Monkey Butler

SAILBOAT 35' 1983 CHEOY LEE (PERRY) 35

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On 5/20/2018 at 8:59 PM, Ishmael said:

If you take the matching chock to a good caster, I'm sure they could make a duplicate. I have talked quite a bit to a fellow in a local foundry and the stuff they can do is quite mind-blowing.

Or have one CNC'd. For a lot of this unobtanium stuff, cheaper as well. 

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I put a #45 Rocna on last year and like it although it never got tested by bad conditions. I’m of the Bigger is Better School of Anchoring. The weight difference between 35 and 45 is immaterial to me as far as sailing performance is concerned. There are lots of ways for me to lose boat weight before going to a smaller anchor lol!

The plane blade seems handy. The PO of my boat epoxy coated the bottom but apparently let it cure before adding bottom paint. Consequently, every 6 or 7 years the paint would start to come loose. I’d use a pull scraper and take it all off in about 2 hours. It required more effort to get the inevitable bits that decided to stick and smooth everything off. The last time I used a primer and ablative paint in the hopes that I could eliminate even that amount of work. A miserable job that I’d rather not do if I don’t have to.

 

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16 hours ago, Bull City said:

Kris, would it be possible to touch up some nicks in Awlgrip with a one part urethane? My deck was done in Awlgrip Oyster, and I've got some Total Boat urethane topside paint, which I got for another project, and it's a perfect match color-wise.

Sorry for the thread  drift.

 

I don't know about the compatability , Bull. But I would do it! :) 

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10 hours ago, Monkey Butler said:

If the paint proves too tenacious I'll look into soda blasting but I could use the workout. My arms look like spaghetti compared to Kris Cringle and SailforBeer.

When I discovered mild but extensive "pox" on my bottom (boat's, that is), I had it blasted. The medium was a little more aggressive than soda because we wanted to open up the little pustules. There was also old, hard bottom paint. The blasting was very effective.

As to the physical benefits of "the workout," consult your physician. :) I have spaghetti arms, and the body of a meatball.

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I bought a 45 pounder last year and sleep well. :D  

So far it has set almost instantly every time and it holds onto the planet much better than the old Bruce copy

 FYI, when I received it two of the bolts were of the wrong length.  They answered the phone around 9:00 pm on a Friday night and I had the right bolts the following Tuesday (in Canada).  Color me happy

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2 hours ago, Monkey Butler said:

Look what the Boat Fairy (from Hong Kong) just brought me.

1907661963_ewcleat.jpg.79063f22a28cd173ed0fbb2f1743a6b9.jpg

Awesome! One more item off your list although you may need to dig out the buffing wheel. Mine look the same most of the time lol!

 

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3 hours ago, chester said:
On 5/21/2018 at 8:34 AM, Bob Perry said:

I like "fairlewds" better.

Kind of thought provoking.

or welsh!

Old druggies call them "fairludes".

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I haven't had much free time to spend on the boat but I did manage to do a little exploratory scraping and grinding on the bottom yesterday.

b1.jpg.9ab6545e405191965e6cae36e0df6575.jpg

 

b2.jpg.0d827cefb96caff81def7d4225574b05.jpg

 

Whew boy, this is gonna be fun.

b3.jpg.0083d0f2727b35236fe9898043af9ced.jpg

b4.jpg.04f2b0c3f29dd30b3aa63e19cf4e5594.jpg

 

Haven't found blisters into the mat yet.

 

On 5/29/2018 at 7:00 PM, Ishmael said:

Old druggies call them "fairludes".

 

Bow 714's ???

 

On 5/29/2018 at 5:19 PM, Shoalcove said:

Awesome! One more item off your list although you may need to dig out the buffing wheel. Mine look the same most of the time lol!

 

 

Well, that did turn out better. Barkeepers Friend and a scrubbie...

 

chok1.jpg.ce0b7348ef1de579141fb73af692bbad.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Monkey Butler said:

Haven't found blisters into the mat yet.

