Contessa26

Inexperienced skipper takes inexperienced crew around vancouver island

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2 hours ago, Carry on lads said:

I concede the topic. I've learned my lesson. Do not feed the trolls.

Honestly i know someone who has paddled around Vancouver island in a sea kayak in less time than you guys have debated this topic....Carry-on Lads.

 

Was it one of your Origarmi designs Brent?

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Around Vancouver Island human powered record time of 12 days 23 hours and 45 minutes set in June 2014 by Victoria, B.C. native, Seakayker Russell Henry.

Sorry no foils just, old school displacement speeds and true grit.

 

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Do it. No one becomes experienced by sitting at home telling you what to do on their computers at sailing anarchy. 

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A trip with unskilled crew is one thing.  A trip with nobody knowing what the fuck they are doing is madness.  My advice is pick something to cut your teeth on first and don't risk a life.

I once did a trip from Key West to New York in February with a guy who didn't know how to sail.  (He did know by the time we got to NYC).  It was tiring to say the least but providing instructions like 'if you see ANY other boat or ship anywhere, get me on deck' kept us safe. There were other nuggets but that was the big one.   Trip took eight days.  1455 km.

 

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1 hour ago, bodega87 said:

Do it. No one becomes experienced by sitting at home telling you what to do on their computers at sailing anarchy. 

And then you can do a trip to Antarctica.

Or maybe just the NWP.

Just do it - all it takes is a sense of adventure.

A few examples of what you might have to deal with.

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image.png.ee4a67ef5ee02cf235b1f1e88237dc4f.pngimage.png.82928d9a101af19f4e3e7332deba218b.png

 

What dangerously moronic fuckwits. The same kind of people who yell "jump" to a person on a ledge.

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I understand what's confusing you, sloop. We're not talking about the same topics.

 

Have a seat. We'll handle him.

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On 3/25/2018 at 2:37 PM, Carry on lads said:

Around Vancouver Island human powered record time of 12 days 23 hours and 45 minutes set in June 2014 by Victoria, B.C. native, Seakayker Russell Henry.

Sorry no foils just, old school displacement speeds and true grit.

 

Great.  You are comparing a very well-prepared athlete's adventure, risking only himself, to an amateur taking a couple of novices around in essentially the same time.   Highly relevant to the discussion.

Now, I've sailed around V.I. in just about 3 days, 20 hours of actual sailing time, in a fast, very well-prepared fully-crewed boat.  No motoring involved. What does that prove?  Total elapsed time however was 14 days and we were beat by the end.   

I say, sure, this guy should go around if he really wants, but he should do two things:  1. Set aside at least a month.  2. Get the list of required safety and communication gear for the Van Isle and match it, line for line.  

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1 hour ago, Jammer Six said:

I understand what's confusing you, sloop. We're not talking about the same topics.

 

Have a seat. We'll handle him.

Jammed on transmit.  

 

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He's always jammed. IIRC he was the first one I jammed.

Never had anything to offer except nonsense and stupidity.

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35 minutes ago, Cirdan said:
1 hour ago, Jammer Six said:

I understand what's confusing you, sloop. We're not talking about the same topics.

 

Have a seat. We'll handle him.

Jammed on transmit.  

How apropos.

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4 hours ago, bodega87 said:

Do it. No one becomes experienced by sitting at home telling you what to do on their computers at sailing anarchy. 

Agreed I may be in front of the computer at this moment, or I could even be sleeping. And please let me assume you do the same. Mostly during the day I am making mods to my boat, getting it ready for another most excellent summer cruise. But more to the point: I replied to this thread because we went around Van Isle last summer. We had previously done many trips up and down and around Van Isle, but only as far North as about Quadra and Ucluelet. That was our warm up cruises. Too, we will likely be heading to at least the Broughtons this year. I am not saying go or not go. A review of my messages will show they are to the point of the subject matter, and promote caution. With a specific warning about two weeks not being enough time. If you want to dump on sitting at home advisors, then name names. Do not dump on every poster. Many have offered help on how to become experienced. And collectively that has been much more helpful than your two sentence message.

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On 3/25/2018 at 2:37 PM, Carry on lads said:

Around Vancouver Island human powered record time of 12 days 23 hours and 45 minutes set in June 2014 by Victoria, B.C. native, Seakayker Russell Henry.

Sorry no foils just, old school displacement speeds and true grit.

