jack_sparrow

VOR AUCTION - OPPORTUNITIES LOST & STILL THERE?

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4 minutes ago, Miffy said:


It is questions that all good marketing VPs and supervisory boards ask when they're being presented a pitch - and trying to make sure this isn't just the CEO or someone trying to throw company money at their personal passion on shareholders' dime. 

FWIW, the VG youtube channel had about 1/5 the number of subscribers - and on their respective channels, the most popular current (within past 12 months of the actual event) videos have comparable view points. VOR content that has the most views tend to be from prior compilations that tend to have summarized content.

It is getting bloody tough to capture this data. 

The TTTOP crash gybe video on YouTube has 26k views, on a sailing channel, but on Facebook it has over 1 million. If it is not on VOR channel it still has a value, but is that value less even though Volvo are mentioned and it is a different audience? Honestly, I have no idea, it was just something I noticed, and wondered how it gets valued. 

I know how all the traditional stuff is done, but how the hell do you do it now, when anyone can share videos on their own pages or sites. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Potter said:

It is getting bloody tough to capture this data. 

The TTTOP crash gybe video on YouTube has 26k views, on a sailing channel, but on Facebook it has over 1 million. If it is not on VOR channel it still has a value, but is that value less even though Volvo are mentioned and it is a different audience? Honestly, I have no idea, it was just something I noticed, and wondered how it gets valued. 

I know how all the traditional stuff is done, but how the hell do you do it now, when anyone can share videos on their own pages or sites. 

 


And Facebook inflates views by all the various autoplaying on mobile devices - there's engagement data (how long the eyes are on the screen), but Facebook isn't exactly honest with how it handles data and really is a toxic environment to pitch at the moment (rightfully so).

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And then there is fan engagement. 

I was walking with Dee to where the sailors gather before departure and she was wearing a Musto Jacket that has reached the end of its offshore life. There was a young girl there who had a blue TTTOP hoody on. Dee stopped to talk to her and, realising how big a fan she was, she took her jacket off and put it on her. Now there is a young girl with a team TTTOP jacket with Caffari on the back. 

The look on her parents face was quite simply priceless.

It is going to be a few years before she grows into it, but I bet she will be conscious of her plastic use and always think favourably of Volvos. Again, impossible to value, but that is what all sports can bring that branding alone cannot.... Engagement. 

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I think it is something Liberty Media is valuing a lot more than Bernie ever did in F1 too - getting kids into the paddock and what not. 

In general I think the "go natural" thing seems to run counter to English/Northern European management - French organizers do it naturally without thinking. American corporate giants do it when the marketing ppl give them a report.

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:


It is questions that all good marketing VPs and supervisory boards ask when they're being presented a pitch - and trying to make sure this isn't just the CEO or someone trying to throw company money at their personal passion on shareholders' dime. 

FWIW, the VG youtube channel had about 1/5 the number of subscribers - and on their respective channels, the most popular current (within past 12 months of the actual event) videos have comparable view points. VOR content that has the most views tend to be from prior compilations that tend to have summarized content.

Yes, the VOR has 100 000ish subscriber

and the VG has 20 000ish subscriber

Nevertheless it is much easier to follow the VG because it will be on the news nearly daily so people are less likely to have to browse You tube to get their fix. If you go on alexa, the VOR is way ahead but that's normal because it is happening now. The second audience of the VOR website is France (behind the USA).

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wrong.. independent stats and cumulative actual views.

Source?

claims are worthless unless they are substantiated with details of their collection methodology.

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Jack, if those tv audience figures were actual viewer numbers, then why weren’t consumer product companies knocking on VOR’s door wanting to sponsor a boat and why is SCA gathering dust? 

Clearly the 1.6B is not so impressive when companies marketing departments closely look at the statistics, methodology and assumptions made.

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

Source?

claims are worthless unless they are substantiated with details of their collection methodology.

Fuck talk about kill the messenger. The list of entities that compile media stats across all media platforms and country by country is huge.

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

Jack, if those tv audience figures were actual viewer numbers, then why weren’t consumer product companies knocking on VOR’s door wanting to sponsor a boat and why is SCA gathering dust? 

I have already articulated my thoughts on that upthread in a large number of posts along with others. You do love leg humping.

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Nevertheless it is much easier to follow the VG because it will be on the news nearly daily so people are less likely to have to browse 

Pano the point you simply don't want to accept is the VOR has a larger audience and it is global. The VG RO and it's participants have stated that publicaly.

You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

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6 hours ago, Miffy said:

In general I think the "go natural" thing seems to run counter to English/Northern European management - French organizers do it naturally without thinking. American corporate giants do it when the marketing ppl give them a report.

And when China says we are no longer/ taking less of your recyclable waste as has just happened, they all get in a panic.

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7 hours ago, Potter said:

It is going to be a few years before she grows into it, but I bet she will be conscious of her plastic use and always think favourably of Volvos. 

Today's kid is tomorrow's consumer. Banks used to hand out elaborate tin money boxes and offer kids a savings account that was charges free.

I suspect now they just hand them a Credit Card with a cartoon character on it.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck talk about kill the messenger. The list of entities that compile media stats across all media platforms and country by country is huge.

