jack_sparrow

VOR AUCTION - OPPORTUNITIES LOST & STILL THERE?

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

It seems there is a lot of people out there who want to denegrate the contribution of Olympic Sailing. I don't understand that.

 


Guys who couldn't make the cut because no amount of gear buying or fancy marinas are going to make them fast.

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Pro curlers have their own paid circuits such as the Grand Slam when not competing for the Olympics or World Championships. They arguably are better off because they get paid to curl, but Olympic sailors presumably earn their money in a gig economy of various classes. 

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

[..] a long term sustainable plan and not continuing this nonsense [..]

A plan. The VOR. .... 
I'd like a few million as pocket money too.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But what is going on with the big showdown in Newport that is supposed to happen according to the previous page of postings?

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Your reply to that generous suggestion as follows I will put into the ignore basket along with you. 

Does anyone know if Jack is really just a teenage girl? Because his use of the ignore seems to suggest that he (or she) is of that mentality.

Hopefully the management team don't do a Jack and stick their head up their own arse and create a stronger event next time that will appeal to existing and potential team owners having then clamouring to enter a team.

One design and IMOCA style shorthanded boats will mean that the event will play second fiddle. Perhaps it would be a good event for sailors who aspire to race the Vendee Globe to use as training. They get to sail similar boats and get to experience the southern ocean, but with company and shore breaks...

Then there will be the opportunity for a group of very rich team owners to get together to create a RTW ocean race using cutting edge boat designs and fully crewed boats that they can make into the pinnacle of ocean racing.

I've changed my mind.... let VOR die 

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6 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I've changed my mind.... let VOR die 

Or skip an Edition to get it right.

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

But what is going on with the big showdown in Newport that is supposed to happen according to the previous page of postings?

Race is up for sale.  Announcement coming out this month supposedly. 

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Just now, southerncross said:

Or skip an Edition to get it right.

However it's achieved, doesn't matter to me. 

As long as we get a fully crewed RTW using cutting edge boats that attracts team owners and sponsors who are after the win and the glory rather than event sullied by a desperate attempt to keep the event relevant by cutting costs and hoping that will fix the falling interest without fixing the other problems. 

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Race is up for sale.  Announcement coming out this month supposedly. 

I wonder what you will get for your money?

Boats that no one wants to buy and good will that will be lost as you have to reinvent it under a new name anyway.

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2 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I wonder what you will get for your money?

Boats that no one wants to buy and good will that will be lost as you have to reinvent it under a new name anyway.

Rumour has it that it's a European consortium which is promising.  But things seem to be moving forward with IMOCA.  I'll reserve comment. 

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Just now, southerncross said:

Rumour has it that it's a European consortium which is promising.  But things seem to be moving forward with IMOCA.  I'll reserve comment. 

I will qualify my comment below by stating that I have never run a business...

I was always under the impression that to make a successful business, you need to have a product that is different and superior to your competitors.

Is that roughly correct?

A RTW race with IMOCA boats, short handed crew and stopovers, does not sound to me like it will be vastly different and certainly not superior to a nonstop RTW solo race.

 

Looks like it could be an opportunity for some rich American team owners to create a new RTW race. 

Newport-Cape Town-Sydney-Hobart-Auckland-Rio-Newport

 

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8 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I was always under the impression that to make a successful business, you need to have a product that is different and superior to your competitors.

Is that roughly correct?

To compete and capture market share at least.

13 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Looks like it could be an opportunity for some rich American team owners to create a new RTW race. 

Seems like the Dutch have their heads screwed on right when it comes to this.  How long has Brunel been in on it?  

 

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3 minutes ago, southerncross said:

To compete and capture market share at least.

sounds like what this race needs

3 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Seems like the Dutch have their heads screwed on right when it comes to this.  How long has Brunel been in on it?  

Not bad for a group of pot smoking pornographers.... 

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37 minutes ago, hoppy said:

...Hopefully the management team don't do a Jack and stick their head up their own arse and create a stronger event next time that will appeal to existing and potential team owners having then clamouring to enter a team...

One design and IMOCA style shorthanded boats will mean that the event will play second fiddle. ..

I've changed my mind.... let VOR die

 

Hoppy I started this thread so people could voice an opinion, argue it, defend it off the back of other opinions, modify it or even change their mind. 

The vast majority here do that and do it very well. 

Unfortunately you don't, which is fine and so I won't engage.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hoppy I started this thread so people could voice an opinion, argue it, defend it off the back of other opinions, modify it or even change their mind. 

The vast majority here do that and do it very well. 

Unfortunately you don't, which is fine and so I won't engage.

I thought you had me on ignore. Please turn it back on and keep true to your word

4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

so I won't engage.

 

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53 minutes ago, southerncross said:

To compete and capture market share at least.

There is only one crewed RTW race in the world so it is a monopoly. Monopolys are pretty hard to fuck up. Media statistics suggest every edition more people tune in with 25% or more increases common in most metrics over the prior edition and the edition before that. That is excellent growth.

