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China's Superfast Bullet Train Shows Just How Far Behind The U.S. is

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9 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
High-speed rail in Australia
City of Rockhampton train (Sunshine railway station, Brisbane).jpg
The Electric Tilt Train, the fastest train in Australia by maximum test speed
Overview
Type High-speed rail
Status Dorma
Termini Brisbane
Melbourne (proposed)
Stations Sydney & Canberra (proposed)
Technical
Operating speed up to 350 km/h (220 mph). Current top service speed on Australian railways is 160 km/h (100 mp

High-speed rail in Australia has been under investigation since the early 1980s.[1][2] Every Federal Government since this time has investigated the feasibility of constructing high speed rail, but to date nothing has ever gone beyond the detailed planning stage. The most commonly suggested route is between Australia's two largest cities, Sydney and Melbourne, which is the world's second busiest air corridor.[3]

Yeah but that's Pusstralia!  WTF?  Those backward cunts are just out of the Stone Age, kangaroos hoping about the place shitting on footpaths.

We are talking about the mighty USA!  Worlds self appointed policeman, the Empire!

No HST's?  What's going on?

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5 hours ago, random said:

Yeah but that's Pusstralia!  WTF?  Those backward cunts are just out of the Stone Age, kangaroos hoping about the place shitting on footpaths.

We are talking about the mighty USA!  Worlds self appointed policeman, the Empire!

No HST's?  What's going on?

See my other post on the topic.   HST's are cool, but, almost passe'.  We need the next thing - tube cars, teleportation.  I wonder whether or not improved VR communications capabilities will result in a reduction of "people moving".  We'll still need freight, oranges don't grow in Montreal. 

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6 hours ago, random said:

Yeah but that's Pusstralia!  WTF?  Those backward cunts are just out of the Stone Age, kangaroos hoping about the place shitting on footpaths.

We are talking about the mighty USA!  Worlds self appointed policeman, the Empire!

No HST's?  What's going on?

 

What's going on is the mighty USA is still a great place, but there's a lot of fucked up shit here.  I don't remember the statistics exactly that I heard yesterday about poor folks, but I think it was 1 in 5 of total population lives in poverty and one-third of blacks.  Our medicine, while first class, can bankrupt one in a New York minute, if you are unfortunate enough to get an expensive illness, and not have the expensive insurance to pay for it.  And our infrastructure has been crumbling for decades, and our public education is 2nd world at best.  But we recently had massive tax cuts for the richest Americans, and the Corporations they control, so we do have that going for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

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15 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

What's going on is the mighty USA is still a great place, but there's a lot of fucked up shit here.  I don't remember the statistics exactly that I heard yesterday about poor folks, but I think it was 1 in 5 of total population lives in poverty and one-third of blacks.  Our medicine, while first class, can bankrupt one in a New York minute, if you are unfortunate enough to get an expensive illness, and not have the expensive insurance to pay for it.  And our infrastructure has been crumbling for decades, and our public education is 2nd world at best.  But we recently had massive tax cuts for the richest Americans, and the Corporations they control, so we do have that going for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Those poverty statistics are relative poverty.  That means, there will always be poverty in the US by definition.  But by UN definitions of world poverty, there is no poverty in the US.

Our public education is a product of government and teachers unions.  

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17 minutes ago, jzk said:

Those poverty statistics are relative poverty.  That means, there will always be poverty in the US by definition.  But by UN definitions of world poverty, there is no poverty in the US.

Our public education is a product of government and teachers unions.  

 

So you are okay with the mighty USA, policeman to the world, and beacon of Justice and Freedom, has one fifth of the population, and one third of all blacks living in poverty by our standards?  You cannot compare us to third world countries poverty levels................

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21 minutes ago, jzk said:

Those poverty statistics are relative poverty.  That means, there will always be poverty in the US by definition.  But by UN definitions of world poverty, there is no poverty in the US.

Our public education is a product of government and teachers unions.  

