southerncross

VOR Leg 8 Itajaí to Newport

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Its yacht racing........get over it.

Bull.  Nothing to do with a 6,000 mile offshore race.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Bull.  Nothing to do with a 6,000 mile offshore race.

So are you calling Mapfres result bullshit?

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Just now, mad said:

So are you calling Mapfres result bullshit?

Give it a rest Mad.  

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Give it a rest Mad.  

Just trying to understand your premise for it being bullshit??

Light wind sailing is just as much part of sailing as heavy weather.

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Amy had her questions for Tuke well prepared. Finally!

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Just now, mad said:

Light wind sailing is just as much part of sailing as heavy weather.

Just watched the Tuke interview.

It is.  Plenty of light wind sailing experienced on the course.  Doldrums galore.  And there is an inport race for the fans to watch heavy 65's float around.  But drifting up rivers in the dark where no fan can see after all the tactical moves offshore and squeezing out every knot ... it's like adding a costal race to an offshore race.  

 

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5 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Just watched the Tuke interview.

It is.  Plenty of light wind sailing experienced on the course.  Doldrums galore.  And there is an inport race for the fans to watch heavy 65's float around.  But drifting up rivers in the dark where no fan can see after all the tactical moves offshore and squeezing out every knot ... it's like adding a costal race to an offshore race.  

 

Clearly they should have anchored up south of Nomans and waited for the breeze to fill it to make it more entertaining for you!

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Just now, TPG said:

Clearly they should have anchored up south of Nomans and waited for the breeze to fill it to make it more entertaining for you!

:lol:

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There is a middle way. All the French offshore events start further out and end further in. Getting escorted out and in with crowds is pretty special. 

 

The VOR captains and teams are all clean this cycle. But with this close to shore imagine if someone hired a drunken speed boat to make loops around an opposition. 

 

For me the past two legs also show Xabi's dominant style. MAPFRE is an entirely different org. They get upset like everyone else. But whether Rob, Xabi - all get on with it. 

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8 minutes ago, Miffy said:

There is a middle way. All the French offshore events start further out and end further in. Getting escorted out and in with crowds is pretty special. 

The difference there is there's actual spectators.

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Well done Mapfre!

Setting an example about why you never give up and keep pushing hard to the very end.

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I'm so pissed at myself. I set an alarm to wake me up at 5 so I could go down to the fort, instead I set it to 5 pm and woke up just as they were finishing. FML 

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Just now, RImike said:

I'm so pissed at myself. I set an alarm to wake me up at 5 so I could go down to the fort, instead I set it to 5 pm and woke up just as they were finishing. FML 

We thought about going down, then decided sleep was nicer.

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On 4/22/2018 at 2:39 PM, EYESAILOR said:

MAPF : They still have an edge 

TRBU : Just because I respect Bouwe so much for his leadership and contribution to the VOR and I want him to go out a podium winner. Secretly, down in my heart I would love Bouwe to win the whole thing but I realize this is unrealistic.

DFRT :  Still have an edge but its gets whittled away each leg

AKZO:  Best of the rest, now that Vestas is off the pace.  Finding their inspiration and cohesion as pre-race problems fade into the distance. CN is on eof best watch captains in the race.

VESTAS :  Mast tune slows early progress. SciFi navigation keeps them in the picture until they find their pace in second half of the leg   

TTOP:  They challenge TRBU, AKZO and VESTAS all the way up the coast but dont quite close the deal on this long leg.

SHKS :  To a huge welcome in Newport.

MAPF  Prediction 1st - Check  But Wow, no credit for that prediction. Incredible comeback in the final 48 hours and bullet on the last tack. Congratulations for sheer steadfast  competitiveness.

TBRU Prediction 2nd - Check.   But what a heart breaker in the last hour.  Sadly those 2 lost points make the math near impossible for my dream comeback. Bouwe will always be a legend in my book.

Vestas :  Predicted would get better as leg progressed but did not have them on the podium.   They have recovered their early VOR form much more quickly than I expected and then turned a 4th into a 3rd in the final approach. So glad they earned a podium in their home port. This was the only boat I placed in the wrong position and I am very happy to be wrong.

DFRT : Predicted 3rd, finished 4th when Vestas passed DF on final hours. For a long time DF looked like might be 1st or 2nd.  Then even gave up 3rd. Did Charles get too stressed?

AKZO :  Best of the rest in this leg, except for Vestas who jumped from prediction of 5th to 3rd.

TTOP : Predicted 6th - Check  They challenged TRBU, AKZO and VESTAS all the way up the coast but didnt quite close the deal.

SHKS :  They will get a huge welcome in Newport. Check

I got 6 out of 7 of the boats in the right order. Vestas was the only boat who jumped out of order with a very strong recovery from travails.

 

 

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SHKS is in . . . Mission accomplished. Another major accomplishment. All the  boats in the VOR have accomplished impressively. Love this race.

