Herfy

Second US Team

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Minimise the disadvantage by all means. Sufficiently to become a serious contender, not a chance.

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IMO, a design package cannot win the AC, and I think it's better for a team to create and develop a concept than improve a package they don't really understand.

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If it is supposed to be a long-term engagement (à la Malta), a design package campaign could kick-start the team for the first edition. If the design won't change again, the team should be level with the others by the time the second edition starts.
If, if , if...

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46 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

IMO, a design package cannot win the AC, and I think it's better for a team to create and develop a concept than improve a package they don't really understand.

T-C, personally I think the 36th AC as well as the Prada Cup won't be close at all. We won't be getting the "close racing" Dalton & his ETNZ cohorts are promising us. Reason: The AC 75 Design Rule has too many Restrictions, some elements a OD for example. One Team will have an obvious Advantage once these boats are launched and that's it then.

It was very different with the AC 72 Design which had No Restrictions allowing one Team to come from one side of Design aisle and the other Team from the opposite side.

Watching the Pressers from back then Glenn Ashby made that Point numerous times. ETNZ came from one side, OTUSA came from the other. We met in the middle resulting that we had a reasonably close Match.

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That makes no sense at all.  The more one design elements the more likely you are to have close racing.  That being said in the history of the cup we’ve only had two finals that were close Australia 2 and Oracle in the 72s and even in those cases one boat was clearly faster.

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20 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

That makes no sense at all.  The more one design elements the more likely you are to have close racing.  That being said in the history of the cup we’ve only had two finals that were close Australia 2 and Oracle in the 72s and even in those cases one boat was clearly faster.

We had a lot of OD Elements in AC 35, YET the Match was very one-sided.

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For this type of match, the defender is in a position to try to protect their headstart on the design by closing in rules. 

If no one comes up with something special, the defender's design headstart has the possibility to translate into another "not even close" victory.  ETNZ has played this role pretty hard this round and is hoping for this outcome.  This is nothing new at all and is just part of the game.   

The downside for them is the risk that someone will find some tidbit or technique that just plain makes them the fastest.  If so, another blowout is again likely.

For the AC72s, OTUSA really did not try to "tighten the box" near as much as they could have.  They were willing to be more open, the initial push from the COR was for a much less open design rule.  The "not tight enough" final rule lead to the focus change midway through the design cycle away from a "simple" 72' winged cat to something entirely new for course racing (fast foiling multihull).  The focus change undermined any "design advantage" the defender may have had with the hard wing.  The fact that the defender was playing catch up with fast foiling technique is a big part of what made the racing tighter.  

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19 minutes ago, P Flados said:

For this type of match, the defender is in a position to try to protect their headstart on the design by closing in rules. 

If no one comes up with something special, the defender's design headstart has the possibility to translate into another "not even close" victory.  ETNZ has played this role pretty hard this round and is hoping for this outcome.  This is nothing new at all and is just part of the game.   

The downside for them is the risk that someone will find some tidbit or technique that just plain makes them the fastest.  If so, another blowout is again likely.

For the AC72s, OTUSA really did not try to "tighten the box" near as much as they could have.  They were willing to be more open, the initial push from the COR was for a much less open design rule.  The "not tight enough" final rule lead to the focus change midway through the design cycle away from a "simple" 72' winged cat to something entirely new for course racing (fast foiling multihull).  The focus change undermined any "design advantage" the defender may have had with the hard wing.  The fact that the defender was playing catch up with fast foiling technique is a big part of what made the racing tighter.  

The only Team where I can see coming up with "Something Special" is probably INEOS given their Resources + Holroyd & Vroliik being there. I can't see Luna Rossa or American Magic coming up with something.

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1 hour ago, P Flados said:

For this type of match, the defender is in a position to try to protect their headstart on the design by closing in rules. 

If no one comes up with something special, the defender's design headstart has the possibility to translate into another "not even close" victory.  ETNZ has played this role pretty hard this round and is hoping for this outcome.  This is nothing new at all and is just part of the game.   

The downside for them is the risk that someone will find some tidbit or technique that just plain makes them the fastest.  If so, another blowout is again likely.

For the AC72s, OTUSA really did not try to "tighten the box" near as much as they could have.  They were willing to be more open, the initial push from the COR was for a much less open design rule.  The "not tight enough" final rule lead to the focus change midway through the design cycle away from a "simple" 72' winged cat to something entirely new for course racing (fast foiling multihull).  The focus change undermined any "design advantage" the defender may have had with the hard wing.  The fact that the defender was playing catch up with fast foiling technique is a big part of what made the racing tighter.  