Government? Disjointed requirements?  Schools overburdened by the requirement to become dispensaries of social assistance w/no budget/staff?  Propensity to cut/constrain school budgets first when revenues are tight?  Yeah - if that's what you meant, I agree.   If your premise is that the teachers' unions encourage retention of unmotivated/poor performing individuals and the government condones that?  I'll suggest that you need to spend some time in a school, talking with teachers, because you are really outta touch with reality on that point. 

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4 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

So you are okay with the mighty USA, policeman to the world, and beacon of Justice and Freedom, has one fifth of the population, and one third of all blacks living in poverty by our standards?  You cannot compare us to third world countries poverty levels................

I am not "ok" with quite a bit of what the US is doing.  But let's at least be honest in evaluating the problem.  

Stop being the world's policeman.  End government programs that keep poor people poor.  Increase economic freedom. 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Government? Disjointed requirements?  Schools overburdened by the requirement to become dispensaries of social assistance w/no budget/staff?  Propensity to cut/constrain school budgets first when revenues are tight?  Yeah - if that's what you meant, I agree.   If your premise is that the teachers' unions encourage retention of unmotivated/poor performing individuals and the government condones that?  I'll suggest that you need to spend some time in a school, talking with teachers, because you are really outta touch with reality on that point. 

Teachers get paid based on seniority, not ability.  What does "talking to teachers" have to do with it?

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Teachers get paid based on seniority, not ability.  What does "talking to teachers" have to do with it?

How do you measure "ability"?

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Government? Disjointed requirements?  Schools overburdened by the requirement to become dispensaries of social assistance w/no budget/staff?  Propensity to cut/constrain school budgets first when revenues are tight?  Yeah - if that's what you meant, I agree.   If your premise is that the teachers' unions encourage retention of unmotivated/poor performing individuals and the government condones that?  I'll suggest that you need to spend some time in a school, talking with teachers, because you are really outta touch with reality on that point. 

I am sure that some very nice people built and designed the Trabant.  But that doesn't mean I want a Trabant educational system.  I want a Mercedes.

 

comment_7XUxmVfiohuyoI3MO8keyiyye61MzFfb

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

How do you measure "ability"?

Let the market do it.  

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Just now, jzk said:

Let the market do it.  

Got any specifics?  Or, do you always speak in vague and undefined terms.

You said "ability".  You should have a rationale for how it is to be measured.

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

Got any specifics?  Or, do you always speak in vague and undefined terms.

You said "ability".  You should have a rationale for how it is to be measured.

The free market is pretty fucking specific.  Parents will want to send their kids to the good schools.  The bad schools will go out of business.  The good schools will know how to determine the teacher's ability.

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Just now, jzk said:

The free market is pretty fucking specific.  Parents will want to send their kids to the good schools.  The bad schools will go out of business.  The good schools will know how to determine the teacher's ability.

So, you don't know what "ability" is and how to measure it.  But, good schools do.

Got it.

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How does Mercedes determine the "ability" if its engineers?

Who cares?  That is Mercedes problem.  

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

So, you don't know what "ability" is and how to measure it.  But, good schools do.

Got it.

Right.  I don't need to be an expert in education to know that the market would produce experts in education.  

See how that works?

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Just now, jzk said:

How does Mercedes determine the "ability" if its engineers?

Who cares?  That is Mercedes problem.  

Ah.  A variation on the old "widget" argument.

You are advocating schools adopt the same model as a manufacturer.  Got it.

Mercedes gets to pick its raw materials.  Schools, at least public schools, don't.

What do you propose we do with all those kids the "good schools" reject? 

I realize asking you to think beyond the soundbites you've memorized may be taxing.

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

Right.  I don't need to be an expert in education to know that the market would produce experts in education.  

See how that works?

It is clear you don't trust educators.  But, you do.

That's rather circular.

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6 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It is clear you don't trust educators.  But, you do.

That's rather circular.

I trust some but not others.  What were you saying about monolithic groups? 

