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If someone would like to start a separate thread about John Fisher and/or about what VOR can/might/should do to avoid future similar incidents, that might be a good idea.  I don't personally mind that discussion staying in the VOR Leg thread, but I also don't mind if it gets split out into a separate thread so that the original thread can refocus on the boats still racing.  Very difficult to grapple with this tragedy.

But I'd really like us to split out any discussion of whether Hancock is right or wrong, a knowledgeable expert or a pompous ass, etc, into a separate thread.

It really bothers me that every tragedy turns into a statement from Hancock on the front page railing against everyone who coulda or shoulda done something better or differently.  It's very easy in any tragedy for anyone to declare what could or should have been done differently with 20/20 hindsight, and I feel that doing it immediately and publicly while emotions still run high is in poor taste, even if you're right.

It also really bothers me, specifically, that he said "but after two hours of searching in very brutal conditions they gave up".  I don't have firm facts, but my impression from the facts we've obtained so far is that they searched for 7-9 hours, until dark, and then they were ordered to move on for their own safety.  It was hopeless by the time they stopped, and probably had been for hours.  It was probably hopeless within an hour in those conditions.  But he felt entitled to declare in a statement published on a major website's front page that the MOB's crew quit after 2 hours.

Then he made it somewhat about himself, which is reprehensible under the circumstances:

"OK now you can have a go at me all you want. Call me Brian Handjob or Blowhard Hancock but I have earned the right to have an opinion. I have sailed those waters many times and know what it’s like when a cold, gray cresting wave comes up from behind to send you hurtling down the front of it."

I've written many emails (and forum posts) where I stopped at the end and said to myself "Is this a good idea to send/post?" and then hit delete instead.  That's the moment where a statement like Hancock's comes in, if you decide to proceed.  You start thinking "People won't like this, I need to defend myself in advance", when the right decision is "Let me delete this, or save it to drafts, edit it later, and post something more appropriate at a more appropriate time".  He chose to pre-defend himself and post.

So let me ask this:

- Can we please refrain from juvenile personal insults toward Mr. Hancock?  That would feed directly into his pre-emptive defense.  I'm hoping we can keep criticism relatively mature.  (I realize that's a tall order here)

- Can someone please educate me and others like me on his resume?  I assume its true he's been through the southern ocean, but I hadn't heard of him before he started getting SA front page articles and associated forum thrashings.  Is he a respected guru on an international board of offshore safety after having done two Vendee's and three VORs, or something like that?

- Anyone have any idea why SA puts whatever he wants to say on the front page, even if he's disparaging the crew of a boat that just lost a mate and searched for hours in heinous conditions?

 

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Good idea. 

Whether he is right or wrong as to his base issue of the boat design or time of search (upon which I bet he is wrong) is not the point. I tried to make this point in the other thread.

It is timing. And now is not the time. And the facts are needed not speculation.

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Hancock's rant was over the top, I would not have published it. But SA has a reputation to keep. Unfortunately, 'keepin' it real' is often just a license to hyperventilate.

 

Were there electronics failures? Personal locator failure? Unable to return to MOB position?

 

 

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HandOnCock is a pompous ass.  Put him on ignore and don't quote him please.

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I have to say I was pretty frustrated with the article as it seemed like a bad case of Monday morning quarterbacking. It’s also a big change from what he’s said in the past:

“To be sure, the decision to go with one design boats was a good one and made for some incredibly close sailing. Boats crossing jibes just feet apart deep in the Southern Ocean is high drama for sure. The cost of an entry has been reined in and better yet these current boats will be good for the next race.”

Read this article and see how different his approach is now. He’s been cheerleading this event for years and now it’s “obvious” it was too dangerous.

Just one more example from the article he wrote previously: 

 

It’s hard to imagine a more choreographed ending to what has truly been an exciting and nail biting event. The twelfth edition of the Volvo Ocean Race (originally named the Whitbread Round the World Race) is now in the history books and most would agree that it was the most successful race ever. From some incredibly close finishes, some high drama deep in the Southern Ocean when the Chinese boat Dongfeng dismasted, to a gut wrenching grounding on an Indian Ocean atoll by Team Vestus Wind, this race offered up more drama than anyone could have anticipated. Many, myself included, will be feeling withdrawal symptoms for weeks to come as we gaze longingly at our computers and phones looking for updates, but coming up empty.

http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/events/life-at-the-extreme/

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Pushing 50, unemployed and unemployable, professional sailor Brian Hancock found himself at a crossroads in life. After 30 years of racing sailboats around the world he was looking for a new challenge, one that would draw on his experience as a sailor, adventurer and author. He formed a partnership with an old friend and together they launched a brand new around-the-world yacht race, the Portimão Global Ocean Race.

Grabbing the World is a heartfelt account of what it takes to have a dream, to pursue it against all odds, and to prevail.

Surely you've heard of the Portimao Global Ocean Race?

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11 minutes ago, lasal said:

Hancock's rant was over the top, I would not have published it. But SA has a reputation to keep. Unfortunately, 'keepin' it real' is often just a license to hyperventilate.

 

Were there electronics failures? Personal locator failure? Unable to return to MOB position?

 

 

I suspect Handcock pays for his front page rants, the last time I asked my post was deleted.

lets see how long this one lasts.

And it’s winter in the Northern Hemisphere, post counts are down on SA, figure it out yourself...

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Your mom,

Ticks my box

 I can't conceive that Scally would have given up searching so quickly as he alleges, and is it odds with what VOR are saying. As rather reluctant, reactive communicators as they are when the s... hits the fan, as did it with Vestas going into HK, I prefer their account to Handjob's effort because they can't afford to get it wrong. 

Very offensive, immature, ill-considered effort in almost every respect, although I will nod to the notion that the cockpit  is extremely exposed. But let more informed, unemotional views be espoused when the circumstances of his MOB become known.

First post on the subject, so I'll convey my thoughts to his family and friends particularly,  and the Scally team, and to the whole fleet, who can't be feeling too good about things at the moment - and also acknowledging moments I've had when I have been involved, as I suspect most of us have, in instances very close to the wire, some of which in hindsight simply should not have been allowed to occur, but others which were beyond any reasonable anticipation in the circumstances.

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Funni to see the VoR fan-boys crying like little bitches everytime someone critisises their pet.

Great to see that there are experienced people out there who still tell it like it is and are not sucking from Satan's teat.  The same fucking hypicrites who would argue their right of Free Speech bleat like little pigs when SA publishes something they do not agree with.