I'd look into a media blast, unless you want to torture yourself.

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

I'd look into a media blast, unless you want to torture yourself.

I need to remove the old gel coat. I don't think blasting will do that.

And I AM a glutton for punishment.

IMG_20150627_185539.jpg.f8835275117bb30bbdfd7ca8fe0d1ea3.jpg

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On 5/22/2018 at 5:42 PM, Kris Cringle said:

I've been following this thread and was especially waiting to see the shrink wrap removed. My suspicions were confirmed.

 

The first year we owned our present boat, I stored a very reputable yard in Camden Maine. I had it shrink wrapped. We all (yard, me) knew the boat was Awlgripped but didn't consider how it would be shrink wrapped. They wrapped it right down to the water line, which they told me they did to all boats (this was the year 2000, and they applied awlgrip there, then). 

In the spring when I cut the shrinkwrap off, and water spilled out- that was trapped inside - it was quite a sight. Pox, all over. 

They didn't do a thing for me and I didn't push it (in hindsight, I should have). 

Suffice to say, after 18 years of owning this boat and doing projects of all kinds, the one that REALLY still sticks out in my memory, was removing that bubbled Awlgrip. I was nearly 20 years younger then, and I ache looking at this photo. 

42240596352_2ebe796068_b.jpg

 

Needless to say, I'm a fan of one part paint. :)I always worry down the road, knowing that every coating - no matter what it is - will one day, have to come off. 

I had to look at this picture again and remind myself that that is awlgrip on a fiberglass hull. Kris C. are you really scraping that off, no heat, no chemicals (on the paint)? I need to up my scraper foo.

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37 minutes ago, Monkey Butler said:

I had to look at this picture again and remind myself that that is awlgrip on a fiberglass hull. Kris C. are you really scraping that off, no heat, no chemicals (on the paint)? I need to up my scraper foo.

That looks like a Sandvik carbide scraper. I have two of them, awesome machines without extension cords.

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17 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

That looks like a Sandvik carbide scraper. I have two of them, awesome machines without extension cords.

Thanks. I've used the cheap steel blade hook scrapers and from experience I didn't think they would touch Awlgrip on topsides.

I'll try one of the Sandvik carbide scrapers and let you know how it works for me. 

 

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7 hours ago, Monkey Butler said:

Thanks. I've used the cheap steel blade hook scrapers and from experience I didn't think they would touch Awlgrip on topsides.

I'll try one of the Sandvik carbide scrapers and let you know how it works for me. 

 

Yes, and lots of new blades. I was using a chemical stripper. As I recall (I'm still in denial,...), I left the stripper on an area for 10-15 minutes, the idea being I didn't want to remove all the fairing beneath. I mainly succeeded but this hull, 1961 tech,  is not as fair as more modern casts. I do a little fairing when I re-paint, on a about 4 year intervals. I'm still afraid of Awlgrip. 

 

I watched a Epifanes rep roll a topsides in my yard. Roll only, no tipping, two part. He was very helpful. I'm thinking of an article that will deal with this choice, one part vs two part. Old boats are lining up in the next few years, to be saved by DIY processes like this.

 

It's either solutions like this, or the hull grinder. 

 

josh-dolphin-24-2-jpg.151256

 

Our local Y had their annual boat auction. Every year, the boats get nicer, newer. And the number of old tired boats, that aren't accepted, grows exponentially. A friend bought a late-ish model, fully sail equipped, sailaway 22'-24'er  for $500. Had it been slightly neglected, it would be headed to the dump.  

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216169241612279&set=p.10216169241612279&type=3 

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9 hours ago, Monkey Butler said:

I need to remove the old gel coat. I don't think blasting will do that.

And I AM a glutton for punishment.

IMG_20150627_185539.jpg.f8835275117bb30bbdfd7ca8fe0d1ea3.jpg

You're right on the media blast. When I bought our second J22 (a 1983 boat) in 2007, it was in the midst of a professional bottom job. The yard had peeled the gelcoat with an electric hand tool, maybe a planer. Then the drying process, and then the barrier coat.

