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Well, we know that it sails, but what we don't know is how fast it is? Share what you know.

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At the very least, as far as the info out there so far, it is at least in the top half of the fleet.

This, one week after launch, first regatta.

Wait 'til she's sorted...

 

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Looks like it's pushing an IOR sized bow wave.

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A perfect example why sailing is declining. Looks real family friendly, and affordable. 

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My guess is nowhere near as fast a cat or tri the same size without all that stupid shit going on in the back corner.

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20 minutes ago, jkeeley said:

A perfect example why sailing is declining. Looks real family friendly, and affordable. 

Someone has to pay the bills to keep the yards alive. Don't hate on people who don't all buy 20 year old boats.

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24 minutes ago, jkeeley said:

A perfect example why sailing is declining. Looks real family friendly, and affordable. 

Are you an idiot?  So a firm that designs and builds racing yachts builds a new one, and THAT'S why sailing isn't affordable or family friendly?  Jesus!  I bet you can't by a little car anymore because of Formula 1 Car Racing, right?

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Can someone explain what the reverse sheer/tumblehome/deep mining bow is meant to do/solve/improve?

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Just a guess ... but the reverse to leeward of normal bow shape above the bow chine, should theoretically ease bow through water without throwing wasted energy to leeward ... as many monohulls - but not multihulls - do.

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9 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

Can someone explain what the reverse sheer/tumblehome/deep mining bow is meant to do/solve/improve?

My completely uneducated guesses...

Improved airflow up on to the deck on the windward side and improved airflow in general, while still keeping plenty of volume forward.

I suspect it also very effectivly sheds water so it may actually deal better with putting the nose under than many are predicting.

Fair amount of wave piercing effect as well.

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3 hours ago, yikes said:

dude wearing white sunglasses needs a talking to....

It looks like the guy two forward of him is texting his Mom or watching porn.  I'm  sure he was telling him to cut that crap out.

Back to the boat.  If you are one of those guys that makes a living hiking out it looks like a relatively comfortable deck to do it on including the non skid.

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1 hour ago, Gutterblack said:

Can someone explain what the reverse sheer/tumblehome/deep mining bow is meant to do/solve/improve?

 

Reduce forward deck area/laminate weight without reducing the bow buoyancy. Could also see a reduction in forward leeward drag. 

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Love the chine, reminds me of windsurfing for years in sub-planing conditions, using my hard-chined sailboard, keeping the board (chine) level to the water to maximize chance of getting to plane.

Like A-Cats, with hulls canted out to be as functional as possible when sailing, not sitting still.  Looks weird initially but love how sailing is exponentially evolving.

Flat surface for crew to sit on, yeah.

Less hobby horsing with the bow config., more laminar, less energy lost, more comfort to crew.

Sweet carbon boom, reminds me of a Finn.

Surprised there isn't a rotating foiled mast.

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

My completely uneducated guesses...

Improved airflow up on to the deck on the windward side and improved airflow in general, while still keeping plenty of volume forward.

I suspect it also very effectivly sheds water so it may actually deal better with putting the nose under than many are predicting.

Fair amount of wave piercing effect as well.

Bingo: google image search for airflow over bow of boat...some interesting stuff. I think FarEast have built some foil effects into the bow of one of their boats, trying to direct the wind onto the sail properly.

 

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Easy.  When heeled the boat has a narrower waterline and is inherently faster in displacement mode.  Also, resists lateral motion so points higher (cat sailors will notice this when the leeward hull depresses the can point higher, even with a board).  When not heeling, downwind, the hull form achieves a nice flat planing surface to ride on.  Rail meat maneuverability at a premium here but could be a faster hull form.  IMHO, cheaper and more fun to go foiling....

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4 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

Can someone explain what the reverse sheer/tumblehome/deep mining bow is meant to do/solve/improve?

With the foredeck and bow cut out so severely, the overall volume is less than a standard Fast 40', so I'd guess it weights less.  There could also be a superior structural component to the foredeck/reverse bow that's being written off as style over substance when it's actually stronger and lighter.  It certainly doesn't look like a basic plumb bow/stern boat. 

