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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Dorado

Is Clean gone ?

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46 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:
6 hours ago, Ishmael said:

So how do we get rid of this case of downvote puppets? It's getting stupid on some of the forums, obviously some people have lots of time on their smegma-smeared hands.

The easiest ways would to be to limit votesto about 5 a day and not allow voting until you reach a certain rep level. 

Or just ignore the votes altogether.

they, as they are implemented on this site are about as good as shit on a windscreen.

I just remember who I like and who I don't like, just like people in the real world,  sometimes I even change my mind about who I like or don't like.  But not often.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

The easiest ways would to be to limit votesto about 5 a day and not allow voting until you reach a certain rep level. 

Do you think the voting system adds value to the site? 

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1 minute ago, floating dutchman said:

By value do you mean more shit fights?

Just interested in what BJ thinks about it.  He has probably said so but I missed it. 

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40 minutes ago, random said:
1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

The easiest ways would to be to limit votesto about 5 a day and not allow voting until you reach a certain rep level. 

Do you think the voting system adds value to the site? 

It could, if it was done right.

As it is implemented now - with the poo flingers and voting socks - it's fairly meaningless.

I've outlined how I'd like to see it used before. Keep ALL new members to a probationary status until they've received a few positive upvotes, then upgrade them to full access. This would cut down drastically on both spammers and shitposting attack socks.

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Somebody has been doing some dusting and cleaning, it seems. At least two of the downvote socks have been shut down. I hope.

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18 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

It could, if it was done right.

As it is implemented now - with the poo flingers and voting socks - it's fairly meaningless.

I've outlined how I'd like to see it used before. Keep ALL new members to a probationary status until they've received a few positive upvotes, then upgrade them to full access. This would cut down drastically on both spammers and shitposting attack socks.

Seems like you're in favor of an awfully heavy-handed moderation of this place.   Seems a bit out of line with the word "anarchy" and the original identity of this place.  

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6 minutes ago, MikeR80 said:

Seems like you're in favor of an awfully heavy-handed moderation of this place.   Seems a bit out of line with the word "anarchy" and the original identity of this place.  

You joined three+ years after us and you're reminding us of the tradition? Thank you for your contribution. The technology was a little different and there were far fewer shitposters then. Welcome to the internet as of 2018. Be glad you're not drowning in torrents of Russian wives and penis enlargement ads.

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6 minutes ago, MikeR80 said:
19 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

It could, if it was done right.

As it is implemented now - with the poo flingers and voting socks - it's fairly meaningless.

I've outlined how I'd like to see it used before. Keep ALL new members to a probationary status until they've received a few positive upvotes, then upgrade them to full access. This would cut down drastically on both spammers and shitposting attack socks.

Seems like you're in favor of an awfully heavy-handed moderation of this place.   Seems a bit out of line with the word "anarchy" and the original identity of this place. 

If you listen to my detractors, I was the Fucking Forum Nazi here for almost fifteen years moderating and keeping things running. If you've thought SA was heavy-handed in moderation over the years I was doing it, I can't help you on that. Most of the people that think that were people that couldn't stop acting like sociopathic dickheads and got banned a few times BTW.

The reality is less glamorous. And has been really, really light handed. We've tolerated bullshit for years from posters that would have gotten them permaflicked from other sites within hours. I've spent painstaking hours tracking down trolls and spammers to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what they were and giving them enough rope to hang themselves five or six times before flicking them for good.

SA has never had full time or paid moderators. So as many steps as you can take to cut down on the bullshit, the better. If there are some ways to make the community self policing and/or automate some of the management to cut down on the bullshit that would be an improvement.

My suggestion, which I've outlined elsewhere, is that new users come in with the ability to post replies and add comments. But they can't automatically make threads and do up/downvotes. The board supports an auto-promotion to new security groups based on a few triggers - either number or posts, or total community rating. So you set the boards up to auto-promote someone on say, their tenth or twentieth post, or based on receiving a certain small number of upvotes - say five. Set the bars low, it doesn't take much.

