.  It's De-evolution.

Fixed it for correctness.  ;)

 

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Tip & Shaft reports that Deloitte was hired to estimate SailGP spectators in SF and came up with 20,000 over the 2 days. That includes  but presumably not limited to paid grandstand and spectator boats as well as Oracle guests. 

Wonderhow much Deloitte charged, heck, I will find a guy with a drone and do it for less. If they also toss in a spiffy $700 jacket and guest ride on the F50. Gotta die somehow 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_counting

 

If the spectator venue cost $1m in fees, rent, contractors, caterers, permits (random pick but ought to be ok within factor of 2-3) that is $50 per head.  

Can't get linky to story for you to clicky for details but will cut and paste when I find a computer. 

Edit:  

Clipped section can't do full thing sorry

SAIL GP: TWO DOWN AND WHAT WE KNOW?

20,000 spectators in San Francisco. If there was no official SailGP village in Sydney because of the lack of time to organize it San Francisco was on the mark with a village open to the public and an 800-seat paying stand placed along a dock in front of which passed the F50. Deloitte were charged with making a precise spectator count and reckoned there were 20,000 spectators over the two days of racing. There were 563 (paying) spectator boats officially registered with the organizer representing 4 513 people. 1 486 tickets were sold for the stands were sold and 600 guests (partners) attended the VIP area called the "Adrenaline Lounge", a model to be replicated in Europe, Cowes (10-11 August) and Marseille (20-22 September).

Edited by NeedAClew
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On 5/9/2019 at 5:58 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

OC owns it. Are they selling it or just letting it die?

They just shut it down, along with the whole UK office, quite quietly at the end of last year. They keep claiming it still exists, but that is because they have paid to trade mark the brand, there is nothing happening of any substance.

Boats and all spare parts are for sale. All teams apart from SAP have moved across to the Racing Tour. 

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On 5/9/2019 at 1:17 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

Back in the day, when there were 12 big fuckoff cats with no forward buoyancy, crewed by the best high speed sailors of their generation, crashing and smashing their way around big cityfronts...it was the tits.  I miss it too.

Well I think the foiling A-Class has become a pretty cool fuckoff machine but what’s really cool is we hardly ever nose dive anymore, we just haul ASS. When it get’s really windy, you just put a lot of negative AOA in the rudders and you can have a pretty safe and still very fast ride. Good for us mere mortals (especially when you are 60 years old!).

Love SailGP, thanks Larry and Russell.

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3 hours ago, Potter said:

They just shut it down, along with the whole UK office, quite quietly at the end of last year. They keep claiming it still exists, but that is because they have paid to trade mark the brand, there is nothing happening of any substance.

Boats and all spare parts are for sale. All teams apart from SAP have moved across to the Racing Tour. 

Nothing like a bit of accuracy to settle a discussion eh Potter!

Cheers

SS

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