Funni as shit to watch.

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The spinnaker comment was a dead give away.   

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53 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

HandOnCock is a pompous ass.  Put him on ignore and don't quote him please.

That’s why the front page is one of the most highly ignored pages on this site. 

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The guy critises the VO65 and RO yet he is behind this brain fart called SpeedDream. This is a 27' prototype of a 100' RTW race boat. Draw your own conclusions as to what it will be like sitting astride this in the SO.

 

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

 

- Can someone please educate me and others like me on his resume?  I assume its true he's been through the southern ocean, but I hadn't heard of him before he started getting SA front page articles and associated forum thrashings.  Is he a respected guru on an international board of offshore safety after having done two Vendee's and three VORs, or something like that?

 

 

He was working for Hood and Doyle in the 80s on the US east coast when I was just getting into sailmaking, and had  the title of  "off shore big boat consultant" or something like it for those shops if I remember correctly. Three RTW races I think of Drum and the Russian boat, can't remember the third one, rumored to have 1/4 million ocean miles.  

All I will say is that I have been to several safety at sea seminars since 2006 (to keep certification for the boats I am on) when I started to get back into longer offshore events on the new generations of boats, TP52 was the smallest... And at every seminar, everyone tries to ask what what about this technique or that technique and what about at night when blowing over 25...  The answer is each time from some of the best navigators in the world (one with 4 trips around) is - "In the ocean , stay on the boat, the new boats are too fast, you are dead, does not matter the gear to technique"... I have been locked in the back corner with it blowing 35 - 40 downwind on a IRC 55 footer in pitch black running conditions at night and that was is a nightmare, I can't imagine what they were dealing with last night.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

The guy critises the VO65 and RO yet he is behind this brain fart called SpeedDream. This is a 27' prototype of a 100' RTW race boat. Draw your own conclusions as to what it will be like sitting astride this in the SO.

 

yep , he's a god damn tard .

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The guy critises the VO65 and RO yet he is behind this brain fart called SpeedDream. This is a 27' prototype of a 100' RTW race boat. Draw your own conclusions as to what it will be like sitting astride this in the SO.

 

But you have to admit that the Portimão Global Ocean Race has been a rip roaring success.

"Brian Hancock formed a partnership with an old friend and together they launched a brand new around-the-world yacht race, the Portimão Global Ocean Race"

If only Volvo would listen to the advice of Brian, they too could have a success on their hands like the PGOR. :)

.

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What is the vessel being diverted for the recovery attempt?   I understand the inability of the other competitors to beat back, and the impossibility of Scallywag’s situation.  Is it a boat chartered by Volvo, a government boat, or is somebody else expected to follow the traditions of the sea while the Volvo boats sail away?

John Fisher clearly was both an extreme sailor and an adrenalin junkie.   Those that look for the safe course don’t race around the Southern oceans.    Yet we pour over his loss with far more emotion then the unnamed Chinese fisherman just trying to earn a living when his life was cut short by a sponsored sporting event.  Anybody who has lost friends or loved ones in accidents understands the anguish both families feel.  

Hancock must be an American.   As a culture, we are terrible at accepting the consequences of risky situations we put ourselves in and always seek to blame somebody else for not preventing it.  No disrespect to John Fisher is intended.   

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I am shocked that people want to bury the safety issue, but then again it seems to be the same showing up to pound their chest.  When a plane crashes and 100 people die no one sits around and waits to speculate. Also, the FAA takes considerable steps to evaluate all areas of error and remedy them so the issue does not continue/propagate. Why should this be any different? 

Long story short, I agree with his opinions.

It is not a matter of "if" we are taken from this world, but "when". 

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Boats hurtling down the face of a cresting breaker at 25-30 knots only to plow into the wave ahead sending waist deep water cascading down the deck. Just how many times can you do this without having someone on deck get washed into the wake and lost at sea? .....The Volvo Ocean Race management seem to have refused to acknowledge that their One Design fleet is a death trap waiting to happen ....John Fisher is now the seventh crew member to be lost at sea in the Volvo/Whitbread, and unless the boats are radically redesigned he won’t be the last.... The difference when I sailed there is that the speeds were less than half what the modern day sailors are experiencing

Of those seven tragedies :

3 occurred in the first race in 1973 in much slower designs. All were MOBs in the Southern Ocean

The 4th occurred in 1989 when Tony Phillips was washed overboard from a massive 80 foot sloop in the 89/90 edition.

The 5th was when Hans Horrevoets lost his life falling overboard from ABN Amro Two in 2006. ABN Amro was a Volvo Open 70, not a one design.

The 6th was John, who was the first to be lost from the Volvo since it started using One Design boats.

AFAIK, there was not a 7th but maybe I missed one.

 

I get the impression that Hancock avoids letting facts get in the way of his rants.

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, IPLore said:

Of those seven tragedies :

3 occurred in the first race in 1973 in much slower designs. All were MOBs in the Southern Ocean

The 4th occurred in 1989 when Tony Phillips was washed overboard from a massive 80 foot sloop in the 89/90 edition.

The 5th was when Hans Horrevoets lost his life falling overboard from ABN Amro Two in 2006. ABN Amro was a Volvo Open 70, not a one design.

The 6th was John, who was the first to be lost from the Volvo since it started using One Design boats.

AFAIK, there was not a 7th but maybe I missed one.

 

I get the impression that Hancock avoids letting facts get in the way of his rants.

 

 

 

 

 

There have been 2 deaths this race, not one.  The Chinese fisherman counts too, no?

Imagine the changes that would happen if 2 people were killed in one season of any other sport. Don’t know Hancock from Adam but I’m with him on this.

As for search time, doesn’t matter whether it was 2 hours or 10. The coast guard has very good data on likelihood of survival over time in the water at different temperatures. If that happened off the coast of Chicago in those temps they wouldn’t search for 7 hours. After 2 hours he was dead, likely much less.

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2 minutes ago, SOSOS said:

  The Chinese fisherman counts too, no?

 

The Chinese fisherman certainly counts as a human tragedy.

He doesn't count as "the seventh crew member to be lost at sea in the Volvo/Whitbread"  .   The article implied a succession of people who had been washed off the deck of the Volvo One Designs and lost at sea. 

There is one person who has been lost at sea off a Volvo 60.  One is too many, there is no need to exaggerate. 

