Panoramix

Route du Rhum 2018

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Forget the result today for Alex. If he loses it will be the same as Gabart losing. Sorry but that's my take, rules into play, outcomes as per the judges etc etc. The big picture is the VG next time around. If you get to the finish Island and accidentally run aground 230 miles ahead of your next opponent you win in my book. We all know he didn't gain an advantage by starting his engine, fuck the rules. Judge the race by what we know, not who get's their name inked to some paper. 

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News about the jury (only FR version at this point) :

https://www.routedurhum.com/fr/actualite/1047

Quote

La grille des pénalités

« Sur la Route du Rhum, les pénalités sont exprimées en temps. Elles vont de 0 jusqu’à la disqualification. Nous travaillons sur un système de grille avec des plages selon la gravité de l’infraction : pénalité de 0 à 2 h, pénalité de 2 h à 24 h, pénalité de 24 h à DSQ (disqualification) ».

La composition du jury- Le jugement sans appel

Le jury international de la Route du Rhum-Destination Guadeloupe est composé de cinq arbitres : deux Britanniques, deux Français, un Allemand. Comme il s’agit d’un jury international, ses décisions ne sont pas susceptibles d’appel.

« Quelle que soit la décision, les circonstances et le timing de l’événement entraîneront nécessairement de la frustration. Nous espérons pouvoir rendre un jugement avant le passage de la ligne par Alex Thomson. Mais tout dépend à l’heure qu’il est de sa réponse, conformément à la procédure.  

2 Brits, 2 French and 1 German in the jury.

Depending on their judgment, from 0 to full DSQ, nothing new in this news.

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On Route du Rhum's twitter: Lalou is on board Olmix, Pierre Antoine will continue to Point-a-Pitre and at some point the tug will intercept them for another change of boat.

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3 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Forget the result today for Alex. If he loses it will be the same as Gabart losing. Sorry but that's my take, rules into play, outcomes as per the judges etc etc. The big picture is the VG next time around. If you get to the finish Island and accidentally run aground 230 miles ahead of your next opponent you win in my book. We all know he didn't gain an advantage by starting his engine, fuck the rules. Judge the race by what we know, not who get's their name inked to some paper. 

Totally agree... next VG he will sail the new one, not this one... what a nice preSelling campaign!, with all this, the (old) boat is increasing its value by seconds...

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Maybe those handwringing on both sides would be better employed first reading the Notice of Race and secondly in conjunction with the facts. If nothing else that will save a lot of wringing.

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The speaker.... Hey AT... Whats up men!!  8^D

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Why did he report having a broken foil when it is not the case ?

Communication issue ?

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I’m not the biggest AT fan, but have to say, until today, he has sailed an unbelievable race, and is one of the most exciting competitors to follow.  His gutsy move at the beginning of the campaign to go north while the rest of the fleet went the other direction was an admirable display of confidence, and paid off. I am sad his race ended on a sour note, but am really happy he crossed the line. Well done. 

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Just now, yl75 said:

Why did he report having a broken foil when it is not the case ?

Communication issue ?

It's clearly damaged in canal10 video,  "broken" meaning it was not going to be useful any more ?

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well he is there ....great to see .  what ever the result .  thanks for the facebook link  yl75 . this footage she is still moving well

 

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Alex Thomson a été le premier IMOCA à franchir la ligne d’arrivée à Pointe-à-Pitre ce vendredi à 8 h 10 ' 58 s (heure de Guadeloupe) après 11 jours, 23 heures, 10 minutes et 58 secondes de course, à 12,33 nœuds de moyenne (sur l'orthodromie). Au total, il a parcouru 4713 milles (16,4 noeuds de moyenne sur l'eau)

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17 minutes ago, razcaillou said:

Nothing on the RdR official facebook or website .... strange even if the jury decision is not out.

Comments like this on this thread are getting more bizzare by the minute. No protest has been lodged, no Jury has been convened and no evidence has been presented at this point.

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Just now, remenich said:

image.png.3ed70f9595e2d1a707e2bc55dcf01d15.png

A grounding in rocks w/ carbon machine... very very lucky just scratches and no rig down, broken hull, etc. 

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He fucked up, used his engine, should do the honourable thing and retire as you would in any race.   Unfortunately not his style.

