Sign in to follow this  
badlatitude

China's Superfast Bullet Train Shows Just How Far Behind The U.S. is

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Question for @jzk 

You seem to believe you know how to allocate school funds 

or

At the very least, you have repeatedly suggested those doing it are not doing so wisely.

What credentials do  you have which should impress us that you are in fact more competent than the current degrees professionals who are the current staff of our school systems.??

 

 

Do you have any degrees or even credit hours pertaining to  edcational systems and their administration?? 

Do you have a degree in education?

did you even take any courses in education? 

Do you have a sociology degree? Educational psychology? 

Did you attend a school such as the LBJ School of Public Management? 

What is your expertise?? 

 

He stayed at a Holiday Inn Express when he went to listen to his God Uncle Milty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jzk said:

You simply don't get it.  This is all stuff that the private market will figure out.  50" flat screet tvs used to cost $10,000.  Now they cost $300.  Through competition, different players will innovate education and compete to give that problem child the very best education possible.  They will hire the experts they need that have the necessary degrees and training.  That is how it works.

By your reasoning, making a cell phone would be impossible.  Yet it is done.  Do you know how?  Does it matter? 

Nice writing. Now... try to focus on what  you quoted and respond to it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Question for @jzk 

You seem to believe you know how to allocate school funds 

or

At the very least, you have repeatedly suggested those doing it are not doing so wisely.

What credentials do  you have which should impress us that you are in fact more competent than the current degrees professionals who are the current staff of our school systems.??

 

 

Do you have any degrees or even credit hours pertaining to  edcational systems and their administration?? 

Do you have a degree in education?

did you even take any courses in education? 

Do you have a sociology degree? Educational psychology? 

Did you attend a school such as the LBJ School of Public Management? 

What is your expertise?? 

 

Here ya go @jzk

try actually reading my post, then, instead of going off on an irrelevent tangent, respond to the questions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Here ya go @jzk

try actually reading my post, then, instead of going off on an irrelevent tangent, respond to the questions. 

Your questions are irrelevant.  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys still entertaining the oblivious-to-history idiot? The rube that doesn’t even understand one of THE signature achievements of the American Experiment is (was) universal education?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Raz'r said:

You guys still entertaining the oblivious-to-history idiot? The rube that doesn’t even understand one of THE signature achievements of the American Experiment is (was) universal education?

I thought you were going to tell us how China isn't using capitalism to create wealth.  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jzk said:

I thought you were going to tell us how China isn't using capitalism to create wealth.  

China is capitalist? Is that your definition  of capitalism now?  If so, then words and definitions really don’t matter and conversing with you is worse than a waste of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the economics, China and the States aren't as far apart as one might think.

A small number of connected, mega rich people gathering the wealth of the country to themselves with the full knowledge and cooperation of the government.

If one is capitalism, how can the other not be?

The only significant difference is that China has already achieved the level of authoritarianism that Trump and the Republicans are working towards.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

China is capitalist? Is that your definition  of capitalism now?  If so, then words and definitions really don’t matter and conversing with you is worse than a waste of time.

What do you think it is?  Is it private ownership of factories that produce shit that they sell?  Do you think your Chinese products are made by the Chinese government?  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jzk said:

What do you think it is?  Is it private ownership of factories that produce shit that they sell?  Do you think your Chinese products are made by the Chinese government?  

Who owns the Chinese banks and the major Chinese companies? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Raz'r said:

Who owns the Chinese banks and the major Chinese companies? 

Let's say you buy a Lewmar anchor for your boat.  Is it made in a Chinese company owned by the Chinese government, or by some Chinese guy?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jzk said:

Let's say you buy a Lewmar anchor for your boat.  Is it made in a Chinese company owned by the Chinese government, or by some Chinese guy?

Dance motherfucker. Change the definitions. A few comments ago it was public companies. Now it’s some labor guy. Hint: capitalism is private ownership of productive assets.

heres your Chinese miracle. It ain’t capitalism. 

http://fortune.com/2015/07/22/china-global-500-government-owned/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably the best description I’ve seen of the Chinese system is a command socialist economy practicing good old British mercantilism. Except these definitions aren’t great, as the system is uniquely chinese. Central control of that which matters, letting the minions play with private ownership on the margins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Dance motherfucker. Change the definitions. A few comments ago it was public companies. Now it’s some labor guy. Hint: capitalism is private ownership of productive assets.

heres your Chinese miracle. It ain’t capitalism. 

http://fortune.com/2015/07/22/china-global-500-government-owned/

Yes you clown.  When you buy shit from China, most likely it is a privately owned company.   Sure there are plenty of state owned companies, but they don't trade much with the rest of the word, as your article states.  No one would argue that China is "pure" capitalist or anywhere near it.  Just that they have used capitalism to become rich.  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Probably the best description I’ve seen of the Chinese system is a command socialist economy practicing good old British mercantilism. Except these definitions aren’t great, as the system is uniquely chinese. Central control of that which matters, letting the minions play with private ownership on the margins.

