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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
random

How “wet” the Volvo Ocean 65 yachts are?

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10 hours ago, mad said:

That’s not a mental image I needed. 

Sorry to write this Mad but.....

 

RamBum has been participating in some more self gratification with his favourite sock.

 

rambum.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Do you have to prove you've never sailed off shore? 

Everybody knows that ocean racers take their sails down at night (technically "nautical twilight") and anchor until dawn.  Its in the rules.

Thanks for playing. Idiot.

Address the lack of visibility at night, address the lack of active steering by autopilot on imoca 60's and its effect on speed.

Otherwise,  stay behind your computer and keep looking at goat porn.

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5 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Sorry to write this Mad but.....

 

RamBum has been participating in some more self gratification with his favourite sock.

 

rambum.jpeg

Makes no difference to me, he can do as he likes, I don’t see it anyway unless he’s quoted. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Makes no difference to me, he can do as he likes, I don’t see it anyway unless he’s quoted. 

Ok, I thought you would be troubled again by the mental image of Rambum having another session of self gratification ;)

  

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31 minutes ago, hoppy said:

If it wasn't for the 9000+ posts I would have thought he was Rambum's twin or his sock....

There's 8+ pages about your ability to make a decision. I'm not surprised you're confused.....

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24 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

 keep looking at goat porn.

Image result for goat porn

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1 minute ago, mad said:

She’s going to make Random very jealous doing that. 

I googled 'goat porn' to find that image. Good god! The interwebs are an odd place...

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3 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I googled 'goat porn' to find that image. Good god! The interwebs are an odd place...

Remind me never to let you near any of my laptops etc!! 

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1 hour ago, ease the sheet said:

Thanks for playing. Idiot.

Address the lack of visibility at night, address the lack of active steering by autopilot on imoca 60's and its effect on speed.

Otherwise,  stay behind your computer and keep looking at goat porn.

 

1 hour ago, ease the sheet said:

Address the points brought up in the post.

I doubt anyone could be bothered but seeing it is "be kind to someone today" day here I will bite, no doubt to regret it.

Starting with a O60 being one-third lighter and having a off-the-wind specific hull and appendage form, the speed difference in downhill heavy between it and a VO65 having greater water line length is fuck all. The VO65 with sail plan and being hand driven will go deeper.

However a driven VO65 achieves average and top speeds way higher than a O60 on AP. At night that differential drops as a driven boat is not as quick at night whereas the  O60 with AP is no different than if Stevie Wonder was driving.

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23 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

I doubt anyone could be bothered but seeing it is "be kind to someone today" day here I will indulge.

Starting with a O60 being one-third lighter and having a off-the-wind specific hull form the speed difference between it and a VO65 having greater water line length is fuck all. The VO65 with sail plan and being driven will go deeper.

However a driven VO65 achieves average and top speeds way higher than a O60 on AP. At night that differential drops as a driven boat is not as quick at night whereas the AP is no different than if Stevie Wonder was driving.

And, in the spirit of "kindness to the inexperienced/uniformed/clueless day", I will add that there is plenty of light on the ocean at night to see to steer.  First of all, there's the moon half the time and the stars do shine.  Second there is the dramatic difference between white foamy water and dark water and the sky.  Third is the heel angle of the boat relative to the sky and the horizon.  

And on those really dark, cloudy nights, where you have no stars, no horizon and it's so pitch black you can't really tell if anyone is in the cockpit - then you are just playing a video game trying to keep four red numbers on the instruments within their parameters.  Which I can do for about 1/2 an hour before the afterimages start blurring the data.  Driving can be like going through a tunnel at 60 mph with your lights off where you are just trying not to hit the side and scratch the paint.

There was one really hard couple of nights on a Transpac where there was no moon, thick clouds so no stars, nothing.  The Jupiter - only Jupiter - shone through a hole in the clouds and actually cast a shadow of my hand on the deck.  That was a bitch.

Now, you may notice that they have shifted Transpac to match up with the full moon.  Sailing down the moon river.

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I knew that was going to be a waste of time, though the flip flop on your views on driving by sight was interesting. And as you were rude my guess is you are the one Randumb is arse fingering.

