Offshore 1

Larry's AC50 Circus

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3 hours ago, AClass USA 230 said:

And close quarter racing on foils is probably the best chance to get the non-sailing public engaged in televised sailing. It is spectacular and exciting if the venue can produce at least 8-10 knots of steady wind. Not what the traditional yachties want to hear. I'm still amused by the comments made by the Challenger of Record and the New York Yacht Club after the Bermuda AC concluded that they were returning the AC to its "traditional" roots and then I look at American Magic. Yea right...…….

I'm not sure about that actually.  I suspect fleet racing is outright confusing to the non-sailor.  Match racing is much easier to understand.  You need to know a lot about sailing to enjoy and comprehend a fleet race, let alone a regatta.

I also think that ocean racing (Sydney Hobart/Ocean Race) is important.   The concept is straight forward, there's some romance to the idea, and it stays in the news for days and months.

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59 minutes ago, DHFiend said:

I am not, and have never been an Oracle Team USA fan....  However:

If you talk to the folks I speak with at Oracle they would point out all the ways you are wrong about them not wanting sailing to be for the masses. They could fuck off with their multi time NBA Champions sponsorship and all the Tennis promotion and advocacy  that Mark Hurd drives around the world, but Oracle/Larry (who started sailing in a Ericson 35) still dump fuck tons of cash into sailing and get nothing but shit for it with the F50.  

 

LE supposedly started in a Lido 14 but that might just have sounded better.  He does dump tons of cash into sailing and boats but I am sure he finds utility in it or he'd reallocate. 

Actually wasn't it Evil Ernie who started expanding the AC "global tour" with the Acts? EB is still racing GC32s.  

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33 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

LE supposedly started in a Lido 14 but that might just have sounded better.  He does dump tons of cash into sailing and boats but I am sure he finds utility in it or he'd reallocate. 

Actually wasn't it Evil Ernie who started expanding the AC "global tour" with the Acts? EB is still racing GC32s.  

Correct - but the AC WCS (or whatever it was called) was scheduled with more cities and annual I thought.  While the IACC events like Moet Cup and ACTs , which i thought were mostly in Spain anyway, they were never done in a global construct that could create a year round sporting cycle to bridge the AC outside of Europe. 

 

 

Capture.PNG

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2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

LE supposedly started in a Lido 14 but that might just have sounded better.  He does dump tons of cash into sailing and boats but I am sure he finds utility in it or he'd reallocate. 

Actually wasn't it Evil Ernie who started expanding the AC "global tour" with the Acts? EB is still racing GC32s.  

Ernie and Larry dreamed this up together. 

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5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Aha, the Ed gets it, now I get it too, ROFLMAO

BTW, SailGP is hardly a high profile event yet, and they already have one very big sponsor, Oracle & Co.

And Oracle, Larry, Wussell and Rolex don't give a fuck about common non-sailors, not one iota. Ego (owning a GP and all the teams), pr/business relations, and the shit rich, is what it is all about, believe me.

 

 

Oracle are not a real sponsor.  Larry pays for it out of his own pocket. 

And I don't think they give one iota for pr/business relations and certainly not for randoms.  SailGP is all about Larry's love for sailing, Russell's brilliance at dreaming up ways to spend Larry's money, and Larry's Post-Bermuda ego.  Not necessarily in that order.

 

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26 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Oracle are not a real sponsor.  Larry pays for it out of his own pocket. 

And I don't think they give one iota for pr/business relations and certainly not for randoms.  SailGP is all about Larry's love for sailing, Russell's brilliance at dreaming up ways to spend Larry's money, and Larry's Post-Bermuda ego.  Not necessarily in that order.

 

100%

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Not a real sponsor.  Well it IS self dealing of a sort. Oracle gets their name on the boats, powered by Oracle Cloud on the app and TV and in some press, tweets and FBs about it and had 600 people in the Corp hospitality area per the Deloitte numbers noted above. So if the corporation  did not pay a dime for any of that, cool. I bet they did. LE may own a third of the company but not sure he paid for all that himself. They are hungry for cloud customers so SGP might have gotten free cloud credits, lol.

 

Addendum: will look for "transaction with related persons" part of Oracle annual shareholder meeting proxy statement, lol.

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3 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

^Nice picture!

They were impressive to watch banging off the St Francis breakwall, tack after tack. I Think it was Bertarelli that said “ I have never called for sea room in a Match race, that was crazy!”.. it was Owner Driver for 50% of the races which was cool. Larry v. Ernesto.

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Stadium signings, sailing, tennis and smaller things like the Oracle sponsored stunt pilots all come from the same marketing and PR budgets... The CMO was on the powerboat during the F50 event with Ellison. What shows how serious he is about the sport is when you enter Building 500 it is all sailing, and then you sit in the big Ellison/Hurd conf room , it is nice , the tip of Dogzilla (display) mast is right outside the window....