So you take them at their word as proof that VOR has massive reach without understanding or questioning the figures.

i for one question how can an event with such supposedly massive viewer numbers is failing to attract enough sponsors to have all VO65 on the water. SCAis gathering dust and a private team is running another boat without sponsors.

You are clearly happy to hump your own leg and believe that it’s the real deal!

 

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It’s not a case of kill the messenger, it’s a case of trying to provoke you in to examining the message for credibility. 

Instead of thinking, questioning and discussing, you are trying to shut down doubters with pathetic attempts at insults

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25 minutes ago, hoppy said:

It’s not a case of kill the messenger, it’s a case of trying to provoke you in to examining the message for credibility. 

Instead of thinking, questioning and discussing, you are trying to shut down doubters with pathetic attempts at insults

 

29 minutes ago, hoppy said:

So you take them at their word as proof that VOR has massive reach without understanding or questioning the figures.

You are clearly happy to hump your own leg and believe that it’s the real deal!

Hoppy I have neither the time or interest to interrogate a trillion media statistic providers as to the methodology behind their collection and compilation of data for the VOR to satisfy your curiousity.

I also remind you of the following caveat I placed up thread on the statistics I have posted here and you want to quibble about.

"Caveat: I do subscribe to the notion, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". However when measured over a period or edition by edition, they do give a near infallible picture of health and status of a sports event in terms of marketing.

I have the luxury when formulating my opinions of having at my disposal a lot of media related statistics attaching to both the V70 and V65 editions. These statistics are compiled by third party entities for the most part independent of the RO/Volvo so I do trust them".

To continue provoking the question as you do is therefore pointless and in my book is not just humping, it is humping with intent.

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40 minutes ago, hoppy said:

i for one question how can an event with such supposedly massive viewer numbers is failing to attract enough sponsors to have all VO65 on the water. SCAis gathering dust and a private team is running another boat without sponsors.

Try reading this thread, the answer to your question is sitting there in the minds of many contributors here.

As you question the audience and global reach of the VOR, then how about getting off your arse and "substantiating" that notion instead of blowing it out of there.

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

i for one question how can an event with such supposedly massive viewer numbers is failing to attract enough sponsors

Because the numbers are most likely bullshit.

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pano the point you simply don't want to accept is the VOR has a larger audience and it is global. The VG RO and it's participants have stated that publicaly.

You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

When did they say that?

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17 hours ago, southerncross said:

The future of The Race is here!  He built it and they came.  $90MM in seed money. 

Maybe the future of the race, catered to the new audience, is a combination of the VOR game and an unmanned boat controlled from the users mobile device.

 

I surely hope not SX.

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TV viewing numbers of 1.6 Bn or 293 Mn EUR in publicity value are completely bullshit. It counts any mention of VOR in any type of TV channel and multiplies it with estimated audience. I.e. if VOR gets a 10 second mention in a Chinese News channel with 50 Mn viewers, it adds 50 Mn viewers into the overall sum. (on the value it estimates how much would it cost to place an ad in that TV program). 

As someone mentioned before, the fact that the VOR mainly attracts B2B companies proves that the branding exposure that B2C companies look for is not there (or better said, the ROI is not worth its while). For us, hardcore fans, it is difficult to grasp, but the VOR is not a major sporting property. Ask anyone on the street if they know the Volvo Ocean Race and 9 out of 10 won't know what you are talking about. 

Sure, the VG has a way larger audience (% wise) in France, but only there. Outside of France it is less known than the VOR. 

A pity there was no announcement in Newport... well, somethings needs to happen before the end of the race... hopefully. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-05-23 at 11.01.31.png

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I would be happy if it could support itself and hopefully about 10 healthy teams. It doesn't have to become the new black. The coverage we get now is pretty fantastic, sure beats watching black and white AC highlights in the middle of the night in your jammies. But that's a story for another time.

The last thing it needs is an arms race with the top skippers and crew holding 6 passports and Cayard on commentary.

But then I'm three times the age of the target market these days.

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1 hour ago, JeronimoII said:

TV viewing numbers of 1.6 Bn or 293 Mn EUR in publicity value are completely bullshit.

Sure, the VG has a way larger audience (% wise) in France, but only there. Outside of France it is less known than the VOR

True but you forget the VG use nearly exactly the same media stats and value methodology as the VOR. They are both in the same bullshit business chasing sponsorship using exactly the same number generators.

However their actual numbers then become irrelevant. It is then an "apples with apples" comparison which Jero you have omitted putting up than nonsense grsphy.

This should not be a partisan debate defending why the VG works. It is why the VOR is fucked.

If anyone is interested I will go to the trouble of putting VG/VOR media stats up side side if they doubt what I have articulated.

Anyway this is all confusing the fuck out of Hoppy and Pano who think that the VG having a lessor audience reach is all Voodoo music.

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pano the point you simply don't want to accept is the VOR has a larger audience and it is global. The VG RO and it's participants have stated that publicaly.

You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

 

6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

 When did they say that?

Pano you and Hoppy have the same lazy fuck sickness, from what I can see you put more into typing than reading, let alone absorbing here.

