Panoramix

Route du Rhum 2018

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It is night so either he was asleep or unaware of where he was? I find the later hard to believe. So I'm going with asleep. His track at the time shows him sailing straight into land, if he was lucky it wasn't rocks? He is making progress now steadily, hopefully not having to bail water at the same time? If the boat is still sailing can't be too much damage hopefully and it can be repaired and continue with it's commitments? Another Alex moment for the history books. We may never know the truth, let's see how this one gets spun by the team... LOL

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From the race website and google translate:

 

Tonight, the Route du Rhum-Destination Guadeloupe Race Direction contacted Alex Thomson to check on the skipper and his boat.

Launched at full speed port tack, Hugo Boss hit the cliffs of Guadeloupe around 21:45 (local time). The accident occurred at the north end of Grande Terre, just south of the Grande Vigie lighthouse on La Pointe à Claude.

Driven to the coast, Alex Thomson had to break the sails and start his engine to extract his boat from the rocks. He was able to move away from the reefs before re-hoisting to resume his journey. Alex then cut his engine and installed a new lead on the propeller shaft.

The skipper was not injured but the damage is significant. The crash box and the bowsprit were damaged, resulting in a waterway, circumscribed by the bulkhead of the front peak.

The starboard foil is damaged. According to Alex, the keel and its structure were also affected without being able to establish a more precise diagnosis in the middle of the night.

Currently, the boat is sailing at a speed of 7 knots and continues its tour of the island. A SNSM star has been dispatched to the scene and is ready to respond if needed.

Approaching the little island 'Head to English', he has about 60 miles to run to the finish line.

The Jury was informed by the Race Direction of the accident and will file a protest against Alex Thomson for using his engine during the race.

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Alex  has used his engine (unsealed) and put the seal back, the jury is deliberating and should decide before the line on possible penalty.

The boat is very damaged :(

Tough !

 

I guess the jury would like to give him the win, but under the rules I'm afraid he is fucked, no ?

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Quote

Pénalité pour usge du moteur ?

Une telle réclamation devrat bien sûr entraîner une pénalité devant le jury, qui espère rendre une décision avant le passage de ligne. Celle-ci peut aller de quelques heures à la disqualification. Le jury prenant en compte, l'impérieuse nécessité d'engager le moteur pour un impératif de sécurité et de sauvetage du bateau.

Que s'est-il passé à bord ? Il est possible, voire probable qu'Alex Thomson dormait, ou n'était pas en veille, au moment où le choc s'est produit.

 

A 6 h ce matin, Alex Thomson, avait passé le fameux rocher de la Tête à l'Anglais, et il lui restait 45 milles à parcourir. Il marchaitentre 8 et 10 noeuds. 

https://www.ouest-france.fr/route-du-rhum/route-du-rhum-en-tete-de-la-course-alex-thomson-percute-une-falaise-6073480

 

According to above the penalty could between a few hours up to full disqualification ..

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Meanwhile let's spare a thought for Pierre Antoine who is standing by Arkema to pluck his buddy Lalou off his upside down Arkema. A job better done in the daylight I assume.

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1 minute ago, 3to1 said:

the boat got mangled. career low point?

 

1 minute ago, 3to1 said:

the boat got mangled. career low point?

It happens to the best. Just ask Francis Joyon.

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3 minutes ago, The yacht killer said:

First photos of HB as you can see the bow looks damaged and other photos along the hull is damaged also. 

44857217-35C2-4E7D-B2C0-539B2517FD4D.jpeg

where did you find that

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What a disaster. To crash the boat and be penalized for using the engine. Significant damage by the sound of it also. That's a real damper especially when the cause has to be he was asleep at the time? Can anyone else think of another logical explanation?

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Hopefully the fact his motor was used as a safety measure and not a performance measure holds some weight. He was complaining a lot about lack of sleep, maybe got a bit to comfortable and nodded off. Pork hunt.

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4 minutes ago, spyderpig said:

What type of drive does HB have for their engine? If saildrive how do you put a seal on the prop-shaft?

jpg_1429003373.jpg

Similar for HB I think

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An update on Alex's position..

