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freewheelin

Buying a boat without a broker?

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I made an offer on a boat that's been accepter, survey at the end of the week. If all goes good, then what? This is person to person, and cash. What paperwork is involved in the sale, transferring the title, re-registering, etc? Boat is in CT - I am in NY.

Also, is there sales tax involved?

(tried googling, couldn't find anything useful)

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8 minutes ago, ribber said:

edit: wait, you've accepted an offer - you're *not* the buyer, you're the seller, in NY, selling a CT boat?  Nevermind, I can't figure that one out.

thank you. and no, sorry, poor phrasing. I am the buyer.

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How much is at risk?  State registered or documented?  Clear title?

Simple sell and buy contract is easy. Google one. Brokers help you find a boat and help walk the deal to closing. In that, they are valuable. For a boat you found and can deal with a bit of paper, not required. 

Talk to NY about what paper and taxes are required.  If you are going to keep it in Jersey and state register it, Jersey rules will normally apply.  Basic rule with exceptions is the boat will normally be registered and taxed where it is kept and used. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Get a survey, unless it's worth less than your entertainment budget.

At times I wonder if some posters bother to read the OP

 

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Make sure you get a survey

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32 minutes ago, Rushman said:

At times I wonder if some posters bother to read the OP

 

He 100% didn’t read the OP 

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Survey, title search .

be careful of any fine print .

surveyors are skilled and have a sharp eye for fine print or big waves that may swamp you 

 

ask your local state authority for advice and paperwork ..  

Ask a lawyer if you see any complications or are unclear what you are signing 

in general yacht brokers are folks who cant find a job in the real world or who are just too lazy to get a job .

they have no special knowledge 

they do have a voracious appetite for money...your money, everyones money 

 

be alert 

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8 hours ago, freewheelin said:

I made an offer on a boat that's been accepter, survey at the end of the week. If all goes good, then what? This is person to person, and cash. What paperwork is involved in the sale, transferring the title, re-registering, etc? Boat is in CT - I am in NY.

Also, is there sales tax involved?

(tried googling, couldn't find anything useful)

If all goes well  and you do buy it... then you get a bill of sale..with a sales price on it , a Signed Title  ( which also has a sales price on it somewhere)then you will pay the sales tax when change the title to your name then  and pay another fee when you re-register  it in your name as well. I'm not in the states anymore but as far as I remember I think you can register it in another place , like Delaware , and save on the tax thing. but I'm not sure..another way to go is to  Document it with the CG you used to be able to avoid the yearly Reg fees that way but now if the boat stays in state for a certain amount of time ( 60 days depending on the state)   without going out then you must also reg in that state. The title fee is separate from registration fee.. basically not much different from a car ect...reg in the state you live or use it and you must transfer the title from outa state to your resident state  or  the state the boats going to be in for an extended period of time  ( also it it sometimes is required to get the bill of sale notarized but I didn't see it  on the form info for NY.. just go to DMV and ask )   .. check here for more info ...    # 2 page  sect. 2.

If the boat was purchased USED and was PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED in New York State or in another state

 https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/mv821b.pdf 

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Get the signed Title, and print and complete these forms and take them with you when you buy it

http://dmv.ny.gov/forms/mv82b.pdf

Have the guy sign this one.. for the Bill of Sale

 http://dmv.ny.gov/forms/dtf802.pdf

Take all that to DMV  you can check here for the fees

https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/boat-registration.php#New-York-Boat-Title-Registration-Fees

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What’s the boat? We’ve been with you on this search long enough that we deserve to know what you’re getting us into. There’s plenty of room in this thread to start a good shit fight over your lousy choice too!

CD94ACD6-AD28-4142-B8E0-CA7CF019B7BE.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

What’s the boat? We’ve been with you on this search long enough that we deserve to know what you’re getting us into. There’s plenty of room in this thread to start a good shit fight over your lousy choice too!