What that does is several things:

  • Pretty much puts an end to new account Spam threads. You need five upvotes to create a thread, you aren't going to get them from spamming threads with your Beats by Dre ads.
  • Pretty much ends the Upvote Spammer sock accounts. If you can't vote until you've gotten some approval from the community, well you can't play games.
  • Pretty much ends anonymous sock attack threads. Yeah, we get those.
  • Self-identifies the sock masters as they upvote their own socks to promote them

This actually takes these things OUT of the hands of moderators and put them into the hands of the community to self police. If someone is acting like a shitty troll, no one is going to give them enough upvotes to get them more privileges. Ditto for spammers.

Solves a lot of problems without having to hit the Report button and get a moderator involved. To me, some degree of self policing is a far better way to run a community like this. But to do that the software framework has to be set up more carefully and with more nuance than we've done it to date.

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9 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

You joined three+ years after us and you're reminding us of the tradition? Thank you for your contribution. The technology was a little different and there were far fewer shitposters then. Welcome to the internet as of 2018. Be glad you're not drowning in torrents of Russian wives and penis enlargement ads.

It also seems like he's unaware I was the doing the lion's share of the moderation here until June 2017. Natural mistake, since we didn't really advertise it. So if you weren't paying attention...

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

If you listen to my detractors, I was the Fucking Forum Nazi here for almost fifteen years moderating and keeping things running. If you've thought SA was heavy-handed in moderation over the years I was doing it, I can't help you on that. Most of the people that think that were people that couldn't stop acting like sociopathic dickheads and got banned a few times BTW.

The reality is less glamorous. And has been really, really light handed. We've tolerated bullshit for years from posters that would have gotten them permaflicked from other sites within hours. I've spent painstaking hours tracking down trolls and spammers to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what they were and giving them enough rope to hang themselves five or six times before flicking them for good.

SA has never had full time or paid moderators. So as many steps as you can take to cut down on the bullshit, the better. If there are some ways to make the community self policing and/or automate some of the management to cut down on the bullshit that would be an improvement.

My suggestion, which I've outlined elsewhere, is that new users come in with the ability to post replies and add comments. But they can't automatically make threads and do up/downvotes. The board supports an auto-promotion to new security groups based on a few triggers - either number or posts, or total community rating. So you set the boards up to auto-promote someone on say, their tenth or twentieth post, or based on receiving a certain small number of upvotes - say five. Set the bars low, it doesn't take much.

What that does is several things:

  • Pretty much puts an end to new account Spam threads. You need five upvotes to create a thread, you aren't going to get them from spamming threads with your Beats by Dre ads.
  • Pretty much ends the Upvote Spammer sock accounts. If you can't vote until you've gotten some approval from the community, well you can't play games.
  • Pretty much ends anonymous sock attack threads. Yeah, we get those.
  • Self-identifies the sock masters as they upvote their own socks to promote them

This actually takes these things OUT of the hands of moderators and put them into the hands of the community to self police. If someone is acting like a shitty troll, no one is going to give them enough upvotes to get them more privileges. Ditto for spammers.

Solves a lot of problems without having to hit the Report button and get a moderator involved. To me, some degree of self policing is a far better way to run a community like this. But to do that the software framework has to be set up more carefully and with more nuance than we've done it to date.

The boat design forum has a variant on this. IIRC you start off with a small positive rep score and can start threads, reply etc. As your rep score increases, your up/down votes on other peoples' posts carry more weight. You can't continually upvote another member, you have to spread the love around some, which takes care of the upvoting socks. Not sure about downvoting, probably the same, maybe not.

If you get downvoted to some negative score, you lost the ability to start new threads. Keep going negative and basically you get voted off of the island.

It happened to the unlamented Bent Swine. Nobody missed him.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The boat design forum has a variant on this. IIRC you start off with a small positive rep score and can start threads, reply etc. As your rep score increases, your up/down votes on other peoples' posts carry more weight. You can't continually upvote another member, you have to spread the love around some, which takes care of the upvoting socks. Not sure about downvoting, probably the same, maybe not.

If you get downvoted to some negative score, you lost the ability to start new threads. Keep going negative and basically you get voted off of the island.