Not a horrible way to describe it.  And what do you think his happening to those "minions?"  Is it that there is a new millionaire every minute in China?  Or every second.  It is hard to keep track.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, jzk said:

Yes you clown.  When you buy shit from China, most likely it is a privately owned company.   Sure there are plenty of state owned companies, but they don't trade much with the rest of the word, as your article states.  No one would argue that China is "pure" capitalist or anywhere near it.  Just that they have used capitalism to become rich.  

So, they "use" capitalism but they're not capitalist?

Where did you get the info that "when you buy shit from China, most likely it is a privately owned company" or what you probably meant to say, manufactured by a privately owned company?

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, they "use" capitalism but they're not capitalist?

Where did you get the info that "when you buy shit from China, most likely it is a privately owned company" or what you probably meant to say, manufactured by a privately owned company?

-DSK

Even the US is not a "capitalist" country.  It is a mixed economy.  China has allowed just a little bit of capitalism, and it is making them rich.

Go on Alibaba.com and look at all of the companies that want to sell you shit.  You think they are owned by the Chinese government?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jzk said:

Even the US is not a "capitalist" country.  It is a mixed economy.  China has allowed just a little bit of capitalism, and it is making them rich.

Go on Alibaba.com and look at all of the companies that want to sell you shit.  You think they are owned by the Chinese government?

The US is more capitalist than China, so why is China getting richer faster?

As for who owns companies selling shit on the internet, your wild guesses are not good evidence.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The US is more capitalist than China, so why is China getting richer faster?

As for who owns companies selling shit on the internet, your wild guesses are not good evidence.

-DSK

Hong Kong is more capitalist than is the US, and its GDP per capita is higher.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, jzk said:

Even the US is not a "capitalist" country.  It is a mixed economy.  China has allowed just a little bit of capitalism, and it is making them rich.

Go on Alibaba.com and look at all of the companies that want to sell you shit.  You think they are owned by the Chinese government?

China is allowing a bit of capitalism to keep the pressure cooker from blowing. The rest of your posts are worthy of Flailing Malarkey. No intellectual depth, just bluster and noise when your precious fundamentalist beliefs are challenged. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Raz'r said:

China is allowing a bit of capitalism to keep the pressure cooker from blowing. The rest of your posts are worthy of Flailing Malarkey. No intellectual depth, just bluster and noise when your precious fundamentalist beliefs are challenged. 

That is not an argument.  It is really just nothing.  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jzk said:

Even the US is not a "capitalist" country. 

200.gif

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jzk said:

Hong Kong is more capitalist than is the US, and its GDP per capita is higher.

You aren't really comparing Hong Kong and the US, are you?

Hong Kong is similar in size to Rhode Island (1064 vs 1045 mi^2) and has a population of roughly 7 million, while the US population is more than 300 million.

Yeah, I can see why you feel the two should be compared.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You aren't really comparing Hong Kong and the US, are you?

Hong Kong is similar in size to Rhode Island (1064 vs 1045 mi^2) and has a population of roughly 7 million, while the US population is more than 300 million.

Yeah, I can see why you feel the two should be compared.

Comparing it how?  If 70 years ago, Hong Kong was a poor fishing village, and it opened itself up to almost 100% capitalism, and became as rich as you, it is certainly worth mentioning.  And with no real natural resources.  

Remember that size thing the next time the Scandinavian countries get cited as model societies.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jzk said:

Comparing it how?  If 70 years ago, Hong Kong was a poor fishing village, and it opened itself up to almost 100% capitalism, and became as rich as you, it is certainly worth mentioning.  And with no real natural resources.  

Remember that size thing the next time the Scandinavian countries get cited as model societies.

Why are you asking me "how"?  You made the initial comparison.

"Hong Kong is more capitalist than is the US, and its GDP per capita is higher." (Post #319)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bus Driver said:

Why are you asking me "how"?  You made the initial comparison.

Read the post. I never compared the size of it or the population.  Just that capitalism made those people rich.  And, China is trying to catch up.  Interesting that China is the one with all the natural resources but really the very same people.

So now it is your burden to explain how those differences matter in this conversation, or are they just something for you to throw against the wall and hope it sticks?  Capitalism works fine in groups of 7 million people, but can't work in larger groups?  What if we divided the people, let's say into 50 groups?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, jzk said:

Read the post. I never compared the size of it or the population.  Just that capitalism made those people rich.  And, China is trying to catch up.  Interesting that China is the one with all the natural resources but really the very same people.