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4 minutes ago, GBH said:

He fucked up, used his engine, should do the honourable thing and retire as you would in any race.   Unfortunately not his style.

Been there, done that, but take a breath and put yourself into AT´s situation. What a stressful situation. First thing to get the boat of the rocks. Totally exhausted. I think he made some good decisions, maybe half asleep, got some luck, did the right thing and kept on going. He will not have taken total control over mind and body before finishing and I think he just kept going on. Did I see the boat a bit low in the water in the vids ? (thanks for the contributors of the direct link) My feelings are with Alex at this moment and I do hope that the jury is out there and takes a wise decision. Whatever it will be, AT, the HB team and we followers have to swallow it.

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

And the hits keep on coming.

It's human nature to fill in missing information with wild stories.  Its how rumors generally get started.  

That said, I called it last night :)  He scraped off the cliffs.  SMH.

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26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Comments like this on this thread are getting more bizzare by the minute. No protest has been lodged, no Jury has been convened and no evidence has been presented at this point.

Based on the french interview of the jury director: https://www.routedurhum.com/fr/actualite/1047

Race commity has protested , and jury was convened...  they were aiming to give their decision before he crossed the line so they had all the evidence they needed. .They were only are waiting to for thomson reply to give their verdict apparently.

Still I don't see why this prevented the RO from broadcasting the arrival or annoncing that ATR crossed the line, it took them a good 20minutes to do so...

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According to Jacques Guyader, French journalist, Alex Thompson will not step on land before a decision has been made.

 

EDIT: 24 hr penalty

 

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2 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Harsh.

Supposedly it's the minimum penalty in this kind of situation, which is not what the president of the jury said initialy.

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Just now, razcaillou said:

Supposedly it's the minimum penalty in this kind of situation, which is not what the president of the jury said initialy.

Not passing any judgement on the jury, there will be rules, procedures etc. Just feels harsh which is my armchair opinion.

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Just now, razcaillou said:

What about the IMOCA record? Does the penalty also apply for it?

Traditionally yes, as race records are on race time.

Course record perhaps?

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Tough, but understandable. Looked with his heading to Les Saints he wanted to quit. It is nice there...
Could be even after Hermann.

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The avoidable carnage of singlehanded sleep deprived ocean racing is stupid drama.  It doesn't fairly evaluate the boats at all but it sure does destroy them, all too frequently.  A high price to pay for the glory of doing it alone.

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Alex just needs cargo helicopter to drop boat to restart site.

6hour sleep in hotel and he can still beat other imocas ;)

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26 minutes ago, Manfred said:

Been there, done that, but take a breath and put yourself into AT´s situation. What a stressful situation. First thing to get the boat of the rocks. Totally exhausted. I think he made some good decisions, maybe half asleep, got some luck, did the right thing and kept on going. He will not have taken total control over mind and body before finishing and I think he just kept going on. Did I see the boat a bit low in the water in the vids ? (thanks for the contributors of the direct link) My feelings are with Alex at this moment and I do hope that the jury is out there and takes a wise decision. Whatever it will be, AT, the HB team and we followers have to swallow it.

AT and the HB team are increasing their value with all this shit... and the boat is for sale... real winner and rock grounding resistant vessel!...

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Thompson saying he feels he disqualified himself, apparently went for sleep before rounding the island but all his alarms didn't woke him up

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the 40s are going to be interesting  Phil dropping back a few miles but  the group back to seventh is  certainly swirling around each other....what a class . ..a spread of 300 miles . 

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7 minutes ago, ague said:
9 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

A link would have been helpful?

Also live on the RdR website right now

That's not a link either.  I looked there first and didn't find it.  Fortunately, it showed up on YouTube.  Copy/paste to post a link really isn't hard, folks.  It should be mandatory when posting quoted content or images.

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I wonder to what extend HB(as a sponsor) is pissed about Alex or not ...

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Good article in French

Quick and dirty translation (this was written before the 24 hr penalty was announced):

Alain Gautier

Whoever laughs at Alex aboutt he situation doesn't understand anything about sailing! It is very sad, even stupid. But you have to understand, after 12 day's racing, it is very hard on the body. Did he fall asleep on purpose or not? When you are that tired, you don't control anything: you can sit at the chart table et fall asleep in a fraction of a second. Alarms? If he didn't chose to fall alseep, he didn't put them on. We all did it anyway, it buzzes, you press the button to stop it, and just close your eyes for 10 seconds...