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Televised sailing events aimed at just the sailor are doomed to fail.

I read your article and its bollocks.

Who the fuck is gonna watch sailing events that even sailors don't want to watch?

 

All those other sports when you watch them they're going to have a bunch of commentators who were top end competitors and they don't bother to baby talk like that you need to pass the ball backwards in Rugby while you're watching the Rugby World Cup.

 

Most of those viewers may not play actively now but a large number of them will have done as kids.

 

Sailing event after sailing event falls for that bullshit argument that you need to attract non-sailors, event after event has commentators boringly repeating the same incredibly basic aspects of sailing and never getting into the interesting technical details and event after event that non-sailor audience completely fails to eventuate while people who know about sailing are left bitter at the shitty coverage.

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Oracle are not a real sponsor.  Larry pays for it out of his own pocket. 

And I don't think they give one iota for pr/business relations and certainly not for randoms.  SailGP is all about Larry's love for sailing, Russell's brilliance at dreaming up ways to spend Larry's money, and Larry's Post-Bermuda ego.  Not necessarily in that order.

 

You are wrong, Oracle is definitely a real sponsor, I read it on the internet!

Are there any sponsors involved?

 Yes. British luxury car brand Land Rover, French fashion house and luxury retailer Louis Vuitton, and American global computer technology company Oracle Corporation, are all sponsor partners of SailGP.

https://yachtracing.life/what-is-sailgp/

And did you read NeedAClew's post (#3631 & 3640)?  Being Spinbot's sister-in-law, she must be well informed, and always right.

We do entirely agree on the ego trip, for both Larry and Wussell, and their love of sailing and money.  For both of them ego first, they already have plenty of money, and the love of sailing we all share.

 

 

Edited by Fiji Bitter
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^if people think my Sponsor spin is positive I need to write better thanks for the critique

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12 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Aha, the Ed gets it, now I get it too, ROFLMAO

And Oracle, Larry, Wussell and Rolex don't give a fuck about common non-sailors, not one iota. Ego (owning a GP and all the teams), pr/business relations, and the shit rich, is what it is all about, believe me.

Clueless and baseless interpretations Bitter Fiji, you are not even able to follow your own nonsensical logic.

Clueless because RC had this project for a long time, much before working for LE.

Nonsensical because you say don't give a shit about the public and later you tell us they have sponsors who care about the public, the non-sailors.

Let's go back to the basics, as they are not in the AC now they are free to shape their project which is supposed to be self sustained, therefore needs sponsors and public.

Is he going to succeed where everyone failed with the sailing sport ? Well, as a sailor I hope so.

Do they have ego ? Yes

Are they going to use it for their PR ? Yes.

Stupid comments indeed.

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

^if people think my Sponsor spin is positive I need to write better thanks for the critique

Sorry Needy, I was merely trying to mistify Clean a bit, and did not mean to infer that you were spinning at all. To the contrary, we were very much on the same page actually.

You seem to have your own independent view on the AC, without any rancor. Quite refreshing in the AC forums really, please carry on as usual.

 

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Yeah total rooks, who would want them on the team...

 

are you an utter twat or do you just try really hard? 

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:08 PM, hoom said:

Officially up on the Youtube channel now

 

There are definitely some pretty impressive moments with 6 of these things close together.

Hopefully other venues will have decent courses/conditions too.

 

They need to either sort their shit out with the post-race interview audio or outright give up on it.

I only last night got around to watching this. And I have to say: it's fun to watch. 

Sure, the commentary still leaves something to be desired even though vastly improved over Bermuda. They still miss too many things as they happen like failing to point out a shift until quite a while after it has become obvious. And sure the interview fails are annoying. Still, vastly improved presentation even though they have three times as many boats to cover at a time. 

Overall, really great entertainment. 

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23 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Speaking of the rich, there is now a superyacht program for SailGP.  Posting this is not an endorsement. ;)

 

https://www.bwayachting.com/news/

 

Now they are getting the target market sorted out. It's always a Bugger to get amongst the unwashed masses swinging on anchor with yur super yacht, especially if they had the audacity to anchor first. 

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On 5/15/2019 at 2:21 AM, mcexley001 said:

Chopped up and discarded.  Here's an Artemis 45 chopped up and stashed near the entrance to the man-made island in Dockyard in Bermuda:

The front fell off.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Now they are getting the target market sorted out. It's always a Bugger to get amongst the unwashed masses swinging on anchor with yur super yacht, especially if they had the audacity to anchor first. 

No worries Barf, according to Tornado-Rat all superyachts will have free access for the public, the non-sailors and unwashed hobo's, their real target market. Those who dare turning up will also be presented with a Rolex and a Louis Vuitton bag. 

