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Larry's AC50 Circus

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And another with Dylan talking about what draws him to SailGP, and where they are all trying to take it. Great stuff...

 

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

And another with Dylan talking about what draws him to SailGP, and where they are all trying to take it. Great stuff...

 

There are only so many vacancies in the America's Cup programmes. Sailors gotta eat...

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Cowes is coming.

 

 

Yep - and I'm really looking forward to it. What are the typical conditions there this time of year? I was in Southampton a few years ago when Camper was on the market to have a look for some interested folks working on a television show. It was May and was a beautiful place - pretty tame weather at the time. But I didn't get to spend a lot of time there.

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Cowes, the Mecca of yachting, and the great @smackdaddy has never been there?

 

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7 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Yep - and I'm really looking forward to it. What are the typical conditions there this time of year? I was in Southampton a few years ago when Camper was on the market to have a look for some interested folks working on a television show. It was May and was a beautiful place - pretty tame weather at the time. But I didn't get to spend a lot of time there.

Cowes week.

2 days of 12-15 knots

2 days of fuck all wind

2 days of 25 plus

and a day of all of the above.

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11 minutes ago, mad said:

2 days of 12-15 knots

This would be nice for the cats.

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I was starting to get interested in this event, particularly if they get a decent venue ...

Then along came smackdaddy, fuck it now, now way I'll watch anything he is promoting. 

And I will take pleasure in every second of not watching it.

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Cowes week.

2 days of 12-15 knots

2 days of fuck all wind

2 days of 25 plus

and a day of all of the above.

Sounds like a pretty typical week. Thanks Mad.

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3 hours ago, mad said:

Cowes week.

2 days of 12-15 knots

2 days of fuck all wind

2 days of 25 plus

and a day of all of the above.

Wouldn't that fit more for Plymouth ?

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9 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

This would be nice for the cats.

One of these is a Cat - the other one is a doG chasing it.....badly!!:D5947012573e0c_OR-XEROX700m.thumb.JPG.d9727cd5baa794773089d9268dcffdc6.JPG

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8 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@smackdaddy,

SailGP Cowes will be great I think especially if we have decent breeze :)

5ad90bc94fe35_consolationcup.jpg.27de59f2dbd93f8241003a0ad5e1c76a.jpg

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Excitement is palpable amongst the helmspeople as they vie for this.  (Do you think the winning team gets it for a year or does Larry keep it in his bedroom?) 

SailGP-Trophy.jpg

yysw253334.jpg

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Excitement is palpable amongst the helmspeople as they vie for this.  (Do you think the winning team gets it for a year or does Larry keep it in his bedroom?) 

SailGP-Trophy.jpg

yysw253334.jpg

Haha Slingsby and Outteridge are main actors front and centre and the rest is supporting cast lol. The look on Robertsons face is classic. He's thinking "I don't even know why I'm in this photo" lol

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Reminiscent of this Losers' Gallery...

59554c2a2b1cb_Spithilln4Stooges.thumb.jpg.1632b5e32b7d49b7f1b27633572a9cf7.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Indio said:

Reminiscent of this Losers' Gallery...

59554c2a2b1cb_Spithilln4Stooges.thumb.jpg.1632b5e32b7d49b7f1b27633572a9cf7.jpg

Interestingly, despite the embarrassment they signed up to, three of the above are back in the AC .... and I'm sure Percy and Cammas would if they could.

Percy was linked to Malta?

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26 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

For all the fans who missed this

 

 

 

 

 

Russ has an unmatched legacy in America's Cup. The Sail Great Petulance series will be dead by 2021 when Ellison wants all the other losers to start paying...

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4 hours ago, Indio said:

Russ has an unmatched legacy in America's Cup. The Sail Great Petulance series will be dead by 2021 when Ellison wants all the other losers to start paying...

Ummm, sorry again @Indio. While you were  asleep Larry has supposedly coughed up to 4, or 5 years of allowance for the show.

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Sir Ben Ainslie's Thoughts on the new SailGP Circuit:

"I haven't been to any of the events," he admits. "I have seen some of it on the TV. I don't have the right channel in the UK to be able to watch it!"

"I have seen little bits on the App, which is good.