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10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I knew that was going to be a waste of time, though the flip flop on your views on driving by sight was interesting. And as you were rude my guess is you are the one Randumb is arse fingering.

Uhmmm...sorry, but I was directing my comments to Ease the Sheets who seems to never have been sailing at night, not you, whom I agree completely with.  I got the quoting wrong.  

My arse is quite unsullied by any random individuals, thanks.

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Uhmmm...sorry, but I was directing my comments to Ease the Sheets

No worries, my bad also for not picking up your misquote.

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3 hours ago, ease the sheet said:

There's 8+ pages about your ability to make a decision. I'm not surprised you're confused.....

Why make a decision in less than 8 pages when I still haven't sold my boat. The market place is moving slowly whilst my boat hasn't

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

 And as you were rude my guess is you are the one Randumb is arse fingering.

It's probably a case of mutual arse fingering...

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Wow, just fuking wow.

 

So driving at night, in typical southern ocean gale stormy conditions is like driving through a tunnel at 60 with your lights off.  Exactly. We agree.

 

So imoca 60's are faster at night when visibility drops off. Exactly.  we agree.

Forget about  arse fingering, you guys seem perfectly comfortable with the whole hand.

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

I knew that was going to be a waste of time, though the flip flop on your views on driving by sight was interesting. And as you were rude my guess is you are the one Randumb is arse fingering.

Thats just doubling down.....

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14 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

...you guys seem perfectly comfortable with the whole hand.

10 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Thats just doubling down.....

Clearly you aren't playing with a full deck...and getting mixed up with "reach around".

1523848589208175988223.jpg

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Your personal collection of selfies really doesn't cut the mustard. Is that you with the big ears? I expected you to be an old fat man with a silvery beard.

 

You go on about the importance of visibility, and use that as an argument against more crew protection yet you admit that periods of low to no visibility exist...

 

 

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56 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Wow, just fuking wow.

 

So driving at night, in typical southern ocean gale stormy conditions is like driving through a tunnel at 60 with your lights off.  Exactly. We agree.

 

So imoca 60's are faster at night when visibility drops off. Exactly.  we agree.

Forget about  arse fingering, you guys seem perfectly comfortable with the whole hand.

 

Somewhat.  On a very dark night it can get like that and you back off.  On a moon lit night, you can push it harder.

and

No, the speed differential is less between the day time comparisons and the nighttime comparisons.  In both cases the VO65 is faster due to human drivers who can see what they are doing, but with a reduced advantage at night.

In neither case have you made your point, which was something inane about using a single-handed auto-pilot boat as a reference for how a fully-crewed race should be run.  

You've never driven a fast (20+ knots) monohull on the ocean, have you.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

It's probably a case of mutual arse fingering...

Fuck I love this place.

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51 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

You go on about the importance of visibility, and use that as an argument against more crew protection yet you admit that periods of low to no visibility exist...

And you go on about the lack of importance to visability using periods of impeded visability at night as your sole argument that visability is not important, despite reading evidence here that crews consider it more important than protection, to the extent of insisting protection is removed.

Have you ever contemplated the concept that during periods of low visability things change, like sail plan, TWA's,  driving styles, expertise of those given the task etc? 

Let me guess ..you drive around with a tarpaulin over your car just in case this was to happen??

unnamed (28).gif

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40 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Your personal collection of selfies really doesn't cut the mustard. Is that you with the big ears? I expected you to be an old fat man with a silvery beard.

 

You go on about the importance of visibility, and use that as an argument against more crew protection yet you admit that periods of low to no visibility exist...

 

 

I think they should have headlights or better still, the race organisers should build stadium lights across all of the race course. 

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Excess visibility at the expense of participant safety in a workplace is the wrong direction to be heading.

F1 have foistered halo devices on the drivers against the drivers wishes. Why?

Listening to the people who want to go fast and win is fine, but making sure people make it back home in one piece is better.

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

unnamed (28).gif

:lol::lol:
JFC - Now I have to change my clothes before I go to work.
Spilled coffee all over myself. 

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2 hours ago, ease the sheet said:

Excess visibility at the expense of participant safety in a workplace is the wrong direction to be heading.

F1 have foistered halo devices on the drivers against the drivers wishes. Why?