BTW, that's not your boat, is it?

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

You're right on the media blast. When I bought our second J22 (a 1983 boat) in 2007, it was in the midst of a professional bottom job. The yard had peeled the gelcoat with an electric hand tool, maybe a planer. Then the drying process, and then the barrier coat.

BTW, that's not your boat, is it?

That boat is a 1965 Allied Seabreeze that I scrapped last year, after I had removed the bottom paint and gelcoat, I mostly used a 7" right angle grinder which I became pretty proficient at using. I think I am resigned to repeating the process on this hull.

The Paint Shaver and Gel Plane look attractive but I might do more damage than good with something like that during the learning phase.

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12 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Yes, and lots of new blades. I was using a chemical stripper. As I recall (I'm still in denial,...), I left the stripper on an area for 10-15 minutes, the idea being I didn't want to remove all the fairing beneath. I mainly succeeded but this hull, 1961 tech,  is not as fair as more modern casts. I do a little fairing when I re-paint, on a about 4 year intervals. I'm still afraid of Awlgrip.

I took a closer look at my topsides. There are a lot more bubbles in the Awlgrip than I saw at first glance. It looks like I'll be repainting. Of course that means getting the old stuff off first. I think I'll try your method. I've already decided against Awlgrip. Stuff happens, I want something repairable. My interpretation of repairable is something where a defect or damage can be repainted and/or sanded and buffed to restore the finish.

12 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

I watched a Epifanes rep roll a topsides in my yard. Roll only, no tipping, two part. He was very helpful. I'm thinking of an article that will deal with this choice, one part vs two part. Old boats are lining up in the next few years, to be saved by DIY processes like this.

I agree. Having paint systems available to the average boat owner that deliver quality finishes make a lot of tired boats more viable as projects. I looked at the Epifanes two part product on the Jamestown Distributors site. They had an application video with the same factory rep. I couldn't find anything one way or the other that said if it was repairable.

In addition to the one part vs two part debate I'd also like to throw in spray vs brush. I realize that where the boat is located may rule out spraying but for someone who in a position to spray it presents some options. I am considering Awlcraft 2000 (maybe just because I'm an MST 3000 fan) as it is more durable than one part and also repairable but it can only be sprayed. In my vast experience I rolled and tipped a dinghy and a two outboard motor covers. I found the tipping part somewhat tedious. I was going to roll and tip the topsides of my old O'Day Mariner with Petit Easypoxy 2 but thinking ahead to doing the topsides and cockpit I cringed at the thought of all the angles and trying to keep a wet edge. Spraying seemed to make sense so I tried it on the hull which I did first. I really liked spraying better than roll and tip. I used a HVLP gun but I wasn't proficient enough to get perfect results and wound up with some orange peel. I switched to a conventional gun and the problem went away. Sometime after that I found a post on another website that I'll C&P below.

https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/fiberglass-paint/314088-roll-tip-painting.htm

"I have been rolling and tipping paint on hulls along with varnish for 2 plus decades and personally if I was you ,I would DA prep the substrate with 150 grit,spot fill any problems with 3m premium filler,,,hire a guy to shoot Awlgrip 545 primer,6 coats cut 25 percent (or do it yourself) ,,,DA sand that with 320 grit for light colors or 400 grit for darker colors and spray Awlcraft 2000 topcoat,,,3 to 4 base coats cut 30 percent or 15 seconds on a # 2 Zahn cup ,then 2 coats mixed 50/50 with acrylic clear (reduce clear to 35 percent after catalyzing or 12 to 13 seconds with a # 2 Zahn cup ) and color or for a wetter look go 80 percent clear/20 percent color.Use a conventional gun and spray at 55 to 60 pounds at the tip,,,you will end up with less orange peel then an HVLP gun and it will be a quicker learning curve for you...The amount of time and money you will spend rolling and tipping and sanding between each coat and then wet sanding and compounding is not worth it IMHO,,,,You can spray the Awlcraft 2000 yourself,,,it is Repairable so if you do run it ,it can be wet sanded and compounded very easily."