So what is the problem then?

The one thing this race is in competition with is a race for money. The other competitors in the race are every marketing platform imaginable out there be it a billboard, magazine, social media platform etc which is in the business of making people aware. The marketing director in a potential sponsor company determines the winner of that race. In all likelihood he/she doesn't even sail.

It is a race to to collect money so teams can form, boats can be built and the starting gun goes off. The problem with this race is simple. They have not been collecting enough money so team numbers are shrinking. Some may say product quality has suffered but the numbers indicate the reverse.

The type of boat has probably zero to fuck all to do with that inability to secure enough capital to run the race.

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24 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I thought you had me on ignore. Please turn it back on and keep true to your word

Buy a dictionary I did not and fuck off it is my thread.

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30 minutes ago, hoppy said:
36 minutes ago, southerncross said:

 

Not bad for a group of pot smoking pornographers.... 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The type of boat has probably zero to fuck all to do with that inability to secure enough capital to run the race.

 

 

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

^^^ ha ha..are the crew hiding?

 

I thought I saw one little head pop out.

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19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

It is a race to to collect money so teams can form, boats can be built and the starting gun goes off.

When it comes right down to it, isn't this just one big, elaborate Patreon account?

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Buy a dictionary I did not and fuck off it is my thread.

 

9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I will put into the ignore basket along with you. 

I will not fuck off, it's a public forum and I will continue to contribute to this thread because clearly some people here are not as close minded as you and share some of my opinions.

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

A solo male sailor not wearing shorts?

Yes.  A wind up with a spinning head repeating "Non Compliant.  Non Compliant."

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32 minutes ago, southerncross said:

 

 

I wonder how many complaints about that sketch would be sent to the BBC, if it was recorded afresh and broadcast now :)

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13 minutes ago, Miffy said:

May 22. 

Really?  Any hints?  I wonder if Potter's got wind of what's coming?

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Just remembered that Russian Billionaire on Team Russia in the '08 - '09.  He stepped on a Leg didn't he?

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45 minutes ago, southerncross said:

When it comes right down to it, isn't this just one big, elaborate Patreon account?

It is exactly that unless there is an acceptable ROI to justify it. I would think Brunel would get the lowest return with nothing much more than brand awareness and corporate feel goods. Maybe TTOP gets the highest particularly as not just a global audience but race also generates a lot of traffic in Portugal the base of the not for profit. The not for profit behind V11 is not even branded and US not a big traffic generator by comparison so don't know what they expect.

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14 hours ago, southerncross said:

Really?  Any hints?  I wonder if Potter's got wind of what's coming?

I think the announcement to the teams is the 17th. Lots of rumours flying around, some of which have real traction some of which I really hope are not true. I am inclined not to say what any of them are...just in case they are true.

I hope the race does not go down the IMOCA route. I think even if they did it would be a kind of hybrid. The IMOCA one design rig is not as strong as the one designed for the Super 60; it would be a big ask for VOR (or whoever it is) to allow a less well structured rig. I would hate the thought of VOR allowing autopilots, but I am not sure how you could have long legs with only 4 or 5 people to drive, trim and navigate.

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9 minutes ago, Potter said:

I hope the race does not go down the IMOCA route. I think even if they did it would be a kind of hybrid.

I agree Potter. There has already been one stop gap solution, it needs a second like a hole in the head. It's only saviour to get back on track is a long term plan that accommodates excellence, prosecuting it in steps if necessary, not short term fixes with their envitable horizons.

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15 hours ago, southerncross said:

Just remembered that Russian Billionaire on Team Russia in the '08 - '09.  He stepped on a Leg didn't he?

Yes, program ran out of cash. 

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On 5/12/2018 at 10:55 AM, Potter said:

Interesting to hear those that think the Vendee Globe is so strong.  IMOCA and the RO are worried about it.

This time round will be the weakest fleet since 2004. Only 3 new boats, but still maximum entrants. More corinthians, less fully pro teams, less serious sponsors, less comms budget.

So even though it looks strong, there are worries that it is only on the surface, and that in fact the fleet is not as strong as it could be.  

Don't get me wrong, there are some serious contenders without new boats; eg Sam.  It is just interesting to note that the organisers are not as comfortable with the strength of the race, as perhaps some fans are.

So, turns out I was wrong about the number of new boats, but right about the Race Direction being worried.  There are likely 5 new, maybe even as many as 8. However, the corinthian adventurer entry still being the strongest by far is a worry for the organisers.  Still, good to hear there are more new boats.

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1 hour ago, Potter said:

So, turns out I was wrong about the number of new boats, but right about the Race Direction being worried.  There are likely 5 new, maybe even as many as 8. However, the corinthian adventurer entry still being the strongest by far is a worry for the organisers.  Still, good to hear there are more new boats.

So, new boat numbers? Didn't quite get that right then?