I think that more serious people than BH with real experience in sailing in these kind of boats will give careful thought as to what design changes can be made to the next generation of boats to continue to improve crew safety.  I would be very interested in the opinions of skippers such as Bouwe who has sailed both versions in the V60 and can compare their safety features with prior editions.  But those serious people realize that this is just not the time to crow about how they were right and claim that the Volvo 60 was a death trap. 

This is a time to mourn John Fisher.

 

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5 minutes ago, IPLore said:

 

The Chinese fisherman certainly counts as a human tragedy.

He doesn't count as "the seventh crew member to be lost at sea in the Volvo/Whitbread"  .   The article implied a succession of people who had been washed off the deck of the Volvo One Designs and lost at sea. 

There is one person who has been lost at sea off a Volvo 60.  One is too many, there is no need to exaggerate. 

I think that more serious people than BH with real experience in sailing in these kind of boats will give careful thought as to what design changes can be made to the next generation of boats to continue to improve crew safety.  I would be very interested in the opinions of skippers such as Bouwe who has sailed both versions in the V60 and can compare their safety features with prior editions.  But those serious people realize that this is just not the time to crow about how they were right and claim that the Volvo 60 was a death trap. 

This is a time to mourn John Fisher.

 

Agree with all you said. There has been a push in the sport to go more and more extreme. The result, almost by definition, is less safety.  Without knowing details, it sounded to me like the next generation was continuing the trend. Will be interesting to see if the loss of life this race will cause a change of heart.

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1 hour ago, Aqua Logic said:

I am shocked that people want to bury the safety issue, but then again it seems to be the same showing up to pound their chest.  When a plane crashes and 100 people die no one sits around and waits to speculate. Also, the FAA takes considerable steps to evaluate all areas of error and remedy them so the issue does not continue/propagate. Why should this be any different? 

Long story short, I agree with his opinions.

It is not a matter of "if" we are taken from this world, but "when". 

+1 

It's inevitable that a high powered monohull doing those sorts of speeds in the Southern Ocean is going to lose someone over the side eventually, and it's almost inevitavble that they won't be able to retrieve a MOB in heavy downwind conditions.   The VOR65 is relatively safe by Mono standards, all major foresails on furlers, semi-protected cockpit, grab rails etc. Hancock is perhaps being a little alarmist but he makes good points.  As a one design there's absolutely no penalty to building in more safety, so by all means redesign the boats to be even safer, enclosed cockpits etc. but sooner or later someone needs to go to the foredeck and the risk of a MOB will always be there. 

The French maxi trimarans are a lesson in the art of the possible, but it's a very different style of platform.  Even then, to imagine that one of those won't eventually suffer a MOB is stupid.   Chances of recovery when the boat is an 18 ton trimaran in foils doing 40 knots in Southern Ocean conditions?

Despite massive developments in safety technologies, boat design advances have made deep ocean performance sailing a far more dangerous pursuit than it once was.  Life at the Extreme is a risky life.  Is what it is, sadly.  

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Hand cock in mouth disease. 

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2 hours ago, Aqua Logic said:

Also, the FAA takes considerable steps to evaluate all areas of error and remedy them so the issue does not continue/propagate. Why should this be any different? 

Long story short, I agree with his opinions.

Last time I looked Hancock is not the equivelent of the FAA. An equiry will be forthcoming. That is the time to form sound opinion, not 24 hours after the event with no information to hand.

If you think a self promoting headline chaser who has never stepped on a VO65 in anger and has no idea what occured provides a credible platform then you are a dumb cunt. 

 

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2 hours ago, IPLore said:

I would be very interested in the opinions of skippers such as Bouwe who has sailed both versions in the V60 and can compare their safety features with prior editions. 

The design of the VO65 was the subject of a lot of consultation. If Bouwe was one I don't know but surprised if wasn't. If they had their time again would there be changes, most certainly. It's called evolution.

It is a dry debate though when this thing is being pensioned off at the finish. 

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6 hours ago, Your Mom said:

If someone would like to start a separate thread about John Fisher and/or about what VOR can/might/should do to avoid future similar incidents, that might be a good idea.  I don't personally mind that discussion staying in the VOR Leg thread, but I also don't mind if it gets split out into a separate thread so that the original thread can refocus on the boats still racing.  Very difficult to grapple with this tragedy.

But I'd really like us to split out any discussion of whether Hancock is right or wrong, a knowledgeable expert or a pompous ass, etc, into a separate thread.

It really bothers me that every tragedy turns into a statement from Hancock on the front page railing against everyone who coulda or shoulda done something better or differently.  It's very easy in any tragedy for anyone to declare what could or should have been done differently with 20/20 hindsight, and I feel that doing it immediately and publicly while emotions still run high is in poor taste, even if you're right.

It also really bothers me, specifically, that he said "but after two hours of searching in very brutal conditions they gave up".  I don't have firm facts, but my impression from the facts we've obtained so far is that they searched for 7-9 hours, until dark, and then they were ordered to move on for their own safety.  It was hopeless by the time they stopped, and probably had been for hours.  It was probably hopeless within an hour in those conditions.  But he felt entitled to declare in a statement published on a major website's front page that the MOB's crew quit after 2 hours.

Then he made it somewhat about himself, which is reprehensible under the circumstances:

"OK now you can have a go at me all you want. Call me Brian Handjob or Blowhard Hancock but I have earned the right to have an opinion. I have sailed those waters many times and know what it’s like when a cold, gray cresting wave comes up from behind to send you hurtling down the front of it."

I've written many emails (and forum posts) where I stopped at the end and said to myself "Is this a good idea to send/post?" and then hit delete instead.  That's the moment where a statement like Hancock's comes in, if you decide to proceed.  You start thinking "People won't like this, I need to defend myself in advance", when the right decision is "Let me delete this, or save it to drafts, edit it later, and post something more appropriate at a more appropriate time".  He chose to pre-defend himself and post.

So let me ask this:

- Can we please refrain from juvenile personal insults toward Mr. Hancock?  That would feed directly into his pre-emptive defense.  I'm hoping we can keep criticism relatively mature.  (I realize that's a tall order here)

- Can someone please educate me and others like me on his resume?  I assume its true he's been through the southern ocean, but I hadn't heard of him before he started getting SA front page articles and associated forum thrashings.  Is he a respected guru on an international board of offshore safety after having done two Vendee's and three VORs, or something like that?