The poster knew in advance the spraying issue I encountered and his comment about the learning curve for conventional is spot on. Yes I'll be shooting more product into the air but for a one time DIY job that should be inconsequential. At first it seems like a lot of coats but the recoat times are short and I think primer and topcoat can be done in a day for each.

I've never seen any recommendation about the final coats of mixed clear/color and really hope that one of the pros here will share their knowledge. 

 

12 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

It's either solutions like this, or the hull grinder. 

I know, I threw an Allied Seabreeze in the dumpster last year.

12 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

 

josh-dolphin-24-2-jpg.151256

Looks great, who did all the surface prep?

12 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Our local Y had their annual boat auction. Every year, the boats get nicer, newer. And the number of old tired boats, that aren't accepted, grows exponentially. A friend bought a late-ish model, fully sail equipped, sailaway 22'-24'er  for $500. Had it been slightly neglected, it would be headed to the dump.  

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216169241612279&set=p.10216169241612279&type=3 

I can't get the link to work but I follow what you're saying. The clock is ticking on many "needs TLC" boats out there.

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The owner prepped the hull (a Dolphin 24) and rolled on the 2 part primer -sanded. It does look great but if you're close to the hull, like these guys are, you can see the roller stiple. Had the conditions been perfect (the challenge to painting outside is all in the weather conditions), it may have flowed out better. I'd still tip the surface from my experience watching this demo. The rep spent more time with the roller than I do with rolling and tipping. His technique was a very light pressure on the roller which required a lot of rolling for an even coating. 

 

You can always see brush marks even in the best roll and tip coating(pro painters at the boatyard),  if you're eyes are a few inches from the topsides. But, as soon as the hull is floating, light reflecting off the surface of the water, even a B quality roll and tip looks flawless. 

 

There is now an 'enchancer' you can add to Easypoxy. I have no idea what it is or what it's claims are but I think it shows that more options in one part paints are sought after.

 

On time, my daughter and I roll and tipped the topside on my 38'er in four hours. Prep work before hand of course amounted to more hours. But prep is what you want it to be. With one part, you should do a total prep of the surface, like you mean it. With one part,...there's always another time when hopefully my daughter will be around (I usually do the rolling and tipping myself). 

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7 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

There is now an 'enchancer' you can add to Easypoxy. I have no idea what it is or what it's claims are but I think it shows that more options in one part paints are sought after.

I used EasyPoxy 2, which was a two part supposedly like perfection. Apparently it has been discontinued. Seems it got bad reviews from the pros.

I got decent results with it, maybe I'm better than I think I am!

7 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

The owner prepped the hull (a Dolphin 24) and rolled on the 2 part primer -sanded. It does look great but if you're close to the hull, like these guys are, you can see the roller stiple. Had the conditions been perfect (the challenge to painting outside is all in the weather conditions), it may have flowed out better. I'd still tip the surface from my experience watching this demo.

Brush marks I can take because everyone has seen brush marks in paint. But roller stipple? Who leaves roller stipple when you can always brush it out (leaving brush marks)? Does it look weird? I'm sure the finish looks fine but I'm just curious what paint critics think when they see bumps instead of lines.

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7 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

On time, my daughter and I roll and tipped the topside on my 38'er in four hours. Prep work before hand of course amounted to more hours. But prep is what you want it to be. With one part, you should do a total prep of the surface, like you mean it. With one part,...there's always another time when hopefully my daughter will be around (I usually do the rolling and tipping myself). 

Aren't daughters great.

IMG_20150627_152408.jpg.014c41b78812ba30bb36ca4e068a9165.jpg

Unfortunately she must have looked too good in Tyvek. Some handsome guy swept her off her feet and took her to Florida.

 

 

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