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So, I got a taste of an e-bike this week and I gotta say, I was impressed so now I want one. Most of my rides are about 12-30 miles and I'm not getting younger. Is there a particular bike I should be looking at? I'm currently looking at the Specialized Turbo S.

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Dude IDK...but I'd kill to get a Freeride  E XC

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10 minutes ago, captpiratedog said:

Dude IDK...but I'd kill to get a Freeride  E XC

Wow, had no idea..... electric dirt bikes? F-f-f-f-fUUUUUCK!!!!!!

-DSK

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There's a company based just down the road from me called RAD Power Bikes. They also run a rental business out of their shop, so I see them running around town all over the place but I'd never paid much attention to them. When my stepmom was looking at an eBike about a year ago I surveyed all the makes and checked them out. Turns out that at the time, they were a standout on motor power, battery capacity, and cost. I went an test rode one and was impressed not only with the ride but also how well it stood up to rental abuse. She bought one and liked it so much that my Dad bought one a few months later. FWIW. 

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/

 

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5 hours ago, captpiratedog said:

Dude IDK...but I'd kill to get a Freeride  E XC

No shit. If one of those will do a day of single track I'm in.

OK maybe not completely in. 7500 euro base price without battery, you lease that for another 50 a month. 

Would be OK for local rides but our multi day trips would require a 220V

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/10/19/2018-ktm-freeride-e-xc-first-look-14-fast-facts/

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I hate those things............well, not really but its amazing how many more fat pale idiot tourists those rentals have put on our local roads and urban bike/run trails here in So Cal. Now anybody with a credit card can whir off down the road whether they have ever ridden anywhere or have any sense of bike path/road ettiqute in their life. 

Sigh..............and get off my lawn..........

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1 hour ago, bmiller said:

No shit. If one of those will do a day of single track I'm in.

OK maybe not completely in. 7500 euro base price without battery, you lease that for another 50 a month. 

Would be OK for local rides but our multi day trips would require a 220V

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/10/19/2018-ktm-freeride-e-xc-first-look-14-fast-facts/

They're crap for long trips. But in our state, they're magic for riding hooligan-style through some unallowed areas without  getting caught. Quiet, spark-free, if I had one I would take it slow to keep from damaging the trail.

Apologies, I know it's not environmentally-sensitive, but I got spoiled in Alabama, basically able to ride my enduro through any non-private area, with nobody giving a rat's ass. It was enduro heaven.

But aside from hooligan trail riding, batteries still can't touch gas, the energy density isn't even in the same universe ... I would still rather have a regular gas-engine KTM 250 EXC, that bike is The Almighty's gift to people who love mud.

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As far as equipment:  they seem beautiful and bitchen.  As far as e-bikes, not electric motorcycles...  Ethically, I think they are great for commuting and I would totally do one if my commute wasn't a two-lane farm gauntlet.   Trail-wise, they should be allowed on any dirt road or motorcycle-legal trail that's open to motorized things.  Because they have a motor.  If I'm chugging  up a hill and some old(er) tired(er) mofo is going to pass me on his or her e--bike, they should at least pass me a cold beer. 

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I bought a German-made Bulls Cross Lite E and love it. Bosche drive is pretty amazing, the motor only works when you are pedaling and you control how much "help" you want from the electric motor.

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I couldn't afford both wheels so I got an EUC. Love whipping by the young kids on it. They really don't appreciate a 65 year old playing on cool stuff.

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8 minutes ago, Guitar said:

I couldn't afford both wheels so I got an EUC. Love whipping by the young kids on it. They really don't appreciate a 65 year old playing on cool stuff.

WTF is an EUC?

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Electric Uni-cycle

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Maybe should be in the Motorcycle thread but its  an E ..this is the cali bike Alta , compared to the KTM , it's worthy 

 

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I'm just sick of running to the farm in a diesel pickup to get the mail. It seems super wasteful. If I can do it on a bike, I'm down with that. And it's more fun.

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5 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

I'm just sick of running to the farm in a diesel pickup to get the mail. It seems super wasteful. If I can do it on a bike, I'm down with that. And it's more fun.

Makes sense to me....and it does sound fun.

