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Shortforbob

Will Cohen Flip?

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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/18/trump-michael-cohen-flip-536926

Cohen is supposedly the loyal retainer who would "take a bullet" for his client Trump.

So when Trump's WH say

"The White House appears to be creating some distance from Cohen. White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters earlier this week that though Trump and Cohen have “still got some ongoing things,” the president “has a large number of attorneys, as you know.”

and if Cohen may be facing 5,10,15 years..How loyal will he stay?

 

Cohen flipping “would be Trump’s worst nightmare,” said John Dean, the former White House counsel whose cooperation with Watergate prosecutors helped lead to President Richard Nixon’s resignation in 1974.

“It would be as stunning and life-disrupting a surprise as his winning the presidency,” Dean added. “And if there is any prosecutor’s office in the USA that can flip Cohen, it is the Southern District of New York.”

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14 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/18/trump-michael-cohen-flip-536926

Cohen is supposedly the loyal retainer who would "take a bullet" for his client Trump.

So when Trump's WH say

"The White House appears to be creating some distance from Cohen. White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters earlier this week that though Trump and Cohen have “still got some ongoing things,” the president “has a large number of attorneys, as you know.”

and if Cohen may be facing 5,10,15 years..How loyal will he stay?

 

Cohen flipping “would be Trump’s worst nightmare,” said John Dean, the former White House counsel whose cooperation with Watergate prosecutors helped lead to President Richard Nixon’s resignation in 1974.

“It would be as stunning and life-disrupting a surprise as his winning the presidency,” Dean added. “And if there is any prosecutor’s office in the USA that can flip Cohen, it is the Southern District of New York.”

If he ends up facing state charges from which The Most Innocent Man in New York cannot save him, like the bank or wire fraud charges mentioned re the search(es), yeah. 

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9 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

If he ends up facing state charges from which The Most Innocent Man in New York cannot save him, like the bank or wire fraud charges mentioned re the search(es), yeah. 

So do feds and locals cooperate at that level.  Share info on a completely different federal case to get charges reduced on local Charges?  Just asking 

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7 minutes ago, hermetic said:

when was the last time someone got jail time for lying to a bank about how they used a home equity loan?

That assumes that Cohen was telling the truth about his source of funds. We do not know that is true.  He does not have the record of veracity that New York’s Most Truthful Man has. We also do not know whether that is what the FBI is investigating. 

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

So do feds and locals cooperate at that level.  Share info on a completely different federal case to get charges reduced on local Charges?  Just asking 

If the State AG has an investigation for which the feds have salient information, they can share it. 

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

If the State AG has an investigation for which the feds have salient information, they can share it. 

I get that this current case is from Mueller referring to NY.  I was asking if Cohen flipping means he gives details that impact Mueller’s investigation to get the potential NY state  charges you mentioned dropped or reduced.  

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16 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:
23 minutes ago, hermetic said:

when was the last time someone got jail time for lying to a bank about how they used a home equity loan?

That assumes that Cohen was telling the truth about his source of funds. We do not know that is true.  He does not have the record of veracity that New York’s Most Truthful Man has. We also do not know whether that is what the FBI is investigating. 

I agree.  a different source of funds / rubles would make a big difference

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12 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I get that this current case is from Mueller referring to NY.  I was asking if Cohen flipping means he gives details that impact Mueller’s investigation to get the potential NY state  charges you mentioned dropped or reduced.  

Oh yeah. He would agree to give law enforcement everything he knows. He’d have to do that with a proffer even before they make a deal for him to flip. Even then, he’ll be under pressure to deliver more (we haven’t heard much from Flynn lately...I wonder what he has given up), to get prosecutors to recommend light sentencing.

They would share all of that. 

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9 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Oh yeah. He would agree to give law enforcement everything he knows. He’d have to do that with a proffer even before they make a deal for him to flip. Even then, he’ll be under pressure to deliver more (we haven’t heard much from Flynn lately...I wonder what he has given up), to get prosecutors to recommend light sentencing.