After all, Larry and Wussell want to spread the love, get it?

 

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3 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

No worries Barf, according to Tornado-Rat all superyachts will have free access for the public, the non-sailors and unwashed hobo's, their real target market. Those who dare turning up will also be presented with a Rolex and a Louis Vuitton bag. 

After all, Larry and Wussell want to spread the love, get it?

 

Some more nonsense Bitter fiji.

So your logic is that super yachts means that they don't want to get the general public ? That they invested in virtual races and TV to please happy fews ? That Larry got rich by spending money to please rich buddies? That Russell just want to please the ultrarich ?

You have the right to hate them but don't take them for the idiot your are.

 

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^ And you must be awfully naive not to know that pleasing rich buddies (doing business on the weekend), is a good way to get rich/stay rich in 'certain places' - "lower my taxes, kill the unions, bail me out, place tariffs on my competition, change the law, 'incentivise' my business, drop the charges........."

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On 5/13/2019 at 8:49 PM, blunderfull said:

Uncle Ernie?

They looked at it, as I understand Russell's involvement killed any chance of them joining. 

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22 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If you think Larry is organizing SailGP to please friends and get richer you are completely delusional mate.

Well he’s definitely not doing it for charity or the good of sailing   :lol:

who's the delusional one here? 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Well he’s definitely not doing it for charity or the good of sailing   :lol:

who's the delusional one here? 

You must be mad to write I said he was Saint Larry the benevolant. :lol:

But, on the other hand, if you think organising sailing event is a way to get rich, why don't you organize one yourself ? :rolleyes:

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What kind of an argument is this?
Being a dentist is also a way to get rich. So, why is not everyone a dentist?

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41 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You must be mad to write I said he was Saint Larry the benevolant. :lol:

But, on the other hand, if you think organising sailing event is a way to get rich, why don't you organize one yourself ? :rolleyes:

I was actually referring to Russell, had I the financial resources of LE, I’m sure I wouldn’t care about the money either. 

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25 minutes ago, mad said:

I was actually referring to Russell,

None of us can tell the real motivation of someone else, hpwever Russell had this vision for a long time, to create a self sustained sailing event with fast cats. Whether we like him, and Larry or not, whether some see that as a competitive event to the AC or not, as a sailor I hope sailing will one day be a profitable sport for sponsors, which remains to be seen.

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Russell had this vision for a long time, to create a self sustained sailing event

You do mean full time gig?

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11 minutes ago, barfy said:

You do mean full time gig?

Didn’t that start when he joined Larry??

 I don’t blame him, I hope he’s made a shitload of money from it all. 

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26 minutes ago, mad said:

Didn’t that start when he joined Larry??

 I don’t blame him, I hope he’s made a shitload of money from it all. 

Totally. Just don't tell me he is doing it all for his vision. I know you didn't, but I've heard it otherwise. And it must be nice to have a big$$$ gig doing what you enjoy, and making sure you'll do the same next year.

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I fact I would like more sailors to do a shitload of money, for that the sport has to be profitable. And SailGP is the most advanced event now.

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58 minutes ago, barfy said:

Totally. Just don't tell me he is doing it all for his vision. I know you didn't, but I've heard it otherwise. And it must be nice to have a big$$$ gig doing what you enjoy, and making sure you'll do the same next year.

It’$ all in the vi$ion. Fun boats, his own circuit and a private backer. Oh, yes and enough to happily retire on years ago. 

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48 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

RC was listed on the NZ Rich List in 2017 with a net worth of $55m even if that is $NZ that is not just scraping by.  

https://www.mysailing.com.au/america-s-cup/there-s-money-in-sailing-sir-russell-coutts-named-on-nz-s-rich-list

A tiny fraction of Michael Jordan fortune worth 1,5 Billion, and most basket players. Only a wide public can bring that, what is going make sailing attract it, the AC or SailGP ?

https://wealthygorilla.com/richest-nba-players-world/

 

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21 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

A tiny fraction of Michael Jordan fortune worth 1,5 Billion, and most basket players. Only a wide public can bring that, what is going make sailing attract it, the AC or SailGP ?

 

Neither...... The only way the level of income that your top sportsman in other sports can be paid is if the audience watching that sport is huge enough for a combination of the ticket, tv rights, advertising, private/corporate sponsorship and any other income streams that can be generated to cover those salaries. I've no idea what the final viewing figures for any sailing event have been, but I'd lay good money that the top rated single event in sailing has lower viewing figures than your average weekly match in the top levels of the high paying sports like basketball, American football, Baseball, soccer etc. 

Let's face it, even to those who love and really understand the technicalities of yacht racing, watching it is pretty dull. I say that as someone who has watched pretty much every AC race either on the tv or the water since Fremantle. There is no way no matter how hard people try and polish it the turd that is yacht racing can be turned into a wonderful viewing experience that will draw the big numbers required to pay the crews the sort of money sportsman in other sports can command.