"I think the sailing has generally been really good. I watched the last day of New York, which by all accounts, was good. The first day had more swirly winds."

"But all credit to Russell for continuing with that vision, and I hope that it is a success. Sailing really needs top quality circuits like SailGP to lift the profile of the sport. Also, I think it is great for young professionals to get a chance to come through as they are with that circuit."

"I'm a fan!"

Hearing this from Ben is very interesting. And @Forourselveswas bragging about Ainslie not liking SailGP and that's why he choose to sail in the GC32. Clearly, that's not the case.

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56 minutes ago, barfy said:

Ummm, sorry again @Indio. While you were  asleep Larry has supposedly coughed up to 4, or 5 years of allowance for the show.

Let's revisit this conversation post-AC36...It would have been a lot cheaper for him to have just challenged for the AC36 edition, but his nightmares from Bermuda must be overpowering!! 

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4 hours ago, Indio said:

Let's revisit this conversation post-AC36...It would have been a lot cheaper for him to have just challenged for the AC36 edition, but his nightmares from Bermuda must be overpowering!! 

We don't need to revisit that conversation Post AC36. SailGP has announced at least a 3-Year Deal with Whisper Films which is their Official Supplier of the the SailGP Content. So SailGP will run at least until the end of the year 2021 when that Deal runs out and has to be renewed.

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

We don't need to revisit that conversation Post AC36. SailGP has announced at least a 3-Year Deal with Whisper Films which is their Official Supplier of the the SailGP Content. So SailGP will run at least until the end of the year 2021 when that Deal runs out and has to be renewed.

I was wondering who was doing the production. Great work.

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10 hours ago, Indio said:

Let's revisit this conversation post-AC36...It would have been a lot cheaper for him to have just challenged for the AC36 edition, but his nightmares from Bermuda must be overpowering!! 

Maybe that's the clever plan; quietly buy up all the broadcasting rights on the world's best sailing networks before the AC, leaving dalts no coverage of the event!

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That Whisper contract is a rock solid guarantee for 2021. LE/RC never renege or get caught up in commercial litigation. 

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8 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

We don't need to revisit that conversation Post AC36. SailGP has announced at least a 3-Year Deal with Whisper Films which is their Official Supplier of the the SailGP Content. So SailGP will run at least until the end of the year 2021 when that Deal runs out and has to be renewed.

Thanks for that. So the deal's renewable at the end of 2021? Makes sense to Ellison who hopes someone else will have won the Auld Mug away from ETNZ by then so he can try again in 2024. He must have given some ironclad underwriting to Whisper for minimum viewing chargeables...I'd guess even "The Swamp People" would be out-rating the Sail Great Petulance content for Whisper...

"Whisper" was the brand for a female sanitary pad in NZ.

whisper.thumb.jpeg.b66dfe96d2647974ef85f8a0a123f547.jpeg

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Well, I'm starting to understand a bit more why these AC guys are so intent on optimal wind conditions and wide open tracks...

giphy.gif

When your boat is this binary in terms of stability, there's no room for any more challenge than just keeping it upright.

In any case, I actually am looking forward to the ACWS. It should be seriously entertaining - even if the racing itself is not that awesome.

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^This forum is good training for following things that are entertaining but not that awesome. 

^^And Men's Liberty is available on Amazon for anyone interested. 

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20 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Well, I'm starting to understand a bit more why these AC guys are so intent on optimal wind conditions and wide open tracks...

giphy.gif

When your boat is this binary in terms of stability, there's no room for any more challenge than just keeping it upright.

In any case, I actually am looking forward to the ACWS. It should be seriously entertaining - even if the racing itself is not that awesome.

Imagine a corporate sponsorship guy looking at this - and not having an idea what he is looking at.

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4 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

^^^You like that rh? Now I'm really confused.

1623686939_ScreenShot2019-07-13at3_10_57PM.thumb.png.2edc34dad637f256f357a608e1ff85fd.png

I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that he was talking about you mate...

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I don't believe I ever said that the GP boats "don't crash". In fact I put up a photo here earlier of AUS auguring in at the very exciting 3-boat finish in the strangely maligned NY event. Crashing is to be expected in exciting, all-out racing. No problems there.