It is quite common in Figaro. We'll have to wait for the jury decisions, but Paul and Yann have had a great race as well, wherever they finish. Yann impressed me! He fell in a wind hole at Cap Finisterre, didn't have any luck in the low pressure, and since then he pushed really really hard, very impressive! I am a bit more surprised about Vincent. His broken wind mode on his autopilot doesn't justify everything for me, I bet there are more problems. Even in compass mode, he should have been able to go faster.

Jean Le Cam

An alarm? You can have all the alrms you want, sometimes they won't wake you up when you are that exhausted. If the pilot what in wind mode, the boat just followed the wind. It happened to Joyon after his round the world record - same thing. He ended up int he rock in North Finistere. I once had to fend off rocks under my Figaro. My pilot was in wind mode, and we ended up in rock mode!

Aaprt from that, well done to Tripon, 3rd on the line. Congrats! Beautiful victory. And what Paul and Yann are doing, it is also great. Yann was 50 nm behind at Cap Finisterre. Since, he pushed so hard, what a nice job he did! I guess he is still 100%. I know him: I raced halfway round the globe with him. He never lets go, he is a great competitor. Whether he is solo or not, he is always thinking about everything to stay at the front. Hell of a job Yann!

Yves Le Cornec

I think Alex kind of let go when approaching Guadeloupe, with his 180 nm lead. When you finish that race, you are proprely fried. I remember in 1990, getting closer to the finish, I was told about Florence Arthaud's victory, I was really happy for her and I stopped thinking about the race for a bit. My 20/30 min naps turned into a 4 hour one, despite all the alarms! There is a limit when you so tired and you just stay awake due to stress. I think Alex slept deeply and for a long time. He must have gone down for 30 minutes and didn't wake up.

Non-sailors will say that it is unbelievable to make such a big mistake and still possibly win! It is not that crazy. It was a tough race on tough boats. He gave 100% from the start and built fatigue. I think he is exhausted! It is not the same rythm on a Vendee Globe or Route du Rhum. When ou know what Route du Rhum is like, it is understandable. I can only imagine what a nightmare it's been. What a way to wake up! Hit the cliff at 19 knots in the dark and wake up in the middle of the rocks, mayhem! He mustn't have known if he was dreaming or if it was reality! You can't wish that happening to your worst enemy. I have been there, it is a big cliff!  He was lucky to get away, he could easily have lost his boat, ehich would have been really sad. DSQ? I leave this to the jury, but in my opinion he still deserves to win! It could be a 10 hour penalty. And for Paul, Yann or Vincent, winning like that is never satisfactory. In the 1984 OSTAR, Yvon wins when Philou was the first over the line. What a sad story, none of them really won at the end.

Bernard Gallay

Alex had a great race, it is really sad it is ending up like that. For me, the only opposition for him was Charal, but the boat was too recent.

DSQ? I don't know. I didn't really give it much thought, but for me, he can't win. He would never has gone off the rocks without using his engine. I can't see how you can grant him the victory in these conditions. It is complicated and could lead to strange things in the future. An english jury would'nt even think about it... unless if the other ones are 3 days behind... and even though... It is a complicated story! It is difficult to give him a time penalty, with no engine,he would have been DNF! I am not part of the jury though...

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1 minute ago, yl75 said:

I wonder to what extend HB(as a sponsor) is pissed about Alex or not ...

HB at this point is getting some kind of return on him even though he's not winning, Nokia on the other hand must have raised eyebrows right now...

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

I wonder to what extend HB(as a sponsor) is pissed about Alex or not ...

Why should they? ATR handled that situation very well.

There are more pissed sponsors than HB.

For example Banque Populaire where we haven't seen any pictures or statements.

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Shock watch died, audio alarms didn't wake him up.

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Alex has said he hopes Paul Wins    in the interveiew .    he slept through... the electric shock watch didnt wake him...He has a souvenir of Guadaloupe......pulled a rock out of his pocket . ...  he is grateful to be there ...