So now it is your burden to explain how those differences matter in this conversation, or are they just something for you to throw against the wall and hope it sticks?  Capitalism works fine in groups of 7 million people, but can't work in larger groups?  What if we divided the people, let's say into 50 groups?

I have no "burden".  You made a comparison and I asked if you really saw the two as comparable.

Nice try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:
10 hours ago, jzk said:

Hong Kong is more capitalist than is the US, and its GDP per capita is higher.

You aren't really comparing Hong Kong and the US, are you?

Hong Kong is similar in size to Rhode Island (1064 vs 1045 mi^2) and has a population of roughly 7 million, while the US population is more than 300 million.

Yeah, I can see why you feel the two should be compared.

No, he's trying to draw attention away from his stupidity in claiming that capitalism is so fabulous because China which is not capitalist (and not the same thing as Hong Kong, JZK did you know this?) is making more millionaires per minute than the US which -is- capitalist.

Or something

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

No, he's trying to draw attention away from his stupidity in claiming that capitalism is so fabulous because China which is not capitalist (and not the same thing as Hong Kong, JZK did you know this?) is making more millionaires per minute than the US which -is- capitalist.

Or something

-DSK

Are you lying again?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Are you lying again?

Not at all.... see exchange below.......

 

10 hours ago, jzk said:
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The US is more capitalist than China, so why is China getting richer faster?

As for who owns companies selling shit on the internet, your wild guesses are not good evidence.

-DSK

Hong Kong is more capitalist than is the US, and its GDP per capita is higher.

 

See, I asked about China which was the country under discussion, and you switched to Hong Kong.

Do try to pay attention, please

And also, if you have anything other than wild guesses as to the ownership of Chinese companies selling shit on the internet, we'd still like to see it.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not at all.... see exchange below.......

 

 

See, I asked about China which was the country under discussion, and you switched to Hong Kong.

Do try to pay attention, please

And also, if you have anything other than wild guesses as to the ownership of Chinese companies selling shit on the internet, we'd still like to see it.

-DSK

And, he wants to label others as flinging shit against the wall in the hope that it will stick.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

And, he wants to label others as flinging shit against the wall in the hope that it will stick.....

The ironic thing is, I am actually very serious about this capitalism thing. It really can work very well not just as a macroeconomic system but for the majority of individuals. I am nobody special, just a blue collar worker who always liked to read and ended learning a lot; also saved a pretty good bit of money starting in the service, and invested it in....... hang on..... corporations making goods and delivering services for profit, and since they used -my- "capital" ( a better grass roots term might be "seed money") they give me a share of the profits. Now I am no longer a blue-collar worker, I'm a retired engineer with time to relax and become a sailing coach. Life.... and the capitalist system..... is good (when properly applied).

So, JZK's one-sentence epiphanies on the glories of capitalism are not just stupid mangling of what should be good sense, they are personally offensive to me because I not only "believe" in the right kind of capitalism, I've seen it work.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

The ironic thing is, I am actually very serious about this capitalism thing. It really can work very well not just as a macroeconomic system but for the majority of individuals. I am nobody special, just a blue collar worker who always liked to read and ended learning a lot; also saved a pretty good bit of money starting in the service, and invested it in....... hang on..... corporations making goods and delivering services for profit, and since they used -my- "capital" ( a better grass roots term might be "seed money") they give me a share of the profits. Now I am no longer a blue-collar worker, I'm a retired engineer with time to relax and become a sailing coach. Life.... and the capitalist system..... is good (when properly applied).

So, JZK's one-sentence epiphanies on the glories of capitalism are not just stupid mangling of what should be good sense, they are personally offensive to me because I not only "believe" in the right kind of capitalism, I've seen it work.

-DSK

jzk has memorized just enough buzz words and catch phrases to get himself into a conversation.  But, it all falls apart when he has to keep blurting out the same crap when others point out his deficiencies in knowledge and logic.

A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The ironic thing is, I am actually very serious about this capitalism thing. It really can work very well not just as a macroeconomic system but for the majority of individuals. I am nobody special, just a blue collar worker who always liked to read and ended learning a lot; also saved a pretty good bit of money starting in the service, and invested it in....... hang on..... corporations making goods and delivering services for profit, and since they used -my- "capital" ( a better grass roots term might be "seed money") they give me a share of the profits. Now I am no longer a blue-collar worker, I'm a retired engineer with time to relax and become a sailing coach. Life.... and the capitalist system..... is good (when properly applied).

So, JZK's one-sentence epiphanies on the glories of capitalism are not just stupid mangling of what should be good sense, they are personally offensive to me because I not only "believe" in the right kind of capitalism, I've seen it work.