Between 21:45-22:00 AST on Thursday, November 15th Alex Thomson’s IMOCA 60 race boat grounded at the north end of Grande Terre, just south of the Grande Vigie lighthouse on La Pointe à Claude. At the time, Thomson was sailing at around 6 knots.

In order to ensure the safety of himself and the boat, Thomson was forced to use his engine and manoeuvre the boat safely away from the coast. Once away from the coast, Thomson re-sealed the engine and re-commenced racing.

Upon closer inspection of HUGO BOSS by the Alex Thomson Racing technical team, the boat appears to have sustained only minor superficial damage.

Thomson is continuing on, and his focus remains on winning the race.

The team anticipates HUGO BOSS will cross the finish line at approximately 07:00 local time today (Friday, November 16).

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19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck you can't make this shit up..what is it with this guy plowing into stuff? Fuckin slow learner.

At least he is giving it a crack.

Pardon the pun.

Jack I didn’t see your entry feature on the competitors list so back off.

Alex has given more to the sport of sailing than most and you gotta feel for the guy right now.

 

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If a technical stop is allowed does that include use of engine? So many of the 123 entrants have stopped off at islands for a break on the way. Just that Melonhead left his a bit later

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21 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

 

He's obviously got some on. Water coming in perhaps or keel cant issues etc etc. 

Not necessarily - the wind round there is very light. Hopefully it's just light winds.

According to his website/team twitter, the damage is superficial. Although they may be playing things down of course!

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It's an interesting one for the Jury.  I have not found the RdR SSI's yet. 
However, the first question asked must be:
"Did AT gain an unfair advantage through the use of his engine?" 
a) Absolutely, or he'd be still on the rocks of a lee shore.  
b) Poor navigation and not keeping a proper watch is not the fault of his competitors, nor a valid excuse.  Adhering to those principles are all part of the game, regardless of sleep deprivation issues, which every solo skipper faces.
c) He used his engine for safety reasons.  However, it's also the skipper's responsibility to ensure the sea safety of the vessel when under sail, which includes not running aground.   
d) The following screen shot shows he approx gained 3.3nm his favour by motoring if making the assumption that the point he turned back upwind to the NE was when he raised sails again and turned off his engine propulsion.  He would have a much stronger case for exoneration if he followed in his course by reversing it under power and re-setting sails on the original course.  A tough one, at night, clearly disoriented and at panic stations while desperate to create some separation from land.

I'm an AT fan.  He's great for the sport and a charismatic spokesperson for sailing, especially in the English speaking world.  I'd love to see him win but I also think there are grounds for him to honourably retire.  What a Clusterf@ck!  

Keep going Alex.  Get HB across the line in good time and safely.  Worry about the fallout later.

 
    

image.png

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4 minutes ago, Grinning Ape said:

It's an interesting one for the Jury.  I have not found the RdR SSI's yet. 
However, the first question asked must be:
"Did AT gain an unfair advantage through the use of his engine?" 
a) Absolutely, or he'd be still on the rocks of a lee shore.  
b) Poor navigation and not keeping a proper watch is not the fault of his competitors, nor a valid excuse.  Adhering to those principles are all part of the game, regardless of sleep deprivation issues, which every solo skipper faces.
c) He used his engine for safety reasons.  However, it's also the skipper's responsibility to ensure the sea safety of the vessel when under sail, which includes not running aground.   
d) The following screen shot shows he approx gained 3.3nm his favour by motoring if making the assumption that the point he turned back upwind to the NE was when he raised sails again and turned off his engine propulsion.  He would have a much stronger case for exoneration if he followed in his course by reversing it under power and re-setting sails on the original course.  A tough one, at night, clearly disoriented and at panic stations while desperate to create some separation from land.

I'm an AT fan.  He's great for the sport and a charismatic spokesperson for the sailing, especially in the English speaking world.  I'd love to see him win but I also think there are grounds for him to horourably retire.  What a Clusterf@ck!  