- Anyone have any idea why SA puts whatever he wants to say on the front page, even if he's disparaging the crew of a boat that just lost a mate and searched for hours in heinous conditions?

 

I joined SA in January of this year probably for the same reason as many of you: to get more information about the VOR, and other sailing issues.

I did not even know the Front Page existed until I somehow subsequently read Hancock's diatribe about the Vestas 11 collision outside HK, and, I confess, I went ballistic. While I am usually fairly careful and do some research  before I post things, I basically said "Who is this guy?" and went on to state, well, maybe rant would be more accurate, how irresponsible, uninformed, premature, speculative, etc. the writer and the article was at that very early stage after the incident. Of course, understandably, I was promptly told who B Hancock was, and saw a number of similar comments to mine about the article and him.  I think it is appropriate to have a/this separate thread on that general topic, for what it's worth.

 

 

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5 hours ago, southerncross said:

The spinnaker comment was a dead give away.   

Worrying is he is a sailmaker.

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2 hours ago, SOSOS said:

There have been 2 deaths this race, not one.  The Chinese fisherman counts too, no?

Imagine the changes that would happen if 2 people were killed in one season of any other sport. Don’t know Hancock from Adam but I’m with him on this.

I'm no statistician but if you took the cumulative miles per person and incidents involving loss of life then this race is probably one of the safest offshore events going. 

Also if you take out the inaugral edition where three died, that number what ever it is halves.

That is not to say there is no room for continual improvement, but so far those responsible for this aspect, onboard and ashore, they seem to be doing a pretty good job.

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7 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Can someone please educate me and others like me on his resume?  I assume its true he's been through the southern ocean,

Apart from that stated above his Whitbread resume is pretty soft. 

Was on Outward Bound in 81/82 where half the race crew walked off on pre race delivery upon finding out Digby Taylor owner/skipper was a nutter.

Drum in 85/86 when after she lost her keel pre-race, enthusiasm to join crew list diminished.

The Russian boat Fazi in 89/90 a dead loss program skippered by Novak who skippered Drum and was begging for help.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Apart from that stated above his Whitbread resume is pretty soft. 

Was on Outward Bound in 81/82 where half the race crew walked off on pre race delivery upon finding out Digby Taylor owner/skipper was a nutter.

Drum in 85/86 when after she lost her keel pre-race, enthusiasm to join crew list diminished.

The Russian boat Fazi in 89/90 a dead loss program skippered by Novak who skippered Drum and was begging for help.

Soft? I don't agree with all that BH say's. I am at best, an offshore amateur . But, his resume is far stronger than mine. How about yours, Jack_Sparrow?

 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pretty happy with it Hitch actually.

Soo. Super soft.

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

A safe bet, harder than your dick.

Keep stroking it.  You won't get there. You have no game. OUT!

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The article extreme anger, was ill timed. But I think there should be a bigger discussion about ocean racing with one design boats. You can find posts that there are hints that the VOR 60 isn't made with confort in mind:

Quote

Writing to confirm the rules
As people can see right now just writing to confirm the rules. It is very damp downstairs, water starts dripping off the roof so want to keep the computer away from getting fried. Water and electricity two big enemies and we have plenty of both. On the Volvo 70's we had that perfectly solved. A little diesel heater was installed and that made it all the difference to keep the boat dry and as well helped to get the foullies to dry a bit in between two watches. But when this class came together, I am sure and sailor have said: they don't need that, it is a tough race, the sailors have to toughen it out. Easy said when you are sitting home on the sofa:-)

Some can see how the sailors by not having any warmth when they are offshore, they don't have their mental focus up to 100% and mistakes are more frequent to happen. 

I think that safety and comfort can't be left on the teams to be added on the boat, because none will choose safety over performance. I think safety and comfort has to be added in the design of boat if it is one design, and here is where VOR management might have. I am not only talking for getting hosed or not, but also there should be a way to get warmth and rest in a race that expect sailors to be 24/7 at 100% of their game.

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BH will never cease to amaze me, I'm struggling with an English dictionary to find the words to properly define his stupididty and cockiness.

I always intentionally avoid reading his garbage, and like someone wrote above, only two sentences were enough  to know who had written that piece.

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4 hours ago, IPLore said:

I think that more serious people than BH with real experience in sailing in these kind of boats will give careful thought as to what design changes can be made to the next generation of boats to continue to improve crew safety.  I would be very interested in the opinions of skippers such as Bouwe who has sailed both versions in the V60 and can compare their safety features with prior editions.  But those serious people realize that this is just not the time to crow about how they were right and claim that the Volvo 60 was a death trap. 

This is a time to mourn John Fisher.

 

 

Looks like there are more socks around here than the entire VoR fleet.

All the whiney little girls crying into their skirts beause someone tells it ilke it is.  Seems people aren't used to some straight talking and start lining up any spare resource in the VoR team to control social media including forums.

I think that using the "time to mourn John Fisher" angle to silence discent is disgraceful!  Everyone could see that someone was going to get hosed off one of these boats uncluding Brian Handcock.  I stopped following this race because I got sick and fucking tired of seeing the same pictures of sailors getting hosed and hearing stories of injuries as a result.

NO FUCKING ENQUIRY is needed to determine that the boats are dangerous and provide no effective shelter for the crew.  So shut the fuck up with the let's mourn for the dead guy.  If it had been me I would want to discuss why I was dead and to prevent it happening to others.

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he says tomottoo, you say tomatoe. 

can't we all..jus get along??

 

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Brian has been well respected at times,  and had participated in the Whitbread,  managed teams, and organised races. However he has become increasingly bitter as he has become less relevant. 

He threatened to sue,  maybe he is still trying to, his business partner from the GOC. As far as I can tell that has gone nowhere. The book he wrote about having the race stolen from him seems to have gone the same way. 

He is evenly balanced,  having a chip on both shoulders,  and seems to find verification in spouting mistimed, ill informed, badly researched, and badly written, drivel in an attempt to stay relevant.

He knows full well that with a case like this there will be an official enquiry. No doubt he will try and get involved with that as he desperately clings to the yachting industry. 

As others have pointed out he uses his articles to show that he still counts by saying 'told you so', despite the fact that he often contradicts himself.

The fact that he has used the death of a colleague, and friend, as a way of continuing his clutch on the sailing industry is frankly disgusting,  and maybe slightly unhinged.

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1 hour ago, random said:

 

.  So shut the fuck up with the let's mourn for the dead guy.  If it had been me I would want to discuss why I was dead .