Listening to the people who want to go fast and win is fine, but making sure people make it back home in one piece is better.

 

So when was the last time someone died in VOR due to crew being washed of the boat due to the lack of protection? Certainly not on this edition.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

So when was the last time someone died in VOR due to crew being washed of the boat due to the lack of protection? Certainly not on this edition.

Its difficult to say what better protection could have prevented. You can't offer proof for something that doesn't exist.

 

As for the number washed over, thats a good point. Whilst the number of those that have gone over is low,  the percentage that have been recovered isn't great is it.

 

Risk vs consequence. The risk may be low, but the consequence is pretty extreme.

An injury aboard may be life threatening,  an injured person in the water requires a miracle.

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25 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

anyone here steered a 65 or similar downhill?

Anyone who has steered a planning hull downhill would manage it.  Larger boats are easier to steer, everything happens slower than skiffs or smaller hulls.

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6 hours ago, ease the sheet said:

Listening to the people who want to go fast and win is fine, but making sure people make it back home in one piece is better.

Fuck off and go home to where your experience lies.

 

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2 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

anyone here steered a 65 or similar downhill?

Maybe a dozen or more below/above 45 lat..who fuckin counts or cares..this is SA? Trolls certainly don't.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck your replies make Randumb sound bright.

You've never skippered a boat, have you? Never had to do risk management for a race?

 

All you have is a computer and dreams.

Pathetic little man 

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18 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

You've never skippered a boat, have you? Never had to do risk management for a race?

 

All you have is a computer and dreams.

Pathetic little man 

Yep...You got me...closest I ever got to the ocean was putting bath salts in by mistake and risk management was all about making sure I didn't wake up in a trailer park with a condom hanging out of my arse.

Your very rude.. but such a wise and experienced man. I'm in awe.

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yep...You got me...closest I ever got to the ocean was putting bath salts in by mistake and risk management was all about making sure I didn't wake up in a trailer park. didn't wake up in an ice bath with a strange wound where my kidney should be

Your rude but so wise.

FIFY JS :)

 

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13 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

and risk management was all about making sure I didn't wake up in a trailer park. didn't wake up in an ice bath with a strange wound where my kidney should be

Very funny Dark...but it fuckin wasn't at the time. You cunt..I had forgotten about that. 

If you now tell me "Ease My Tampon Out" got one of my kidneys ..well I will be fuckin depressed.

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34 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Be grateful you're not floating around the southern ocean.......

Ohh dear you cunts like Randumb that prosecute your desktop and useless views about this subject and when you can't back them up with either experience or knowledge, so you trolling cunts then go for the Fish death in SO byline.

Shame on you you fuckin useless pathetic weasel. Someone should really track you down and sodomise you with something close at hand...

...like a very dry lawn mower or any garden implement that requires two hands to operate.

Go fuck yourself....and if you don't feel inclined anyone that has anything to do with the VOR, TeamScally etc will gladly help you pull that lawnmower out of the shed.

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10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Ohh dear you cunts like Randumb that prosecute your desktop and useless views about this subject and when you can't back them up with either experience or knowledge, you trolling cunts then go for the Fish death in SO byline.

Shame on you you fuckin useless pathetic weasel. Someone should really track you down and sodomise you with something close at hand...

...like a very dry lawn mower or any garden implement that requires two hands to operate.

Go fuck yourself.

Run out of gay pics have you?

 

Maybe you could write a letter?

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47 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Run out of gay pics have you?

I'm sure he can get more by hacking your phone.

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13 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Is not selling your boat getting you down?

Chin up, your next post might be funny. .....

Why would it, I can still go sailing. Do you know what that is? 

 

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1 hour ago, ease the sheet said:

Really? You actually do have nothing, do you champ?

Actually not anymore ..I will pass you over to others to bounce you around you maggot. Out.

Hint. Read your Troll Book..the chapter about you are now a balloon  that everyone just passes you around for fun waiting for you to bust.

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35 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Actually not anymore ..I will pass you over to others to bounce you around you maggot. Out.

Hint. Read your Troll Book..the chapter about you are now a balloon  that everyone just passes you around for fun waiting for you to bust.

No substantive argument. Character  attacks.