 

So this thread can go on for another week before we meet that time limit you proposed. Sounds like he had a hell of a good time exploring some of the wondrous places around the island. Good times watching the stars, listening to the porpoises farting and the eagles bitching...

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16 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Great.  You are comparing a very well-prepared athlete's adventure, risking only himself, to an amateur taking a couple of novices around in essentially the same time.   Highly relevant to the discussion.

Now, I've sailed around V.I. in just about 3 days, 20 hours of actual sailing time, in a fast, very well-prepared fully-crewed boat.  No motoring involved. What does that prove?  Total elapsed time however was 14 days and we were beat by the end.   

I say, sure, this guy should go around if he really wants, but he should do two things:  1. Set aside at least a month.  2. Get the list of required safety and communication gear for the Van Isle and match it, line for line.  

And do plenty of shorter warm-up trips to prepare both the crew and the boat.  There is no indication that the crew has any experience sailing at night, let alone navigating.  They should have been out in the Strait last Sunday night in the nice blow we had to practice reefing.

No one is saying that this guys should never ever attempt this trip.  We are just saying that he needs a lot more preparation and experience before going, and needs more than two weeks to complete the trip (and have any fun doing it).

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17 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

I understand what's confusing you, sloop. We're not talking about the same topics.

 

Have a seat. We'll handle him.

That's funny but sad for him and his socks

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19 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

And do plenty of shorter warm-up trips to prepare both the crew and the boat.  There is no indication that the crew has any experience sailing at night, let alone navigating.  They should have been out in the Strait last Sunday night in the nice blow we had to practice reefing.

No one is saying that this guys should never ever attempt this trip.  We are just saying that he needs a lot more preparation and experience before going, and needs more than two weeks to complete the trip (and have any fun doing it).

Who do you think you are, being all reasonable, commonsensical and shit in this thread?

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On 3/20/2018 at 9:25 PM, SloopJonB said:

Don't do it.

Wait until you have a significant amount of experience. The West Coast kills people - even experienced ones.

It is not to be taken lightly or treated as a "sprint". Basically, stop being a fucking idiot ;)

Cruise around inside until you gain enough experience to know you shouldn't be asking this question.

That's exactly the thoughts that came to mind when I read your post. I think I'm qualified to comment that the West  Coast of Vancouver Island gives me pause and I've sailed from here to Austraiia. All over the Caribbean and spent the last twenty years in BC. If you want a challenge, try sailing up and down Georgia Strait (preferably on the Upwind side) during November - February.

Stay out of the 'Graveyard of the Pacific until you're qualified for the particular sandbox.

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Just remember that sometimes you get lucky, and sometimes very unlucky indeed (very recent rescue off Washington state coast): 

 

 

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I'm back from a great trip & figure I owe the thread a debrief. Thanks in particular to all the useful advice given on here, and hopefully what follows will be useful to anybody else considering a similar trip. The Coles' Notes:

  • If you're hot off the front page of westsail 32 circumnavs, container ship collisions, at-sea rescues, you are going to be bored
  • What follows is a description of a nice sedate 13 day trip from Comox/Courtney Area down around S. end of Van isle to Barkley Sound & back
  • Wind speeds are all apparent wind, except where noted. Distances are straight-line, not sailed.

And the day-by-day detail:

