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I've owned J80 hull#132 for a yr and still learning how to sail it well. We sail the boat in PHRF races on Monterey Bay, CA in conditions ranging from light to 20kt winds and mostly choppy seas.  Boat is set up with a 155 Genoa, a 900sq ft running spinnaker and a Code 0.  We also have the full OD configuration. We find it hard to sail the boat to its PHRF rating of 114 with the 155 and large spinnaker, and 117 with OD jib but large kite. 3 questions:

(i) Does anyone have experience in using a Code 0 on an 80 for racing?  Given the loads on the sprit pole (carbon), should it only extended half way? Also thinking of fitting a roller fuller to the Code 0.

(ii) We mostly use the 900sq ft spinnaker (gybing it inside) but find it too heavy in light air and quickly overpowered in anything above 15. Is it better to ditch the large sail and gain 3 secs in rating?

(iii) Has anyone fitted a second spinnaker halyard to an 80?  Any suggestions on how to best change spinnakers with one halyard. 

Apologies posting several questions in one post, but would greatly appreciate feedback

JdP

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Ditch the 155. Boat powers up fine with the OD jib in anything over 5. Certain regions you can play the rating game. For instance, in PHRF-NW you can squeeze in about a 129% jib with no rating hit, but that won't earn the respect of any OD J80s in your fleet.

Personally, I'd just go OD, especially W/L races. Zero may help on other courses. 

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I've sailed on a PHRF J 80 since 2003 in an area that generally has winds in the 5-15 range.  All of our races are point to point, not LW.

We tried the OD configuration for a year and had issues in the light and reaching conditions.  We went to a 135 (North per Jay Lutz) and faired much better.  I agree that in anything other then extremely light the 155 is not the sail you want. 

We also sailed for many years with just a "large" A3 kite as opposed to the class A2.  The A3 gave up some area and some downwind speed, but it was a much better reacher and easier to handle in a breeze.  Overall (for us anyway) the A3 was a lot better runner then the A2 was a reacher and won us many races.

We have carried an Code 0 for many years- some years we even get to use it- once or twice.  Some years it has not come out of the bag.  We use it on the strut full extended, without a lower "brace", which we should have.  We have an old furler that frankly never worked.  We manually furl it and it will unwind, but not wind back up.  Based on our usage and the cost of a new, good furler, it will not be replaced.

Opinions will vary, but I would save money by not buying a furler and look at a smaller headsail and maybe an A3 kite.

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Ditch the 155%. a 135 is just as powerful and you don't backwind the main as easy. 

Code 0- Waste of time. Barber haul the genny out and you will see similar results and buy an A3 or reaching kite for 90-110 AWA.

We played with a max roach mainsail and that proved to be fast. Check you local PHRF board on how hard you are gonna get hit for it. You will need a J70 style flicker and spectra backstay for it to clear.

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Thanks for the useful comments. Decided to stick to the OD jib since acquiring a 135 is not in the cards for the time being. We have an  A3 kite, which  is great for a deep running, we found it to be slow to accelerate coming out of a gybe. Also, dousing it, is always a challenge.  While A3 cost us 3 seconds per mile, it might be worth keep it in the sail configuartion?

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Does anyone have experience keeping the jib up while flying the spinnaker? We are currently sailing in 20+ of breeze, and judging by some videos on YouTube, keeping the jib up seems to give more control. My concern is gybing both the spinnaker and the job at the same time.

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If you are planing, jib out for sure. if you fall off step, Immediately furl the jib and soak into displacement mode. We have found planning starts at around 16-18 TWS. Be Careful, certain death if you heat up 20 degrees trying to plane and can't. Test it sparingly.... 

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Your largest kite is the A2- the class kite.  It will be the "deep runner" and provide you will the best speed at the deepest angles.  They have a low clue.

The A3 is generally smaller with a higher clue and is a better reaching sail and will sail tighter angles then the A2.  If sailing pure OD, the A3 would not be a legal sail.  When sailing PHRF you should not be penalized for an A3.  We did take a 3 second penalty for the 135.

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The  PHRF kite (A3 according to the sailmaker) is 900sq ft, and much larger than the class standard. It has a very low clew and low cut foot. The other spinnaker options is the OD - A2(?) and a Code 0. I only sail in PHRF configuration, and take a OD+3 sec penalty for using the large kit. While the big kite is useful for long, deep downwind legs, it is clumsy through the gybes. Found the the OD kite allows the boat to accelerate faster coming out of a gybe. 