They would share all of that. 

Thanks

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47 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Thanks

That’s the way it should be. My main concern would be double jeopardy, but as long as they don’t face the same charge in two different proceedings, that’s not an issue. 

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11 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That’s the way it should be. My main concern would be double jeopardy, but as long as they don’t face the same charge in two different proceedings, that’s not an issue. 

schnidermann and cuomo are working on that right now

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7 minutes ago, hermetic said:

schnidermann and cuomo are working on that right now

Not exactly. They are trying to make sure that people face single jeopardy in the event that potential witnesses are pardoned in an effort to keep them quiet and obstruct Justice. 

It’s a subtle nuance. 

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5 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Not exactly. They are trying to make sure that people face single jeopardy in the event that potential witnesses are pardoned in an effort to keep them quiet and obstruct Justice. 

It’s a subtle nuance. 

got it.  thanks

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29 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Not exactly. They are trying to make sure that people face single jeopardy in the event that potential witnesses are pardoned in an effort to keep them quiet and obstruct Justice. 

It’s a subtle nuance. 

Yes. Exactly. 

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Cohen seems to be working hard to stay out of jail. My guess is that he cops a plea and makes Trump's life more difficult. No sympathy for this.

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Just so you know, ANY of my friends can flip on me and I wouldn't go to jail.

 

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4 hours ago, hermetic said:

when was the last time someone got jail time for lying to a bank about how they used a home equity loan?

I think they got Al Capone on something similar, albeit with his taxes.

There was another case, about the discovery and excavation of a dinosaur fossil, in which the paleontologist filled out a form incorrectly.  He was sentenced to 3 years in federal prison.  It didn't help that he asked the judge to recuse himself for conflicts of interest, and as such was judged and prosecuted with extreme prejudice. (-Dinosaur 13)

Bottom line---To the general public, some crimes, while technically being crimes, are not very serious.  But if you piss off the wrong people, they will throw the book at you.

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5 hours ago, hermetic said:

when was the last time someone got jail time for lying to a bank about how they used a home equity loan?

I'm positive the Feds have much more than that. 

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1 hour ago, Mike G said:

Just so you know, ANY of my friends can flip on me and I wouldn't go to jail.

 

Ditto.

While in Trumps case, anybody who ever spoke to him could probably get him some jail time.

No matter what you may think of Trumps inner circle, they aren't stupid enough to think any loyalty would be returned unless there was something in it for Trump.

If he's facing serious jail time he'll flip.

They all will - no Gordon Liddy's in that bunch.

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NY Times -

QUOTATION OF THE DAY

"Donald goes out of his way to treat him like garbage."

ROGER J. STONE JR., President Trump’s informal and longest-serving political adviser, on Mr. Trump’s relationship with Michael D. Cohen, his longtime lawyer and fixer.

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On 4/19/2018 at 11:27 AM, Landloc said:

subtle nuance = oxymoron

Redundant.

 

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Tautology

 

The Study of Blackfish (Tautog Onitis)

image.png.985f5339e5600598e1601f4b9e513822.png

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On 4/19/2018 at 11:36 AM, Mike G said:

Just so you know, ANY of my friends can flip on me and I wouldn't go to jail.

 

As long as the bodies don’t float up— you’re fine

 

I say Cohn flips before mid-May.

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On Friday night Cohen said "Trump?  Hardly know him.  A coffee boy I think. A bit player as I remember."

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Looks to me like Trump knows Cohen has some dirt on him:

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
....non-existent “sources” and a drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael, a fine person with a wonderful family. Michael is a businessman for his own account/lawyer who I have always liked & respected. Most people will flip if the Government lets them out of trouble, even if....
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Donald J. Trump
 
 
 
·
4h
 
....it means lying or making up stories. Sorry, I don’t see Michael doing that despite the horrible Witch Hunt and the dishonest media!

