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Dear NRA: We Won’t Let You Win. From, Teenagers.

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Dear National Rifle Association: We Won’t Let You Win. From, Teenagers.

By DARCY SCHLEIFSTEIN, ZACHARY DOUGHERTY and SARAH EMILY BAUMMARCH 13, 2018

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Credit Eleanor Davis

The killings of 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida may be the massacre that finally gets federal and state governments to enact common-sense gun control laws. That should have happened after Columbine. It should have happened after Virginia Tech. It should have happened after Sandy Hook. But it didn’t.

The Stoneman Douglas shooting is where our generation draws a line. Our parents and grandparents did not succeed in ensuring our safety at school. So we must do it ourselves.

We are Generation Z, the generation after millennials. We outnumber them by nearly one million and may be the largest cohort of future American spenders since the baby boomers. We have more than $30 billion in spending power and wield enormous influence in family spending. Our spending power will only increase as we begin to earn our own wages.

We will flex our muscles at the ballot box, too. Many high school seniors will cast their first ballots this November, and in 2020, a majority of today’s high school students will most likely be able to vote in their first presidential election. And we will not forget the elected officials who turned their backs on their duty to protect children.

Let us remind politicians like Donald Trump, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell who accept donations from the National Rifle Association and oppose efforts to restrict gun purchases that we are the future leaders and voters of this country. Let us remind corporations like FedEx that provide discounts to N.R.A. members that we are their future customers.

The Stoneman Douglas students who began speaking out after the killings last month have better articulated the need for common-sense gun control laws and school safety than our elders ever have. But those students cannot do it alone. We as a generation must band together behind them, just as Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson and others stood behind George Washington and fought to create this great country.

Recent Comments

michael

March 15, 2018

wonderfully articulate and focused and on the right side of history. young people have always k own more than they have been given credit...

clare mcintosh

March 15, 2018

i am walking beside you. you are the future. Stand up for your values and beliefs. If you're of voting age or going to be in november,...

Orville

March 15, 2018

Register to vote, as soon as you're eligible. Maybe as independents, to make both parties chase your votes. And then vote in every...

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We applaud many of the elected officials who have said they will work to reduce gun violence in their states. We hope Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey, our home state, will work with us and other advocates to do the same. We also support companies like Dick’s Sporting Goods, Avis Budget Group, Hertz, Delta, United and Walmart, which have stood behind the principles of the March for Our Lives movement and either cut ties with the N.R.A. or changed their policies on firearms sales.

On March 24, hundreds of thousands of children and teenagers nationwide will participate in March for Our Lives. We are among the 19 students helping organize New Jersey’s march, which will take place in Newark, a city with far too much gun violence. We implore students, their parents, teachers, school administrators, religious leaders, corporate executives and elected officials across the country to join any march, no matter where they are, and fight to make our schools safe.

March for Our Lives is not just one day. It represents the official start of when we all must stand with the Stoneman Douglas students and say, “Never again.” This isn’t about being aligned with one political party or another. This is about protecting this nation’s children, whether they are related to you by blood, or whether they are children you have taught or nurtured.

We are the future of this country, yet we can no longer assume that we are safe from mass shootings in our schools. Nor can we assume our elders will protect us. Instead, we have to work ourselves to end senseless killing, not just for our sakes, but for the sakes of future generations of Americans. ☐

Darcy Schleifstein is a sophomore at Randolph High School, Zachary Dougherty is a junior at Toms River North High School and Sarah Emily Baum is a senior at Marlboro High School, all in New Jersey.

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Are they actually interested in saving lives or just shouting down the NRA.

I still haven't heard of anyone bringing criminal or civil charges against the incompetents who let Cruz off the hook for years.

Sheriffs and school boards are elected in FL.  Anybody demanding a recall election in Broward?

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Shouting down the NRA will do for a start.

The Repugnicans should be sweating over these kids - most of them will be able to vote next time and they ain't gonna vote R.

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These kids are seriously pissed off. Quite a rant -

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2018/03/23/parkland-survivor-david-hogg-our-parents-dont-know-how-to-use-a-fking-democracy-so-we-have-to-n2464031

Parkland Survivor David Hogg: 'Our Parents Don't Know How To Use a F**king Democracy So We Have To'

You gun nuts should be worried...this kid is not a gun grabber..and is the first person I've ever seen show any compassion for the shooter's mental health and lack of help.

17 years old..and soon to be voting in a poll booth near you.

 

 

 

 

how long until someone proposes moving the voting age to 21? :D

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You gun nuts should be worried...this kid is not a gun grabber..and is the first person I've ever seen show any compassion for the shooter's mental health and lack of help.

17 years old..and soon to be voting in a poll booth near you.