Now that's a discussion that would be greeted with a lot of enthusiasm on these forums! 

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59 minutes ago, Potter said:

Brian has been well respected at times,  and had participated in the Whitbread,  managed teams, and organised races. However he has become increasingly bitter as he has become less relevant. 

He threatened to sue,  maybe he is still trying to, his business partner from the GOC. As far as I can tell that has gone nowhere. The book he wrote about having the race stolen from him seems to have gone the same way. 

He is evenly balanced,  having a chip on both shoulders,  and seems to find verification in spouting mistimed, ill informed, badly researched, and badly written, drivel in an attempt to stay relevant.

He knows full well that with a case like this there will be an official enquiry. No doubt he will try and get involved with that as he desperately clings to the yachting industry. 

As others have pointed out he uses his articles to show that he still counts by saying 'told you so', despite the fact that he often contradicts himself.

The fact that he has used the death of a colleague, and friend, as a way of continuing his clutch on the sailing industry is frankly disgusting,  and maybe slightly unhinged.

Yeah Potter, all opinion accepted for being just that.

My opinion is in complete alignment with Hancock's.  I do not need background on his business ventures to assess that,  I leave that to those who are attempting to discredit what he said, by discrediting him.  That's just gutless and frankly disgusting I say.

I agreed with him when he warned of this, and I agree with him now now.

You OTOH have not even attempted to critique the facts as he laid them out ... because he is right.

 

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It reads like an old bloke trying to rant his way to some sort of relevance. His written  diarrhoea about Whitty and the sudo cream and again his comments about criticising the RO or whoever penalised just make me double check the name at the bottom of a rant on the front page before giving it a few moments of my life.

Go out into the mountains, Brian. You are not relevant and your thoughts are about as useful as wax covered toilet paper. 

Just fuck off and do it quietly.

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23 minutes ago, Swanno said:

It reads like an old bloke trying to rant his way to some sort of relevance. His written  diarrhoea about Whitty and the sudo cream and again his comments about criticising the RO or whoever penalised just make me double check the name at the bottom of a rant on the front page before giving it a few moments of my life.

Go out into the mountains, Brian. You are not relevant and your thoughts are about as useful as wax covered toilet paper. 

Just fuck off and do it quietly.

Fucking great work Swanno, keep up the great work on the character assassination and I really like the touch of 'ageism' you put in there just to spice it up a bit!!!

Still nothing refuting what he said ... cause he is 100% correct and that's what is really getting up posters noses.  Funni as shit to watch.

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9 minutes ago, random said:

Fucking great work Swanno, keep up the great work on the character assassination and I really like the touch of 'ageism' you put in there just to spice it up a bit!!!

Still nothing refuting what he said ... cause he is 100% correct and that's what is really getting up posters noses.  Funni as shit to watch.

Brian may be right but his timing is terrible!

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2 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Brian may be right but his timing is terrible!

He wrote it, he did not decide to publish here.

The timing issue is just another excuse by those who do not like the message.  Me?  I think it is spot on.  Why wait until after several attempts to wallpaper over it with waves of mouring.  Shake these cunts up!

We have seen and are still seeing footage of crew working on these boats with no safety equipment on them and not clipped on.  Now if it is simply not practical to work with the supplied equipment then there is a problem to solve!  Does one of the skippers have to be charged with negligence?

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20 minutes ago, random said:

Does one of the skippers have to be charged with negligence?

Someone should track you down and punch your fuckin lights out on Witty's behalf you germ.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
26 minutes ago, random said:

Does one of the skippers have to be charged with negligence?

Someone should track you down and punch your fuckin lights out on Witty's behalf you germ.

HI-JACK, what a nice surprise to get a personal note from you! 

Have you been telling little ol random porkies about having me on ignore?   I think so!!!!

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Someone should track you down and punch your fuckin lights out on Witty's behalf you germ.

+LOTS

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Who the fuck moved the rock away?
It has been so nice around here for a while, with the top-cunt being silent.
But someone moved the rock, and now he is polluting each and every thread again.
I was hoping he was out fighting global warming, but he is back to all he knows. Pointing fingers, in his usual "so you're saying" pathetic way.

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Keep up the great work guys.  It's so awesome to see the tradition of the SA Sofa Captain upheld, you know, when you got nothing you attack the messenger?

Clearly BH deserves this treatment, after all he predicted that this shit was likely to happen, then had the fucking gall to remind us all of that!  It's so annoying when someone who clearly knows more than you do, has more sea miles than you do in this very race ... is right!

So annoying!

So keep it up guys, keep attacking the messenger.  I don't care what everyone says, I don't see that as a sign that you got nothing and are just really really fucking pissed-off that he is right!

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If you guys stopped quoting Random, life will improve immensely 

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37 minutes ago, random said:

HI-JACK, what a nice surprise to get a personal note from you! 

Have you been telling little ol random porkies about having me on ignore?   I think so!!!!

image.png.f346d1c6961e0da0a7cae550a301435a.png

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I am surprised so many are trying to shout Brian down, rather than address the issues he raises.  Also saying "now is not the right time" is an overused tactic to silence a debate you are not comfortable with.  I think it is a tribute to someone who has made the ultimate sacrifice to raise pertinent issues and make changes to make sure it doesn't happen again.  That certainly was the case when "Bart" Simpson died.

These Volvo boats are being race harder than ever and with 3 foresails up it is going to take impossibly long to turn around to retrieve a MOB.

IMOCAs and Class 40 have way more protection, and while these VOR 65's have some sort of coach roof it is still far too inadequate for the level of racing that is being done.  I guess water cascading over the deck makes for dramatic footage, but it is dangerous and bad seamanship.

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36 minutes ago, 34 South said:

I am surprised so many are trying to shout Brian down, rather than address the issues he raises. 

Fuck him, his issues and his kangaroo court. Until it is revealed what happened all this is is a armchair inquest being orchastrated by Hancock for blind people, for which you are clearly one.

36 minutes ago, 34 South said:

...to raise pertinent issues and make changes to make sure it doesn't happen again..

Correct, that is what the Enquiry will determine with the benefit of the facts, not speculative bullshit. For instance there is no evidence to hand that he was washed over the side as Hancock is claiming. There is a multitude of other scenarios.

Wait for the facts and until then shut the fuck up.

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
31 minutes ago, 34 South said:

I am surprised so many are trying to shout Brian down, rather than address the issues he raises. 