But the new mono-foil direction for the AC has certainly not yet shown itself to be reliably stable at high speed - not only according to me but by many others in the know as you've already seen. Couple that with the reality of the current delays - and this is clearly a problem. But it's one that these top-flight sailors might be able to work out like they did with the initial multis when they finally get some more time with these boats. That's what great sailors do.

However, as I've said before, I think the real fundamental issue with the new design direction is that the monohull concept really takes away from the overall performance profile of the boat. Again, once it's up on foils - the hull config/profile doesn't matter (cat or mono). BUT, it's getting there and staying there in varying conditions that will make or break this new boat in terms of all-round performance and exciting racing. In between those times, you've got a hell of a lot more drag happening with these monos than you do with the cats...

giphy.gif

That's just fact.

So, like I said, the proof will be in the ACWS pudding. But it certainly appears to be a big step backward in overall performance for bleeding edge racing. Even IF the new foils end up outperforming the current tech at the SailGP level - that really means nothing more than improvement of the foil technology which will then quickly filter into other events like GP making them even better. Everything else in this current AC direction is just yesterday's news.

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On 7/13/2019 at 3:38 AM, barfy said:

Maybe that's the clever plan; quietly buy up all the broadcasting rights on the world's best sailing networks before the AC, leaving dalts no coverage of the event!

Yep, buy up all the talent and broadcasting slots.  WIll see closer to the time, betcha they schedule a "Grand Final' event right on the AC final?

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

That's just fact.

God you talk shit. That's just fact.

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I talk physics. I know to more pedestrian fellas like you they seem like the same thing. But they're not.

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

But it certainly appears to be a big step backward in overall performance for bleeding edge racing.

Lets see, Glenn Ashby - key figure in ETNZ's AC35 campaign - reckons the performance of the AC75 will be better than the AC50.

Smackidiot - SA troll - believes the AC75 will be a step backwards......

Who to believe? Gee that's a tough one.......

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Well, as always we shall see - all of us - even Glenn. But remember to define performance as all-round performance - not just speed on the foils. That's my point above.

I'll breathlessly await your report...in ~2 years...while we all enjoy more SailGP events now and then and in the future.

tenor.gif?itemid=7192658

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53 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

I talk physics. I know to more pedestrian fellas like you they seem like the same thing. But they're not.

Honey, you're no Feynman 

 

IMG_20190713_195804.jpg

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1 hour ago, random said:

Yep, buy up all the talent and broadcasting slots.  WIll see closer to the time, betcha they schedule a "Grand Final' event right on the AC final?

I don't think anyone would take your bet. BUT it would be an interesting head-to-head coverage comparison with the free live-streaming coverage of all AC events ETNZ have planned.

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13 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Honey, you're no Feynman 

 

IMG_20190713_195804.jpg

Yes, well, except this...

144ce01ab76e5e8a0662dbf0f5b922abfa726e9c

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1 minute ago, smackdaddy said:

Well, as always we shall see - all of us - even Glenn. But remember to define performance as all-round performance - just not speed on the foils. That's my point above.

I'll breathlessly await your report...in ~2 years...while we all enjoy more SailGP events now and then and in the future.

Comedy gold - since inception SGP has been crowing it has the fastest boats in the planet, except they've never got anywhere near AC50 speeds after 3 regattas of promises... Now all of a sudden its actually about "all round performance" - as if the F50s aren't actually even worse in that regard...

Nice try arsehole! :-)

 

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13 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Comedy gold - since inception SGP has been crowing it has the fastest boats in the planet, except they've never got anywhere near AC50 speeds after 3 regattas of promises... Now all of a sudden its actually about "all round performance" - as if the F50s aren't actually even worse in that regard...

Nice try arsehole! :-)

 

What was the top AC50 speed? And where is it documented? Genuinely curious where you're getting your "facts".

And there's no "all the sudden" about it. That's what I've been saying since the very beginning (look on page 42 when I first started livening up this sad excuse of a whingefest thread).

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2 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Comedy gold - since inception SGP has been crowing it has the fastest boats in the planet, except they've never got anywhere near AC50 speeds after 3 regattas of promises... Now all of a sudden its actually about "all round performance" - as if the F50s aren't actually even worse in that regard...