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30 minutes ago, jzk said:

I am sure that some very nice people built and designed the Trabant.  But that doesn't mean I want a Trabant educational system.  I want a Mercedes.

 

comment_7XUxmVfiohuyoI3MO8keyiyye61MzFfb

The Trabant was what, a buck 2-50 out the door?  That 1988 300e was what, $40K out the door?  I'd rather drive the MB too - which one are you gonna pay for?    The schools problem is complex, and trying to pass it off as lazy teachers and government not forcing better performance is bunk.  

That aside, has nothing to do with my point, and your avoidance of it.  We have the requirement in this country to provide access to education for every kid, good student, bad student, economically stable, economic straits, "normal", behaviorally challenged - all of 'em.   For that reason - test score averages are an inappropriate measure of a school's "success".  The only tangentially related part of this relative to the OP is the attitude that we take towards public spending - you want the MB of educational outcomes?  You have to build the factory, train the engineers, develop the material supply chains, and then, after all that investment and buildup, can you start selling cars.   If you want to fund education like the Trabant factories, w/no quality control, no infrastructure improvements, LCD line workers?  You can't expect them to turn out a new AMG Hammer. 

 

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20 minutes ago, jzk said:

I trust some but not others.  What were you saying about monolithic groups? 

Your posts are overly simplistic, and you have little to no understanding of what is entailed in your plans.

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4 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The Trabant was what, a buck 2-50 out the door?  That 1988 300e was what, $40K out the door?  I'd rather drive the MB too - which one are you gonna pay for?    The schools problem is complex, and trying to pass it off as lazy teachers and government not forcing better performance is bunk.  

That aside, has nothing to do with my point, and your avoidance of it.  We have the requirement in this country to provide access to education for every kid, good student, bad student, economically stable, economic straits, "normal", behaviorally challenged - all of 'em.   For that reason - test score averages are an inappropriate measure of a school's "success".  The only tangentially related part of this relative to the OP is the attitude that we take towards public spending - you want the MB of educational outcomes?  You have to build the factory, train the engineers, develop the material supply chains, and then, after all that investment and buildup, can you start selling cars.   If you want to fund education like the Trabant factories, w/no quality control, no infrastructure improvements, LCD line workers?  You can't expect them to turn out a new AMG Hammer. 

 

Well there is the thing.  The market not only provides Bentleys, but also $449 65" 4k flat screen TVs.  For $150 you can buy a cell phone with more computing power than NASA had in 1969.

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Your posts are overly simplistic, and you have little to no understanding of what is entailed in your plans.

You haven't made a case for either of those things.  Meanwhile, all I ask is that you give the poor black family a choice in education like they have in Sweden.  You can still drive the Trabant if you choose. 

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Well there is the thing.  The market not only provides Bentleys, but also $449 65" 4k flat screen TVs.  For $150 you can buy a cell phone with more computing power than NASA had in 1969.

No - not really.  The market impacts the prices, and establishes the demand, but, engineering and investment in manufacturing capacity and efficiencies are what enables that to happen.  W/R/T public infrastructure - many projects that are beneficial are not, and never will be "profitable", but, that doesn't mean that there isn't a public benefit to be realized from those beyond mere profitability.  Education is one of those things, and for the poor families to have a "choice" - then investments are required to establish those choices, when what we have now is closer to only funding the Trabant factory. 

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lets see China get to the moon on one of those high-speed trains, then I'll be impressed. In the mean time i will get around the country by jumbo jet #scoreboard

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - not really.  The market impacts the prices, and establishes the demand, but, engineering and investment in manufacturing capacity and efficiencies are what enables that to happen.  W/R/T public infrastructure - many projects that are beneficial are not, and never will be "profitable", but, that doesn't mean that there isn't a public benefit to be realized from those beyond mere profitability.  Education is one of those things, and for the poor families to have a "choice" - then investments are required to establish those choices, when what we have now is closer to only funding the Trabant factory. 