And who exactly do you classify as a "corinthian adventurer" in the 2020 VG context? Perhaps you would like to name them? I am sure they would love to be described as such by someone who hasn't actually done it, or maybe you have Potter! Do let us know?

Sure in the past there have been a very few who have done it on a shoestring or privately funded, but not many of the projects, either 2016 or 2020, that I know about would merit that description. It's not exactly easy to get to the start of the VG without serious investment and a fully professional project, but again, maybe your definition of professional differs from mine too.

Seems about the only thing we can agree about is the Imoca class open 60 makes no sense at all as a boat for a fully crewed RTW stopping race!

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11 minutes ago, staysail said:

So, new boat numbers? Didn't quite get that right then?

And who exactly do you classify as a "corinthian adventurer" in the 2020 VG context? Perhaps you would like to name them? I am sure they would love to be described as such by someone who hasn't actually done it, or maybe you have Potter! Do let us know?

Sure in the past there have been a very few who have done it on a shoestring or privately funded, but not many of the projects, either 2016 or 2020, that I know about would merit that description. It's not exactly easy to get to the start of the VG without serious investment and a fully professional project, but again, maybe your definition of professional differs from mine too.

Seems about the only thing we can agree about is the Imoca class open 60 makes no sense at all as a boat for a fully crewed RTW stopping race!

Wow, where did that come from? Have I pissed in your wheeties or something?

Who do I classify as a corinthian adventurer? All sorts, from Rich Wilson to Norbert Sedlecek (though maybe not this time round, as he may be one of the new boats), Steve White, Kojiro, even maybe Conrad Coleman and Nondor Fa. Essentially those who are having to scrimp, save and even mortgage their houses to get to the start line;  certainly those who rely on the goodness of others (volunteers, other teams, local companies) to get them over the start line.  However, personally, I would also include those that have funding, but are only in it for the experience, and do not necessarily put the training or effort in because it is about completion rather than competition.

You seem to be implying that I used the phrase corinthian adventurer in some sort of derogatory way. Not at all, I have more respect for them than I do for those who have spent millions and achieved nothing (not just in sailing or the VG but other sports).

Have I done the VG, no, but I have been involved. 

My comment was simply that the Race Direction are worried, not sure why that wound you up so much.  Take a fucking chill pill.

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8 minutes ago, Potter said:

Wow, where did that come from? Have I pissed in your wheeties or something?

Who do I classify as a corinthian adventurer? All sorts, from Rich Wilson to Norbert Sedlecek (though maybe not this time round, as he may be one of the new boats), Steve White, Kojiro, even maybe Conrad Coleman and Nondor Fa. Essentially those who are having to scrimp, save and even mortgage their houses to get to the start line;  certainly those who rely on the goodness of others (volunteers, other teams, local companies) to get them over the start line.  However, personally, I would also include those that have funding, but are only in it for the experience, and do not necessarily put the training or effort in because it is about completion rather than competition.

You seem to be implying that I used the phrase corinthian adventurer in some sort of derogatory way. Not at all, I have more respect for them than I do for those who have spent millions and achieved nothing (not just in sailing or the VG but other sports).

Have I done the VG, no, but I have been involved. 

My comment was simply that the Race Direction are worried, not sure why that wound you up so much.  Take a fucking chill pill.

You do seem to be implying "Race direction are worried" etc.  that the VG and Imoca might be on dodgy ground financially, and that there are lots of relatively non-serious contenders. You are implying that a "Corinthian Adventurer" is a bad thing, as far as the event organisers are concerned and you say there are lots of them, yet for 2020, I don't see them like you do. The names you quote are almost all from pre 2016.

Maybe you are right and the VG is about to go belly up but your facts always seem to be wrong when you are challenged.

I am guessing you are wrong about this too.

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7 minutes ago, staysail said:

You do seem to be implying "Race direction are worried" etc.  that the VG and Imoca might be on dodgy ground financially, and that there are lots of relatively non-serious contenders. You are implying that a "Corinthian Adventurer" is a bad thing, as far as the event organisers are concerned and you say there are lots of them, yet for 2020, I don't see them like you do. The names you quote are almost all from pre 2016.

Maybe you are right and the VG is about to go belly up but your facts always seem to be wrong when you are challenged.

I am guessing you are wrong about this too.

Okay, I think I am not being clear, but I will leave it at that.

What facts were wrong when challenged? Challenged by who? One poster questioned when I said 3 IMOCAs, but could not come up with more himself, and I have corrected myself when I heard of more...what facts are wrong when challenged?  I have never implied that VG is on dodgy ground financially, please show where I have EVER done that. What I said was that the RD were worried about the number of 'corinthian entries' by comparison to the big teams. That is nothing to do with a financial question, they all still pay the same entry fee; it is to do with wanting to remain an pinnacle racing event. It is to do with VG being proactive and looking at issues, and that maybe they are more worried than some on here are. Fuck, you really seem to want to pick a fight that I don't understand.