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I got 6 out of 7 of the boats in the right order. Vestas was the only boat who jumped out of order with a very strong recovery from travails.

You win. Well done. :lol:

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33 minutes ago, southerncross said:

... it's like adding a costal race to an offshore race.  

 

Yup. Its round the world, ocean and coastal racing.

I am huge Brunel fan and will have to book a shrink session this week to get over the finish BUT I 100% hand it to Mapfre......they are showing why the most well rounded team will win the Volvo. They have a deep playbook. Congrats,

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

 All the  boats in the VOR have accomplished impressively. Love this race.

+1

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Sophie Ciszek interview: Time Out and Recovery

May 8, 2018

“The next legs, especially the Transatlantic, are going to be fun and full of action which will be tough, but I enjoy this type of sailing..it’s all getting very close and I think these legs anyone can win so it’s going to be exciting”

You have taken a break from racing for Leg 8, what was the reason for that?

I have had an ongoing injury to my elbow. It started a few legs ago, 10 days before we headed out into the Southern Ocean. I had surgery on my left elbow in Melbourne, I went into the leg feeling pretty good but definitely not 100%. Throughout the leg it didn’t get the sufficient rest it needed to recover.  The team, my doctor and I made the decision to take this leg off so that from Newport I would be ready to go, to put in and push hard for the last 3 legs of the race. It’s going to be tough and a fight if we still want to win the Volvo Ocean Race.

Can you describe the feeling of being on the sideline due to injury and how you cope with the mental challenge of ‘missing out’ and how to stay positive?

Yeah, missing a leg of the race is the last thing I ever wanted to do, as soon as the gun went and they were off on the start it definitely felt weird not to be with them, especially as i’d never been on the sideline since joining Mapfre. It’s a mind game really but I just had to remind myself why I was sitting out, focus on that and on the positive things and make sure I’m ready for when I do get to be back onboard. It also is a good opportunity to focus on eating good food, training physically in the gym and cross training in other sports that are fun to mix it up a bit. Also getting good sleep in a dry warm cosy bed! haha!!

Have you been glued to the tracker?

I have definitely been glued to the tracker but when your team is struggling it is also hard to watch! Sometimes you just wish you could send them some more wind, or a lucky cloud. It’s been good to see the race from the outside see how other teams sail, what they do tactically, also looking at all the photos and videos. If only I was more of a computer nerd I would probably spend most my day on the tracker but I love being outdoors too much, although I will admit I checked it in the night when I was up!

What are you most looking forward to in the remaining legs of the Race?

The next legs, especially the Transatlantic, are going to be fun and full of action which will be tough, but I enjoy this type of sailing and I want to help my team fight our way back into the lead if possible. It’s all getting very close and I think these legs anyone can win so it’s going to be exciting. Also the long legs are over so it’s just put our heads down and fight for everything we have left until the finish. Also, the Transatlantic hopefully means we will have some fast fun sailing which is always great.

I can’t wait to get back out there!

http://themagentaproject.org/offshore-sailing/sophie-ciszek-interview-time-recovery/

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Didn't wake up for the finish nor know the Newport waters, but shouldn't DF have just covered MAP as they are the main rivals for the overall? Could they even see them? 

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Just now, southerncross said:

 

Yep, staying in bed was the right call. ;)

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5 minutes ago, southerncross said:

 

Typical. Cloud problem, but Chris N quickly pointed out others had cloud issues too. he never settles for the easy answer.

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Trying to retrace what happened to Dongfeng.  Thought I read they caught something? Crab pot?  Or just parked?

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^^^ Thanks SX. Been waiting for Nico's interview. Seems no problem just routing mistakes that they collectively own and obviously some bad luck which he very graciously didn't even mention. The difference between hero and zero in this race is not a lot.

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6 minutes ago, DLT said:

Didn't wake up for the finish nor know the Newport waters, but shouldn't DF have just covered MAP as they are the main rivals for the overall? Could they even see them? 

Rewind the Tracker carefully then your question will be answered.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Trying to retrace what happened to Dongfeng.  Thought I read they caught something? Crab pot?  Or just parked?

Hooked up on something, man over then clear. Probably helped them from being swept further out.

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^^ love Nicho’s view, not walking away from it but own it, learn from it and get back into it.. :)

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Hooked up on something, man over then BB clear. Probably helped them from being swept further out.

Ugh.  Paraphrasing Chinatown:  "Forget it Jack.  It's Yacht Racing".

 

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Well that sucks big time. Glad I went kiting instead of following that clusterfuck. The kiting was great and the waves were huge, far better.

