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9 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

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I saw this in another thread and thought i would repost it here. What a briliant idea.

How could this possibly be a good idea?  

 The two main benefits of using as Oppy for sail training are that it's a one design and that the rig can be adjusted to suit a wide range of sailor weights and conditions. 

 There are any number of alternatives already available and good reasons why they haven't replaced the Oppy (yet).  Maybe it'd be helpful to suggest why it's better than a Tera, Sabot, Topper, Bug, Pico, P-Class, O'Pen Bic, Hartley-10, Byte...

Cheers, 

               W.

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I think it is a pretty good idea. The concept is similar to the trend of all singlehanders having three different rigs. And if a sailing school can effectively add a second boat for $1500 that is not a bad thing.

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Hard to run up against the OPTI INTL ASSOC ( I don't know what it is formally named ). They control hundreds of thousands of Opti sailors. My guess is that they will NOT allow changes to the most popular little boat ever built for kids. They will cling to this established design and accept the limitations. All my kids loved the Opti just as it is.

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so...... another boat that will swamp? And, in other words, is likely still too slow for an autobailer - due to physics of a light sailor and a short hull.

 

The opti is what it is - a tool to train kids how to sail. The boat isn't the problem, the environments usually are. Those that think the boat is boring, need to race. Those that don't, will be happy to have fun in the boat. 

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They aren't trying to change the Opti class at all. They are just using the hull and foils in the creation of another boat.

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i think the opti add-on is a neat idea. A lot of advantages for storage and transport. It will still fit in the back of a pickup truck for instance, while a laser still has to go on a trailer. As for the IODA, just start a new class for it!

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Interesting idea...I like it. Hell of a bargain for $1500...great bridge,  the kids can sail it for an extra year or two before parents have to plunk down $6000-$10000 for a performance dinghy. 

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6 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Interesting idea...I like it. Hell of a bargain for $1500...great bridge,  the kids can sail it for an extra year or two before parents have to plunk down $6000-$10000 for a performance dinghy. 

That was the way i was looking at it.

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It's for the Opti kid that wants an Open Bic. Its for the Opti Parent that due to parental pear pressure and plain stupidity won't move their kid on from Opti to Bics.

The other option would be to sell your Opti racing machine. Then take that money and upgrade to a Bic or other faster more challenging boat.

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49 minutes ago, CaptainAhab said:

It's for the Opti kid that wants an Open Bic. Its for the Opti Parent that due to parental pear pressure and plain stupidity won't move their kid on from Opti to Bics.

The other option would be to sell your Opti racing machine. Then take that money and upgrade to a Bic or other faster more challenging boat.

Unless junior's little sister was a year or two from starting Optis, and it made financial sense to keep junior entertained in the boat for an extra year until sis was old enough to take it over.  Or two kids could share the boat, younger as an Opti and older as the turbo. I see several scenarios where it makes sense, particularly at the price.

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55 minutes ago, CaptainAhab said:

It's for the Opti kid that wants an Open Bic. Its for the Opti Parent that due to parental pear pressure and plain stupidity won't move their kid on from Opti to Bics.

The other option would be to sell your Opti racing machine. Then take that money and upgrade to a Bic or other faster more challenging boat.

Sorry its not the opti parent that dosent want a Bic, I think everyone agrees they are a crap boat.

I agree that a more challenging boat is required for when kids grow out of an opti, but this is not the solution. 

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2 hours ago, dralyagmas said:

Sorry its not the opti parent that dosent want a Bic, I think everyone agrees they are a crap boat.

I agree that a more challenging boat is required for when kids grow out of an opti, but this is not the solution. 

"Everyone agrees they are a crap boat". I'm confused are you writing about a Bic, an Opti, or a ridiculous Franken Opti. 

Somehow some of the best international sailors in Oz & NZ support the Bics. Somehow the majority of my coaching friends in Hawaii, and the States think they are fantastic. They are all international level coaches/sailors and all of their kids are sailing Bics.

I guess if you only listen to yourself, then everyone agrees they are a crap boat.

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7 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

"Everyone agrees they are a crap boat". I'm confused are you writing about a Bic, an Opti, or a ridiculous Franken Opti. 

Somehow some of the best international sailors in Oz & NZ support the Bics. Somehow the majority of my coaching friends in Hawaii, and the States think they are fantastic. They are all international level coaches/sailors and all of their kids are sailing Bics.

I guess if you only listen to yourself, then everyone agrees they are a crap boat.

 Can you tell us more about how Bics are used in Oz, please?  Here in the UK many sailors start in Oppies, or Toppers, if a bit older, then move onto Radials, 420s and 29ers (sometimes via 4.7s or Fevas). There are a few places that have Teras, too, though they don't have the same class/RYA/International support as the Oppies.

 It looks like the Bic is similar to a Tera- can be sailed by smallish kids but wetter (ie colder!) and less adjustable than an Oppy... More fun for the sailor growing out of an Oppy but not yet big enough for the "youth" boats above. In the UK, a number of girls do well in the Topper class- I have a theory that it suits those that start to mature early (ie early teens)... would that apply to Bics, too, or are they better suited to the smaller kids?