 

 

 

 

how long until someone proposes moving the voting age to 21? :D

Maybe the school should have shown a bit more discipline than compassion.

 

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The NRA i s attackingthe teen org anizers of March forOur Lives

NRA TV has been flooding its social media channels with videos criticizing the protesters under the hashtag #MarchForOurLives, the name student survivors of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, chose for the event. Students leading the march want legislators to raise the federal age to buy a gun to 21, close background-check loopholes for gun show and online gun sales, and ban assault weapons.

"If you’re too immature to carry a firearm, you’re too immature to make policy about firearms,” said NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch in a video posted to Twitter on Thursday evening.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/qvx8gp/the-nra-is-attacking-the-teen-organizers-of-march-for-our-lives?utm_campaign=sharebutton

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Dana Loesch is an evil cunt.

She's worse than Coulter I think.

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"The NRA i s attackingthe teen org anizers of March forOur Lives"

So help me understand, Mid.

We are supposed to listen to these teens, because, well, the left says so.

But if you disagree with them, you are "attacking" them. Might damage their delicate psyche or something.

Last month it was tide pods, now we are supposed to just do what they demand. Who is the adult here?

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The NRA i s attackingthe teen org anizers of March forOur Lives

NRA TV has been flooding its social media channels with videos criticizing the protesters under the hashtag #MarchForOurLives, the name student survivors of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, chose for the event. Students leading the march want legislators to raise the federal age to buy a gun to 21, close background-check loopholes for gun show and online gun sales, and ban assault weapons.

"If you’re too immature to carry a firearm, you’re too immature to make policy about firearms,” said NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch in a video posted to Twitter on Thursday evening.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/qvx8gp/the-nra-is-attacking-the-teen-organizers-of-march-for-our-lives?utm_campaign=sharebutton

So the NRA thinks it is above democracy then? Doesn't surprise me, but the arrogance still disgusts me. I do think less of people who actively support the NRA, but I respect the 2nd amendment and those who eloquently make their arguments.

They be playing with fire eventually if they keep that attitude up. In a country where 17 year olds in many states can vote in primaries and caucuses, and where voting is not compulsory, get the teens fired up enough and they can swing the vote. Young adults tend to vote democrat, and then swing right as they age. So I guess the NRA wants to fire up some more dem voters huh?

I predict a groundswell of young activism in local politics, which will move upwards through state and federal politics by the time they get to their mid thirties and forties. Not a bad thing IMHO. There is a lot wrong on both side of politics and in both houses. 

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Are they actually interested in saving lives or just shouting down the NRA.

I still haven't heard of anyone bringing criminal or civil charges against the incompetents who let Cruz off the hook for years.

Sheriffs and school boards are elected in FL.  Anybody demanding a recall election in Broward?

An interesting point. But teens will naturally nationalize over this to get strength in numbers.

Are you proposing failures by LE should only be handled locally? If the LE fails to enforce a State or Federal Law, shouldn't they be held accountable by the State or Federation?

Oh Wait, I guess we already have precedence in CA where State Officials tip off illegal residents who also happen to be violent offenders about an upcoming round up. 

You're right, we need to rely on Billy Bob and Billie Jo to vote out Sheriff Cletus when he didn't uphold State / Federal Law.

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"The NRA i s attackingthe teen org anizers of March forOur Lives"

So help me understand, Mid.

We are supposed to listen to these teens, because, well, the left says so.

But if you disagree with them, you are "attacking" them. Might damage their delicate psyche or something.

Last month it was tide pods, now we are supposed to just do what they demand. Who is the adult here?

No, you listen to these teens because they are your children...as they see it, you aren't protecting them so they are doing it themselves.

If you love your children, listen and help them ..that's what we are all here for in the end.

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A small group of naive children fall way short of a new political groundswell.  The emotional tearjerkers will no doubt join the snowflakes.

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Let me guess, they will join hands in a circle and sing kumbaya next.  Get real!!!!!!!!!!

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A small group of naive children fall way short of a new political groundswell.  The emotional tearjerkers will no doubt join the snowflakes.

Gen Y is already on the nose with young adults, who have seen rampant narcissism fail Gen Y so far. Groundswell I've seen generally is the upcoming young adults are more likely to organize. Time will tell. Let's discus in 10 - 15 years.

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A small group of naive children fall way short of a new political groundswell.  The emotional tearjerkers will no doubt join the snowflakes.

So, if your kid was marching tomorrow, you'd dis them?

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So, if your kid was marching tomorrow, you'd dis them?

My children are light years ahead of that shit but if that's what they wanted to do I wouldn't stop them.  They have to make choices for themselves and live with the consequences.  

