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Zach

Source for angled hawse pipes?

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Hi Guys,

I'm curious if anyone has a source for angled through bulwark hawsepipes.   Similar to what the yacht Dorade has in her bow? 

Rather than straight through style, they are canted forward so the line doesn't have as bad of a chafe point to a mooring. 

I'm putting a bow roller on my Luders 44, which has a similar stem shape to Dorade...  The idea would be to move the mooring lines Under the damn anchor roller might keep me from having yet another chafe point, as the line off the cleat wouldn't have to go up 7 inches off the deck to the top of the toe rail, then back down a radius tight enough that it chews grooves in the outside of the toe rail on its way down to the mooring line.  When I sanded the paint off she's got 7 or 8 different faired in battle scars from lines and chain that have tried to cut into her bulwarks.  Cleats on the toe rail suck.

I've got the bow opened up to reattach the backing plates that dropped into no-mans land when I pulled the original stem fitting, so I'm sitting in my thinking chair...  Hard for a mooring line to jump out of a solid ring of bronze, and given she's off the design board of 1939 they wouldn't look totally out of place.    

Thanks,

Zach

 

 

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I've never seen angled hawse pipes like you describe (I understand what you're trying).

I think regular ones that are perpendicular to the bulwark are just as good if they have a decent radius. The Sea Dog ones are silly tight radiuses.

But you still need chafing gear on the line :)

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Deck End Roller - Stainless Steel  this from the Fisheries Supply link should handle chafe.

Of course it's a bit fugly.  

 

If you are rebuilding your Bulwark you could inset one of these?   3-Way Roller - Stainless Steel1002921-asano-metal-ak19002-3-way-roller-ppd1-tif

PECIFICATION
Type 3-Way Roller - Stainless Steel, 8" Wide Roller
Material Stainless Steel
Size 200 mm (8")
L1 132 mm (5.2")
P 182 mm (7.17")
W 46 mm (1.81")
H1 40 mm (1.57")
Fastener 9 mm (0.354")
Hex Wrenches 2.5, 3 & 8 mm
Weight 2.5 kg (5.5 lb)
L 204 mm (8")
B 60 mm (2.36")
P1 42 mm (1.65")
H 66 mm (2.56")

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This would be the trick pony I'm looking for... http://dorade.org/2011/07/22/cove-stripe/

Basically any conventional fairlead or chock that is meant to mount on top of the deck, or in my case bulwark still gives me the same exit point as a regular chock unless I recess it.  Then it has to be aft of my anchor roller, and not a real fair lead to a mooring.  

Lioness, I'm real hesitant to cut down the top of the toe rail and cut in for recessed chocks like you see those mounted at deck level.  She's 3/4 of an inch thick glass on the top of the bulwark and seems like giving up a lot of strength.  Doing a recessed mount like what Hinkley does with a big ass piece of chromed bronze is the perfect fix...  But I have what I have to work with, as the stem fitting is a new piece of stainless.  

She's a bit odd duck in that the deck dropped over an over-turned flange making the toe rail...  Then the outside edge got cut down, rounded over and glassed back the other way...  With the underside of the deck tabbed to the hull making a hollow void for my backing plates to fall into.  Water tight, but not possible to maintain anything....   

I had to open her up to get the old backing plates out, and need to do some glass work to add to add a bit of beef to catch the rear bolt for my anchor roller.   

That opened up the opportunity to study running a pair of hawse pipes through.  I may stop in and see a fabricator buddy and see if it is something he'd take on. 

Zonkers, I hear you on the Seadog stuff.  Hit and miss on how well thought out it is.  I've had good luck with their yacht cleats.  Had a pair of 18 inch ones on the bow of a wooden yacht I was redoing.  It was laying on 1 1/8th poly-dac and broke the dolphin of three 12 inch green heart pilings above the waterline in a hurricane.  We were sharing the dolphin with a hundred foot steel yacht and my bow cleat turned into its stern line.  Shocked me, but I put them on with shaft strut bolts on a brand new deck and everything stayed put...  Good stuff. 