-DSK

You and me both. I think that’s changed, starting awhile back, maybe S&L crisis, on privatizing profits but socializing losses. The US govt is now picking the winners in major sectors. The Trumpians cheer this on calling for tariffs and one-off interventions like ZTE. Ain’t nothing capitalist about that shit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, JZK's one-sentence epiphanies on the glories of capitalism are not just stupid mangling of what should be good sense, they are personally offensive to me because I not only "believe" in the right kind of capitalism, I've seen it work.

Our kind is unlike China's kind when it comes to eminent domain and private property.

Our railways aren't built for high speed and making new ones first requires a right of way in which to build it.

This is why the "why can't we be like China and just build trains" thing is offensive to me: I don't want us to be like China when it comes to private property rights. The way we are is messy and probably precludes high speed rail, but is still better IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

See, I asked about China which was the country under discussion, and you switched to Hong Kong.

Isn't attempting to distinguish the two nearly as offensive as a picture of Winnie the Pooh to the Chinese government? I'm pretty sure they think Hong Kong is part of China.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

....     ...    ...

This is why the "why can't we be like China and just build trains" thing is offensive to me .....   ....

 

Well, nobody said that, so you can relax

 

1 minute ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Isn't attempting to distinguish the two nearly as offensive as a picture of Winnie the Pooh to the Chinese government? I'm pretty sure they think Hong Kong is part of China.

Is "part of China" the same thing as "China"?

I'm pretty sure that if you insisted on calling the United States "Idaho" and justified it by saying "Idaho is part of the US!" that most people would think you're both stupid and a fruitcake.

-DSK

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not at all.... see exchange below.......

 

 

See, I asked about China which was the country under discussion, and you switched to Hong Kong.

Do try to pay attention, please

And also, if you have anything other than wild guesses as to the ownership of Chinese companies selling shit on the internet, we'd still like to see it.

-DSK

I am sorry that you have limited knowledge about the ownership structure of companies in China.  There are a great deal of them that are privately owned, and there are many many Chinese people getting rich over it.  Not only that, the common person in China is being given opportunities.  A whole middle class is being created.  

And yes, I do business in China, with privately owned companies.

Hong Kong is part of China.  But before becoming so, it was very capitalist.  More capitalist than the US has been since the 1920s.  Pretty much just as capitalist as Sweden was from 1850 to 1950.  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

jzk has memorized just enough buzz words and catch phrases to get himself into a conversation.  But, it all falls apart when he has to keep blurting out the same crap when others point out his deficiencies in knowledge and logic.

A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous.

Which such "deficiencies" have you pointed out?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not at all.... see exchange below.......

 

 

See, I asked about China which was the country under discussion, and you switched to Hong Kong.

Do try to pay attention, please

And also, if you have anything other than wild guesses as to the ownership of Chinese companies selling shit on the internet, we'd still like to see it.

-DSK

Here is some data on Chinese privately owned firms vs. state owned firms.  But you can probably use google also:

http://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/china’s-economy-state-versus-private

You can see, by any measure, there are a huge number of privately owned businesses in China, and they account for most of its growth.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

jzk has memorized just enough buzz words and catch phrases to get himself into a conversation.  But, it all falls apart when he has to keep blurting out the same crap when others point out his deficiencies in knowledge and logic.

A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous.

JerKZ's understanding of economic systems extends as far as "Unrestrained Capitalism - Good, Everything Else - Bad".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, jzk said:

Here is some data on Chinese privately owned firms vs. state owned firms.  But you can probably use google also:

http://www.australiachinarelations.org/content/china’s-economy-state-versus-private

You can see, by any measure, there are a huge number of privately owned businesses in China, and they account for most of its growth.

If they are "capitalized" ie get their seed money from, state-owned banks then that isn't really CAPITALISM as most people (or perhaps to be more precise, "those people who actually know something about it") define the word.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

If they are "capitalized" ie get their seed money from, state-owned banks then that isn't really CAPITALISM as most people (or perhaps to be more precise, "those people who actually know something about it") define the word.

-DSK

If you think I am trying to say that China is the pinnacle example of pure capitalism, I am not.  But they are using some amount of capitalism to get rich.  Maybe even 50% ish.  But that is not important.  Most Chinese businesses are just self employed people that have no "seed money."  They have private ownership and are "trading" on the global marketplace.  That is making them rich.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jzk said:

If you think I am trying to say that China is the pinnacle example of pure capitalism, I am not.  But they are using some amount of capitalism to get rich.  Maybe even 50% ish.  But that is not important.  Most Chinese businesses are just self employed people that have no "seed money."  They have private ownership and are "trading" on the global marketplace.  That is making them rich.

Ah so, now you're digging into a little relevant details

Is China getting richer faster than the US?

Is China -more- capitalist than the US? What are some of the differences (other than a much much higher level of centralized gov't control)?