Fuck him, his issues and his kangaroo court.

Great content Jack!  Keep it up mate, all good stuff there.

giphy.gif

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4 hours ago, Potter said:

Brian has been well respected at times,  and had participated in the Whitbread,  managed teams, and organised races. However he has become increasingly bitter as he has become less relevant. 

He threatened to sue,  maybe he is still trying to, his business partner from the GOC. As far as I can tell that has gone nowhere. The book he wrote about having the race stolen from him seems to have gone the same way. 

He is evenly balanced,  having a chip on both shoulders,  and seems to find verification in spouting mistimed, ill informed, badly researched, and badly written, drivel in an attempt to stay relevant.

He knows full well that with a case like this there will be an official enquiry. No doubt he will try and get involved with that as he desperately clings to the yachting industry. 

As others have pointed out he uses his articles to show that he still counts by saying 'told you so', despite the fact that he often contradicts himself.

The fact that he has used the death of a colleague, and friend, as a way of continuing his clutch on the sailing industry is frankly disgusting,  and maybe slightly unhinged.

You read my thoughts.  And then edited them slightly to redact the cruel comments about his long list of failures.  Nice work. 

This was tragic.   And yet not one of those sailors and OBRs stepped on these boats without knowing the possibilities.  That's the game that we choose to play.

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10 hours ago, IPLore said:

But you have to admit that the Portimão Global Ocean Race has been a rip roaring success.

"Brian Hancock formed a partnership with an old friend and together they launched a brand new around-the-world yacht race, the Portimão Global Ocean Race"

If only Volvo would listen to the advice of Brian, they too could have a success on their hands like the PGOR. :)

.

Would appear that after 2 editions it died.

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9 hours ago, IPLore said:

Of those seven tragedies :

3 occurred in the first race in 1973 in much slower designs. All were MOBs in the Southern Ocean

The 4th occurred in 1989 when Tony Phillips was washed overboard from a massive 80 foot sloop in the 89/90 edition.

The 5th was when Hans Horrevoets lost his life falling overboard from ABN Amro Two in 2006. ABN Amro was a Volvo Open 70, not a one design.

The 6th was John, who was the first to be lost from the Volvo since it started using One Design boats.

AFAIK, there was not a 7th but maybe I missed one.

 

I get the impression that Hancock avoids letting facts get in the way of his rants.

 

 

 

 

 

C'mon IPLore - why let the facts get in the way of a good story.

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20 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Would appear that after 2 editions it died.

Because the first two editions had pathetic attendance and next to zero coverage. 

The OP was asking for factual evidence to support or dispute  whether BH is well qualified to advise Volvo Race management and pontificate on how it should be done. He is not.

I will have a  wager that neither Volvo Ocean Race Management, nor any of the teams, nor any of the skippers, nor any of the crew members, nor any of the designers will ask for any input from BH. I doubt that a man or woman among them considers him relevant or worth paying attention to.

It is already well known that the boat design is being replaced for the next edition. It is obvious that crew safety will be a major factor in any design criteria. It is obvious that the design teams and race management will seek detailed input from the skippers and teams. It is also obvious that the Scallywag MOB incident will be carefully and factually reviewed as part of this process AS WELL AS other incidents that were not fatal.  BH adds nothing, absolutely nothing in terms of insight to that process.

The conspiracy theory nuts who are suggesting that VOR management and the designers deliberately commissioned a dangerous design in order to increase excitement and viewership.....are just that....nuts!

 There will always be nut cases appearing at random in situations like this.

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I really shouldn’t get involved but Brian Hancock really is stirring the pot – why?

So much “when I were a lad” and uninformed drivel.

When he was a lad and earned the right to comment (last time he did this race was 27 years ago by the way) Rothmans was doing this (see photo).

And why am I getting involved? Well a sailor – and an SA newbie PM’d me with the comment “Probably more a has-been. Seeking attention” but didn’t want the usual trolling that often follows a newbie post.

Let’s start at the top shall we. If the author of “Extreme Anger” was so incredibly well informed and experienced he would be as 99% sure as I am that John Fisher WAS NOT wearing a “survival suit”. These are heavy neoprene lined things you get into when the ship is sinking. It is many years ago since I climbed into one but once in, all that is visible is your face and as far as any activity is concerned – forget it, they are not for grinding, stacking, driving, they are for surviving in. More likely John was wearing a dry suit which ARE NOT survival suits, they don’t have the same thermal protection.

Brian Hanckock suggests that these boats are absurd for sailing in these waters as if they are the first type of racing boat that has water rushing down the deck and are dangerous well – hello Brian - wasn’t Fasizi, the boat you did your last Whitbread in compared to a submarine?

And the VO65 and the VOR70 before them which have collectively been used in the last 4 Volvos are certainly no wetter than the Rothmans crew in the shot below. (the W60’s weren’t exactly dry either).And didn’t the keel fall off one of the other boats Mr Hancock did the race on? Now that’s really safe isn’t it! (Drum lost her keel on the Fastnet - they screwed it back on and went and did the Whitbread. (Well they actually properly re-bolted it but you know what I am getting at)

I could go on and on and was sorely tempted to do so but decided not to for three reasons.

Firstly now is not the time for a blame game, especially from someone who last took part in the event almost 3 decades ago – if people want to come back and try it again, be part of a team, raise the sponsorship and come play.

Secondly, it doesn’t really matter what any of us guess or suggest caused the MoB NONE of us know. Even the crew of Scallywag, bless them, won’t know 100%, the only person who really knows what went wrong sadly has died and we should all respect that and – yes, perhaps shut the fuck up about it, at least give them all a bit of breathing space.

Finally, I have spent the last 36 hours primarily in the company (electronically and personally) with people a hell of a lot closer to this than anyone here in the site - many of you know my involvement with Dongfeng Race Team – and the whole Volvo ‘family’ is hurting right now – cut them some slack.

Potter knows what I mean.

That’s all – I am emotionally drained – out of here!

SS

PS I hope the photographer who took the Rothmans shot doesn’t mind me using his photo from the 89-90 race

Rothmans playing Submarine.jpg

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Just one question that I hope someone on this thread has the answer to: I'd like to know if these crew members have PLB/AIS location beacons afixed/available. The news feeds from the site are silent about it and going back over the photos I can't recall ever seeing any crew on any boat with a beacon. Without a beacon the chances of locating a COB are likely less than 1and a billion.

