kmacdonald

Baltimore Pigs

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As some of you know, the Baltimore police dept is still under federal investigation.  Several internal affairs pigs plead guilty to a laundry list of crimes including  murder for hire.  Unfortunately they were highly decorated officers and considered the best of the best.  What a fucking shit hole.  An officer that was going to testify today was found shot in the head by his own gun.  Foul play suspected but they don't have anyone to investigate.  Seems there is no confidence in the police force, shocker.  Rumor has it they were also trafficking  minors for the sex slave trade.  And you stupid fucks want to take away our guns?

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10 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

As some of you know, the Baltimore police dept is still under federal investigation.  Several internal affairs pigs plead guilty to a laundry list of crimes including  murder for hire.  Unfortunately they were highly decorated officers and considered the best of the best.  What a fucking shit hole.  An officer that was going to testify today was found shot in the head by his own gun.  Foul play suspected but they don't have anyone to investigate.  Seems there is no confidence in the police force, shocker.  Rumor has it they were also trafficking  minors for the sex slave trade.  And you stupid fucks want to take away our guns?

link?

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And in other news a Japanese cop shot a cop and ran away.   He got caught.  The nation is stunned, first blue on blue in modern times.

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Sounds like they need Yaphet Kotto back.

But I think he wants to stay in Canada.

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29 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

link?

The cop murder was in the newspaper on Saturday.  The investigation has been going on since they killed a guy they took into custody.  It was in the national news.  Their problems are well know to the community but they don't seem to be stoppable.  Feds are afraid of them.  They control the drug trafficking for the area.  It's like the murder capitol of the US.  When violent crime is as bad as it is in Baltimore, you know the police are at least complicit.  Several have plead guilty and others are on trial.

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10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Sounds like they need Yaphet Kotto back.

But I think he wants to stay in Canada.

I did CPR on the red haired det the episode where they knocked on the wrong door, also cut off Daniel Baldwin's pants (and got paid for it). Ned Beatty was a riot, and they were all very cool, except the dead dick, I mean detective. She was moaning while I was doing my best straight arm CPR (with play in the shoulders so I didn't hurt her). I was muttering "be quiet" & "Stop moaning." Between takes she demanded to know why I was saying anything. I told her that I only do CPR on dead people, and they really don't moan very much. She yelled at the director.

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21 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

I did CPR on the red haired det the episode where they knocked on the wrong door, also cut off Daniel Baldwin's pants (and got paid for it). Ned Beatty was a riot, and they were all very cool, except the dead dick, I mean detective. She was moaning while I was doing my best straight arm CPR (with play in the shoulders so I didn't hurt her). I was muttering "be quiet" & "Stop moaning." Between takes she demanded to know why I was saying anything. I told her that I only do CPR on dead people, and they really don't moan very much. She yelled at the director.

You’re spot on about Beatty. I was in the episode in which he and Munch (Richard Belzer) investigate a dead Santa in a fountain on Eutaw Street. I was one of 4 “carolers” walking behind the detectives. The other guy decides to be a wise-ass and says “When I twist your ear...”. Beatty spun around, pointed at him, and said “I want him off the set. NOW.”  They hustled him away and another extra stepped in. Later, Belzer is as a diva and went to his trailer. Beatty sat on the curb and shot the shit wit him the extras as we ate lukewarm chili. Really nice guy with a filthy joke catalog. 

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That was some good TV, but folks should read the book; the truth was amazing/ridiculous/staggering: 

   The lady who poisoned husbands, and was only found out when they exhumed a corpse and found it was the wrong guy buried in the grave... ended up with just a horrific scene of a cemetary with no apparent organizational effort. Her husbands knew her history, yet still signed the will she had drawn up.

   The murderer who confessed after an interrogation at a Xerox machine loaded with "TRUE" "TRUE" "FALSE"  papers was used as a lie detector.

WO man. That was some good writing! David Simon was actually at a post mortem I got to watch, but I didn't know who he was at the time. Shoulda gotten an autograph.

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Haven’t read that. I’ve tried 4 times to read “The Corner”. Get a bit ways in and depression sets in. Talk about dismal. 

