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C&C 36...will it float?

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Looking at buying a C&C 36 for a family cruiser...anyone owned? Looks like it's got the C&C smile but not too worried. Original Barient winches, nice but older sail inventory: .6oz, .75oz, 1.5oz, #3, 2x Genoas. Wiring is original which is a little bit scary.

Wondering about sailing characteristics, suggested repairs/upgrades, offshore comfort, someone talk me out of it.

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Looking at buying a C&C 36 for a family cruiser...anyone owned? Looks like it's got the C&C smile but not too worried. Original Barient winches, nice but older sail inventory: .6oz, .75oz, 1.5oz, #3, 2x Genoas. Wiring is original which is a little bit scary.

Wondering about sailing characteristics, suggested repairs/upgrades, offshore comfort, someone talk me out of it.

I really like the look of the 36, the interior works really well, and if it's sound you have a great boat. Check out the C&C photoalbum for info and links to the email list. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/

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A friend bought one that I was going to look at and said he had to re-do all the wiring. He liked the boat. Those old Barients are superb bits of machinery - if you clean & lube them every year or two they will outlast your grandchildren. Lewmar springs & pawls work in them but the pawls must be changed in pairs due to very slight size differences - if you only change one then one will be taking all the load.

I'd be most concerned about the state of the engine - every C&C engine compartment I've seen has been stupid tight and maintenance can suffer because of it. PHRF is about 130 so not a rocket but respectable.

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If I remember correctly, the 36's were all cored boats, so check around for wet core and delamination.

The Barient winches are awesome. Take care of them, and they'll outlive you. And probably your kids.

On my C&C 35, after much consternation about changing their classic look, I bought a pair of Winchmates to convert my primaries to self-tailing. Worth every penny from a shorthanded perspective (and sailing with my family is singlehanding,) and less than half of what a pair of real Barient self-tailing winches were going for from the local rigger:

img-2.jpg

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My 1973 Barients work as well now as when new. I have done almost no maintenance, just kept them greased and replaced the pawl springs when needed.

Please go here http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ and sign up for the email discussion list. Old C&Cs have about the best support from a great owners group of any old boats IMHO.

C&C wiring was not the best back then, bit by bit I have replaced almost all of mine. Do watch out for the engine. *Any* engine that old can be about done for if not maintained well. If that boat has the Atomic 4, good news is they are very well supported. Bad news is many are raw water cooled, which can lead to corrosion issues. Good news is another one isn't that expensive in boat terms. If you have a diesel, you really need to check on the specific model. Some from back then are great and some others are impossible to find parts for anymore.

C&C 35 MK I owner here

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What year is this 36 you're looking at? I see they started building them in 1977 or so, I don't easily find when they stopped building the 36 and moved to a different model.  C&C's wiring was done well by the mid to late 1980's, proper tinned strands, etc., earlier, not so much.

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A friend bought one that I was going to look at and said he had to re-do all the wiring. He liked the boat. Those old Barients are superb bits of machinery - if you clean & lube them every year or two they will outlast your grandchildren. Lewmar springs & pawls work in them but the pawls must be changed in pairs due to very slight size differences - if you only change one then one will be taking all the load.

I'd be most concerned about the state of the engine - every C&C engine compartment I've seen has been stupid tight and maintenance can suffer because of it. PHRF is about 130 so not a rocket but respectable.

Tips like this are golden. I wish I'd known this when upgrading winches in the past. Bacon Sails always has shitloads of used, good condition Barients and I always avoided them because I thought you couldn't get parts anymore.

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Tips like this are golden. I wish I'd known this when upgrading winches in the past. Bacon Sails always has shitloads of used, good condition Barients and I always avoided them because I thought you couldn't get parts anymore.

Spare Parts
hl.jpg

With the demise of the companies that manufactured BARIENT & BARLOW winches, almost every customer who ever purchased those winches has experienced some frustrations in trying to keep the winches serviceable. Unfortunately, no provisions were made to ensure supply of even the most basic of spare parts for BARIENT & BARLOW equipment.

But there is hope. The AUSTRALIAN YACHT WINCH COMPANY can help.

We have purchased a large quantity of the original Barient and Barlow tooling and all the technical data covering the entire period of their existence. Additionally, our intimate knowledge of Barient and Barlow products ensures delivery of the correct spare parts at minimum fuss.

Spare Parts Price List (in US Dollars) effective from October 1st, 2010:

http://www.arco-winches.com/products/spares

I realize that the last time that web-page was updated was 2010 but I emailed them last summer for some bearings and got a quick reply with the information I needed and prices, etc.

Barients with aluminium winch drums need a bit more cleaning and care to last forever, annual cleaning and lubing is enough I think, however the bronze, chromed bronze and stainless versions are essentially immortal as far as I can see.  Lewmar bought the company to eliminate the competition.  Too bad, great winches.

