Boybland

4 Solid Teams, this thing is on!

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10 hours ago, Indio said:

Maybe the first of the 5 sock puppets in Bermuda. ETNZ executed their first perfect foiling tack 4 days after they launched in Auckland - that's a fact!

and still after softbank

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm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16 hours ago, sclarke said:

lol and you getting involved in someone else's conversation just to throw around insults is just a way for you to cover up the fact that you're a little bitch, but you don't even do a very good job of it, so piss off bitch.

Christ, you are pathetic.  SA is all about getting involved in conversations, invited or otherwise.

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23 hours ago, inebriated said:

and still after softbank

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm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On 5/5/2018 at 11:40 AM, Monkey said:

I just hope the New Zealand taxpayers get an apology from Grant for all that empty space where the vaporware challengers are “”supposed” to go. I’d hate to think he oversold it. 

And that's keeping you awake at night because???

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On 3/05/2018 at 8:34 AM, Stingray~ said:

Despite GD’s constant, accusatory BS about them they provided no help whatsoever to OR

Practising starts was seen as a hindrance no doubt.

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On 3/05/2018 at 8:41 AM, Stingray~ said:

They ‘pre-start practiced’ on maybe two evenings, after the wind died down, after (iirc) ETNZ was already up by 3-1.

All through the Challenger finals according to Ken Read in his race commentary. Just what the fuck is this? Revisionism 101?

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4 minutes ago, Meatbomb said:

 Just what the fuck is this? Revisionism 101?

His special skill area......

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7 hours ago, Indio said:

And that's keeping you awake at night because???

It isn’t. It’s just fun to annoy SClarke. I personally don’t care that it’s only four teams and won’t resort to the bitching about that the way a few fan boys did the last few cycles. 

New Zealand will limit sponsor appeal, which will limit teams. So be it. It’s in their home waters, where it should be. 

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

It isn’t. It’s just fun to annoy SClarke. I personally don’t care that it’s only four teams and won’t resort to the bitching about that the way a few fan boys did the last few cycles. 

New Zealand will limit sponsor appeal, which will limit teams. So be it. It’s in their home waters, where it should be. 

NZs time zone is arguably more broadcaster/sponsor friendly than Bermuda tho bud.

#welcometoworldsport

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

I personally don’t care that it’s only four teams and won’t resort to the bitching about that the way a few fan boys did the last few cycles. 

 

If you use Indio rethoric, there is only one team in AC35, all the others are sockpuppets :)

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19 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If you use Indio rethoric, there is only one team in AC35, all the others are sockpuppets :)

Why bother?

It's rhetoric

They were "poodles"

And currently none have signed up to another framework agreement like last time so all are independent, and in sure Indio would agree.

The last debate rests with which of ETNZ or LR are each other's poodles, which everyone agrees must be the case but no one can decide on who is who.

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

The last debate rests with which of ETNZ or LR are each other's poodles, which everyone agrees must be the case but no one can decide on who is who.

We agree on that, but Indio would probably scream that LR is the poodle, and as he is usually wrong... ;)

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50 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

We agree on that, but Indio would probably scream that LR is the poodle, and as he is usually wrong... ;)

So to be clear, your position is that ETNZ are the poodle because they were obligated to accept LR as CoR due to LR's "support" of ETNZ in the previous cycles?

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11 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

So to be clear, your position is that ETNZ are the poodle because they were obligated to accept LR as CoR due to LR's "support" of ETNZ in the previous cycles?

I have no evidence but it seems pretty obvious that they were obligated to accept LR because of some kind of agreement in exchange of their help. 

Was it technical ? monetary ? we will probably never know.

 

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16 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I have no evidence but it seems pretty obvious that they were obligated to accept LR because of some kind of agreement in exchange of their help. 

Was it technical ? monetary ? we will probably never know.

 

Defenders are obligated to accept the first CoR that comes your way. So let's agree that ETNZ engineered it so that LR's was the first they received, and assume that was part of a deal with LR.

How does this make ETNZ any more of a poodle to this CoR than they would be to any other CoR - if by some magic they managed to get in first?

 

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56 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Defenders are obligated to accept the first CoR that comes your way. So let's agree that ETNZ engineered it so that LR's was the first they received, and assume that was part of a deal with LR.