Absolutely loved “The Wire”. 

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

WTF - is this a time warp?

 

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Oh, this is pathetic.  The newly installed Baltimore City Police Commissioner has been charged with failure to file taxes for three straight years. 

His response?  He called it a  "failure to prioritize his personal affairs".

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On 4/16/2018 at 7:55 PM, phillysailor said:

I did CPR on the red haired det the episode where they knocked on the wrong door, also cut off Daniel Baldwin's pants (and got paid for it). Ned Beatty was a riot, and they were all very cool, except the dead dick, I mean detective. She was moaning while I was doing my best straight arm CPR (with play in the shoulders so I didn't hurt her). I was muttering "be quiet" & "Stop moaning." Between takes she demanded to know why I was saying anything. I told her that I only do CPR on dead people, and they really don't moan very much. She yelled at the director.

Quite often they wheeze though....

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Well this explains some things. The Baltimore po-po are too busy investigating themselves to bother with criminals* :rolleyes:

* that are not employees of the department

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22 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Well this explains some things. The Baltimore po-po are too busy investigating themselves to bother with criminals* :rolleyes:

* that are not employees of the department

We can fix that. Instead of arresting crooks, hand them job applications. Two birds, one stone. You're welcome ^_^

-DSK

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:17 PM, Bus Driver said:

Oh, this is pathetic.  The newly installed Baltimore City Police Commissioner has been charged with failure to file taxes for three straight years. 

His response?  He called it a  "failure to prioritize his personal affairs".

Likely Trump quote. 

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4 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Definition of Baltimore for a century. 

Reminds of the wire when the old politician told the younger one something like:

"We stole 1/3 of the money. You all steal so much the city don't work"

 

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IMHO it may be possible that some outside agency needs to take over. The Baltimore PD seems totally unable to not commit crimes themselves.

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1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

IMHO it may be possible that some outside agency needs to take over. The Baltimore PD seems totally unable to not commit crimes themselves.

Completely agree.

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On 5/15/2018 at 4:01 PM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Perhaps the entire city government could stand an Inspector General's visit. 

They'd just play the race card.

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On 4/16/2018 at 4:03 PM, kmacdonald said:

As some of you know, the Baltimore police dept is still under federal investigation.  Several internal affairs pigs plead guilty to a laundry list of crimes including  murder for hire.  Unfortunately they were highly decorated officers and considered the best of the best.  What a fucking shit hole.  An officer that was going to testify today was found shot in the head by his own gun.  Foul play suspected but they don't have anyone to investigate.  Seems there is no confidence in the police force, shocker.  Rumor has it they were also trafficking  minors for the sex slave trade.  And you stupid fucks want to take away our guns?

Baltimore is a shithole????  I am shocked!

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15 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

Baltimore is a shithole????  I am shocked!

It didn't come as a surprise to most people.  

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14 hours ago, nacradriver said:

Baltimore is a shithole????  I am shocked!

Just like anyplace else,some neighborhoods are rougher than others, and there are great places throughout the entire city and its suburbs.  Baltimore City has been plagued with ineffective leadership for a while - let's hope it improves, the folks there deserve better. 

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20 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

the folks there deserve better. 

We all get the government we deserve

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6 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

We all get the government we deserve

Somethin' I think many forget, is that "the folks" include the people who *didn't* vote for the "government we deserve". 

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Somethin' I think many forget, is that "the folks" include the people who *didn't* vote for the "government we deserve". 

 

Like the 3 million more that voted for Clinton, than did for Trump!!

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There are parts of Baltimore that absolutely qualify as a “shithole”. Through decades of corruption and ineffectual leadership, there are pockets of blight and poverty that should bring shame to anyone in a position of authority. 

There are also parts of Baltimore that are simply gorgeous. I am lucky to have been able to raise my children in such an environment. I choose to live here and work to make my city better. I am not alone, and I see a long and productive road ahead. 

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5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

There are parts of Baltimore that absolutely qualify as a “shithole”. Through decades of corruption and ineffectual leadership, there are pockets of blight and poverty that should bring shame to anyone in a position of authority. 