BTW your bolded statement above is utter nonsense, out of Maoist fantasy rather than reality (hint: Mao's "Great Leap Forward"). Even a simple vegatable farmer needs capital (hint: "40 acres and a mule"). But I can see why you like this delusion, since you favor the "I built it all myself" narrative of mega-successful businessmen.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Well, nobody said that, so you can relax

 

Is "part of China" the same thing as "China"?

I'm pretty sure that if you insisted on calling the United States "Idaho" and justified it by saying "Idaho is part of the US!" that most people would think you're both stupid and a fruitcake.

-DSK

Well, maybe a better analogy is substituting "Puerto Rico" or "Marshall Islands"  - but yep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:
1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

....     ...    ...

This is why the "why can't we be like China and just build trains" thing is offensive to me .....   ....

 

Well, nobody said that, so you can relax

Not in exactly those words, but that does seem to be the point of this post and the thread it started.

On 5/12/2018 at 2:30 AM, badlatitude said:

5af54f56ab624824008b4844-960-720.jpg

China's bullet train is a startling example of how far behind US infrastructure has become. Shutterstock

 

 

  • China has the largest high-speed railway in the world, with 15,500 miles of track and most major cities covered by the network.
  • I recently took China's fastest "G" train from Beijing to the northwestern city of Xi'an, which cuts an 11-hour journey — roughly the distance between New York and Chicago — to 4.5 hours.
  • I found the experience delightful, with relatively cheap tickets, painless security, comfortable seats, air-conditioned cabins, and plenty of legroom.
  • It left me thinking about how far behind US infrastructure has become, when most comparable journeys still require expensive and tiring air travel.
 

Traveling to China can often feel like visiting the future. The cities stretch out for what seems like forever, while new skyscrapers, bridges, and futuristically designed landmarks spring up every year.

Nowhere is this feeling more apparent than when you encounter China's high-speed railway network. At 15,500 miles, the country's "bullet train" is the world's largest.

And it's getting larger.

The China Railway Corp., the country's government-owned train operator, is getting close to finishing the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link, a high-speed rail line spanning more than 80 miles. And the country's plan is to create an extended network that covers 24,000 miles and connects all cities with a population greater than 500,000.

Currently, there are over 100 cities in China with a population greater than 1 million, a figure projected to grow to 221 cities by 2025.

The practical result of this is that you can pretty much travel in anywhere in China via high-speed rail. It's usually comparable in speed to air travel (once you factor in security lines and check-in) and far more convenient, as I found on a recent trip to China.

I had made plans to travel from Beijing to Xi'an, the capital of northwestern Shaanxi province and the imperial capital of China for centuries.

The distance between the two cities is around 746 miles, making it slightly more than two hours by plane, 11 hours by car, and anywhere between 11.5 hours and 17.5 hours on a regular train.

On China's top-of-the-line "bullet train," the journey takes 4.5 hours.

If I wanted to travel a comparable distance in the US by train — at 712 miles, New York to Chicago is the closest — it would take 22 hours, with a transfer in Washington, DC. And that's with traveling on Amtrak's Acela Express, currently the fastest train in the US with a speed up to 214 km/h (150 mph).

Traveling on one of China's fastest bullet trains is an entirely different experience:

Much more at the link: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-bullet-train-speed-map-photos-tour-2018-5

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah so, now you're digging into a little relevant details

Is China getting richer faster than the US?

Is China -more- capitalist than the US? What are some of the differences (other than a much much higher level of centralized gov't control)?

BTW your bolded statement above is utter nonsense, out of Maoist fantasy rather than reality (hint: Mao's "Great Leap Forward"). Even a simple vegatable farmer needs capital (hint: "40 acres and a mule"). But I can see why you like this delusion, since you favor the "I built it all myself" narrative of mega-successful businessmen.

-DSK

China is taking less time to develop than the US did.  They are doing in 30 years what we did in 200.  Of course, they have our technology, so that isn't so surprising.

Do you have some evidence that all of these one man shop Chinese businesses got startup capital from some centrally owned Chinese bank?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jzk said:

China is taking less time to develop than the US did.  They are doing in 30 years what we did in 200.  Of course, they have our technology, so that isn't so surprising.

Do you have some evidence that all of these one man shop Chinese businesses got startup capital from some centrally owned Chinese bank?

Hey sunshine, time to wake up..... the only bank in China is owned by the gov't. They have a bunch of different branches so I can see why you're confused

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Hey sunshine, time to wake up..... the only bank in China is owned by the gov't. They have a bunch of different branches so I can see why you're confused

-DSK

Where does that contradict what I said?  Now you are just being an asshole.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey sunshine, time to wake up..... the only bank in China is owned by the gov't. They have a bunch of different branches so I can see why you're confused

-DSK

Here is a list of some of the banks in China, "sunshine."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_China

 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jzk said:

Where does that contradict what I said?  Now you are just being an asshole.