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All they do is cry on Facebook, look at the last election. Where were all those young votes?

Until they can vote online, they won't be a significant force.  

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Untitled.jpg.594476a4ad7c4044dd8cb1d466b739ee.jpg

I would have thought they would all be killed in school shootings by then.  I wonder where I got that idea from.

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All they do is cry on Facebook, look at the last election. Where were all those young votes?

I'm more elephant than jdonkey, but the last election was a wakeup to many. I don't think it will have a major effect on the next election, but it will the one after that. If nothing else, apart from whining about the popular vote - which is rightfully meaningless - many did finally learn a bit about the electoral college. 

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what election.jpg

Data from Cambridge Analytica indicates they are more interested in the next iphone or Apple ios release than politics.  No need to pay much attention to them politically.

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An interesting point. But teens will naturally nationalize over this to get strength in numbers.

Are you proposing failures by LE should only be handled locally? If the LE fails to enforce a State or Federal Law, shouldn't they be held accountable by the State or Federation?

Oh Wait, I guess we already have precedence in CA where State Officials tip off illegal residents who also happen to be violent offenders about an upcoming round up. 

You're right, we need to rely on Billy Bob and Billie Jo to vote out Sheriff Cletus when he didn't uphold State / Federal Law.

You should have been paying attention.

I've already said the current school board and sheriff are criminally negligent by not taking care of Cruz when he was committing felonies on school property.  They should be brought to trial.  I've also said that Juvenile records should not be sealed.

A recall election by of whoever you think a cute name for a sheriff would be  by someone else that you can dismiss with another cute name would raise a shitload more awareness of the need for consequences than a march against the NRA.  If you want to accomplish something and 'raise awareness' you should get in the face of the principal, counselors, school board, school resource officer, sheriff and anybody else involved and scream "WHY DID YOU FAIL TO DO YOUR DUTY!" "WHY DID YOU LET US DIE!".

So far as I know none of those failures could be charged with a federal crime so local or state justice is the only avenue available.  If you can come up with a federal crime please contribute.

BTW, I don't think teens "naturally" nationalize.  I think they are getting a lot of help dealing with the logistics of all the travel and the publicity machine that looks like the work of other lobbyists and idiots who can only see a gun.

 

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I predict a groundswell of young activism in local politics, which will move upwards through state and federal politics by the time they get to their mid thirties and forties. Not a bad thing IMHO. There is a lot wrong on both side of politics and in both houses. 

I think they tried that with the "occupy other peoples wallet" movement a couple of year ago.

 

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You should have been paying attention.

I've already said the current school board and sheriff are criminally negligent by not taking care of Cruz when he was committing felonies on school property.  They should be brought to trial.  I've also said that Juvenile records should not be sealed.

A recall election by of whoever you think a cute name for a sheriff would be  by someone else that you can dismiss with another cute name would raise a shitload more awareness of the need for consequences than a march against the NRA.  If you want to accomplish something and 'raise awareness' you should get in the face of the principal, counselors, school board, school resource officer, sheriff and anybody else involved and scream "WHY DID YOU FAIL TO DO YOUR DUTY!" "WHY DID YOU LET US DIE!".

So far as I know none of those failures could be charged with a federal crime so local or state justice is the only avenue available.  If you can come up with a federal crime please contribute.

BTW, I don't think teens "naturally" nationalize.  I think they are getting a lot of help dealing with the logistics of all the travel and the publicity machine that looks like the work of other lobbyists and idiots who can only see a gun.

 

Yep, they are being exploited for a political agenda.  

You are right that County and State officials and the police should be held accountable for not doing something about Cruz a long time ago.  It comes down to priorities and money.  Sure, there were a lot of failures for that to happen and I don't have a problem in prosecuting EVERYONE that had a hand in it.  

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Everyone has there opinion. I just don't look forward to when the republicans become as electorally arrogant as the democrats were in dissing a constituency they thought was safe / solid. It didn't work out well for the democrats. Gotta get out of the cities people and talk to some country folk people.Anyway, sleep for me and lake sailing tomorrow. Watchout for this rabid ex Aussie now Texan being in SF next week for work.  Y'all have fun!

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Nothing ever changes because of thrust from youth. Dinosaurs never learn.

 

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The NRA is the libs demon.  Hell, they think the word revolves around gun control.  Fuck the real issues.  

If you guys focused as much energy on smoking cessation as you do fighting the NRA you might actually do some good.

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The negative comments coming from the usual suspects about those kids sounds extremely reminiscent of the comments made by the Repugnicans and right wingers about the anti war movement in the 60's.

And look where that ended up - and where THEY ended up. Do the names Nixon & Agnew ring any bells.