There are also parts of Baltimore that are simply gorgeous. I am lucky to have been able to raise my children in such an environment. I choose to live here and work to make my city better. I am not alone, and I see a long and productive road ahead. 

Lots of the places in/around Federal Hill that are selling for $500K+ used to be like that in the 70s.   Were you in the area when Baltimore sold lots of these places for $1, and then gave the occupants low-interest refurbishment loans w/the caveat that they had to live in 'em for 5 years?   

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Lots of the places in/around Federal Hill that are selling for $500K+ used to be like that in the 70s.   Were you in the area when Baltimore sold lots of these places for $1, and then gave the occupants low-interest refurbishment loans w/the caveat that they had to live in 'em for 5 years?   

At that time, my family lived outside of Annapolis.  I was as aware of that program as a younger teen could be (ie: not very). 

Last October, the City Council adopted a resolution to create a new version of that program.  I have no idea where it stands, at this point, but I will find out.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

We all get the government we deserve

What did you do to deserve Trump?

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12 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

At that time, my family lived outside of Annapolis.  I was as aware of that program as a younger teen could be (ie: not very). 

Last October, the City Council adopted a resolution to create a new version of that program.  I have no idea where it stands, at this point, but I will find out.


Thanks for the link - looks like the consensus is that the old program didn't provide as man long-term/permanent residents as desired, and that there are current programs to place empty, blighted properties into the hands of owners who have the desire and wherewithal to refurbish them. 

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

Like the 3 million more that voted for Clinton, than did for Trump!!

I'm sure not a single vote for Thump came from Baltimore.  I even doubt he was on the ballot there considering the corruption.

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1 hour ago, kmacdonald said:

I'm sure not a single vote for Thump came from Baltimore.  I even doubt he was on the ballot there considering the corruption.

The folks in my neighborhood who proudly sported Trump 2016 on their bumpers have quietly removed them and change the subject when his name is raised in conversation.

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The best you can hope for is the Fed's take over the city governence.  Short of that there is little hope.

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15 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

The best you can hope for is the Fed's take over the city governence.  Short of that there is little hope.

A big change is certainly needed.  Just not sure "the Feds" will be up to the task.

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18 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

The best you can hope for is the Fed's take over the city governence.  Short of that there is little hope.

FYI - this was done in the 1860s and Federal Hill was where they set up the cannons.

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21 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

FYI - this was done in the 1860s and Federal Hill was where they set up the cannons.

Let's hope the second time works out better.

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25 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

A big change is certainly needed.  Just not sure "the Feds" will be up to the task.

Good point.

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53 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

A big change is certainly needed.  Just not sure "the Feds" will be up to the task.

Isn't your Republican governor on the case?

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7 minutes ago, Dog said:

Isn't your Republican governor on the case?

I am certain he will claim to be. But, this far, he has done little to nothing for my city. Well, other than to bad mouth it. 

He did show up after the riots to score political points against the former Mayor. Since then, nada. 

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7 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I am certain he will claim to be. But, this far, he has done little to nothing for my city. Well, other than to bad mouth it. 

He did show up after the riots to score political points against the former Mayor. Since then, nada. 

In all sincerity Bus - what would you expect Gov Hogan to say/do about local malfeasance in Baltimore city?  They keep electing these goofs to the Mayor's office, Chief of Police, City Council - and unless you advocate Hogan coming in and declaring some kind of de-facto takeover?  How does he fix it?  More money funneled thru the Mayor's Office? 

Look brudda - I'm not busting your stones on this, and if you've got an idea - I'd be tickled to hear it.  I *like* Baltimore - I don't like a lot of what's been going on there in the past 15-20 years, but, unless the locals are willing to allow someone from the outside to come in and kick over the apple cart?  The fix will have to come from within. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Dog said:

Isn't your Republican governor on the case?

Why would he help the racists there?  If you're not black they won't vote for you.  Pigs in shit are better off but they are happy with the way it is.  Gang warfare, corruption, and crime------it's a way of life there.