 

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3 minutes ago, Potter said:

Okay, I think I am not being clear, but I will leave it at that.

What facts were wrong when challenged? Challenged by who? One poster questioned when I said 3 IMOCAs, but could not come up with more himself, and I have corrected myself when I heard of more...what facts are wrong when challenged?  I have never implied that VG is on dodgy ground financially, please show where I have EVER done that. What I said was that the RD were worried about the number of 'corinthian entries' by comparison to the big teams. That is nothing to do with a financial question, they all still pay the same entry fee; it is to do with wanting to remain an pinnacle racing event. It is to do with VG being proactive and looking at issues, and that maybe they are more worried than some on here are. Fuck, you really seem to want to pick a fight that I don't understand.

 

The ignore list is really wonderful. I learned my lesson when he was ranting and raving against watermakers, using diesel to charge batteries before the fleet departed Alicante. Don't waste your time. 

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24 minutes ago, Potter said:

Okay, I think I am not being clear, but I will leave it at that.

What facts were wrong when challenged? Challenged by who? One poster questioned when I said 3 IMOCAs, but could not come up with more himself, and I have corrected myself when I heard of more...what facts are wrong when challenged?  I have never implied that VG is on dodgy ground financially, please show where I have EVER done that. What I said was that the RD were worried about the number of 'corinthian entries' by comparison to the big teams. That is nothing to do with a financial question, they all still pay the same entry fee; it is to do with wanting to remain an pinnacle racing event. It is to do with VG being proactive and looking at issues, and that maybe they are more worried than some on here are. Fuck, you really seem to want to pick a fight that I don't understand.

 

For sure you are only being clear to your faithful fans!

Well what exactly is it that you say worries the RD about what you call "the number of corinthian entries"? Why should they care who turns up provided they pay the entry fee and their boat is in class? I haven't seen any ill effects on the race being caused by low budget entries. Plenty of big budget sailors have been beaten by small budget ones in this event!

As I see it for 2020 it looks as if there will be significantly more faster boats than last time, and I think it will still be a "pinnacle event" in 2020.  Are you saying that you and the RD do not see it this way?

Why do you say RD is concerned it won't "remain a pinnacle racing event"? What exactly are they worried about if its not money? And incidentally, if it doesn't remain a pinnacle event I would say, like the VOR it would be the beginning of the end for it, and that sure would be a financial worry.

I think the last thing they should be doing is touching the VOR with a barge pole, but you are the one with all the "inside knowledge". How about you trying to call a spade a spade? What do you think is is going on and why?

 

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1 hour ago, Potter said:

Fuck, you really seem to want to pick a fight that I don't understand.

Unfortunately common disease here, starts with a mosquito bite and before you know it it is raging malaria.

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

I think the last thing they should be doing is touching the VOR with a barge pole, 

It has got nothing to do with the VG, that was an IMOCA decision and nearly unanimous.

Very few people here incl Potter support the two boats aligning in design to be able them to be mixed and matched.

The two races are like chalk and cheese in every single respect including financial. The only common denominator is they circle the globe and even that is debatable. The VOR is already global but struggling, not with audience, but sponsor participation. 

It is achnowledged the VG has reached saturation in France and that means it can only go one way unless it widens its reach outside France. I think I said this, Potter agreed and you challenged it?

If this is your gripe stick to it and tell us why we are wrong instead of leg humping Potter all over the shop off the back of one mistake he generously corrected.

It doesn't encourage discussion for starters. 

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2 hours ago, staysail said:

You do seem to be implying "Race direction are worried" etc.  that the VG and Imoca might be on dodgy ground financially, and that there are lots of relatively non-serious contenders. You are implying that a "Corinthian Adventurer" is a bad thing, as far as the event organisers are concerned and you say there are lots of them, yet for 2020, I don't see them like you do. The names you quote are almost all from pre 2016.

Maybe you are right and the VG is about to go belly up but your facts always seem to be wrong when you are challenged.

I am guessing you are wrong about this too.

Give it a break, and have a day off from being a prick. You’ll feel better. 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

It is achnowledged the VG has reached saturation in France and that means it can only go one way unless it widens its reach outside France. I think I said this, Potter agreed and you challenged it?

If this is your gripe stick to it and tell us why we are wrong instead of leg humping Potter all over the shop off the back of one mistake he generously corrected.

 

I know on these forums its "criticise Potter at your peril" Jack, but ...

If the race still keeps attracting the best sailors and the venue stays at saturation point with entrants queuing, and the boats keep getting faster every 4 years and all the participants, sailors and sponsors, seem to be having a good time, and the public is following the race in their millions, I can't really see that "saturation in France" is really such a problem for the organisers. Seems like a problem many businesses would envy.

I can't see why all the doom and gloom about the future of the VG, and I am in France rather a lot.

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33 minutes ago, staysail said:

, I can't really see that "saturation in France" is really such a problem for the organisers. Seems like a problem many businesses would envy.