  • Pre-departure, had 2 days to view the boat and check up on systems. Ended up working / catching up on sleep instead. Whoops. Boat was 38 ft, masthead rigged racer-cruiser, sloop rigged with Harken roller furler w/ Genoa rigged, 2 sets reef points on main.
  • Day 1: 6nm evening cruise to shake the dust off the sails
  • Day 2: Light winds, fair weather, 25.5 nm to Lasquiti Island
  • Day 3: 38 nm passage to Gabriola Island, wind 15-17 knots (we left late OK)
  • Day 4: 19nm to Dengen Bay in Trincomali Channel (left at 1400h.....). Interesting day in the Strait of Georgia with some concern of waterspouts developing. Wind was 10-15 kn SW (on the nose), with an neat demonstration of the effect of gulf island topography on wind speed. We transited Porlier Pass under sail with the ebb, myself calling approaches and turns via chart & hand-held bearing compass (and the owner, steering by chartplotter, wisely refusing my last called turn as I had completely failed to account for the ~4kt ebb....). Once into the Trincomali channel the wind increased to 15-20 again on the nose, apparently due to funneling between islands. So a nice upwind beat to dropping the hook & dinner.
  • Day 5: 1/2 crew up at 5 am, almost no wind, rode the tidal ebb under motor and were on the dock in Victoria @ 12:30. Nothing glamorous in motoring, but hey, no wind...41nm
  • Day 6: dug out the jib options in the AM; what I'd figured was a working jib turned out to be a 'tall boy' (a tall skinny staysail intended for downwind use with a spinnaker in heavy airs). The storm jib seemed adequate. We couldn't figure out why the harken roller furler had two tracks, anyone want to shed light? Best guess is that you're meant to use one to raise the storm jib and then drop the genny out of the other so as to avoid having to come head to wind....but in strong winds I think you'd have to round up anyway to take the load off the sails and make it possible to hoist the storm jib in the first place. Anyway: headed out around noon with predictions of 15-25 increasing to 25-30 knts W (true) for a shakedown. Spent the whole afternoon beating around Race Rocks in a consistent 25-27 knots apparent with gusts to 30 apparent. A good shakedown for the crew, some reefing practice. Tried to hoist the tallboy head to wind under motor and it was impossible; since the luff is unattached it just blew out of our hands. Will try again sometime when it's sheltered by the main on a run....Anchored Murder Bay, 20.5 nm
  • Day 7: departed 0530 to catch ebb again, winds 10 knots NW building to 15-20 knots in the afternoon, so pretty typical Juan de Fuca weather by all accounts & a sound argument for going the other way. Made 36 nm to Port Renfrew after a long slow day of beating upwind cursing out lack of knowledge about high performance sailing (rig tuning...when paying attention we averaged about 1:2 ratio of speed over ground : wind speed. I want more.).
  • Day 8: 33 nm to Effington Island, Broken Islands, Barkley sound. Better sailing today, with a storm system hitting north end of Vancouver Island producing gale warnings further north but a nice 20-25 knots for us, letting us make 6.5-8 knots closehauled (I know, I know). Highlight of the day was making our entrance into Imperial Eagle Channel amongst a nice spread of shoals & rocks, running again with old-school coastal nav side by side with chartplotter....when the chartplotter blanked out for a few minutes it was nice to have the paper stuff all lined up (and nicer still that I knew it was all accurate, thanks to frequent comparisons with the GPS over the last hour...)
  • Day 9: rest day, Broken Group is nice. Chilled & went fishing in the RIB.
  • Day 10: Refueled Bamfield, and wouldn't you know the nice strong wind we'd had on the nose the way up declined to carry us down, dying to a light breeze except for a glorious 1.5 hours of 15 kn w (apparent), which gave us an 8 knt beam reach back home. Pulled over in Thrasher Bay, Port San Juan, rather than motor all night. Lots of rollers in this bay, and we found riding them at anchor much nicer than being tied up and banged against a dock all night, as we had been on the way up.
  • Day 11: 70 nm day to Sidney Spit. Winds again 'typical Juan de Fuca' 10-15 W in the am rising to 20-25 W in the pm (all true). Would this be the continent heating up & raising inland pressure throughout the day? Anyway a glorious day of wing on wing and deep broad reaches, with a nice sobering reminder as we wrapped our genny twice around the forestay whilst trying to shoot Race Passage on the flood tide under sail. Luckily we had a couple miles to go before the rocks (or about 20 minutes, given the 5-6  kn flood tide) and better still the engine performed flawlessly...dead easy to spin the boat twice under power and then tighten up to a close haul and go around. Had the engine NOT been working this would have been more stressful.
  • Day 12: Cruised up to Saltspring, shore leave
  • Day 13: Stopped in Nanaimo

Things learned, for those who care:

  • What with the apparently frequent gales, anyone sailing in this area should definitely regard 30 knot winds as a usual and occasionally useful experience, or they will spend all their time in port. So be quick & comfortable reefing and changing headsails.
  • The harken roller furler was a really mixed blessing. I see the convenience, but I don't think I'd buy one. Dropping the genny involves pulling the whole thing out of it's track, which is slow. The system seemed a bit finicky (e.g. it jammed at one point and took us a couple days to figure out how to fix, during which time we had for foresail options either (a) the full genoa or (b) the storm jib). Then again, I'm used to hanked-on foresails so am probably just biased
  • Plan your day around the currents (PNW sailors: no shit)
  • Jibing headsails downwind with inexperienced crew at the sheets leads to wraps; maybe best to practice a lot of gybes you don't need to get quick at this.
  • There has got to be a way of running jacklines that doesn't require detaching and re-attaching your tether at the shrouds (to get around the jib sheet)
  • A lot of people get into trouble in that part of the world: heard securite calls & mayday calls every day once the weather got nice....one aluminum fishing boat flipped about pretty close to where we were with I think 3 lives lost...water is scary cold.