It happened to the unlamented Bent Swine. Nobody missed him.

FKT

While mob rule can be capricious, it often tends to the grenade chuckers and idiots.

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On 13/04/2018 at 8:41 PM, B.J. Porter said:

While mob rule can be capricious, it often tends to the grenade chuckers and idiots.

Lord of the Flies.

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On 4/13/2018 at 5:41 AM, B.J. Porter said:

While mob rule can be capricious, it often tends to the grenade chuckers and idiots.

Lol BJ. I’ll bet when you drive a car, anyone going faster than you are is an idiot, and anyone going more slowly is a moron, huh?

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5 hours ago, chum said:

Lol BJ. I’ll bet when you drive a car, anyone going faster than you are is an idiot, and anyone going more slowly is a moron, huh?

I'm not unique in that regard, it works that way pretty much for anyone when driving.

But specifically when I refer to grenade chuckers and idiots here on SA, you have absolutely no idea of the bullshit I dealt with from some users over a decade and a half moderating here.

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Speak for yourself. I donr regularly think of other drvers around me as idiots and morons at all. They're just people going about their lives and in some cases doing it differently than I do. It doesn't make them wrong, just different. It's interesting to me that you think everyone feels that way.

 

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52 minutes ago, chum said:

Speak for yourself. I donr regularly think of other drvers around me as idiots and morons at all. They're just people going about their lives and in some cases doing it differently than I do. It doesn't make them wrong, just different. It's interesting to me that you think everyone feels that way.

 

So is the other bloke wrong or just different?

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3 minutes ago, chum said:

BJ? He’s just wrong.

And here come several more several more lengthy posts about how tough it is to be him. 

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2 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I'm not unique in that regard, it works that way pretty much for anyone when driving.

But specifically when I refer to grenade chuckers and idiots here on SA, you have absolutely no idea of the bullshit I dealt with from some users over a decade and a half moderating here.

Nobody held a gun to your head to police this place did they BJ? Something tells me you reveled in it. I don’t hang around anywhere else regularly, I feel like I’ve reached my comfort level here and I have no desire to sink much lower. I have to wonder how bad it would have been if you had fought the good fight like you did for so long. It could have been...Anarchy.

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On 11/04/2018 at 11:01 AM, dreadom said:

Fuck off Grumpy! Go back and crawl under your rock. You can’t deny that you posted pics of scantily clad bar(ely legal) girls in here. Wolfe’s called you out on it. I even got a months flick because I also mentioned your appalling actions. 

And you call Mad & Grumps bullies? How did my “appalling” actions get you flicked? Dude. 

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18 minutes ago, Dunyazad said:

And you call Mad & Grumps bullies? How did my “appalling” actions get you flicked? Dude. 

Why can I smell shninny!  Just a whiff of powdered shninny!  Is that you grumpy?

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12 hours ago, chum said:

BJ? He’s just wrong.

Crikey, you stepped into that one: "They're just people going about their lives and in some cases doing it differently than I do."  Cut the sanctimonious crap.  You're just as judgmental as he is.

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1 hour ago, nimbus said:

Crikey, you stepped into that one: "They're just people going about their lives and in some cases doing it differently than I do."  Cut the sanctimonious crap.  You're just as judgmental as he is.

Yes, you caught that bit of self deprecating humor, but no, I’m not even in the same league.

I didn’t say he was wrong, I said to speak for himself, big difference.

 

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22 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I'm not unique in that regard, it works that way pretty much for anyone when driving.

But specifically when I refer to grenade chuckers and idiots here on SA, you have absolutely no idea of the bullshit I dealt with from some users over a decade and a half moderating here.

I can only imagine.... While you & I don't see eye to eye on many topics - on this one?  I think that you were more accommodating, more often, than circumstances warranted, and deserve thanks for your patience and perseverance. 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I can only imagine.... While you & I don't see eye to eye on many topics - on this one?  I think that you were more accommodating, more often, than circumstances warranted, and deserve thanks for your patience and perseverance. 

Thanks.

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