southerncross

Seven arrested during bar fracas at Volvo Ocean Race stopover at Rhode Island

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1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

What is the point of having a rule if you are never going to use it and no one knows where the bar is set? Sorry about the pun.

Unknown anonymous sailors in drunken altercations with police is one thing.. But world reknown sailors presumably wearing official team/VOR gear in the spotlight of the world media is another? 

 

In common law jurisprudence, there's such a thing as vague criminal law being unenforceable because the vagueness breaches the rights of the accused. 

 

The folks that got arrested pleased no contest, no injuries, no real victims, paid a penalty. What is the 69 for?

I saw 69 as being about conduct on the boat. For example? If a Skipper has a habit of VHFing profanities to harass a competitor. Calling racial or sexist slurs attacking a particular crew member or boat. 

If off boat conduct is in play. How about Ben Ainsley? Dispute for taking big money? Charles for attacking OBR! Do we bring 69 on Turner for leaving an org before it's event?

What is the standard off the boat?

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So you agree with me,  rule 69 is pointless, especially as there are no precedents. In which case, no rules/law should ever exist or come into being....

What do you do about about the bad publicity and bringing the sport into disrepute and setting a bad example for young sailors then?

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"that? Don't do that. You might not be so lucky"

Sailing is hardly life. If sailing rules are needed to keep ppl on the right path, then why bother. It's already over. 

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I totally agree, it is already over.....

The world is full of rules, laws and regulations which some people can ignore and others get canned for it..

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

I saw 69 as being about conduct on the boat. 

The wording of the rule was changed specifically or badly if it was unintentional,  to capture bad conduct both on and off the boat that is exposed to third parties.

Unless there is a third party complaint to support the (subjective) "disrepute" hurdle and evidence that can be argued by both sides i.e. recording of the incident exists (in the absence a bunch of reliable tetotalling Amish people who just happened to be passing and are willing to be witnesses to a hearing) clearly showing the actions of each individual, a 69er is not going to fly.

Anyone who thinks this is 69er territory should do the world a favour and walk in front of a bus.

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So that means that policemen and the bar staff are totally unreliable witnesses? Appearing before the judiciary is not prima facie? Fines not proof? Worldwide (bad) publicity non existent?

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11 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

So that means that policemen and the bar staff are totally unreliable witnesses? Appearing before the judiciary is not prima facie? Fines not proof? Worldwide publicity non existent?

There has to be a complaint and witnesses have to be willing, they can't be forced. Evidence of disrepute is the bar, not fines etc for something else. As for witnesses, how long would a bar owner or staff member be welcome in Newport if they were a witness supporting a bullshit complaint like this?

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The worldwide (bad) publicity and the fines/donations should be sufficiently self evident enough.....

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

The worldwide (bad) publicity and the fines/donations should be sufficiently self evident enough.....

Answered already. Why don't you lodge a complaint then and get the ball rolling instead of blowing it out of your arse. You can do that email to the RO in 30 seconds and sit back. They don't even need you any further after that.

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Jeez, doesn't anyone have anything better to do than piss for a couple of days over a minor incident in a bar? Seems like it was handled and resolved appropriately, discussion here of race is completely unnecessary, and Rule 69s ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, despacio avenue said:

and Rule 69s ridiculous.

Absolutely...unfortunately they don't they have the Electric Chair and there is no string in Newport..them people of colour learnt long ago the key to survival was stealing that.

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50 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Absolutely...unfortunately they don't they have the Electric Chair and there is no string in Newport..them people of colour learnt long ago the key to survival was stealing that.

There’s a couple of assholes on this forum.

then there’s you.

the level of your selfreightousness knows no limits.

i actually feel sorry for you, a little man locked inside a keyboard.

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Not in the race thread kiddies, take it elsewhere.

We really do need a sarcasm font in here sometimes, people go off over the stupidest things.

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48 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Not in the race thread kiddies, take it elsewhere.......

This isn’t the race thread.....  would you like me to post a link for you?..... Now that is sarcasm.

Or how about: the clue is in the thread title?

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1 hour ago, paps49 said:

Not in the race thread kiddies, take it elsewhere.

We really do need a sarcasm font in here sometimes, people go off over the stupidest things.

we do. type in pink . and ignore captain 69'r .

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1 hour ago, sunseeker said:

i actually feel sorry for you, a little man locked inside a keyboard.

Wow with your level of moral indignation I would expect something more pique and original than that zinger. 

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46 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

This isn’t the race thread.....  would you like me to post a link for you?..... Now that is sarcasm.

Or how about: the clue is in the thread title?

My sincere apologies, I forgot which place I'm in, happens sometimes at my age.

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1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

Or how about: the clue is in the thread title?

Well actually that is Southern's work and being a non- reflective ex-policeman, he was itching to write "Seven white honkys arrested.." but must have thought better of it.

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6 hours ago, paps49 said:

My sincere apologies, I forgot which place I'm in, happens sometimes at my age.

No need to apologise ......At my age, I regularly forget much more than that....

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4 hours ago, paps49 said:

You forgot something Jack.

No I didn't ..Southern is a person of colour, like he is so black he wouldn't disappear on a dark night.

We both go to Nazi swap meets together where he covers himself with a white sheet and pretends to be the only surviving "Grand Dragon" Klu Klux Klan member from the Tennessee chapter.

They buy us drinks, we interfere with their tall blonde girlfriends who think Germany is some sort of STD, the trade off is we agree Pakistanis should not be allowed to drive cabs but that is far better than finding out your sister is shagging a Mexican pool boy ....and then we both disappear into the night.

I know a shallow existence, but it is more exciting than the VOR in its current form. If Volvo fuck off Southern will come out and get rid of the sheet is my guess.