Why, because you are so easily proven wrong, and so persistent in repeating your nonsense, that makes me an asshole?

Let me repeat the two basic questions you obviously would prefer to continue dodging:

27 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Is China getting richer faster than the US?

Is China -more- capitalist than the US? What are some of the differences (other than a much much higher level of centralized gov't control)?

....

 

You've asserted that China -is- getting richer faster, although your statement

8 minutes ago, jzk said:

...    ...    ... China is taking less time to develop than the US did.  They are doing in 30 years what we did in 200.  Of course, they have our technology, so that isn't so surprising.  ...     ...     ...

is rather silly. They are not starting from anywhere near the level of industrialization that the US had in 1776 (or 1790 or whatever you prefer). Not only have they simply had our old factories moved there, they already had a high level of development.... no bullet trains but plenty of railroads, steel works, etc etc.

I don't disagree that China is getting richer faster, however. They probably are.

And they have a much more centralized finance system, and much more centralized and authoritarian control over business. Does that strengthen your argument that "greater economic freedom" leads to greater, faster, wealth creation?

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Why, because you are so easily proven wrong, and so persistent in repeating your nonsense, that makes me an asshole?

Let me repeat the two basic questions you obviously would prefer to continue dodging:

 

You've asserted that China -is- getting richer faster, although your statement

is rather silly. They are not starting from anywhere near the level of industrialization that the US had in 1776 (or 1790 or whatever you prefer). Not only have they simply had our old factories moved there, they already had a high level of development.... no bullet trains but plenty of railroads, steel works, etc etc.

I don't disagree that China is getting richer faster, however. They probably are.

And they have a much more centralized finance system, and much more centralized and authoritarian control over business. Does that strengthen your argument that "greater economic freedom" leads to greater, faster, wealth creation?

-DSK

China has tried it both ways.  Without some capitalism, they had famine and death. They instituted some measure of economic freedom, and now they are getting rich.  If they institute more economic freedom, they will develop faster.  China has access to our technology, so they have the ability to develop faster than we did.  Is that really so hard to understand? 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jzk said:

China has tried it both ways.  Without some capitalism, they had famine and death. They instituted some measure of economic freedom, and now they are getting rich.  If they institute more economic freedom, they will develop faster.  China has access to our technology, so they have the ability to develop faster than we did.  Is that really so hard to understand? 

But we're already free-er

By your rules, we should be getting richer faster.

Is that really so hard to understand?

Now, about that bank homework

Non-government owned banks

Listed company held by public in majority

Privately owned bank

 

How much of China's working capital is issued by these banks, as opposed the that issued by all the others? How many are spin-offs from the central bank? How many are basically used to smokescreen state-supported arbitrage operations? If you do even a slight amount of digging, you rapidly find the answers...... I have owned stock in some international banks myself and have the disgusting habit of reading quarterly reports.

At least you're looking at some details now, that's good.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Steam Flyer said:

But we're already free-er

By your rules, we should be getting richer faster.

Is that really so hard to understand?

Now, about that bank homework

Non-government owned banks

Listed company held by public in majority

Privately owned bank

 

How much of China's working capital is issued by these banks, as opposed the that issued by all the others? How many are spin-offs from the central bank? How many are basically used to smokescreen state-supported arbitrage operations? If you do even a slight amount of digging, you rapidly find the answers...... I have owned stock in some international banks myself and have the disgusting habit of reading quarterly reports.

At least you're looking at some details now, that's good.

-DSK

So is the number of banks in China greater than 1 or not? 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jzk said:

If they institute more economic freedom, they will develop faster.  China has access to our technology, so they have the ability to develop faster than we did.  Is that really so hard to understand? 

Not really, not all forms of economic freedom. Property rights.

If they had our system, they'd have our problems building the trains that started this thread. An authoritarian government can do some things cheaper and easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Not really, not all forms of economic freedom. Property rights.

If they had our system, they'd have our problems building the trains that started this thread. An authoritarian government can do some things cheaper and easier.

I don't know exactly how property ownership works on China, but I do know many Chinese people that have bought real estate and have done well.  

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to borrow a phrase, it's not that JZK is stupid. It's just that he knows so much that isn't true.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Raz'r said:

to borrow a phrase, it's not that JZK is stupid. It's just that he knows so much that isn't true.

Care to actually cite some evidence? 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jzk said:

Care to actually cite some evidence? 