Instead they just tightened the fuck out of the sailable weather box once they saw what ETNZ had built and the high likelyhood of losing...

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10 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

If the late entries teams buy ETNZ's design and have the boat built in New Zealand with a small team going to their home country to build the bow, I think that would minimise the disadvantage of being a late entry.

Rather like the deal they did for Luna Rosa for AC34.

Doesn't that guarantee losing?  ETNZ would not sell all of the latest and greatest refinements so the team would be sailing with a slower design.

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10 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

If the late entries teams buy ETNZ's design and have the boat built in New Zealand with a small team going to their home country to build the bow, 

 

The bow?? RTFP

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2 hours ago, Herfy said:

Doesn't that guarantee losing?  ETNZ would not sell all of the latest and greatest refinements so the team would be sailing with a slower design.

Alinghi is the only team to ever win on the first attempt and they only did this by hiring the bulk of the defending teams afterguard.

Anybody wanting to win the America's Cup is basically in it for at least two cycles, the first cycle is all about gaining knowledge and experience, hence Malta stating their intent is for three cycles, this is probably when they think they have a genuine shot at winning.

First time out you want reliability and enough competitiveness to actually learn something, while keeping costs at a managable level.

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3 hours ago, Herfy said:

Doesn't that guarantee losing?  ETNZ would not sell all of the latest and greatest refinements so the team would be sailing with a slower design.

No late entry team with their eyes open is planning to win the America's cup first time up but by buying the ETNZ AC75 design it does give them a shot at the Prada cup and valuable experience for the AC 37.

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13 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

No late entry team with their eyes open is planning to win the America's cup first time up but by buying the ETNZ AC75 design it does give them a shot at the Prada cup and valuable experience for the AC 37.

Nobody knows AC37 boat...

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I think generally the first shot unless your a delusional mega wealthy type is about generating credibility not just for sponsors but also for potential team members.  Look at the Oatley example in the last cup.  I'm pretty sure, when they challenged they assumed the Aussies that filled every aspect of all the existing teams would line up to join them, especially as they'd funded their Olympic campaigns.  The fact is none of those guys were confident there would be a team to switch too so didn't give up their existing rides.  I'm pretty sure this and not cost is why the team didn't go the distance.

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7 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Nobody knows AC37 boat...

That doesn't negate the experience gained from your first attempt in AC 36, if anything it levels the playing field.

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9 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

Read section 9 of the protocol.

 

And ??

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On 12/9/2018 at 6:35 PM, Terry Hollis said:

No late entry team with their eyes open is planning to win the America's cup first time up but by buying the ETNZ AC75 design it does give them a shot at the Prada cup and valuable experience for the AC 37.

Well, that is the approach that is being used by Stars and Stripes USA.  They are building an AC75 in Michigan based upon the ETNZ design package.

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8 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Well, that is the approach that is being used by Stars and Stripes USA.  They are building an AC75 in Michigan based upon the ETNZ design package.

Read the article posted by mfluder. They are open to building a 2nd Boat depending on how the 1st one goes. Their 1st Boat might be just a kind of test before implementing their own Design for a 2nd Boat.

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On 12/12/2018 at 11:49 AM, mfluder said:

Dirty Dennis is back! The man Kiwi's loved to hate back in the glory days of the Americas Cup. Business just picked up! 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/109291352/dennis-conner-backs-latest-united-states-challenge-for-americas-cup

You remind me of the typical Trump supporter.  Every one of your advisories is an evil villain!  Your home team only loses because the other team cheated and the times you do mange to win it is in spite of the whole world being against you.  You do know that many of those evil villains lately have been your fellow countryman?  The very people that you cheered for until they were no longer on your team.  

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On 12/13/2018 at 6:49 AM, mfluder said:

Dirty Dennis is back! The man Kiwi's loved to hate back in the glory days of the Americas Cup. Business just picked up! 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/109291352/dennis-conner-backs-latest-united-states-challenge-for-americas-cup

Crikey M you got to build a bridge and wobble on over it.

"Dirty Dennis is back!" where the fuck did you get that from out of that article.

Show some respect to one of the most talented sailors of all time and when you write the memoir of your sterling international sailing achievements maybe Dennis will be gracious enough to provide a forward.

 

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11 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey M you got to build a bridge and wobble on over it.