Well, I was planning to wait until the survey results to loop in everyone who has been helping. Bad survey means I am still in the hunt. But the offer is on a 87 Beneteau First 305.

.....and go....

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3 hours ago, captpiratedog said:

Get the signed Title, and print and complete these forms and take them with you when you buy it

http://dmv.ny.gov/forms/mv82b.pdf

Have the guy sign this one.. for the Bill of Sale

 http://dmv.ny.gov/forms/dtf802.pdf

Take all that to DMV  you can check here for the fees

https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/boat-registration.php#New-York-Boat-Title-Registration-Fees

thank you, this is really helpful

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12 hours ago, freewheelin said:

I made an offer on a boat that's been accepter, survey at the end of the week. If all goes good, then what? This is person to person, and cash. What paperwork is involved in the sale, transferring the title, re-registering, etc? Boat is in CT - I am in NY.

Also, is there sales tax involved?

(tried googling, couldn't find anything useful)

if the boat is going to be documented, make sure you get one of these as well:

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/NVDC/CG-1340_Bill_of_Sale.pdf?ver=2017-05-09-113141-317

 

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Get a survey, unless it's worth less than your entertainment budget.

sadly, the cost of the survey & sea trial just about matched my entertainment budget. that's a lot of off brand pretzels and light beer though...

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That’s not a bad boat for the price and is mostly nice condition. The stove looks pretty beat and the headliner problem in the lazarette can be fixed after the leak is sealed. Other than that, if the survey turns out well for the keel and rudder stock, it shows like a well maintained older salt water boat for this area.

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I bought my boat sans broker directly from the owner.  A survey was required because of a bank loan.  The boat was CG documented so title wasn't an issue and there were no liens on the boat.  Paperwork was completed by both parties in person at the bank.  The  only glitches were whether the cookware was included, and originally the bank required me to "provide certification that navigation lights  are approved by the Coast Guard" (?).  When asked in particular what it was they wanted, they backpedaled.  Oh, and the owner's wife cried at the signing; they'ed owned the boat for 17 years, kinda uncomfortable scene.

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

That’s not a bad boat for the price and is mostly nice condition. The stove looks pretty beat and the headliner problem in the lazarette can be fixed after the leak is sealed. Other than that, if the survey turns out well for the keel and rudder stock, it shows like a well maintained older salt water boat for this area.

Thanks for the support. We liked the boat, and can live with the things you mentioned. It seemed to check all of our boxes, and was my wife's standout favorite (surprisingly as it had more cosmetic issues than others). So we are hoping for a solid survey.

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18 minutes ago, axolotl said:

Oh, and the owner's wife cried at the signing; they'ed owned the boat for 17 years, kinda uncomfortable scene.

yikes...

lucky for us, there will be no banks involved - it will be cash. Oh and the seller already bought a 36.7, so no crying either

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A haul and a strong survey with a real nitpicker will reduce the price to cover the effort. Don't fall in love and be prepared to walk away. 

One more thing, let the owner of the boat let you sit on the boat for 1 hour by your self before you hand over the check or sign the title. Really take your time sitting in the cockpit, in the saloon and foredeck. Own that boat for the time in your mind - take it everywhere you would want to go, imagine you with your significant other on it, cruising or racing with your friends. If you are not thrilled more after a hour,  walk away with no regrets. That simple mental/emotional action will be as nearly as much fun as owning the damn thing.

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You can use CG bill of sale (available on line) even if boat is not documented. Must use if boat is documented. Get more than one copy,  including notarized seller's signature.

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Without a survey you are not going to get insurance on a boat of that age.

PM me with questions.

 

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49 minutes ago, dopo said:

Without a survey you are not going to get insurance on a boat of that age.

PM me with questions.

 

I am 100% getting a survey and sea trial. In fact, it is scheduled tomorrow.

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4 hours ago, freewheelin said:

I am 100% getting a survey and sea trial. In fact, it is scheduled tomorrow.