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15 minutes ago, TPG said:

Nokia on the other hand must have raised eyebrows right now...

 

9 minutes ago, TPG said:

Shock watch died, audio alarms didn't wake him up.

Agreed.  Stupid watch!  Poor design since it didn't notify the user that it was losing its charge and wouldn't be able to fulfill its most critical function.

Still...  Aiming directly for an island and hoping you'll wake up before you hit it was a poor decision.

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The souvenir (guadalupe piece of rock) was just top... and the Meilhat push w/out foils..., the boat being moral winner of VG and Rhum... his arrival is been just a class act... even better than winning w/out the last melonFuck (what a great campaign)

Sponsor HugoBoss must be not just only proud, but celebrating their (8 year o something like that) alliance

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Great interview, great sportsman. 

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Just now, ProaSailor said:

 

Agreed.  Stupid watch!  Poor design since it didn't notify the user that it was losing its charge and wouldn't be able to fulfill its most critical function.

Or it just went tits up on him. Probably has nothing to do with design and just being beaten on offshore.

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24 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

That's not a link either.  I looked there first and didn't find it.  Fortunately, it showed up on YouTube.  Copy/paste to post a link really isn't hard, folks.  It should be mandatory when posting quoted content or images.

Are you really so pathetic that you are incapable of looking for yourself and need spoon feeding every step of the way???

Don't bother answering, we know the answer.

Edit,

Thanks for the downvote

Image result for cry baby

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19 minutes ago, forss said:

Why should they? ATR handled that situation very well.

There are more pissed sponsors than HB.

For example Banque Populaire where we haven't seen any pictures or statements.

Yes no pictures of BP ! Are they all with the insurers' lawyers ?

 

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Copy pasting with a phone in a hurry is sometimes shitty, probably doing it in office hours under the desk :)

Phil Sharp still on back up pilot I take from article on the site;
And Railmeat feeling fresh

 

Update from Michael Hennessy: "I feel like a new man"

Class 40 skipper, Michael Hennessy gives us an update from on board Green Dragon:

"More bearing, south bound this time.  While the winds did not bring any north west reaching conditions, they have definitely presented openings in the High and I am trying to take advantage of that.  Looks like mostly south bound until noon to tomorrow then the wind should clock a bit more to the west or north west allowing me to point more directly towards Guadeloupe. The goal is to get through this stretch recently occupied by the high and below the boundaries of it's new home to the north east of Guadeloupe. 

Lots more to come,  but its progress 

Went through the boat carefully today.  I had to replace a main sheet block that exploded into bearings everywhere, and tidy up elsewhere. Everything is in pretty good shape, including me. A few stretching exercises, fresh clothes, brush the teeth and I feel like a new man. 

Until tomorrow. "

 

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http://www.courseaularge.com/alex-thomson-ecope-dune-penalite-de-24h.html?fbclid=IwAR08v3sOuu1ez3_-YXG42IAqhJjeTPqozU_gYm_FAi6qDOKCeFbt8OHeQcg

 

Quote

Less than 40 minutes after crossing the finish line, it was notified to the British skipper after copping a penalty of 24 hours. It adds to his race time that becomes in fact 12 days 23 hours 10 minutes 58 seconds. This decision was taken unanimously by the international jury of five members (two French, two British, one German). It is final and obviously revived the race for the final victory in the IMOCA since Paul Meilhat and Yann Elies, currently 140 miles from Pointe-à-Pitre, are expected within twelve hours. "I want to pay tribute to Alex (Thomson) who had a reaction of great sportsmanship, explained Georges Priol, president of the jury. The security aspect was a mitigating factor that avoided disqualification. But the penalty of 24 hours was the minimum applicable in the case of Hugo Boss skipper. "

 

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3 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Really ??

Hear HIS dock interview complete please...

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Yann coming  up on Paul  15 nm behind    its interesting again  shame if foils get up at this stage   Paul has sailed an excellent race ... and so has Yann

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21 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

 

Still...  Aiming directly for an island and hoping you'll wake up before you hit it was a poor decision.

 

He was probably sailing with AP in wind mode, and the boat changed course as the wind direction was altered by the island.

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4 minutes ago, razcaillou said:

 

He was probably sailing with AP in wind mode, and the boat changed course as the wind direction was altered by the island.