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20 hours ago, Point Break said:

I hate those things............well, not really but its amazing how many more fat pale idiot tourists those rentals have put on our local roads and urban bike/run trails here in So Cal. Now anybody with a credit card can whir off down the road whether they have ever ridden anywhere or have any sense of bike path/road ettiqute in their life. 

Sigh..............and get off my lawn..........

Electric scooters are flooding California, and they’ll be on your sidewalks soon

https://qz.com/1257997/electric-scooters-are-flooding-california-and-theyll-be-on-your-sidewalks-soon/

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5 hours ago, ease the sheet said:

That looks like hard work.  Does it come with a seat?

No seat, my battery last about 4 miles, just about all I want to ride. I take it to Vegas for the SEMA Show as traffic, both vehicle and ped is nightmarish. Gets me to and from my hotel. I l live on a ridge and it is 1.5 miles round trip and 400 elevation difference to check my mail. Now it is much funner.

 

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On 4/20/2018 at 9:20 PM, captpiratedog said:

Maybe should be in the Motorcycle thread but its  an E ..this is the cali bike Alta , compared to the KTM , it's worthy 

 

that's the one the top gear guys used. they seemed to really enjoy it but did say it was pricey for a dirt bike and I'd have to agree. why does that thing cost $12K? there is nothing to it! I get that there was a lot of development that went into it, but come on. there is nothing groundbreaking about an electric dirt bike.

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New technology always comes with a high price...unfortunately by the time I'm push'n dirt they will be more reasonably priced and go farther and faster...for now it;s priced right there with the exotics 

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what new technology? electric motors? batteries? electronics? all of those have been around for a long time. 

it's the same thing with the torqueedo. why does a trolling motor with a li-on battery cost so much? it boggles my mind.

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34 minutes ago, derelicte said:

what new technology? electric motors? batteries? electronics? all of those have been around for a long time. 

it's the same thing with the torqueedo. why does a trolling motor with a li-on battery cost so much? it boggles my mind.

Economy of scale. 

In five years as the demand grows and production ramps up the price will fall.

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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 7:20 PM, captpiratedog said:

Maybe should be in the Motorcycle thread but its  an E ..this is the cali bike Alta , compared to the KTM , it's worthy 

 

 

Sometimes I think I was born a century late. 

Then this comes along and I think damn, a little too early.

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1 hour ago, bmiller said:

Economy of scale. 

In five years as the demand grows and production ramps up the price will fall.

I agree that scale will help. we've already started seeing that with electric cars: the leaf has gotten cheaper, tesla has a cheaper model, etc.

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Like the Zeros, a $3000 motorcycle with a $10,000 battery...

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advances in technology.......Image result for 1980 cell phone

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Austin.  You may know this but Specialized has phased out the rear drive Turbo S series.  The current bikes are mid drive and called Turbo Vado they are lovely.    They also have a casual Turbo Como.     I would think any S models are discounted by now.

Trek makes the Super Commuter 7 and 8 as well as a more casual Verve +  

For all intents mid drive dominates the quality E-bike market. 

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Seajay, yep. I think it lowers the CoG and lots of makers are using the Bosch system in the crank/bottom bracket. But this one is a demo and 45% off. I know e-bikes are like cheating but I live a long way from pretty much everywhere. I don't want to go to places like work and show up as a big sack of sweat. It also seems stupid to drive a 3/4 ton pickup that eats a gallon of diesel every 20 miles on a good day just to get my ass to work. That's like 6 gallons round trip.

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just in case anybody thinks e-bikes are for sissies only: watch this:

 

on our outing yesterday he effortlessly did bunnyhops with the 23kg bike...

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I rented one for a couple hours when I was in Rome this past January - I liked it.  I'd be concerned over range/recharge times - but, if my needs fit into that envelope, wouldn't hesitate to enjoy one.   I want HD to work on their electric bike and get it to the point that it has a 300 mile range, 110V recharge in 30 minutes or less.  It'd make a viable commuter bike for me at that point, and I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  

I rode an electric GoldWing race bike out at Bonneville in 2002 - that thing was scary quick. 

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57 minutes ago, tane said:

just in case anybody thinks e-bikes are for sissies only: watch this:

<SNIP>

on our outing yesterday he effortlessly did bunnyhops with the 23kg bike...