This is a room full of some pretty smart people and where I regard myself at the bottom of the ladder. 

Shape up or ship out.

 

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55 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

True but you forget the VG use nearly exactly the same media stats and value methodology as the VOR. They are both in the same bullshit business chasing sponsorship using exactly the same number generators.

However their actual numbers then become irrelevant. It is then an "apples with apples" comparison which Jero you have omitted putting up than nonsense grsphy.

And the evidence is???????

I strongly suggest that the level VG coverage and general public knowledge of VG is significantly greater than anything VOR can claim in any country. Potential VG sponsors in France will have access to the official, independent ratings of any VG shows and will be in a much better position to call BS on made up viewer numbers than sponsors for VOR have. I suspect Pano can enlighten on the coverage of VG 

 

55 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If anyone is interested I will go to the trouble of putting VG/VOR media stats up side side if they doubt what I have articulated.

Anyway this is all confusing the fuck out of Hoppy and Pano who think that the VG having a lessor audience reach is all Voodoo music.

Go ahead...

 

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

True but you forget the VG use nearly exactly the same media stats and value methodology as the VOR. They are both in the same bullshit business chasing sponsorship using exactly the same number generators.

However their actual numbers then become irrelevant. It is then an "apples with apples" comparison which Jero you have omitted putting up than nonsense grsphy.

This should not be a partisan debate defending why the VG works. It is why the VOR is fucked.

If anyone is interested I will go to the trouble of putting VG/VOR media stats up side side if they doubt what I have articulated.

Anyway this is all confusing the fuck out of Hoppy and Pano who think that the VG having a lessor audience reach is all Voodoo music.

Jack I have no doubt as to the veracity and robustrness of your media stats.  But media stats don't make a business case.  Eyeballs aren't shareholder returns.  

Is VOR a seriously investable proposition for a sponsor?  Nothing I've seen posted in here this far says so.

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40 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Jack I have no doubt as to the veracity and robustrness of your media stats.  But media stats don't make a business case.  Eyeballs aren't shareholder returns.  

Is VOR a seriously investable proposition for a sponsor?  Nothing I've seen posted in here this far says so.

Could not agree more Dick. The VOR media stats may be great but the business case sucks.

My defending media stats has unfortunately got caught up in the VOR versus VG audience debate which I'm sure Hoppy and Pano have not finished with me yet. Bit like kicking shit off ones shoe, it doesn't all disappear in one movement.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

I strongly suggest that the level VG coverage and general public knowledge of VG is significantly greater than anything VOR can claim in any country...

..I suspect Pano can enlighten on the coverage of VG. 

Well both of you put up your VG numbers or shut the fuck up.

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4 hours ago, paps49 said:

I surely hope not SX.

Forgot to use the pink font color.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

I strongly suggest that the level VG coverage and general public knowledge of VG is significantly greater than anything VOR can claim in any country. 

Hoppy, even among sailors alone I bet you that in Australia (or even just Melbourne) general public knowledge of the VOR far exceeds that of the VG.

I have no stats to support that just having lived and breathed both for a long time.  

No matter how badly the stopover in Melbourne was run it must have raised the VOR profile a great deal.  VG sails past a long way away and even though one boat arrived in Melbourne I bet there was very little recognition other than by the very well informed.

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Could not agree more Dick. The VOR media stats may be great but the business case sucks. My defending stats had unfortunately got caught up in the VOR versus VG audience debate which I'm sure Hoppy and Pano have not finished with me yet.

You are defending stats that to all but the most stupid are at very least are questionable. You started it by comparing your fantasy figures with Pano's, 

On 5/22/2018 at 11:59 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Your are hard man to convince Pano.

Putting aside that I think you will find your 10M is low, VOR doesn't just equal VG TV audience, it smashes it.

The last few editions of the VOR attracted a cumulative TV audience around 1.6 Billion plus every edition and where the publicity value of TV is still only a quarter of the publicity value of the total of all mediums incl On-Line News etc. 

I couldn't fit here the list of TV stations it is broadcast globally. As for where, well Europe has around one-third the TV audience leaving two-thirds for the rest of the world.

As for On-Line the audience numbers are scary.

The reason you are probably having trouble appreciating the global media reach of the VOR is France has a relatively small VOR audience compared to other Euro countries.

FWIW For the last Vendee Globe they produced a very detailed report breaking down the figures. 

vendee globe communication report
 

Quote

 

START Record audiences: > 10 million TV viewers at 13h02 TF1: 5.8M people and 34.4% of total audience France 3: 1.7M people and 9.8% of total audience France 2: 1.6M people at the start of the TV news BFMTV: 0.85M people and 9.7% of total audience between 8h45 and 11h L’Equipe: 0.55M people and 2.3% of total audience between 13h and 13h30 + broadcast on France 3 Régions, BFM Sport, Infosport+ and TV Vendée Total live coverage of the start in France: 36 hours

FINISHES Excellent audience figures, particularly for the TV news: TF1: 6.5M people at start of TV news at 20h (> at the average of 6M) France 3 Régions: 0.43M people between 18h and 18h52 C News : Fil rouge VG throughout the day + special programmes 16h00 - 23h30 BFMTV: 0.7M people for crossing the finishing line and 6% total audience L’Equipe: 0.3M people for crossing the finishing line and 2.7 % total audience + broadcast on France Info, LCI, BFM Sport, Infosport+ and TV Vendée Total live coverage of the finish in France: 50 hours Volume above the live coverage for the start which can be explained by the closeness of the finish with Alex Thomson + coverage by C


 

Until I see a similar report on VOR figures, I'm calling them questionable

 

BTW Kiwi's, spot the problem :)

Untitled.jpeg

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28 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Well both of you put up your VG numbers or shut the fuck up.