How does this make ETNZ any more of a poodle to this CoR than they would be to any other CoR - if by some magic they managed to get in first?

 

Because the choice of the CoR would have been imposed to the Defender. But we will never have those evidences.

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25 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Because the choice of the CoR would have been imposed to the Defender. But we will never have those evidences.

I'm not sure I know what you mean? For the purposes of discussion I'm happy to extend that the choice of CoR was imposed on the defender as a result of the 'deal'.

My question is, given that - and LR is now the CoR, how does this make ETNZ their poodle any more than ETNZ would be the poodle of another CoR should there have been one who turned up without any deal and got to lodge first?

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21 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean? For the purposes of discussion I'm happy to extend that the choice of CoR was imposed on the defender as a result of the 'deal'.

My question is, given that - and LR is now the CoR, how does this make ETNZ their poodle any more than ETNZ would be the poodle of another CoR should there have been one who turned up without any deal and got to lodge first?

We agree on the first statement.

For the second it depends on the definition of a poodle.

1) If poodle is linked to the choice of the CoR, then your question could apply to a challenger poodle : ex: "given that they are X is now the CoR, how does this make them their poodle any more than another CoR ?" If the answer is yes then it can also apply to TNZ. My answer would be that it is not a poodle but a hip pocket challenger.

2) If the definition of a poodle is a challenger or defender controlled by the other, then we have to know if TNZ is controlled by some secret agreement. We don't know. We have one evidence, the choice of the boat could have been imposed by the italians, but again, we don't know, and some claim it that GD would have gone with a mono from the beginning.

So, IMO, if definition 2 applies, then we need some more decisions to understand who decides.

 

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Ok... I think I *kinda* got you... point 1) is a bit weirdly phrased, but I think I got there. I'm not sure my question was a 'yes/no' though - that still confuses me - I was asking for an explanation as to how beyond the initial agreement to accept them as CoR, this ETNZ/LR situation makes ETNZ more of a poodle than any other Defence/CoR situation.

It's probably a bit late to re-litigate the definition of poodle here, but I think we'd both agree it implies a team that is under control or duress from another, to act in ways that are not directly connected to it's own success. So to your points.

1. Hip-pocket challenger no doubt, and even potentially by agreement during previous cycles. Agreed!

2a. There is no information to suggest that ETNZ is controlled by LR any more than any other previous defender has been by their own CoR. Agreed!

2b. Unless there is some 'secret contract' that goes beyond CoR - which if it exists at all, appears to do so only in the twisted minds of a few.

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Sums it up nicely.

We don't have any proof but P$B would be a fool not sot have given without reciprocity, and he is no fool. The first part is the prot, the second may be the boat, the other we come later.

As some tell it nicely " We are not used to see a strong CoR".

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Sums it up nicely.

We don't have any proof but P$B would be a fool not sot have given without reciprocity, and he is no fool. The first part is the prot, the second may be the boat, the other we come later.

As some tell it nicely " We are not used to see a strong CoR".

Perhaps all PB wanted was to be a CoR with a decent defender, looks like he finally got that. No fool there, his plan worked out.

To suggest that ETNZ were prepared to concede anything else in their pursuit to win the cup blindly ignores every action ETNZ has taken prior to AC36 - which was, to never concede anything in their pursuit and ongoing quest for the cup.

It would be bizarre for those that have accused ETNZ for years of being contrarian arseholes entirely and blindly focussed on winning  (to the detriment of the "sport" and their relationship with others), to now suggest that ETNZ are really just in it for cuddles with LR and are somehow compromised. 

ETNZ agreed for LR to be CoR and both agreed that the AC should be in monos (as both GD and PB expressed independently, publicly). There is nothing more to this.

" We are not used to see a strong CoR". We have no idea how strong LR are, and no doubt they won't be as strong as others in the past. Certainly an easy statement to make then the recent CoRs bailed, or became poodles. We actually have a return to a proper CoR, it's just the RedBullBoyz don't have the provenance to respect it.

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8 hours ago, rh2600 said:

ETNZ agreed for LR to be CoR and both agreed that the AC should be in monos (as both GD and PB expressed independently, publicly). There is nothing more to this.