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Why is the rudder so far forward? :blink:

 

Electric motor -> charge with shore power at the dock overnight? Do they have a min-range under power & would electric actually be lighter for that?

 

There's more pics at http://fast40class2018.com/pictures

A lot of interest in the bow here

IMG_1566.jpg

IMG_1842.jpg

IMG_1782.jpg

 

 

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4 hours ago, hoom said:
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Why is the rudder so far forward? :blink:

Because any Oppie dad will tell any 10 year old "that is the best place to sit in the boat".

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, hoom said:

Electric motor -> charge with shore power at the dock overnight? Do they have a min-range under power & would electric actually be lighter for that?

Fast 40+ race under OSR Cat 4, which has no minimum fuel requirement. (Cat 3 and above requires fuel for 8 hours at 1.8 x  √LWL in metres). The series is only inshore ww/lw and round the cans.

Class rules require an engine and saildrive of at least 153Kg (dry weight). So they do save on the weight of fuel and lubricants. But the boat (probably) can't do any offshore races.

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6 hours ago, r.finn said:

With the foredeck and bow cut out so severely, the overall volume is less than a standard Fast 40', so I'd guess it weights less.  There could also be a superior structural component to the foredeck/reverse bow that's being written off as style over substance when it's actually stronger and lighter.  It certainly doesn't look like a basic plumb bow/stern boat. 

I think it's mostly about minimizing weight and maximizing RM,  although hydrodynamics and airflow probably plays a role  too, but a lesser one 

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Costings would be interesting....

Great looking boat and brilliant developments, as normal this type of design will filter down pretty quickly and it take a real innovator to push the button on it.

Good on you Niklas

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I wonder how much drag is that bow creating when it sinks in the water and how much water it sprays to the cockpit... Looking forward to see some results.

Pic below seems like a more sensible option... Less marketing but with the right colour I think it could be the winning bullet.

Image may contain: sky, ocean, boat, outdoor and water

 

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24 minutes ago, JoeO said:

No solid vang?

Nope. Not on the TP52's either. Just a string of Dyneema, possibly with a tube of carbon around it. Lighter.

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8 minutes ago, silversurfer said:

Nope. Not on the TP52's either. Just a string of Dyneema, possibly with a tube of carbon around it. Lighter.

No need to provide support in light air? Doesn't the leech get closed off from weight of boom?  I guess it's only a USS prescription to have some means of "boom support".

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Big, squarehead carbon sail on carbon boom. So not much weight, and a good handful of leech tension even in light breeze.  Plus (at least for the 40s), the tides in the Solent mean that you never really go sailing in sub 5ish knots TWS.

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11 hours ago, hoom said:

Why is the rudder so far forward? :blink:

 

Electric motor -> charge with shore power at the dock overnight? Do they have a min-range under power & would electric actually be lighter for that?

 

There's more pics at http://fast40class2018.com/pictures

A lot of interest in the bow here

IMG_1566.jpg

IMG_1842.jpg

IMG_1782.jpg

 

 

Looks like the jib cars are too far back and they have some funky mainsail stuff going on with the bottom slug and the tack ring with that much outhaul. Does it need the tack ring re-located? 

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31 minutes ago, silversurfer said:

Nope. Not on the TP52's either. Just a string of Dyneema, possibly with a tube of carbon around it. Lighter.

More aerodynamic too.

 

3 minutes ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Looks like the jib cars are too far back and they have some funky mainsail stuff going on with the bottom slug and the tack ring with that much outhaul. Does it need the tack ring re-located? 

Halyard lock and cunno to tension would be my guess.

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1 hour ago, JoeO said:

No solid vang?

Trying to keep all weight down.  Same as TP52's where they put the vang line through a carbon tube of appropriate length to keep the boom up some as the class rules in the TP makes it mandatory - I guess it isn't in the Fast 40's

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Rudder looked far forward in the out of the water shots. Seeing where the tiller is really shows how far forward it it. 

That big chamfer gives the forward crew a nice level place to hike from when heeled. Also reduces deck size forward a fair bit, so weight savings. Looks funny having to place a stanchion on it.

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1 minute ago, sean9c said:

Rudder looked far forward in the out of the water shots. Seeing where the tiller is really shows how far forward it it. 