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685 posts to recap, can't you guys just get a life ;):wub:

5 new vids, incl. 1 summary, 1 animated recap, 3 Mapfre IVs. There's certainly more to come:
 

 

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THIS RACE IS FAR FROM OVER - CAUDRELIER

08-05-2018

I'm already focused on the future and I'm not going to dwell on losing this race like that. I am thinking about the next one and I promise Dongfeng Race Team will do a fantastic job next time again," Charles Caudrelier

After suffering a cruel twist of fate at the finish of Leg 8 of the Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18, that saw Dongfeng Race Team drop from first to fourth in the last 20 miles, Charles Caudrelier struck a defiant note with his focus switching to the next leg across the Atlantic.

“The race is far from finished and there are double-points scored on the next one – it is not finished,” said the Frenchman as Dongfeng docked in the early morning fog in Newport, Rhode Island where almost windless conditions and a strong ebb tide turned the ranking inside out.

The drama at the end of Leg 8 saw MAPFRE complete her comeback from sixth place all the way to take an unlikely leg win by one minute and one second from long time leader Team Brunel, while Vestas 11th Hour Racing crept past Dongfeng to round out the podium.

The result means MAPFRE now takes a three-point lead in the overall scores into Leg 9 to Cardiff over Dongfeng Race Team, although the Chinese crew, sponsored by Dongfeng Motor Corporation, is virtually certain to gain one point at the finish as a result of having the shortest overall elapsed time for the race.

Naturally Caudrelier could not hide his disappointment at the end of a 16-day leg which saw Dongfeng disputing the lead for much of it and sailing a confident and polished race amid hopes that it could repeat its leg win here from three years ago.

“Of course we are disappointed,” he said. “We were dreaming about another victory here. I think we sailed very well until early this morning and then I don’t know what happened. We were quite slow downwind and probably there was a bit of plastic that we caught on the rudder and I imagine we had something on the keel – we should have checked earlier.”

But Caudrelier quickly moved to the next challenge across the Atlantic. “It really is a tough moment for Dongfeng Race Team but it makes me angry and I will be better on the next leg. I’m already focused on the future and I’m not going to dwell on losing this race like that. I am thinking about the next one and I promise Dongfeng Race Team will do a fantastic job next time again,” he said.

Bruno Dubois, the Dongfeng Team Director, watched the agonising last miles in the early hours of the American morning from on shore. He too was looking on the positive side. “We are still in the game – we are a couple of points behind MAPFRE – and we are still looking pretty good in terms of elapsed time. Our objective is to get ready for the next leg – with double points it will be very important,” said Dubois.

Dongfeng crew member Carolijn Brouwer of the Netherlands, also reflected on the final stages. “We have had a really tough leg or a tough finish I should say,” she said. “It was very disappointing for us obviously. Fifteen miles before the finish it looked completely different and then it was a turnaround and unfortunately it did not go our way.”

She revealed that as Dongfeng was creeping up the harbour to the finish line she could hear her young son, Kyle, shouting encouragement from ashore at Fort Adams. “I couldn’t see him at the time because of the fog, but I could hear him and then when I eventually saw him, it is in that moment that you instantly forget about the tough finish and the disappointing results…we will bounce back and be ready for the next leg, but now it is time to enjoy time with Kyle and our families,” she added.

Chinese sailor Chen Jinhao – also known as Horace – knows what it is like to win in Newport and he spoke of the frustration of watching the other boats sail past them at the death.

“Last time when we came into Newport we won the race less than a minute ahead of Abu Dhabi Ocean Racing. This time it is the complete opposite. We stopped and with the current pushing us backwards. We were watching the other boats on AIS and they were trying in other areas and they succeeded and passed us one-by-one,” he said.

“It is a very disappointing moment on board even now,” he added, “but this is part of the race. Sometimes you are facing a win, sometimes you have to deal with mistakes and sometimes there is a bit of luck involved too.

“There are still three legs to go. The next leg will be important and throughout the whole race we have believed in ourselves. Every time when we are racing we are working for a top spot, so we just need to make sure we don’t make any mistakes and believe in ourselves. We will keep pushing and be good,” concluded Horace.

Dongfeng Race Team is making its second consecutive appearance in the Volvo Ocean Race and is aiming to improve on its performance last time round when it finished third overall. The team is also committed to helping the sport of offshore sailing grow in China.

https://www.dongfengraceteam.cn/news/view/this-race-is-far-from-over-caudrelier

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

Bull.  Nothing to do with a 6,000 mile offshore race.

Plus 1.  Life at the extreme... of light air lotteries and drift-fests.  Too much of this is about luck.

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The arrivals of the first 4 boats, prize giving etc. + 1 x C Caudrelier aded:

 

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I don't know if DF caught some plastic but they had good speed till the end of the exclusion zone and even to that 1st mark i would say. Also other boats had problems, especially Mapfre with their keel control. And we have seen how much they use that keel for trimming and image the pain to have those controls not on the helm but below deck.

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Justin Ferris wonders about the speed of mode changes, and how such a little detail can make such a difference.