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24 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

@realDonaldTrump

Most people will flip if the Government lets them out of trouble, even if....
 
....it means lying or making up stories. Sorry, I don’t see Michael doing that despite the horrible Witch Hunt and the dishonest media!

Funny how everyone including his allies are focused on whether Cohen will flip, no one is presuming that Trump is innocent. 

Trump is planting the seeds with his base of Cohen inventing crimes to get out of trouble, even he knows whats coming.

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2 hours ago, chinabald said:

How so? 

I think they had a misnomer there.....

 An Oxymoron is a pimple cream for idiots.

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No one is sure about Cohen flipping and now, it looks like Sessions will.

  1.  Seth Abramson Retweeted

    (1 of 3) Sessions is in a bad spot, as his Congressional testimony confirms he was talking sanctions policy with Kislyak in a secret meeting (9/8/16) after Russian crimes had been revealed to Team Trump. So him standing by Rosenstein carries an implicit message: I will cooperate.

    23 replies502 retweets1,223 likes
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    Retweet
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  2.  

    (3 of 3) Sessions can evade legal liability for perjury and conspiracy/aiding and abetting computer crimes by flipping on the president, which we should expect he'll do at the last possible moment leniency is available. So his threat to quit is an early signal of what's coming.

    35 replies248 retweets1,138 likes
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  3.  

    (2 of 3) Sessions falsely said he took meetings as an Armed Services Committee member we now know he took as chief foreign policy/national security advisor for Trump's campaign. And no other member of the Armed Services Committee reported meeting with Russia's ambassador in 2016.

    5 replies162 retweets733 likes
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     5
     
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4 hours ago, VhmSays said:

Funny how everyone including his allies are focused on whether Cohen will flip, no one is presuming that Trump is innocent. 

Trump is planting the seeds with his base of Cohen inventing crimes to get out of trouble, even he knows whats coming.

 Partial agreement, but also an embellishment:  If the troubles Cohen is now facing were about the Russia issues I rather think Mueller wouldn't have handed it off However, it does seem that Cohen had one and only one client, but we don't know if the act was at the behest of that client yet, and given the Cohen's character, or lack thereof, it is quite plausible to me that this could be all about Cohen. The courts take a very very dim view of crooked lawyers, but the critters are exceptionally aware of how not to get caught they only bag the dumb ones. Or the reckless and unlucky ones, I imagine. It's so rare they get a chance to nail one that when they do... spanking-300x297.jpg 

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5 hours ago, VhmSays said:

Funny how everyone including his allies are focused on whether Cohen will flip, no one is presuming that Trump is innocent. 

Trump is planting the seeds with his base of Cohen inventing crimes to get out of trouble, even he knows whats coming.

 

He will flip on every “cleanup job”he has done.

 

The question will be- Is the dirty laundry bad enough to get Donnie in real trouble?

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21 minutes ago, Snore said:

 

He will flip on every “cleanup job”he has done.

 

The question will be- Is the dirty laundry bad enough to get Donnie in real trouble?

....non-existent “sources” and a drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael, a fine person with a wonderful family. Michael is a businessman for his own account/lawyer who I have always liked & respected. Most people will flip if the Government lets them out of trouble, even if........it means lying or making up stories. Sorry, I don’t see Michael doing that despite the horrible Witch Hunt and the dishonest media!

14,040 replies8,698 retweets37,512 likes
 
 

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Who is the "drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael".

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9 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Who is the "drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael".

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm........................... anyone Trump wants it to be?

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Who is the "drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael".

Anyone who critiques Trump?

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On 4/19/2018 at 4:24 AM, hermetic said:

when was the last time someone got jail time for lying to a bank about how they used a home equity loan?

The savings and loan debacle of yore.......

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12 hours ago, VhmSays said:

Funny how everyone including his allies are focused on whether Cohen will flip, no one is presuming that Trump is innocent. 