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1 minute ago, Walkabout08 said:

Just one question that I hope someone on this thread has the answer to: I'd like to know if these crew members have PLB/AIS location beacons afixed/available. The news feeds from the site are silent about it and going back over the photos I can't recall ever seeing any crew on any boat with a beacon. Without a beacon the chances of locating a COB are likely less than 1and a billion.

Each crew member has both AIS and PLB, Fish had both on him.

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25 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

PS I hope the photographer who took the Rothmans shot doesn’t mind me using his photo from the 89-90 race

Shang. Rick Tomlinson the first OBR except he was crew first, then part time photographer.

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Brian Hancock and his fellow ranters really do need to grow up. A true sailor will not be considering such things as anger, blame, and fault, when things like this happen.
No one forces any sailor to sail in the VOR and I have little doubt that every sailor entering the race realises they are highly likely to die if they go over the side. Whatever safety gear is or isn't used or carried and whatever the design of the boat the risk of death if you go overboard at even a moderate speed in rough conditions in an ocean is always going to be enormous for too many reasons to bother counting. The risk of going overboard can be addressed but never practicably reduced to zero in an event like this.
These sailors are people who know what they are doing, who know what they are doing it in, and who know what risks they are taking, and they are doing it because they want to. Its called freedom.
My sympathies go out to those who will mourn the loss of John Fisher, and to David Witt and his crew.

 

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Shang. Rick Tomlinson the first OBR except he was crew first, then part time photographer.

That's who i thought Jack but I wasn't 100% certain. It is one of my favourite yachting images of all time - thanks for confirming that

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Here's another Tomlinson

It would appear the W60s were pretty wet boats too - note the harness clipped to the stanchion5abb9c96cb435_IntrumJustica.jpg.ed232158a7853c4a6f33eebabed99549.jpg

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7 minutes ago, staysail said:

Brian Hancock and his fellow ranters really do need to grow up. A true sailor will not be considering such things as anger, blame, and fault, when things like this happen.
No one forces any sailor to sail in the VOR and I have little doubt that every sailor entering the race realises they are highly likely to die if they go over the side. Whatever safety gear is or isn't used or carried and whatever the design of the boat the risk of death if you go overboard at even a moderate speed in rough conditions in an ocean is always going to be enormous for too many reasons to bother counting. The risk of going overboard can be addressed but never practicably reduced to zero in an event like this.
These sailors are people who know what they are doing, who know what they are doing it in, and who know what risks they are taking, and they are doing it because they want to. Its called freedom.
My sympathies go out to those who will mourn the loss of John Fisher, and to David Witt and his crew.

 

This is the second death in this years race 

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5 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

This is the second death in this years race 

So?

(This thread is about Hancock and his ill considered rant.)

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21 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Shang. Rick Tomlinson the first OBR except he was crew first, then part time photographer.

In fact he did 4 Whitbreads/Volvos as OBR :-) The story I heard was he a boatbuider with Drum and took photos of the build, they were liked so he went on board and took lots more, then Rothmans, followed by Intrum Justica and then EF. In fact if you include his current role as Race Expert in the current event i believe he has been 'involved' with 10 Volvos but I could be wrong.

SS

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2 minutes ago, staysail said:

So?

(This thread is about Hancock and his ill considered rant.)

Perhaps his rant Is a call to make the race safe.

behaviors..... like sail stacking... dont increase crew  safety ay sea 

you should keep an open mind and make positive contributions 

 

IMG_8410.JPG

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10 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Despite massive developments in safety technologies, boat design advances have made deep ocean performance sailing a far more dangerous pursuit than it once was. 

DD, I'd argue it was more dangerous in the past. Around Alone tragedies to name a few.  Statistically, I'd say technology has improved safety and recovery a great deal.

The increasing speeds of the boats are a whole other factor to deal with.

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6 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Perhaps his rant Is a call to make the race safe.

No it is just an ill considered rant. This kind of race cannot be "safe" as he understands the word, or no sailor who I would want to follow would think it worth entering. An angry man does not write sensibly.

 

I think the difference between you and me is that you would ban the IOM TT race.  It is undeniably dangerous. I think it is a fantastic event, and I admire those who ride in it.

I value my freedom and that of others, to partake in exciting pursuits.

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16 minutes ago, southerncross said:

DD, I'd argue it was more dangerous in the past. Around Alone tragedies to name a few.  Statistically, I'd say technology has improved safety and recovery a great deal.

The increasing speeds of the boats are a whole other factor to deal with.

Southern, I'd completely agree with you. In the past the tethers were less reliable, the clips were more likely to come undone, there was were no PLBs no personal EPIRBs, fuck when i started dinghy sailing there were no wet suits, let alone dry suits, self inflating lifejackets, lifejacket hoods, strobes were ordinary bulbs that hardly illuminated the next wave crest - safety has probably come further than any other aspect of our sport.

And Staysail - IoM TT, Guy Martin etc, a huge fan. My mate back in the UK won the old IoM Grand Prix. I was a biker myself but so the TT? No chance but like you state - freedom of choice.

SS

 

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16 hours ago, Your Mom said:

 

It also really bothers me, specifically, that he said "but after two hours of searching in very brutal conditions they gave up".  I don't have firm facts, but my  for 7-9 hours, until dark, and then they were ordered to move on for their own safety.  

 

 

I dream about putting him on the boat when they reach Chile, and then force him to say this to their faces. 

In general, one should never say something about somebody if you can’t tell it to their face. And since he’s as old and experienced as Medusa, he probably will state that he lives by this rule. 

Of course he doesn’t. But I fantasize about seeing him do that, and then let the team show to HIS face how they feel about the way he has publicly portrayed their rescue effort. 

I personally want to hurt him. He has said something terrible about people I care about. Innocent people who at the moment can’t answer. I hope they get the chance to meet Hancock. 

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It would be great if people who are NOT Southern Ocean veterans would be quiet. I am interested in hearing from people who have experienced these sea conditions and can make useful comments instead of know-it-all blabber. The fact is that the VOR is a commercial venture (a business) and like all businesses the first priority is NOT the comfort or safety of crews but dollars. It may well be that if the sailors who were going to sail the boats were also designing them, then they would be different in ways affecting comfort and safety.