"Dirty Dennis is back!" where the fuck did you get that from out of that article.

Show some respect to one of the most talented sailors of all time and when you write the memoir of your sterling international sailing achievements maybe Dennis will be gracious enough to provide a forward.

 

Oh STFU. Its a term of endearment. A nod to the storied rivalry between NZ and Dennis Connor. Even HE appreciates the acknowledgement! You only prove how much (or rather how much you don't) understand Kiwi sporting rivalries. You probably have never heard of the "4 more years boys" taunt either or who said it. This sums up why people don't understand why teams like ETNZ keep coming back, why there is such passion for certain sports in NZ, sailing being one. 

Ignorance is bliss.

Storied sporting Rivalries only Kiwi's understand.

 

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Crikey M I am a card carrying Kiwi and the whole Dirty Dennis fiasco is a national embarrassment and that twit idiot Paul Holmes interview was simply the lowest point of professional journalism ever witnessed.

You know many moons later I had the opportunity to be at the the World Etchel Champs where Dicko and Dennis shared a entry so my message to you does not differ.

As a aside George Gregans “four more years boys”was simply the most brilliant on field remark I have ever witnessed and shone well over Dennis Conners Cat vs Dog jibe.

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12 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey M I am a card carrying Kiwi and the whole Dirty Dennis fiasco is a national embarrassment and that twit idiot Paul Holmes interview was simply the lowest point of professional journalism ever witnessed.

You know many moons later I had the opportunity to be at the the World Etchel Champs where Dicko and Dennis shared a entry so my message to you does not differ.

As a aside George Gregans four more years was simply the most brilliant on field remark I have ever witnessed and shone well over Dennis Conners Cat vs Dog jibe.

"A national fiasco" jesus get over yourself! Its part of NZ sporting culture, part of NZ Americas Cup history just as the antics between Dalts and Ross Field in the whitbread, the Gregan tackle on Wilson with the "4 more years boys" taunt. 

The Trevor Chappel underarm bowl is the same thing, but its all part of NZ sporting folklore, NZ sporting culture. There's no malice, just terms of endearment.

Kiwi's love to boo Quade Cooper and no one really knows why, just because he's a kiwi playing in Aussie, yet Andrew mehrtens can run the length of a rugby field in South Africa flipping the bird and we love it! 

Its the difference between passion for your National sporting team and not, much like the US.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Terms of endearment in my book does not include blindsiding and baiting.

Cheap and fortuitous come to mind.

"blindsiding and baiting" only if you take yourself too seriously.

 

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I don't think mfluder is suggesting Kiwis actually hate DC - you are right, the man is a total legend of the sport who deserves respect - his relationship with NZ is fine - heaven knows he spent a long enough time here well after his AC days.

From what I saw and heard his time in and around sailing circles and yacht clubs in NZ he was revered and treated like the legend he is.

As in all true sport, he played a role as a nemesis (which he rightly relished) but it ended there in terms of true animosity.

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"Dirty Dennis" Is a nickname, like "Griz" Wylie, "Pinetree Meads", "Pistol Pete" (Sampras or Burling, which ever you prefer) jesus, its a simple acknowledgement of the role they played in their time.

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I should be surprised at the attitudes of some TNZ fans when it comes to DC. If you compare DC's comments about TNZ to, say, Jimmy Spithill, you would say that Spithill is a pussycat. My favorite was the "why would you....unless you wanted to cheat". Yet DC is revered and all is forgiven because he was "playing a role" yet Jimmy is the devil incarnate. Move along, no double standards here........

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Dennis made those comments in the heat of a personal and professional titanic battle,he was rattled by the plastic fantastic and his life’s endeavours and pursuit for redemption were at imminent risk so in my opinion he was acting accordingly.

Dirty is not a nickname it’s a derogatory cheap shot.

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14 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

I should be surprised at the attitudes of some TNZ fans when it comes to DC. If you compare DC's comments about TNZ to, say, Jimmy Spithill,

Ah, it's all grist for the mill. I think there is more collective antipathy towards Wussell, than DC and Jimmy combined. DC ended up doing a Whitbread with Brad B. Apparently he didn't enjoy it much, being somewhat different to day racing.

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6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Dennis made those comments in the heat of a personal and professional titanic battle,he was rattled by the plastic fantastic and his life’s endeavours and pursuit for redemption were at imminent risk so in my opinion he was acting accordingly.

Dirty is not a nickname it’s a derogatory cheap shot.