Keep going Alex.  Get HB across the line in good time and safely.  Worry about the fallout later.

 
    

image.png

Yes - having seen the news, I was hoping/expecting the tracker to show him motoring (or sailing?) to a point definitely NE of his impact point, to undo any 'advantage' from using the engine.

Like you, I'm a huge AT fan, and fear for what he might have to do here to keep things honourable.

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Currently:

Alex has 31 miles to go at 3.5kts

Paul Meilhat has 191 miles at 17.5kts

Could be close! Although of course AT should go faster than that soon, and Paul will be entering light winds round the W side of the island. Or will they? Who knows with this race.

 

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Rules from 2014 on class40 website in english

 

basically it’s a time penalty all the way to disq. at the discretion of the jury.

 

sadly he has to face a penalty otherwise the race simply encourages undue risk. It’s already pretty lethal with the lack of sleep. 

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RRS 42.3 

Quote

42.3 Exceptions

(h) To get clear after grounding or colliding with a vessel or object, a boat may use force applied by her crew or the crew of the other vessel and any equipment other than a propulsion engine. However, the use of an engine may be permitted by rule 42.3(i).

(i) Sailing instructions may, in stated circumstances, permit propulsion using an engine or any other method, provided the boat does not gain a significant advantage in the race.

I cannot find the SIs for the Route Du Rhum, so uncertain whether RRS 42.3(i) is included.

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2 minutes ago, Grinning Ape said:

There's no denying that he was the 1st IMOCA to Guadeloupe though!  

 

 

2 minutes ago, scopas said:

Rules from 2014 on class40 website in english

 

basically it’s a time penalty all the way to disq. at the discretion of the jury.

 

sadly he has to face a penalty otherwise the race simply encourages undue risk. It’s already pretty lethal with the lack of sleep. 

Definitely. Hopefully a penalty which still gives him 1st.

The whole race is lethal due to the pressure to push the boats and lack of sleep. In fact I'm still surprised that offshore single handed racing is allowed under Colregs due to the complete inability to keep a proper lookout at all times, which is a legal requirement. There, that'll get a discussion going!

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What is fascinating is the angle Alex sailed from his last gybe. He could easily have sailed lower and cleared both parts of the island. He went way over the lay line according The the gribs on the tracker. Poor fucker must be knackered - I find it hard enough to sail the 16 hours across the English Channel so despite being annoyed for him I still respect all these guys.

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5 minutes ago, southernuksailor said:

 

Definitely. Hopefully a penalty which still gives him 1st.

The whole race is lethal due to the pressure to push the boats and lack of sleep. In fact I'm still surprised that offshore single handed racing is allowed under Colregs due to the complete inability to keep a proper lookout at all times, which is a legal requirement. There, that'll get a discussion going!

Good point ref Colregs. They get round it by the AIS alarm which isn’t much use under the face of a rocky cliff! Just unbelievable this whole race. Love the drama. 

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35 minutes ago, southernuksailor said:

Not necessarily - the wind round there is very light. Hopefully it's just light winds.

According to his website/team twitter, the damage is superficial. Although they may be playing things down of course!

I hope so cheers

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14 minutes ago, scopas said:

What is fascinating is the angle Alex sailed from his last gybe. He could easily have sailed lower and cleared both parts of the island. He went way over the lay line according The the gribs on the tracker. Poor fucker must be knackered - I find it hard enough to sail the 16 hours across the English Channel so despite being annoyed for him I still respect all these guys.

I agree and look at the angle the Multi 50 has just sailed. No gybes . He has fallen into a deep sleep IMO

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14 minutes ago, scopas said:

Good point ref Colregs. They get round it by the AIS alarm which isn’t much use under the face of a rocky cliff! Just unbelievable this whole race. Love the drama. 

I'd agree with that as in reality most of the collisions occur when the skipper is downstairs. The tech isn't working either arguably.

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2 hours ago, Zennor said:

Joyon had just set a record for sailing around the world single handed in a vessel substantially larger & was not racing

Actually it was after setting the Trans Atlantic record. 