I'm calling in question the VOR figures as being extravagant and you are defending them without offering support. The VG figures are irrelevant, but I have posted them anyway, not that it matters.

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17 minutes ago, DtM said:

Hoppy, even among sailors alone I bet you that in Australia (or even just Melbourne) general public knowledge of the VOR far exceeds that of the VG.

I have no stats to support that just having lived and breathed both for a long time.  

No matter how badly the stopover in Melbourne was run it must have raised the VOR profile a great deal.  VG sails past a long way away and even though one boat arrived in Melbourne I bet there was very little recognition other than by the very well informed.

Actually the Vendee Globe gets way more prime time TV coverage in mainstream Aussie media than VOR does. 

When the Navy is called to rescue Vendee Globe sailors, the media goes into a feeding frenzy and the rescues are closely followed by the news and as it happens so far from land, the media follows the ships progress for days to the rescue site and then there are the interviews on the return and various commentators complaining about the cost to tax payers. Because of the history we have with rescues, even rescues done outside of our SAR area get a mention. 

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/great-survival-stories-tony-bullimore-ng-ya-130522

https://www.smh.com.au/national/sailor-would-have-died-says-rescuer-20081221-730s.html

VOR had no profile in Melbourne to raise. If you did not already follow the VOR or if you don't work near or pass the village site, you would not have had a clue they were in town. It's pretty pathetic that the VOR RO's could not even entice channel 7 to give it coverage when their offices was within spitting distance of the race village.

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36 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Forgot to use the pink font color.

Random would approve, regardless of the colour.

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Still waiting for the announcement.

Commenting on comments upthread, why build a boat that is only raced in The Race every four years for 2 - 3 editions.  Every four years.  Difficult to sustain interest with the new audience that doesn't know the difference between a monohull and a tri.  IMOCA's are raced in several other races including the VG.  Good prep for the big one.

Other than increase The Race schedule to every two years (not likely), in terms of global impact, sponsorship ROI etc etc wouldn't annual competition in other major offshore races increase brand awareness?   Fastnet was a success.  Didn't they do they Round Island too?  Races that are in close proximity to Alicante.  

Racing in the Med would have great exposure.  The Transpac would reach the Western US.  Sydney to Hobart would bring great exposure down in ol' Oz.  Some Asian races?  Keep it going year round.  The teams only getting sharper for The Big One. 

But then how would RO fund delivery, teams, stopover?   One benefit of a combined private/sponsor program?  

I look to the afterlife success of the VO70, still smashing records in races all over the world.  But in their current form are hardly associated with the VOR at all.  

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47 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I'm calling in question the VOR figures as being extravagant and you are defending them without offering support. The VG figures are irrelevant, but I have posted them anyway, not that it matters.

Hoppy you really break me up.

You are calling into question VOR figures as being extravagant, yet it seems you have no knowledge of them in detail as apposed to the VG ones you posted above, yet you say they are irrelevant?? That is gobblygook.

You say I'm defending VOR media stats (you have no complete knowledge of) yet I have said days ago upthread and a short while ago for your sole benefit;

Caveat: I do subscribe to the notion, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". However when measured over a period or edition by edition, they do give a near infallible picture of health and status of a sports event in terms of marketing.

I have the luxury when formulating my opinions of having at my disposal a lot of media related statistics attaching to both the V70 and V65 editions. These statistics are compiled by third party entities for the most part independent of the RO/Volvo so I do trust them".

And I have  also said

3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

True but you forget the VG use nearly exactly the same media stats and value methodology as the VOR. They are both in the same bullshit business chasing sponsorship using exactly the same number generators.

However their actual numbers then become irrelevant. It is then an "apples with apples" comparison..

Hoppy your way out of this corner you have built yourself into to support your proposition the VG has a wider audience than the VOR I have no suggestion to, other than it leading to me belittling you further and with a statistical and factual hammer that makes you look so very foolish if you don't fold your tent now.

Are you sure you want to continue?

I would take the temporary insanity plea if I was you.

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Seriously Jack, quit playing the man and play the ball. You are a fool to believe that 1.6 Billion cumulative TV views is an accurate representation of the VOR following without seeking to substantiate or at least question them.

Sure, when measured the same way using the same questionable assumptions, you can gain a realistic view of the "health" of the VOR over various events, but that does not substantiate the claimed 1.6 billion.

If I was a potential sponsor, I would a event on event growth of viewers as a good thing, but I would certainly seek to substantiate the methodology used in coming up with the numbers, so I can calculate the potential benefit of sponsorship before I write numbers down on the cheque.