Sure there's a few who've made good money out of their involvement, but at any one time I doubt there's more than a dozen or so making in a year what the likes of the top athletes in say soccer earn in a month.

Personally I find the dumbing down of the commentries of most events bloody annoying and a total waste of time.......no-ones listening.

 

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1 hour ago, Woolfy said:

Neither...... The only way the level of income that your top sportsman in other sports can be paid is if the audience watching that sport is huge enough for a combination of the ticket, tv rights, advertising, private/corporate sponsorship and any other income streams that can be generated to cover those salaries. I've no idea what the final viewing figures for any sailing event have been, but I'd lay good money that the top rated single event in sailing has lower viewing figures than your average weekly match in the top levels of the high paying sports like basketball, American football, Baseball, soccer etc. 

Let's face it, even to those who love and really understand the technicalities of yacht racing, watching it is pretty dull. I say that as someone who has watched pretty much every AC race either on the tv or the water since Fremantle. There is no way no matter how hard people try and polish it the turd that is yacht racing can be turned into a wonderful viewing experience that will draw the big numbers required to pay the crews the sort of money sportsman in other sports can command.

Sure there's a few who've made good money out of their involvement, but at any one time I doubt there's more than a dozen or so making in a year what the likes of the top athletes in say soccer earn in a month.

Personally I find the dumbing down of the commentries of most events bloody annoying and a total waste of time.......no-ones listening.

 

Agree, but it was far better in the last two ACs then before. Technology helped. Now you actually know who is leading a race in the middle of a leg.

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9 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Let's face it, even to those who love and really understand the technicalities of yacht racing, watching it is pretty dull. I say that as someone who has watched pretty much every AC race either on the tv or the water since Fremantle. There is no way no matter how hard people try and polish it the turd that is yacht racing can be turned into a wonderful viewing experience that will draw the big numbers required to pay the crews the sort of money sportsman in other sports can command.

 

This was true before, when watching the grass grow at least you could understant what happened.

The bet from Larrry, Russell, and probably Ernie if Russell was not there, is to make it interesting with:

- Speed and foiling

- Live line graphics for those who don't understand. And they don't want comments for sailors, they target a broad audience

- TV coverage.

The next AC will follow on pretty much the same pattern because it's the only way to TRY to make it profitable.

So, we will have two events with two different boats, let's hope that at least one of it will succeed to attract the public, which is far from sure. SailGP has the advantage of experience and learning curve, the AC has the advantage of being the AC. We now have to watch who will organize the more successful event with the best boat.

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For the players, eg NBA, a lot of income  comes from corporate sponsorship deals. Nike paid Rory McIlroy hundreds of millions for GOLF for gods sake.  The idea is ordinary golfers and ordinary fans go get inspired to buy Nike logo shoes, headbands, clubs, shirts, etc.  Seems to work. Mr Clew has Tiger Woods polos and does not play golf.

RC is doing very well on salary/bonus and I think I recall a watch deal?  But as of yet Mr Clew is unsure what kind of undies, t shirts, compression shorts, etc. RC and "the boys" wear so cannot go get him some for his birthday. The SailGP items lack enough cachet yet for me to pay $140 for a hoodie or $30-$60 for a cap. Can buy a lot of Mt. Gay for that.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

We now have to watch who will organize the more successful event with the best boat.

That might be 2 different things. For the broadest audience, best event to watch may not have the fastest boat, but be more watchable and exciting and suspenseful and compelling. 

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24 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

For the players, eg NBA, a lot of income  comes from corporate sponsorship deals. Nike paid Rory McIlroy hundreds of millions for GOLF for gods sake.  The idea is ordinary golfers and ordinary fans go get inspired to buy Nike logo shoes, headbands, clubs, shirts, etc.  Seems to work. Mr Clew has Tiger Woods polos and does not play golf.

RC is doing very well on salary/bonus and I think I recall a watch deal?  But as of yet Mr Clew is unsure what kind of undies, t shirts, compression shorts, etc. RC and "the boys" wear so cannot go get him some for his birthday. The SailGP items lack enough cachet yet for me to pay $140 for a hoodie or $30-$60 for a cap. Can buy a lot of Mt. Gay for that.

 

 

Stick with the special edition Mt Gay, much better than walking around as an unpaid billboard. 

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17 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

SailGP will be the only Foiling Series for the forseeable Future to be broadcasted on TV. The GC32 Tour doesn't have any TV Arrangements.

I hope we have two with the AC. However we have rumors that the mule has to be tracted to start foiling, mini frack had safety buoyancy around, the italians tell that the boat will be very difficult. An AC75 crash at 40 kts could be pretty devastating.