You have made no case for what you are saying.  The private market is battling daily to provide poor people with the goods and services that they desire.  In a free society, those choices are plentiful.  In a government run society, those choices are few and crappy.  That is why our educational system sucks.  

Again, you can keep your government run Trabant school.  Just give the people vouchers, so they can choose.  You are free to send your kids to the Trabant school if you like.

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7 minutes ago, jzk said:

You have made no case for what you are saying.  The private market is battling daily to provide poor people with the goods and services that they desire.  In a free society, those choices are plentiful.  In a government run society, those choices are few and crappy.  That is why our educational system sucks.  

Again, you can keep your government run Trabant school.  Just give the people vouchers, so they can choose.  You are free to send your kids to the Trabant school if you like.

I understand and agree with many of your points - but, as it pertains to education?  You're fulla shit - and based upon your attempts to over-simplify the complexities of the issue, don't know enough to know what you don't.  It stinks to have to pay taxes to support the public schools - and pay parochial school tuition, but, that's what I did. 

The "market" won't fund education - education isn't a direct profit center.  If we want education to be successful, if we want ANYTHING to be successful, you need to to look at the real factors that impact the "thing", understand their complexities, and establish a plan that prioritizes and addresses the factors and inter-relationships. Trying to distill those complexities down to talking points simply ignores and discounts too many relevant factors, and the chosen approach will suffer as a result. 

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I understand and agree with many of your points - but, as it pertains to education?  You're fulla shit - and based upon your attempts to over-simplify the complexities of the issue, don't know enough to know what you don't.  It stinks to have to pay taxes to support the public schools - and pay parochial school tuition, but, that's what I did. 

The "market" won't fund education - education isn't a direct profit center.  If we want education to be successful, if we want ANYTHING to be successful, you need to to look at the real factors that impact the "thing", understand their complexities, and establish a plan that prioritizes and addresses the factors and inter-relationships. Trying to distill those complexities down to talking points simply ignores and discounts too many relevant factors, and the chosen approach will suffer as a result. 

"Full of shit" is not an argument.  The market is funding education in Sweden just fine.

In a free market, those complexities are handled automatically.  No one knows how to make a pencil.  Yet they are made.

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@jzk railing against public schools simply displays his ignorance. The public schools are generally quite good and in many areas represent the only available schools. 

Private schools are only able to produce a better product because the high performing private schools do not accept retards and disruptive hard to educate children.

We have decided a child has a RIGHT to an education.

We have decided a child is INCAPABLE of comprehending the fact his / her lack of cooperation and contribution  is self destructive.

( We educate kids whether they want it or not because we know they need that education) 

so... it is true  there are excellent schools filled with cherry picked students 

the fact is, the existence of those other  schools simply makes it more difficult for us, as a society, to educate the remainder.

but

we see that education as a right 

a poor kid deserves the same chance to be educated as the billionaire’s kid. 

A kid cannot “just choose with his voucher.”

a kid needs full support

we have decided to give that support with teachers, books, meals and even clothing 

we do that with public school dollars

private schools for the rich kids do not have to educate the  hard to educate

 

society has decided, we do

 

So mr JZK.... If you think our public schools are not doing their job... get off your lazy ass and start helping. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

"Full of shit" is not an argument.  The market is funding education in Sweden just fine.

In a free market, those complexities are handled automatically.  No one knows how to make a pencil.  Yet they are made.

Sweden's schools are funded by the government.  Please, tell me how to bridge the gap from that understanding to the utopian idea you're proffering? 

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2 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

@jzk railing against public schools simply displays his ignorance. The public schools are generally quite good and in many areas represent the only available schools. 

Private schools are only able to produce a better product because the high performing private schools do not accept retards and disruptive hard to educate children.

We have decided a child has a RIGHT to an education.

We have decided a child is INCAPABLE of comprehending the fact his / her lack of cooperation and contribution  is self destructive.