Thanks,

              W.

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13 hours ago, RKoch said:

Interesting idea...I like it. Hell of a bargain for $1500...great bridge,  the kids can sail it for an extra year or two before parents have to plunk down $6000-$10000 for a performance dinghy. 

Thing is that's 1500 straight down the pan. What's the exchange cost for Oppie -> intermediate boat? Especially as hopefully you end up with something designed for the job, not a half ass cobbled together lashup.

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1 hour ago, WGWarburton said:

 Can you tell us more about how Bics are used in Oz, please?  Here in the UK many sailors start in Oppies, or Toppers, if a bit older, then move onto Radials, 420s and 29ers (sometimes via 4.7s or Fevas). There are a few places that have Teras, too, though they don't have the same class/RYA/International support as the Oppies.

 It looks like the Bic is similar to a Tera- can be sailed by smallish kids but wetter (ie colder!) and less adjustable than an Oppy... More fun for the sailor growing out of an Oppy but not yet big enough for the "youth" boats above. In the UK, a number of girls do well in the Topper class- I have a theory that it suits those that start to mature early (ie early teens)... would that apply to Bics, too, or are they better suited to the smaller kids?

Thanks,

              W.

Small point but the Tera has been a RYA junior class since 2010 and the tera sport (larger rig) was adopted this year. And whilst they don't have the same support internationally or nationally yet, its worth noting that teras and feva are the only junior class which have grown nationals attendance in the last five years (probably at the expense of mirrors and cadets as much as oppys and toppers). 

From what I've seen the Bic, Tera and Oppy are all direct competitors in terms of sailor size. The Tera isn't really for kids growing out of the oppy, that's more likely to be a tera sport, topper, 4.7, or paired with a smaller kid in a feva or with a bigger kid in 420. 

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Small point but the Tera has been a RYA junior class since 2010 and the tera sport (larger rig) was adopted this year. And whilst they don't have the same support internationally or nationally yet, its worth noting that teras and feva are the only junior class which have grown nationals attendance in the last five years (probably at the expense of mirrors and cadets as much as oppys and toppers). 

From what I've seen the Bic, Tera and Oppy are all direct competitors in terms of sailor size. The Tera isn't really for kids growing out of the oppy, that's more likely to be a tera sport, topper, 4.7, or paired with a smaller kid in a feva or with a bigger kid in 420. 

Hmm.. It was recognised then but the categories have changed. The Sport has been re-listed as a pathway class this year (http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/-rs-tera-sport-becomes-british-youth-sailing-recognised-class-.aspx) but there's no RYA Squad... The bigger rig is the Pro (Sport is smaller and Dacron)

 I didn't mean to imply that the Tera was a step up from an Oppy, just that it was a different starting point; IMHO, more suitable for slightly bigger kids in warmer waters than mine(!). I'm wondering if the Bic, particularly as used in Oz, is similar to the Oppy/Tera or more like a Topper/Tera-Pro. The 4.7 is a bit big as a beginner boat, though could be a good choice as a first purchase for an older kid that's learned the basics in something lighter. I get the impression the same's true of the Splash and Byte-CII... From what you say the Bic is more akin to the Oppy/Tera, in which case I wonder if there's another stepping stone for Aussie kids on the way to Radials...?

Cheers,

             W.

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I don't think the idea is to replace or threaten the Tera, Sabot, Topper, Bug, Pico, P-Class, O'Pen Bic, Hartley-10, Byte, 4.7, Splash or Feva. It is just a way to add some functionality and fun to a very popular little boat. I also don't think it is a "half ass cobbled together lashup",  given the creds of Matt Mason.  

And if people are willing to part with AUS$5,000 to put a foil on a Laser or Aero, $1,500 to buy my kid some additional fun with his/her Opti isn't that crazy.

What these kids should really be doing  when they are "between boats" is crewing for their Mom or Dad...

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8 hours ago, JimC said:

Thing is that's 1500 straight down the pan. What's the exchange cost for Oppie -> intermediate boat? Especially as hopefully you end up with something designed for the job, not a half ass cobbled together lashup.

The $1500 is merely a bridge, to stall off spending $6500 on a radial for a year or so. The turbo setup could then be passed to a younger child in the family, or sold. So it's not a matter of pissing away $1500.  It's also a means for 2 kids, one older and one younger, to get enjoyment from one boat. That might be attractive to families on a tight budget. Remains to be seen if it becomes popular, but I think it's a clever and viable concept that has merit.

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Modular upgrades can be really good, but in most junior fleets there is a really good second hand market due to naturally high turnover of sailors. Point being you don't lose much cash by just selling up when they grow out of X and move to Y. If you have two kids, then you're going to need two boats anyway if they are both racing.  

I can see with an aero / laser, as an adult you are planning on keeping a boat for 5+ years, so having other rig options so other family members can have a go is good value.  Also being able to pair it with another rig widens your market when the time comes to sell. 

Same goes for beach boats, where the whole family shares one boat, multiple rigs, or even a modular hull could be good... but there are far better and cheaper options for a beach boat than a modular oppy. 

 

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