 

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The Multi 50 is smoking around the Island in comparison to Alex. Alex was 100 miles ahead 12 hours ago and now Alex is only 9 miles ahead. 

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What a crap bit of news to wake up to this morning.  Was getting up in the hope of seeing Alex cross the line.  Glad he is ok though and able to continue.  Awaiting the jury decision with interest.

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51 minutes ago, scopas said:

What is fascinating is the angle Alex sailed from his last gybe. He could easily have sailed lower and cleared both parts of the island. He went way over the lay line according The the gribs on the tracker. Poor fucker must be knackered - I find it hard enough to sail the 16 hours across the English Channel so despite being annoyed for him I still respect all these guys.

Agree. His track was aiming straight at the cliffs for quite some miles out. No variation Very strange as you would hardly expect him to be sleeping on his first sight 《sic) of land. It will be interesting to hear what he says. Could well be autopilot was on apparent wind rather than compass. But even then the track hardly changes all the way into the rocks. 

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1 hour ago, southernuksailor said:

 

Definitely. Hopefully a penalty which still gives him 1st.

The whole race is lethal due to the pressure to push the boats and lack of sleep. In fact I'm still surprised that offshore single handed racing is allowed under Colregs due to the complete inability to keep a proper lookout at all times, which is a legal requirement. There, that'll get a discussion going!

No it won’t, it’s been kicked to fucking death here many times!

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

No it won’t, it’s been kicked to fucking death here many times!

Too right. Guess he is a newbie 

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1 hour ago, Grinning Ape said:

There's no denying that he was the 1st IMOCA to Guadeloupe though!  

 

So what? Gabart was the first Ultime to Guadeloupe, and we know how that ended...

I really hope AT can still grab this win, but a sanction seem unavoidable.

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The Multi 50 finally slowing down to around 4 knots. Lets see if a bashed up Imoca 60 can hold off a 50 foot racing tri? Alex's lawyer has already prepared a case for using the Engine. Alex fell asleep, the alarm couldn't wake him, he ran aground. Not only did he run aground he was off course to his disadvantage. The engine was only engaged to free himself from the rocks and certain destruction. A penalty would only further embarrass the only notable non French sailor in the fleet (pardon the Pom spin) . 

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thought he was looking weary, then the tracker, it was obvious..... asleep at the wheel....no whites available.....shite

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6 minutes ago, Akshiena said:

thought he was looking weary, then the tracker, it was obvious..... asleep at the wheel....no whites availale.....shite

It is night time and Alex found a nice comfortable bunk. The alarm was on, all was good. He was 230 miles ahead of his nearest competitor..........

I can't finish the rest so we'll wait until later.........................................

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Terra....I've done a few ...Transpacs...deliiveries to tierra del fuck wherever you are...and yes..fatigue has seen me on the cockpit floor....couldn't care.. its a killer..

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

At least he is giving it a crack.

Pardon the pun.

Jack I didn’t see your entry feature on the competitors list so back off.

Alex has given more to the sport of sailing than most and you gotta feel for the guy right now.

 

So your prerequisite for anyone providing negative commentary you don't like on a participant in a sailboat race is they first have to be a competitor in the same race.

Do you really think that is reasonable?

PS. You probably haven't noticed during the process of concocting this nonsensical spectator philosophy of yours is that I'm a big AT fan. 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

So your prerequisite for anyone providing negative commentary you don't like on a participant in a sailboat race is they first have to be a competitor in the same race.

Do you really think that is reasonable?

PS. You probably haven't noticed during the process of concocting this spectator philosophy of yours and brain fart of a post is that I'm a big AT fan. 

Jack you are too kind........

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image.png.cd6e685bd7be8316a4a5b792693ff00b.png

Surely less than 3 hours left if AT doesn't stop at Les Saintes. A bit surprising that still no announcement regarding his penalty.

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Just now, Lakrass said:

image.png.cd6e685bd7be8316a4a5b792693ff00b.png

Surely less than 3 hours left if AT doesn't stop at Les Saintes. A bit surprising that still no announcement regarding his penalty.