Anyway, very anxious to see one sailing.

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Actually the "revolution" in TV coverage for sailing happened in 1992 when Animation Research developed and delivered Virtual Eye - the first live GPS + 3d visualisation tech for the America's Cup - AR went on to deliver this tech across the global sporting world, and have continued with AC since then too. Live-line is just another version of this tech, nothing wrong with it, but only revolutionary to those ignorant of just about any smidge of AC history.

https://virtualeye.tv/the-sports/virtual-eye-sailing/america-s-cup

That was over quarter of a century ago, but its no surprise the turds don't know this as they were probably still yet to be accidentally conceived down a side alley in Frankfurt port. 

Thus the suggestion that AC37 coverage won't be any good is about as dumb and clueless as you can get... again no surprises there...

ignorance and malice make for some laughable mistakes

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6 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Actually the "revolution" in TV coverage for sailing happened in 1992 when Animation Research developed and delivered Virtual Eye - the first live GPS + 3d visualisation (...)

Ohhh, thank you! I already tried to explain ages ago (can't find the post right now) that VE incl. the lines that were drawn on the water virtually during e.g. AC32 were enough to explain the ongoings to the spectators. But apparently everything needs to be super hitech, bling-bling and "awesome" to be worth anything. TBH, old-school can even be better, because it brings the info across more to the point without all the unnecessary embellishment that only deflects from the real content. O.k., if there's no real content, then appearance becomes the focal point...

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Praise Allah the merciful that the fucking arms passed the tests. I can't take much more of this arguing about lines on a fucking tv screen and who has better lines that were more revolutionary than yours. So the boats are presumably ready and they just have to bolt the shit on and go? Are we about a month out from some launches?

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5 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Praise Allah the merciful that the fucking arms passed the tests. I can't take much more of this arguing about lines on a fucking tv screen and who has better lines that were more revolutionary than yours. So the boats are presumably ready and they just have to bolt the shit on and go? Are we about a month out from some launches?

Yeah but you're in the SGP thread B)

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Virtual eye/live line graphics, drones, high speed foiling etc etc etc ..... Call it how you want it's still dull to watch, sure really good tv production can improve the viewing experience, but the bottom line is still the same. Sailing as a spectator sport is a dull turd.

The only sure way of getting more people watching it is to have more people sailing in the first place, even then a huge percentage of sailors don't watch it, they may well be interested  in the result, but watch the event live on tv?...yeah nah.

Only the really dedicated fans or people whose work and income will be affected by the resultare going to be watching all the racing live. For the great unwashed a few seconds at the end of the sports section in the early evening newswill be best any event organiser can hope for.

45 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

hat was over quarter of a century ago, but its no surprise the turds don't know this as they were probably still yet to be accidentally conceived down a side alley in Frankfurt port

Mate...You really should go easy on these guys, we all young dumb and full of cum at some point in the past, it doesn't indicate dubious parentage, just that a lot of growing up and education is still required.

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7 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You're completely wrong here. The AC LiveLine Graphics we saw first in AC 34, then in AC 35 and now in SailGP were pretty revulutionary when they came along and made communicating Sailing much easier. I wish it would have been done earlier.

Huge credit to Stan Honey and his Team. Honey put the bar for TV Coverage pretty high with that.

Will the folks who run the TV Coverage for AC 36 come up with something similar? I doubt it.

You know "the folks who run the TV Coverage for the AC36" made this shit happen first, right?

https://virtualeye.tv/

 

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1 hour ago, Woolfy said:

Mate...You really should go easy on these guys, we all young dumb and full of cum at some point in the past, it doesn't indicate dubious parentage, just that a lot of growing up and education is still required.

Fair call in general, however when it comes to A4E that technique has sadly never worked

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2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Ohhh, thank you! I already tried to explain ages ago (can't find the post right now) that VE incl. the lines that were drawn on the water virtually during e.g. AC32 were enough to explain the ongoings to the spectators. But apparently everything needs to be super hitech, bling-bling and "awesome" to be worth anything. TBH, old-school can even be better, because it brings the info across more to the point without all the unnecessary embellishment that only deflects from the real content. O.k., if there's no real content, then appearance becomes the focal point...

But having the course confinement’s shown should be kept in my opinion. Get rid of the rest, but improve some of the angles on the footage as well 

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

That might be 2 different things. For the broadest audience, best event to watch may not have the fastest boat, but be more watchable and exciting and suspenseful and compelling. 

Doesn't matter.  The AC will always draw an order of magnitude more eyeballs than any other series.  That's what 150 years of even the worst marketing will do for ya.  We already know there will be 3/4 million kiwis in the race village, which is more eyeballs than will ever watch SailGP online or in person.  

 

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Main Foiling Series does not equal profitable or break even which is what the buzzy, greenie "sustainable" really means. 