That big chamfer gives the forward crew a nice level place to hike from when heeled. Also reduces deck size forward a fair bit, so weight savings. Looks funny having to place a stanchion on it.

Actually not - there is a linkage system below decks linking a "fake" rudder post forward to the real rudder post further aft.  Done this way to get the driver forward in the boat

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1 hour ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Looks like the jib cars are too far back and they have some funky mainsail stuff going on with the bottom slug and the tack ring with that much outhaul. Does it need the tack ring re-located? 

I’m sure that’ll all be tweaked by the next trip out. 

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19 hours ago, jkeeley said:

A perfect example why sailing is declining. Looks real family friendly, and affordable. 

At the top of any sport, nothing is family friendly 

Lewis_Hamilton_2015_Malaysia_FP2_1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Looks like the jib cars are too far back and they have some funky mainsail stuff going on with the bottom slug and the tack ring with that much outhaul. Does it need the tack ring re-located? 

How can you tell the jib car is too far aft? No jib leech shots. 

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To me the deck shape looks like a very natural/logical evolution. One of these "why didn't I think of that ?" situations to me. In itself it is quite beautiful just like the deck/cockpit floor transition of some of the bigger Mills designs. Agree with the stanchion thing though - I guess stanchions in general don't add much to the look of any yacht, but in this case it really becomes a sore thumb. Still some cleaning up to do - I am sure it will continue.....:-)

 

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1 hour ago, Christian said:

Actually not - there is a linkage system below decks linking a "fake" rudder post forward to the real rudder post further aft.  Done this way to get the driver forward in the boat

Is there?

5ade163e66116_file10773.thumb.jpeg.73660d3894582864d18a962593bb3d81.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Presuming Ed said:

Is there?

5ade163e66116_file10773.thumb.jpeg.73660d3894582864d18a962593bb3d81.jpeg

Well - maybe not.  I thought I remembered a mention of a false rudder post to get the driver further forward but looking at that pic she certainly has the rudder pretty far forward so maybe not.  She will be a bit twitchy with the rudder that far forward

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So besides being wet in a 2-3' chop, won't that shape actually force the bow down into a sea and really tend to slow her with every wave?  I think the number crunchers forgot the reality of the sea in their quest for lightness and nouveau novelty

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Looks very baleen whale shaped in the last photo. Interesting and not unpleasant lines  just different.

Must be unsettling to be near or on the gunwale in washing machine conditions. 

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8 minutes ago, Christian said:

Well - maybe not.  I thought I remembered a mention of a false rudder post to get the driver further forward but looking at that pic she certainly has the rudder pretty far forward so maybe not.  She will be a bit twitchy with the rudder that far forward

Wouldn't it be less twitchy? Boat pivots on the keel, closer the rudder is to the keel the less leverage it has. Put it way back little angles make big difference, put it right behind the keel and it doesn't do much.

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IIRC, put the rudder all the way aft on a wide transomed boat, and you're making it more likely to lift the root out, giving rise to ventilation. Not good. Keep it forward and it stays in the water.

30052440_808180156045694_671846002463393

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27 minutes ago, sean9c said:

Wouldn't it be less twitchy? Boat pivots on the keel, closer the rudder is to the keel the less leverage it has. Put it way back little angles make big difference, put it right behind the keel and it doesn't do much.

It also requires a higher force (= more drag) to counteract a given turning moment. Think wipe out. Two sides of the same medal really.

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1 hour ago, boyscout said:

How can you tell the jib car is too far aft? No jib leech shots. 

It just looked a bit oversheeted along the foot. Usually that's a sign that the driver wants more jib and the trimmer gave him some by cranking the sheet without letting the car forward a little first. I agree that without seeing the rest of the sail it's tough to tell and it might be perfectly OK - just looked odd in the photo.

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17 hours ago, John Cali said:

Love the chine, reminds me of windsurfing for years in sub-planing conditions, using my hard-chined sailboard, keeping the board (chine) level to the water to maximize chance of getting to plane.

Like A-Cats, with hulls canted out to be as functional as possible when sailing, not sitting still.  Looks weird initially but love how sailing is exponentially evolving.

Flat surface for crew to sit on, yeah.