Right. Takeaway is a credit to how OD racing has allowed teams to be able to develop such skills, in the ongoing struggle against just settling for “it’s just luck.”

 

 

 

 

 

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5x Brunel added, Vestas will be next, but first I need to get some food...
@Elisa, enjoy :)

 

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^^ Thank you Rennie, I most certainly will! :).... might even work as a little therapy for this blow on the nose ^_^

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25 minutes ago, stief said:

Justin Ferris wonders about the speed of mode changes, and how such a little detail can make such a difference.

Right. Takeaway is a credit to how OD racing has allowed teams to be able to develop such skills, in the ongoing struggle against just settling for “it’s just luck.”

 

 

 

 

 

Don't care to get into a spat over it and respect that you ain't one of the trolls that populate this thread but do you really mean that?  You really don't think luck had a lot to do with the shuffle in the last 15nm?  How about the last 3nm?  Can you really look at those tracks and say that is fair racing not impacted by luck?  If RC, would you have started a race in those conditions or postponed?

I mean it is what it is but it does not feel like the best sailing influenced the finishing positions as much as luck did because the conditions for those last few nm.  That does not seem like gear shift/managing transitions kinda stuff, rather who got a puff (or whatever) and who didn't.

It just seems to diminish the race, IMHO, not that there is anything realistic they can do about it.

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5 minutes ago, Wess said:

Don't care to get into a spat over it and respect that you ain't one of the trolls that populate this thread but do you really mean that?  You really don't think luck had a lot to do with the shuffle in the last 15nm?  How about the last 3nm?  Can you really look at those tracks and say that is fair racing not impacted by luck?  If RC, would you have started a race in those conditions or postponed?

I mean it is what it is but it does not feel like the best sailing influenced the finishing positions as much as luck did because the conditions for those last few nm.  That does not seem like gear shift/managing transitions kinda stuff, rather who got a puff (or whatever) and who didn't.

It just seems to diminish the race, IMHO, not that there is anything realistic they can do about it.

I agree that sailboat racing is much ado about luck, like gambling. But that’s just the base line. Controlling for luck is what it’s about, and not just with rabbit feet and the like, but discovering real, minor differences that can be controlled.

take Vila, for example. One of the worlds best navigators could not intuit which way a cloud would go. I think he too will take all his skill and experience, and try to guess better.  As SC pointed out upthread, his playing of the odds didn’t work too many times. Will he do better? I’d guess he will be trying to use all his skill and experience to try and better his odds  in many future situations

Controlling for luck is the game, not just settling for the easy answer that it is “just luck.” Dee is working on how to do that, as are they all. And they’re getting better.

sorry if that isn’t clear enough, but it is an attempt at an honest answer.

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30 minutes ago, Wess said:

Don't care to get into a spat over it and respect that you ain't one of the trolls that populate this thread but do you really mean that?  You really don't think luck had a lot to do with the shuffle in the last 15nm?  How about the last 3nm?  Can you really look at those tracks and say that is fair racing not impacted by luck?  If RC, would you have started a race in those conditions or postponed?

I mean it is what it is but it does not feel like the best sailing influenced the finishing positions as much as luck did because the conditions for those last few nm.  That does not seem like gear shift/managing transitions kinda stuff, rather who got a puff (or whatever) and who didn't.

It just seems to diminish the race, IMHO, not that there is anything realistic they can do about it.

 

 I disagree. That finish was frustrating but also awesome in it's own way - for example, the way BRU played the shifts after rounding the exclusion zone was magic, even if the current did trip them up in the end. With a 5000 mile race, you don't get to choose when they finish, and the clipper ships - upon who's routes this race is loosely modeled - didn't stop in the middle of the ocean. The reality is that any one of these legs can turn into a parking lot/restart at any time, and that's just part of racing. The ocean is a fickle and capricious mistress.

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Still more than 300 posts to read... phew...
Dock-in B-roll, Vestas and some other stuff (5 uploads), more Mapfre and some Akzo to follow:

 

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Let's keep a little perspective, in the not so recent history, if two boat finished an ocean race. Within 12 hours of each other it was considered epic.  These are longer races than any of the "classic" Sydney Hobart, Bermuda, Fastnet, Trans Atlantic or Transpacs and the fleet is finishing within a few hours of each other.   These boats are fast enough and dynamic enough to make these last minute dramatics possible. 

The traditional finish line at Newport is a bearing off of Castle Hill Lighthouse, about a mile seaward of Ft. Adams.  They used to start the Bermuda Race at Brenton Reef, which is about 3 miles out.  Either could reasonably be considered where you leave the Atlantic and enter Narragansett Bay. More recently ocean races  have started between Ft Adams and Rose Island.  This trend started with the BOC Race in '82  ( I think).   And the finishes have been off the Fort.   These few miles  have added  some additional risk the events.  So much of coastal racing around these parts depends on when the tide turns and where you are on the course. There are tide gates that open and close, if you get though them you are styling, if not nourish nuts are in the brambles. In one Annapolis Newport, a 40' yawl was swept backward onto "The Butterball" and sank.  I often have the anchor ready and have used it more than once. Once anchored to prevent being flushed, we saw the entire fleet closing on us with spinnackers set in the new sea breeze. We could no nothing but wait and only beat them home by a few minutes, correcting to DFL.