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I'll defer to the knowledge of your sail maker- if he says you've got an oversized running A3- that is what you have.  He built it and has probably forgot more then I know on them.  But- it is contrary to the A3 that North built for us and the information as I see it on the North web site.

https://northsails.com/sailing/en/products/racing-asymmetric-spinnakers

If you have a spinnaker bigger then standard or the PHRF formula, you will get a penalty, as I would expect since yours is bigger then the class kite.  Not a J 80 authority by any means, but I think you might have a unique J 80 spinnaker.  I have not heard of any, or seen any oversized PHRF J 80 spinnakers.  The class kite seems to be more then adequate for any conditions I have seen.  I would not take a penalty for that sail, I'd leave it in the garage.

As they say, your mileage may vary.

 

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I race class legal OD sails all the time.   Our PHRF adjustments are fair and it works out just fine at 126.  We’d rate 116 with a 155% here.  

The polars give a 155% a very small bit of extra speed not much more than 0.1-0.2 knots at best upwind, it seems not to make sense to use one in PHRF.  

Spinnaker wise you could go big but my class legal A2 65m2 - 700 Sq Ft is a big sail to manage, the North MR-5 AP is 60m2 is much easier to use probably because it’s PU Coated.  I’d go that route and then keep the code 0 and find an A3.  

Last thing - Main use a bolt rope, slugs waste speed.  

 

 

 

 

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I don't know how PHRF works and what the penalties are.

We mainly raced under Yardstick on Alpine Lakes in Europe, where we (unfortunately) mostly sail in 0-10Knots of Wind.

We have tried 145% Genua, but ditched it since the speed advantages can't justify the penalty. Furthermore with the Genua you loose the ability to sail in high mode. Compared to older boats with large overlapping Jibs we were always able to sail 10-15 degrees higher where we could compensate a lot.

Especially for Light Winds we have made the experience that very low rig tension powers up the boat very early. Check out the Uk sailmakers tuning guide, its based on low rig tension (Euro Spec)

For the Kite, for W-L racing we always felt underpowered the light racing against Symmetric boats.

We considered a symmetric setup with a traditional pole. There used to be a Symmetric kite from north sails on their OD website, I believe it was a development for match racing.

For W-L the Symmetric is still the fastest option but, the challenge of finding crew that can properly trim a Symmetric and the fact that more hands are needed we decided to get a Quantum OD Kite, but made of 50oz Superlite. 

Another good tick that saves weight on the kite is a "endless" spinnaker sheet, we had one custom made with both ends tapered, saves a couple of meters of line as well.

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Good advice, plus ya'll should be sitting well forward to dig the bow in and raise the arse end out of the water. I believe symmetric kites were used, and may have been developed for, J-World, at least on the left side of the US.

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On 5/15/2018 at 12:23 AM, LCC said:

Your largest kite is the A2- the class kite.  It will be the "deep runner" and provide you will the best speed at the deepest angles.  They have a low clue.

The A3 is generally smaller with a higher clue and is a better reaching sail and will sail tighter angles then the A2.  If sailing pure OD, the A3 would not be a legal sail.  When sailing PHRF you should not be penalized for an A3.  We did take a 3 second penalty for the 135.

As per the OD rules - The A3 is legal if cut to the following dinensions. However, note that boats are allowed to use only one gennaker per event. That makes it a strategic decision. If W/L, then the A2 is obviously superior. If reaching conditions, then clearly the A3 can sail better at higher AWAs but will still sail well if going deep at points on the course and not give up too much ground relative to an A2 in my experience with it. 

We rarely use our A3 reacher but I’ve talked myself into it. We should use it more. Once we have the wind on the beam with the A2, we are overpressed. The A3 would be faster with better control 80-110 AWA. It’s also a good option in heavy conditions off the wind, not being as full in the shoulders, with heavy fabric, less of it and more manageable on sets. Because of the 2 kite rule, we usually leave it in the locker and carry a backup class A2.  However, you really need to make the call before you leave the dock as you can’t fly the A2 and then change to the A3 without shredding the former, which would start to become uneconomical very quickly! 

The reference to keeping the jib up is valid in heavy conditions. We don’t but I can see where it could work if you have trained the crew to manage the strings on gybes. Otherwise furl. >18kts maybe think about it.  On big boats, we furl the SSS pre-gybe. It’s a % game and there’s just more that can go wrong than right for marginal gains I guess. 

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