Nope. Track is almost dead straight onto the island

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58 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

My pilot was in wind mode, and we ended up in rock mode!

Le Cam!

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There's a maximum deviation from normal course that the autopilot accepts in wind mode, aint it, and setting off alarms when too far off course ?

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Tough shit and all that, but single/shorthanded or full crewed you have to have good judgement and maintenance of your human resources -  so coming up to the island here is always going to need full attention on the tricky passage around.  With the miles buffer he had then really could and should have eased off to get some rest beforehand.

So poor judgement of his own capabilities really, no point in being balls to wall if you then crash in the final furlong to mix up a few metaphors:)

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57 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

Stupid watch!  Poor design since it didn't notify the user that it was losing its charge and wouldn't be able to fulfill its most critical function.

More like he forgot to charge it.  How many electric shocks per charge?

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42 minutes ago, huey 2 said:

Yann coming  up on Paul  15 nm behind    its interesting again  shame if foils get up at this stage   Paul has sailed an excellent race ... and so has Yann

I've been thinking...  if the wind diminishes in the final miles...  What's the low end of the wind range where foils are an advantage?  And is there a wind range low enough where they're actually a detriment?  Or has the technology advanced enough that they're actually beneficial in all wind conditions now?

 

7 minutes ago, GBH said:

Tough shit and all that, but single/shorthanded or full crewed you have to have good judgement and maintenance of your human resources -  so coming up to the island here is always going to need full attention on the tricky passage around.  With the miles buffer he had then really could and should have eased off to get some rest beforehand.

So poor judgement of his own capabilities really, no point in being balls to wall if you then crash in the final furlong to mix up a few metaphors:)

I like AT, but this was my first thought too...  He was leading by 200 nm, and sailing toward a potentially tricky final 80 nm.  How did he not prioritize getting adequate sleep during the last 36-48 hours before landfall?

Having done VG, there's no doubt he has the knowledge and experience to treat his sleep schedule as a critical element of the strategy.  All I can think is that maybe after doing something like VG, one starts looking at a 12-day race as something they can plow through, horribly sleep-deprived, without going into a more regimented approach to sleep management?  Maybe 12 days starts to seem "short"?

He's damn lucky he didn't sink the boat and possibly kill himself.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:
59 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

Stupid watch!  Poor design since it didn't notify the user that it was losing its charge and wouldn't be able to fulfill its most critical function.

More like he forgot to charge it.  How many electric shocks per charge?

I don't know but that's the point of proper design, the device should be smart enough to fail safe.  An indicator (or shock) at the time he set the alarm could have avoided this outcome.  Speculation by @TPG that failure was due to "just being beaten on offshore" is only that - speculation, and no excuse.

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1 minute ago, Your Mom said:

How did he not prioritize getting adequate sleep during the last 36-48 hours before landfall?

Looking and feeling fresh for the in dock interviews is critical.

 

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1 minute ago, Your Mom said:

I like AT, but this was my first thought too...  He was leading by 200 nm, and sailing toward a potentially tricky final 80 nm.  How did he not prioritize getting adequate sleep during the last 36-48 hours before landfall?

Having done VG, there's no doubt he has the knowledge and experience to treat his sleep schedule as a critical element of the strategy.  All I can think is that maybe after doing something like VG, one starts looking at a 12-day race as something they can plow through, horribly sleep-deprived, without going into a more regimented approach to sleep management?

He's damn lucky he didn't sink the boat and possibly kill himself.

+1. I also like AT, think he is good for the sport and all, but he was way in the lead. Sleep prior to getting to the tricky nav part of the race should have been priority number 1. He hit the bloody island, not some obscure reef in the middle of nowhere (that didn't show up unless you zoomed in on the plotter). The penalty needs to be harsh IMO. He hit the island.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Looking and feeling fresh for the in dock interviews is critical.

 

He looked good and sounded articulate to me. Definitely feel sorry for the guy. 

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3 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

I don't know but that's the point of proper design, the device should be smart enough to fail safe.  An indicator (or shock) at the time he set the alarm could have avoided this outcome.  Speculation by @TPG that failure was due to "just being beaten on offshore" is only that - speculation, and no excuse.

Apparently you've been shocked in the head one too many times. 

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