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32 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I look to the afterlife success of the VO70, still smashing records in races all over the world.

I love them to death SX but name the last record...ogh fuck it has just suddenly dawned on me, your last blow job was on a V70..one was moored close by when that happened??.

 

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7 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Seriously Jack, quit playing the man and play the ball

You are the one who has been playing the man/messanger..stump up with your figures that support your viewpoint or fuckin hop off. Seems you can't?

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

I love them to death SX but name the last record

Warrior's record I posted in this thread.  I've posted many but I'll be buggered if I'm going to look them up.

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You are the one who has been playing the man/messanger..stump up with your figures that support your viewpoint or fuckin hop off. Seems you can't?

I'd tell you to fucking jack off, but that seems to be what you are doing all the time. I'm calling BS on the figures you present, you substantiate them. Of course you can't because the methodology used is flawed.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Warrior's record I posted in this thread.  I've posted many but I'll be buggered if I'm going to look them up.

Sorry mate I should have said serious record ignoring Maserati's world tour chasing Clippers. If you go looking it goes back away consistent with a 10/15 year old design. Not very consistent with your foiling and future epiphany up thread mate??? :-)

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Not very consistent with your foiling and future epiphany up thread mate??? :-)

Not suggesting any return to the old 70.  Just using their longevity as a benchmark.  This is why I suggest the next design should have "record breaking" and "longevity" built in - foils or no and something that can be campaigned year round.

Anyway, checking out until the report come in. 

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42 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I'd tell you to fucking jack off, but that seems to be what you are doing all the time. I'm calling BS on the figures you present, you substantiate them. Of course you can't because the methodology used is flawed.

So Hoppy are you happy with the proposal I post all the VG's bullshit figures beside all the VOR's bullshit figures here and which will make you look very fuckin foolish if not make your dick shrink on account of everything you have said upthread?

Weasel words are over now mate..simple Yes OR No and you accept them for what they are?

Hoppy over that, all I can say is  "a man's GOT to know his limitations"

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26 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Not suggesting any return to the old 70.  Just using their longevity as a benchmark.  This is why I suggest the next design should have "record breaking" and "longevity" built in - foils or no and something that can be campaigned year round.

Anyway, checking out until the report come in. 

We and many here both agree in spades there brother. That aside no V70 blow job involved?

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32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

We and many here both agree in spades there brother. That aside no V70 blow job involved?

Don’t recall a V70 BJ but a Wally comes to mind.

Here is an interesting podcast reviewing the Newport stopover and all the corporate sponsorship activities that took place.

http://whatsupnewp.com/podcast-evan-smith-and-brad-read-recap-volvo-ocean-race-newport-stopover-jill-davidson-talks-newport-bridgefest/

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16 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pano the point you simply don't want to accept is the VOR has a larger audience and it is global. The VG RO and it's participants have stated that publicaly.

You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

The VOR does have a larger audience, but it doesn't have a large audience.

the 1.6B number is OTS most likely.  It is a useless metric. 

https://www.mbaskool.com/business-concepts/marketing-and-strategy-terms/16592-opportunity-to-see-ots.html

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19 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

The VOR does have a larger audience, but it doesn't have a large audience.

the 1.6B number is OTS most likely.  It is a useless metric.

Mate correct on both counts...the social media stats get even more rubbery as while having a huge impact, very hard to quantify in terms of publicity value, so many don't bother, even though it eats traditionals like TV and publications that have long standing audience measures that media buyers understand.

More importantly have you stepped out of marketing and now driving that carwash business?

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54 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Don’t recall a V70 BJ but a Wally comes to mind.

How did you find him...don't they all look alike??

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Don’t recall a V70 BJ but a Wally comes to mind.

Damn. Stepped right into that one.

Shifting into back pedal.  

I believe her name was Alexandra Wallinski.  We called her Wally for short.

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Pano you and Hoppy have the same lazy fuck sickness, from what I can see you put more into typing than reading, let alone absorbing here.

This is a room full of some pretty smart people and where I regard myself at the bottom of the ladder. 

Shape up or ship out.

 

 

No need to get angry, you just haven't convinced me that the VOR has such a huge audience, that's all the earth won't get off its orbit. May be I am wrong and there is a huge following somewhere I am not aware of.... Point me toward it and I will change my mind. I lived in France, Switzerland, the UK and Colombia and in these countries the TV channels listed above are pretty minor apart from channel 4 in the UK. Nevertheless I know from when I was there that the VOR didn't have a high profile, the clipper race had a higher profile with their ads in train stations. In France it is on subscription TV (canal +) nationwide and on 2 local Breton TV channels, there are 3 local channel in Brittany (sister companies) and the one in the most populous part of the region isn't even listed, when you see how many people turn up to watch races starts here, not even covering entirely Brittany is pretty poor. In Switzerland and Colombia it is on obscure channels I've never heard of before.

Alex Thomson wants more international exposure because unlike most of the other well funded skippers, he has a sponsor rooting for a truly international audience. He's open about it and the other VG skippers would be sad to loose him as they value international competition from a sporting perspective but beyond this don't really need this audience. Remember the VG is overbooked, that's one of the reason why pro skippers don't like privateers, they consider that these guys might end up taking away opportunities to compete from them.