The way that P$B explained it in the ‘surprise’ interview that caught ETNZ a little off guard, there was most definitely ‘more to this.’ He said emphatically that it (monohulls) was done in return for the help LR had given to ETNZ. 

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Which was then denied, (or walked back if you prefer), by the LR spokespersons.

So we can all play "pick a quote"  forever :D

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It is not plausible to argue that a team that had a demonstrable lead in winged foiling cat design would, all by itself, say "well that was fun, now let's surrender that advantage and do something entirely different".

Of course there was an understanding with LR. Nothing wrong with that, other than that it is not harmonious with the shrill outcry of some over the London Framework Agreement.

 

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"There was no requirement put in place by Luna Rossa for ETNZ/RNZYS to go to monohulls for AC36". Binetti Spinetti, LR Spokesdude ;)

See how that works!?

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

It is not plausible to argue that a team that had a demonstrable lead in winged foiling cat design would, all by itself, say "well that was fun, now let's surrender that advantage and do something entirely different".

Of course there was an understanding with LR. Nothing wrong with that, other than that it is not harmonious with the shrill outcry of some over the London Framework Agreement.

 

ETNZ never agreed with multihulls because they never believed enough of the sailing community was participating in multihulls. Dalton believes that 80% of participation in sailing is in Monohulls rather than Multi's. He stated that much during the protocol announcement. 

This is an interview taken way back in 2011 05:06 Dalton talks about having to use cranes to launch the 72's. Admittedly he is talking about the 72's but using full size building cranes to launch Dalton thinks is "silly"

 

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15 minutes ago, sclarke said:

ETNZ never agreed with multihulls because they never believed enough of the sailing community was participating in multihulls.

 

I guess he believes more of the sailing community is participating in flying monohulls.

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14 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I guess he believes more of the sailing community is participating in flying monohulls.

There have been multihulls for perhaps one day less than there have been monohulls.

Foiling and flying is relatively new to both.

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6 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

There have been multihulls for perhaps one day less than there have been monohulls.

Foiling and flying is relatively new to both.

... which demonstrates the fallacy of the argument.

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7 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

... which demonstrates the fallacy of the argument.

Actually demonstrates how ETNZ have managed to incorporate the best of both worlds. Something Oracle and Larry were never able to do.

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7 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

... which demonstrates the fallacy of the argument.

Not at all - his statement still stands.

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This is a serious question.  How is the JC75 the "best of both worlds"?  Based on animations of the JC75 it looks like the only reason its a mono hull is because Patrizio the Poodle wanted a mono hull.  Multi-hull still looks like the most efficient platform for boats that size to foil.  Or am I wrong?

Another serious question, how are the JC75 going to be lowered into the water?  Drawings in the venue thread shows a crane similar to what was needed to launch an AC50.  Looks more like cranes are a necessity rather than just silly.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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42 minutes ago, WetHog said:

This is a serious question.  How is the JC75 the "best of both worlds"?  Based on animations of the JC75 it looks like the only reason its a mono hull is because Patrizio the Poodle wanted a mono hull.  Multi-hull still looks like the most efficient platform for boats that size to foil.  Or am I wrong?

Another serious question, how are the JC75 going to be lowered into the water?  Drawings in the venue thread shows a crane similar to what was needed to launch an AC50.  Looks more like cranes are a necessity rather than just silly.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Dalton and ETNZ have stated on Multiple occasions that they believe Multihulls were still a niche part of the sport. They were never convinced that Multi's were the way forward in the Americas Cup, and only went that route because that's what the Class Rule dictated at that time. They either developed a winning mutihull or they didn't enter the Cup. It was that simple. The majority of the sailing community from grass roots up are still sailing Monohulls, which is what Dalton stated at the protocol announcement.  

How is this the best of both worlds? I think that's relatively easy to see, the new concept incorporates the speed and excitement, technology and skill of foiling coupled with the Class Rule dictating the new boat is a monohull.

Whether this concept works the way it should remains to be seen, but I think those who enjoyed the AC50's and AC72's were so disappointed with the fact that Multihulls were not preferred and have chosen to write off the new concept as not being workable, and being Patrizio "The poodles" Idea when in reality they know the Monohull was always ETNZ's preferred option.