Hey I am grateful for entertainment and experience subsidized by billionaires. Four Seasons Lanai, Hualalai, golf on TV, cool.  I can like something but know it's subsidized. Thanks Rich People!   

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Fair call in general, however when it comes to A4E that technique has sadly never worked

Yeah you're probably right there, my bad. I'd give myself a downvote but I'm sure A4e or one of his cronies will do it for me.

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5 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Actually the "revolution" in TV coverage for sailing happened in 1992

So good and cheaper that TNZ will come back to that. :) 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So good and cheaper that TNZ will come back to that. :) 

I actually wouldn't be surprised if they'd be up for continuing with Stan Honey et al's involvement - it probably comes down to how entangled that group all is with LE/RC/ACEA

I've little doubt AR will be involved too...

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8 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

That will never happen. You are completely out of your mind here cuz they don't have the space for that. Dalton mentioned during the AC Overture last Summer they could have up to 250-300K at most. And these folks won't turn up for every Race.

And Clean, what I am comparing here how sustainable an Event is. SailGP will sustain itself, the GC32 Series probably won't unless they'll get some TV Deals soon. SailGP will become the Main Foiling Series for a long time to come.

Even at 250-300k @MR.CLEAN was right. 

 

Fancy arguing that an event will be a failure because only quarter of a million people might turn up in person. You must live in a miserable world. 

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13 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

That will never happen. You are completely out of your mind here cuz they don't have the space for that. Dalton mentioned during the AC Overture last Summer they could have up to 250-300K at most. And these folks won't turn up for every Race.

Nevermind the space, they barely have enough PEOPLE to get that many!  

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5 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Even at 250-300k @MR.CLEAN was right. 

 

Fancy arguing that an event will be a failure because only quarter of a million people might turn up in person. You must live in a miserable world. 

He lives in his mother's basement. 

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18 hours ago, mad said:

But having the course confinement’s shown should be kept in my opinion. Get rid of the rest, but improve some of the angles on the footage as well 

Easy fix: Get rid of the course confinements ;).

But you're right, although the "old" VE was certainly enough to explain the action, the new LL is fancier and more up-to-date visually. 

 

3 hours ago, mad said:

He lives in his mother's basement. 

Miserable world indeed.

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On 5/19/2019 at 10:27 PM, dg_sailingfan said:

That will never happen. You are completely out of your mind here cuz they don't have the space for that. Dalton mentioned during the AC Overture last Summer they could have up to 250-300K at most. And these folks won't turn up for every Race.

And Clean, what I am comparing here how sustainable an Event is. SailGP will sustain itself, the GC32 Series probably won't unless they'll get some TV Deals soon. SailGP will become the Main Foiling Series for a long time to come.

What do you mean by sustainable?

The GC32 Series is working fine, as long as the owners keep paying their entry fees. It has low overheads and has made enough to have a small profit in the last two years, which goes back into the event. It has no desire to be a commercial event and is 'not for profit', but is aimed at the majority of Class members, who are private owners.

SailGP will last as long as Larry pays for it. The TV rights are nowhere near covering the costs, and sponsorship is pretty non existent. That said, we are only on event two, so there is a long way to go. The advantage of Larry's backing is to buy time for the teams, and event, to find serious sponsors and to consistently improve on delivery. The disadvantage is that the event will last as long as Larry is interested. 

 

So, like the rest of Sailing,  both events are reliant upon the owners. Multiple or single, neither exists without them. Neither is more sustainable than the other, though arguably the GC32 Series is not reliant upon a single owner, and has multiple billionaires involved....

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11 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

What I mean with "sustainable" is that the GC32 Series will be done soon similar to ESS and particularly if there is no TV Coverage.

SailGP in the long run will replace the GC32 & ESS.

I btw predicted late last year that the ESS would be done soon and I was right.

1) The GC32 series is an owner-funded series. It only has limited media because that's what the owners want.  It's highly sustainable because the owners love the boats, it's relatively cheap to move them around, and you only need a handful of pros to run the program.

2) SailGP will last for as long as Larry keeps paying all the bills.  That's likely two seasons, maybe three.  Already the teams are bitching about the costs to compete, and they're not paying more than a fraction of the event costs.

3) GENIUS

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On 5/20/2019 at 7:14 AM, Mozzy Sails said:

 

Nevermind the space, they barely have enough PEOPLE to get that many!  

That's why the ratings from the San Fran AC were so crazy: 70% of kiwi households watched it.  More than the rest of the world combined.  Bermuda shit the bed because rights fees.

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13 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You are absolutely wrong here. By the time the 4th Season starts Larry wouldn't need to pay $$$ to keep the Event going. SailGP will sustain itself. You should really go into hiding cuz you have been wrong before claiming we would have 6-8 Teams in AC36 among other things.