No its not.

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7 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@Priscilla,

You shouldn't be surprised that mfluder is firing cheap shots at everyone who isn't from New Zealand because that's what he usually does.

I only fire "Cheap shots" at you, because you say something one minute, then a couple of months later you change your mind and try and convince everyone thats been your opinion all along, then you get called out on it, and cry "Bullying" or "So...so what"? haha

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Since Nationalism bounces right off me I find the "dirty" tag a big nothing burger, I have never been a DC fan & bet against him the first time he squared off against A3 (never mind that I had to return that 10spot when I sided with Cayard). And in the next cycle when inexplicably he won I wished Young America had scuttled the Dorthy & forced him to sail the old clunker.

Thanks to a pair of "lucky red socks" it didn't matter anyway.

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1 minute ago, mfluder said:

I only fire "Cheap shots" at you, because you say something one minute, then a couple of months later you change your mind and try and convince everyone thats been your opinion all along, then you get called out on it, and cry "Bullying" or "So...so what"? haha

Really? You change your Positions like People change their underwear in 24 Hours.

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5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Really? You change your Positions like People change their underwear in 24 Hours.

Like what? 

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11 hours ago, mfluder said:

"Dirty Dennis" Is a nickname, like "Griz" Wylie, "Pinetree Meads", "Pistol Pete" (Sampras or Burling, which ever you prefer) jesus, its a simple acknowledgement of the role they played in their time.

Ok, so let us affectionately call you Dimwit Mfluder, nothing personal, it is just a nickname.  It is a simple acknowledgement of the role you play at this time.

It would also be helpful if you changed your moniker at this time, thanks....

DC was not very nice, he can be a rude person, but he was reacting to the initial jabs from team NZ.

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34 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Ok, so let us affectionately call you Dimwit Mfluder, nothing personal, it is just a nickname.  It is a simple acknowledgement of the role you play at this time.

It would also be helpful if you changed your moniker at this time, thanks....

DC was not very nice, he can be a rude person, but he was reacting to the initial jabs from team NZ.

ooooo name calling, Jesus mate, what are you? 5 years old? And if you're going to insult someone, at least come up with a better one than "Dimwit".

Grow the fuck up. Sticks and stones anyway

It would be helpful if you change that stupid avatar picture of yours! Oh well, we all know once these AC75's start sailing, you'll turn around and say "I've always said these boats were going to be great!" 

 

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On 12/14/2018 at 9:04 AM, A Class Sailor said:

 Yet DC is revered 

Is he? Not by me. I think he is the man who has done the most to perpetuate the damaging myths that sailing is a sport populated by the ungracious,  played by the physically unfit and only for the wealthy.

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On 12/14/2018 at 4:04 AM, A Class Sailor said:

I should be surprised at the attitudes of some TNZ fans when it comes to DC. If you compare DC's comments about TNZ to, say, Jimmy Spithill, you would say that Spithill is a pussycat. My favorite was the "why would you....unless you wanted to cheat". Yet DC is revered and all is forgiven because he was "playing a role" yet Jimmy is the devil incarnate. Move along, no double standards here........

DC is revered basically like Trump is.

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Moving beyond the DC crap.....

Did anyone else notice who the CEO of S&S is? Used to post here and for a time was a shipmate of ours. That alone gets me in their ranks of a fan.

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3 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Moving beyond the DC crap.....

Did anyone else notice who the CEO of S&S is? Used to post here and for a time was a shipmate of ours. That alone gets me in their ranks of a fan.

While it’s been something of an open secret who put up the money to get this team going and that they were entered, I’m not at all impressed with their presentation to date. They have given a couple of interviews to say they aren’t going to say anything now. Big fucking deal. And the pose in the picture, please, enough with this were badass because we dress in all black and our body language says stay away from us because you simply aren’t as cool as we are. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

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7 hours ago, sunseeker said:

While it’s been something of an open secret who put up the money to get this team going and that they were entered, I’m not at all impressed with their presentation to date. They have given a couple of interviews to say they aren’t going to say anything now. Big fucking deal. And the pose in the picture, please, enough with this were badass because we dress in all black and our body language says stay away from us because you simply aren’t as cool as we are. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

Granted, they haven't used the marketing budget of American Magic, but I wouldn't take it so harshly. 