So this particular shit fight is part and parcel of finishing early in the morning in Newport. It is complete chance whether you finish drifting in the fog at dawn, or basting in at 20 knots in mid afternoon. It is just a matter of timing, no different than the weather pattern during a championship.  It isn't necessarily unfair, but you hate it when it fucks you.

SHC

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Renny, it’s going to take many more hours to catch up on all your finds. Appreciated nonetheless. The whip calls; TTFN.

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10 minutes ago, stief said:

Renny, it’s going to take many more hours to catch up on all your finds. Appreciated nonetheless. The whip calls; TTFN.

We have two weeks of stop-over silence...

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24 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

The ocean is a fickle and capricious mistress.

Except it didn't finish in the ocean.

24 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

I disagree. That finish was frustrating but also awesome in it's own way - for example, the way BRU played the shifts after rounding the exclusion zone was magic, even if the current did trip them up in the end.With a 5000 mile race, you don't get to chose when they finish, and the clipper ships - upon who's routes this race is loosely modeled - didn't stop in the middle of the ocean. The reality is that any one of these legs can turn into a parking lot/restart at any time, and that's just part of racing. The ocean is a fickle and capricious mistress.

I agree.  It was an exciting finish (from what I can piece together).  Being a big fan of Mapfre's (thus the many posts on the subject) I was more than pleased with their win.

All the skills needed are brought to bare on the ocean including mitigating bad luck, managing light air, no air, heavy air, breakages transitions etc.  I just don't know what it proves after all this to see which boat can drift across the line quicker without snagging a pot for example or having to anchor into the finish.

Anyway, just read Hancock's view of the matter on the FP and he is on the same side of the fence.  So, I'll have to rethink the matter tout suite.

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21 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

So this particular shit fight is part and parcel of finishing early in the morning in Newport. It is complete chance whether you finish drifting in the fog at dawn, or basting in at 20 knots in mid afternoon. It is just a matter of timing, no different than the weather pattern during a championship.  It isn't necessarily unfair, but you hate it when it fucks you.

Seems true of most of the Leg finishes, not just Newport.

Wondering if any of this will change if/when IMOCA gets involved as the French have a different way to start and finish an offshore race.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

 

Anyway, just read Hancock's view of the matter on the FP and he is on the same side of the fence.  So, I'll have to rethink the matter tout suite.

What's the 'FP'? :)

But I get your point. I honestly think part of the issue is that all of the offshore boats are so fast now (in terms of being able to connect weather systems) and the routing is so sophisticated that we've become spoiled and maybe expect too much. But let's unpack it a different way - where would you have ended the race? At the exclusion zone? That would've been just as much of a crap shoot, just with different results and the pain compressed into a shorter timespan.

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4 x Mapfre (lots of Spanish), 3 x Akzo... Dongfeng to come...

Edit: 4 x Dongfeng added now...

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25 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

But let's unpack it a different way - where would you have ended the race? At the exclusion zone? That would've been just as much of a crap shoot, just with different results and the pain compressed into a shorter timespan.

Gawd.  Are we really going down this rabbit hole?  Discussion, shit fight, insults, trolls.  Ah, what the hell.  The Leg is over.

Finishing inshore is like diverting race cars off the track after 500 laps to finish in a parking lot hoping they don't run over a nail or hit a shopping cart.

I would finish it on the ocean as close to the harbour entrance as possible - like a Vendee.  All the Leg finishes are different.  There's not always an exclusion zone at the finish. 

Anyway, it is what it is and most of the crew and skippers, although very disappointed with the upsets, are resolved to chalk it off as Yacht Racing.

 

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Gawd.  Are we really going down this rabbit hole?  Discussion, shit fight, insults, trolls.  Ah, what the hell.  The Leg is over.

Finishing inshore is like diverting race cars off the track after 500 laps to finish in a parking lot hoping they don't run over a nail or hit a shopping cart.

I would finish it on the ocean as close to the harbour entrance as possible - like a Vendee.  All the Leg finishes are different.  There's not always an exclusion zone at the finish. 

Anyway, it is what it is and most of the crew and skippers, although very disappointed with the upsets, are resolved to chalk it off as Yacht Racing.

 

Leg 1, 2014-15 edition Mapfre becalmed under table mountain as SCA skids by to take 6th. Boats hit things, crap gets stuck on their foils, wrong naviguessing in the doldrums, caught in a bad current, breakages, etc, so on, so forth. Shit happens. The top 4 boats all deserve credit for getting themselves in the position to have a chance. Luck and mother nature is part of it. 