And as a well-known Sailing Journalist you should know better that No Sporting Event in the modern world can sustain itself without TV Coverage.

All good dg.  Judging from your writing you are maybe 18 years old so we have time to see whose prediction comes true.  I've been watching Larry's boom/bust sporting cycles for twenty years though and the ratings issues are pretty obvious for someone who understands them.

For what its worth, I have never called myself a journalist of any kind, nor was I one.  I'm just a dude on the internet.

 

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18 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You are absolutely wrong here. .........you should know better that No Sporting Event in the modern world can sustain itself without TV Coverage.

We are talking about sailing here.

There is a pretty long list of sailing events that have sustained themselves in the modern world without TV coverage.

The Copa Del Rey 

The 5-0-5 World Championships

Charleston Race Week

TP52 MedCup (okay some online streaming but TV coverage?)

The Viper 640 World Championships and Winter Series :)

and I suspect the GC32 circuit will continue just as long as the owners want it to .

 

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41 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

1) The GC32 series is an owner-funded series. It only has limited media because that's what the owners want.  It's highly sustainable because the owners love the boats, it's relatively cheap to move them around, and you only need a handful of pros to run the program.

2) SailGP will last for as long as Larry keeps paying all the bills.  That's likely two seasons, maybe three.  Already the teams are bitching about the costs to compete, and they're not paying more than a fraction of the event costs.

 

Agree.  That's why one hopes the SailGP is "funding secured" lol.  Bet it's not in escrow.  

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39 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

should really go into hiding cuz

I thought you would go into hiding after we saw you talking to yourself on your Twitter, cuz.

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

What I mean with "sustainable" is that the GC32 Series will be done soon similar to ESS and particularly if there is no TV Coverage.

SailGP in the long run will replace the GC32 & ESS.

I btw predicted late last year that the ESS would be done soon and I was right.

As had been said by others, TV coverage is completely irrelevant to the GC32, and is therefore as sustainable as literally any other Sailing event /Series. 

In fact,  do you honestly believe that SailGP will achieve TV coverage that produces $30million per event? Because that is what would be needed. 

 

Or maybe you mean that enough TV coverage will encourage sponsors enough to put in that kinds of money? 

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You're hilarious! You think dg_sailingfan & Fortfolio of Yachts are the same person, do you? Give me a break!

You are a bad person and so is Forourselves and rh. But of course all 3 are NZ Clowns so I expected nothing less than clowning.

Actually I don't hold any grudge against the People of NZ (I was a couple of weeks in NZ during 2008 when I was working in Australia) in general just those NZ People here on SA.

I will bitch and put doom and gloom about AC36 the same way certain people did during AC34 and AC35.

But you are A4E aren’t you? 

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You're hilarious! You think dg_sailingfan & Fortfolio of Yachts are the same person, do you? Give me a break!

You are a bad person and so is Forourselves and rh. But of course all 3 are NZ Clowns so I expected nothing less than clowning.

Actually I don't hold any grudge against the People of NZ (I was a couple of weeks in NZ during 2008 when I was working in Australia) in general just those NZ People here on SA.

I will bitch and put doom and gloom about AC36 the same way certain people did during AC34 and AC35.

"You are a bad person and so is Forourselves" Oh no, here you go again - stop bullying me! lol

Haha the problem is, we'll always be right about AC34 and 35, and you'll just be a little bitch lol

 

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And hey, do ya think they'll hit the 50 knot record on the Hudson next month? 

How fast will they go?  Who will win?  How much stuff will break on each boat?

 Lots to discuss before the first AC75 splashes! 

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No!

:lol: you deluded little child. 

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16 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

And hey, do ya think they'll hit the 50 knot record on the Hudson next month? 

How fast will they go?  Who will win?  How much stuff will break on each boat?

 Lots to discuss before the first AC75 splashes! 

Can we plueeze go back to fighting about F50?

Prediction: barring a derecho they won't break 50 racing.

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21 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Really? I saw you on TV when you were covering the VOR in Abu Dhabi in 2015 and they called you "Sailing Journalist". You were on the Sailing Illustrated FB Show recently where you were called Sailing Journalist as well. Who is right then?

If someone calls you a black lesbian but you say you are not, are they right or are you right?

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18 hours ago, Potter said:

As had been said by others, TV coverage is completely irrelevant to the GC32, and is therefore as sustainable as literally any other Sailing event /Series. 

In fact,  do you honestly believe that SailGP will achieve TV coverage that produces $30million per event? Because that is what would be needed. 

 

Or maybe you mean that enough TV coverage will encourage sponsors enough to put in that kinds of money? 

I was told by a production staffer that TV coverage for SailGP costs 1.3M average per event, not including travel/lodging/food, and that no network is paying for the broadcast.