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On 04/05/2018 at 10:16 PM, Indio said:

Maybe the first of the 5 sock puppets in Bermuda. ETNZ executed their first perfect foiling tack 4 days after they launched in Auckland - that's a fact!

XD. TNZ's first foiling tack was (apparently) on the little silver boat from their italien friends. Sometimes it pays to listen to what the teams say, even if most of it is pee-arrrr.

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21 hours ago, rh2600 said:

2a. There is no information to suggest that ETNZ is controlled by LR any more than any other previous defender has been by their own CoR. Agreed!

2b. Unless there is some 'secret contract' that goes beyond CoR - which if it exists at all, appears to do so only in the twisted minds of a few.

We don't know if there was a secret agreement, agreed.

However I always found this paragraph a bit disturbing. What would we have said if GGYC could have decided to change the fees any time at their onw discretion ?

Here the CoR can do it with the approval of the defender. Who imposed that clause ? it can only be LR, mitigated by the approval of TNZ... 

2.1.            COR may require additional funds from each Challenger in the form of cash, a performance bond, or a letter of credit, for the purpose of ensuring Challengers' participation in the CSS. Those funds or financial instruments may be required at such time and in such amount as is determined by COR and approved by RNZYS.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

We don't know if there was a secret agreement, agreed.

However I always found this paragraph a bit disturbing. What would we have said if GGYC could have decided to change the fees any time at their onw discretion ?

Here the CoR can do it with the approval of the defender. Who imposed that clause ? it can only be LR, mitigated by the approval of TNZ... 

2.1.            COR may require additional funds from each Challenger in the form of cash, a performance bond, or a letter of credit, for the purpose of ensuring Challengers' participation in the CSS. Those funds or financial instruments may be required at such time and in such amount as is determined by COR and approved by RNZYS.

Why are you so desperate to find the da vinci code in basic legal contracts?

Should the challenger series have a cost blow-out, then the CoR can ask the challengers to chip in more,  but the the CoR has to get the Defender to OK it.

Next...

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2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Why are you so desperate to find the da vinci code in basic legal contracts?

Should the challenger series have a cost blow-out, then the CoR can ask the challengers to chip in more,  but the the CoR has to get the Defender to OK it.

Next...

This is your interpretation or speculation, bad Ernesto and Larry had a challenger forum.

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41 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

This is your interpretation or speculation, bad Ernesto and Larry had a challenger forum.

Nope, it's written there in careful clear English so as to remove any need for wild interpretation or speculation - but you will need to have a decent grasp of the English language, and the consequences of specific words and wording... here, I break it down for your digestion

COR may require additional funds from each Challenger ... .

"Each" challenger, not "any" challenger or "some" or even "a", but each, each - you can tell someone was very deliberate about these words - and so clearly all will need to chip in

"for the purpose of ensuring Challengers' participation in the CSS"

the only application can be for being able to be run CSS properly (ie every challenger is given the opportunity to participate)
again, note the apostrophe at the end of challenger meaning *all* ie this is used for when there isn't enough money for the series to let all challengers participate, ie they are running out of money to host/run the CSS event. This isn't about shaking down one challenger, it can only be applied to all, and only for the reason that not all can participate.

 

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16 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Nope, it's written there in careful clear English so as to remove any need for wild interpretation or speculation - but you will need to have a decent grasp of the English language, and the consequences of specific words and wording... here, I break it down for your digestion

COR may require additional funds from each Challenger ... .

"Each" challenger, not "any" challenger or "some" or even "a", but each, each - you can tell someone was very deliberate about these words - and so clearly all will need to chip in

"for the purpose of ensuring Challengers' participation in the CSS"

the only application can be for being able to be run CSS properly (ie every challenger is given the opportunity to participate)
again, note the apostrophe at the end of challenger meaning *all* ie this is used for when there isn't enough money for the series to let all challengers participate, ie they are running out of money to host/run the CSS event. This isn't about shaking down one challenger, it can only be applied to all, and only for the reason that not all can participate.

 

English may be your mother language but you need to have decent grasp of the protocol, that can be changed any time by CoR-Defender. So it's your interpretation of a doc that you think is stable, but is not.