 

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mate correct on both counts...the social media stats get even more rubbery as while having a huge impact, very hard to quantify in terms of publicity value, so many don't bother, even though it eats traditionals like TV and publications that have long standing audience measures that media buyers understand.

More importantly have you stepped out of marketing and now driving that carwash business?

I'm all about the car wash business.

 

I noticed something interesting this time around: VOR's facebook followers have barely increased at all.  They were well over a million at the end of the last race, having added about 2/3 of it during the race and in the 1 year buildup to 2014.

I'm not sure whether they bought a big chunk of followers and now it looks glacial in contrast, or if they just stopped working at it once Knut left

 

 

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Not sure what your question is SX, but it's definitely true that more average frenchman know what the VG is than the rest.  They are inundated with it in the news and on TV for the better part of a month every four years.  Few french even knew there WAS a french AC challenge

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Not sure what your question is SX, but it's definitely true that more average frenchman know what the VG is than the rest.  They are inundated with it in the news and on TV for the better part of a month every four years.  Few french even knew there WAS a french AC challenge

Nothing raises a profile like winning. Had they performed, the recognition would have followed, no doubt.

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

So Hoppy are you happy with the proposal I post all the VG's bullshit figures beside all the VOR's bullshit figures here and which will make you look very fuckin foolish if not make your dick shrink on account of everything you have said upthread?

Weasel words are over now mate..simple Yes OR No and you accept them for what they are?

Hoppy over that, all I can say is  "a man's GOT to know his limitations"

The only one who is foolish here is you...

Accepting the 1.6billion "headline" figures without asking for the numbers to be substantiated is like buying a boat and trusting the owners assertion that its fine, rather than performing a survey.

Used car dealers must love you

sucker.jpg?w=337

 

Since you could not be bothered engaging in a sensible discussion substantiating the figures you posted here, I will do it for you, for 2011-2012

https://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/assets/content/media/files/m23271_volvo-ocean-race-race-report-final-low-res-email.pdf 

 

517095839_Untitled2.thumb.jpeg.61d432eb0d5d21a8ccd64e40967a7968.jpeg

 

 

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@hoppy the moment that the numbers from 2011-12 were published anyone looking at them said they were crap. Cumulative numbers! FFS! That really means nothing. I think you agree.

wrt the argument about VG versus VOR. The whole thing is irrelevant in my opinion.  It is quite possible the VG figures are better overall, but are they better if you take France out of the question?  I would guess not. So, one event may have better viewing figures, but the other may have better global coverage.

The two events are different, and arguing which one has the better number is slightly disingenuous. Which I thin is what you and Jack are arguing about, but from different perspectives

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13 minutes ago, Potter said:

@hoppy the moment that the numbers from 2011-12 were published anyone looking at them said they were crap. Cumulative numbers! FFS! That really means nothing. I think you agree.

wrt the argument about VG versus VOR. The whole thing is irrelevant in my opinion.  It is quite possible the VG figures are better overall, but are they better if you take France out of the question?  I would guess not. So, one event may have better viewing figures, but the other may have better global coverage.

The two events are different, and arguing which one has the better number is slightly disingenuous. Which I thin is what you and Jack are arguing about, but from different perspectives

I'm not arguing about which event have the better number, even a drunk Irishman should be able to figure out that VG will be way better in France and the VOR with a more world wide appeal will have significantly greater numbers, but a 1.6B figure sounded pretty dodgy even when they are cumulative. Now that I have found out how much coverage VOR has in China I can see where the big numbers come from.

I'm surprised that Jack would try to blow Pano's figures out of the water without questioning at all.

On the plus side, the VOR has shown how useless cumulative figures are and I can imagine that some potential sponsors would lose interest pretty quickly unless they can independently confirm the unique figures.

China's 720m viewers of 158hrs of coverage could be broken down as 632 15 minute segments watched by 1.13 million unique viewers, but who knows? Chances are a big portion are people who were watching news or a sports show and saw a couple of minutes of boring sailing they are not paying attention to.

At least the viewer numbers posted by Pano were viewer numbers of the race start. 

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15 minutes ago, Potter said:

@hoppy the moment that the numbers from 2011-12 were published anyone looking at them said they were crap. Cumulative numbers! FFS! That really means nothing. I think you agree.

wrt the argument about VG versus VOR. The whole thing is irrelevant in my opinion.  It is quite possible the VG figures are better overall, but are they better if you take France out of the question?  I would guess not. So, one event may have better viewing figures, but the other may have better global coverage.

The two events are different, and arguing which one has the better number is slightly disingenuous. Which I thin is what you and Jack are arguing about, but from different perspectives

Err yes, 62m in NZ for instance shows how silly cumulative numbers can be.

On the second point I could not agree more.

 

 

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On 5/22/2018 at 9:59 AM, Panoramix said:

Yes, the VOR has 100 000ish subscriber

and the VG has 20 000ish subscriber

Nevertheless it is much easier to follow the VG because it will be on the news nearly daily so people are less likely to have to browse You tube to get their fix. If you go on alexa, the VOR is way ahead but that's normal because it is happening now. The second audience of the VOR website is France (behind the USA).