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To all of those who have been out front in a drifter and had this happen, its reliving the most frustrating feeling and if I may speak for the robbed we commiserate with TB. On the other hand for all of those who have done buffalo girls to a parked up fleet, we celebrate with TM :)  Yacht racing is making me skitzo

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Like @southerncross I have no interest to get things spun up over it (the luck element of deep inshore finishes).  Like I said it is what it is and not a whole lot you can do about it assuming you want to maximize the possibility for public viewing.  As others noted the nature of this is such that sometimes boats and crews get screwed or benefited through no fault or skill of their own. I guess my primary point would be that absent the OD factor this would be far less a problem as the boats would be more strung out at the finish and so it would be less likely that some fluke would impact the scoring as it often seems to in this Volvo.  Given the OD factor and close finishes I wonder if the sailors themselves would prefer to see the finish lines moved out a bit more but again, it is what it is.  I am not enough of a fan to care much either way.  I am more a Vendee kinda guy.  Peace and love; peace and love...

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Feel gutted for Dong Feng. I hope they enjoy some delicious Del’s frozen lemonade, with a healthy dose of rum of course. 

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Gawd.  Are we really going down this rabbit hole?  Discussion, shit fight, insults, trolls.  Ah, what the hell.  The Leg is over.

Finishing inshore is like diverting race cars off the track after 500 laps to finish in a parking lot hoping they don't run over a nail or hit a shopping cart.

I would finish it on the ocean as close to the harbour entrance as possible - like a Vendee.  All the Leg finishes are different.  There's not always an exclusion zone at the finish. 

Anyway, it is what it is and most of the crew and skippers, although very disappointed with the upsets, are resolved to chalk it off as Yacht Racing.

 

I was genuinely curious where - specifically - you would have ended the Newport leg. Since you brought it up.

I hardly see that as either 'insulting' or 'trolling'. 

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18 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

I was genuinely curious where - specifically - you would have ended the Newport leg. Since you brought it up.

I hardly see that as either 'insulting' or 'trolling'. 

I didn't mean you. 

When you open a discussion like this it usually devolves into a shit fight (from others joining in), followed by trolls and the usual cleanup crew.

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Southerncross has a good point though, we all know that luck is a huge part of winning a drifter, we are not talking a newb vs a pro here either. Both teams are at the top of their game and within a few boat lengths.

It is an ocean race, not a harbour race otherwise they may as well have shipped the boats to Newport and put the startline a mile offshore, as far as I am concerned TB were totally robbed and the result does not reflect their true placing for a 5000 mile race that they dominated.

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10 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

Southerncross has a good point though, we all know that luck is a huge part of winning a drifter, we are not talking a newb vs a pro here either. Both teams are at the top of their game and within a few boat lengths.

It is an ocean race, not a harbour race otherwise they may as well have shipped the boats to Newport and put the startline a mile offshore, as far as I am concerned TB were totally robbed and the result does not reflect their true placing for a 5000 mile race that they dominated.

I happen to agree with SC that perhaps the race should end out in the ocean, but if it did, there is a very good chance that DF, who led coming into the exclusion zone, would have won it - not TBRU.  For that reason alone, I don't think it's fair to say TBRU was robbed.  I'm not saying DF was robbed either - all teams faced the same conditions at the end, and the playing field was even.   

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3 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

It is an ocean race, not a harbour race otherwise they may as well have shipped the boats to Newport and put the start line a mile offshore, as far as I am concerned TB were totally robbed and the result does not reflect their true placing for a 5000 mile race that they dominated.

It's the only offshore race that I can think of where the entire fleet comes back three weeks later to do an inport race for fans in the very waters the Leg finishes.

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All the emotion and disappointment was evident as Brunel crossed the line and Bouwe threw his hat to the deck in frustration and despair. They led that leg and won almost all of the major tactical decisions only to see an unpredictable puff blow Mapfre across the line in first place.

If anyone deserves to win a Volvo it is Bouwe and Capey.

But sailing has always been a sport with an element of the unpredictable.  Bouwe will wake up tomorrow and look at the last two legs results and be deservedly proud of his team.  The big double point Atlantic leg is next. Go the Yellow.

This leg was not over until it was over . The VOR is not over until its over.  I echo earlier posters...what an amazing race this has become since the switch to One Design. 

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

I didn't mean you. 

When you open a discussion like this it usually devolves into a shit fight (from others joining in), followed by trolls and the usual cleanup crew.

Fair enough. The good news is ignoring the #1 troll seemed to pay off, there was relatively little BS last night when we were all freaking out! :)

Having said that, it was frustrating to watch the boats doing donuts for 3 hours within spitting distance of the finish, but at the same time - much as I was hoping for a Brunel victory - the results (to me) did kind of reflect what was happening for most of the leg in the following way:

Mapfre was fast, relentless in their claw back from their early fall off the back of the bus/technical issues, perfectly strategised in their final approach between chasing BRU and finishing ahead of DF, and capitalized on a momentary opportunity at the end. That was a Spithill worthy comeback!