That's all well and good, but you need to get a survey!

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On 4/18/2018 at 12:25 AM, VWAP said:

Make sure you get a survey

I don't forget to get a survey 

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9 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

Any opinions out there on whether or not to get a survey?

yes I have one 

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You should never buy a boat. They're nothing but trouble.

:P

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No way in hell you should get a survey. Marine surveyors are just pernickety old coots who want to get in the way or your  making the worst financial decision of your life.

It’s all “the deck’s soft”, and “ the rigging’s destranding” and “the keel bolts are loose and rusty”. Professional wet blankets, the lot of them.

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Forget the survey. If you don't know enough about boats to do your own survey then you are not competent to own a boat.

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Forget the survey. If you don't know enough about boats to do your own survey then you are not competent to own a boat.

Have you ever owned a boat before? you pretty much need a survey to get insurance on a boat. Plus its also good to have someone who isn't emotionally involved to give the boat a once over. I have always had my brother or a friend look at any boat I was considering and have them give me their honest opinion.

Freewheelin-

Take some pictures and let us know how it goes. The Beneteau 305 is a nice looking boat. Not the fastest bot in the fleet but I hear they sail well and come into their own when the wind picks up. Cabin looks like a 35' boat. Hope all goes well. 

If the Survey and sea trial is good, getting the registration signed and a bill of sale signed is enough to get the boat registered back in NY. Ask to see the owners license and match it to the registration. I usually take a picture with my phone of their license - no one has objected to me doing that yet. 

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2 hours ago, USA 5184 said:

Have you ever owned a boat before? you pretty much need a survey to get insurance on a boat. Plus its also good to have someone who isn't emotionally involved to give the boat a once over. I have always had my brother or a friend look at any boat I was considering and have them give me their honest opinion.

Freewheelin-

Take some pictures and let us know how it goes. The Beneteau 305 is a nice looking boat. Not the fastest bot in the fleet but I hear they sail well and come into their own when the wind picks up. Cabin looks like a 35' boat. Hope all goes well. 

If the Survey and sea trial is good, getting the registration signed and a bill of sale signed is enough to get the boat registered back in NY. Ask to see the owners license and match it to the registration. I usually take a picture with my phone of their license - no one has objected to me doing that yet. 

Above is the best advice I have read on this thread. After the survey buyers remorse will set in, as long as you are comfortable with understanding where you are stepping in on the maintenance schedule you will be fine. My two cents buy it, maintain it, and enjoy the priceless times with family, friends.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dude said:

Above is the best advice I have read on this thread. After the survey buyers remorse will set in, as long as you are comfortable with understanding where you are stepping in on the maintenance schedule you will be fine. My two cents buy it, maintain it, and enjoy the priceless times with family, friends.

 

Thanks Dude! Also, I forgot about the engine. Make sure you do your homework on the engine and make sure parts are still available. 

After my J/24 & J/29 (both outboards) I decided I  no longer wanted to reach over the transom to start the engine so the criteria for the next boat was an inboard diesel engine. I didn't do my homework and bought a boat with a Perkins 4-107 diesel. Big Mistake - I drove myself crazy trying to find parts for it and was a big reason why I decided to sell the boat. 

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4 minutes ago, USA 5184 said:

Thanks Dude! Also, I forgot about the engine. Make sure you do your homework on the engine and make sure parts are still available. 

After my J/24 & J/29 (both outboards) I decided I  no longer wanted to reach over the transom to start the engine so the criteria for the next boat was an inboard diesel engine. I didn't do my homework and bought a boat with a Perkins 4-107 diesel. Big Mistake - I drove myself crazy trying to find parts for it and was a big reason why I decided to sell the boat. 

Little difficult getting to that raw water pump, leaked a little to much oil for you? Perkins 107's great engines for their time.

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12 minutes ago, Dude said:

Little difficult getting to that raw water pump, leaked a little to much oil for you? Perkins 107's great engines for their time.