Maybe the NRA will end up being the new Vietnam. Their insane bullshit is killing more Americans than the VC ever dreamed of.

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The NRA is the libs demon.  Hell, they think the word revolves around gun control.  Fuck the real issues.  

If you guys focused as much energy on smoking cessation as you do fighting the NRA you might actually do some good.

What are the real issues then? 

It would be good for one of the people on the right to explain AND offer some sensible suggestions.

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Hey Mid..... you're from aussie-land, correct?  WTF do you care about the USA and our laws and society?  Maybe worry about your own fucked up sensitive male country instead.  Go have a deconstructed latte and go cry in a stairwell about the sad state of affairs of your aboriginals.  Or maybe shed a tear and do something about all your prisoners you keep on remote islands in squalid conditions because you don't want to deal with immigrants or refugees.  

I guess what I'm politely trying to say is STFU and BTFO* of our business.  Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*BTFO = Butt the Fuck Out

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey Mid..... you're from aussie-land, correct?  WTF do you care about the USA and our laws and society?  Maybe worry about your own fucked up sensitive male country instead.  Go have a deconstructed latte and go cry in a stairwell about the sad state of affairs of your aboriginals.  Or maybe shed a tear and do something about all your prisoners you keep on remote islands in squalid conditions because you don't want to deal with immigrants or refugees.  

Like Guantanamo eh?

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey Mid..... you're from aussie-land, correct?  WTF do you care about the USA and our laws and society?  Maybe worry about your own fucked up sensitive male country instead.  Go have a deconstructed latte and go cry in a stairwell about the sad state of affairs of your aboriginals.  Or maybe shed a tear and do something about all your prisoners you keep on remote islands in squalid conditions because you don't want to deal with immigrants or refugees.  

I guess what I'm politely trying to say is STFU and BTFO* of our business.  Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*BTFO = Butt the Fuck Out

We feel sorry for your kids thats all..some of their parents want to kill them by proxy..apparently.

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Better watch these Global teens..next they'll be demonstrating for world peace or something.

March for Our Lives events led by young people in over 800 locations around the world – including London, Sydney, Tokyo, Mumbai, plus hundreds of places in the US – will also take place as demonstrators demand that the US Congress, for decades dormant on gun control, pass sweeping legislative change.

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1 hour ago, Righty_tighty_lefty_dumbas said:

Like the FL AWB that has already failed twice?

Three time’s the charm. 

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6 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

What are the real issues then? 

It would be good for one of the people on the right to explain AND offer some sensible suggestions.

Healthcare including mental health, North Korea, China, energy, Middle East, immigration, and a host of others.  Gun control is so far down the list it isn't even worth mentioning and the problems would be solved for the most part with the healthcare issue.  I don't have the answers for all of them but some I do.  The Country just isn't ready for them yet.

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16 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Healthcare including mental health, North Korea, China, energy, Middle East, immigration, and a host of others.  Gun control is so far down the list it isn't even worth mentioning and the problems would be solved for the most part with the healthcare issue.  I don't have the answers for all of them but some I do.  The Country just isn't ready for them yet.

Totally agree..so you'll be telling that to the NRA mob tomorrow after the march?

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Sadly Mell quoted this so I saw it ................

 

Quote

*BTFO = Butt the Fuck Out

 

fokin rich from a cock who is involved in wars 1000's of miles away from his home land .

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Better watch these Global teens..next they'll be demonstrating for world peace or something.

March for Our Lives events led by young people in over 800 locations around the world – including London, Sydney, Tokyo, Mumbai, plus hundreds of places in the US – will also take place as demonstrators demand that the US Congress, for decades dormant on gun control, pass sweeping legislative change.

Did you miss the 60's? Been there, done that..... so what exactly changed?

 

To your question about what the issue really is. The issue really is very disturbed people are getting their hands on guns. Not one damn person on Earth thinks this should be the case. Not a one.  So the issue is WRT Cruz, the issue is that even when we correctly identify these potentially unstable individuals, they still are free to buy firearms. Why? Why is it that a teen, who has a long history of disturbing behavior, a history well documented, that no one in his school system, social services or law enforcement took the necessary steps to prevent him from legally purchasing firearms? Pass all the laws you want and they will do squat unless you act to prevent him falling through the cracks.

WRT the incident in Maryland more recently. Jilted young man shoots girlfriend and an innocent bystander. The girl has now died. The shooter was shot and killed by the school's Security Officer (who I feel for having to take the life of a teen). Now this young man got the Glock he used from his Father. Essentially he took the gun (I am guessing without permission) with the intent of killing his former girlfriend. How tragic for that family, loss of son, son responsible for kill GF and ultimately parents guilty of allowing their son to gain access to the firearm. In cases such as this, or cases where it is clear that the firearm was not secure to prevent unauthorized usage, or in the case of Sandy Hook where the Mother of a clearly disturbed child bought him guns, those individuals must be held accountable for facilitation of murder.