Brunel sailed a tactically perfect race except for a minor hiccup approaching the exclusion zone where they got too far west, and the last 200 meters before the finish, but - and it's a big 'but' - they often seemed off the pace a bit, especially with regards to DF when they were in similar conditions/sailing angles. 

Vestas was never completely out of the hunt, and had some serious game at the end - they soaked nearly that entire leg after the exclusion zone while the leading boats were already beginning to explore donut mode with that jibing frenzy. Probably just some local pressure filling in, but looked wild on the tracker and was key to their final placing.

DF was super fast - always posting great numbers, also relentless, but made a number of questionable decisions which sometimes paid off, but in the end cost them. I almost feel like they had 'good' luck before the 'bad' luck - their best tactical move was getting east of BRU before the exclusion zone. It also seemed like they got frustrated at the end instead of finding the zen-like focus necessary to win in those kind of conditions, but that's just a guess.

TTOP was a little off the pace throughout, took a gamble at the end that had potential but in the end was trapped by the black hole off Pt Judith as one of the local posters predicted.

As for Scalawag, my daughter and I just love em, win lose or draw. They are the underdog, they have already pulled a bunny out of the hat with a leg win, they have faced tragedy...but they finished where they should have.

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giphy.gif

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2 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

Can't wait to see DF and MAPFRE in the in-port.

 

No kidding - they have some uh 'issues' to resolve LOL

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No matter where you put the finish line, “luck” will always be involved. The French have finishes “outside” for many reasons that have nothing to do with fairness....

A suggestion:

One lot of points for passing through a gate ”outside” and another set for the “harbour” finish. A boat that is well ahead, deservedly gets the lot, or if the finish is as outrageously close as this one was, you spread the joy and reduce the pain?

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1 minute ago, Sidecar said:

No matter where you put the finish line, “luck” will always be involved. The French have finishes “outside” for many reasons that have nothing to do with fairness....

A suggestion:

One lot of points for passing through a gate ”outside” and another set for the “harbour” finish. A boat that is well ahead, deservedly gets the lot, or if the finish is as outrageously close as this one was, you spread the joy and reduce the pain?

An ocean race is port-to-port, quite simple.

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4 hours ago, Wess said:

Don't care to get into a spat over it and respect that you ain't one of the trolls that populate this thread but do you really mean that?  You really don't think luck had a lot to do with the shuffle in the last 15nm?  How about the last 3nm?  Can you really look at those tracks and say that is fair racing not impacted by luck?  If RC, would you have started a race in those conditions or postponed?

I think the luck factor in this specific finish was not that big. The conditions were pretty consistent for the first 3 boats which arrived at the end of the exclusion zone. It was not like there suddenly a breeze came in on a side of the track where out of sheer luck one boat was positioned. It was more or less the normal compression at the front when a fleet is approaching any low wind zone. You might say that the overtaking by Mapfre during the last 200m was luck but it was also down to hard work.

But if you go down that road then the whole race is about luck. Which cloud to catch or not, where you drift in the Doldrums, are you arriving too early or too late to a weather system, ... I think it's a combination where the part you work for is much bigger than the part influenced by luck.

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In case anyone missed it.

 

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5 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

An ocean race is port-to-port, quite simple.

Still is, you don’t stop and restart...... a clear winner still gets the lot.

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2 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

No matter where you put the finish line, “luck” will always be involved. The French have finishes “outside” for many reasons that have nothing to do with fairness....

A suggestion:

One lot of points for passing through a gate ”outside” and another set for the “harbour” finish. A boat that is well ahead, deservedly gets the lot, or if the finish is as outrageously close as this one was, you spread the joy and reduce the pain?

That's a great suggestion to balance the need to have the boats finish close to spectators and be fair with whoever did the best job offshore. I mean, MAP did a great job catching up to the front runners, in the process almost motoring past AKZO and TTOP,  but there's a large group of people thinking that it was unfair for them to win all the points after a fair amount of luck in the last tiny % of the race.  In this regard, and in terms of scoring, the finish would not be too different from the in-port and it would add another dimension to the race.

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6 minutes ago, DLT said:

That's a great suggestion to balance the need to have the boats finish close to spectators and be fair with whoever did the best job offshore. I mean, MAP did a great job catching up to the front runners, in the process almost motoring past AKZO and TTOP,  but there's a large group of people thinking that it was unfair for them to win all the points after a fair amount of luck in the last tiny % of the race.  In this regard, and in terms of scoring, the finish would not be too different from the in-port and it would add another dimension to the race.

The fastest boat won, no?