There will be a hearing after he finishes (if he doesn't crash into Les Saintes...).

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1 minute ago, Lakrass said:

Surely less than 3 hours left if AT doesn't stop at Les Saintes. A bit surprising that still no announcement regarding his penalty.

I can think of worse places to stop. You really need to pick up a mooring ball if there are any left.

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It can on the list with being hit by a fishing boat on the way to a start a few years ago. :ph34r:

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There have been another collision this past night: Claire Pruvot in class 40 with a cargo south of Portugal.

The same cargo picked her up after "avoir sécurisée son bateau" which I guess it means: taken down the sails, set up the appropriate lights, etc. The boat is quite damaged, and the joint between the hull and the starboard deck has opened, so not very secure ... 

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5 hours ago, yl75 said:

DsGLJxnU4AEYKiR.jpg:large

Tweet embeding doesn't work anymore ?

Strange waypoint ... Seen the damage, Alex was very lucky not ot loose foil AND rig.

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15 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

There will be a hearing after he finishes (if he doesn't crash into Les Saintes...).

Just a short nap.

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Rotten thing to happen at the end of such a race. Rulemakers have a lot to answer for when penalties for incidents like this one, an entirely predictable possibility, have not been considered in advance and there is no clear procedure to determine the magnitude of the penalty.  If the jury can really decide between a penalty of a short time, like the hour or so the incident involved, and full disqualification, then the jury, not the competitors, are deciding the actual race result. Whatever the jury decides I guess the big majority of fans will disagree strongly, one way or another. Not a good happy result.
I would have liked to see Alex win cleanly, but then when I think "How can you be the proud winner of a major sailing race if you sail your boat onto the rocks and have to motor off to avoid totally wrecking your boat?"
I sure would not want to be in the shoes of the jury which has to decide this one! Of course Alex should retire gracefully and take the pressure off the jury but I very much doubt Hugo Boss would allow such a generous gesture.

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34 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

That’s not negative it’s childish.

I gave you some slack...you didn't take the hint.. so now you have moved me into the territory of saying who gives a fuck what you think.

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5 minutes ago, staysail said:

I would have liked to see Alex win cleanly, but then when I think "How can you be the proud winner of a major sailing race if you sail your boat onto the rocks and have to motor off to avoid totally wrecking your boat?"
 

This is the dilemma for me as well.  I'm a massive fan of AT and the class and I think the class could really do with a non-French winner, but if it is indeed a win it will always be clouded over by this issue.  Will the general opinion still be that he is a great sailor and a deserving winner because he stacked it into a cliff on an island the size of Guadeloupe?

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8 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

Has it happened before in the RdR? If so what was the outcome.

 

Have to say, if it was me I would finish and then retire.

It would never be me.  I could not do what AT or any of them does.   

But, after a short sleep, I think he should retire.  

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AT should be dsq.

Without motoring he could not have finished, that's 1n unfair advantage

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Well, now there is no good end to this.

I was trying to think as the race comittee and it seems like they will have to check if Alex could have got out of the rock w/o motoring.

Here is my guess Basically, they can admit he used the engine for security reasons and just ad a couple of hours as penalty but if it is acertained that without engine we would have stayed agroud, then he will be DSQ.

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A previous live on Canal 10 TV, they should be live again soon :

https://www.facebook.com/106879605998916/videos/342380279898166/

You can also look at that TV channel below :

http://www.canal10-tv.com/

note : the page is quite strange, nothing for some seconds, and then the video frame appears.

 

Meanwhile some serious waves live off portugal :

https://www.facebook.com/WSL/videos/194829808109082/?notif_id=1542352633086553&notif_t=live_video_explicit

 

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It’s one of those races so which does allow quite a bit of outside assistance. Remember those reports (from the Multi 50 but was similar with Amel on BP before) who took a pitstop, the skipper was sent to sleep while a big shorteam worked on the boats for hours, fixing smaller and bigger problems, before sending the boats out again?

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