You might not but the VG RO, core sponsors and skipper/teams do. It is no coincidence IMOCA wants to align with a race that has global reach. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. The drowning man has little to gain and everything to lose.

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2 hours ago, staysail said:

I know on these forums its "criticise Potter at your peril" Jack, but ...

If the race still keeps attracting the best sailors and the venue stays at saturation point with entrants queuing, and the boats keep getting faster every 4 years and all the participants, sailors and sponsors, seem to be having a good time, and the public is following the race in their millions, I can't really see that "saturation in France" is really such a problem for the organisers. Seems like a problem many businesses would envy.

I can't see why all the doom and gloom about the future of the VG, and I am in France rather a lot.

Did you for one second stop to think that potter was ECHOING thoughts of the VG RO ? At no point did he appear to voice that thought as his own. Maybe step down from being a prick for a second and interpret words for what they are, and not what your trying to hear , doubtful you will.

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You might not but the VG RO, core sponsors and skipper/teams do. It is no coincidence IMOCA wants to align with a race that has global reach. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. The drowning man has little to gain and everything to lose.

So we have it, second hand (?), from both Potter and from you, that most everyone involved in the VG is "worried", about some vague "saturation in France" problem which isn't "financial". Presumably someone or several people must have told the pair of you what is actually likely to "go wrong"? All I am asking is what is the problem, exactly, which everyone else sees except me?

The VG has been pretty similar for at least the last 4 editions as far as I have seen, with both skippers and boats developing on a fairly steady path. Why can this happy situation not continue? and why does it need to expand out to other countries where the same degree of public interest is clearly absent? Plenty of big businesses who are successful in their home country have failed when they have tried to expand abroad, especially when the right kind of market simply doesnt exist abroad. I would say it would be very risky for the whole Imoca scene to try and expand outside France. One reason it is a success here is that the Mini and the Figaro are here and they are the places from where many of the Skippers have graduated and I see no comparable situations in any other country. I know the UK, and there would be no hope there. All I am asking is "Exactly what is the peceived problem?"

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And to Miffy, Pigpowr, Mad, Potter and the rest of the Potter fan club, if you don't like what you read but have nothing original to contribute on the subject why the insults and foul language? Do you really imagine that it might bother me!
Pretty sad folk, those that get a kick out of using gratuitous foul language to no purpose

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You might not but the VG RO, core sponsors and skipper/teams do. It is no coincidence IMOCA wants to align with a race that has global reach. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. The drowning man has little to gain and everything to lose.

 

1 hour ago, staysail said:

So we have it, second hand (?), from both Potter and from you, that most everyone involved in the VG is "worried", about some vague "saturation in France" problem which isn't "financial". Presumably someone or several people must have told the pair of you what is actually likely to "go wrong"? All I am asking is what is the problem, exactly, which everyone else sees except me?..

...Why can this happy situation not continue? and why does it need to expand out to other countries where the same degree of public interest is clearly absent? ..

...I would say it would be very risky for the whole Imoca scene to try and expand outside France. 

IMOCA have been pushing the expansion path for years. Alex Thomson IMOCA Vice President is the last to be quoted on saturation in France being a financial issue to my knowledge.

I will leave it to this reaction of skippers and IMOCA Board members after the IMOCA AGM last month commenting on a potential link with the VOR and expanding beyond France to attend to your question/opinion.

Paul Meilhat "For someone in charge of a project like me, it is something extra being able to offer the VOR, as its international dimension means you can attract the world’s leading global brands". 

Boris Herrmann "....it will be a major help in increasing the popularity of the class internationally and setting up new projects will be even more attractive to sponsors".

Clearly you must know more than them.

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/2003-imoca-general-meeting-three-major-decisions-approved.htm

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26 minutes ago, staysail said:

And to Miffy, Pigpowr, Mad, Potter and the rest of the Potter fan club, if you don't like what you read but have nothing original to contribute on the subject...

You have now gone above your station, which isn't very high it would seem, so time to button the fuck up.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

IMOCA have been pushing the expansion path for years. Alex Thomson IMOCA Vice President is the last to be quoted on saturation in France being a financial issue to my knowledge.

I will leave it to this reaction of skippers and IMOCA Board members after the IMOCA AGM last month commenting on a potential link with the VOR and expanding beyond France to attend to your question/opinion.

Paul Meilhat "For someone in charge of a project like me, it is something extra being able to offer the VOR, as its international dimension means you can attract the world’s leading global brands". 

Boris Herrmann "....it will be a major help in increasing the popularity of the class internationally and setting up new projects will be even more attractive to sponsors".

Clearly you must know more than them.

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/2003-imoca-general-meeting-three-major-decisions-approved.htm

Yep, I reckon its all hot air, totally impracticable and will come to nothing. And you have still not even suggested what the actual perceived problem with the Imoca/VG situation is now! And you have joined the "gratuitous foul language - sad people" club.