 

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I own a 1981 40-2 which is the big brother of the 36 and are of similar design and build traits.   Era build issues aside (wiring, engine etc) I love 1) how good looking she is, 2) how easy she is to sail 3) how easy she is to maneuver under sail and power 4) how well built she is (multiple Bermuda races in some CRAPPY weather) 5) and how well behave she is under pressure.  

She will be in the family forever.

Other than that...she's an OK boat.:huh:

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Thanks for the tips so far. Boat is 1981 with diesel Yanmar 3QM30 so don't need to go the Atomic 4 route. Deck was recently redone by previous owner so ideally the balsa in the deck is in good shape (we'll see from survey). Everything else looks cosmetic besides getting some new sails in the near future...

Wondering if there's any more thought to the wiring and specifics others have had issues with. At this point wondering if a full re-wire is in the bill to have peace of mind.

Tip on the C&C group was golden!

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Thanks for the tips so far. Boat is 1981 with diesel Yanmar 3QM30 so don't need to go the Atomic 4 route. Deck was recently redone by previous owner so ideally the balsa in the deck is in good shape (we'll see from survey). Everything else looks cosmetic besides getting some new sails in the near future...

Wondering if there's any more thought to the wiring and specifics others have had issues with. At this point wondering if a full re-wire is in the bill to have peace of mind.

Tip on the C&C group was golden!

Our 1984 C&C35 has the untinned wiring, which has not been much of an issue at all except where the bow lights are hooked into the wiring in the anchor locker. There are several places where the wiring disappears under the liner and reappears somewhere else, apparently held in place by spooge or friction. Those places would have to be wired around if you have problems somewhere in that run. I would wait and see what the wiring is like before planning any major replacements. 

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Our 1984 C&C35 has the untinned wiring, which has not been much of an issue at all except where the bow lights are hooked into the wiring in the anchor locker. There are several places where the wiring disappears under the liner and reappears somewhere else, apparently held in place by spooge or friction. Those places would have to be wired around if you have problems somewhere in that run. I would wait and see what the wiring is like before planning any major replacements. 

This^

And that is what a survey is for...

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take a look at

http://www.wbryant.com/

he had a 38 but pretty much rebuilt the thing.  good resources in there.

Yep, Wally was an inspiration. He still pops in on the list once in a while.

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Our 1984 C&C35 has the untinned wiring, which has not been much of an issue at all except where the bow lights are hooked into the wiring in the anchor locker. There are several places where the wiring disappears under the liner and reappears somewhere else, apparently held in place by spooge or friction. Those places would have to be wired around if you have problems somewhere in that run. I would wait and see what the wiring is like before planning any major replacements. 

Yeah, what Ish says. I rewired our 37', mostly the battery cables which I upgraded and cleaning up the rat's nest behind the distribution panel. The rest was upgrades and new circuits. For stuff like the lighting circuits that were glued into the liner I just tied into them and kept on going.

Our 37' is a larger version of Ish's 35 III. Apart from the sentiment about owning a boat the you admire as you row away from it, it sails and handles beautifully. Also, as far as core issues go, my hull (#18, 1982) has been dry, dry, dry...

As far as the "Smile" thing goes, I think there are some pictures in my blog showing the keel bolts when I lifted the hull off. Not much of a problem.

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Thanks for the tips so far. Boat is 1981 with diesel Yanmar 3QM30 so don't need to go the Atomic 4 route. Deck was recently redone by previous owner so ideally the balsa in the deck is in good shape (we'll see from survey). Everything else looks cosmetic besides getting some new sails in the near future...

Wondering if there's any more thought to the wiring and specifics others have had issues with. At this point wondering if a full re-wire is in the bill to have peace of mind.

Tip on the C&C group was golden!

My 40 has a 3QM30 so if you have questions...(I rebuilt everything bout the bottom end last season).

Good luck!

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Interesting note: between Kent_Island_Sailor, Ishmael, and me, you have all 3 generations of C&C 35 represented here

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On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 4:02 AM, RedRyder said:

If I remember correctly, the 36's were all cored boats, so check around for wet core and delamination.

Nice boats.  Lots of room, well laid out, very pleasant to sail

I looked at one fairly seriously when I couldn't find the Ericson I really wanted.   The thing that ultimately made me walk away was core issues in the topsides - the seller (apparently well into his 80s) had adopted a docking-by-braille approach to getting back in his slip, and there were multiple places where the outer skin had cracked and allowed water into the core.  That plus a number of dead-spots in the cored deckIt was more than I wanted to take on.

Other than that, it was a fairly typical 1980s boat with all the typical needs - needed some upgrades, some re-wiring, some re-plumbing, and a fair amount of deferred TLC.