Just in the last thread of JZK Assertions:
China's economy is capitalist

Hong Kong is China

Capital in China comes from private ownership

Hong Kong Per-Capita GDP > the the US per-capita GDP

 

do we need to go on?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Just in the last thread of JZK Assertions:
China's economy is capitalist

Hong Kong is China

Capital in China comes from private ownership

Hong Kong Per-Capita GDP > the the US per-capita GDP

 

do we need to go on?

 

Don't you have access to Google from your trailer park either?  How embarrassing for you. 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hong Kong ahead of the US in GDP per capita:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

On July 1, 1997, sovereignty of Hong Kong was transferred from the UK to China.

I never said China was a "capitalist" country.  It has implemented elements of capitalism which are causing it to become rich.  Even the US isn't a capitalist country.  It is a mixed economy.  

I never said capital in China comes from private ownership. 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

China = 15,000 miles of High Speed Train/

USA = 0 (zero)

Trick question, which one is the more advanced economy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jzk said:
3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

to borrow a phrase, it's not that JZK is stupid. It's just that he knows so much that isn't true.

Care to actually cite some evidence? 

Umm, how about because you think that "China has more than one bank" that means they can't all be tightly controlled by -the- central, national, bank (ie the gov't)?

How about the way you get all mad when you say "economic freedom leads to the most wealth created the fastest" then point to China which has one of the least free semi-capitalist systems in the world, and the rest of us point out how you're contradicting yourself?

Knowledge has to spring from admitting you don't know the answer. Being utterly confident that you know -THE- answer is a sure path to ignorant zealotry.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Umm, how about because you think that "China has more than one bank" that means they can't all be tightly controlled by -the- central, national, bank (ie the gov't)?

How about the way you get all mad when you say "economic freedom leads to the most wealth created the fastest" then point to China which has one of the least free semi-capitalist systems in the world, and the rest of us point out how you're contradicting yourself?

Knowledge has to spring from admitting you don't know the answer. Being utterly confident that you know -THE- answer is a sure path to ignorant zealotry.

-DSK

Why do you just make shit up and attribute it to me?  China is very much controlled by its authoritarian oppressive central government.  Stop lying and making shit up.

Before China instituted a little bit of freedom, it was dirt poor.  In the 1970s, it began instituting a bit of market reforms, and now it is pulling itself out of poverty.  Honk Kong had a much more economically free system, and it is much richer than China per capita.

This concept is really not that hard to understand.  There is no contradiction.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, random said:

China = 15,000 miles of High Speed Train/

USA = 0 (zero)

Trick question, which one is the more advanced economy?

I'd say the one with the system of property rights that prevents high speed rail is the preferable one, despite its problems.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I'd say the one with the system of property rights that prevents high speed rail is the preferable one, despite its problems.

 

I have not met a single Chinese person that would argue that the Chinese economy is "more advanced" than the US.  But they sure do have that as a goal.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, random said:

China = 15,000 miles of High Speed Train/

USA = 0 (zero)

Trick question, which one is the more advanced economy?

I must of missed the "high speed rail" requirement in order to have an "advanced economy"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I'd say the one with the system of property rights that prevents high speed rail is the preferable one, despite its problems.

 

Yep, I thought you'd say that again.

The system of "I don't give a fuck about my country unless it makes a buck for me".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bpm57 said:

I must of missed the "high speed rail" requirement in order to have an "advanced economy"

You mean that you don't see MagLev trains as advanced tech?

Picture-4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

China has Mag Lev trains in use and America has crumbling bridges.

Yeah - that's pretty much the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

China has Mag Lev trains in use and America has crumbling bridges.

Yeah - that's pretty much the same thing.

But we have the best crumbling bridges. Everyone says so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jzk said:
5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey sunshine, time to wake up..... the only bank in China is owned by the gov't. They have a bunch of different branches so I can see why you're confused

-DSK

Here is a list of some of the banks in China, "sunshine."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_China

Then you said

1 hour ago, jzk said:

Why do you just make shit up and attribute it to me?  China is very much controlled by its authoritarian oppressive central government.  Stop lying and making shit up.

Before China instituted a little bit of freedom, it was dirt poor.  In the 1970s, it began instituting a bit of market reforms, and now it is pulling itself out of poverty.  Honk Kong had a much more economically free system, and it is much richer than China per capita.

This concept is really not that hard to understand.  There is no contradiction.

So, let's see.... you said more economic freedom means more wealth, yet America's economy is free-er than China's and is (now that China controls Hong Kong, but only has for a few years) arguably free-er than Hong Kong's.

Why is the USA not creating fantastic wealth with it's economic freedom? And China brought in a little capitalism but has an oppressive central gov't (which controls the banks) and then you say there's lots of individual banks in China.......

No contradiction there, no sir.

Better start ranting a lot louder about how I'm a liar......