Trump is planting the seeds with his base of Cohen inventing crimes to get out of trouble, even he knows whats coming.

This is pretty much the clincher. My lawyer, accountant, best friend, and worst enemy could all get arrested by a prosecutor with a hard on to see me in jail... and the worst I'd get might be a slap on the wrist for a missed unpaid parking ticket. There is nothing to "flip" on... but POTUS is quite the opposite. Cohen gets arrested, he freaks out, and then starts trying to pre-empt what Cohen might say a lies. That's a very guilty conscience speaking right there.

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The concept of flipping has to include something about which to flip. 

If  Gropenfuhrer is pure, then he has zero worries. 

There is absolutely no way a firmer personal lawyer to the POTUS would invent  lies about a man who Has the power of the POTUS. 

Why??? . 

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On 4/22/2018 at 12:21 AM, Amati said:

The savings and loan debacle of yore.......

The debacle that brought Neil Bush to the front page?

The one where he swindled people out of tens of millions of dollars, and got fined something like 3?

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18 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

The debacle that brought Neil Bush to the front page?

The one where he swindled people out of tens of millions of dollars, and got fined something like 3?

Kind of a Texas line dance......:lol:

 

Edit:  Nope, table dance..... ;)

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Robert Deniro, and Ben Stiller were hysterical on SNL, playing Mueller and Cohen.  Funny stuff that!!!

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On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:58 AM, Shortforbob said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/18/trump-michael-cohen-flip-536926

Cohen is supposedly the loyal retainer who would "take a bullet" for his client Trump.

So when Trump's WH say

"The White House appears to be creating some distance from Cohen. White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters earlier this week that though Trump and Cohen have “still got some ongoing things,” the president “has a large number of attorneys, as you know.”

and if Cohen may be facing 5,10,15 years..How loyal will he stay?

 

Cohen flipping “would be Trump’s worst nightmare,” said John Dean, the former White House counsel whose cooperation with Watergate prosecutors helped lead to President Richard Nixon’s resignation in 1974.

“It would be as stunning and life-disrupting a surprise as his winning the presidency,” Dean added. “And if there is any prosecutor’s office in the USA that can flip Cohen, it is the Southern District of New York.”

In a word, NO. google "Obama pardons" If Obama can pardon this group of miscreants including Snowden (actual espionage) then Trump pardoning Cohen will only be an issue to "it's OK for my guy but not yours" crowd that hangs out here...   

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9 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

In a word, NO. google "Obama pardons" If Obama can pardon this group of miscreants including Snowden (actual espionage) then Trump pardoning Cohen will only be an issue to "it's OK for my guy but not yours" crowd that hangs out here...   

Nope, not if Cohen is indicted/convicted of state or local crimes.  Presidential pardons do not apply to non-Federal situations.

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Nope, not if Cohen is indicted/convicted of state or local crimes.  Presidential pardons do not apply to non-Federal situations.

no one has any idea of what if anything Cohen has. All total media BS speculation at this point. 

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As said by others, my wife, friends, co-workers, lawyer and accountant could flip on me, and I wouldn't do time. I don't even think I'd pay a fine, unless it was for the unpermitted back room.

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6 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

As long as we are talking about flipping. Who flips first Comey or McCabe?  

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/18/gop-reps-refer-comey-clinton-mccabe-for-criminal-investigation.html

Wow. False equivalence taken to new levels.

I'm starting to think you're not even American. An American patriot would not speak the way you do of those who have served honorably, be they Mueller, Rosenstein, McCabe, or Comey. They would not worship and defend a draft dodger whose business dealings with Russia are so extensive. They would not tolerate impugning the honor of war heroes in Congress and elsewhere. 

You're a rat, TMSAIL. You think that seditious posts are just good fun, or perhaps you think it's true, or maybe you're just a troll. But this trend which you are abetting, that would insult our institutions and great men, does our country a disservice, and shows you to be a poor citizen.