YES and YES! Water pump was shit, couldn't keep oil in the engine and couldn't keep coolant out the engine! Gotta say though, it started first try every time. Had 3,000 hours on the clock.

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55 minutes ago, Dude said:
1 hour ago, USA 5184 said:

Thanks Dude! Also, I forgot about the engine. Make sure you do your homework on the engine and make sure parts are still available. 

After my J/24 & J/29 (both outboards) I decided I  no longer wanted to reach over the transom to start the engine so the criteria for the next boat was an inboard diesel engine. I didn't do my homework and bought a boat with a Perkins 4-107 diesel. Big Mistake - I drove myself crazy trying to find parts for it and was a big reason why I decided to sell the boat. 

Little difficult getting to that raw water pump, leaked a little to much oil for you? Perkins 107's great engines for their time.

Yeah, see? If you'd gotten a survey, this would not have been a problem.

:P

to freewheelin: congrats, hope it goes well. Buying a boat is not rocket science although the state seems to have a vested interest in keeping the paperwork tedious and obscure so that brokers have job security. Title search can be a life saver. Personally I would get two Bills of Sale, notarize both, and keep one in the safe deposit box always.

I raced a Benny 305 for a while (didn't own it), I thought it was a really nice boat. Liked to drive hard (tiller) but took a chop quite well. Seemed roomy and comfy down below for a 32 footer

FB- Doug

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I sold a boat years ago like this (2 private parties) and hired a broker to handle the paper work. Paid him a minuscule fee. 

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I know an excellent Surveyor, based in Essex, CT; but covers a wide territory, should you need one.

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7 hours ago, billy backstay said:

I know an excellent Surveyor, based in Essex, CT; but covers a wide territory, should you need one.

Based on our advice he's not bothering with a survey.

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12 hours ago, USA 5184 said:

Have you ever owned a boat before? you pretty much need a survey to get insurance on a boat. Plus its also good to have someone who isn't emotionally involved to give the boat a once over. I have always had my brother or a friend look at any boat I was considering and have them give me their honest opinion.

Freewheelin-

Take some pictures and let us know how it goes. The Beneteau 305 is a nice looking boat. Not the fastest bot in the fleet but I hear they sail well and come into their own when the wind picks up. Cabin looks like a 35' boat. Hope all goes well. 

If the Survey and sea trial is good, getting the registration signed and a bill of sale signed is enough to get the boat registered back in NY. Ask to see the owners license and match it to the registration. I usually take a picture with my phone of their license - no one has objected to me doing that yet. 

Sorry, I neglected the correct font since everyone was making smartass survey comments.

And yes, I've owned a boat or two over the past 40 years and have always done my own surveys.

I've never had trouble getting insurance without a pro survey - as long as the insured level is fairly low.

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If the OP decides to do a survey I think we all need to see the survey so we can make uninformed, illogical and needlessly flip/condescending remarks about the surveyor, the boat and the OP.

Who wants to volunteer to bring Trump into it?

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14 hours ago, monsoon said:

Based on our advice he's not bothering with a survey.

 

Who was the author of: "A Fool and his money, soon go separate ways"??

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22 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Little difficult getting to that raw water pump, leaked a little to much oil for you? Perkins 107's great engines for their time.

Yeah, see? If you'd gotten a survey, this would not have been a problem.

:P

to freewheelin: congrats, hope it goes well. Buying a boat is not rocket science although the state seems to have a vested interest in keeping the paperwork tedious and obscure so that brokers have job security. Title search can be a life saver. Personally I would get two Bills of Sale, notarize both, and keep one in the safe deposit box always.

I raced a Benny 305 for a while (didn't own it), I thought it was a really nice boat. Liked to drive hard (tiller) but took a chop quite well. Seemed roomy and comfy down below for a 32 footer

FB- Doug

4
4

The OP questioned if a yacht broker was needed? A broker would have explained the maintenance of the Perkins 107, should the buyer wanted to proceed the broker would recommend a Perkins mechanic to complete an engine inspection even before a survey.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

Who was the author of: "A Fool and his money, soon go separate ways"??