( We educate kids whether they want it or not because we know they need that education) 

so... it is true  there are excellent schools filled with cherry picked students 

the fact is, the existence of those other  schools simply makes it more difficult for us, as a society, to educate the remainder.

but

we see that education as a right 

a poor kid deserves the same chance to be educated as the billionaire’s kid. 

A kid cannot “just choose with his voucher.”

a kid needs full support

we have decided to give that support with teachers, books, meals and even clothing 

we do that with public school dollars

private schools for the rich kids do not have to educate the  hard to educate

 

society has decided, we do

 

So mr JZK.... If you think our public schools are not doing their job... get off your lazy ass and start helping. 

 

 

They are not doing their job due to the government.  Why do you think their are any private schools at all given that their competition is free?  Because free sucks so bad it is not even worth no money.

Parents choose with the vouchers.  Easy peasy..  

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sweden's schools are funded by the government.  Please, tell me how to bridge the gap from that understanding to the utopian idea you're proffering? 

Vouchers.  If we are going to have government funding, at least let the marketplace compete for that funding.

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Just now, jzk said:

They are not doing their job due to the government.  Why do you think their are any private schools at all given that their competition is free?  Because free sucks so bad it is not even worth no money.

Parents choose with the vouchers.  Easy peasy..  

You ignored my explanation and wrote nonsense.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

We have decided a child is INCAPABLE of comprehending the fact his / her lack of cooperation and contribution  is self destructive.

( We educate kids whether they want it or not because we know they need that education) 

IMHO - this is a recent change that warrants being turned back - as the kids who are willingly uncooperative/disruptive/combative consume an inordinate amount of time/resources, with absolutely no personal consequences.   I think that that lack of consequence emboldens and encourages this negative behavior, and that many of those kids would willingly adjust if forced to face negative consequences.  

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Vouchers.  If we are going to have government funding, at least let the marketplace compete for that funding.

No ... the funding is  for educating ALL the kids. 

A small percentage of the kids take up a HUGE percentage of those funds.

it is simple to educate kids like me who came from households with two college educated parents. I hardly cost the school system any dollars at all.

the kid from down the street whose illiterate family was on welfare cost way way way more to educate.

the voucher concept suggests each kid is allotted the same funding...

tgat conceotbis utter and complete nonsense 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, jzk said:

You haven't made a case for either of those things.  Meanwhile, all I ask is that you give the poor black family a choice in education like they have in Sweden.  You can still drive the Trabant if you choose. 

Go back and re-read Post #217.  Then, try to answer.

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Move to Sweden!! Please!!!

but..

if you are going to imitatevthe Swedes... you need to imitate their ENTURE system:

government health care... you for that this week??

prison systems that spend  most of  their funding on actual rehabilitation ?? 

You for  that this week??

 

But gere’s Tge biggie:: publicly funded transportation systems?? 

Sweden does that  big time.... 

arr you reversing everything you wrote in your posts about public transportation??

 

Sweden your ass!!!! 

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Go back and re-read Post #217.  Then, try to answer.

But.... this is post #201.... 

A64F20A6-8242-4160-B21B-13245D2B2D93.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Go back and re-read Post #217.  Then, try to answer.

You have made a case for nothing.  Do parents want their kids to be well educated? Then the market will provide all kinds of choices way better than your crappy public educational system.

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4 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Move to Sweden!! Please!!!

but..

if you are going to imitatevthe Swedes... you need to imitate their ENTURE system:

government health care... you for that this week??

prison systems that spend  most of  their funding on actual rehabilitation ?? 

You for  that this week??

 

But gere’s Tge biggie:: publicly funded transportation systems?? 

Sweden does that  big time.... 

arr you reversing everything you wrote in your posts about public transportation??

 

Sweden your ass!!!! 

What colleges did your parents attend?  Were they crappy too?

Citing an example of a success in Sweden automatically justifies its failures?  Pretty fucked up logic even for you.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Ah.  A variation on the old "widget" argument.

You are advocating schools adopt the same model as a manufacturer.  Got it.