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45 minutes ago, staysail said:

And you have joined the "gratuitous foul language - sad people" club.

I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

Yep, I reckon its all hot air, totally impracticable and will come to nothing.

Tune your radio to Channel Volvo this time next week.

The message between the PR static for any crewed RTW race follower with half a brain will be akin to that Frenchman at the back of lift and the Englishman standing beside him both farting in unison and with big smiles on their faces.

I will then be pondering how long I can hold my  breath while the Swedish and Chinese guy in lift (who both want to get out to) shuffle deck chairs while talking to their RTW Race broker on the phone.

Pity the Chinaman and the Swede didn't think about taking the stairs, losing some weight and becoming more attractive.

Anyway back to holding my breath.

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23 hours ago, Potter said:

So, turns out I was wrong about the number of new boats, but right about the Race Direction being worried.  There are likely 5 new, maybe even as many as 8. However, the corinthian adventurer entry still being the strongest by far is a worry for the organisers.  Still, good to hear there are more new boats.

The VG is much stronger than the VOR even if they are worried rightly that there aren't that many fully financed campaign. But they are asking these questions and not being reactive like the VOR which is now in a situation really hard to get out of. If the VOR becomes an IMOCA event eventually it will just be a supporting event for the VG, that's sad but much better than no race at all.

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On 5/14/2018 at 11:14 AM, southerncross said:

Homeless couture?  Is that Gucci or D&G?

 

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On 5/15/2018 at 1:36 PM, Potter said:

So, turns out I was wrong about the number of new boats, but right about the Race Direction being worried.  There are likely 5 new, maybe even as many as 8. However, the corinthian adventurer entry still being the strongest by far is a worry for the organisers.  Still, good to hear there are more new boats.

LSDO is quite optimistic and investing heavily in infrastructure to handle a record field, I am told.  Could be bullshit.   

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After following this thread since the outset, I am still not clear what is meant by "corinthian adventurers", "corinthian entries" or "corinthian boats", why that is a problem for the VG, and why/if any of this is an issue for the VOR? And I have yet to see any coherent proposal for "solving" the VOR's alleged "problems". Perhaps it doesn't matter as supposedly, from what I have read here, some sort of announcement regarding the future of the VOR by people who actually have the ability to make those changes is to be made tomorrow?

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1 minute ago, despacio avenue said:

And I have yet to see any coherent proposal for "solving" the VOR's alleged "problems". Perhaps it doesn't matter as supposedly, from what I have read here, some sort of announcement regarding the future of the VOR by people who actually have the ability to make those changes is to be made tomorrow?

Nothing written here matters, it’s just a way to pass the time, which does make me wonder why some people get their nickers in a twist.

whatever is announced as to the VOR future, there will be hundreds of posts, mostly negative. More time passing...

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5 hours ago, hoppy said:

whatever is announced as to the VOR future, there will be hundreds of posts, mostly negative.

Well I can't wait for yours to plumb depths more negative than this one.

Can you post it before you rush off to Alicante and strap on a suicide vest. 

On 5/15/2018 at 7:59 AM, hoppy said:

I've changed my mind.... let VOR die 

 

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On 5/16/2018 at 8:30 AM, staysail said:

And to Miffy, Pigpowr, Mad, Potter and the rest of the Potter fan club, if you don't like what you read but have nothing original to contribute on the subject why the insults and foul language? Do you really imagine that it might bother me!
Pretty sad folk, those that get a kick out of using gratuitous foul language to no purpose

Thanks Mad.
Insults, foul language, even multiple downvotes now. Water off a duck's back.

Go on; have some fun, why not add another downvote on this one?

  • Downvote 2

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^^^ Stay a heads up.

You and one other here of the same "my way or the highway" post flavour do your own opinion, good or bad, no favours by getting your nickers in a twist...to borrow a recent upthread phrase :-)

Substantiating opinion no matter what it is, is also king and you usually try hard in that regard, but with an occasional relapse. This bar is not one with many dummies in it.

Buy a round and listen otherwise one ultimately ends up being the lonely and irrelevant guy at the end of the said bar.

Just saying.

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8 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

After following this thread since the outset, I am still not clear what is meant by "corinthian adventurers", "corinthian entries" or "corinthian boats", why that is a problem for the VG, and why/if any of this is an issue for the VOR? 

Despavio you are a great poster so are entitled to a commensurate answer, but here with my flavoured cap on which may vary to others.

For the VG to start relying on Corinthian/Semi Pro /Amateure entries it means the state of the art entries and one underpinning the future of the IMOCA class funded by big sponsorship dollars is having sponsorship issues. Hence factual statements from IMOCA upthread about IMOCA wanting to go more global and widening it's reach outside just France.

8 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

and why/if any of this is an issue for the VOR? 