Ultimately the issue is disturbed individuals not getting the help they need. And this I find most sad.  Forget for a moment this being a mental health issue, although it is, no sane person sets out to maim or kill other people. That said, we have whole segments of youth who are "allowed" to fail. Who are allowed to slip through the cracks. Who are allowed to fail in becoming productive citizens as they become adults. This is our societal problem right there. Rather than having a system for helping such individuals, we toss them out of school and that is the end of that. What a waste of human beings. They become the trash taken out to the curb by an educational and social services system, cast aside as not worth fixing. And yet we sit around and wonder why they picked up a gun and mowed down those that they, in their warped perception of the world, made them who they are.

Rail on all you like about firearms and The Second Amendment. About what rights we as US Citizens should or should not have. But know this, you are not doing a damn thing to fix the problem. Not one damn thing. In fact you are taken in by a distraction and focused on the absolute wrong subject or aspect of what is really going on. Ask yourself why that is? Ask yourself why you are ranting and marching against guns when you should be demanding that we fix a broken system that allows for the most vulnerable segment of youth to become forgotten until they ultimately do something abhorable.

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1 minute ago, BillDBastard said:

But know this, you are not doing a damn thing to fix the problem.

you are trying to tell this to an Australian ?

 

ignorance is bliss .

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10 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Did you miss the 60's? Been there, done that..... so what exactly changed?

 

T

Well Der..I was 3 in 1962..

My marches were about getting us out of Vietnam, Abortion rights ...hey..guess what..they worked!!

This is the March thread..the ..I mean ..well..a..Um 

More appropriate thread is over here.

or here

 

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39 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Totally agree..so you'll be telling that to the NRA mob tomorrow after the march?

No.  They're needed to add balance to the issue.  Americans love their guns and aren't ready to give them up yet.  That's changing with the new generation and the US will get there eventually.

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8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well Der..I was 3 in 1962..

My marches were about getting us out of Vietnam, Abortion rights ...hey..guess what..they worked!!

This is the March thread..the ..I mean ..well..a..Um 

More appropriate thread is over here.

or here

 

The height of the 60's was 67-70 +/-. I am guessing you weren't marching at 10 years old. That aside, Vietnam was bound to end, all as the marches did was effect the outcome of the war that my guess is was not the preferred on for the South Vietnamese.

And what is more interesting is you focused on that aspect of what I posted and completely ignored to body, point and intent of the post. And yet you wonder why things don't change.

Nice job.

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23 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

The height of the 60's was 67-70 +/-. I am guessing you weren't marching at 10 years old. That aside, Vietnam was bound to end, all as the marches did was effect the outcome of the war that my guess is was not the preferred on for the South Vietnamese.

And what is more interesting is you focused on that aspect of what I posted and completely ignored to body, point and intent of the post. And yet you wonder why things don't change.

Nice job.

No offence intended, but there's already many many threads about causes..Hopefully this one can be spared for a focus on the kids and what they are trying to achieve..we owe them that much.

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What we owe our youth is the opportunity to be successful and productive members of society when they grow to become adults. To ignore the root causes and focus on something other then the root causes is a disservice to them and an insult to those whose lives were cut short. We need to focus on and fix those root causes, not make this about something other then those root causes. Band aids are a worthless waste of energies.

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20 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

What we owe our youth is the opportunity to be successful and productive members of society when they grow to become adults. To ignore the root causes and focus on something other then the root causes is a disservice to them and an insult to those whose lives were cut short. We need to focus on and fix those root causes, not make this about something other then those root causes. Band aids are a worthless waste of energies.

And these kids will become the people that fix our failures..they have to start somewhere, and if this gets as big as I think it will be, it will stay with them forever..you know..being a part of change rather than a passive observer.. and teach them that action is never futile...so give the kids a break and a little less condescension please 

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The lefts opinion is "lets ban guns" instead of spending the money on mental health issues.  Problem is, that takes guns from everyone, no just the mentally ill.  We just don't punish people for what they MIGHT do.

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6 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

And these kids will become the people that fix our failures..they have to start somewhere, and if this gets as big as I think it will be, it will stay with them forever..you know..being a part of change rather than a passive observer.. and teach them that action is never futile...so give the kids a break and a little less condescension please 

In this case, I think their first foray into political activism will end in failure.  Emotional outbursts just don't carry much weight.

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2 hours ago, Mid said:

Sadly Mell quoted this so I saw it ................