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29 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

English may be your mother language but you need to have decent grasp of the protocol, that can be changed any time by CoR-Defender. So it's your interpretation of a doc that you think is stable, but is not.

Nice try, but you were using those specific words to make your case... and now you are saying those words don't matter at all because they can be changed at any time to say what you originally though the words were saying?

Fuck me that is some genuinely mental gymnastics to avoid any chance of discovering your position on the matter might not be 100% sound eh.

With that type of logic I can argue that ETNZ and LR have agreed to carry out a full ritual disembowelling of any participant who wears yellow undies, then point to any clause in the protocol and say "This is proof!" and when someone points out those words describe the broadcast rights I could simply respond "Wrong! Because at any time they could agree to change these words to say that they are going to gut anyone in yellow jocks! And you can't prove they can't"

Fuck me dead...

tenor.gif

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10 hours ago, nav said:

"There was no requirement put in place by Luna Rossa for ETNZ/RNZYS to go to monohulls for AC36". Binetti Spinetti, LR Spokesdude ;)

See how that works!?

I said "understanding", not "requirement". Anyone who thinks those are the same presumably thinks if your wife says "You can do that if you want", she means "It's OK if you do that". Which, as most men know, would be a big, big mistake.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

English may be your mother language but you need to have decent grasp of the protocol, that can be changed any time by CoR-Defender. So it's your interpretation of a doc that you think is stable, but is not.

 

2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

This is your interpretation or speculation, bad Ernesto and Larry had a challenger forum.

Are you "having" another moment here. The wording is very specific. The COR may only require additional funds for the purpose of ensuring Challengers' participation in the CSS. . Where's the problem there? If the money is not to ensure participation, they cannot demand it. If it is to ensure participation, who could claim it is a bad thing.

Parsing the English language has never been a strong suite of yours, despite your constant efforts to do so.

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I think the issue is that a cost to participate , a entry fee if you will , has been established . Apparently this protocol item states that if the Cor and Defender decide somewhere down the road that for some reason they want more money , beyond what was agreed to, they could demand it and if it was not paid then exclude the “offending “ team from further participation . 

So for example if at some point in the future there is nothing to prevent the two camps getting together and deciding that another 25 mill sounds like a good number . If one of the teams can’t come up with it then out they go . Now I know that doesn’t sound fair and we know the AC is all about fairness but the mechanism is apparently in place for it to be a perfectly legal maneuver . 

This AC is already breaking new ground :) 

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6 minutes ago, maxmini said:

I think the issue is that a cost to participate , a entry fee if you will , has been established . Apparently this protocol item states that if the Cor and Defender decide somewhere down the road that for some reason they want more money , beyond what was agreed to, they could demand it and if it was not paid then exclude the “offending “ team from further participation . 

So for example if at some point in the future there is nothing to prevent the two camps getting together and deciding that another 25 mill sounds like a good number . If one of the teams can’t come up with it then out they go . Now I know that doesn’t sound fair and we know the AC is all about fairness but the mechanism is apparently in place for it to be a perfectly legal maneuver . 

This AC is already breaking new ground :) 

Sing along with me!

"There is nothing to prevent anything...dee-dah!
We are all astral-planing... dee-dee-dah!
Pass the bong this LSD is waning - dah-dah-dee!"

When ETNZ and LR get together and decide to shake-down a challenger for cash like some back-alley hoodlums then we'll entertain discussion, but it's going to be a long road if this forum is going to simply be a log random ideas on what could be done, and who could do it, and whether its cricket or not.

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10 hours ago, WetHog said:

Another serious question, how are the JC75 going to be lowered into the water?  Drawings in the venue thread shows a crane similar to what was needed to launch an AC50.  Looks more like cranes are a necessity rather than just silly.

The difference is that the JC75 shouldn't use the crane every day (in principle) and spend the night like a boat should, in the water. Berthing is probably one of the limiting factor for the emergence of multihulls in the general public, it takes so much place and parking fees at the marina aren't small... 

Whether it succeeds or fails, those JC75 should be interesting either way.

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1 hour ago, maxmini said:

I think the issue is that a cost to participate , a entry fee if you will , has been established . Apparently this protocol item states that if the Cor and Defender decide somewhere down the road that for some reason they want more money , beyond what was agreed to, they could demand it and if it was not paid then exclude the “offending “ team from further participation . 