Mercedes gets to pick its raw materials.  Schools, at least public schools, don't.

What do you propose we do with all those kids the "good schools" reject? 

I realize asking you to think beyond the soundbites you've memorized may be taxing.

You are not getting it.  The market will determine what model the schools will use.  Those that use successful models will succeed, and those that use unsuccessful ones will fail.  I don't need to write the business plan for any of them.  The market will do that.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

You have made a case for nothing.  Do parents want their kids to be well educated? Then the market will provide all kinds of choices way better than your crappy public educational system.

Simply writing “crappy” has no support. 

Cite how the system is “crappy”

 

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

How do you measure "ability"?

He has only one measure - for everything.

How much money you make.

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21 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

You ignored my explanation and wrote nonsense.

That's how he rolls.

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

What colleges did your parents attend?  Were they crappy too?

Citing an example of a success in Sweden automatically justifies its failures?  Pretty fucked up logic even for you.

My parents each attended public schools and universities. By all

measures those schools and universities were quite good inntge thirties and forties and the public university they each attended for  their  last two years is still considered to be a fine institution. 

With respect to Swedish schools and their voucher system, itnis all part of the Swedish society. 

Your attempt to compare one tiny part of Swedish society to American society as a cherry pick is an invalid argument.

Swedish public transportation, health care, lack of massive defense spending, and a myriad of other government programs make it possible for their schools to do different things than American schools 

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@JZK SAYS:

in a much more socialistic society vouchers might work. 

Examples of JZK’s point: 

1. If all children gad public health care, the public schools wouid be able to better focus on educating those children

2. If we worked to lower prison populations and nearly eliminated recidivism, we wouid have fewer difficult to educate children whose parents are incarcerated. 

 

JZK says: sweden does  a lot of things differently than the USA... perhaps we should investigate how being more socialistic could help the USA 

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6 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

My parents each attended public schools and universities. By all

measures those schools and universities were quite good inntge thirties and forties and the public university they each attended for  their  last two years is still considered to be a fine institution. 

With respect to Swedish schools and their voucher system, itnis all part of the Swedish society. 

Your attempt to compare one tiny part of Swedish society to American society as a cherry pick is an invalid argument.

Swedish public transportation, health care, lack of massive defense spending, and a myriad of other government programs make it possible for their schools to do different things than American schools 

You have made no case why a voucher system would not work in the US.

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Just now, jzk said:

You have made no case why a voucher system would not work in the US.

You have not read my posts. 

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1 minute ago, Gouvernail said:

@JZK SAYS:

in a much more socialistic society vouchers might work. 

Examples of JZK’s point: 

1. If all children gad public health care, the public schools wouid be able to better focus on educating those children

2. If we worked to lower prison populations and nearly eliminated recidivism, we wouid have fewer difficult to educate children whose parents are incarcerated. 

 

JZK says: sweden does  a lot of things differently than the USA... perhaps we should investigate how being more socialistic could help the USA 

Sweden ranks higher than the US in economic freedom.  

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The cool thing is that if we tried a voucher system, we would find out how well the voucher schools compare to the government schools.

That is why the teachers union advocates don't want to try the voucher schools.

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2 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

You have not read my posts. 

You have not made a case for anything.

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10 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

With respect to Swedish schools and their voucher system, itnis all part of the Swedish society. 

 

Are you talking about the high level of racism in Sweden?

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36 minutes ago, jzk said:

 

Parents choose with the vouchers.  Easy peasy..  

As I explained above....

the most expensive  kids can’t choose. 

Many do not have parents to do that choosing

the school system money is not spent equally on each kid.

there is  no “per kid cost” upon which to base a voucher. 

 

As i explained above... kids from functional family units don’t cost much to educate

in fact.... kids from families like

mine where my mother provided many hours of volunteer assistance to the school, may actually CONTRIBUTE, to the cost of educating the others. 