Less hobby horsing with the bow config., more laminar, less energy lost, more comfort to crew.

Sweet carbon boom, reminds me of a Finn.

Surprised there isn't a rotating foiled mast.

I had more than a few Windsurfing racing long boards that did the chine/tumblehome thing.  Stuffing the chine to leeward really helped a lot going upwind.  I kind of think that if you don’t go with a surfboard bow, this is what you get, without a lot of distortion in the lines.  

Boy, the middle of the stern in is the air when she’s leaning over even 10 degrees.

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5 minutes ago, Wet Spreaders said:

It just looked a bit oversheeted along the foot. Usually that's a sign that the driver wants more jib and the trimmer gave him some by cranking the sheet without letting the car forward a little first. I agree that without seeing the rest of the sail it's tough to tell and it might be perfectly OK - just looked odd in the photo.

I'd like a close look at the "control line" setup, it looks like max "down" there, but it's hard to tell where the usual ring is.

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3 hours ago, Wet Spreaders said:

It just looked a bit oversheeted along the foot. Usually that's a sign that the driver wants more jib and the trimmer gave him some by cranking the sheet without letting the car forward a little first. I agree that without seeing the rest of the sail it's tough to tell and it might be perfectly OK - just looked odd in the photo.

The cars on these boats don't move fore/aft.  The lead moves in/out and up/down - for more precise trim

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On 4/22/2018 at 3:28 PM, jkeeley said:

A perfect example why sailing is declining. Looks real family friendly, and affordable. 

Will say the opposite applies, and the boat looks firightfully spendy, however its VMG.

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

Will say the opposite applies, and the boat looks firightfully spendy, however its VMG.

 

Remember DaWoody's old sigline?  "The wind is free, if you just let it be; but use it for thrust, a fortune's a must!" 

Or something like that...........

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On 4/23/2018 at 10:33 AM, Veeger said:

So besides being wet in a 2-3' chop, won't that shape actually force the bow down into a sea and really tend to slow her with every wave?  I think the number crunchers forgot the reality of the sea in their quest for lightness and nouveau novelty

I thought so too, and so do some others, but if you look at the photos of the boat sailing above you will see that when going upwind the leeward inboard angled camber is actually standing pretty much straight up and so perhaps not presenting a surface that any bow wave can push down on.

And while the windward angled camber does  apparently present a more “shovely” (ie, able to dig into something) attitude to the water when going upwind I think the boat is so shallow up front that  perhaps the bow never really does dig in to anything, rather I would expect it rides softly on the leeward bow.

Downwind is another matter and I can only assume that crew weight in the back of the boat keeps the bow up enough such that it doesn’t submarine.

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14 minutes ago, Parma said:

I thought so too, and so do some others, but if you look at the photos of the boat sailing above you will see that when going upwind the leeward inboard angled camber is actually standing pretty much straight up and so perhaps not presenting a surface that any bow wave can push down on.

And while the windward angled camber does  apparently present a more “shovely” (ie, able to dig into something) attitude to the water when going upwind I think the boat is so shallow up front that  perhaps the bow never really does dig in to anything, rather I would expect it rides softly on the leeward bow.

Downwind is another matter and I can only assume that crew weight in the back of the boat keeps the bow up enough such that it doesn’t submarine.

Look at the vids- the bow pops out more than it digs in upwind- not a bad design dynamic even if it isn’t perfect...

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The design is best suited to multis, IMHO, but fads are fads...time will tell as it did in past with the dreads.

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Well it isn't slow, it just won it's first ever competitive race in the Fast 40 Class... Rebellion second, GOF third. Carkeek seems to be leading the way in the class now. How long will the 100% record last!?

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Not to be argumentative...but...more to it, seems to me.

I must add, with no back up data, just intuitive, the wave-piercer must be near perfect...and I simply do not believe that is predictable...then there is the rest. If it works fine, for those who can afford it and find crew. I sail along, with swill...but love "sailboat porn."

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man .. they pretty much crushed the fleet , winning by 11 points .

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Seems the boats fast....

Good crew on board, some pretty famous old faces appearing throughout!

Whats the class reaction? is everyone putting in a new order for one?