So - the electric motor adds an assist while pedaling?   I'm not at all familiar with those. 

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Yes, they assist while you pedal. You can go 30 mph if you pedal hard. That gets me where I'm going.

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4 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

Yes, they assist while you pedal. You can go 30 mph if you pedal hard. That gets me where I'm going.

Hmm - the one I rented was more akin to an electric moped - I'll have to check these things out. 

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6 hours ago, austin1972 said:

Seajay, yep. I think it lowers the CoG and lots of makers are using the Bosch system in the crank/bottom bracket. But this one is a demo and 45% off. I know e-bikes are like cheating but I live a long way from pretty much everywhere. I don't want to go to places like work and show up as a big sack of sweat. It also seems stupid to drive a 3/4 ton pickup that eats a gallon of diesel every 20 miles on a good day just to get my ass to work. That's like 6 gallons round trip.

 

120 miles is over 60 bucks, if you use 54 cents/mile which is AAA and IRS deduction for average total cost per mile, not just gas.  I don't understand why folks drive south for winter vacations, unless they are retired, and need to bring a lot of stuff for an extended stay.  I can usually fly to Charleston, or Fort Liquordale for less than 300 bucks, which is way less expensive than driving!

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$2.79/gallon currently. That doesn't count all the other expensive stuff like tires, brakes, oil etc. It costs me $100 to change my oil with me doing it. Tires? $1,500. Brakes are about the same with me doing them. Then there's tolls. That's $2 each way.

My water pump blew. That and the belt weren't hard. Sussing out the fuel pump was a bitch and the tow wasn't inexpensive either. Nothing like welding on a fuel tank to scare your pants off.

The Prairie Schooner isn't cheap to run. It's old.

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2018-zero-s-electric-motorcycle_10062896

 

2018 Zero SR

$16,500  - 14.4 kwh   - 179 miles - 1.3-kw charger (120V) - 70 hp - 116 ft-lbs - 414 lbs

$19,400 - 18 kwh - 223 miles - 1.3-kw charger (120V) - 70 hp - 116 ft-lbs - 458 lbs

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58 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

2018-zero-s-electric-motorcycle_10062896

 

2018 Zero SR

$16,500  - 14.4 kwh   - 179 miles - 1.3-kw charger (120V) - 70 hp - 116 ft-lbs - 414 lbs

$19,400 - 18 kwh - 223 miles - 1.3-kw charger (120V) - 70 hp - 116 ft-lbs - 458 lbs

 

Very cool!  But, I wonder how that compares to a used Bimmer, or Moto Guzzi, or Ducati?   Hard to not be a petrol head at my age...

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53 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Very cool!  But, I wonder how that compares to a used Bimmer, or Moto Guzzi, or Ducati?   Hard to not be a petrol head at my age...

i would guess it would spend 1/100 of the time in the shop for maintenance..   no valves, no oil.. no carbs..

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14 hours ago, austin1972 said:

Seajay, yep. I think it lowers the CoG and lots of makers are using the Bosch system in the crank/bottom bracket. But this one is a demo and 45% off. I know e-bikes are like cheating but I live a long way from pretty much everywhere. I don't want to go to places like work and show up as a big sack of sweat. It also seems stupid to drive a 3/4 ton pickup that eats a gallon of diesel every 20 miles on a good day just to get my ass to work. That's like 6 gallons round trip.

Yes and pedal drive feels a bit different.  Pedals driven rather than wheel, I assume.  The S was nice.   Getting one at under 2K is even nicer.  I'm sure it will treat you well.

Not cheating in my book.  But I think there are too many "rules" in cycling anyway.    Just enjoy the bike. 

 

Hey, its my 5o5 post.  Cool!

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20 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

2018-zero-s-electric-motorcycle_10062896

 

2018 Zero SR

$16,500  - 14.4 kwh   - 179 miles - 1.3-kw charger (120V) - 70 hp - 116 ft-lbs - 414 lbs

$19,400 - 18 kwh - 223 miles - 1.3-kw charger (120V) - 70 hp - 116 ft-lbs - 458 lbs

I like the #s - but, $3K for 40 miles more range between charges?   I really hope someone comes up w/an e-vehicle that can go 300 miles between recharges, that'd be a practical commuter for me. 