 

the entire overly simplistic  concept of vouchers in the USA  is ludicrous 

 

it is promoted  by elitists who do not wish to actually educate the masses and eatennuo by fools who have not an inkling of how our society operates and how our school funds are spent.

 

 

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my apologies for wasting column space in this thread attempting to communicate with the troll. 

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1 minute ago, Gouvernail said:

As I explained above....

the most expensive  kids can’t choose. 

Many do not have parents to do that choosing

the school system money is not spent equally on each kid.

there is  no “per kid cost” upon which to base a voucher. 

 

As i explained above... kids from functional family units don’t cost much to educate

in fact.... kids from families like

mine where my mother provided many hours of volunteer assistance to the school, may actually CONTRIBUTE, to the cost of educating the others. 

 

the entire overly simplistic  concept of vouchers in the USA  is ludicrous 

 

it is promoted  by elitists who do not wish to actually educate the masses and eatennuo by fools who have not an inkling of how our society operates and how our school funds are spent.

 

 

Still you have made no case for any of that.  The free market will do just fine competing for the "average" cost per kid.  

You have had your chance to provide government run education, and you have failed.

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2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Ah.  A variation on the old "widget" argument.

You are advocating schools adopt the same model as a manufacturer.  Got it.

Mercedes gets to pick its raw materials.  Schools, at least public schools, don't.

What do you propose we do with all those kids the "good schools" reject? 

I realize asking you to think beyond the soundbites you've memorized may be taxing.

 

As of today, neither Fox News, nor Alex Jones have addressed this, or answered this question, so how could you possibly presume that jzk could give you a cogent answer?

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Just now, billy backstay said:

 

As of today, neither Fox News, nor Alex Jones have addressed this, or answered this question, so how could you possibly presume that jzk could give you a cogent answer?

Are you suggesting that the voucher schools will not want the money from the below average students?

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41 minutes ago, jzk said:
42 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

As of today, neither Fox News, nor Alex Jones have addressed this, or answered this question, so how could you possibly presume that jzk could give you a cogent answer?

Are you suggesting that the voucher schools will not want the money from the below average students?

Yes.

That way, their scholastic average will be higher and they can charge more.

Just another way to game the system in favor of the wealthy.

-DSK

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

my apologies for wasting column space in this thread attempting to communicate with the troll. 

Never stop learning. :D

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1 hour ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

image.png.8d751c929e1656f70a2ec9965ac6b1f5.png

Proving that the US has really fallen off the transportation curve.  Finland, similarly low density and urban, reasonably high vehicle ownership and highly evolved rail system.  Even Russia, with 1/4 the density and lower urbanity has two orders of magnitude more high speed rail.

 

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3 hours ago, jzk said:
5 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Ah.  A variation on the old "widget" argument.

You are advocating schools adopt the same model as a manufacturer.  Got it.

Mercedes gets to pick its raw materials.  Schools, at least public schools, don't.

What do you propose we do with all those kids the "good schools" reject? 

I realize asking you to think beyond the soundbites you've memorized may be taxing.

You are not getting it.  The market will determine what model the schools will use.  Those that use successful models will succeed, and those that use unsuccessful ones will fail.  I don't need to write the business plan for any of them.  The market will do that.

You completely avoided answering the question.  Why?  Afraid to show you couldn't buy a clue if I loaned you $20?

Once all schools can "pick", there will be some who aren't "picked".

 

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The "market" won't fund education - education isn't a direct profit center. 

tell that to the large state universities that are raking it in right now, massive revenues.

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57 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You completely avoided answering the question.  Why?  Afraid to show you couldn't buy a clue if I loaned you $20?

Once all schools can "pick", there will be some who aren't "picked".

 

Right. No one in the market will want that voucher money.  

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes.

That way, their scholastic average will be higher and they can charge more.

Just another way to game the system in favor of the wealthy.

-DSK

Some school will specialize in improving the education of poor students and rake in  all of that coin.  