Whats the score with both Pace and GOF? Owners not on board?

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Peter Morton, owner driver for Girls on Film, is recovering from a shoulder operation. Graham Deegan, will be the alternate helm for the first round. The FAST40+ Class wish Morty a speedy recovery. 

From the Fast40 class site explaining Morty was not on board

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1 hour ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

So, to answer the original question...plenty fast!

 

And a plenty expensive crew bill as well.  

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1 hour ago, mad said:

And a plenty expensive crew bill as well.  

 

Bunch of pros, then?

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Just now, billy backstay said:

 

Bunch of pros, then?

There’s a few familiar faces onboard that’s for sure. :ph34r:

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Looks like a very fast and fun class, none in the US, though?  So, is Girls on Film owned by a Porn producer, or just a Duran Duran fan??

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21 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Bunch of pros, then?

Class rules of max 5 cat 3s

A.2.2 LIMITATIONS


World Sailing Regulation 22, World Sailing Sailor Classification Code, shall apply.
The crew shall consist of no more than 5 persons either unclassified or classified as Group 3 under World Sailing Regulation 22, Sailor Classification.
The Class Committee may increase this limit for up to 2 named crew on a specific boat based of a review of the crew member’s classification under the Fast 40+ Class Crew Review Process.

 

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

Looks like a very fast and fun class, none in the US, though?  So, is Girls on Film owned by a Porn producer, or just a Duran Duran fan??

If the owner is Peter Morton, I assume it is the same guy who restored Swuzzle Bubble and a few other IOR tonners

P1030144.JPG

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2 hours ago, mad said:

There’s a few familiar faces onboard that’s for sure. :ph34r:

And some kids too, so that should lower the daily, at least when they get to the bar!

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36 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

If the owner is Peter Morton, I assume it is the same guy who restored Swuzzle Bubble and a few other IOR tonners

P1030144.JPG

Yes, GOF is Morty's.

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1 hour ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

And some kids too, so that should lower the daily, at least when they get to the bar!

ii) a competitor who is over 18 years of age, but under 24 years of age, is a Group 1 competitor provided that he/she has not engaged in any of the activities listed in Regulation 22.2.2 for more than 100 days (for the avoidance of doubt this is calculated on the total period of paid work) in the qualification period (excluding any activities undertaken before his/her 18th birthday).

Best amateurs money can buy? 

(Yes, Group 1=/ amateur. I know.)

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2 hours ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

And some kids too, so that should lower the daily, at least when they get to the bar!

 

WTF??? When I was a BN at age 28, I cost way more at the bar than I do now,  approaching 63 in 5 weeks!!  LOL!!! 

OTOH, those few years did prove that trickle down economics does work for a very few privileged and/or lucky people, like I was, and it was a great ride!!

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5 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

WTF??? When I was a BN at age 28, I cost way more at the bar than I do now,  approaching 63 in 5 weeks!!  LOL!!! 

OTOH, those few years did prove that trickle down economics does work for a very few privileged and/or lucky people, like I was, and it was a great ride!!

Billy, or maybe I should address you as Mr Backstay side to your venerable status with upcoming birthday! The kids are way under 28, so on the pints, no fancy GnTs for them! As an ex BN I know how to rack up a bar bill believe me.

The idea is to bring in younger guys and girls with the Rán to fill the roster as noted above they're limited to 5 Cat 3s. Niklas has previous with this as he had 2 Farr45s previously, Rán and Kolga, the latter was a development boat for Juniors.

As noted by someone further up the page, the Fast40 is a chance for Niklas and Catherine to enjoy some other competitive racing closer to home, work precludes a 10 day regatta away every month for 5 months in Europe, further afield if the 52s are doing the U.S. legs of the tour too, nothing to do with the Cup teams coming through. 

As an aside, if you listen to Ainsley on the latest interview, you'll note there's no mention of 52 sailing going forward, so one less pesky Cup team to worry about.

Now, back to gossiping about the Black boat. 

 

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7 minutes ago, TANGO QUEBEC said:

Billy, or maybe I should address you as Mr Backstay side to your venerable status with upcoming birthday! The kids are way under 28, so on the pints, no fancy GnTs for them! As an ex BN I know how to rack up a bar bill believe me.