 

 I don't know if there's an amortization in that figure for Liveline/equipment development.

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5 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I was told by a production staffer that TV coverage for SailGP costs 1.3M average per event, not including travel/lodging/food, and that no network is paying for the broadcast.

 

 I don't know if there's an amortization in that figure for Liveline/equipment development.

Any rough ballpark on what the return from licensing broadcasts would be? 100k? Just a smoke show for Larry? Surely after last time he saw the outcome, I don't get it.

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33 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 It's exciting, it's fun and it's fast.

 

What does that have to do with this conversation?    Are you capable of holding more than one idea in your head at any given time?

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37 minutes ago, barfy said:

Any rough ballpark on what the return from licensing broadcasts would be? 100k? Just a smoke show for Larry? Surely after last time he saw the outcome, I don't get it.

In general, non AC sailing broadcasts are either given away freely or actually paid-up like an advertisement.  The reason for this is that no network wants to take on the responsibility for selling advertising for a sailing event, because their advertisers laugh at them when they do. 

This allows the event to sell advertising for their own broadcast by touting that "XYZ Network is broadcasting it!", which allows them an excuse to get some cash from their existing relationships, (i.e. LVMH, Oracle for SGP), but it would be rare for sales to even cover the production costs much less the total event costs.   Given the poor viewer numbers from the first two SGP events, the numbers certainly aren't going to go up.  

Russell has been good at selling HNW services though, which has helped fund most of the AC stuff over the past couple decades.  I wrote a story long ago about how Louis Vuitton can spend 25M on an America's Cup and earn 5 times that much selling handbags to the 150 clients they bring to the event to wine and dine and sit on a spectator boat.  Problem with that model is: LV doesn't need to do this 4 times a year.  Once every two to four years works well though.

 

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38 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

In general, non AC sailing broadcasts are either given away freely or actually paid-up like an advertisement.  The reason for this is that no network wants to take on the responsibility for selling advertising for a sailing event, because their advertisers laugh at them when they do. 

This allows the event to sell advertising for their own broadcast by touting that "XYZ Network is broadcasting it!", which allows them an excuse to get some cash from their existing relationships, (i.e. LVMH, Oracle for SGP), but it would be rare for sales to even cover the production costs much less the total event costs.   Given the poor viewer numbers from the first two SGP events, the numbers certainly aren't going to go up.  

Russell has been good at selling HNW services though, which has helped fund most of the AC stuff over the past couple decades.  I wrote a story long ago about how Louis Vuitton can spend 25M on an America's Cup and earn 5 times that much selling handbags to the 150 clients they bring to the event to wine and dine and sit on a spectator boat.  Problem with that model is: LV doesn't need to do this 4 times a year.  Once every two to four years works well though.

 

I'm always shocked at the number of $1,500 handbags the world seems to need.  

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9 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

I'm always shocked at the number of $1,500 handbags the world seems to need.  

A $1500 bag is for poor people

LV has their top 'sales guides', mostly ex-fashion models, handling each of these individuals at a major event.  I spent a few hours with one of these ladies when I was in La Maddalena in 2010, and she told me that the average annual spend by those 150 top LV clients was well over 1M euros, and that it was surprisingly easy to spend 1M on LV gear when you are buying for your: Wife, ex-wife, parents, parents-in-law, mistress, mistress 2, kids, stepkids, more stepkids, dog....

 

  She also told me that she and her team were expected to extract a 50% increase over the average spend from those clients for the following year.  They were all quite well paid.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Russell has been good at selling HNW services though, which has helped fund most of the AC stuff over the past couple decades.  I wrote a story long ago about how Louis Vuitton can spend 25M on an America's Cup and earn 5 times that much selling handbags to the 150 clients they bring to the event to wine and dine and sit on a spectator boat.  Problem with that model is: LV doesn't need to do this 4 times a year.  Once every two to four years works well though.

That is interesting, thx. Sounds like maybe sustainable sailing events can only handle a frequency of every 4 years.

Sounds like maybe you are a black lesbian as well..:D

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I was told by a production staffer that TV coverage for SailGP costs 1.3M average per event, not including travel/lodging/food, and that no network is paying for the broadcast.

 

 I don't know if there's an amortization in that figure for Liveline/equipment development.

That sounds like a shitload of cash for what is basically a 2 day race event!  How many media staff are they employing? Think I counted 3-4 and n front of the camera last time, a camera guy, sound guy for shore and then the same again for the sailing, (plus boat and boat driver)  assuming they’re using drone rather than helicopter for the aerial shots?  

And where is that going if doesn’t include travel and expenses etc? 

Be interesting to see the rough breakdown as you see it? 

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

 How many media staff are they employing?

Around 35-40 total.  remember you have multiple people running some of these individual cameras.  

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