 

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9 minutes ago, Guvacine said:

It would be great if people who are NOT Southern Ocean veterans would be quiet. I am interested in hearing from people who have experienced these sea conditions and can make useful comments instead of know-it-all blabber. The fact is that the VOR is a commercial venture (a business) and like all businesses the first priority is NOT the comfort or safety of crews but dollars. It may well be that if the sailors who were going to sail the boats were also designing them, then they would be different in ways affecting comfort and safety.

 

You better listen to anyone who has something to contribute 

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Clippers ......................... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

you should keep an open mind and make positive contributions 

 

 

Like Brain Handcock?   He's already decided who to blame before the crew have even reached shore or VOR management had a chance to conduct an investigation.

I am sure that VOR wants to start gathering facts but despite those who view them as some kind of ghoulish capitalist pigs, the reality is that most of the people in the organization are first and foremost sailors who realize what it must be like for the crew of Scallywag at this time. Their priority...and IMO, the right one.....is to provide support to Scallywag.

When Scallywag is safely in port at Chile and everyone is warm and the right emotional support is in place, then there can be a supportive and understanding debrief conducted by people who truly understand the modern boats, the conditions and what can go wrong. Guvacine is right, it will not be one of us. But I can guarantee they wont be flying  Blind Handcock out there either. 

 

   

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2 minutes ago, IPLore said:

But I can guarantee they wont be flying  Blind Handcock out there either. 

OK ..what about just take off, then open the door.

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http://sailinganarchy.com/2018/03/28/extreme-sadness/

extreme sadness

It’s been a seriously tough few days for the 65 sailors and 7 OBR’s ripping through the Southern Ocean right now in the Volvo Ocean Race.

It’s cold, wet and rough (it goes without saying) but unless you have experienced it personally, it’s hard to portray the extra edge that competition gives this already tough environment. As much as we all look forward to getting ‘down south’ there isn’t one person out there who isn’t counting the hours until it’s done.

That said, as tough as it has been for the fleet in general, nothing will compare to the torment that John Fisher’s family will have endured and the sadness and guilt that all his fellow crew members will be dealing with right now.

We have lost a friend, but they have lost a husband, a father and a crewmate.
I have spent much of the last year working alongside John, clocking up thousands of miles together, whilst battling through good and bad times both on and off the water, and he was the most supportive, amiable and steadfast friend and colleague you could wish for. Through thick and thin he propped us all up with his unwavering optimism and professionalism.

Everybody’s personal story around their decision to compete in these events is different but watching him live out his dream took me back twenty-five years to when I did my first race and it saddens me beyond belief, that I won’t be able to shake his hand at the end of it.

This is not the last time I will pay my respects, but for now ‘Fish’, I salute you and all you stood for, thank you for everything you did for us all and know that you will live long in all our memories ……..

These situations are surrounded by emotion and most of it is natural and totally understandable, but it struck me upon reading an article on Sailing Anarchy (extreme anger) that the further removed you are from the situation, the less right you have to express it, especially when it’s not grief or sadness.

Anger is the reserve of his wife, children and close family and the rest of us owe it to them to show our respect and then politely take a back seat. The very last thing I want is a ‘war of words’ but to quote the author I too “have earned the right to have an opinion” and when the time is right and in the right circumstances I will express mine.

There is a huge number of unknowns around this incident, and when the crew complete the, not insignificant, task of getting themselves ashore with their minds still in one piece there will be the appropriate de-briefs and eventually we can all learn what happened and collectively make the process of ocean racing safer.

This process has been going on for decades and, especially in recent years, the progress made in the overall safety of the event is considerable, despite the boats being quicker and more spectacular.

I respect the author for his time at sea, much of which was in way riskier boats than we have now and before the extensive training, equipment and monitoring of the current race but I don’t think it’s right to apportion blame at this early stage especially without more detail.

I strongly disagree that the boats themselves, the designers of those boats, or those that organize the race have avoided responsibility or done anything that puts sailors lives at risk. Aspects can be improved of course, but the implication that the boats are too dangerous is unfounded and the idea that anyone is complicit in John’s death is offensive to a great many of us that trust in those same boats, people and procedures when we put to sea.

None of us are stupid and if the situation was as described we would be negligent in our duties to our families and that is simply not the case.

The sport itself is inherently dangerous, we all acknowledge that, but we do so knowing that the equipment, procedures and, most importantly, our team mates mitigate that risk to an acceptable level and as competitors we all make a conscious decision to leave the dock. I can never quite explain why I do what I do and indeed the last 24 hours have made me think even more about those motives, but I do know that if the risk was somehow completely removed then the attraction would be gone.

There will be some that don’t agree, and they are entitled to their opinions; there will be some that disagree with my view on the safety of these boats and I respect them too, but please let’s not express polarizing views on potential causes in the wake of a man’s death without being in full possession of the facts. I am not trying to push the opposite view or promote debate, and don’t particularly concern myself with the future of the but am keen that we draw proper conclusions based on evidence.

There have been fatalities at sea over the course of this race, and each one is tragic and devastating in equal measure. If you look the VOR / Whitbread race four competitors lost their lives in the earlier races with three in the first race 1973 and one in 1989.

Four more events and fifteen years passed until Hans Horrevoets was sadly lost approaching the UK in 2006 and now we face another tragedy twelve years on. I am not happy with that safety record and one life lost is one too many but until the right people can make the right decisions based on the facts it’s simply pointless to try and suppose what would have saved his life. The implication that it’s getting more dangerous is not supported in evidence.

The deeper question is ‘why’ we choose to compete rather than how. We could have safer boats, safer routes and many other protections but at some point, it simply wouldn’t be worth doing. I don’t for a moment underestimate the significance of this tragedy and it’s truthfully shaken me to my core but it’s important to recognize that no-one is being forced to go out there and we all do it with a deep and well understood acceptance of the risk.

I am not angry, I am deeply saddened, and I feel desperately sorry for his loved ones to whom I offer my sincere condolences

Steve Hayles

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8 minutes ago, southerncross said:

[Steve Hayles]:These situations are surrounded by emotion and most of it is natural and totally understandable, but it struck me upon reading an article on Sailing Anarchy (extreme anger) that the further removed you are from the situation, the less right you have to express it, especially when it’s not grief or sadness.

Anger is the reserve of his wife, children and close family and the rest of us owe it to them to show our respect and then politely take a back seat. The very last thing I want is a ‘war of words’ but to quote the author I too “have earned the right to have an opinion” and when the time is right and in the right circumstances I will express mine.

And like the rest of his painful reply,  that's an opinion to be respected and remembered.

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