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47 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

In all sincerity Bus - what would you expect Gov Hogan to say/do about local malfeasance in Baltimore city?  They keep electing these goofs to the Mayor's office, Chief of Police, City Council - and unless you advocate Hogan coming in and declaring some kind of de-facto takeover?  How does he fix it?  More money funneled thru the Mayor's Office? 

Look brudda - I'm not busting your stones on this, and if you've got an idea - I'd be tickled to hear it.  I *like* Baltimore - I don't like a lot of what's been going on there in the past 15-20 years, but, unless the locals are willing to allow someone from the outside to come in and kick over the apple cart?  The fix will have to come from within. 

I'd like a Governor who genuinely cares about the people of Baltimore, regardless of whether they voted for him. 

Once Hogan was elected, it was clear there would be retribution for the non-support he received.  He took what was a mediocre transit system and fucked it up.  MTA did a comprehensive study of where mass transit is most needed.  They plotted common routes between where people live and where they work.  Governor Hogan discounted their work and unveiled the "LINK" system, which does anything but what the name implies.  Buses run along routes chosen at (what appears to be random) on which ridership continues to drop.  At community forums, we (I was there) were told the meeting was promised but they would not take our concerns into account. 

Additionally, he killed the "Red Line", which would have done a great job linking the east and west sides.  Our current Light Rail is great if you live in Hunt Valley and want to go to Camden Yards/M&T Bank Stadium.  It doesn't go anywhere near the Harbor and forget about Little Italy, Harbor East, or Patterson Park.  

He took that money earmarked for the Red line and widened roads on the Eastern Shore to make it easier to get to Ocean City.  Trust me, that ease of congestion is not what most Baltimoreans were hoping for.  Hell, when he unveiled his transportation funding, he included a map on which Baltimore City does not even exist.

That's a quick primer on his actions toward Baltimore.There are other examples in which he has turned a blind eye to citizens of Maryland who happened to not support him.  In that way, he is very much acting like President Trump.

Yes, the city leadership has sucked for some time.  Contrary to what kmac wants you to believe, it ain't all black folks fucking it up.  He is sadly uninformed.  Plenty of white folks have contributed to the decline.

 

bal-hogan-map-without-baltimore-20150625.jpg

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Baltimore is the biggest, most disproportionate drain on Maryland resources you could possibly imagine.  Further massive cuts are in order.  Its time for Baltimore to sink or swim on their own.  

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6 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Baltimore is the biggest, most disproportionate drain on Maryland resources you could possibly imagine.  Further massive cuts are in order.  Its time for Baltimore to sink or swim on their own.  

You know you want to insert a reference to niggers in that statement.

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59 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

They will but I worry about the cumulative effect. Be it trailer trash, urban youth, or MS13, all are supposed to follow cops' instruction. I have to wonder, tho, if the black guy escalated the confrontation and took a beating knowing he'd get dough from the city?

We see this every day in the news.  I think real citizens play by societal rules.  If not, fuck em.  Thousands of Americans are arrested everyday without incident.

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

They will but I worry about the cumulative effect. Be it trailer trash, urban youth, or MS13, all are supposed to follow cops' instruction. I have to wonder, tho, if the black guy escalated the confrontation and took a beating knowing he'd get dough from the city?

We see this every day in the news.  I think real citizens play by societal rules.  If not, fuck em.  Thousands of Americans are arrested everyday without incident.

I highly doubt this guy made a conscious choice to take a beating on the hope he'd get money.

There are too many examples of people getting dead in altercations with fucked-up cops.  On video.  Especially people of color.

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9 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I highly doubt this guy made a conscious choice to take a beating on the hope he'd get money.

There are too many examples of people getting dead in altercations with fucked-up cops.  On video.  Especially people of color.

An associate of mine in high school actually did this in hopes of getting the cops in trouble. They kicked his ass, threw in jail for the night, and he had to explain to his parent why they had to come get him. He was white, so no danger of actually getting killed or maimed :rolleyes:

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I won't argue the main point BD, but many of the vids I see it appears the perp is resisting or running, not following lawful instructions. It is arguably better if the cops don't kill them but each and every one makes a conscious decision to disobey a lawful order. As noted above, the heat of the moment is not the best time to argue whether the order is justified.