Why do the 65's have to be so wet?

You got nothing.

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How fitting that a thread started by Random for shit stirring purposes disappears down the sewer :)

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14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

I doubt anyone could be bothered but seeing it is "be kind to someone today" day here I will bite, no doubt to regret it.

Starting with a O60 being one-third lighter and having a off-the-wind specific hull and appendage form, the speed difference in downhill heavy between it and a VO65 having greater water line length is fuck all. The VO65 with sail plan and being hand driven will go deeper.

However a driven VO65 achieves average and top speeds way higher than a O60 on AP. At night that differential drops as a driven boat is not as quick at night whereas the  O60 with AP is no different than if Stevie Wonder was driving.

Nicely put Jack.

I have to admit that I thought this thread was getting boring and going nowhere but some of the comments simply shout "I don't know what the fuck I am talking about".

Why does a race boat have to be so wet? I think it has something to do with speed but perhaps I am wrong.

A fucking Royal Navy frigate is wet if you throw it at a sea fast enough, the bow of the Leander Class could throw so much water in the air that solid green would hit the bridge windows and they were considered one of the most seaworthy warships ever or even a Channel ferry hitting a big sea - the spray disappears over the stern. Mate! Go fast into big seas and you are going to get wet- end of story.

And there is often light at sea at night, moon, stars, bioluminescence, it is incredible how much the human eye can detect once the rods have got used to the low light and just like a blind person can hear things that other people can't, it can be surprising how the acuity of the other senses increases when sight is dimmed (and how quickly) and some people are better at it than others just as with all things.

SS

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56 minutes ago, mad said:

How fitting that a thread started by Random for shit stirring purposes disappears down the sewer :)

You are so right Mad and seeing post #244 from one of the Trolls Club especially given the - still recent - events on Leg 7 down the sewer in a particularly distasteful manner.

I bet he is the sort of person that doesn't switch off his cell phone at a funeral.

SS

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9 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

anyone here steered a 65 or similar downhill?

Just saw this and the answer is...Yep. 

Took me a bit down memory lane to add it up.  Seems to add up to about ten thousand ocean miles or so of helm time on planing, biggish monos 50'-70'.  More than I thought.  About 50% of it at night. (It just works out that way doesn't it.)  100% of that time without "protection", probably 95% of that time looking forward to find the next low spot.

(Or about 50 times the length of the west coast of Tasmania for that matter.  )

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Interesting thread if you ignore the complaints from Randum and Sheet about getting your hair wet offshore and having to apply conditioner prior to your man grabbing your hair from behind. Both their mums are proud they created this thread, but embarrassed that their sons are such pathetic cunts that hair products are their reason for living (apart from any form if spunk in the face)

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42 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Just saw this and the answer is...Yep. 

Took me a bit down memory lane to add it up.  Seems to add up to about ten thousand ocean miles or so of helm time on planing, biggish monos 50'-70'.  More than I thought.  About 50% of it at night. (It just works out that way doesn't it.)  100% of that time without "protection", probably 95% of that time looking forward to find the next low spot.

(Or about 50 times the length of the west coast of Tasmania for that matter.  )

Good to hear and it makes sense, I've never steered a 65 foot anything so I cant comment from big boat experience. What I do know is that when racing, anything that restricts the view forward is a major pain and when going solo (racing), I havent got enough protection but when crewed there's too much! 

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46 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Interesting thread if you ignore the complaints from Randum and Sheet about getting your hair wet offshore and having to apply conditioner prior to your man grabbing your hair from behind. Both their mums are proud they created this thread, but embarrassed that their sons are such pathetic cunts that hair products are their reason for living (apart from any form if spunk in the face)

 

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57 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Interesting thread if you ignore the complaints from Randum and Sheet about getting your hair wet offshore and having to apply conditioner prior to your man grabbing your hair from behind. Both their mums are proud they created this thread, but embarrassed that their sons are such pathetic cunts that hair products are their reason for living (apart from any form if spunk in the face)

I removed Random from my reading list a long time ago due to excessive pollution, Sheet will be heading the same way. 

It makes for far more interesting conversation. 

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6 hours ago, ease the sheet said:

Dreamer.....

Of course I’m a dreamer..... I dream of a faster boat for club racing. I dream of a boat that will be more competitive in a wider range of conditions. I dream of ocean racing.

In the mean time I race my yacht in club races and when the mood takes me, I race short handed with my dog. 

Even when I eventually get my racer, I’ll probably remain a dreamer.

I’m happy to always be a dreamer. 

Are you happy to always be a cunt?

 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

I removed Random from my reading list a long time ago due to excessive pollution, Sheet will be heading the same way. 

It makes for far more interesting conversation a circle jerk.

FIFY

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Relax mate. The chances of you being washed over the side of a V65 are exactly the same as you ever getting invited to sail on one.

Zero.

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SS is correct. it's the speed. if the sailors wanted protection they could have had it. ive driven a 56ft brick in 30+ doing 20+ reaching with a full main and #2, and it's fucking wet w/o reverse sheer. reverse sheer has to make it worse , but then again these guys are doing 30+ , and no matter how you flip it , waves are washing over the deck. sounds like the ACTUAL sailors are fine with it , just don't love it , but will gladly trade it for the speed. most likely a combination of speed , bow sheer, and wind angle for the Asym boats. i wonder how wet they would be sailing deeper and slower ?

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Relax mate. The chances of you being washed over the side of a V65 are exactly the same as you ever getting invited to sail on one.

Zero.

Maybe...but he could be usefull.

RWP_208_web.jpg

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I've done a bit of time driving in 30+ (max 60 knots) WS. Off Point Conception has gotten pretty interesting a few times. Pushed a SC50 to 27+ knots BS several times. Lots of big fast boats. One was a Spencer 72 that was the next evolution of Rag Time with a big old hard dodger that would seat 8 protected. The helm was aft by about 15 feet. Just enough room to see. But, your still in the elements. If the rules say no autopilot and you want to go as fast as possible, you are going to have a helm that is exposed.

 It's  racing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

I've done a bit of time driving in 30+ (max 60 knots) WS. Off Point Conception has gotten pretty interesting a few times. Pushed a SC50 to 27+ knots BS several times. Lots of big fast boats. One was a Spencer 72 that was the next evolution of Rag Time with a big old hard dodger that would seat 8 protected. The helm was aft by about 15 feet. Just enough room to see. But, your still in the elements. If the rules say no autopilot and you want to go as fast as possible, you are going to have a helm that is exposed.

 It's  racing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

27k in a SC50 has got to be scary.

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On 16/04/2018 at 8:24 AM, mad said:

That could also be Port Philip Sailor, something strange happening in OZ, or is it just the onset of winter?

Yes it always blows 50 knots now in Victoria.

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14 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

One was a Spencer 72 that was the next evolution of Rag Time with a big old hard dodger that would seat 8 protected.

You got a photo of the deck on that boat.  Can't seem to find one.  Thanks.

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It was all good...until it went very very bad. But, we got her running back off, tack down, another crossing wave allowed me to jibe her back and we were off and going again without breaking anything or hurting anyone. Ended up winning our class. Elvis will never let me live that one down.

 

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Just now, southerncross said:

You got a photo of the deck on that boat.  Can't seem to find one.  Thanks.

Sorry, I delivered that boat (Buccaneer) back in 87' when the original crew left her in Easter Island. As I recall it lived up here for a few years. The buyer I did the delivery for had removed the dodger. Ultimately, it went somewhere in South America. 

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There was only one. So, I'm sure it was. The picture isn't the best. But, from what I can see, that is her. She had grey topsides when I sailed her.

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1 minute ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

There was only one. So, I'm sure it was. The picture isn't the best. But, from what I can see, that is her. She had grey topsides when I sailed her.

Can't find any other photos. Interesting boat though as New Zealand designers do. 

  

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The reason Infidel became Rag Time is the RNZYS would not allow Infidel in the big offshore events. Rags has a much lower freeboard and is built of two layers of 3/8" Marui Plywood. Buccaneer was much bigger with 2 layers of 3/4" Marui marine plywood. 

It would take a lot to have modernized Buccaneer to the standard Rag Time was when I first sailed her. But, for sailing from Easter Island to the Galapagos and on to Mexico in the middle of hurricane season...she was a pretty nice ride.

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