So for example if at some point in the future there is nothing to prevent the two camps getting together and deciding that another 25 mill sounds like a good number . If one of the teams can’t come up with it then out they go . Now I know that doesn’t sound fair and we know the AC is all about fairness but the mechanism is apparently in place for it to be a perfectly legal maneuver . 

Sorry, but that does not stack up. The wording is very specific. The money can only be demanded if it can be shown that it is needed to ensure participation. There is no argument that would stack up that says another $25m is needed to ensure participation, unless it can be shown that without that amount, the event won't happen. You seem to be implying that the COR and defender can simply pluck a figure out of the air with no justification and that is not so.

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59 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Sing along with me!

"There is nothing to prevent anything...dee-dah!
We are all astral-planing... dee-dee-dah!
Pass the bong this LSD is waning - dah-dah-dee!"

When ETNZ and LR get together and decide to shake-down a challenger for cash like some back-alley hoodlums then we'll entertain discussion, but it's going to be a long road if this forum is going to simply be a log random ideas on what could be done, and who could do it, and whether its cricket or not.

Well done!   Perfect.  You saved me the trouble of responding!

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1 minute ago, Lakrass said:

The difference is that the JC75 shouldn't use the crane every day (in principle)

In principal, they didn't need to pull the AC50's out every day, but they did because they could and it was easy. For the AC75's, you still need a crane to step the mast and some sort of hoist (crane?) to launch the boat. If they want the boat in the workshop each evening, they will have to use a crane.  They will want to check the foils each day for any damage or scratches, because even relatively mild scratches can effect foiling performance at teh speeds they will be doing. How practical that will be on the water is open to conjecture. It's my belief that they will be dry sailing the boats and there is a high chance of them pulling th rig so the boats can be fettled in the workshop, particularly because with changeable conditions in Aukland.

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On 5/4/2018 at 9:40 PM, dogwatch said:

^

You do realise you are not going to have the last word on this, don't you?

Thanks for that.  Yes I considered it and decided to toughie out for a few more rounds.

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   On 5/5/2018 at 11:40 AM,  Monkey said: 

I just hope the New Zealand taxpayers get an apology from Grant for all that empty space where the vaporware challengers are “”supposed” to go. I’d hate to think he oversold it. 

Not bloody likely!  Still about seven weeks for acceptance of challenges plus additional time for challengers prepared to make  big penalty payment.

More importantly, seven weeks from now the processing of the Resource Consent will still be under way. Lilkely all the tanks, associated piping and infrastructure will still be intact and untouched. Cost of the Consent is largely fixed. Peanuts for including/excluding paperwork provisions three extra bases. Anyway, a necessary insurance.

Even if no-one shows up, the Resource Consent will provide an option for Auckland Council and Panaku to press ahead with planned and long overdue cleanup and remediation of the noxious nasties..

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7 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Nice try, but you were using those specific words to make your case...

Those specific words tell that the CoR can change the amount at will, and some others that the CoR-defender can change the prot at will. That hard to understand in english ?

Easy to find a sponsor for a $ 100M with those conditions ? Most unbalanced protocol in decades for competitors.

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5 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

1) Sorry, but that does not stack up. The wording is very specific. The money can only be demanded if it can be shown that it is needed to ensure participation.

2) There is no argument that would stack up that says another $25m is needed to ensure participation, unless it can be shown that without that amount, the event won't happen. You seem to be implying that the COR and defender can simply pluck a figure out of the air with no justification and that is not so.

 

1) Can you define "needed to ensure participation" ?

2) No, they could decide to make a big developement considered as necessary, and the protocol can also be changed whenever.

I don't say they will do it, but the total lack of voice for the competitors won't help to find sponsors. It's their right, but it does not help.

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15 hours ago, sclarke said:

Dalton and ETNZ have stated on Multiple occasions that they believe Multihulls were still a niche part of the sport. They were never convinced that Multi's were the way forward in the Americas Cup, and only went that route because that's what the Class Rule dictated at that time. They either developed a winning mutihull or they didn't enter the Cup. It was that simple. The majority of the sailing community from grass roots up are still sailing Monohulls, which is what Dalton stated at the protocol announcement.  

