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Anarchy is Hate Speech

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7 minutes ago, Tempest said:

 natural laws  

....surwival of the fattest? 

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5 hours ago, Tempest said:

No, anarchy involves laws but they are natural laws and not government bullshit statute laws.  

Point taken

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And we all know how well voluntary adherence to laws works.

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12 hours ago, Tempest said:

No, anarchy involves laws but they are natural laws and not government bullshit statute laws.  

And these natural laws are they like the law of gravity (e.g., Don't toss rocks off freeway bridges) or are they of the "do unto others..." nature.  (e.g.  Don't throw dog poop down your neighbor's well).

I'm sure there are grand treatises on the subject written by 18th Century that make it all perfectly clear and rational.  But in practice as far as I can tell, they have only really worked (for short periods of time) for southern Queens real estate development and Russian industrialists.

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

But in practice as far as I can tell, they have only really worked (for short periods of time) for southern Queens real estate development and Russian industrialists.

What do you no aboye NY realle estate markette?  Juste currinouse.                                    :)

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14 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

What do you no aboye NY realle estate markette?  Juste currinouse.                                    :)

Grew up there, studied architecture there, designed buildings there, own a little bit of stuff, know a few people who designed big towers with way too much gold pasted on them and didn't get paid.  But...me? Manhattan only. 

Southern Queens and South Brooklyn is way too scary for the likes of me.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Grew up there, studied architecture there, designed buildings there, own a little bit of stuff, know a few people who designed big towers with way too much gold pasted on them and didn't get paid.  But...me? Manhattan only. 

Southern Queens and South Brooklyn is way too scary for the likes of me. 

OK, mucho respectto, life canbe scarrey.                 :)

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21 hours ago, SeaGul said:

....surwival of the fattest? 

937097.jpg

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On 5/23/2018 at 8:29 AM, SloopJonB said:

And we all know how well voluntary adherence to laws works.

All adherence to law is voluntary; the only thing that changes is the method of applying the punishment for disobeying those laws.  People are blinded by the system which governs their lives and have an impossibly difficult time imagining things working any differently.  Just because you fully believe that the system is as good as it could ever be doesn't mean there isn't a better way to do things.  That said, there is only a very small portion of the population willing or capable of thinking bigger so I imagine we will eternally push around this Sisyphus rock of a legal/political system... hence my assertion that this conversation is a waste of time.

On 5/23/2018 at 12:30 PM, Left Shift said:

And these natural laws are they like the law of gravity (e.g., Don't toss rocks off freeway bridges) or are they of the "do unto others..." nature.  (e.g.  Don't throw dog poop down your neighbor's well).

I'm sure there are grand treatises on the subject written by 18th Century that make it all perfectly clear and rational.  But in practice as far as I can tell, they have only really worked (for short periods of time) for southern Queens real estate development and Russian industrialists.

Technically both.  The only difference being that some are tangible (physical laws) and some are intangible (social laws).  Nobody can stop a rock from falling so man has no control over the physical side of natural laws.  The social laws are only really applicable when living in and around other people.  You can't steal from people if there are no people around to steal from.  You can't kill or assault anyone if there is no one around to kill or assault.

The punishments for violating the social side of the natural laws are reparations, physical harm, banishment, confinement or death.  You can find examples of all of those punishments in all cultures throughout history.

Natural laws are extremely easy to establish and vet with basic philosophy.  The easiest being "I won't kill you because I don't want to be killed."  Not killing one another benefits everyone.  Economic and social progress is impossible when everyone is killing one another.  "I won't steal from you because I don't want to be stolen from".  Same principal.  There are lots of videos on the internet that cover the philosophical proofs for these concepts so I won't blather on with a half cocked explanation.

The point I was making is that the natural laws are upheld by every civilized government on earth.  They didn't invent them, they just recognize and, to an extent, protect them.  However, what governments love to do is then pile on a whole load of bullshit, statute laws intended to rob you blind for the economic benefit of the state.  Ever got a fine for j-walking?  Not wearing a helmet?  Not wearing a seatbelt?  Walking your dog without a leash?  Collecting rain water without a permit?  Building a shed without a permit?  There are entire LIBRARIES FULL of nothing but books of laws.   So many laws you couldn't memorize every one of them if you had 3 lifetimes.  So many laws that it's been estimated that the average American breaks 3 laws a day without even knowing it.  So many laws that they figure America houses 25% of the WORLD'S prisoners.  And to top it all off... creation of the laws, enforcement of the laws and punishment for breaking those laws are financially incentivized by lawyers, judges and private prison systems.