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16 hours ago, sunseeker said:

While it’s been something of an open secret who put up the money to get this team going and that they were entered, I’m not at all impressed with their presentation to date. They have given a couple of interviews to say they aren’t going to say anything now. Big fucking deal. And the pose in the picture, please, enough with this were badass because we dress in all black and our body language says stay away from us because you simply aren’t as cool as we are. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

you didn't mention the one page website with the "subscribe to email updates" lol. bet only Stingray did.

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16 hours ago, sunseeker said:

While it’s been something of an open secret who put up the money to get this team going and that they were entered, I’m not at all impressed with their presentation to date. They have given a couple of interviews to say they aren’t going to say anything now. Big fucking deal. And the pose in the picture, please, enough with this were badass because we dress in all black and our body language says stay away from us because you simply aren’t as cool as we are. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

Wow.  Kill the motor dude.  Of all the things to get upset about this seems to be a bit of an overreaction.   

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6 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Wow.  Kill the motor dude.  Of all the things to get upset about this seems to be a bit of an overreaction.   

Yes, let’s just bow down to Taylor Fucking Canfield and heap praise upon him because he’s said nothing about anything other than “we’re in”. I’m fairly sure they will show up at the starting line and be competitive, but this monochromatic badass look ran it’s course the day it started with the kiwis and their desire to deep throat the all blacks. This isn’t hard, you want to claim a historical name that is based on red white and blue, then launch the campaign in those colors, and learn to smile.

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On 12/15/2018 at 2:02 PM, sunseeker said:

While it’s been something of an open secret who put up the money to get this team going and that they were entered, I’m not at all impressed with their presentation to date. They have given a couple of interviews to say they aren’t going to say anything now. Big fucking deal. And the pose in the picture, please, enough with this were badass because we dress in all black and our body language says stay away from us because you simply aren’t as cool as we are. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

You're hilarious! Wow!

Would you please be patient! Everything else will come with time.

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14 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Yes, let’s just bow down to Taylor Fucking Canfield and heap praise upon him because he’s said nothing about anything other than “we’re in”. I’m fairly sure they will show up at the starting line and be competitive, but this monochromatic badass look ran it’s course the day it started with the kiwis and their desire to deep throat the all blacks. This isn’t hard, you want to claim a historical name that is based on red white and blue, then launch the campaign in those colors, and learn to smile.

Do the ETNZ run with a bad-ass look? I can't recall pics like that...certainly recent videos show them mucking around in the A Class boats.

As per ABs - you'll find sponsors crafting imagery like that (adidas annual team posters are commonly like that), but the NZRU and itself has little interest in that being part of their brand... have a look at allblacks.com to see what I mean, image gallery as attached... no need for posturing when you are this good...

468319183_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_38_48PM.png.1e02ba9edb944caf5e00fc7ebefe1ac3.png1346509242_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_38_37PM.png.4c7395a663a8f4d97f9cad7d4eb7cc5f.png104189434_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_38_30PM.png.186589d27b040b1603870b1e5e9aad1a.png1576832409_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_38_21PM.png.00a2634fb7a187916b15d6f4162cee9d.png1527225891_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_38_15PM.png.e8f7d672f70d3116a2e3db8cba639126.png1070939798_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_38_08PM.png.0c18b06089cf8ad1299c62ce92bab7d4.png

 

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Oh yeah, I just checked their homepage and you are right, what a bunch of macho arseholes!

1170512122_ScreenShot2018-12-17at3_41_54PM.thumb.png.f3010cc7a7b2c185a5d1366edd72b603.png

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15 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Yes, let’s just bow down to Taylor Fucking Canfield and heap praise upon him because he’s said nothing about anything other than “we’re in”. I’m fairly sure they will show up at the starting line and be competitive, but this monochromatic badass look ran it’s course the day it started with the kiwis and their desire to deep throat the all blacks. This isn’t hard, you want to claim a historical name that is based on red white and blue, then launch the campaign in those colors, and learn to smile.

Oh NOOOOOOOO!  More dudes in black.  Except, worse still, they're from the other US team.

Yes folks, it's true. Another "monochromatic badass look" 

And Storm Trooper helmets too.

Is there any hope at all for USA.

Small glimmer of hope though,  A glimpse of smiles .....  well, a kinda-sorta smile from Terry H.

 

yysw232942.jpg

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Do the ETNZ run with a bad-ass look? I can't recall pics like that...certainly recent videos show them mucking around in the A Class boats.