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33 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
4 hours ago, paps49 said:

 

No I didn't ..Southern is a person of colour, like he is so black he wouldn't disappear on a dark night

Far from the sad truth actually.  I’m as white as they come.  Plantation owners from my fathers side.  Benevolent ones if you can believe that.  There’s a book about them and a collection of children’s stories told by their Mammy that Disney passed on.  Not quite the Brare Rabbit type I’m guessing.  My kids are rightly mixed though; two kids Apache and another son French Caribbean.  My ancestors tossing in their graves.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Far from the sad truth actually.  I’m as white as they come. Plantation owners from my fathers side...

 ..two kids Apache and another son French Caribbean.

Yeah sure Uncle T. I'm shattered. You told me you had never been OS let alone to India or even further south than that gay bar in Key West. Fuckin liar.

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FWIW Newport cops can be the friendliest, most casual people around...if you're a local and used to sit at the Rogers lunch table with them.

On the other hand there is very little tolerance for aggressive drunk brown baggers from Mass or la-de-da's from anywhere.

All in all, I like this result.

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9 hours ago, Parma said:

FWIW Newport cops can be the friendliest, most casual people around...if you're a local and used to sit at the Rogers lunch table with them.

On the other hand there is very little tolerance for aggressive drunk brown baggers from Mass or la-de-da's from anywhere.

All in all, I like this result.

In other words, the cops are fine with pro sailors getting in their face because they are the talent that brings in tourist dollars. So, basically bribable. See also : judges. 

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13 hours ago, sunseeker said:

In other words, the cops are fine with pro sailors getting in their face because they are the talent that brings in tourist dollars. So, basically bribable. See also : judges. 

No, that's not what I said at all.

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On 5/18/2018 at 5:41 PM, random said:

What if he did?

His comments sound reasonable to me, but to a racist they would probably be offensive.

Race had nothing to do with it, and please don't imply that I'm a racist.  AJ Oliver played the race card for no reason other than to stir up some sort of political discussion in this thread about the Volvo Ocean Race.  I'm also not offended by his comments, I'm annoyed by his inability to stay on topic.  It's ok if you have nothing to add to the conversation, but don't try to change the topic.

Those of us who spend time in Newport and the surrounding area know exactly how the police work up there, we understand that Rhode Island is not just the Ice Cream cones and t-shirt shops on Thames street, and if you stop and look around you'll notice that the population of RI is increasingly diverse.

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1 hour ago, RumLine said:

 Rhode Island is not just the Ice Cream cones and t-shirt shops on Thames street, .

Wait......what??

Newport has a subculture unlike anywhere else.

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1 minute ago, Parma said:

Wait......what??

Newport has a subculture unlike anywhere else.

A "subculture?" What, you mean sailing?
 

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Just now, jarcher said:

A "subculture?" What, you mean sailing?
 

No it's more like people go to Newport and figure it's like Vegas and they can do anything they want....that's gotta be frustrating for the coppers.

The subculture (at least that i see) are the genuinely native Newporters who don't embrace the Vegas concept, who know what Newport used to be and what the understanding was "before". They have preserved that understanding amongst themselves and it is still their town.

And Thank God they have - Newport would not be what it is without them. 

The Volvo racers? Yeah great, they bring in the dollars, but they come and go while the cops, judges, the golfing or sailing buddies do what they need to to preserve their town.against all comers.

I like the result.

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Speaking of Vegas, the new Newport Grand casino was announced recently. Look out for it in about two years. So far they are being a little coy about what forms of gaming will be on offer.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why does Newport need cops...

Fall River, Swansea & Connecticut

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On 5/19/2018 at 7:41 AM, random said:

 

His comments sound reasonable to me, but to a racist they would probably be offensive.

His comments would sound reasonable to you, but to a normal person they would probobly be a reason for a good belly laugh. 

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11 hours ago, Parma said:

The subculture (at least that i see) are the genuinely native Newporters who don't embrace the Vegas concept, who know what Newport used to be and what the understanding was "before". They have preserved that understanding amongst themselves and it is still their town.

.. better not look too far back into those genuine Newporter's , though.

Best to limit it to the last 150 years or so... much more palatable.

 

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23 hours ago, Parma said:

Fall River, Swansea & Connecticut

NY

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On 5/21/2018 at 9:13 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Why does Newport need cops...

Middletown.

 

 

Duh.

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On 5/18/2018 at 6:35 PM, Miffy said:

 

In common law jurisprudence, there's such a thing as vague criminal law being unenforceable because the vagueness breaches the rights of the accused. 

 

The folks that got arrested pleased no contest, no injuries, no real victims, paid a penalty. What is the 69 for?

I saw 69 as being about conduct on the boat. For example? If a Skipper has a habit of VHFing profanities to harass a competitor. Calling racial or sexist slurs attacking a particular crew member or boat. 

If off boat conduct is in play. How about Ben Ainsley? Dispute for taking big money? Charles for attacking OBR! Do we bring 69 on Turner for leaving an org before it's event?

What is the standard off the boat?

The standard off the boat will have to be determined through the process of cases being brought and working their way through the appeals process. As I review the documents from this incident, I see its very clear that the alleged conduct meets the definition of "misconduct" in the rule. There is substantial evidence of this misconduct. It's inconceivable that the VOR protest committee, whomever they are, is not aware of this incident. The rule, therefore, requires that they actively make a decision about whether to hold a hearing. As I read the rule, they could simply meet and decide not to have a hearing, which would make a joke of R69 and, frankly, the entire concept of people being expected to follow the rules and enforce them ourselves. 

I'm not sure how I feel about the broadness of this rule as written, but the rule exists and as such should not be ignored. Maybe it should be changed, but if it exists it should be followed. The VOR protest committee has to make a decision.

 

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