Sorry, I ran out of purple font.

Or you could try keeping up.

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On 4/17/2018 at 9:22 PM, Rushman said:

At times I wonder if some posters bother to read the OP

I don't wonder. Especially on a post like that one. People are fools, and they all think they're right.

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10 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

I don't wonder. Especially on a post like that one. People are fools, and they all think they're right.

Not all are fools.

 

Some, like you, are big fat looserheads.

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Reading about Jammer calling people fools was a great laugh to start my day with. :lol:

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2 hours ago, monsoon said:

Some, like you, are big fat looserheads.

I think you meant "loserheads" with one "o".

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You're not from around here are you?

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1 hour ago, Parma said:

I think you meant "loserheads" with one "o".

Either way works for me, but, yeah.

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On 4/22/2018 at 10:19 AM, monsoon said:

Not all are fools.

 

Some, like you, are big fat looserheads.

 

I read somewhere that User Jammer Six, is a well known troll on multiple forums, allegedly!!!

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

I read somewhere that User Jammer Six, is a well known troll on multiple forums, allegedly!!!

And a fucking idiot.

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He's one of the most ignored posters on this site.

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9 hours ago, zimm said:

I got lost in the survey comments.  Did the OP buy the boat?  Where's the pics?

It is a cliffhanger: did he do the survey or not? ... you will find out in season 2

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11 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

It is a cliffhanger: did he do the survey or not? ... you will find out in season 2

or become a Patreon, and find out before everyone else...

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21 hours ago, zimm said:

I got lost in the survey comments.  Did the OP buy the boat?  Where's the pics?

The survey turned out great. Better than we expected. So we moved forward and bought the boat over the weekend. Thanks for all the advice, it made the process easy. We sailed it down Sunday. Cold but Sunny - light conditions. We had a great day! We can't wait to get back out on the water and get to know the boats better. Pics below:

 

IMG_5383.JPG

IMG_5380.JPG

IMG_5391.JPG

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Looks like another satisfied customer. What is the boat? Any pics from off the boat?

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On 4/20/2018 at 12:38 AM, SloopJonB said:

Forget the survey. If you don't know enough about boats to do your own survey then you are not competent to own a boat.

oh, crap. I didn't see this. now I own a boat. I already got the survey,  so now I see that I am not competent enough to own one. I really stepped in it now. will they take the boat away?

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4 hours ago, freewheelin said:

oh, crap. I didn't see this. now I own a boat. I already got the survey,  so now I see that I am not competent enough to own one. I really stepped in it now. will they take the boat away?

i don't know but i do reccomend a survey.

you should get one.

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13 minutes ago, Parma said:

i don't know but i do reccomend a survey.

you should get one.

 

WTF??  He said that he had it surveyed!!!

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18 hours ago, freewheelin said:

oh, crap. I didn't see this. now I own a boat. I already got the survey,  so now I see that I am not competent enough to own one. I really stepped in it now. will they take the boat away?

Hey, nice boat. More photos, when you get a chance.

Don't worry, I've been down your path (though my first boat was a lot more shitty than yours).  Competence comes with study and practice.  You'll get 5-foot-itis in about 5 years and upgrade to something bigger. By then, you'll know how to pre-survey boats before you submit an offer or hire a pro surveyor.

My boats have all been so cheap that I've never hired a surveyor. I just crawled around in them myself as my knowledge grew, and I bring along experienced friends to back me up. Once the purchase price reaches a certain amount, a professional survey is definitely wise.

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Congrats on buying the boat.  Glad it turned out well.

You still should have gotten a survey!

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39 minutes ago, monsoon said:

 

You still should have gotten a survey!

+1

word

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