Remember, the VG data you are talking about is likely mostly Europeans. The VG gets virtually no media coverage in the US, aside from the occasional mention if there is a seriously damaged boat and the skipper is at risk of life and limb. I don't know what the VG coverage is in the rest of the world.

If you already know and are interested in the VOR there is actually now a fair amount of information produced with the Tracker, Raw Content (which is fantastic), interviews etc. posted on You Tube and Facebook (somewhat of a dying media platform in the US I think), albeit very few articles posted by VOR, not like with Jenny; no T V shows due to Inmarsat sucking all the bandwidth for them like last year though I don't know what the viewership was, I do know it was next to impossible to find them and you had to have the top of the line cable package to do so, maybe streaming but, he Quick Fix and the Daily Shows are okay.  The Teams, and the VOR, have a web site, Twitter, Facebook pages, an APP, it's really a bit overwhelming and confusing, but take your pick or poison. Not all are kept up to date either.  It is attracting new and, and sponsors, that is a problem, IMO. 

I thought Sailing Illustrated/Tuesdays with TFE was going to have an interview with Richard Bresius at VOR and someone else about the future of the VOR; TFE made is sound like it was going to be some hot inside scoop, but I didn't get a notice yesterday of the program like I usually do and couldn't find it online last night. 

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3 hours ago, hoppy said:

On the plus side, the VOR has shown how useless cumulative figures are and I can imagine that some potential sponsors would lose interest pretty quickly unless they can independently confirm the unique figures.

At least the viewer numbers posted by Pano were viewer numbers of the race start. 

Hoppy park TV stats they one of many media stats and actually a minority audience and promotional dollar value number if you care to look.

You say upthread the VG media numbers are bullshit and the VOR media numbers are bullshit.

So bearing in mind that (and for some media stats they come from exactly the same source), doesn't that mean all their stats and accross all platforms side by side are an apples with apples comparison plus or minus?

Simple answer Yes or No and forget the gobblygook?

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5 hours ago, Potter said:

The two events are different, and arguing which one has the better number is slightly disingenuous.

I thought the point of the comparison was because there was a VOR/IMOCA merger in the works and some were saying the Vendee could benefit from the global exposure the VOR experiences.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

You say upthread the VG media numbers are bullshit and the VOR media numbers are bullshit.

I'm still talking about TV 

because......

On 5/22/2018 at 11:59 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Putting aside that I think you will find your 10M is low, VOR doesn't just equal VG TV audience, it smashes it.

The last few editions of the VOR attracted a cumulative TV audience around 1.6 Billion plus every edition and where the publicity value of TV is still only a quarter of the publicity value of the total of all mediums incl On-Line News etc. 

The VG 10m figure is about as accurate as you are ever going to get short of having smart TV's recording and reporting program viewing

Quote

START Record audiences: > 10 million TV viewers at 13h02 TF1: 5.8M people and 34.4% of total audience France 3: 1.7M people and 9.8% of total audience France 2: 1.6M people at the start of the TV news BFMTV: 0.85M people and 9.7% of total audience between 8h45 and 11h L’Equipe: 0.55M people and 2.3% of total audience between 13h and 13h30 + broadcast on France 3 Régions, BFM Sport, Infosport+ and TV Vendée Total live coverage of the start in France: 36 hours

 

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

So bearing in mind that (and for some media stats they come from exactly the same source), doesn't that mean all their stats and accross all platforms side by side are an apples with apples comparison plus or minus?

Simple answer Yes or No and forget the gobblygook?

 

No...TV figures are certainly reported very differently with VG highlighting an accepted metric for viewer number in France for the start and VOR a figure for the whole race. 

and 

Yes... internet figures are probably a fair comparison, but I have not looked at them and have little interest to do so. I'm sure potential sponsors will want to question the metrics and assumptions used by the research companies to ensure they will be getting the value published (both VOR & VG) 

 

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2 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

Remember, the VG data you are talking about is likely mostly Europeans. The VG gets virtually no media coverage in the US, aside from the occasional mention if there is a seriously damaged boat and the skipper is at risk of life and limb. I don't know what the VG coverage is in the rest of the world.

Sponsoring VG is perhaps best suited to companies interested primarily in the French market. Although sponsoring Alex Thompson is giving HB a worldwide coverage, but that's much more to do with the stunts and viral videos rather than the VG racing.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

So bearing in mind that (and for some media stats they come from exactly the same source), doesn't that mean all their stats and accross all platforms side by side are an apples with apples comparison plus or minus?

Simple answer Yes or No and forget the gobblygook?

 

13 minutes ago, hoppy said:

No...TV figures are certainly reported very differently with VG highlighting an accepted metric for viewer number in France for the start and VOR a figure for the whole race. 

and 

Yes... internet figures are probably a fair comparison, but I have not looked at them and have little interest to do so. I'm sure potential sponsors will want to question the metrics and assumptions used by the research companies to ensure they will be getting the value published (both VOR & VG

OK you got the gobblygook off your chest.