 

 

fokin rich from a cock who is involved in wars 1000's of miles away from his home land .

War?  I'm not involved in no stinking war?  This was just yesterday apres racing.  If this is war, then I'm not sure that the old saying that "War is hell" is accurate.

5ab67282b8626_21B66738-A625-4148-86F3-ED4653806582(1).JPG.6b38cbcb1d250b7e108453f4e929bff4.JPG

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5 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

The lefts opinion is "lets ban guns" instead of spending the money on mental health issues.  Problem is, that takes guns from everyone, no just the mentally ill.  We just don't punish people for what they MIGHT do.

If you've been paying any attention at all to these kids, that's not what they are demanding.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/march-for-our-lives-explainer/index.html

According to a petition on the event's website, March for Our Lives has three primary demands:
  1. Pass a law to ban the assault weapons frequently used to carry out mass shootings
  2. Stop the sale of high-capacity magazines, restricting the amount of ammunition
  3. Close loopholes in America's background checks and implement laws that require background checks on every gun purchase, including those that occur online or at gun shows

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15 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

If you've been paying any attention at all to these kids, that's not what they are demanding.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/march-for-our-lives-explainer/index.html

According to a petition on the event's website, March for Our Lives has three primary demands:
  1. Pass a law to ban the assault weapons frequently used to carry out mass shootings
  2. Stop the sale of high-capacity magazines, restricting the amount of ammunition
  3. Close loopholes in America's background checks and implement laws that require background checks on every gun purchase, including those that occur online or at gun shows

Would that have stopped any of the school shootings?

The lefts end game is to ban all weapons.  

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2 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Would that have stopped any of the school shootings?

I don't know.

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Dear Teenagers, you won't win either.  From, the Constitution.  

#getthefuckoffmylawn

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I'm curious about one thing.... why are the teenagers all pissed off at the NRA and not at the FBI who completely failed to stop this event despite early and clear actionable information?  

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey Mid..... you're from aussie-land, correct?  WTF do you care about the USA and our laws and society? 

I guess it doesn't matter how many times it's explained to them or how small the words you use these right wingers are just not capable of getting it.

No surprise I guess - they really don't get much.

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42 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

And these kids will become the people that fix our failures..they have to start somewhere, and if this gets as big as I think it will be, it will stay with them forever..you know..being a part of change rather than a passive observer.. and teach them that action is never futile...so give the kids a break and a little less condescension please 

Allow me if you will to offer an analogy. Back in my youth, post Vietnam there was a No Nukes movement. Had a lot of interest and involvement. I attended No Nukes concerts in NYC and elsewhere.... although I was there for the music, not the cause. The theme was to stop nuclear proliferation. Laudable I guess, who wouldn't on some plain like to see the world denuclearized? All the heavies played, CSN, Bruce what's his name, James Taylor, Carlie Simon, whole bunch of acts. The end result, the US started closing most of our nuclear power plants.......... hmmmmmm but we did not do one damn meaningful thing about the Nuclear Arms Race. Not one damn thing. Argue if you will that shutting down peaceful usage of the nuclear era was a plus (or minus) but do not lose sight of the fact that there are far more nuclear weapons and a good number more countries with nuclear weapons than there were in the mid 70's.

The point, the point is this, you can ban gun ownership in total and the bad actors will still have guns, still use guns. The nut jobs will still commit mass murder, whether at the hands of guns or some other means. All in all the entire effort will be wasted on focusing on an inanimate object instead of the human condition behind these atrocities. We will move on to blame something other than what it is really about. We need to change that. We need to make society about access to opportunity, to stopping the fragile from falling through the cracks, to address their issues before they become all of our problem. I am so sick and tired of seeing those individuals being allowed to fail, allowed to sink into an unrecoverable abyss. It is tragic and we do nothing to stop it, to intervene, to correct their course before there is not turning back.

 

OH LOOK, SHINY OBJECTS!

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4 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I guess it doesn't matter how many times it's explained to them or how small the words you use these right wingers are just not capable of getting it.

No surprise I guess - they really don't get much.

Might I suggest that the one who doesn't get it is the one who thinks it is about something other than what it is actually about.

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13 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

 

The point, the point is this, you can ban gun ownership in total and the bad actors will still have guns, still use guns. The nut jobs will still commit mass murder, whether at the hands of guns or some other means. All in all the entire effort will be wasted on focusing on an inanimate object instead of the human condition behind these atrocities. We will move on to blame something other than what it is really about. We need to change that. We need to make society about access to opportunity, to stopping the fragile from falling through the cracks, to address their issues before they become all of our problem. I am so sick and tired of seeing those individuals being allowed to fail, allowed to sink into an unrecoverable abyss. It is tragic and we do nothing to stop it, to intervene, to correct their course before there is not turning back.