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I don't need 300 miles between recharges but 2.5X my max commute distance (~40 miles round trip = 100 mile range) is kinda mandatory. Assuming I can only charge at home and forget to plug it in one night, I'd still be okay.

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That Zero is a nice bike but they need to cut the price in half to be viable. Only Silicon Valley stock option schlubs can afford to ride those to Alice's Restaurant.

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34 minutes ago, IStream said:

I don't need 300 miles between recharges but 2.5X my max commute distance (~40 miles round trip = 100 mile range) is kinda mandatory. Assuming I can only charge at home and forget to plug it in one night, I'd still be okay.

My commute is either 72 miles or 90 miles each way - thru some of the ugliest congestion on the east coast.  I can't chance running outta juice in the middle of 66.  I was thinking a 3X factor.  Anyone have an approximation of recharge costs (assume $.12/kwH) /vs/ gas?  

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i've got 9 miles one way, looked at riding the actually bicycle, but realize I would be killed on the uphill on the way home by someone with the sun in their eyes.

So - what's the best option? 

 

A used Zero?

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the batteries in those bikes don't cost $10k. a replacement battery for a leaf is only $5.5k and is bigger. 

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20 hours ago, Raz'r said:

i've got 9 miles one way, looked at riding the actually bicycle, but realize I would be killed on the uphill on the way home by someone with the sun in their eyes.

So - what's the best option? 

 

A used Zero?

I really like the idea of the e-assist. I can pretend I'm getting a workout while listening to podcasts and learning new stuff.

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On 4/25/2018 at 12:49 PM, austin1972 said:

Yes, they assist while you pedal. You can go 30 mph if you pedal hard. That gets me where I'm going.

There are a pile of them here in Park City, UT. Lots of people own them, there's a store in town, but there's also a public e-bike rental system.  Both have been great.  Our neighbor gets around a lot on his and takes it to Salt Lake City so he can park his car and do his errands around the city on it.  The terrain here is aggressive and he has no trouble getting around.

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I think this thread needs to be broken into three:

Electric Bicycles

Electric Dirt Bikes

Electric Motorcycles

I definitely want a Zero or some other electric motorcycle for getting around town.  However, not easy when I have to pick up the two little boys from school.

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10 hours ago, WCB said:

I think this thread needs to be broken into three:

Electric Bicycles

Electric Dirt Bikes

Electric Motorcycles

I definitely want a Zero or some other electric motorcycle for getting around town.  However, not easy when I have to pick up the two little boys from school.

 

build a 2-seat sidecar!!

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11 hours ago, WCB said:

There are a pile of them here in Park City, UT. Lots of people own them, there's a store in town, but there's also a public e-bike rental system.  Both have been great.  Our neighbor gets around a lot on his and takes it to Salt Lake City so he can park his car and do his errands around the city on it.  The terrain here is aggressive and he has no trouble getting around.

My terrain is pretty flat but everything is far away. Anyhow, they seem like a good option to get around in a fun and relatively cheap way.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

build a 2-seat sidecar!!

On it!  There is an impressive family or two here.  One dad tows a trailer behind his e-bicycle and picks up two boys from pre-school.  It pulls the three of them up quite the hill on the way home.  The other family has two parents who seem to ride everywhere, towing trailers and modified seats.  They're way into it, picking up their kids from the elementary school on bicycles nearly year round.

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50 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

My terrain is pretty flat but everything is far away. Anyhow, they seem like a good option to get around in a fun and relatively cheap way.

Definitely...do it.

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On 4/25/2018 at 7:57 AM, austin1972 said:

Seajay, yep. I think it lowers the CoG and lots of makers are using the Bosch system in the crank/bottom bracket. But this one is a demo and 45% off. I know e-bikes are like cheating but I live a long way from pretty much everywhere. I don't want to go to places like work and show up as a big sack of sweat. It also seems stupid to drive a 3/4 ton pickup that eats a gallon of diesel every 20 miles on a good day just to get my ass to work. That's like 6 gallons round trip.

yeah all that product testing during the TdF

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