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7 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

See my other post on the topic.   HST's are cool, but, almost passe'.  We need the next thing - tube cars, teleportation.  I wonder whether or not improved VR communications capabilities will result in a reduction of "people moving".  We'll still need freight, oranges don't grow in Montreal. 

There are no HSTs in the USA because the Ford and GM etc own the government.  HSTs do not sell cars.

Meanwhile, countries with governments less corrupt, build great infrastructure for their citizens.

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Just now, jzk said:

Some school will specialize in improving the education of poor students and rake in  all of that coin.  

And that's what it is about right?  Not about students.

Capitalism has 'commodified' everything, everything and everyone can be bought.  Even politicians.

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2 minutes ago, random said:

And that's what it is about right?  Not about students.

Capitalism has 'commodified' everything, everything and everyone can be bought.  Even politicians.

You are finally getting it.  Schools will fight with each other to get that coin by seeing who can provide the better education. 

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Just now, jzk said:

You are finally getting it.  Schools will fight with each other to get that coin by seeing good who can provide the better education. 

No, they will fight each other for the coin. 

When I did my first university degree here in Australia, it was free.  If you were not good enough you failed.  Now each course if expensive, but everyone passes eventually, even if it cost them more for remedial work.  Then they leave in horrible debt.

  • Free education = high quality graduates in no debt
  • Capitalist education = low quality graduates in horrible debt

Which one do you think is better for the country they live in?

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1 minute ago, random said:

No, they will fight each other for the coin. 

When I did my first university degree here in Australia, it was free.  If you were not good enough you failed.  Now each course if expensive, but everyone passes eventually, even if it cost them more for remedial work.  Then they leave in horrible debt.

  • Free education = high quality graduates in no debt
  • Capitalist education = low quality graduates in horrible debt

Which one do you think is better for the country they live in?

Compared to capitalism, the state can't produce high quality anything. 

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Compared to capitalism, the state can't produce high quality anything. 

How about 15,000 miles of high speed trains (china) vs zero (USA)?

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JZK is THE example of what can be done with propaganda.

He's bought in, completely.  You can tell it's propaganda as he doesn't have any actual arguments - just fluff.  Nothing of substance, no data, nada.

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1 minute ago, random said:

How about 15,000 miles of high speed trains (china) vs zero (USA)?

Nothing you can say will sway a True Believer.

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1 minute ago, random said:

How about 15,000 miles of high speed trains (china) vs zero (USA)?

At what cost? 

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

JZK is THE example of what can be done with propaganda.

He's bought in, completely.  You can tell it's propaganda as he doesn't have any actual arguments - just fluff.  Nothing of substance, no data, nada.

Is that supposed to be an argument for something? 

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Just now, jzk said:

At what cost? 

part of an increase in wealth never before seen on the planet. And it wasn't capitalism that did it.

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Just now, Raz'r said:

part of an increase in wealth never before seen on the planet. And it wasn't capitalism that did it.

If not capitalism, then what? 

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:

If not capitalism, then what? 

Technology, a commitment to public education, increases in labor productivity, government-sponsored research (DARPA, NIH, Internet, nuclear physics research, etc.), transportation networks, Utility infrastructure (the TVA, Grand Coulee Dam, Hoover Dam, etc.)  That sort of thing.  

Capitalism is just a money-management system with no inherent creativity.  It is as frequently as risk-averse as it is risk-supportive.  

 

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22 minutes ago, random said:

How about 15,000 miles of high speed trains (china) vs zero (USA)?

Ouch

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Technology, a commitment to public education, increases in labor productivity, government-sponsored research (DARPA, NIH, Internet, nuclear physics research, etc.), transportation networks, Utility infrastructure (the TVA, Grand Coulee Dam, Hoover Dam, etc.)  That sort of thing.  

Capitalism is just a money-management system with no inherent creativity.  It is as frequently as risk-averse as it is risk-supportive.  

 

If government spends trillions of dollars it is bound to trip over a few ideas.  But that hardly makes it efficient and I Innovative. 

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