 

OH LOOK, SHINY OBJECTS!

+100 for the nice approach

Unfortunately, there will still be those who need to be dealt with more severely and that must be included.

Making everything binary is an oversimplification and you need to set limits of acceptable behavior and enforce them.

 

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Have we spoken yet about raising the age to join the military to 21 and immediately disarming and sending home every person under 21 currently serving in the military, cause I’m sure that would severely disrupt the nra and its ability to make profits?

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34 minutes ago, scottyMO said:

Have we spoken yet about raising the age to join the military to 21 and immediately disarming and sending home every person currently serving in the military, cause I’m sure that would severely disrupt the nra and its ability to make profits?

NRA profits? I thought they gave all their money to congressmen. 

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1 hour ago, BillDBastard said:

Might I suggest that the one who doesn't get it is the one who thinks it is about something other than what it is actually about.

Well, you might suggest it but in the context it would be pretty meaningless.

In this context it's quite obvious that what it's about is that Jeffie doesn't get why furriners are interested in and concerned about what happens in America. It's a common inability of right wingers.

Of course you are welcome to try and imply that it's about something else if you like.

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4 minutes ago, chinabald said:

NRA profits? I thought they gave all their money to congressmen. 

I'm sure quite a bit goes back to their gun manufacturer masters.

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This movement is fascinating.   When before this has a demographic voluntarily asked to have their ‘rights’ restricted?   The closest analogy I can think of was the patriot act.    

Those with kids under 40 are invited to chime in.   My daughter despite divorce is now the baby makes 3 demographic.   Her friends hated Trump, kind of liked Senator Sanders, felt nothing for Senator Clinton, ignored third parties, and didn’t bother to vote.   Most were horrified at what they allowed to happen by neglect.   I don’t know if there is trickle down to the high school crowd, but maybe the idea of living online and ignoring reality has reached its limit.    

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34 minutes ago, scottyMO said:

Have we spoken yet about raising the age to join the military to 21 and immediately disarming and sending home every person currently serving in the military, cause I’m sure that would severely disrupt the nra and its ability to make profits?

NRA profits? I thought they gave all their money to congressmen. 

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1 hour ago, scottyMO said:

Have we spoken yet about raising the age to join the military to 21 and immediately disarming and sending home every person under 21 currently serving in the military

Why stop there?  Why not raise the age to 25 for everything.

" The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. "

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

Its for the children, so it must be done now.

 

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16 minutes ago, chinabald said:

NRA profits? I thought they gave all their money to congressmen. 

Hmm, and nothing’s happened yet in congress 

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1 hour ago, BillDBastard said:

Allow me if you will to offer an analogy. Back in my youth, post Vietnam there was a No Nukes movement. Had a lot of interest and involvement. I attended No Nukes concerts in NYC and elsewhere.... although I was there for the music, not the cause. The theme was to stop nuclear proliferation. Laudable I guess, who wouldn't on some plain like to see the world denuclearized? All the heavies played, CSN, Bruce what's his name, James Taylor, Carlie Simon, whole bunch of acts. The end result, the US started closing most of our nuclear power plants.......... hmmmmmm but we did not do one damn meaningful thing about the Nuclear Arms Race. Not one damn thing. Argue if you will that shutting down peaceful usage of the nuclear era was a plus (or minus) but do not lose sight of the fact that there are far more nuclear weapons and a good number more countries with nuclear weapons than there were in the mid 70's.

 

 

OH LOOK, SHINY OBJECTS!

Sorry to bring, like, facts into the argument but there has been considerable success in reducing nuclear weapon numbers in the world. The graphic below shows the number of American nukes. The number of Soviet/Russian nukes has followed a similar patter, The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty has been largely successful except for rogue states like North Korea, India, Pakistan, and Israel. What the world should have done to these states is cut them off from everything from foreign aid to weapon sales to playing cricket et al on the world stage (don't laugh, that would have an impact on Pakistan and India).

US_Stockpile_2017.png

BTW, the people of the United States should be very proud of the hundreds of thousands of kids who are protesting today. The country is changing in spite of the Neanderthal spouting of several of the usual suspects here.

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39 minutes ago, chinabald said:

NRA profits? I thought they gave all their money to congressmen. 

You're stuttering.

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17 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

BTW, the people of the United States should be very proud of the hundreds of thousands of kids who are protesting today. The country is changing in spite of the Neanderthal spouting drooling of several of the usual suspects here.