The VOR has a global footprint that IMOCA/VG would kill for. Instead of killing they are happy to either subscribe to a marriage of conveniance with the VOR or maybe just a quicky in the carpark. They have got nothing to lose, the other party maybe a lot to lose beyond just their crewed race virginity.

The irony for VOR while being global is history shows they can't get global sponsors of any retail stature like IMOCA teams do, albeit French centric.

8 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

And I have yet to see any coherent proposal for "solving" the VOR's alleged "problems". 

I can only speak to one of mine (already outlined in detail upthread and why) being Volvo get out of the RO business being a light/heavy vehicle marketing play thing and this becomes a successful unbranded/cleanskin race like many others, so it then becomes attractive to a wider group of sponsors than just windfarms and "not for profit" ecological entities in its own right.

It doesn't need a marriage to achieve that and the fact it wants a marriage indicates it doesn't want to walk away from using this race to sell its own shit, to the clear detriment of the financial well-being of the race and therefore it's future.

The RO's announcement this time last year of the foiling V60 was a sexy parcel to appease those of the view the V65 truck had to go, but now suddenly be one wearing IMOCA style underwear, but no pants so the other mob got a hard on.

It will end up in divorce and crewed RTW race enthusiasts are the kids.

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17 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

LSDO is quite optimistic and investing heavily in infrastructure to handle a record field, I am told.  Could be bullshit.   

LSDO investing be dammed.

Clean you are far too modest..."Cleans Carwash" or "Nettoyer Lave-Auto" or "NLA" in the European business community I hear is now going gangbusters and a major sponsor of anything French and fast, mono or multi. You sly dog.

BTW I hear your competitors are trying to undermine you using the gender card being NLA is short for No Lesbians Allowed. Don't listen to those jealous pooftas is my suggestion, even carpet munchers will understand at some point some dick has to wash their fuckin Renault.

Pretty pissed off though your didn't give your fans here on SA a early look in on the IPO or even a NLA franchise opportunity.

To make amends, give us an early investor invite into Cleans Boat Wash OK? 

Sunday start come soon enough..I'm rambling.

1349376642.thumb.jpg.d5a008c4d6914aa92264136a4a1ff1a0.jpg

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On 5/16/2018 at 11:28 AM, jack_sparrow said:

I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

Paid up member of the Potter, Mad etc. clique/fan club though! and why not a few more downvotes for that one?

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21 minutes ago, staysail said:

Paid up member of the Potter, Mad etc. clique/fan club though! and why not a few more downvotes for that one?

Fuck me it is like talking to a house brick..I don't downvote Stay..however be carefull what you wish for.

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Today's the day the teams get the news.  Maybe we'll get a leak. Uh hum, Potter?

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Despavio you are a great poster so are entitled to a commensurate answer, but here with my flavoured cap on which may vary to others.

For the VG to start relying on Corinthian/Semi Pro /Amateure entries it means the state of the art entries and one underpinning the future of the IMOCA class funded by big sponsorship dollars is having sponsorship issues. Hence factual statements from IMOCA upthread about IMOCA wanting to go more global and widening it's reach outside just France.

The VOR has a global footprint that IMOCA/VG would kill for. Instead of killing they are happy to either subscribe to a marriage of conveniance with the VOR or maybe just a quicky in the carpark. They have got nothing to lose, the other party maybe a lot to lose beyond just their crewed race virginity.

The irony for VOR while being global is history shows they can't get global sponsors of any retail stature like IMOCA teams do, albeit French centric.

I can only speak to one of mine (already outlined in detail upthread and why) being Volvo get out of the RO business being a light/heavy vehicle marketing play thing and this becomes a successful unbranded/cleanskin race like many others, so it then becomes attractive to a wider group of sponsors than just windfarms and "not for profit" ecological entities in its own right.

It doesn't need a marriage to achieve that and the fact it wants a marriage indicates it doesn't want to walk away from using this race to sell its own shit, to the clear detriment of the financial well-being of the race and therefore it's future.

The RO's announcement this time last year of the foiling V60 was a sexy parcel to appease those of the view the V65 truck had to go, but now suddenly be one wearing IMOCA style underwear, but no pants so the other mob got a hard on.

It will end up in divorce and crewed RTW race enthusiasts are the kids.

The VG has always relied on Corinthian entries, the winner of the first one would ever be considered Corinthian to today standards as he is an artist. The route du rhum has also always relied on Corinthian entries. The tour de France voile in its old format went down the drain when it started relying purely on professional entries, even the figaro rely on a few Corinthian entries.

The VG despite being more French centric has more audience than the VOR, why would they be jealous?

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Yacht Racing Forum announces three years partnership with OC Sport

by Yacht Racing Forum 17 May 10:06 PDT22-23 October 2018

Yacht Racing Forum announces three years partnership with OC Sport © Yacht Racing Forum

The Yacht Racing Forum is pleased to announce a three years partnership with OC Sport, a French based company that has a unique portfolio of events across sailing, cycling and running.