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Just now, Blue Crab said:

I won't argue the main point BD, but many of the vids I see it appears the peep is resisting or running, not following lawful instructions. It is arguably better if the cops don't kill them but each and every one makes a conscious decision to disobey a lawful order. As noted above, the heat of the moment is not the best time to argue whether the order is justified.

Philando Castile, Sandra Bland, Alton Sterling, and others would disagree about "many of the vids".  But, they can't.  They're dead.

A colleague, 15 year veteran teacher, married with 2 children, educated at Johns Hopkins University, who happens to be black, shared how scary it is to be pulled over.  Take the time to ask someone of color whether they feel safe around police.  It's rather sobering to think how a portion of our fellow citizens genuinely fear for their lives when involved in any interaction with law enforcement.

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20 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I won't argue the main point BD, but many of the vids I see it appears the perp is resisting or running, not following lawful instructions. It is arguably better if the cops don't kill them but each and every one makes a conscious decision to disobey a lawful order. As noted above, the heat of the moment is not the best time to argue whether the order is justified.

Uh huh

So you're in favor of petty gov't officials literally holding the power of death over you, if you don't comply with their orders fast enough?

-DSK

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I know a few folks and I've heard it all before. Like many things, a couple of bad folks ruin stuff for others. I maintain if you act.like a lawful citizen, cops' attitudes would slowly change.

3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Uh huh

So you're in favor of petty gov't officials literally holding the power of death over you, if you don't comply with their orders fast enough?

-DSK

Well  Doug, it's hard to hit a running guy accurately. Don't run and stay alive. Seems simple enough.

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I kinda amazed but not amused at the Mexican cocaine bust yesterday where the mules drove the boat on the beach with the cops in the copter. I expected them to be shot. 

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4 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:
10 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So you're in favor of petty gov't officials literally holding the power of death over you, if you don't comply with their orders fast enough?

Well  Doug, it's hard to hit a running guy accurately. Don't run and stay alive. Seems simple enough.

Maybe that's why the cop in these incidents pops off five or six caps?

What's your explanation for Philando Castile, the guy who was shot sitting calmly in his car, after telling the police officer he was licensed and carrying?

This happened some years ago in our town: a bunch of plainclothes cops, assisted by state "investigators" also in plainclothes, were making a drug bust. With a warrant, they broke down the suspects door. The suspect called out to them from the next room that he was armed and that he'd shoot if they didn't leave immediately, and that he was calling the cops. Instead of identifying themselves as police, they opened fire and missed. He opened fire and shot two of them, not fatally, but in doing so he was exposed to their return fire and they killed him. It turned out they had the wrong address. I've heard of similar instances playing out in other places.

Without police (and other state/Fed agents) being held to a standard of being found guilty of murder by a court, there is no reason for them to feel accountable. Is there ANY circumstance wherein a cop shooting a citizen is wrong, IYHO?

-DSK

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 I thought the guy was compliant enough. Cop fucked up. They have to be better than that.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Maybe that's why the cop in these incidents pops off five or six caps?

What's your explanation for Philando Castile, the guy who was shot sitting calmly in his car, after telling the police officer he was licensed and carrying?

This happened some years ago in our town: a bunch of plainclothes cops, assisted by state "investigators" also in plainclothes, were making a drug bust. With a warrant, they broke down the suspects door. The suspect called out to them from the next room that he was armed and that he'd shoot if they didn't leave immediately, and that he was calling the cops. Instead of identifying themselves as police, they opened fire and missed. He opened fire and shot two of them, not fatally, but in doing so he was exposed to their return fire and they killed him. It turned out they had the wrong address. I've heard of similar instances playing out in other places.

Without police (and other state/Fed agents) being held to a standard of being found guilty of murder by a court, there is no reason for them to feel accountable. Is there ANY circumstance wherein a cop shooting a citizen is wrong, IYHO?

-DSK

Hell yeah. These guys should have waited for the locals to arrive. Another easy double play.