Zach

bow.jpg

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You don't say anything about your ground tackle so it's difficult to understand your problem.

If you're using a rope rode, then you need some serious attention to preventing chafe and I don't believe a hawse pipe between the hook and the mooring cleat is part of that solution.

If you're using a chain rode, then I don't believe you want the chain passing off the boat from metal because of the grinding sounds it will cause.

The Luders is a pretty heavy boat and I'd recommend that if you're concerned about chafe you move to chain as the weight of the rode really won't affect your sailing performance that much.

 

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Hi Moonduster,

Anchor is a Rocna 73lb, 3/8 Chain about 200 feet +/-  is what I'm thinking for length.  We are aiming Maine to Florida keys cruising range.  The Chain will be going over an anchor roller. 

With Maine in the summer, the harbors closest to town don't have great holding for anchors so they set a mooring field, laying on a mooring ball with the anchor stowed is part of the design goal.

The new plumb stemmed stuff, has the same issue with being narrow.  They just put a wee small cleat right slam on the edge of the deck and get around this... it seems like a sin against humanity to do that to this boat boats sheer line.

Yes, the chock is a port side chock...  Just showing how little room there is to get out of the anchor roller channel. 

Plywood is just there to help mock up and have something to catch a screw, and figure out how far back I need to build a pedestal to catch a chain stopper in line with the windlass.   

Cheers,
Zach

 

IMG_7355.JPG

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First, your ground tackle is pretty heavy and, in my opinion, oversized for your boat. I'd definitely recommend using 5/16" HT chain, which saves you some 80 pounds. There's an infinity of opinion about anchor sizing, and Rocna is by far the most conservative manufacturer, but you're paying a stiff price with a 73 pound anchor on the bow. By comparison the Delta sizing table for your boat recommends a 35 pound anchor; you could go up two sizes and use a 55 pound delta and pull another 17 pounds off the bow. I would speak directly to Rocna regarding their sizing recommendation for your boat.

I'd remove that stem fitting and the bow roller and the chalk and take the three to a good welding shop and have them build you an integral solution that makes one side of the bow roller be the chain plate. You can really tidy everything up and come up with a much better solution if its in your budget.

With an all chain rode, you don't need to worry about chafe except for your snubber, which should go over your roller and will only bear on the sides of the roller cheek plates. Those should be flared a bit, although I prefer to make a 3-part snubber that's got a piece of wire rope spliced into the middle of the snubber so that it's the wire rope that sits on the bow roller and is the only element that sees any chafe. By putting a mooring clear well back on the deck, near to the base of the mast, you get plenty of snubber length for shock absorbing without a lot of snubber in the water.

With moorings, you have to choose whether you pull their line on deck or secure your boat with your line attached to theirs and leave the mooring tackle in the water. In either case, it's often best to take the hook off the bow and secure the mooring pennant through the bow roller.

 

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If you want the hawse  pipe for  “mooring lines” what do you do when you tie alongside ?

You will need port and starboard, and both forward and aft (spring) leads. 

Taking a notch out of the bulwark on each side under the aft end of your SS fitting, or placing it just aft with a gate strap would give you fair leads and not butcher your bow  

Since your anchor chain or mooring pennant will lead over the roller, they don’t affect the decision, other than if you have a bridle or single lead  for a snubber to the chain, or to rig a tow line. 

 

Lioness has the equivalent in a massive Bronze stemhead casting, with integral full radius chocks, that the 1” thick toe rail butts up to. The anchor roller is scabbed onto the Starboard side, and I’m going to probably install a Selden Gennaker sprit on the Port. There are two massive traditional cleats aft of the vertical axis windlass, and it all plays well together  

We tie up in slip or raft easily. The stern has a custom rail mount with integral chocks to match. 

A midships install as well would allow you an elegant spring/breast line rig. 

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Can you glue in a piece of thick wall glass tube?  For your whores pipe. 

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