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Then you said

So, let's see.... you said more economic freedom means more wealth, yet America's economy is free-er than China's and is (now that China controls Hong Kong, but only has for a few years) arguably free-er than Hong Kong's.

Why is the USA not creating fantastic wealth with it's economic freedom? And China brought in a little capitalism but has an oppressive central gov't (which controls the banks) and then you say there's lots of individual banks in China.......

No contradiction there, no sir.

Better start ranting a lot louder about how I'm a liar......

-DSK

The US is much wealthier than China per capita and has created much more wealth per capita.  China is creating wealth faster because it is starting at the bottom.  Really not a hard concept to understand.  China has a very long way to go.

You said that China's government controls the banks.  And you said it had only one bank.  I merely sent you the list of banks that it really has.  Where is the contradiction?  Please tell us.  Do you know what a contradiction is?

Strange how you seem to be trying to change your error about how many banks there are and attribute some kind of contradiction to me.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, jzk said:

...   ...    ...

You said that China's government controls the banks.  And you said it had only one bank.  I merely sent you the list of banks that it really has.  Where is the contradiction?  Please tell us.  Do you know what a contradiction is?

Strange how you seem to be trying to change your error about how many banks there are and attribute some kind of contradiction to me.

 

No, that's not correct. Here's what I really said

5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey sunshine, time to wake up..... the only bank in China is owned by the gov't. They have a bunch of different branches so I can see why you're confused

 

You attempted to prove that there are private banks in China (and there are a few acting there but they are still tightly controlled by the central gov't, which I don't recall being mentioned in Adam Smith) and avoided the question about HOW MUCH OF CHINA's MARKET CAP IS RUNG UP BY PRIVATE BANKS

Take your time, think it over.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

No, that's not correct. Here's what I really said

 

You attempted to prove that there are private banks in China (and there are a few acting there but they are still tightly controlled by the central gov't, which I don't recall being mentioned in Adam Smith) and avoided the question about HOW MUCH OF CHINA's MARKET CAP IS RUNG UP BY PRIVATE BANKS

Take your time, think it over.

-DSK

Now you are lying again.  When did I try to prove that there are private banks in China?  

I merely linked to a list of banks in China to show that there are more than one.  That is it.  

 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jzk said:

Now you are lying again.  When did I try to prove that there are private banks in China?  

I merely linked to a list of banks in China to show that there are more than one.  That is it.  

 

Nice backpedal.

Never admit you're talking nonsense, just call the other guy a liar.... when he has directly quoted you

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nice backpedal.

Never admit you're talking nonsense, just call the other guy a liar.... when he has directly quoted you

-DSK

Well post the quote then.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, badlatitude said:

32623034_1268311846637114_45620063851176

Says it all really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, jzk said:

I don't know exactly how property ownership works on China, but I do know many Chinese people that have bought real estate and have done well.  

 

On 5/16/2018 at 10:15 PM, jzk said:

Yes you clown.  When you buy shit from China, most likely it is a privately owned company.   Sure there are plenty of state owned companies, but they don't trade much with the rest of the word, as your article states.  No one would argue that China is "pure" capitalist or anywhere near it.  Just that they have used capitalism to become rich.  

 

On 5/16/2018 at 10:44 PM, jzk said:

Even the US is not a "capitalist" country.  It is a mixed economy.  China has allowed just a little bit of capitalism, and it is making them rich.

Go on Alibaba.com and look at all of the companies that want to sell you shit.  You think they are owned by the Chinese government?

 

14 hours ago, jzk said:

Comparing it how?  If 70 years ago, Hong Kong was a poor fishing village, and it opened itself up to almost 100% capitalism, and became as rich as you, it is certainly worth mentioning.  And with no real natural resources.  

Remember that size thing the next time the Scandinavian countries get cited as model societies.

Umm, 70 years ago Hong Kong was not a poor fishing village. But carry on, carry on......

11 hours ago, jzk said:

If you think I am trying to say that China is the pinnacle example of pure capitalism, I am not.  But they are using some amount of capitalism to get rich.  Maybe even 50% ish.  But that is not important.  Most Chinese businesses are just self employed people that have no "seed money."  They have private ownership and are "trading" on the global marketplace.  That is making them rich.

 

9 hours ago, jzk said:

Hong Kong ahead of the US in GDP per capita:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

On July 1, 1997, sovereignty of Hong Kong was transferred from the UK to China.

I never said China was a "capitalist" country.  It has implemented elements of capitalism which are causing it to become rich.  Even the US isn't a capitalist country.  It is a mixed economy.  

I never said capital in China comes from private ownership. 

Looks like somebody can't remember what they said from one minute to the next..... is China capitalist? Are Chinese banks effectively a branch of the gov't? Is China more or less capitalist than the US? Is Hong Kong the same thing as China?

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites