Presuming Ed

Rad new Ran Fast40 for Niklas Zennstrom

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Wow, Nipze and Jason have blown it out of the water with this one.

Can't wait to see it on the water, rest of the fleet are going to shit a brick!

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I think the guys at Carkeek caught a glimpse of the new Botin Fast40, then said "hold my beer and watch this"

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1 hour ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

Wow, Nipze and Jason have blown it out of the water with this one.

Can't wait to see it on the water, rest of the fleet are going to shit a brick!

Way out designs like this are usually either weapons or barkers, no in between, be interesting to watch where it lands.

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16 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Way out designs like this are usually either weapons or barkers, no in between, be interesting to watch where it lands.

True dat Gorn, but cool to see a fresh look at the Fast 40.

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Would be interesting to know bare hull& deck weight compared to the other boats. Not that we ever will, of course.

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Is it just my glasses or is that seriously ugly?

I know fast is pretty,  so maybe it's a bit early for that question.

 

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Wipe the grease off those specs and see the loooonngg waterline and seriously wiiiiidddddeee transom!

Black Beauty!!

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2 hours ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

yandy198455.jpg

yandy198457.jpg

Photos from Louay Habib/Yachts and Yachting.

Looks to me like if it stuffs the bow into a wave, that curved chine is going to act like a set of forward dive planes on a submarine and drive the bow down???

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I think there's probably enough buoyancy in the bow to prevent that, but yea. 

All in the name of structural optimization to save weight. It's actually a marvel. 

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around the cans you also have to go upwind.......that full length chine will act like an old cca  long keel  and add drag but it sure as hell will keep it in a straight line... a tack will be fun to watch......in golf its called a snap hook...........

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seems that they just changed the part of the boat that is out of the water, made the deck narrower and moved the crew righting moment inboard. and it will be very uncomfortable for the crew. hope they don't have to steer when the bow is going under a wave.

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is there going to be some sort of non skid on the sides of the boat?

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3 hours ago, Crash said:

Looks to me like if it stuffs the bow into a wave, that curved chine is going to act like a set of forward dive planes on a submarine and drive the bow down???

It is upside down. What you think is a sprit is a bulb. 

Or... is it on its side?

In any case, it is radical!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but I am curious to see "it" sail.

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2 hours ago, Overbored said:

seems that they just changed the part of the boat that is out of the water, made the deck narrower and moved the crew righting moment inboard. and it will be very uncomfortable for the crew. hope they don't have to steer when the bow is going under a wave.

I'd bet that aft in the cockpit the lifelines (and the crew) will be able to get out to max beam. I don't think any of these boats would sacrifice righting moment to that degree.

Then again, I could be wrong. 

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Front page feature on this mentions " side-deck hiking benches" so i suspect that's the answer to the RM conundrum. Can't wait to see what that looks like. I'm picturing Italian lake racer on steroids.

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6 hours ago, Overbored said:

seems that they just changed the part of the boat that is out of the water, made the deck narrower and moved the crew righting moment inboard. and it will be very uncomfortable for the crew. hope they don't have to steer when the bow is going under a wave.

 

I agree about going under a wave it's going to come straight up that panel and attempt to wipe every one off the rail.

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4 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

It is upside down. What you think is a sprit is a bulb. 

Or... is it on its side?

In any case, it is radical!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but I am curious to see "it" sail.

If it's fast, then it's beautiful. - Slow then ugly.

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8 hours ago, jackolantern said:

I think there's probably enough buoyancy in the bow to prevent that, but yea. 

All in the name of structural optimization to save weight. It's actually a marvel. 

I believe I've read elsewhere that the narrow deck up front is for aerodynamic benefits for the jib, something like 5% increase in how much wind the jib sees.

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Nothing special about this boat Radio Controlled boats havine been using the full length chine and similar bow shapes for years

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

I believe I've read elsewhere that the narrow deck up front is ALSO for aerodynamic benefits for the jib, something like 5% increase in how much wind the jib sees. AND LESS HULL WINDAGE AS WELL, ESPECIALLY HEELED. ALSO LESS WAVE CONTACT ON TOPSIDES AND SPRAY GOING MORE TO LEEWARD THAN GOING STRAIGHT BACK.

FIFY.... Only 5%?

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I like the looks a lot more than the Botin.  Just opinion.

 

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the front half is pure hydro and aero business.

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

 

I agree about going under a wave it's going to come straight up that panel and attempt to wipe every one off the rail.

That's what the bowman is for.

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2 hours ago, RiptideDesign said:

The 3D rendering was in the January Seahorse, not sure why no one noticed then.

29634076_10212285530752940_1550287848_o.jpg

Because nobody on SA is able to overcome their cheapness for a relatively spendy annual subscription

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So the cambered bow shape creates 'upwash' effect increasing apparent flow across the jib, the forward chine not only deflects spray outboard but reduces deck volume (weight, righting moment) and the chine disappears aft so that the crew can hike normally ?  Is that what all this bizarre shaping is about ?  I do like the aggressively reversed bow.   

Those  little antennae bow pulpit rails are cool.   The whole kit looks expensive !  What's it weigh, compared to say, a modern Fast 40+ or GP42, or other carbon 40'ers ?

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44 minutes ago, 1sailor said:

So the cambered bow shape creates 'upwash' effect increasing apparent flow across the jib, the forward chine not only deflects spray outboard but reduces deck volume (weight, righting moment) and the chine disappears aft so that the crew can hike normally ?  Is that what all this bizarre shaping is about ?  I do like the aggressively reversed bow.   

Those  little antennae bow pulpit rails are cool.   The whole kit looks expensive !  What's it weigh, compared to say, a modern Fast 40+ or GP42, or other carbon 40'ers ?

The weight saving won’t necessarily show in the overall displacement figures because it was probably put into the bulb at the bottom of the keel.....

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wow.....  looks familiar with CQS  !!    perhaps Brett Bakewell-White is on the right track after all.... B):wacko:

 

CQS-laying-over-on-Sydney-Harbour-–-ROLEX-Kurt-Arrigo.jpg

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2 minutes ago, xsailmakerSYD said:

wow.....  looks familiar with CQS  !!    perhaps Brett Bakewell-White is on the right track after all.... B):wacko:

 

CQS-laying-over-on-Sydney-Harbour-–-ROLEX-Kurt-Arrigo.jpg

Yeah the one and only design feature of that boat that makes sense...

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3 hours ago, 1sailor said:

So the cambered bow shape creates 'upwash' effect increasing apparent flow across the jib, the forward chine not only deflects spray outboard but reduces deck volume (weight, righting moment) and the chine disappears aft so that the crew can hike normally ?  Is that what all this bizarre shaping is about ?  I do like the aggressively reversed bow.   

Those  little antennae bow pulpit rails are cool.   The whole kit looks expensive !  What's it weigh, compared to say, a modern Fast 40+ or GP42, or other carbon 40'ers ?

Look at the bow of the new Cannonball. 90 degree angles take a lot of structural weight to support, spread that out on a round or angular bow and you can support more angles with the same strength at less weight. 

 

Same reason as the bow thats angled aft halfway up the stem. When the mast is up you'll see that the angle of the bow closely matches the angle of the headstay. You don't have to build in the carbon up there to distribute an angular load vector onto a 90 degree bow section. Just line up some unidirectional carbon with the headstay lodging and bobs your uncle. 

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20 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

Looks pretty radical*

(* yes, yes, fixed keel etc).E5F1923A-F449-436E-9DF0-8CC15B9681EC.thumb.jpeg.3f25cd6ae28a7e9e077f3e24c2881949.jpeg

fixed keel ?  wow, better have a good man on the mainsheet.  this baby wants to be sailed flat !

 

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Just now, agtfree1 said:

fixed keel ?  wow, better have a good man on the mainsheet.  this baby wants to be sailed flat !

 

I'm really interested to see how she goes !

 

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Image result for rhino beetles australia

take the claws off this little beauty....

yandy198457.jpg

& look at what you get...

 

 

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2 hours ago, Philc said:

Ok what does it rate ?????

Probably FAST40+ upper rating limit - 1.270. 

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3 hours ago, Philc said:

Ok what does it rate ?????

Under IOR the forward girths stations would be back near the mast????

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1 hour ago, Presuming Ed said:

Probably FAST40+ upper rating limit - 1.270. 

You know it!

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I don't think it is a new design though? Just an evolution of Girls on Film...

clean-machine-4.jpg

Image result for girls on film fast 40

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It is very similar to gof, just the forward shape is a little more extreme, cockpits look very similar but i’m unsure if they’ll adopt the same aft primary winches for ran. 

Depending on result this could be the boat and team that wipes the fleet away, they have form in this, they had then TP52 back in 2008, the fleet died, they had the Farr 45 a couple of years later and sure enough people began selling up and another couple off years later the fleet died. 

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It has the planform of a much beamer boat with a lot less material.  Self righting...not so much.  I respectfully suggest it will be very stable inverted too.

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35 minutes ago, Bkeppel said:

It has the planform of a much beamer boat with a lot less material.  Self righting...not so much.  I respectfully suggest it will be very stable inverted too.

Why would it be less able to self right than a similar Fast 40+ with a conventional bow and flat deck? Seems to be that in the (very) unlikely event of it becoming inverted with the keel still attached, that it would immediately lean one way or the other due to the deck not being a flat surface and having those "hiking surfaces/chines". There is less static form stability than a conventional inverted hull/deck shape. 

Do any of these 40'ers do anything besides day races? I've heard they're really wet (as in they leak), seems like doing anything other than buoy and maybe short coastal would be a bad idea. 

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11 hours ago, Readie1 said:

I don't think it is a new design though? Just an evolution of Girls on Film...

clean-machine-4.jpg

Image result for girls on film fast 40

Here's where it began (years ago)

kl.jpg

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the way the bow and sides work towards the end bottom dish looks a bit murkinov speed dream 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzh5yg8P0E1iDXZTbTCvv

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I, for one, am all for this design evolution.

Better then the America's Cup spider boats, anyway.

 

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8 hours ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

Why would it be less able to self right than a similar Fast 40+ with a conventional bow and flat deck? Seems to be that in the (very) unlikely event of it becoming inverted with the keel still attached, that it would immediately lean one way or the other due to the deck not being a flat surface and having those "hiking surfaces/chines". There is less static form stability than a conventional inverted hull/deck shape. 

Do any of these 40'ers do anything besides day races? I've heard they're really wet (as in they leak), seems like doing anything other than buoy and maybe short coastal would be a bad idea. 

The new Team Hollywood Botin 40 just did Brisbane to Gladstone. Very wet above and below by all the accounts.

Some of the older generation Fast40s (Ker40) have done the Fastnet a couple of times.

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On 11/04/2018 at 12:05 PM, Presuming Ed said:

Would be interesting to know bare hull& deck weight compared to the other boats. Not that we ever will, of course.

Ed It’s way lighter hull and deck and structure than GoF. Maybe as much as 200 kg, Big Mod to bow but cockpit is small change from the big change we did last year when we built a wooden mock up. Moving trimmers behind helm was an idea of Cheese, Dave Lenz and myself.C6C62035-A25D-42F6-BD2C-B8F142BAABBA.thumb.jpeg.c577a05430a8324bd2a6eeaa8afdff4f.jpeg

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Thanks for the insight Morty, see Butty's got GOF almost ready to go again. Best for the season.

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17 hours ago, kawalski said:

The new Team Hollywood Botin 40 just did Brisbane to Gladstone. Very wet above and below by all the accounts.

Some of the older generation Fast40s (Ker40) have done the Fastnet a couple of times.

Thats aggressive. I feel like I read something in Seahorse about them being a wet ride below because of all the through deck line openings. I think there was a quote about this boat in one of the articles talking about the bilge pump arrangement being a crucial development since it gets used so much.

 

This class is producing some seriously cool designs. How many events do they have this year? Will it eventually rival the TP52 circuit?

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This year's calendar. http://fast40class2018.com/2018-events

2018 FAST40+ Class Programme

21-22 April FAST40+ Class Training Regatta – Solent

27-29 April FAST40+ Class Round One – Royal Southern YC

26-28 May FAST40+ Class Round Two – Poole Regatta

29 June – 01 July FAST40+ Class Round Three National Championship – Royal Thames YC

4-7 August FAST40+ Class Round Four Lendy Cowes Week

13-16 September FAST40+ Class Round Five One Ton Cup – RORC

19-21 October FAST40+ Class Round Six – Royal Southampton YC

 

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On 4/14/2018 at 2:15 AM, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

Thats aggressive. I feel like I read something in Seahorse about them being a wet ride below because of all the through deck line openings. I think there was a quote about this boat in one of the articles talking about the bilge pump arrangement being a crucial development since it gets used so much.

 

This class is producing some seriously cool designs. How many events do they have this year? Will it eventually rival the TP52 circuit?

I was told by a couple of the crew on the race that there were 2 crew below bailing all the time. She was very wet. Now in a shed to seal up the fittings and make her as waterproof as possible.

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1 minute ago, Philc said:

I was told by a couple of the crew on the race that there were 2 crew below bailing all the time. She was very wet. Now in a shed to seal up the fittings and make her as waterproof as possible.

Team Hollywood in the B2G had videos of two people bailing a not insignificant amount of water up on facebook

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Ray's speech at the B2G prize giving upon winning the Cruising division was priceless.

To anybody who doubted their merits in being entered in the cruising division he said he had spent a million dollars to have an above deck spa as well as a below deck spa.

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6 hours ago, Philc said:

I was told by a couple of the crew on the race that there were 2 crew below bailing all the time. She was very wet. Now in a shed to seal up the fittings and make her as waterproof as possible.

Spose that explains her no show at Sail Port Stephens over the weekend.

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Would love to know details of the electric motor/batteries. Capacity? Range? (Obvs enough for Hythe to Hamble, but that's not exactly far...).

Class rules. Does mean that they never have the weight of fuel onboard. Offshore Special Regs Cat 4 has no minimum fuel requirement.

Quote

B.5 Engine and Propulsion.


B5.1 The weight of the engine and saildrive shall be no less than 153Kg (dry weight) any system below this figure will be required to add weight in ballast to achieve class minimum. In a hybrid engine any extra battery capacity and generator needed will be included in the weight.  
B5.2 Speed under power with propeller in smooth water and without assistance of wind shall not be less than 1.811 * LH ^0.5 (knots) where LH is in meters (LH^0.5 where LH is in feet).  
B.52 {Sic - PE}   The propeller shall, at all times, be ready for use and shall not be retracted. Any yacht with a retractable propeller system installed on December 31st 2017 is exempt from this rule.

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Looks good on the water, hope Carkeek keep the videos coming. 

 

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Rudder looks way forward.

 she's going to be twitchy at speed,  prolly could 360 in her own length...

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While it looks cool, its still no where near as fast as a 40ft yacht could potentially be. Due to the rating limit - 1.270. For example the Elliott 35SS rates higher than this and its only 35ft. If it was a box rule rather than a rating limit then you would see some real speed.... 

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So what? Anything suffering from lead poisoning isn't going to be as fast as one of these. Fast 40+ is about the racing. Force people into a tighter box = better racing on the water.

170629_JR_GC32VILLA_5976-1000x500.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

So what? Anything suffering from lead poisoning isn't going to be as fast as one of these. Fast 40+ is about the racing. Force people into a tighter box = better racing on the water.

170629_JR_GC32VILLA_5976-1000x500.jpg

It’s still an arms race though.... and getting bigger budgets each season. How long before it becomes a 2 tier class? 

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Well, yes. Big boys' toys get big boys' rules. Playing at this level isn't for the slim of wallet. (And there is a tension between keeping some degree of limit on costs and letting owners do what they want. Best amateurs money can buy...).  It's all orders of magnitude ^ orders of magnitude out of my league. But that's fine.. I just find the boats interesting. (E.g. I wonder if they've gone for an off the peg aluminium saildrive or built something uber-gucci out of unobtanium and carbon for this boat.)

But fixed keel boats are a lot more popular than canting keels and foiling boats (multis too). It's hardly surprising that there is a top of the pyramid for racing fixed keel boats.

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I am curious about Zennström's thought process. I think he enjoys the design and build process more than sailing.

He always seems to burst on the scene with a boat ahead of the curve, crushes it then plays elsewhere. It's fun to do if you have the coin but must be frustrating for the classes he plays in.

I wonder if successful he will jump back into the Maxi72 class with a similar design.

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In my opinion we need people like him driving development forwards in the monohull sector at this size point. This boat (and GOF) has a few features you won’t find on a TP52, ultimately the advantage gained from these couple be undone by a wrong shift but it all adds up. They will still not find it easy, girls on film Ian a very similar boat and their already shit hot crew now have a couple of seasons under them. I just hope there’s a bit more media coverage than last year

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The cut away topsides forward will be good for aerodynamics, and for ultimate (180 degree roll over) stability. When upside down, the narrow foredeck and wide ass end will push the bow down, just like on an old IOR boat, with the result being less inverted stability (a very good thing).

I was impressed by the VERY close racing of the fleet on the water last summer. While any "box" rule (including a rating limit like on Maxi72 and Fast40+) does type form the boat (no wing masts, no multihulls, ...) which of course means the boats are not as fast as they could be, at least a rating limit allows substantially more degrees of freedom, so perhaps more general lessons can be learned.

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7 hours ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Rudder looks way forward.

 she's going to be twitchy at speed,  prolly could 360 in her own length...

The TP52s all have similarly forward rudders. With them there wide transoms, the rudder needs to be forward to stay in the water when heeled. Otherwise, you need to go to dual rudders. Plus it means that the helmsman doesn't have to sweep the tiller so far (ref: "twitchy").

"Twitchy at speed"? Compared to what? Herreshoff's Reliance?

"360 in her own length"? Practically every boat built since the '60s can do this.

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21 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

So what? Anything suffering from lead poisoning isn't going to be as fast as one of these. Fast 40+ is about the racing. Force people into a tighter box = better racing on the water.

 

Agree the racing is probably super! But say you took away the rating limit or made in higher, but kept the length, beam, width, draft,  monohull, fixed keel and no foils. You could have a lighter faster boat that is more fun off the wind (maybe). 

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12 hours ago, Kestrahl said:

Agree the racing is probably super! But say you took away the rating limit or made in higher, but kept the length, beam, width, draft,  monohull, fixed keel and no foils. You could have a lighter faster boat that is more fun off the wind (maybe). 

Yes, you’d get faster, albeit “delicate” boats, but I like what they’re doing. I won’t argue with any growing class. They’ve found a happy medium, and the owners seem happy. 

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So what is the cost out the door ready to sail with electronics and full wardrobe? USD $1.5 million? Just guessing and looking for guidance while I check between the couch cushions for change to start saving up......:P

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Looks badass, that's for sure!

Safe to assume that when properly trimmed upwind, this sled will heel just to the chine? If so, how does it behave when over heeled and the chine buried, will the forward chine have any measurable effect in pushing the bow to weather?

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this where that bow & hull form was first seen in back in  2011

 

Image result for peter hobson design aura dinghy

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13 minutes ago, SSolo said:

this where that bow & hull form was first seen in back in  2011

 

Image result for peter hobson design aura dinghy

Interesting, not quite the style hull platform etc, but looks very similar in ways,  Any more details, link etc available?

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