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6 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

In a word, NO. google "Obama pardons" If Obama can pardon this group of miscreants including Snowden (actual espionage) then Trump pardoning Cohen will only be an issue to "it's OK for my guy but not yours" crowd that hangs out here...   

Excuse me, do you have trouble recognizing your wife if shes sitting next to  a lamp post?

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7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Excuse me, do you have trouble recognizing your wife if shes sitting next to  a lamp post?

Quite possibly in another year or two! :ph34r:

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46 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Wow. False equivalence taken to new levels.

I'm starting to think you're not even American. An American patriot would not speak the way you do of those who have served honorably, be they Mueller, Rosenstein, McCabe, or Comey. They would not worship and defend a draft dodger whose business dealings with Russia are so extensive. They would not tolerate impugning the honor of war heroes in Congress and elsewhere. 

You're a rat, TMSAIL. You think that seditious posts are just good fun, or perhaps you think it's true, or maybe you're just a troll. But this trend which you are abetting, that would insult our institutions and great men, does our country a disservice, and shows you to be a poor citizen.

Here we go again with your hatred of anyone that leans right,  breaking through. This is a political site it’s not limited to one side.

What was wrong with pointing out that criminal referrals have been made against Comey and McCabe?  

What is wrong with speculating on if they might flip if confronted with legal jeopardy?  In a thread about, well flipping? 

Have you been following McCabes reaction to recent  statements by Comey?  

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/20/mccabe-upset-and-disappointed-over-comey-comments.html

You need to get a grip I’m just as much a patriot as you claim to be.   My views are protected under the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.  Now don’t bother sending me a PM apology like you did the last time you questioned my patriotism. I now know it was not sincere 

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10 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

 

You need to get a grip I’m just as much a patriot as you claim to be.   My views are protected under the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.  Now don’t bother sending me a PM apology like you did the last time you questioned my patriotism. I now know it was not sincere 

Failed basic 1st Amendment protections, yet again. Like the old Dog, you cannot learn. As Eva Dent.

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7 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

no one has any idea of what if anything Cohen has. All total media BS speculation at this point. 

It's interesting that one of Trump's lawyers (a lawyer who probably knows a lot more about Trump's business and personal dealings than most), publicly stated he thinks there is a danger of Cohen flipping.

He probably knows things that the general public does not.

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54 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

 

You need to get a grip I’m just as much a patriot as you claim to be.   

You're a partisan hack that defends and excuses a xenophobic, narcissistic piece of shit, that also happens to be president. 

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once the house and senate flip, all of you pinko russian loving conservatives will learn to enjoy prison sex with the other races. god bless america.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Failed basic 1st Amendment protections, yet again. Like the old Dog, you cannot learn. As Eva Dent.

Did I mention anything about the first amendment?  

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8 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

no one has any idea of what if anything Cohen has. All total media BS speculation at this point. 

Well, that and the panic of Trump's legal team at hearing his records were seized. I wouldn't panic in the slightest if the entirety of my accounts, legal records, and even personal writings were seized by law enforcement as long as I got them back in time to do my taxes.

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

Now don’t bother sending me a PM apology like you did the last time you questioned my patriotism. I now know it was not sincere 

You? Complaining about PM'ed apologies?!? Oh now that is priceless. :lol: 

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37 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Did I mention anything about the first amendment?  

Actually, yes, unless you're referring to some other clause...

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23 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

no one has any idea of what if anything Cohen has. All total media BS speculation at this point. 

My statement was a statement of fact.  Your response is irrelevant to my statement.  

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On 4/24/2018 at 12:27 PM, Left Shift said:

Nope, not if Cohen is indicted/convicted of state or local crimes.  Presidential pardons do not apply to non-Federal situations.