Nice try arsehole! :-)

 

The next "evolution" in their cats will be battery-powered hydraulics...

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6 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Just this...

144ce01ab76e5e8a0662dbf0f5b922abfa726e9c

Lord Rayleigh would be proud but I prefer the Italian and Swiss

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Lord Rayleigh would be proud but I prefer the Italian and Swiss

Preferences (and Reynolds) aside, at least you understand what I'm talking about.

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12 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

as if the F50s aren't actually even worse in that regard...

The F50 hasn't gone anywhere near a dry lap in the 3 events so far, despite its so called "upgrades". They've yet to match the "all round performance" of ETNZ's AC50.

BTW Smackidiot it's "all around performance", and you have the nerve to suggest you understand physics. Try getting basic English right first eh?

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On 3/22/2018 at 2:02 AM, surfsailor said:

In your opinion. In MY view, the AC50 circuit - if it happens - will be Gran Prix yacht racing at its best - 50 knot wing sailed foiling cats that can foil all the way round the course. Especially if they add EV to raise/lower/cant/rake the foils, so the grinders are only trimming the wing and jib. 

When you really think about it, those boats and the schedule they were looking at doing with the framework agreement makes more sense as a ‘gran prix’ than as an AC format anyway - once every 4 years is plenty often for the AC, and closer to tradition.

It will also add an upper level tier to foiling racing that will be another potential source/proving ground for future AC sailors. 

 

Wow - someone knew what they were talking about a LONG time ago - on freakin' page 1!

How can this little gaggle of Kiwhingers™ STILL be so very insistently wrong in this thread with all this real-life evidence now blaring at them? Ah, right...and I'm the "troll".

PS - I'm still waiting on your evidence of that AC50 speed claim there, rh3. Sigh.

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Wow - someone knew what they were talking about a LONG time ago - on freakin' page 1!

How can this little gaggle of Kiwhingers™ STILL be so very insistently wrong in this thread with all this real-life evidence now blaring at them? Ah, right...and I'm the "troll".

PS - I'm still waiting on your evidence of that AC50 speed claim there, rh3. Sigh.

What speed claim is that?

Fact - we all know the official top speed of the AC50 in a race... it was Artemis hitting 47.2 knots (87.4 km/h) over the water, recorded by ACRM telemetry aboard Magic Blue.

In regards to F50's claim of 'exceeding 50 knots' - why not go read your employers own press release on the fabled 50 knots and the failed attempt to hit it, even without the restrictions of being in an official race..

https://sailgp.com/news/50knots-boat-speed-or-not/

"The Australians claim they’ve done it, but the SailGP Technical Team disagrees."

"If the record is to be broken, San Francisco will be the one to witness it."

Guess what didn't happen in SF, or in NY...

Fact - No F50 has yet even beaten the AC50 top speed in a race.

Fact - No F50 has yet achieved 50 knots.

The only real-life evidence is that you are a dead-set mug mate... you're just churning through old already discarded bullshit arguments...

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10 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Fact - we all know the official top speed of the AC50 in a race... it was Artemis hitting 47.2 knots (87.4 km/h) over the water, recorded by ACRM telemetry aboard Magic Blue.

 

So, you accept that Artemis was faster than ETNZ and now you have to face the fact the AUS F50 did 49,7 kts. The AC50s are old story.

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6 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So, you accept that Artemis was faster than ETNZ and now you have to face the fact the AUS F50 did 49,7 kts. The AC50s are old story.

Are you genuinely this retarded or is it part of your online 'persona' so people have low expectations and go easy on you?

Artemis's official race record has *never* been disputed.

The F50 has *never* hit 50 knots in or outside of a race.

The F50 has *never* beaten Artemis's official race record.

AC50s *are* an old story, and yet they are currently still a better tale than SGP... Wake us all up when that changes... If it ever does...

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So, you accept that Artemis was faster than ETNZ and now you have to face the fact the AUS F50 did 49,7 kts. The AC50s are old story.

Haha the old Stingray argument that there were boats (including Artemis and Oracle) that were faster than ETNZ but lost lol idiots!