If I'd found one without core issues, I'd probably be posting on the C&C list instead of the Ericson forums these days...

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 The untinned wiring will need replacing at some point. Our boat has done multiple Bermuda trips, so the salt air accelerated things. Other gently used boats might be OK for some time to come. Not a huge thing, you just do a bit when you have time unless the electrical stuff just won't work. I used to do electrical surveys for people back in the day and found all kinds of odd stuff on much newer boats too.

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"The matter of tinned wire being the only type accepted as "marine grade" is rather interesting. Ancor was perhaps the first vendor to the boating market to supply tinned copper wire and label it as "marine grade." It was a brilliant marketing move because now many people think that tinned wire is the only legitimate wire to use on boats. In fact, many boaters are of the belief that the American Boat and Yacht Council mandates the use of tinned wire in its electrical standards. Well, this whole matter falls into the maritime legend category. First, the ABYC does not mandate the use of tinned wire its standards—never has. Second, the vast majority of production boat builders still use un-tinned wire in their electrical systems. Is tinned wire better? Well, it is more corrosion resistant, but the truth is, the un-tinned wire has been used for years and provides a more-than-adequate service life in most cases." - PRACTICAL SAILOR, June 2008

None of the original wire in my 1983 boat is tinned. I have re-terminated wires, in particular at the switchboard end, with the heat shrink, gluey, crimp connectors but I have yet to have any circuit fail in the run of the wire itself. If I was buying a used boat with multiple non-functioning electrical circuits, I would be more concerned about the generally poor maintenance habits of the PO than about un-tinned wiring. Just sayin'.

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My untinned wire was turning into black dust. It wasn't that it failed outright, but trying to put a new crimp on it required cutting back a foot or two to get to good copper, so I just said F it and got new wire.  I still have a bit of the original 1973 wire for the cabin light and it still works.

 

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Looks like a nice coastal and weekend cruiser. For much longer, 38 gallons of fresh water and 20 gallons of fuel will seem thin. Of course, my wife showers at the end of every sailing day, and we tend to go out for weeks at a time. Our last boat was 42', carried 160 FW and 60 fuel. 

Girls use more water than guys. 

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13 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Looks like a nice coastal and weekend cruiser. For much longer, 38 gallons of fresh water and 20 gallons of fuel will seem thin. Of course, my wife showers at the end of every sailing day, and we tend to go out for weeks at a time. Our last boat was 42', carried 160 FW and 60 fuel. 

Girls use more water than guys. 

And toilet paper.

Our 35 came with limited water capacity, the PO added another tank to double it. When we're really off the beaten track we carry an extra five gallons of diesel and five of water in jerry cans on deck. Not ideal, but that's one of the tradeoffs with a shallow canoe body and a skinny keel. 

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14 hours ago, Ishmael said:
15 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Looks like a nice coastal and weekend cruiser. For much longer, 38 gallons of fresh water and 20 gallons of fuel will seem thin. Of course, my wife showers at the end of every sailing day, and we tend to go out for weeks at a time. Our last boat was 42', carried 160 FW and 60 fuel. 

Girls use more water than guys. 

And toilet paper.

Our 35 came with limited water capacity, the PO added another tank to double it. When we're really off the beaten track we carry an extra five gallons of diesel and five of water in jerry cans on deck. Not ideal, but that's one of the tradeoffs with a shallow canoe body and a skinny keel. 

We carry 44 US Gal of Fuel (plus 10 more in jerry cans in the cockpit locker if necessary), and 80 US gal. of water, split over three tanks.  Same issue as Ish, shallow canoe body and a skinny keel.

We generally run out of water before fuel.  The water will last us a week or more, two weeks if we stay in the Bras d'Or where the water is nice and warm for swimming.  On the other hand, with guests aboard who aren't used to boats and no panic about access to more water we can go through all of it in one long weekend.

 

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I was advised long ago that the best way to conserve water on a boat was to have a manual pump only.

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C&C made the Landfall series with large tanks. For the rest, the boats were apparently assumed to sail well enough not to need a lot of fuel B) I carry 18 gallons of gas, which means for long offshore passages I save it for generating and pretty much sail most of the way. My 35 has an optional extra water tank for 70 gallons or so total. Most of the non-Landfall C&Cs will require some creative tank installing and plumbing if you want a whole metric shitload of fuel and water with you.

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On 3/25/2018 at 1:56 PM, Cruisin Loser said:

Looks like a nice coastal and weekend cruiser. For much longer, 38 gallons of fresh water and 20 gallons of fuel will seem thin. Of course, my wife showers at the end of every sailing day, and we tend to go out for weeks at a time. Our last boat was 42', carried 160 FW and 60 fuel. 