That's it! Thanks for all the help & if anybody needs racing crew around Ottawa, Ontario, hit me up. Fair winds meantime...

 

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Great stuff well done. And because you forgot again...

 

Image result for girl with great tits

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Many roller furlers have two tracks for use while racing, so one doesn't have to do a bald-headed change, which could also be used this way cruising.

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Holy crap, LB.  50% of her body mass is in her breasts!

 

Contessa/Cole-  Great write up!

If you're having problems with the Harken, you're either doing it wrong or it needs maintenance. My sails drop right out of the foil when the halyard is let go. There's no way I could unclip hanks as fast as pulling the sail out of the foil. Yes, the double track is so that you can avoid bald headed sail changes. The furler definitely shouldn't "jam."  There is a technique to furling in stronger breezes. I used to be a die-hard hanks guy but once I got the hang of the furler, I've come to embrace it. Also- do not just let the furling line get vacuumed up into the drum while the genoa spools out. That's how jams occur. Have someone maintain a light amount of friction by hand, as the furling line gets drawn into the drum so that it spools in neatly.

Seriously, enjoyed your write-up. Nothing broke, no one hurt, lots learned, experienced a variety of sailing conditions and good times. Does it really get any better?

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Frequent gales??

You did say you were sailing around the Gulf Islands didn't you?

I've been sailing here for more than 40 years and my experience is more "Winds gusting to 2 knots"

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41 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Frequent gales??

You did say you were sailing around the Gulf Islands didn't you?

I've been sailing here for more than 40 years and my experience is more "Winds gusting to 2 knots"

I, too, was slightly curious about the “frequent gales.”  In Johnstone Strait sometimes, sure, but... 

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I was thinking more of Juan de Fuca and the W. coast of the island, with all the authority of a guy who has spent a grand total of 2 weeks there.

We had just a couple days in the gulf islands and yes, it was sedate. West and North of Victoria though we had a gale warning every 3rd day because of a large system passing further north (see below). Warnings were given whenever predicted winds were above 30 though (aka force 7 "near gale / moderate gale", and on the exposed west coast anyway I bet the waves match it), and they were predicted to 40 a couple times. The highest we confidently saw was 30-31 knots, when head to wind for sale changes so (it seems) pretty much true wind.

Going north (...next time) it looks like you'd have to get comfortable with sailing in over 30 knots if you wanted to be out a lot. The large wave trains mentioned in the two recent PNW accounts seem pretty alarming

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On 7/1/2018 at 11:41 AM, Contessa26 said:
  • There has got to be a way of running jacklines that doesn't require detaching and re-attaching your tether at the shrouds (to get around the jib sheet)

 

Nice to get some follow up to a thread, thanks.

Re jacklines, I always ran mine inside the shrouds, jib and sheets were outside the shrouds.  Never had to unclip, just had to follow the jackline when moving on deck.  

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FYI:

The Harken furler works like any modern luff groove system plus it rolls up. If it jams, 90% of the time the swivel at the top is not high enough to get a good angle on the halyard.

Been a VERY long time since I hanked a sail on.

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9 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

FYI:

The Harken furler works like any modern luff groove system plus it rolls up. If it jams, 90% of the time the swivel at the top is not high enough to get a good angle on the halyard.

Been a VERY long time since I hanked a sail on.

Right, I'd forgotten about the swivel. My boat has some Harken hardware at the top that keeps the jib halyard away from the swivel. Maybe the OP needs that.

In this photo, you can see the OEM bit of hardware that keeps the spinnaker halyard away from the forestay. Beneath that, you can see the Harken bit of hardware that adjusts the angle of attack on the jib halyard so that it stays clear of the swivel.

Top_Foil1.jpg

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^^What Kent says, angle plus tension. 

There are also swivels that employ a 'mast break'. It's basically a small 'bar' that extends from the swivel and will hit the mast when rotating in either direction preventing a 360 degree turn in the event that the swivel gets sticky and/or tension/angle between halyard and mast is somehow lost.

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