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5 hours ago, stief said:

Justin Ferris wonders about the speed of mode changes, and how such a little detail can make such a difference.

Interesting how Justin said after they went out the backdoor they then did some mode experimentation. That is a healthy sign.

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26 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Fair enough. The good news is ignoring the #1 troll seemed to pay off, there was relatively little BS last night when we were all freaking out! :)

Having said that, it was frustrating to watch the boats doing donuts for 3 hours within spitting distance of the finish, but at the same time - much as I was hoping for a Brunel victory - the results (to me) did kind of reflect what was happening for most of the leg in the following way:

Mapfre was fast, relentless in their claw back from their early fall off the back of the bus/technical issues, perfectly strategised in their final approach between chasing BRU and finishing ahead of DF, and capitalized on a momentary opportunity at the end. That was a Spithill worthy comeback!

Brunel sailed a tactically perfect race except for a minor hiccup approaching the exclusion zone where they got too far west, and the last 200 meters before the finish, but - and it's a big 'but' - they often seemed off the pace a bit, especially with regards to DF when they were in similar conditions/sailing angles. 

Vestas was never completely out of the hunt, and had some serious game at the end - they soaked nearly that entire leg after the exclusion zone while the leading boats were already beginning to explore donut mode with that jibing frenzy. Probably just some local pressure filling in, but looked wild on the tracker and was key to their final placing.

DF was super fast - always posting great numbers, also relentless, but made a number of questionable decisions which sometimes paid off, but in the end cost them. I almost feel like they had 'good' luck before the 'bad' luck - their best tactical move was getting east of BRU before the exclusion zone. It also seemed like they got frustrated at the end instead of finding the zen-like focus necessary to win in those kind of conditions, but that's just a guess.

TTOP was a little off the pace throughout, took a gamble at the end that had potential but in the end was trapped by the black hole off Pt Judith as one of the local posters predicted.

As for Scalawag, my daughter and I just love em, win lose or draw. They are the underdog, they have already pulled a bunny out of the hat with a leg win, they have faced tragedy...but they finished where they should have.

There is also a team called Akzo and the bit in bold is nonsense.

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6 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

The fastest boat won, no?

Ultimately the rules for any competition are concocted to suit a purpose/philosophy and are there for consenting adults to accept.

Up to VOR, I don’t mind either way.....

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9 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Still love the psychedelic etch-a-sketch that was the finish. Someone was going to make a tee-shirt?

 

There was a lot more going on than the 3D tracker shows.  It appears to kind of smooth out a lot of the tracks, so some key details are missing... specially if you zoom in on the last section.  The 2D tracker on the other hand, appears to have more detail, but you can't zoom in enough to see it!

So VOR has done a great job to give us close racing and to improve the tracker (not least make it live) so it is the goto source for watching the race again (unlike last edition). But if only they'd change it to give a few more levels of zoom, so we could actually see that close racing.   Too often we have 2 or 3 boats superimposed so you cannot see exactly what is happening.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

There is also a team called Akzo and the bit in bold is nonsense.

Good point - I blame the excessive beer drinking. Re the part in bold, I defer to your knowledge - that was just an observation from watching the numbers live where DF always seemed to have the same or better speed in less pressure, but I didn't fully parse the data.

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6 hours ago, Wess said:

Plus 1.  Life at the extreme... of light air lotteries and drift-fests.  Too much of this is about luck.

 

3 hours ago, southerncross said:

Gawd.  Are we really going down this rabbit hole?  Discussion, shit fight, insults, trolls.  Ah, what the hell.  The Leg is over.

Finishing inshore is like diverting race cars off the track after 500 laps to finish in a parking lot hoping they don't run over a nail or hit a shopping cart.

I would finish it on the ocean as close to the harbour entrance as possible - like a Vendee.  All the Leg finishes are different.  There's not always an exclusion zone at the finish. 

Anyway, it is what it is and most of the crew and skippers, although very disappointed with the upsets, are resolved to chalk it off as Yacht Racing.

 

I agree with above.... that finish / lottery was fucked.... and I even (for the first time ever) agree with Brian Handoncock on the a possible scenario that it could have been finished offshore to avoid this.... there is no easy answer but all I know is it shouldn't be up to dumb luck..... and it clearly was. The coloured lines prove my point and just rewind the tracker........................................ just my 2 bob

AND... Finish the Hobart at the Iron Pot....    flame suit on...  GO

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6 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

I agree with above.... that finish / lottery was fucked.... and I even (for the first time ever) agree with Brian Handoncock on the a possible scenario that it could have been finished offshore to avoid this.... there is no easy answer but all I know is it shouldn't be up to dumb luck..... and it clearly was... just my opinion.

AND... Finish the Hobart at the Iron Pot....    flame suit on...  GO

I know PIL.  I read Handoncock's piece then took a smell of my coffee to see if I had spilled a hallucinatory into it by accident.  

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