How is this the best of both worlds? I think that's relatively easy to see, the new concept incorporates the speed and excitement, technology and skill of foiling coupled with the Class Rule dictating the new boat is a monohull.

Whether this concept works the way it should remains to be seen, but I think those who enjoyed the AC50's and AC72's were so disappointed with the fact that Multihulls were not preferred and have chosen to write off the new concept as not being workable, and being Patrizio "The poodles" Idea when in reality they know the Monohull was always ETNZ's preferred option.

I was never thrilled with multi-hulls in the AC.  DoG match is one thing, full Challenger regatta, I wasn't a big fan.  So I wasn't disappointed when GD and The Poodle were saying mono-hull.  But what is the point of going mono-hull if the hull will never touch the water, or should never touch the water, during racing?  Mono-hull doesn't appear to be a more efficient platform to foil at that size compared to multi-hulls.  And GD can say multi-hull is a niche part of the sport all he wants but how many average Joe's are sailing boats that look like a JC75?  None.  So GD and The Poodle are creating their own niche of the sport.

If they wanted mono-hull to get the AC back to the sailing masses then they should of went the TP52 route.  It would of been cheaper, it would of attracted more than 1 and 1/2 teams at this point and it would of been a true mono-hull.  Instead, hypocrisy rules the day and maybe we'll get a decent regatta out of the JC75 but maybe we won't.  Just disappointing for those of us who miss the days of AC32 with a large Challenger fleet and a lot of cool mono-hulls being revealed and tested.  Guess we just need to finally accept that those days are gone forever.  

WetHog  :ph34r:  

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9 hours ago, rh2600 said:

 

When ETNZ and LR get together and decide to shake-down a challenger for cash like some back-alley hoodlums then we'll entertain discussion, but it's going to be a long road if this forum is going to simply be a log random ideas on what could be done, and who could do it, and whether its cricket or not.

Ahhh. I will keep that in mind. Funny now that the shoe is on the other foot we can only have these discussion after the abuse has occurred. I guess we can't think up every possible abuse in advance like you kiwi fucktards did when Oracle held the cup and discuss them ad infinitum?

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OK listen up dudes...

In AC35 you had to organise a performance bond up front.

Performance Bond means the performance bond in the amount of
US$1,000,000 (one million United States Dollars) to be provided and
maintained by each Competitor pursuant to Article 16.4(b) and Article
18;

 

This time they have said don't bother doing anything in advance, but we'll leave this option on the table just in case someone decides to pack a sad.

Simple, clear, and a lot less onerous than the BS Protocol IM and Russ cooked up between them - and then changed, and changed, and changed again.......

OK TC?....you whiner;)

 

 

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At least with putting up a set amount at the beginning you knew where you stood .

Telling someone to come on in and join the party and we will let you know what it costs later is no where near as fair a plan , nor does it encourage others to play as well . 

No one is going to buy that explanation , spin it another way as that one doesn’t fly at all. 

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2 hours ago, maxmini said:

At least with putting up a set amount at the beginning you knew where you stood .

Telling someone to come on in and join the party and we will let you know what it costs later is no where near as fair a plan , nor does it encourage others to play as well . 

No one is going to buy that explanation , spin it another way as that one doesn’t fly at all. 

Illiterate yanks :(

Costs? What the hell are you on about?!

 

And as for you knew where you stood - signed any hosting agreements lately Dr. General?  Or changed any unchangable class rules? Or the wind limits. Or the COR. The host country. etc.......

:lol:

Puleeez!

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3 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Ahhh. I will keep that in mind. Funny now that the shoe is on the other foot we can only have these discussion after the abuse has occurred. I guess we can't think up every possible abuse in advance like you kiwi fucktards did when Oracle held the cup and discuss them ad infinitum?

Nah mate, you might have been too busy on the incel forums trying to imagine the different ways you might get fucked in the future, but for the rest of us back in AC land there was too much actual change to the protocol that kept the conversation too busy here to have to bother making shit up.

Maybe make up a "fantasy protocol abuse" Reddit and you can entertain yourself, and the other couple of boyzzzz interested in playing such a pointless little game.

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