But murder? No way. Certainly no intent. On the job, fully amped,... no reasonable jury finds murder. Prison time for sure. Murder? Nah.

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1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

This happened some years ago in our town: a bunch of plainclothes cops, assisted by state "investigators" also in plainclothes, were making a drug bust. With a warrant, they broke down the suspects door. The suspect called out to them from the next room that he was armed and that he'd shoot if they didn't leave immediately, and that he was calling the cops. Instead of identifying themselves as police, they opened fire and missed. He opened fire and shot two of them, not fatally, but in doing so he was exposed to their return fire and they killed him. It turned out they had the wrong address. I've heard of similar instances playing out in other places.

Without police (and other state/Fed agents) being held to a standard of being found guilty of murder by a court, there is no reason for them to feel accountable. Is there ANY circumstance wherein a cop shooting a citizen is wrong, IYHO?

Hell yeah. These guys should have waited for the locals to arrive. Another easy double play.

But murder? No way. Certainly no intent. On the job, fully amped,... no reasonable jury finds murder. Prison time for sure. Murder? Nah.

 

Since they loaded their guns before breaking down the door, I'd call it first-degree murder. They went in with the intention of being able to shoot somebody, and that's exactly what they did. They did not identify themselves as police officers, which is absolutely a primary duty on their part

Not checking the address is just so incredibly stupid and negligent that I'd have been happy to see officers who fired their weapons in this case get the chair. No loss to society at all, and it would make all the rest think.

What good is the right to defend your home, if people dressed as thugs and acting like thugs break down your door and you are not allowed to use your defense?

We've seen several cases that were in a big grey area about cops shooting citizens. We've also seen at least one or two cases that were absolutely not grey at all. But until courts come down on the side of protecting citizens against police, we have no rights that mean anything.

-DSK

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6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Since they loaded their guns before breaking down the door, I'd call it first-degree murder. They went in with the intention of being able to shoot somebody, and that's exactly what they did. They did not identify themselves as police officers, which is absolutely a primary duty on their part

Not checking the address is just so incredibly stupid and negligent that I'd have been happy to see officers who fired their weapons in this case get the chair. No loss to society at all, and it would make all the rest think.

What good is the right to defend your home, if people dressed as thugs and acting like thugs break down your door and you are not allowed to use your defense?

We've seen several cases that were in a big grey area about cops shooting citizens. We've also seen at least one or two cases that were absolutely not grey at all. But until courts come down on the side of protecting citizens against police, we have no rights that mean anything.

-DSK

That constitutes 1st degree murder in your estimation?  You're right, they SHOULD have announced themselves as police - but, would you expect them to bust open the door and then decide after taking fire that they might want to load and draw their weapons?   The situation is horrible, and the cops were wrong, but, your 1st sentence doesn't make any sense.  

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That constitutes 1st degree murder in your estimation?  You're right, they SHOULD have announced themselves as police - but, would you expect them to bust open the door and then decide after taking fire that they might want to load and draw their weapons?   The situation is horrible, and the cops were wrong, but, your 1st sentence doesn't make any sense.  

How wrong do they have to be?

They killed a completely innocent, completely random person, who bore NO fault in the situation at all.

If you or I did this, what penalty would we suffer?

There was a whole chain of events at which the police could have stopped at ANY point, resulting in not killing them. The cumulation of several mistakes, and several decisions made to NOT stop or step back, made it equivalent to murder IMHO.

-DSK

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

How wrong do they have to be?

They killed a completely innocent, completely random person, who bore NO fault in the situation at all.

If you or I did this, what penalty would we suffer?

There was a whole chain of events at which the police could have stopped at ANY point, resulting in not killing them. The cumulation of several mistakes, and several decisions made to NOT stop or step back, made it equivalent to murder IMHO.

-DSK

That's a bit different than your earlier assertion - and we would be crucified, as should the people in the decision chain who caused that man's death.  Police do and should be afforded a great deal of deference, but, only to the point that their behavior is in accordance with established procedures.  When they strat beyond those limits?  Not only have they erred professionally, but, they have violated the public trust, and that's a standard that we can't afford to relax. 