FIFY

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46 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Sorry to bring, like, facts into the argument but there has been considerable success in reducing nuclear weapon numbers in the world. The graphic below shows the number of American nukes. The number of Soviet/Russian nukes has followed a similar patter, The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty has been largely successful except for rogue states like North Korea, India, Pakistan, and Israel. What the world should have done to these states is cut them off from everything from foreign aid to weapon sales to playing cricket et al on the world stage (don't laugh, that would have an impact on Pakistan and India).

US_Stockpile_2017.png

BTW, the people of the United States should be very proud of the hundreds of thousands of kids who are protesting today. The country is changing in spite of the Neanderthal spouting of several of the usual suspects here.

Except for?

You think there is a lesser ability to blow the world to kingdom come than there was in the mid 70's? Now that is funny.... 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Well, you might suggest it but in the context it would be pretty meaningless.

In this context it's quite obvious that what it's about is that Jeffie doesn't get why furriners are interested in and concerned about what happens in America. It's a common inability of right wingers.

Of course you are welcome to try and imply that it's about something else if you like.

No need to imply it is about something else. You folks don't seem to understand it should be about fixing or helping those who are left behind by society. Those vulnerable to falling into an abyss of anti-social behaviors and doing our very best to see they succeed. That they don't fall prey to despair, depression, disenfranchisement. Instead you want to make it about guns. It really isn't about guns at all if you want to be honest about it.

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6 hours ago, Mid said:

Sadly Mell quoted this so I saw it ................

 

 

fokin rich from a cock who is involved in wars 1000's of miles away from his home land .

There is a certain irony in Jeff’s comment. :blink:

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4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I'm curious about one thing.... why are the teenagers all pissed off at the NRA and not at the FBI who completely failed to stop this event despite early and clear actionable information?  

That wasn't the marching orders they were given.  The NRA , not the FBI, is the libs demon to sleigh.  

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

This movement is fascinating.   When before this has a demographic voluntarily asked to have their ‘rights’ restricted?   The closest analogy I can think of was the patriot act.    

Those with kids under 40 are invited to chime in.   My daughter despite divorce is now the baby makes 3 demographic.   Her friends hated Trump, kind of liked Senator Sanders, felt nothing for Senator Clinton, ignored third parties, and didn’t bother to vote.   Most were horrified at what they allowed to happen by neglect.   I don’t know if there is trickle down to the high school crowd, but maybe the idea of living online and ignoring reality has reached its limit.    

That'd be nice. Most of the younger people I know are appalled at current trends and most will admit (if you approach the subject non-judgementally) they did not vote. Voting is not exciting. You can't do it on your phone. Marching in rallies is cool though. I wonder if many of them are actually learning the exact wrong lesson.

As for volunteering to have their "rights restricted" ..... even the teens I know that are part of a marksmanship program are not excited by gunz. They don't see it as a right they are interested in. They're not interested in driving cars either, which I find interesting (this is a rural area and car=independence).

-DSK

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I watched some of the coverage of the marches today

some of these kids are the politicians of the future

powerful orators

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I'm curious about one thing.... why are the teenagers all pissed off at the NRA and not at the FBI who completely failed to stop this event despite early and clear actionable information?  

That's because, unlike you, they don't see the  government as the enemy that needs to be defended against with guns.

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2 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

No need to imply it is about something else. You folks don't seem to understand it should be about fixing or helping those who are left behind by society. Those vulnerable to falling into an abyss of anti-social behaviors and doing our very best to see they succeed. That they don't fall prey to despair, depression, disenfranchisement. Instead you want to make it about guns. It really isn't about guns at all if you want to be honest about it.

It's the guns.

Every developed country has those other problems to one degree or another - it's a symptom of the changing times we live in. The loss of unskilled manufacturing jobs and the like.

The USA is different only in the fact that it has 300,000,000 basically uncontrolled guns.

Despite all the crap about "Nowhere else..... and American exceptionalism" and all the other dog whistle red herrings.

It's the guns. 

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This march gives new meaning to "don't let a tragedy go to waste".  It's really disgusting to see children exploited for a political agenda in the wake of a school shooting.  Typical liberal MO.

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3 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

This march gives new meaning to "don't let a tragedy go to waste".  It's really disgusting to see children exploited for a political agenda in the wake of a school shooting.  Typical liberal MO.

If you hate that, you're really going to hate the votes.

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7 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

This march gives new meaning to "don't let a tragedy go to waste".  It's really disgusting to see children exploited for a political agenda in the wake of a school shooting.  Typical liberal MO.

Bloody stupid comment. This march is about teenagers almost old enough to vote telling the politicians to take note.......  "We will be voting in a year or too. Ignore us at your own peril.  Get rid of the fuckin' guns!"

It's not going away. The next few mass murders that WILL happen will reinforce the movement until it overwhelms the NRA.