The whole thing is fucking insane.  To anyone who says they can't imagine a better system I say you're not trying hard enough.

https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man

 

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2 hours ago, Tempest said:

All adherence to law is voluntary; the only thing that changes is the method of applying the punishment for disobeying those laws.  People are blinded by the system which governs their lives and have an impossibly difficult time imagining things working any differently.  Just because you fully believe that the system is as good as it could ever be doesn't mean there isn't a better way to do things.  That said, there is only a very small portion of the population willing or capable of thinking bigger so I imagine we will eternally push around this Sisyphus rock of a legal/political system... hence my assertion that this conversation is a waste of time.

Technically both.  The only difference being that some are tangible (physical laws) and some are intangible (social laws).  Nobody can stop a rock from falling so man has no control over the physical side of natural laws.  The social laws are only really applicable when living in and around other people.  You can't steal from people if there are no people around to steal from.  You can't kill or assault anyone if there is no one around to kill or assault.

The punishments for violating the social side of the natural laws are reparations, physical harm, banishment, confinement or death.  You can find examples of all of those punishments in all cultures throughout history.

Natural laws are extremely easy to establish and vet with basic philosophy.  The easiest being "I won't kill you because I don't want to be killed."  Not killing one another benefits everyone.  Economic and social progress is impossible when everyone is killing one another.  "I won't steal from you because I don't want to be stolen from".  Same principal.  There are lots of videos on the internet that cover the philosophical proofs for these concepts so I won't blather on with a half cocked explanation.

The point I was making is that the natural laws are upheld by every civilized government on earth.  They didn't invent them, they just recognize and, to an extent, protect them.  However, what governments love to do is then pile on a whole load of bullshit, statute laws intended to rob you blind for the economic benefit of the state.  Ever got a fine for j-walking?  Not wearing a helmet?  Not wearing a seatbelt?  Walking your dog without a leash?  Collecting rain water without a permit?  Building a shed without a permit?  There are entire LIBRARIES FULL of nothing but books of laws.   So many laws you couldn't memorize every one of them if you had 3 lifetimes.  So many laws that it's been estimated that the average American breaks 3 laws a day without even knowing it.  So many laws that they figure America houses 25% of the WORLD'S prisoners.  And to top it all off... creation of the laws, enforcement of the laws and punishment for breaking those laws are financially incentivized by lawyers, judges and private prison systems.

The whole thing is fucking insane.  To anyone who says they can't imagine a better system I say you're not trying hard enough.

https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man

 

The trouble with *that* is a lot of those 'stupid' laws are a reflection of the fact that there are a lot of stupid people out there who don't think about anyone else.

Dogs on leashes being a particular example since you mention it. I happen to not want my wildlife harassed by your dog. If you have a well-trained dog who doesn't chase wildlife, fine. But if it does, my recourse is to shoot it. Then the dog owner pisses & moans about people shooting dogs.

Factual case not far from where I live, except the dog was chasing domestic sheep. The owner was warned but denied the dog would ever do such a thing. Dog got shot & photographs taken in situ. Dog owner complained to cops, got told basically to fuck off because the law said the dog had to be kept securely on the owner's property.

So as I said most of those petty & annoying laws are due to stupid people having no regard for their fellows.

Personally I just quietly ignore most of them and hope I don't get caught.....

FKT

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For all the Pissin' an' moanin on this thread, I forgot the humourous, sarcastic fonts.

Wish some ed/mod could move it to PA so it disappears up its own backside.

Not even a single like either!:rolleyes:

 

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There you go - now you can quit pissin' an' moanin

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The trouble with *that* is a lot of those 'stupid' laws are a reflection of the fact that there are a lot of stupid people out there who don't think about anyone else.

Dogs on leashes being a particular example since you mention it. I happen to not want my wildlife harassed by your dog. If you have a well-trained dog who doesn't chase wildlife, fine. But if it does, my recourse is to shoot it. Then the dog owner pisses & moans about people shooting dogs.

Factual case not far from where I live, except the dog was chasing domestic sheep. The owner was warned but denied the dog would ever do such a thing. Dog got shot & photographs taken in situ. Dog owner complained to cops, got told basically to fuck off because the law said the dog had to be kept securely on the owner's property.

So as I said most of those petty & annoying laws are due to stupid people having no regard for their fellows.

Personally I just quietly ignore most of them and hope I don't get caught.....

FKT

Can't say I disagree and your final sentiment is spot on.

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