 

Not exactly, at least not in NY.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-schneiderman-announces-full-support-new-lentolkaminsky-legislation-close-new-yorks

Excerpt -

ALBANY, NY — Today, Attorney General Schneiderman announced his full support for legislation introduced today by Assembly Codes Committee Chairman Joseph Lentol (D-North Brooklyn) and Senator Todd Kaminsky (D-Long Beach) to close New York’s double jeopardy loophole (A.10422). The loophole, identified in a letter by AG Schneiderman on Wednesday, would enable a president to essentially exceed his constitutional authority by pardoning any individual for both federal and state crimes. 

New York’s double jeopardy laws go well beyond constitutional requirements and the standards used by many other states – and could unintentionally insulate someone pardoned by the president from subsequent prosecution for state crimes. Lawmakers have amended New York’s double jeopardy statute 12 times in recent years to close other loopholes. 

“I thank Assembly Speaker Heastie, Assembly Codes Committee Chairman Lentol and Senator Kaminsky for taking swift action towards closing this unnecessary and hazardous loophole,” said Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman. “New York’s current double jeopardy loophole is a recipe for trouble that would essentially allow any president to pardon individuals for state and federal crimes with a single stroke of the pen. New York lawmakers can close that loophole—and substantially reduce the threat of lawless White House action—by passing this important legislation. New York prosecutors must be able to enforce our laws, and ensure that no one who breaks New York law will escape accountability merely because of a strategically-timed presidential pardon. Long ago, the Supreme Court made clear that presidents cannot pardon for state crimes—now it’s time for New York law to do the same.”

“The ability to effectively enforce the laws is imperative to a civil society. This bill will ensure that the President does not have free reign to circumvent state law. I am hopeful that this bill will pass and close the double jeopardy loophole, while also protecting our state from those that break the law,” said Assemblyman Joseph R. Lentol.

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4 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

Not exactly, at least not in NY.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-schneiderman-announces-full-support-new-lentolkaminsky-legislation-close-new-yorks

Excerpt -

ALBANY, NY — Today, Attorney General Schneiderman announced his full support for legislation introduced today by Assembly Codes Committee Chairman Joseph Lentol (D-North Brooklyn) and Senator Todd Kaminsky (D-Long Beach) to close New York’s double jeopardy loophole (A.10422). The loophole, identified in a letter by AG Schneiderman on Wednesday, would enable a president to essentially exceed his constitutional authority by pardoning any individual for both federal and state crimes. 

New York’s double jeopardy laws go well beyond constitutional requirements and the standards used by many other states – and could unintentionally insulate someone pardoned by the president from subsequent prosecution for state crimes. Lawmakers have amended New York’s double jeopardy statute 12 times in recent years to close other loopholes. 

“I thank Assembly Speaker Heastie, Assembly Codes Committee Chairman Lentol and Senator Kaminsky for taking swift action towards closing this unnecessary and hazardous loophole,” said Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman. “New York’s current double jeopardy loophole is a recipe for trouble that would essentially allow any president to pardon individuals for state and federal crimes with a single stroke of the pen. New York lawmakers can close that loophole—and substantially reduce the threat of lawless White House action—by passing this important legislation. New York prosecutors must be able to enforce our laws, and ensure that no one who breaks New York law will escape accountability merely because of a strategically-timed presidential pardon. Long ago, the Supreme Court made clear that presidents cannot pardon for state crimes—now it’s time for New York law to do the same.”

“The ability to effectively enforce the laws is imperative to a civil society. This bill will ensure that the President does not have free reign to circumvent state law. I am hopeful that this bill will pass and close the double jeopardy loophole, while also protecting our state from those that break the law,” said Assemblyman Joseph R. Lentol.

Interesting.  Once again, it is shown that legal minds are different from normal, human minds.  

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44 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Interesting.  Once again, it is shown that legal minds are different from normal, human minds.  

Seems more like a STITES RITES battle to me.

 

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19 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Here we go again with your hatred of anyone that leans right,  breaking through. This is a political site it’s not limited to one side.