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

Hell yeah. These guys should have waited for the locals to arrive. Another easy double play.

But murder? No way. Certainly no intent. On the job, fully amped,... no reasonable jury finds murder. Prison time for sure. Murder? Nah.

The more beers I've had the more I don't think these guys go to jail. It's a big FU, the city is liable for wrongful death. Guys lose a rank and will be much better in the future.

Experience.

It's hard to get.

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's a bit different than your earlier assertion - and we would be crucified, as should the people in the decision chain who caused that man's death.  Police do and should be afforded a great deal of deference, but, only to the point that their behavior is in accordance with established procedures.  When they strat beyond those limits?  Not only have they erred professionally, but, they have violated the public trust, and that's a standard that we can't afford to relax.  

Totally agree on violation of the public trust.

Law enforcement..... and many other gov't offices.... have to maintain either a very high professional standard, or not be tolerated. Same as doctors or airline pilots. Deadly risk requires exceptional duty of care.

 

16 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

The more beers I've had the more I don't think these guys go to jail. It's a big FU, the city is liable for wrongful death. Guys lose a rank and will be much better in the future.

Experience.

It's hard to get.

So, you'd shrug it off as just another day if one of your family got killed by careless police acting stupidly and brutally? Like, how else are the cops gonna get experience?

-DSK

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11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Totally agree on violation of the public trust.

Law enforcement..... and many other gov't offices.... have to maintain either a very high professional standard, or not be tolerated. Same as doctors or airline pilots. Deadly risk requires exceptional duty of care.

 

So, you'd shrug it off as just another day if one of your family got killed by careless police acting stupidly and brutally? Like, how else are the cops gonna get experience?

-DSK

I'd say minimum loss of job, loss of pension if any, permanent ban from re-employment in any role, public or private, that involves carrying a firearm as part of the job. All parties immediately involved, their immediate supervisor and *their* supervisor. Make the shit flow uphill.

In NSW there used to be a number of cops referred to by their colleagues as 'the rubber gun squad' because they'd demonstrated appalling judgement, drunkenness or similar WRT handling firearms.

FKT

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15 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Totally agree on violation of the public trust.

Law enforcement..... and many other gov't offices.... have to maintain either a very high professional standard, or not be tolerated. Same as doctors or airline pilots. Deadly risk requires exceptional duty of care.

 

So, you'd shrug it off as just another day if one of your family got killed by careless police acting stupidly and brutally? Like, how else are the cops gonna get experience?

-DSK

Well, on reflection, go ahead and fire them all for obeying an unlawful order to proceed if the facts are as stated. Presumably there is reliable testimony that they didn't identify themselves on so on. Then the dept gets to hire some more rookies and hope for better outcomes.

The fly is that a) how many folks who actually want those jobs are available, and b) how to hold them to standards of care that took years of experience on the part of physicians and airline pilots at police officer pay?

Everybody looks great all kitted out at the range but when the spit hits the fan? Even if pds hired only combat vets it's still a crapshoot.

Hard cases make bad law.

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9 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Well, on reflection, go ahead and fire them all for obeying an unlawful order to proceed if the facts are as stated. Presumably there is reliable testimony that they didn't identify themselves on so on. Then the dept gets to hire some more rookies and hope for better outcomes.

The fly is that a) how many folks who actually want those jobs are available, and b) how to hold them to standards of care that took years of experience on the part of physicians and airline pilots at police officer pay?

Everybody looks great all kitted out at the range but when the spit hits the fan? Even if pds hired only combat vets it's still a crapshoot.

Hard cases make bad law.

And not addressing fuck-ups and ensuring there are severe consequences guarantees more of the same. Breaking into the wrong house and killing the occupant isn't just business as usual in any civilised country.

If a manager got things so badly wrong and ignored available information to the point of getting staff killed or injured, they'd be busted so badly by the OH&S people that they'd never see daylight again. I used to be liable for a fine of up to $50K over preventable accidents simply because I was the section manager. Let me tell you, this concentrates the mind on *avoiding* accidents not sweeping them under the carpet.

FKT

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