The idea is to bring in younger guys and girls with the Rán to fill the roster as noted above they're limited to 5 Cat 3s. Niklas has previous with this as he had 2 Farr45s previously, Rán and Kolga, the latter was a development boat for Juniors.

As noted by someone further up the page, the Fast40 is a chance for Niklas and Catherine to enjoy some other competitive racing closer to home, work precludes a 10 day regatta away every month for 5 months in Europe, further afield if the 52s are doing the U.S. legs of the tour too, nothing to do with the Cup teams coming through. 

As an aside, if you listen to Ainsley on the latest interview, you'll note there's no mention of 52 sailing going forward, so one less pesky Cup team to worry about.

Now, back to gossiping about the Black boat. 

 

 

Thanks for the explanatiion, Tango Quebec!  I sure wish we had some cool boats like that to race on here in the states!.  Not that I would ever have a chance to trim sails on such a high class program.  OTOH, I am very fortunate to be a trimmer, and occasional helmsman, on a sweet little Soverel 27 in PHRF, in the summer months, and an Etchells in the Spring and Fall.  Still, the Fast 40+'s and TP 52's are without a doubt the hottest boat porn out there!!  Way more interesting to me, than foiling AC multihulls .............

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interesting boat, looks like it could be especially effective in a blow. if it's as fast as it looks, the others won't be happy.

IMG_1842.jpg

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Considering the draft, the number of crew needed and the fact that it's only good to race, I wonder how much an obsolete Fast40 is worth.

"Obsolete" defined as: "The other 9 boats at the regatta!"

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21 minutes ago, McGyver said:

Considering the draft, the number of crew needed and the fact that it's only good to race, I wonder how much an obsolete Fast40 is worth.

"Obsolete" defined as: "The other 9 boats at the regatta!"

 

Yes it appears, based on results, that RAN has an extra gear, that no else has yet acquired...

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37 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Yes it appears, based on results, that RAN has an extra gear, that no else has yet acquired...

In order to survive, the Fast40 Class may have to pull a "Dorade" on Ran 7 and make them start behind the others...  :lol:

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20 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

WTF??? When I was a BN at age 28, I cost way more at the bar than I do now,  approaching 63 in 5 weeks!!  LOL!!! 

OTOH, those few years did prove that trickle down economics does work for a very few privileged and/or lucky people, like I was, and it was a great ride!!

We lived in a golden age Billy. These young people today don't even have to deliver the boat, just pack it up and put it on the truck. Now whilst they may think this is great, they missed out on getting the best looking racer chasers to come along for 'the ride'. Never the less 'Team Hollywood' (brand new F40) was snapping at the heels of the countries best funded TP52s in our local offshore race a few weeks back. But with a build price of over $1 mill, 5 pro's to pay and the trucking costs I can't see the argument that this is a cheaper option than a TP program. And Fark they look wet offshore. Randumb would be horrified.

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26 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

We lived in a golden age Billy. These young people today don't even have to deliver the boat, just pack it up and put it on the truck. Now whilst they may think this is great, they missed out on getting the best looking racer chasers to come along for 'the ride'. Never the less 'Team Hollywood' (brand new F40) was snapping at the heels of the countries best funded TP52s in our local offshore race a few weeks back. But with a build price of over $1 mill, 5 pro's to pay and the trucking costs I can't see the argument that this is a cheaper option than a TP program. And Fark they look wet offshore. Randumb would be horrified.

Not even sure if the latest builds are even capable of an offshore without some major mods. Ran doesn’t look fun for 25 knots in the channel with wind over tide!! 

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37 minutes ago, mad said:

Not even sure if the latest builds are even capable of an offshore without some major mods. Ran doesn’t look fun for 25 knots in the channel with wind over tide!! 

Yeah when Hollywood Ray won 1st in cruising division in the Gladstone race (yep they did!) he claimed they were are cruising boat because they had a spar bath and a turbo tub.

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33 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Yeah when Hollywood Ray won 1st in cruising division in the Gladstone race (yep they did!) he claimed they were are cruising boat because they had a spar bath and a turbo tub.

Cross-cut dacron has come a long way.

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