OC Sport will be the title sponsor of the " Top of the Sport " conference module, chaired by Marcus Hutchinson, debating amongst others the future of the Volvo Ocean Race, the evolution of the Classe Ultime, the IMOCA, the new foiling Figaro Class and the latest news about the America's Cup.

The dates for this year's Yacht Racing Forum (October 22-23) have been set in order to coincide with the opening of the Route du Rhum Destination Guadeloupe race village, and to allow delegates from all over the world to discover the boats involved, in Saint-Malo. A special VIP treatment will be proposed to 25 delegates, with an exclusive guided tour of the race village and privileged access to the teams and race headquarters.

"OC Sport have been supporting the Yacht Racing Forum since its debuts in 2008, and we are thrilled to confirm the continuation of our partnership, with a long term vision ", says Bernard Schopfer, the organiser of the Yacht Racing Forum. " The Route du Rhum Destination Guadeloupe is one of France's biggest sailing events and we are proud to be able to offer this opportunity to our delegates."

Founded twenty years ago, OC Sport is one of the sports' key actors, playing a leading role in the development of yacht racing events. " The Yacht Racing Forum is a great platform for networking and business, and we support and encourage the efforts made by the organizers to further develop this event ", says Guillaume Semblat, CEO, OC Sport.

The Yacht Racing Forum is the leading annual conference for the business of sailing and yacht racing. The event will take place on October 22-23, 2018 in Brittany, in the town of Lorient, at the heart of the mythical Sailing Valley, one of the world's most dynamic venues for the sport and the industry of sailing and yacht racing.

www.yachtracingforum.com

https://www.sail-world.com/news/205239

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BREAKING FROM WITYY:

Richard B is taking over the Volvo in IMOCA's.

Scally going for the AC?

"VO65's absolute dog's".

 

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck me it is like talking to a house brick..I don't downvote Stay..however be carefull what you wish for.

This forum tells me that you did. Please accept my apologies as the website or my pc must have got it wrong.

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40 minutes ago, staysail said:

This forum tells me that you did. 

Gave you some up votes for the sensible bits.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Richard B is taking over the Volvo in IMOCA's.

That IMOCA bit is not quite right and platform is still up in the air, albeit collaboration is certain.

The RO transfer literally occured "in principle" before the boats got to Capetown and he has essentially been conducting due diligence, not running a race.  

This why he has been as quiet as a church mouse and Turner's departure was one of the CEO's position evaporating on the spot.

There are a trillion questions yet to be answered, the funding model the first and most important one.

SX wake the Ed up to FP it before Larry's Salad Tosser lifts it from here.

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6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

The VG despite being more French centric has more audience than the VOR, why would they be jealous?

The numbers don't lie, they don't.

6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

The VG has always relied on Corinthian entries, the winner of the first one would ever be considered Corinthian to today standards as he is an artist. The route du rhum has also always relied on Corinthian entries.

These are non-stop races. A Corinthian & Grand Prix mixed fleet is a logistic impossibility with a tour of the world and multiple stopovers.

You forget also that the Southern Ocean's weather window is only so big. While no problem for the VG's dash around the orange, it is a major issue now with the VOR clearing the Horn too late in the season, but also balancing that with the Typhoon window for the tour in and out of China.

With Volvo gone everything is now back on the table. 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

That IMOCA bit is not quite right and platform is still up in the air, albeit collaboration is certain.

The RO transfer literally occured "in principle" before the boats got to Capetown and he has essentially been conducting due diligence, not running a race.  

This why he has been as quiet as a church mouse and Turner's departure was one of the CEO's position evaporating on the spot.

There are a trillion questions yet to be answered, the funding model the first and most important one.

SX wake the Ed up to FP it before Larry's Salad Tosser lifts it from here.

Sent it to the Ed.

So it's Richard B., his company and any others?

Witt said something about a return to traditional ideas and being able to design your own boat inferring a box rule of some kind.  

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32 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Sent it to the Ed.

So it's Richard B., his company and any others?

Witt said something about a return to traditional ideas and being able to design your own boat inferring a box rule of some kind.  

while i enjoy the tight racing ( parade style ) , man the last edition with puma / camper / telefonica / groupama was some really awesome stuff. 

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43 minutes ago, southerncross said:

So it's Richard B., his company and any others?

Witt said something about a return to traditional ideas and being able to design your own boat inferring a box rule of some kind.  

He needs an underwriter. He is not signed on 100%, a frontrunner and probably only runner.

Witty's 2 tomato sticks 80' apart is exactly that and an opinion founded on him having the luxury of money now and divorced from the  realities others face of funding a campaign.  His last boss and prior owner of the 100' did things on the cheap and so is a Frankenboat incl an old keel of WOXI's. That has all been largely remedied while the VOR show has been rattling on.

The attractive thing about the Scally show is it is a longer term team, not a one event outfit cobbled together every 3/4 years.

Dare I say it, Scally is looking very French.

 

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