What was wrong with pointing out that criminal referrals have been made against Comey and McCabe?  

What is wrong with speculating on if they might flip if confronted with legal jeopardy?  In a thread about, well flipping? 

Have you been following McCabes reaction to recent  statements by Comey?  

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/20/mccabe-upset-and-disappointed-over-comey-comments.html

You need to get a grip I’m just as much a patriot as you claim to be.   My views are protected under the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.  Now don’t bother sending me a PM apology like you did the last time you questioned my patriotism. I now know it was not sincere 

Nothing is "wrong" with it, I just see you as willing to toss aside the service of war heroes and administrators with decades of experience for short term political gain. I believe your partisan attacks on non-partisan figures as weakening our institutions. I see you as willfully misunderstanding news and breaking events to fit a narrative of FOX's creation. I see your ad hominem attacks on these figures as worthy of contempt.

Nope, nothing is wrong, and yes you are free to use your freedoms as you see fit. I just see your speech as counterproductive to the American experiment. You would sacrifice noble figures for failing to find a way to handle extraordinary times and devious leaders without criticizing your chosen politician. 

Comey squashed Hillary's chances after decades of GOP investigations and mudslinging left her a damaged, but still viable candidate. If anyone could survive that perpetual onslaught without losing her mind or her freedom shows courage and enough adherence to the law to fight off the effort legally. But the legal warfare did its job in the end, and Trump & his tax cut is the spoils. 

The GOP has done the Swiftboating, accepted the insults Trump leveled at McCain and now wants to impugn Mueller, a decorated marine with an exemplary bio.

This is NOT patriotism, and I am arguing it, and those who spew it, are NOT patriots. Yep, I was convinced once that you didn't deserve my attack, but this wasn't you quoting a news report, this was you referring to one of our nation's highest (Ex) lawmen as a felon. 

Your call what you do with your rights. But I think FOX and you are yelling "FIRE" and trying to burn this bitch down.

I love the USA, and I say you should change your tune. 

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25 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Nothing is "wrong" with it, I just see you as willing to toss aside the service of war heroes and administrators with decades of experience for short term political gain. I believe your partisan attacks on non-partisan figures as weakening our institutions. I see you as willfully misunderstanding news and breaking events to fit a narrative of FOX's creation. I see your ad hominem attacks on these figures as worthy of contempt.

Nope, nothing is wrong, and yes you are free to use your freedoms as you see fit. I just see your speech as counterproductive to the American experiment. You would sacrifice noble figures for failing to find a way to handle extraordinary times and devious leaders without criticizing your chosen politician. 

Comey squashed Hillary's chances after decades of GOP investigations and mudslinging left her a damaged, but still viable candidate. If anyone could survive that perpetual onslaught without losing her mind or her freedom shows courage and enough adherence to the law to fight off the effort legally. But the legal warfare did its job in the end, and Trump & his tax cut is the spoils. 

The GOP has done the Swiftboating, accepted the insults Trump leveled at McCain and now wants to impugn Mueller, a decorated marine with an exemplary bio.

This is NOT patriotism, and I am arguing it, and those who spew it, are NOT patriots. Yep, I was convinced once that you didn't deserve my attack, but this wasn't you quoting a news report, this was you referring to one of our nation's highest (Ex) lawmen as a felon. 

Your call what you do with your rights. But I think FOX and you are yelling "FIRE" and trying to burn this bitch down.

I love the USA, and I say you should change your tune. 

If you truly loved the USA you would see the irony of your last sentence. 

I debate endlessly on this site I have never called into question someone’s patriotism because they do not share my views.  I believe allowing people to have their say without demanding they “change their tune” is exactly what this country is all about.

  I suggest you go back and read what I posted that set you off.  I said nothing about Mueller or McCain.  I didn’t call anyone felons  

 I posted a link about criminal referrals for McCabe and Comey.  I asked a question about who would flip first based on the news reports that both men were unhappy with the comments and actions of the other.  