Girls use more water than guys. 

And pass more! Wife and three girls aged 8-13, 26 gal. holding tank; No Contest! Lucky to last 5 days. 'Course I could pee over the stern rail in the middle of the night. ^_^

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15 hours ago, kinardly said:

And pass more! Wife and three girls aged 8-13, 26 gal. holding tank; No Contest! Lucky to last 5 days. 'Course I could pee over the stern rail in the middle of the night. ^_^

and the old "If it's yellow, let it mellow" doesn't work when you're working your way upwind at 15 degrees of heel. :lol:

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15 hours ago, kinardly said:

And pass more! Wife and three girls aged 8-13, 26 gal. holding tank; No Contest! Lucky to last 5 days. 'Course I could pee over the stern rail in the middle of the night. ^_^

I know we're not supposed to to this....but peeing over the rail in the middle of the night is one of life's great pleasures. 

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Always remember that the majority of male drowning victims are found with their fly down.

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As a teenager alone on watch I almost did myself in that way - unrolled my one-piece half way to pee and tripped over something -  I pulled myself back on board without getting wet. That old S&S would have kept sailing for hours before the next watch.  I've not forgotten that moment. 

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I just redid the wiring to a forward cabin light. This is what it looked like. The crimp fitting was corroded all to hell, but the 1973 wiring wasn't too bad. One was still shiny and one was just starting to turn dark.

 

oldwire2.jpg

oldwire1.jpg

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On 29/03/2018 at 11:35 AM, Elegua said:

I know we're not supposed to to this....but peeing over the rail in the middle of the night is one of life's great pleasures. 

Agreed.

Our crew composition is the same as Kinardly's, which is why the first job, after we bought the boat was to replace the tiny 13 gal holding tank with a 49 gal one. Were good for a week or two. The only problem is keeping the fermentation at bay. 

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Re wiring (anti)corrosion, I don't know if it's a great idea but I've always given the bare wires a squirt of Boeshield or WD-40 before crimping something onto them. The conductivity is still there and I sort of hope it keeps the black death from taking over. Could just be me being silly. 

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On 4/2/2018 at 1:21 AM, py26129 said:

Agreed.

Our crew composition is the same as Kinardly's, which is why the first job, after we bought the boat was to replace the tiny 13 gal holding tank with a 49 gal one. Were good for a week or two. The only problem is keeping the fermentation at bay. 

36+ gallons or so was enough to handle 6 (my family of 4 + parents) for a little more than a week. Mmm fermentation 

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The PO of Gemini made some changes before we bought her. 40 gal fresh water, and 80+ (!!!) holding tank. Really? Why do I need that much holding tank?

Way too much work right now to even contemplate a change, however. I'd much rather have the ratio reversed.

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4 minutes ago, RedRyder said:

The PO of Gemini made some changes before we bought her. 40 gal fresh water, and 80+ (!!!) holding tank. Really? Why do I need that much holding tank?

Way too much work right now to even contemplate a change, however. I'd much rather have the ratio reversed.

Simply switch tanks! Don't bother with cleaning first, that's overrated. B)

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4 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Simply switch tanks! Don't bother with cleaning first, that's overrated. B)

cigar_brilliant.jpg?w=720

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18 hours ago, kinardly said:

Re wiring (anti)corrosion, I don't know if it's a great idea but I've always given the bare wires a squirt of Boeshield or WD-40 before crimping something onto them. The conductivity is still there and I sort of hope it keeps the black death from taking over. Could just be me being silly. 

FYI - WD-40 is useless for long term corrosion proofing. Stick with Boeshield or maybe dielectric grease.

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34 minutes ago, RedRyder said:

The PO of Gemini made some changes before we bought her. 40 gal fresh water, and 80+ (!!!) holding tank. Really? Why do I need that much holding tank?

Way too much work right now to even contemplate a change, however. I'd much rather have the ratio reversed.

Reminds me of a quote from a submarine movie where they filled one head with food. "Twice the food and half the places to shit - what genius came up with this" :lol:

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Reminds me of a quote from a submarine movie where they filled one head with food. "Twice the food and half the places to shit - what genius came up with this" :lol:

You just have to eat your way through it, to regain use of the head.

For 6 months + deployments, I remember all of the berthing spaces' floors were lined with cans and blocked in place with large turnbuckles/jackscrews.  We converted the reefer into a 2nd icebox. We stowed refrigeratable perishables such as eggs and milk in the escape trunks and one torpedo tube, especially if we were playing up north. We had a variable ballast tank that we never used, that was converted to canned storage and it was packed to the gills.  And yes, the 18 man berthing space head was converted to canned storage and OOC until we ate all the food stored there.

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Sounds like trying to drown an Irishman in a vat of Guinness.

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