As per ABs - you'll find sponsors crafting imagery like that (adidas annual team posters are commonly like that), but the NZRU and itself has little interest in that being part of their brand... have a look at allblacks.com to see what I mean, image gallery as attached... no need for posturing when you are this good...

Why did you have to say this, now you made me google some pics:  I added a few GB pics also.   The Haka pics are great....

 

etnz_sailing_group_lvc.jpg

img1.jpg

Large_CC Team1.jpg

NZLYouthAmCupTeam2_0.jpg

Rituálny-bojový-tanec-Haka-novozélandských-ragbistov-rugby.co_.nz_.jpg

haka-1024x512.jpg

barker-burling.jpg

aptopix_americas_cup_cong_12.jpg

Americas_Cup_September_opt.jpg

150623_BAR_SELECTING_THE_CHALLENGER_desktop_1600x900_293-245852_1216x684-1098x470.jpg

493096576.jpg

494173284.jpg

m2387_crop43003_680x510_14691870986D6D.jpg

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1 hour ago, Herfy said:

Why did you have to say this, now you made me google some pics:  I added a few GB pics also.   The Haka pics are great....

A great summary of NZ sport, Rugger and yachting.....

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5 hours ago, Herfy said:

Why did you have to say this, now you made me google some pics:  I added a few GB pics also.   The Haka pics are great....

 

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I have to say there are plenty of smiles and some staunch shots too - although not exclusively ETNZ

Live action haka shots are not really the same thing as posed grumps...

It's unlikely I need to point out that the Haka is not a war dance - it's to mark an auspicious occasion or show supreme respect...

I'd count myself extremely lucky to be on the receiving end of an All Blacks Haka and those that have certainly do...

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22 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

I'd count myself extremely lucky to be on the receiving end of an All Blacks Haka and those that have certainly do...

The pinnacle of any non NZ rugby player is to face an All Black Haka.

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29 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

 

It's unlikely I need to point out that the Haka is not a war dance - it's to mark an auspicious occasion or show supreme respect..

 

For the benefit of our non-Kiwi members it's worth noting the Haka while largely ceremonial, has many connotations.

The Ka Mate version popularised by the All Blacks came from Te Rauparaha, the renowned warrior leader of Ngati Toa 200 years ago.  It is a celebration of life's triumphs over death

Ka mate, ka mate! ka ora! ka ora!
Ka mate! ka mate! ka ora! ka ora!
Tēnei te tangata pūhuruhuru
Nāna nei i tiki mai whakawhiti te rā
Ā, upane! ka upane!
Ā, upane, ka upane, whiti te ra!

‘Tis death! ’tis death! (or: I may die) ’Tis life! ‘tis life! (or: I may live)
’Tis death! ‘tis death! ’Tis life! ‘tis life!
This is the hairy man
Who brought the sun and caused it to shine
A step upward, another step upward!
A step upward, another… the Sun shines!

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Badass one day

etnz_sailing_group_lvc.thumb.jpg.7b15ffdef9e761dd499617917d016d6c.jpg.25be5c821f6a63b038bdc4305dad0d65.jpg

Severely traumatised a few weeks later.

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Yup... Sports eh! :-)

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9 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

For the benefit of our non-Kiwi members it's worth noting the Haka while largely ceremonial, has many connotations.

The Ka Mate version popularised by the All Blacks came from Te Rauparaha, the renowned warrior leader of Ngati Toa 200 years ago.  It is a celebration of life's triumphs over death

Ka mate, ka mate! ka ora! ka ora!
Ka mate! ka mate! ka ora! ka ora!
Tēnei te tangata pūhuruhuru
Nāna nei i tiki mai whakawhiti te rā
Ā, upane! ka upane!
Ā, upane, ka upane, whiti te ra!

‘Tis death! ’tis death! (or: I may die) ’Tis life! ‘tis life! (or: I may live)
’Tis death! ‘tis death! ’Tis life! ‘tis life!
This is the hairy man
Who brought the sun and caused it to shine
A step upward, another step upward!
A step upward, another… the Sun shines!

Haka is a great tradition.  I just had to throw in a few pictures because they look so intimidating and fun...

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10 hours ago, rh2600 said:

I have to say there are plenty of smiles and some staunch shots too - although not exclusively ETNZ

Live action haka shots are not really the same thing as posed grumps...

It's unlikely I need to point out that the Haka is not a war dance - it's to mark an auspicious occasion or show supreme respect...

I'd count myself extremely lucky to be on the receiving end of an All Blacks Haka and those that have certainly do...

Wow!

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