Based on all the talk about who is going to flip on who I believe it was relevant to this discussion.  You are always free to disagree. 

At this time they are in the exact same position as Cohen - under suspicion of committing criminal acts.  

I’m not making that up or speculating.  It is based on the story I linked  

 

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13 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

If you truly loved the USA you would see the irony of your last sentence. 

I debate endlessly on this site I have never called into question someone’s patriotism because they do not share my views.  I believe allowing people to have their say without demanding they “change their tune” is exactly what this country is all about.

  I suggest you go back and read what I posted that set you off.  I said nothing about Mueller or McCain.  I didn’t call anyone felons  

 I posted a link about criminal referrals for McCabe and Comey.  I asked a question about who would flip first based on the news reports that both men were unhappy with the comments and actions of the other.  

Based on all the talk about who is going to flip on who I believe it was relevant to this discussion.  You are always free to disagree. 

At this time they are in the exact same position as Cohen - under suspicion of committing criminal acts.  

I’m not making that up or speculating.  It is based on the story I linked  

 

What you don't understand and Philly is too polite to say is that you're arguing from a position of moral inferiority.

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On 4/24/2018 at 9:29 AM, Movable Ballast said:

no one has any idea of what if anything Cohen has. All total media BS speculation at this point. 

This brings us back to the thread topic question.

Unless Trump is an angel who didn't need a "fixer," for ten years, Cohen does't have to flip. Since Cohen's communications were snagged by SDNY, my highly probable speculation is that Cohen doesn't need to flip. Based on the evidence likely to be found in those raids, without any flipping, legal catastrophe will still hit Cohen AND Mr. Trump. And possibly the kids.

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

What you don't understand and Philly is too polite to say is that you're arguing from a position of moral inferiority.

:)

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53 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

This is NOT patriotism, and I am arguing it, and those who spew it, are NOT patriots. Yep, I was convinced once that you didn't deserve my attack, but this wasn't you quoting a news report, this was you referring to one of our nation's highest (Ex) lawmen as a felon. 

Your call what you do with your rights. But I think FOX and you are yelling "FIRE" and trying to burn this bitch down.

I love the USA, and I say you should change your tune. 

if comey, like mccabe, is found to have lied under oath, should they not both face charges?  regardless of their past positions and performance

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22 minutes ago, hermetic said:

if comey, like mccabe, is found to have lied under oath, should they not both face charges?  regardless of their past positions and performance

That was my point in posting the story. 

I have to be honest I was a bit shocked at that over the top response from Philly 

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

Comey squashed Hillary's chances after decades of GOP investigations and mudslinging left her a damaged, but still viable candidate. If anyone could survive that perpetual onslaught without losing her mind or her freedom shows courage and enough adherence to the law to fight off the effort legally. But the legal warfare did its job in the end, and Trump & his tax cut is the spoils. 

I suspect that this is at the core of your issue - you thought that Mme Clinton deserved the Presidency, and in fact until late on election night you thought she had already won, and can't accept that enough people didn't want to vote for her that Trump did.  In your angst - you imagine that every opposition to Hillary must be either the result of idiocy or intentional misdeeds on someone else's part - it couldn't possible be because people had a negative reaction to the candidate herself....  

Philly - there's a bit of something here, put nicely, it's self denial.  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Right wing physicians AGITC Dog TMSHITOCRIT, heal thineselves.

The only thing I'm fixing is old broken toys - the mess you partisan hacks have made of things is beyond my abilities or desire to address. 

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The only thing I'm fixing is old broken toys - the mess you partisan hacks have made of things is beyond my abilities or desire to address. 

quelle surprise.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

What you don't understand and Philly is too polite to say is that you're arguing from a position of moral inferiority.

Nah, he's jut a traitor. Someone who doesn't mind Russian interference in the election, because it benefits "his side"

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