So simple answer Yes OR No?

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Ok then NO

because they are used differently when presenting numbers to potential sponsors

 

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34 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I thought the point of the comparison was because there was a VOR/IMOCA merger in the works and some were saying the Vendee could benefit from the global exposure the VOR experiences.

The point is simply to try and establish if there is a market and does it have a value going forward. See my OP.

If that includes a comparison with the VG so be it. Unfortunately the Hoppy as he is so good at doing is hijacking that.

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4 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Ok then NO

because they are used differently when presenting numbers to potential sponsors

 

Great. Then with nothing further to add to that aspect can you please take a back seat and let others do so.

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30 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The point is simply to try and establish if there is a market and does it have a value going forward. See my OP.

If that includes a comparison with the VG so be it. Unfortunately the Hoppy as he is so good at doing is hijacking that.

No hijacking... I was questioning the VOR BS cumulative viewer figure you posted to try to show up Pano and the VG. 

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8 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

Remember, the VG data you are talking about is likely mostly Europeans. The VG gets virtually no media coverage in the US, aside from the occasional mention if there is a seriously damaged boat and the skipper is at risk of life and limb. I don't know what the VG coverage is in the rest of the world.

 If you already know and are interested in the VOR there is actually now a fair amount of information produced with the Tracker, Raw Content (which is fantastic), interviews etc. posted on You Tube and Facebook (somewhat of a dying media platform in the US I think), albeit very few articles posted by VOR, not like with Jenny; no T V shows due to Inmarsat sucking all the bandwidth for them like last year though I don't know what the viewership was, I do know it was next to impossible to find them and you had to have the top of the line cable package to do so, maybe streaming but, he Quick Fix and the Daily Shows are okay.  The Teams, and the VOR, have a web site, Twitter, Facebook pages, an APP, it's really a bit overwhelming and confusing, but take your pick or poison. Not all are kept up to date either.  It is attracting new and, and sponsors, that is a problem, IMO. 

I thought Sailing Illustrated/Tuesdays with TFE was going to have an interview with Richard Bresius at VOR and someone else about the future of the VOR; TFE made is sound like it was going to be some hot inside scoop, but I didn't get a notice yesterday of the program like I usually do and couldn't find it online last night. 

to be fair, Chris Museler did several big pieces in the NYT last time around, including a front page sports section piece.  SO while the VG doesn't reach the US very well, it is reaching it better than ever before thanks to social media as well as a handful of influential writers and web editors.

Interestingly, it's been much tougher than last time to get mainstream US media to report on the VOR this time around, and VOR isn't quite sure why.

 

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^^^The NYT articles were the only coverage in the mainstream press in the US of the last VG; similarly for this edition of the VOR: a handful of NYT articles, generally when there was a tragic event.   

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

Interestingly, it's been much tougher than last time to get mainstream US media to report on the VOR this time around, and VOR isn't quite sure why.

 

anyone who has followed ocean racing for a good number of years could tell them why that is, and a good many already have on the SA forums.

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We might have to revisit the OD versus Box Rule argument :-)

Akzo at 588 nm is currently 9 mile shy of Ericsson 4's 24 hour record and which was a world record until broken by Comanche with 618 nm.

 

 

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18 hours ago, hoppy said:

I'm not arguing about which event have the better number, even a drunk Irishman should be able to figure out that VG will be way better in France and the VOR with a more world wide appeal will have significantly greater numbers, but a 1.6B figure sounded pretty dodgy even when they are cumulative. Now that I have found out how much coverage VOR has in China I can see where the big numbers come from.

I'm surprised that Jack would try to blow Pano's figures out of the water without questioning at all.

On the plus side, the VOR has shown how useless cumulative figures are and I can imagine that some potential sponsors would lose interest pretty quickly unless they can independently confirm the unique figures.

China's 720m viewers of 158hrs of coverage could be broken down as 632 15 minute segments watched by 1.13 million unique viewers, but who knows? Chances are a big portion are people who were watching news or a sports show and saw a couple of minutes of boring sailing they are not paying attention to.

At least the viewer numbers posted by Pano were viewer numbers of the race start. 

1.98 million Chinese plugged in to watch the Guangzhou pro-am livestream on Wechat which will give you an idea of some of the potential here

And virtually every Chinese person has a smart phone

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48 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

1.98 million Chinese plugged in to watch the Guangzhou pro-am livestream on Wechat which will give you an idea of some of the potential here

And virtually every Chinese person has a smart phone

And virtually none of them are likely to buy any of the races sponsor products any time soon.  

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I'll bite. Per Clean.

"Interestingly, it's been much tougher than last time to get mainstream US media to report on the VOR this time around, and VOR isn't quite sure why. "

I see this race as a sponsor billboard parade.

I've previously posted that I wasn't really up for Auckland and enjoyed it far more than I thought I would. But when it is OD, the teams are partially / mostly funded by Volvo related entities, and the in ports are a diversion, I'll enjoy popping in and out but haven't really invested. And because my kids don't buy into the boat titles, they go "oh ok" when I give them an update.

BUT - they have no idea about IMOCA either.

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