200.webp

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It was no secret that Artemis was the quickest AC50 on a reach. ETNZ was the quickest up and down the course, which was enough for her to see off the Swedes. Although in the really light stuff ETNZ was quicker on all points than the Swedes. The thrashing in their last race showed that. Artemis was the second fastest boat in Bermuda, and had they been the challenger would have beaten Oracle, which showed how far they were off the pace.

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2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

It was no secret that Artemis was the quickest AC50 on a reach.

Correct. Many of the boats in AC35 were set up for that first reach to mark one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe sometimes they had a specific "Mark One Foil" that was a different configuration?

Anyway, ETNZ didn't bother with that first leg and just ground them down around the course. From memory the commentators kept spouting that no one ever passed ETNZ if they rounded mark one first.

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20 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Anyway, ETNZ didn't bother with that first leg and just ground them down around the course. From memory the commentators kept spouting that no one ever passed ETNZ if they rounded mark one first.

Yep, they did keep reminding us of that.

But then not many finished in front when TNZ rounded second! 

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8 hours ago, Indio said:

I don't think anyone would take your bet. BUT it would be an interesting head-to-head coverage comparison with the free live-streaming coverage of all AC events ETNZ have planned.

Free live coverage is absolutely key. The WSL is fucking fantastic and I get to follow it on multiple platforms at no cost and the tour goes from strength to strength.

I love watching Sail GP but have to piggy back on a relatives Sky account which is embarrassing for both me and SailGP. This would have been the death of the format if it wasn't fo LE's finite funding. Sad because I would like to have seen it succeed.

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3 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

but I believe sometimes they had a specific "Mark One Foil" that was a different configuration?

Artemis and I think Oracle as well at times, had an asymmetric setup using a foil optimized for the reach on the port side. 

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5 hours ago, rh3000 said:

What speed claim is that?

Fact - we all know the official top speed of the AC50 in a race... it was Artemis hitting 47.2 knots (87.4 km/h) over the water, recorded by ACRM telemetry aboard Magic Blue.

In regards to F50's claim of 'exceeding 50 knots' - why not go read your employers own press release on the fabled 50 knots and the failed attempt to hit it, even without the restrictions of being in an official race..

https://sailgp.com/news/50knots-boat-speed-or-not/

"The Australians claim they’ve done it, but the SailGP Technical Team disagrees."

"If the record is to be broken, San Francisco will be the one to witness it."

Guess what didn't happen in SF, or in NY...

Fact - No F50 has yet even beaten the AC50 top speed in a race.

Fact - No F50 has yet achieved 50 knots.

The only real-life evidence is that you are a dead-set mug mate... you're just churning through old already discarded bullshit arguments...

10 hours ago, rh3000 said:

...since inception SGP has been crowing it has the fastest boats in the planet, except they've never got anywhere near AC50 speeds after 3 regattas of promises... Now all of a sudden its actually about "all round performance" - as if the F50s aren't actually even worse in that regard...

Nice try arsehole! :-)

 

As for the AC50, yes, we've all seen that Wiki tidbit...

2020777324_ScreenShot2019-07-14at4_22_43AM.thumb.png.4737c0bcbd8eabbf8f71d6e93244d48f.png

Now, go back to those images of the previous races I posted above...and remember these are just momentary speed displays during the race. You see in the SF event that Dylan touches 46.3 knots at the first mark (with the other boats also screaming). Now refer back to your earlier statement I've bolded for you above...less than a knot of momentarily displayed speed is "not anywhere near" the AC50? Hmm.

Now go listen to the on-board videos from the NY event. I believe it's Nathan who mentions to his team that he saw 48.5. That's more than 47.2 in case you don't have your calculator handy.

Then we come to this...

35534011_ScreenShot2019-07-14at4_45_59AM.thumb.png.5ea54cfe3a7889f013d6802309ae4351.png

No, the 52.1 didn't count officially because it came off a handheld. I respect that. But did you see the speed that did come off the telemetry? It, too, was more than 47.2 knots. So you're embarrassingly wrong  - yet again. It's uncanny.

And that was from the first day using the new controller! And SailGP is just getting started!

Being somewhat new to this thread, I think I've sussed out those who can actually make a valid point and those who only have the ability to ignorantly and incessantly fling poo with completely errant information. You're obviously the latter, so I've got no interest in engaging you further until you can start using syllables and wash your hands.

Welcome to The Kiwhingers™. You guys are just about the best promotion SailGP could possibly ask for.

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On 7/12/2019 at 6:54 AM, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Interestingly, despite the embarrassment they signed up to, three of the above are back in the AC .... and I'm sure Percy and Cammas would if they could.

Percy was linked to Malta?

And if they had a choice, the winner of Sail GP or the America's Cup?

Ahhhh ... can I call a friend?

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

As for the AC50, yes, we've all seen that Wiki tidbit...

2020777324_ScreenShot2019-07-14at4_22_43AM.thumb.png.4737c0bcbd8eabbf8f71d6e93244d48f.png

Now, go back to those images of the previous races I posted above...and remember these are just momentary speed displays during the race. You see in the SF event that Dylan touches 46.3 knots at the first mark (with the other boats also screaming). Now refer back to your earlier statement I've bolded for you above...less than a knot of momentarily displayed speed is "not anywhere near" the AC50? Hmm.

Now go listen to the on-board videos from the NY event. I believe it's Nathan who mentions to his team that he saw 48.5. That's more than 47.2 in case you don't have your calculator handy.

Then we come to this...

35534011_ScreenShot2019-07-14at4_45_59AM.thumb.png.5ea54cfe3a7889f013d6802309ae4351.png

No, the 52.1 didn't count officially because it came off a handheld. I respect that. But did you see the speed that did come off the telemetry? It, too, was more than 47.2 knots. So you're embarrassingly wrong  - yet again. It's uncanny.

And that was from the first day using the new controller! And SailGP is just getting started!

Being somewhat new to this thread, I think I've sussed out those who can actually make a valid point and those who only have the ability to ignorantly and incessantly fling poo with completely errant information. You're obviously the latter, so I've got no interest in engaging you further until you can start using syllables and wash your hands.

Welcome to The Kiwhingers™. You guys are just about the best promotion SailGP could possibly ask for.

Awwww I'm sorry... did the facts burst your bubble?

Nice try on the deflection, buy you'll need to try again from the start, go and read what I wrote - nothing I said was wrong...just your inability to parse the written word.

Specifically that the F50's top official racing speed is yet to top an AC50's top official racing speed.

I hate to break it to you, but claims from sailors as to what they saw on the boats speed readouts are not an official speed. That's how AUS thought they had hit 50 knots.

Perhaps when you actually produce official racing speed stats for F50 that exceed the AC50's you might look less of a fool...

Apparently you also know the official top speed of an F50 outside of a racing. Are you seriously suggesting that these boats have a performance ceiling beyond what they can produce in a race?

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9 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Who are the guys on extreme left and right ?

Although he looks pretty wizened in the photo (may be the lemons) I think the guy on the left is Meir Tepper, one of DeNiro's Nobu partners. 

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2 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Are you seriously suggesting that these boats have a performance ceiling beyond what they can produce in a race?

Really? rh, I love you man, but you're just not very smart. And that takes all the fun out of the debate. So I'll leave you and your boys to your same old, tired shenanigans.

When someone with some integrity and intelligence wants to talk SailGP - I'm all over it.

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8 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Haha the old Stingray argument that there were boats (including Artemis and Oracle) that were faster than ETNZ but lost lol idiots!

Stringray was right, at least for Artemis. And if you think the fastest boat always win it shows that you never sailed a race.

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10 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Artemis's official race record has *never* been disputed.

The F50 has *never* hit 50 knots in or outside of a race.

 

rh299, you are putting yourself at clarkey's level, basically we can't trust what your write.

- Artemis race record was disputed here by some of you claiming some unofficial figures. But we don't care of the troll squad.

- F50 beat the Artemis record outside a race with the official recording of 48.18 kts and unofficial of 52.2

We just have to be provided all the data from a race now to have it for a race.

You also miss the fact that F50 are not only faster (now proven) but also faster in the lower range of the wind.

Moreover, each iteration of the boat is improving and faster :)

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Hey, go edit Wikipedia.

Does a "record" for a sailboat or class require sustained speed for some period of time or a distance or is it instantaneous peak the thing? Genuine question. I do not think the F50 "we saw X" was for long

I am not all that into speed per se but Wikipedia says land records are fixed distance 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Stringray was right, at least for Artemis. And if you think the fastest boat always win it shows that you never sailed a race.

Blah blah blah. Jesus you make yourself look ridiculously stupid! If they were faster, the next Americas Cup would be being raced in Sweden in AC50's. But its not. Its in Auckland in AC75's. That means they weren't faster. The fastest boat always wins. ALWAYS. Anyone who's anyone in the Americas Cup will always say "The fastest boat always wins the Americas Cup" 

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Is the boat with fastest straight-line peak burst speed necessarily the first to finish and fastest around a race course? 

 

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11 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Is the boat with fastest straight-line peak burst speed necessarily the first to finish and fastest around a race course? 

 

Well, apparently crossing the finish line before your opposition doesn't matter in a race anymore. 

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Not if the boat coming across second was "faster" on a readout. ;) 

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Hey, go edit Wikipedia.

Does a "record" for a sailboat or class require sustained speed for some period of time or a distance or is it instantaneous peak the thing? Genuine question. I do not think the F50 "we saw X" was for long

I am not all that into speed per se but Wikipedia says land records are fixed distance 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record

Clew, the Wiki information for the AC50 entry defines it as "maximum peak speed". So I think that's exactly what it means - not sustained. The video where the F50 gets 52/48+ happened with a gust as they mentioned. If you have even a basic understanding of sailing, this makes perfect sense when looking at peak speed. And it's why rc's reasoning above is so ridiculous and just not worth a response. You just can't fix that.

These GP boats will break 50 very soon. They are clearly and demonstrably right on that threshold now, and will only get faster as the technology and skill levels continue to improve.

I have no idea what "rules" might be surrounding speed records in this category. But everything in the discussion right now has been about peak speed.

That said, your point is valid. And it's why I've been focused on all-round performance regarding the monos vs these cats. As TC mentioned above, peak speed is not the best indicator of a great race boat. The monos might well be speed demons on the foils - but they will also be the slowest boats on the planet if they're stuffing off those foils every 100m - or not up on those foils at all. Again, we'll see.

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23 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

These GP boats will break 50 very soon. They are clearly and demonstrably right on that threshold now,

Well, sorry I have to break this news to you, but ... few here give a fuck.

Do you seriously believe that it would make a difference to anyone other than Larry's bragging rights?  Would what get more rich white cunts to this traveling dog and pony show?  Nuh.

But thanks for spamming this forum, without you here we wouldn't have a reason to make posts reflecting on how fucked this situation is!

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5 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

rh299, you are putting yourself at clarkey's level, basically we can't trust what your write.

- Artemis race record was disputed here by some of you claiming some unofficial figures. But we don't care of the troll squad.

- F50 beat the Artemis record outside a race with the official recording of 48.18 kts and unofficial of 52.2

We just have to be provided all the data from a race now to have it for a race.

You also miss the fact that F50 are not only faster (now proven) but also faster in the lower range of the wind.

Moreover, each iteration of the boat is improving and faster :)

The problem is the Artemis Race record is irrelevant anyway, if infact you are talking about all round performance? Which is it? Are you referencing the Artemis "Speed record" Disputed or not, as evidence that Artemis were faster than ETNZ during a race because of a top speed recorded outside of race conditions?

Because if that is the case, than all you need to do is watch the video of the Final race of the Challenger Final, as well as listen to the commentary of that race, and look at the liveline data, which will tell you the exact opposite, that ETNZ were consistently 3-4 knots faster around the course than Artemis Racing on almost every angle of sail, not to mention Freddie Carrs admission that ETNZ were able to generate 30% more pressure, 30% more power than any other boat in the event.

The F50's have been touted as being "30% faster than the AC50's we saw in Bermuda" Does this mean the F50 has only caught up to the performance of the ETNZ AC50? Because it certainly has not surpassed it. That much is certain.

Outside a race is irrelevant. Its not about what happens outside a race that matters, only what happens during a race. Its like a 100 meter sprinter recording an unofficial faster time than Usain Bolt, never being able to win a race against him, but still maintaining he's faster than him because he ran a better time one day in training.

Faster in the lower wind range than an AC50? There is no comparison unless an AC50 lined up against an F50 in the same condition on the same course. If you're using data from Bermuda versus data from Sydney, or New York, than you also need to take time through maneuvers (bottom out speed) and distance sailed into account, which I'm betting will prove the AC50 has a faster average speed than an F50 due to the fact that the F50 is not able to stay on the foils as consistently as the F50's were. 

The AC50 surely is faster in race conditions, on a race course, due to its ability to maintain stable and consistent flight, and the ability to perform sharper, faster maneuvers.

Bottom line, until an F50 is able to complete a race with 100% flytime, under Race conditions, around a race course, the AC50 must always be seen as a more efficient platform. Anything else is purely hear say.

ETNZ proved in Bermuda, brutally efficient performance under race conditions around a Race course will always prove to be a better, faster formula than raw straight line speed in the wrong direction. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Really? rh, I love you man, but you're just not very smart. And that takes all the fun out of the debate. So I'll leave you and your boys to your same old, tired shenanigans.

When someone with some integrity and intelligence wants to talk SailGP - I'm all over it.

Shucks, you aren't very good at this are you... I'll help you out, by answering my own question first...

I do believe that these boats have a performance ceiling beyond what they can produce in a race.

Do you?

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5 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

- Artemis race record was disputed here by some of you claiming some unofficial figures.

Some of me? You may have multiple voices in your head mate, but there's only one in mine, and I've never disputed Artemis having the top official race speed... in fact good luck finding anyone who doesn't think that Artemis had the top official speed during the AC35 regatta...perhaps A4E farted something out?

And I'll ask the same question to you that Smackdaddy has so far avoided answering...

Do you believe that in those preliminary tests in NZ prior to any of the regattas, that the F50 hit speeds in excess of any speeds they have since achieved in offical racing?

It's not a rhetorical question, it's a genuine one, based on your assertion as to the F50's 'unofficial' top speed.

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13 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Shucks, you aren't very good at this are you... I'll help you out, by answering my own question first...

I do believe that these boats have a performance ceiling beyond what they can produce in a race.

Do you?

Easy to cheat the speed shown on that hand-held GPS display. And coming from some who were involved in the leaded king post scam , check the odometer :D

381018335_Handheldgps....thumb.png.6ac744aaa731840edee8cec9cd87ee8a.png

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23 minutes ago, Indio said:

Easy to cheat the speed shown on that hand-held GPS display. And coming from some who were involved in the leaded king post scam , check the odometer :D

381018335_Handheldgps....thumb.png.6ac744aaa731840edee8cec9cd87ee8a.png

The odometer was checked, Indio. The formal verdict from the high-end telemetry was 48.13, which is the fastest recorded and publicized peak speed for a foiling 50 cat to date. Everything else is just monkey howls.

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7 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

The odometer was checked, Indio. The formal verdict from the high-end telemetry was 48.13, which is the fastest recorded and publicized peak speed for a foiling 50 cat to date. Everything else is just monkey howls.

Whatever floats your boat - or second-rate cat :P

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Hey, she says,  throwing gasoline on the embers, wonder if the AC75s will be able to sustain peak speeds during races for LONGER than the F50s can/will?  Hang time matters, ya know.

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34 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

The odometer was checked, Indio. The formal verdict from the high-end telemetry was 48.13, which is the fastest recorded and publicized peak speed for a foiling 50 cat to date. Everything else is just monkey howls.

Nothing is more monkey howl than your shit.

But your insistence, going to two decimal places, shows desperation for something exciting where there is none.  Something shiny to point at to distract from how fucked it is sailing boats capable of almost 50 knots in opti courses, for the entertainment of the 1%ers.

It would be funni if it was not just so fucking ridiculous.

source.gif

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^^ Well, I'm betting yes, the AC75 will hit higher peak speeds for longer than the F50. But we all know its going to come down to the Huge foil sticking out on the windward side.

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